WARNING Foolish Virgins: Legalists and The Unrepentant

Only to be REMINDED to return to the ways of the parents/ The Creator.

i'm no religitard but i think he taught more than that

SIN=Transgression of the Torah.

I understand what you are trying to say. We can not earn salvation but Jesus also said that if you love Me, you will keep My commandments. He also told us that He didn't come to do away with the laws but to fulfill them. Don't get confused with man made laws and the thousands of laws made by the Jewish leaders. But the Creator who made the commandments to Moses is the same Creator who sent His Son for our sins and the commandments did not disappear!

The Dead Sea Scrolls and the “Works of the Law"

(By Eddie Chumney, Hebraic Heritage Ministries)

Millions of people have wondered what the expression, "works of the law" means as used by the apostle Paul. What are they?

Are "works of law" the Ten Commandments?

Are they the "Law of Moses"?

Or something else?

Paul said"a man is not justified by the works of the law," and that "by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified" (Gal.2:16).What did he mean?What is the Christian's relationship to "works of the law"?

William F Dankenbring: In the book of Galatians, the apostle Paul makes it plain that a true Christian is not "justified" by "works of the law," or made righteous in God's sight by them.Paul declared, "He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the WORKS OF THE LAW, or by the hearing of faith?"(Gal.3:5).

Paul went on, "For as many as are of the works of the law are under the CURSE:for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them" (Gal.3:10).What are these "works of the law"?

In his translation, Ferrar Fenton refers to them as "rituals of the law."Most Christians, Protestants and others, think they refer to the "deeds" of the law of Moses -- the entire Law of God given to Israel at Mount Sinai -- including the Ten Commandments, statutes, judgments, and Temple rituals and ceremonies of the Law.

But is this assumption true?

The title of an obscure Dead Sea Scroll is MMT, which stands for Miqsat Ma'ase Ha-Torah.This phrase was originally translated "Some of the Precepts of the Torah," by Dead Sea Scholars Strugnell and Qimron.However, the word miqsat does not just mean "some."The same word is used in Genesis 47:2 where Joseph presents five of his brothers before Pharaoh -- where the word could be translated as most important, select, or choice brothers.


More importantly, however, is the rest of the phrase -- ma-ase ha-Torah.Strugnell and Qimron translated this as "precepts of Torah."However, the most common GREEK word for ma-ase is ergon -- which in the New Testament is usually translated "works." The Hebrew word Torah is usuallytranslated as nomos, which in the New Testament is generally translated "law."Thus the expression ma-ase ha-Torah then simply means "works of the law."This would be a very excellent translation.The Septuagint version of the Old Testament leaves no doubt -- it translated the Hebrew expression ma-ase ha-Torah by the Greek ergon nomou.This Greek expression is commonly translated in the New Testament as "works of the law."This expression is found in Romans 3:20,28, and Galatians 2:16, and 3:2,5, and 10.


Interestingly, when the British Bible Society translated the New Testament into modern Hebrew in 1976, when the text of the MMT Dead Sea Scroll was known only to a few scholars, they translated the Greek ergon nomou (works of the law) as ma-ase ha-Torah.Says Martin Abegg, author of an article entitled "Paul, 'Works of the Law' and MMT," in the November-December 1994 Biblical Archaeological Review:


"In short, ma-ase ha-torah is equivalent to what we know in English from Paul's letters as 'works of the law.' This Dead Sea scroll and Paul use the very same phrase. The connection is emphasized by the fact that this phrase appears nowhere in rabbinic literature of the first and second centuries A.D. -- only in Paul and in MMT. "The works of the law that the Qumran text refers to are obviously typified by the 20 or so religious precepts (halakah) detailed in the body of the text. For the first time we can really understand what Paul is writing about.Here is a document detailing works of the law"(p.53, BAR, 11-12/94 issue).


