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SHTF Orchard Planting in the Heartland

 
Anonymous Coward
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04/14/2012 03:00 PM
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Re: SHTF Orchard Planting in the Heartland
on our bol, we have fruit trees and a small vineyard.

definitely will help during any rebuilding, plus they are yummy if everything goes peachy! toast to no doom cheers
Anonymous Coward
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04/14/2012 03:49 PM
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Re: SHTF Orchard Planting in the Heartland
tobacco is also a powerful insecticide (you can't use it on tomatoes and other nightshade plants). you can buy organic tobacco online and make a tea with it to spray your plants. you can also make insecticides with water and essential oils like neem and lavender.
 Quoting: enigmatic muse


tobacco is a heavy feeder and will tend to deplete your soil quickly, just so you know.
It is a bit fussy to grow especially when starting. And for those that care, homegrown is smokable but nothing like storebought, smells like any other weed burning but does the job. It's all in the processing.
Anonymous Coward
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04/14/2012 04:08 PM
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Re: SHTF Orchard Planting in the Heartland
tobacco is also a powerful insecticide (you can't use it on tomatoes and other nightshade plants). you can buy organic tobacco online and make a tea with it to spray your plants. you can also make insecticides with water and essential oils like neem and lavender.
 Quoting: enigmatic muse


My grandpa used to have a large garden every year. He would take a couple of plugs of Redman chewing tobacco and break them up and put them in a bucket with a handful of ashes from the wood stove and pour a gallon of boilng water over everything and let it set for about a week.
He would then strain it with cheese cloth and put about a half a cup of the "tea" in a 2 gallon sprayer, add 2 12 ounce bottles of beer and fill the rest with water. Thats what he sprayed everything in his garden with about once a month and he said it kept the bugs, birds and ground critters out.
He always had beautiful veggies and lots of them.

I have been doing this for a few years now and it really seems to work !
Girl Genius (OP)

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04/14/2012 05:15 PM
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Re: SHTF Orchard Planting in the Heartland
tobacco is also a powerful insecticide (you can't use it on tomatoes and other nightshade plants). you can buy organic tobacco online and make a tea with it to spray your plants. you can also make insecticides with water and essential oils like neem and lavender.
 Quoting: enigmatic muse


thanks.


I'm also going to try and put some flowers around some of my other trees. I have daylillies and they are easy. The flowers around the front trees are more like flocks and fire witches. I'm surprised that the bulb flowers won't take more water than grass but if you're right I may use them for the ones in the back. Thanks.hf
 Quoting: D'Light


Great tips - ty, EM hf

D'L - I have daylilies, too - they were among the first things we planted when we moved to the country and they are doing wonderfully well. I will have to thin them and start another patch soon because of their exuberance! Have you done that yet? I split one of my peony patches this year without any problems so I hope the daylilies will go as smoothly :)

Btw, did you know that every part of the daylily is edible and nutritious?
 Quoting: Girl Genius


that's why I suggested them along with saffron crocus (don't know if the whole saffron flower is edible though):) You have to plant the saffron bulbs in august. I love the idea of growing the most expensive and one of the most exquisite spices in my yard:)

bamboo is also edible and generally grows prolifically but it can take over so keep that in mind if you plant it. It also makes a great/safe place to hide in, in the event of a tornado:)
 Quoting: enigmatic muse


Love foraging - I have several good books and often snack on the trail and out doing chores. We planted a couple of elderberry trees a few years ago and now we have elderberry trees everywhere, lol.

I love the saffron idea - will definitely look into that. We are also going to get shitaki mushroom plugs for log planting. Our friends did that last spring and they had an awesome crop - the best shitakis I ever tried!
For nothing is secret that will not be revealed…

:blue-faeries:
Girl Genius (OP)

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04/14/2012 05:33 PM
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Re: SHTF Orchard Planting in the Heartland
on our bol, we have fruit trees and a small vineyard.

definitely will help during any rebuilding, plus they are yummy if everything goes peachy! toast to no doom cheers
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14063985


Definitely gonna try grapes again. I have made elderberry wine and I wasn't terribly impressed but I think I needed to use more sugar. I might also try plum wine until I get the grapes going.
For nothing is secret that will not be revealed…

:blue-faeries:
Girl Genius (OP)

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04/14/2012 05:38 PM
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Re: SHTF Orchard Planting in the Heartland
This is an awesome thread.

