If you religitards AND non-believers would kindly STFU, I will offer you the possibility of God | |
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Anonymous Coward User ID: 12842609 United States 04/14/2012 01:19 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | OP, what do you think about the Illuminati etc having their hand in so-called religious books etc and either writing them all themselves, or twisting the words to fit what they want in the long run, but it looks like it benefits us? But down the road it all just turns in their favor |
BobE User ID: 11880342 United States 04/14/2012 01:54 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | We can currently "see" about 15 billion light years into space. In five or ten years we might likely be able to see 16 to 20 billion light years out. In one hundred years, perhaps 30 billion light years. In one thousand years even further. Quoting: danwa Questions: Are you talking about observing across the Universe such as observing the [link to en.wikipedia.org] Sourced from [link to en.wikipedia.org] or back through the Universe such as using a radio telescope, for instance, in observing the birth of the universe analyzing background radiation noise? We can't see very far, but we sure can hear all the way back. With that models can be constructed. That's quite impressive I must say. I posted the vid because I want noted what is said at around 3:43 during the run time of the video. "We know the Universe is bigger than which we can see." I'm sure this is what you are saying. That we will be able to see further and further as time goes on and technology progresses, visually further, in better detail across and back into the Universe. Right now we can hear everything all the back, but only from what hits our very tiny position. And The age of the Universe is estimated to be approximately just under 14 billion years converted into LYs about 46 billion light years. So I guess it's possible to observe across the observable universe more than the age of the Universe. That should be close to a 28 billion max. [link to en.wikipedia.org] Therefor I am assuming you rounded that number off at 30? I'm not sure what you mean about "even further." I'm sure a thousand can be added at some point. Am I correct? Lazy dayz every dayz. |
BobE User ID: 11880342 United States 04/14/2012 02:33 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Also, If you would ponder this, the idea that the universe repeats itself in the exact same order based on a recreation model. The primeval atom being made up of a single base energy comprised of all the different known energies on the electromagnetic scale. The amount of energy being the same each time as energy can not be created nor destroyed. This would mean we live our same exact lives each time we live. Everything that happens in the Universe during its life cycle is the same. This because all things that happen are linked to a single event based upon not variables, (this due to the fact the conditions can't not be altered as the law of conservation dictates and therefore cannot allow chaos theory to be true) but a predetermination theoretical model which has to be more than plausible. Therefore I am a believer in such a possibility of recreation. For this reason alone in asking this question, "What are the odds you and I are alive right now?" should sway you. This knowing that each cycle could last trillions of years. If so, you have a better chance of hitting the Mega millions jackpot two weeks in a row. Think about it? I wrote the above because I think one day when we can observe more details of the Universe, we will be able to predict what will happen in the Universe, like we do now predicting the weather. However the results matched to the predictions will be difficult given the needed time to observe results. The human race may not be around or have evolved into another life form before any results can be known. That means the math will have to be right on the money so to speak, undisputed. Right now chaos theory (a product of junk science, aka myth math which no one wants to dispute because the effort it would take to do so is overwhelming) is the major roadblock in the way of studying the recreation theory in any mainstream meaningful way. That blocks access to funding and the minds available who can do the work. Lazy dayz every dayz. |
danwa (OP) User ID: 1522311 United States 04/14/2012 05:55 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | OP, what do you think about the Illuminati etc having their hand in so-called religious books etc and either writing them all themselves, or twisting the words to fit what they want in the long run, but it looks like it benefits us? But down the road it all just turns in their favor Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12842609 That's an excellent question. Do you see why? Let me explain. You asked what "do I think" and not what "do I believe". There is an important difference between the two and that was the point of my original post. Consider this, non-believers can not beilieve in a universe with a God and believers can not believe in a universe without a God. But both can think about a universe in either condition. When we discuss beliefs there is an inherent contradiction in our positions, and thus a predispositiion to assume one side of the argument or the other without giving due consideration of the opposing view. I offered only a possibilty and did not offer my belief to allow both sides to think. When we believe something, we look beyond what is right in front of us, there is no need to look anywhere else. When we think about something, we look at all the possibilties. We hold our beliefs at all