Finally, then we can put to rest the question, just what are the "works of the law" that Paul wrote about! Finally, an argument which has raged for centuries, and still rages today, can be settled by clear evidence from the first century! Let's take a look at this mysterious document MMT, and see what it is all about.


THE DEAD SEA SCROLL MMT

The MMT scroll records the remains of nearly two dozen legal issues.Perhaps another dozen issues perished.The scroll calls attention to the subject of boundaries between what was to be considered pure and impure.The phrase rohorat haquodesh, "purity of the holy," sums up the contents of the scroll and its purpose.Says Abegg, this means, "Do not allow the holy to be profaned by what is impure."The issues discussed, says Abegg, were:


"The issues include bringing Gentile corn into the Temple, the presentation of Gentile offerings, and the cooking of sacrificial meat in unfit (impure) vessels.Other rulings concern cleansing of lepers, admitting the blind and the deaf into the Temple; and permitting intermarriage with Ammonite and Moabite converts, long forbidden to enter the congregation of Israel (Deuteronomy 23:3).Other issues involve the transmission of impurity by a flow of water (musaq), the intermixture of wool and linen (sha-atnez) and perhaps the climax of the discussion: the intermarriage of priests with the common people.


"Most of the rulings espoused by the author of MMT are based directly upon Biblical law (for example, the prohibition against plowing with unlike animals in Deuteronomy 22:10).A few others are interpretations or amplifications of Mosaic prescriptions (for example, bans on Gentile offerings and dogs in the Temple).The list clearly reflects a conservative reaction against a relaxation of Torah precepts" (ibid., p.53-54).


Notice!These "rulings" or "works of the law" included "INTERPRETATIONS OR AMPLIFICATIONS OF

MOSAIC PRESCRIPTIONS."


The Qumran sect spurned the "rabbinic extensions called Talmud, which effectively built a fence around the Torah, successive layers of which have become codified in the rabbinic works of the Mishnah and the two Talmuds.The Qumranites were the 'Bible only' group of their day" (page54).


Notice again!The "RABBINIC EXTENSIONS" reflected in the Talmud, that corpus of Jewish religious and rabbinic literature accumulated over the centuries, known as the Babylonian and Jerusalem Talmuds, was spurned by the writers of the MMT Dead Sea Scroll.They developed their own interpretations, expansions, and halakah.But both came under the over-all description of "works of the law" -- and included various rabbinic interpretations, amplifications, and extensions of the Law of Moses to Jewish life during the first century.


The expression miqsat ma-ase ha-torah -- "pertinent works of the law" -- nowhere appears in rabbinic literature. However, clearly the Qumranites, like the apostle Paul, were against these rabbinic "works of the law," though from a different point of view.They were espousing their own version of the "works of the law."


Paul, very clearly, condemns in no uncertain terms these "works of the law" in both Romans and Galatians!


Writes Abegg:

"Looking at Galatians and Romans in the light of MMT, it seems clear that Paul, using the same terminol-ogy, is rebutting the theology of documents such as MMT.I do not mean to suggest that Paul knew of MMT or of the zealous members of the Qumran community, but simply that Paul was reacting to the kind of theology espoused by MMT, perhaps even by some Christian converts who were committed to the kind of thinking reflecting in MMT."


What does this all mean?Clearly, even in Paul's day, the Jewish scribes and Pharisees were building "fences" around the law of God, and making it into a burden -- a "yoke of bondage" (Gal.5:1).Paul warned of "false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into BONDAGE" (Gal.2:4).He warned the Galatians that we are not justified before God by "works of law" (Gal.2:16).


Paul was upset, disturbed, about the reports he had received concerning them.He wrote, "O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?"(Gal.3:1).He asked them, "This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of law, or by the hearing of faith?Are ye so foolish?Having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?"(Gal.3:2-3).


Paul urged the Galatians not to become entangled in the "works of the law" -- the deeds and decisions and rulings of rabbinic Judaism or its offshoots.He wrote, "Stand fast therefore in the LIBERTY wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage"(Gal.5:1).