I have been trying to grow things here in the burbs of DFW and its nowhere near as easy as where I grew up in Wisconsin. I have grown peppers and herbs, but tomatoes and potatoes have failed miserably.

So this year I am using TOpsy Turvy planters on the east side of my house -- where the plants can get morning sun, but shaded in the harsh afternoon sun.

Finally -- it looks like gang busters. If they really produce as much fruit as I think they will then next year I will expand my efforts to 15 baskets and do some beans and peas and cucumbers too. I am so excited to finally have some beautiful looking plants!!
 Quoting: tandym


Thanks for stopping by, Tandy! I just got back in. We dug the holes for the last 5 trees we're planting this year. Not going to put them in until this storm passes, though. Those topsy turvy planters sound great! I've been skipping the veggies because I get so many free and cheap, but I always like to have a plan in case we have to fend for ourselves in one department or another (hence our "pet" cows).
For nothing is secret that will not be revealed…

:blue-faeries:
Anonymous Coward
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04/14/2012 05:45 PM
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Re: SHTF Orchard Planting in the Heartland
So we moved big time on our fruit orchard planting this year and have about 20 good sized trees in and another 5 on the sidelines. After mixed results with the ultra cheap bare root plantings and planting too many "ornamentals", we are gearing our remaining orchard space toward fruit bearing trees. So far we have some different varieties of apples, peaches, plums, and pears. They are young so I don't know which varieties have been successful.

Anyone else keeping an orchard? What have been your best and most reliable varieties? We want to go totally organic and self-sufficient.
 Quoting: Girl Genius


See what works in your area. It can vary within 30 miles, depending on microclimates.
Anonymous Coward
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04/14/2012 05:56 PM
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Re: SHTF Orchard Planting in the Heartland
" Reliance " peach has been the most dependable variety for us in the midwest.

Bartlett pears are tasty and prolific bearing, but they are prone to " fireblight "
which will kill out a few branches.

Gooseberries, elderberries,blackberries, and black currants perform well for us.

We also are growing our food organically with terrific results.
Anonymous Coward
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04/14/2012 06:27 PM
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Re: SHTF Orchard Planting in the Heartland
...


thanks.


I'm also going to try and put some flowers around some of my other trees. I have daylillies and they are easy. The flowers around the front trees are more like flocks and fire witches. I'm surprised that the bulb flowers won't take more water than grass but if you're right I may use them for the ones in the back. Thanks.hf
 Quoting: D'Light


Great tips - ty, EM hf

D'L - I have daylilies, too - they were among the first things we planted when we moved to the country and they are doing wonderfully well. I will have to thin them and start another patch soon because of their exuberance! Have you done that yet? I split one of my peony patches this year without any problems so I hope the daylilies will go as smoothly :)

Btw, did you know that every part of the daylily is edible and nutritious?
 Quoting: Girl Genius


that's why I suggested them along with saffron crocus (don't know if the whole saffron flower is edible though):) You have to plant the saffron bulbs in august. I love the idea of growing the most expensive and one of the most exquisite spices in my yard:)

bamboo is also edible and generally grows prolifically but it can take over so keep that in mind if you plant it. It also makes a great/safe place to hide in, in the event of a tornado:)
 Quoting: enigmatic muse


Love foraging - I have several good books and often snack on the trail and out doing chores. We planted a couple of elderberry trees a few years ago and now we have elderberry trees everywhere, lol.