times, but do not think about them nerarly enough. So thanks for the question as it helps to clarify the intent of my original post, a reminder to be observant and aware of what is right in front of us, to think. Now to answer your question. I think there are powerful organizations on this earth, both secret and non-secret that are not motivated by what is in the best interest of us all. They have an agenda of their own. It is likely that these organizations have opposing beliefs and thus are in conflict, perhaps vying for the same ultimate goal. It is also likely this has been going on for a very long time, directly influencing religion, science and government. I'm not sure it will turn in their favor, it seems to me that their influence is being diminished by our greater awareness. Please note that our awarenes is strengthened by looking at what is right in front of us and thinking :) |
danwa (OP) User ID: 1522311 United States 04/14/2012 06:00 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | BobE. Please see my reply to the AC above. Give me a little time and I will respond to your comments and questions. You make some very interesting points and I would like to address them as thoughtfully as I can. |
danwa (OP) User ID: 1522311 United States 04/14/2012 07:20 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | We can currently "see" about 15 billion light years into space. In five or ten years we might likely be able to see 16 to 20 billion light years out. In one hundred years, perhaps 30 billion light years. In one thousand years even further. Quoting: danwa Questions: Are you talking about observing across the Universe such as observing the [link to en.wikipedia.org] Sourced from [link to en.wikipedia.org] or back through the Universe such as using a radio telescope, for instance, in observing the birth of the universe analyzing background radiation noise? We can't see very far, but we sure can hear all the way back. With that models can be constructed. That's quite impressive I must say. I posted the vid because I want noted what is said at around 3:43 during the run time of the video. "We know the Universe is bigger than which we can see." I'm sure this is what you are saying. That we will be able to see further and further as time goes on and technology progresses, visually further, in better detail across and back into the Universe. Right now we can hear everything all the back, but only from what hits our very tiny position. And The age of the Universe is estimated to be approximately just under 14 billion years converted into LYs about 46 billion light years. So I guess it's possible to observe across the observable universe more than the age of the Universe. That should be close to a 28 billion max. [link to en.wikipedia.org] Therefor I am assuming you rounded that number off at 30? I'm not sure what you mean about "even further." I'm sure a thousand can be added at some point. Am I correct? That is a great video. I was referring to the general agreement among scientists and astronomers that the universe was created 10 to 20 billion years ago and extrapolated from there. There remain differing opinions, but I was just trying to express creation in the simplest terms with the fewest variables possible...Occam's razor and an exercise in thought. That being primarily from a scientific perspective, many religions and most certainly creationist, would argue that their theory (belief) offers an even simpler explanation. I tried to accommodate and include both perspectives without taking a position. I don't think we can know what we will find tomorrow or in a thousand years+. It may very well be that as long as we keep looking we will keep finding more. That seems to be the best conclusion we can make at this point in time as this is exactly what we continue to observe. I do indeed think the universe is bigger than we can see, but I don't think we can say we know that without allowing a probability that we are incorrect (and therefore do not know with 100% confidence). I'll have to respond to your second reply after dinner...thanks. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 12842609 United States 04/14/2012 07:26 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Now to answer your question. I think there are powerful organizations on this earth, both secret and non-secret that are not motivated by what is in the best interest of us all. They have an agenda of their own. It is likely that these organizations have opposing beliefs and thus are in conflict, perhaps vying for the same ultimate goal. It is also likely this has been going on for a very long time, directly influencing religion, science and government. I'm not sure it will turn in their favor, it seems to me that their influence is being diminished by our greater awareness. Please note that our awarenes is strengthened by looking at what is right in front of us and thinking :) Hey OP thanks for your answer. Really interesting thread. I don't know if this is little off track-or not, your thread makes my mind go in a million directions! lol Science religion and government. And even the media, especially with entertainment media...movies etc? I feel really let down lately. I love movies. But they have to have some trickle down effect or whatever, if it is true about the higher up places (government etc)being a part of this illusion, so I am really saddened by this as it has had great influence over my kids and myself. I love fiction. What if those types of things are used to keep us in line? How do you handle it when you learn that things are not as they seem? |