Writes Martin Abegg in Biblical Archaeology Review:

"Some scholars have suggested that Paul misunderstood the Jewish teaching of his day or, at the very least, that he created a straw man to bolster his own teaching regarding faith versus law.In the past, this view was supported by the fact that the phrase 'works of the law' nowhere appears in the foundational books of rabbinic Judaism.MMT, however, provides the 'smoking gun' for which students have been searching for generations, not from the pages of rabbinic literature, but from the sectarian teachings of Qumran. MMT demonstrates that Paul was not jousting with windmills, but was indeed squared off in a dramatic duel -- not with mainstream Judaism but with a sectarian theology -- that ultimately defined Christianity. If I have understood rightly, the importance of MMT for New Testament research is nothing short of revolutionary" (ibid., p.55).

Clearly, in Romans and Galatians Paul taught against"legalism" and the teaching that one could be saved and achieve salvation through the Law of Moses -- which was the Jewish teaching of the time.Rabbinic Judaism still teaches today that obedience to the LAW is the way to salvation -- that the Torah is the key to eternal life.Yet they reject the Messiah, and the atoning work of the Messiah, as of no consequence and unnecessary for salvation.

They have seriously missed the boat.Paul makes that issue crystal clear in Romans and Galatians.Clearly, there can be no salvation, and no eternal life, apart from Jesus Christ our Lord!And in following Christ, we should not become burdened by or under the bondage of "the works of the law" of rabbinic halakah and traditions, rulings, precepts, and extensions of the Torah, as it is in the Scriptures.

On the other hand, we also need to be careful not to come under the "bondage" to the "oral law" or "halakah" of various Christian-professing churches, who create their own rules, regulations, prescriptions, and dogmas -- traditions of "men" which Jesus clearly rejected -- which violate the written Word and

Law of God.It is interesting that those churches which seem to object the strongest against the Jewish "oral law" themselves create their own "oral law," although they do not call it that.

Historically, even the Sadducees, who rejected the "oral law" preserved by the Pharisees, found it necessary to create their own "halakah" and "oral tradition," in order to expound the Scriptures.

However, any "tradition" or "church custom" which contradicts the Word of God -- Torah, or divine Revelation of the Scriptures -- must itself be rejected and avoided.

The bottom line, therefore, is that Christ Himself has the last word -- He is the "second Moses," the Prophet like unto Moses, who had FINAL AUTHORITY to "interpret" the Mosaic Law -- and provide a new "halakkah" of true interpretation and obedience (see Matthew 5-7).He came to "fill full" the Law, and make it complete (Matt.5:17-19).

To really understand God's Law, therefore, and its application to Christians, and the New Covenant, we need to search the Scriptures, and the words of Christ.We need to avoid all the "works of the law," or man-made religious taboos and constraints, which men have added from time to time, for one reason or another, to the Scriptures, leading into a yoke of heavy-handed authoritarian bondage and spiritual slavery.

The "works of the law" that Christ and Paul condemned were the human additions to God's Law which made it a system of bondage and misery.Neither of them were condemning the keeping of God's commandments or referring to obedience to God's Law as "works of the law" -- not at all!

Let's thank God for this precious truth and revelation -- and for the beauty of His Torah Law and Revelation!

That OP will send a lot of you new believers to hell. She is a divinatress and not a true believer. The posts which had. I local fa fa refuting her rebellion she deleted

Jesus said:
I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. John 15:5

Our Lord was always trying to point out that we cannot produce good fruit apart from Him.

He calls you and me branches. The desired outcome of the relationship between the vine and the branch is to bear "much fruit."

Think about the roles of the vine and branch. Whose job is it to produce fruit?

If you cut a branch off of the vine, will it bear fruit?

No, it won't.

So, it is clearly the vine's responsibility to do the producing. It is the source of life and therefore fruit.