I love the saffron idea - will definitely look into that. We are also going to get shitaki mushroom plugs for log planting. Our friends did that last spring and they had an awesome crop - the best shitakis I ever tried!
 Quoting: Girl Genius


I have thought about doing this to because the logs are supposed to produce a pond (?) of mushrooms. I don't know what kind of measurement that is but it sounds like a lot LOL. It sounds easy to make and maintain. Supposedly, that one log will produce for 5 years!!
Anonymous Coward
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04/14/2012 06:30 PM
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Re: SHTF Orchard Planting in the Heartland
on our bol, we have fruit trees and a small vineyard.

definitely will help during any rebuilding, plus they are yummy if everything goes peachy! toast to no doom cheers
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14063985


Definitely gonna try grapes again. I have made elderberry wine and I wasn't terribly impressed but I think I needed to use more sugar. I might also try plum wine until I get the grapes going.
 Quoting: Girl Genius


the rule is 1# of sugar per 1 gallon of water, works best with spring water and then aged in a wooden barrel. I found some really cute wooden barrels on ebay that are handmade in Mexico. We make homemade herbal beers but haven't made wine yet. we also do homemade sodas. Fun!
enigmatic muse

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04/14/2012 06:33 PM
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Re: SHTF Orchard Planting in the Heartland
" Reliance " peach has been the most dependable variety for us in the midwest.

Bartlett pears are tasty and prolific bearing, but they are prone to " fireblight "
which will kill out a few branches.

Gooseberries, elderberries,blackberries, and black currants perform well for us.

We also are growing our food organically with terrific results.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12200183


we have good luck too! the idea is keeping the plant/soil healthy and nature does the rest:)
wisc_natureboy

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04/14/2012 07:15 PM

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Re: SHTF Orchard Planting in the Heartland
bump
.
-
.

We all breathe the same air.
.-.. --- ...- . / .- .-.. .-..
(love/all)
Anonymous Coward
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04/15/2012 10:28 AM
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Re: SHTF Orchard Planting in the Heartland
Within GLP copy requirements.
Here's some info on using Marigolds:
[link to aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu]

Sometimes people resort to home remedies to control nematodes such as planting marigolds or mixing sugar or lye into the soil. Of these three, only marigolds are effective in controlling nematode populations.

Marigolds secrete toxic compounds of an a-terthienyl type into the soil which kills nematodes but planting a few marigolds around annual plants in infested soil will NOT prevent infection. Marigolds also act as a trap crop. Nematodes enter their roots but are unable to complete their life cycle. Trapped nematodes die without reproducing.

French marigolds, Tagetes patula, are more effective in controlling root knot nematodes than the African marigold, Tagetes erecta, which also is referred to as the American, Big or Aztec marigold. However, the Mari-Mum American marigold will be somewhat effective while beautifying the fall garden site when planted in August. To be effective marigolds must be planted as a solid crop and grown for 90 days to begin secreting the three compounds of an a-terthienyl type to reduce the nematode population.

If marigolds are planted close together, they form a dense canopy which retards weed and grass development. Many weeds and grasses serve as hosts for root knot nematodes. If the weeds are not controlled, marigolds may be unable to suppress the nematode population.

Using marigolds in a manner other than July or August- planted Mari-Mums can invite disaster. For example, planting a few marigolds here and there among tomatoes encourages spider mites. The spider mite is one of the most difficult garden pests to control and can become as serious a problem as the nematodes. Some gardeners claim that spider mites can be controlled by thoroughly spraying infested plants with three tablespoons of liquid sea weed concentrate per gallon of water before populations are extreme. The spray knocks them off and the sea weed supposedly functions as a foliar feed as well.

Remove all nematode-infected plants from the garden as soon as possible after production ceases. Removing the root system eliminates many of the nematodes. To remove as much of the root system as possible, use a shovel rather than just pulling the plant up by the stem.






There's a problem with my comprehension on the last part. Does this mean that they are not effective until after they've been planted for a year (that's one interpretation from my household-although I didn't read any of that-lol)
or
Does it mean it's better to have many marigolds because just a few will cause problems?

Anyone with better comprehension skills than we are having at this particular moment want to share?
Anonymous Coward
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04/15/2012 10:34 AM
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Re: SHTF Orchard Planting in the Heartland
The first year we had our peach tree I noticed some weird looking thing on the leaves. I can't remember the name of the disease but the internet showed me it was contagious and to remove those leaves ASAP. I went outside with a bag and removed every single leave that looked wrong (thank goodness the tree was still small and it seemed had started at the bottom of the limbs). There were no more problems and it seemed that I got rid of them early enough and everything has been fine since but we did learn to fertilize it every fall.