BobE User ID: 11880342 United States 04/15/2012 02:32 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Now to answer your question. I think there are powerful organizations on this earth, both secret and non-secret that are not motivated by what is in the best interest of us all. They have an agenda of their own. It is likely that these organizations have opposing beliefs and thus are in conflict, perhaps vying for the same ultimate goal. It is also likely this has been going on for a very long time, directly influencing religion, science and government. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12842609 I'm not sure it will turn in their favor, it seems to me that their influence is being diminished by our greater awareness. Please note that our awarenes is strengthened by looking at what is right in front of us and thinking :) Hey OP thanks for your answer. Really interesting thread. I don't know if this is little off track-or not, your thread makes my mind go in a million directions! lol Science religion and government. And even the media, especially with entertainment media...movies etc? I feel really let down lately. I love movies. But they have to have some trickle down effect or whatever, if it is true about the higher up places (government etc)being a part of this illusion, so I am really saddened by this as it has had great influence over my kids and myself. I love fiction. What if those types of things are used to keep us in line? How do you handle it when you learn that things are not as they seem? This is not about Da Vinci Code or National Treasure story lines, Catholics vs SR Masons ect. It's about the quest for MONEY. Study how chimpanzees operate within their troops, and apply it to how humans peruse money, bananas. There lays the answer. Monkey see monkey do vs Human see human must not do. This to think beyond the basic motives of what drives us. To give up personal greed for a more human society with at the same time protecting against the threat of overbearing governments and the plutocrats who are behind their manipulations and controls all designed to limit competition and rig markets for their sole advantages to protect their accesses, monopolies to access vast amount of capital. The keys to the kingdom, so to speak. "The Enterprise" where only a select few may make money with money and the rest are to live in poverty and be enslaved through socioeconomic "traps." This is how the real world operates If knowing more about the Universe can bring Heaven on Earth, I'm all for it. It seems to be organized chaos, but is a very balanced order set on a predetermined course. If we understand and except this truth, we can learn to work with its course and not try to fight against the greatest cosmic currents as the fish in the sea have learned. Do as they do, and peace shall be achieved with such understanding. < An A. E. quote spin there. ;) But I'm no Eisenstein Last Edited by BobE on 04/15/2012 02:44 PM Lazy dayz every dayz. |
BobE User ID: 11880342 United States 04/15/2012 02:37 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | PS To note: This is Eisenstein [link to en.wikipedia.org] And this is Einstein [link to en.wikipedia.org] Lazy dayz every dayz. |
BobE User ID: 11880342 United States 04/15/2012 02:43 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I couldn't seem to get that video to load in my prier post if my life depended on it. Finally it loaded. :-) I had to go back and "monkey" around with it several times before it did. Last Edited by BobE on 04/15/2012 02:48 PM Lazy dayz every dayz. |
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danwa (OP) User ID: 1522311 United States 04/19/2012 01:31 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Also, If you would ponder this, the idea that the universe repeats itself in the exact same order based on a recreation model. The primeval atom being made up of a single base energy comprised of all the different known energies on the electromagnetic scale. The amount of energy being the same each time as energy can not be created nor destroyed. This would mean we live our same exact lives each time we live. Everything that happens in the Universe during its life cycle is the same. This because all things that happen are linked to a single event based upon not variables, (this due to the fact the conditions can't not be altered as the law of conservation dictates and therefore cannot allow chaos theory to be true) but a predetermination theoretical model which has to be more than plausible. Therefore I am a believer in such a possibility of recreation. For this reason alone in asking this question, "What are the odds you and I are alive right now?" should sway you. This knowing that each cycle could last trillions of years. If so, you have a better chance of hitting the Mega millions jackpot two weeks in a row. Quoting: BobE Think about it? I wrote the above because I think one day when we can observe more details of the Universe, we will be able to predict what will happen in the Universe, like we do now predicting the weather. However the results matched to the predictions will be difficult given the needed time to observe results. The human race may not be around or have evolved into another life form before any results can be known. That means the math will have to be right on the money so to speak, undisputed. Right now chaos theory (a product of junk science, aka myth math which no one wants to dispute because the effort it would take to do so is overwhelming) is the major roadblock in the way of studying the recreation theory in any mainstream meaningful way. That blocks access to funding and the minds available who can do the work. BobE, first let me apologize for taking so long to respond. Something very important came up and I will just leave it at that, but I