The role of the branch is to be the "fruit hanger".

It can only bear fruit if there is a vital link and flow of life between it and the vine.

The role of the branch is total dependence on the vine.

We do not have the ability to produce the life of Christ if we are not abiding in Him.

It is like learning how to float in water.

When YOU try your hardest to stay afloat, you will only discover that you are sinking.

It is the water's job to keep you afloat, you just need to learn to surrender yourself to the water.

Jesus said, "Apart from me you can do nothing". How much can WE do? NOTHING.

So, the branch's abiding in the vine and our surrender to the water both illustrate our need to depend totally on Jesus Christ.

When we take it upon ourselves to keep the Law, we are not abiding in Him.

Your dependence is on yourself for your salvation and not upon total reliance and trust in the Lord for what He did on the cross.

APART FROM HIM=NOTHING. But through HIM, we can GUARD His Commandments, because they are NOT burdensome.

Yes indeed...... if we love Him, we will guard His word and have it written in our foreheads and our right hand...His Word is His mark.....

the mark of the AntiChrist is anti-torah... lawlessness.

Last Edited by If You Only Knew on 04/09/2012 04:02 PM

"We know that the law is good if one uses it properly" 1Timothy 1:8

The law is properly used to show his man his need so that he will turn to Jesus Christ for salvation.

It is improperly used to try to live the Christian life.

Last Edited by KoFFee_ on 04/09/2012 04:14 PM

We need His loving instructions to live by.... if you think that once you have accepted His gift of salvation that you have no need for further instructions from the Father, you are sadly mistaken.

Why do you suppose there are some 30,000 denominations, all claiming to be the TRUE church and full of the Holy Spirit?

Revelation 14:12

New King James Version (NKJV)

12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those[a] who keep the commandments of God (the Father) and the faith of Jesus (the Son).

There are TWO things we must do.

Coffee Sri ker you quoting half truths. The rest of that s riptide continues to say that the law is for the DISOBEDIENT And the LAWLESS. Please you Christians love to do this. Give us the meat please.

Correction

And who are the lawless and disobedient ? People like you and the op who deny the law and teach others to do the same

And what does it say before that?

Such things promote controversial speculations rather than advancing God’s work—which is by faith.

5 The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.

6 Some have departed from these and have turned to meaningless talk.

7 They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.

It is really simple.
God gave us life,and we are ruining it(ourselves,plants,wildlife),so He came as a complete man,didn't sin,and they killed Him because they enjoyed their sinning.
We killed Him with our sins in His planet,sin is bad for us so God is teaching us not to sin.
If you take some time to read the gospel,on what the faith in Jesus Christ stands on,you will come to understanding.

It is really simple,just take some time and don't be close minded and ignorant.

The Bible is Scripture.
Jesus is the Word.

The Scripture Shows you the Word.
The Word teaches you The Truth by writing it on your heart.
Jesus speaks to your heart, the scripture does not.

THAT is what puts you above the Law.
When you LISTEN (not read) to Him SPEAKING (not what has been written) to you, you are in The Spirit and no longer a slave to law and in the process of eternal salvation.

Christ teaches you directly how to be free of sin.

And no , I did not watch the video. I am unable to nor do I wish to.

The law is for the disobedient and the lawless that is biblical confirmed fact. You and the op will be going to hell of you don't stop your lies. Your coffee will always be hot and nice there and the op will have all her threads so you can read together

I do not think Neim is in bondage at all. I believe his IS in Spirit and is being polished.
Salvation is an ongoing process, not an instantaneous occurring when you prostrate yourself and ask for His Grace.

When we ask for his Grace, we pick up our own cross. Then He shows us where we falter so we may hang that particular sin on our cross and one by one, mete out the rest of them.

It is not until he has guided through our follies and polished us to perfection that the serpent's head is crushed in us and we are fully in Christ.