really do appreciate your questions and your well informed comments. Thank you. "What are the odds you and I are alive right now?" As you are obviously already aware, "alive" is a term often misinterpreted as meaning conscious in the now. I do think that we are alive in the now, meaning we are sharing the conscious reality of the same space-time frame of reference. We are both "alive" in the 3D reality we call now. Isn't interesting that now is really the past? If we say I am here right now, by the time we utter the words, the now is already in the past. It is difficult to grasp, but there can really be no "now". That leaves us with past and future. We have shared the past, in this thread for example and we can share a future time frame. I know that skirts the question, but something worth noting. I think our consciousness shapes the future in some way. Like the dual split experiment with light, Shroedinger's cat and quantum entanglement, there is evidence that mere observation somehow influences physics at the quantum level and may even shape or be causative in the transformation of energy to matter on a grander scale, perhaps on a universal scale. I love Chaos theory. I have been working on a paper involving entropy and consciousness and hope to post it soon. If I do not post it here, I will let you know where I have posted it because I would appreciate your comment and perspective. Back to your question, I think that we are alive "now" and I base this upon our ability to exchange information in the current realm we share. Because of this, regardless of holographic theory, consciousness definitions or laws of physics and QM, we will be able to expand our understanding of the universe. It will be a long time, as you pointed out, before we can predict what will happen, but I think we are on our way to finding ways to doing just that. I am not positive that we will ever have the entire picture, but without question, we will have a much better understanding. Who knows what is really possible? Time will tell. Last Edited by danwa on 04/19/2012 01:50 AM |
danwa (OP) User ID: 1522311 United States 04/19/2012 01:33 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Now to answer your question. I think there are powerful organizations on this earth, both secret and non-secret that are not motivated by what is in the best interest of us all. They have an agenda of their own. It is likely that these organizations have opposing beliefs and thus are in conflict, perhaps vying for the same ultimate goal. It is also likely this has been going on for a very long time, directly influencing religion, science and government. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12842609 I'm not sure it will turn in their favor, it seems to me that their influence is being diminished by our greater awareness. Please note that our awarenes is strengthened by looking at what is right in front of us and thinking :) Hey OP thanks for your answer. Really interesting thread. I don't know if this is little off track-or not, your thread makes my mind go in a million directions! lol Science religion and government. And even the media, especially with entertainment media...movies etc? I feel really let down lately. I love movies. But they have to have some trickle down effect or whatever, if it is true about the higher up places (government etc)being a part of this illusion, so I am really saddened by this as it has had great influence over my kids and myself. I love fiction. What if those types of things are used to keep us in line? How do you handle it when you learn that things are not as they seem? This is not about Da Vinci Code or National Treasure story lines, Catholics vs SR Masons ect. It's about the quest for MONEY. Study how chimpanzees operate within their troops, and apply it to how humans peruse money, bananas. There lays the answer. Monkey see monkey do vs Human see human must not do. This to think beyond the basic motives of what drives us. To give up personal greed for a more human society with at the same time protecting against the threat of overbearing governments and the plutocrats who are behind their manipulations and controls all designed to limit competition and rig markets for their sole advantages to protect their accesses, monopolies to access vast amount of capital. The keys to the kingdom, so to speak. "The Enterprise" where only a select few may make money with money and the rest are to live in poverty and be enslaved through socioeconomic "traps." This is how the real world operates If knowing more about the Universe can bring Heaven on Earth, I'm all for it. It seems to be organized chaos, but is a very balanced order set on a predetermined course. If we understand and except this truth, we can learn to work with its course and not try to fight against the greatest cosmic currents as the fish in the sea have learned. Do as they do, and peace shall be achieved with such understanding. < An A. E. quote spin there. ;) But I'm no Eisenstein Thanks. That was an excellent answer and well stated. |
danwa (OP) User ID: 1522311 United States 04/19/2012 01:35 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | BobE I understand that Sometimes I just have so many questions that my mind can wander. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12842609 Encourage yourself (your mind) to wander more, that is where you will find many answers. Last Edited by danwa on 04/19/2012 01:35 AM |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1462976 United States 04/20/2012 01:45 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1462976 United States 04/20/2012 01:46 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | OP, what do you think about the Illuminati etc having their hand in so-called religious books etc and either writing them all themselves, or twisting the words to fit what they want in the long run, but it looks like it benefits us? But down the road it all just turns in their favor Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12842609 totally |