Only THEN have we found full salvation.

Spoken in love?

I understand that this is a bit off-topic, and I understand what you are stating here, but I think that it should be noted that it is a good thing to be part of an orthodox, Bible believing group of Christians. To be part of the Body of Christ and not an independent agents.

"And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds, not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another — and all the more as you see the Day approaching." (Hebrews 10:24,25)

Why do other believers care so much if I OBEY or not?

It's really no one's business if I'm a "legalizer" or not. I do not obey the Father as my path to salvation, I do so out of love.

I choose to love Him as HE wishes to be loved and not how I want to love Him.

It's one thing to believe "I can do whatever I want because I worship JEEEZUSSSS!" but it's another matter entirely when believers feel a need to tell me to disobey the wishes of the Father just because their pastor said they don't have to obey.

If people wish to reject the words of HaMoshiach Himself and go on living a life of iniquity, that's between them and the Elohim.

Just remember that the Messiah said quite clearly that by whatever standards we judge others are the same standards by which we ourselves will be judged.

What's more, the title of this thread is completely contradictory. How can someone be both a legalist and unrpentant?

A legalist is one that obeys the commandments, the unrepentant is a fair description of most traditional Christians. Repenting is the turning away from Sin. Sin is a violation of the Law. Hence, someone who upholds and keeps Torah are about as far from "unrepentant" as humanly possible.

Last Edited by Sir Phydeau on 04/09/2012 05:00 PM

An open message: How can you possibly expect anyone to understand your faith when as a group, you can't figure it out?

All I've seen is circular arguments, and not one will name their religion.

If you say Christianity, I will respond like I did to him...excuse me,
WHAT KIND??

Face it man they're doomed to be extinct already.
But like dinosaurs, we can always preserve and observe them for our children.

You are invited to "observe" me any time you wish.

People who are under the law continually feel guilt and condemnation. They usually find it hard to be kind and forgiving to other people. When they are, it is usually just a show and doesn't truly come from their heart.

Living by grace allows the love of Jesus Christ to shine through us. It is His forgiveness and love that is real--not hypocritical. It is His understanding that we come to know and renews our mind into His way of thinking.

It is only Jesus Christ alone--His Blood, His sacrifice, His life lived through us that enables us to truly feel free.

“If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” John 8: 31, 32

Well, then let me be the first to answer your question. I am a Torah observant follower of Yahushua HaMoshiach. Also known as a member of the "Messianic Judaism sect". Granted, I only count myself as a member of this sect because it's the closest fit to my walk, but it's still a pretty decent fit for the most part.

These threads always irk me a bit because when someone calls out "legalizers", they're referring to anyone that believes in obedience to their God.

Never ceases to amaze me how much veiled hatred modern Christians have for people who embrace their Hebraic Roots of their faith. Protestants hate us almost as much as they hate Catholics. Catholics hate us even more than they hate protestants.

Jewish folk are just now getting to where they'll accept Messianics, but only because we don't seem to suffer from this "madness" they see in modern Christians. (Yet Christians wonder why they can't seem to convert many jewish people)

Hell, most Christians don't even comprehend the 7 feasts of Isreal and their connection to the death and resurrection of HaMoshiach.

It's amazing how many believers today reject the words of HaMoshiach in favor of words contained within personal letters of a self proclaimed Apostle whom the other apostles rejected with venom.

Last Edited by Sir Phydeau on 04/09/2012 05:13 PM

So, by your logic, the only way to follow HaMosiach is to reject the Father?

That makes no sense at all. The Son never once, EVER stated we are to reject the father or His commandments. Not once, not ever. But don't let that get in the way, right?

I understand, your truth, your faith is like asking a trooper to go AWOL, because that is the way truth being planted in someone, and that's the only reality they are wiling to live and to die for.

Most Christian preacher are heartless selfish bastard and hypocrites coward scum, born with mind to be saved. Not all tho...