danwa (OP) User ID: 1522311 United States 04/20/2012 01:51 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Danwa.... you are divided upon yourself. One can not complain for religion..... and complain against religion. you would be on the non religion side.... hence you are against yourself. Quoting: Medic i insist that logic doesnt complete the puzzle on its own. Thanks, well said. I am on neither side. I have learned that taking sides can only lead to ignorance. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1462976 United States 04/20/2012 01:53 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Danwa.... you are divided upon yourself. One can not complain for religion..... and complain against religion. you would be on the non religion side.... hence you are against yourself. Quoting: Medic i insist that logic doesnt complete the puzzle on its own. Thanks, well said. I am on neither side. I have learned that taking sides can only lead to ignorance. but i also think that there's times where a split decision has to be made so that action can be taken! |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 10801032 United States 04/20/2012 01:54 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I offered only a possibilty and did not offer my belief to allow both sides to think. When we believe something, we look beyond what is right in front of us, there is no need to look anywhere else. When we think about something, we look at all the possibilties. We hold our beliefs at all times, but do not think about them nerarly enough. So thanks for the question as it helps to clarify the intent of my original post, a reminder to be observant and aware of what is right in front of us, to think. Quoting: danwa That's called theorizing, which you earlier said was no different than believing, but now say it is. |
danwa (OP) User ID: 1522311 United States 04/20/2012 02:05 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Danwa.... you are divided upon yourself. One can not complain for religion..... and complain against religion. you would be on the non religion side.... hence you are against yourself. Quoting: Medic i insist that logic doesnt complete the puzzle on its own. Thanks, well said. I am on neither side. I have learned that taking sides can only lead to ignorance. but i also think that there's times where a split decision has to be made so that action can be taken! Yes. Choose wisely and choose with your heart and not your mind, more often than not you will make the right choice. We will all make poor choices in this life, wisdom comes from learning from them and correcting them. |
danwa (OP) User ID: 1522311 United States 04/20/2012 02:09 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I offered only a possibilty and did not offer my belief to allow both sides to think. When we believe something, we look beyond what is right in front of us, there is no need to look anywhere else. When we think about something, we look at all the possibilties. We hold our beliefs at all times, but do not think about them nerarly enough. So thanks for the question as it helps to clarify the intent of my original post, a reminder to be observant and aware of what is right in front of us, to think. Quoting: danwa That's called theorizing, which you earlier said was no different than believing, but now say it is. It was a statement. I try to look at all the possibilities. Is that possible? Perhaps not, but it is what I do and therefore not theory. |
danwa (OP) User ID: 1522311 United States 04/25/2012 03:06 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Danwa.... you are divided upon yourself. One can not complain for religion..... and complain against religion. you would be on the non religion side.... hence you are against yourself. Quoting: Medic i insist that logic doesnt complete the puzzle on its own. Thanks. I am not divided upon myself (well unless you consider naming certain body parts, but that is a whole other issue)!! I have formed my beliefs in part based on religion and largely in part based on my education and experiences. I attended Catholic schools and graduated with honors from respectable universities. I have extensively researched a variety of subjects and spoken to some very talented professionals and non-professionals alike, gathering bits and pieces of information that continually serve to establish what I believe. My beliefs are not set in stone, for that just serves to create a fanatic blinded by faith and without possibility. I hold my personal beliefs with conviction, but allow myself the flexibility to change my beliefs as the information and evidence warrants. We are explorers by nature and the ability to discover is what makes us human and allows us to grow both spiritually and intellectually. I am sorry you feel I am divided upon myself. Know this, I am happy and content, secure in my beliefs. I share my love and kindness with others, offer my advice and opinions openly and honestly. I do my best to present my perspectives based on facts/references and make it clear that these are my opinions, nothing more. I don't want anyone to adopt my beliefs (they are mine), rather I want to encourage and challenge all to come to their own conclusions. Beliefs and the journey undertaken to establish them are very individual and personal. May your journey be rewarding, comfort your soul and bring happiness in your life. |