But, yeah, it's good to go check on them periodically to make sure everything looks right.
tandym

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04/15/2012 08:32 PM

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Re: SHTF Orchard Planting in the Heartland
tobacco is also a powerful insecticide (you can't use it on tomatoes and other nightshade plants). you can buy organic tobacco online and make a tea with it to spray your plants. you can also make insecticides with water and essential oils like neem and lavender.
 Quoting: enigmatic muse


thanks.


I'm also going to try and put some flowers around some of my other trees. I have daylillies and they are easy. The flowers around the front trees are more like flocks and fire witches. I'm surprised that the bulb flowers won't take more water than grass but if you're right I may use them for the ones in the back. Thanks.hf
 Quoting: D'Light


Gaia's garden is a fantastic book. Seriously, it makes reference to homesteads in the desert being turned into oasis' after implementing permaculture. you can also plant other "companion" plants under your trees. you can plant chives, chrysanthemums, mint, citronella that ward off insects and other plants at the bases of your fruit trees too. It also gives instructions for building trenches in your orchard, then filling them with branches and leaves. This well help keep the ground moist even in drought. best book ever, very inspiring and interesting. you can go to youtube and search "fruit forests". This method of growing food is highly sustainable and requires minimal maintenance once established.
 Quoting: enigmatic muse


I ordered the book!

This reminds me of the 'food forest' concept. WHen I eard about it I knew it would be a method I would want to try. Not only can you take advantage of every inch of ground, it disguises your garden in ways that only people who knew what they were looking for could see what it really was... that appeals to me!

One daydream I have is getting a piece of property and planting random herbs on it -- rosemary, chives, basil (hopefully will seed itself), oregano, etc and then coming back the next year to see what 'makes it', etc. Berry bushes would work well like this, too. Then one day if I ever had to retreat there I would already have some small but necessary things established there!
tandym

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04/15/2012 08:34 PM

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Re: SHTF Orchard Planting in the Heartland
tobacco is also a powerful insecticide (you can't use it on tomatoes and other nightshade plants). you can buy organic tobacco online and make a tea with it to spray your plants. you can also make insecticides with water and essential oils like neem and lavender.
 Quoting: enigmatic muse


thanks.


I'm also going to try and put some flowers around some of my other trees. I have daylillies and they are easy. The flowers around the front trees are more like flocks and fire witches. I'm surprised that the bulb flowers won't take more water than grass but if you're right I may use them for the ones in the back. Thanks.hf
 Quoting: D'Light


Great tips - ty, EM hf

D'L - I have daylilies, too - they were among the first things we planted when we moved to the country and they are doing wonderfully well. I will have to thin them and start another patch soon because of their exuberance! Have you done that yet? I split one of my peony patches this year without any problems so I hope the daylilies will go as smoothly :)

Btw, did you know that every part of the daylily is edible and nutritious?
 Quoting: Girl Genius


Edible is one thing -- but what do they taste like. Have you tried eating them yourself?
Anonymous Coward
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04/15/2012 09:08 PM
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Re: SHTF Orchard Planting in the Heartland
I lived in Iowa for about fifteen years. Concord grapes did really well there. Also walnuts and hazelnuts, so you may want to consider a couple of nut trees. And the blueberries did really well! Healthy and delicious eating, and you can freeze them, dehydrate them, or can them, too.

There are heirloom beans that you can eat in the green pod stage or let them mature into dried beans for storage.

[link to www.seedforsecurity.com]

[link to www.seedforsecurity.com]

I like the idea of the three sisters gardens, as it was developed by the people who have lived in North America for tens of thousands of years; they may just know what they're doing. It's a complete protein, too - corn, beans, squash.

[link to www.nativetech.org]

It wouldn't hurt to have a root cellar, it's what was used before refrigeration:

[link to www.wikihow.com]

Enjoy!
Anonymous Coward
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04/15/2012 10:31 PM
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Re: SHTF Orchard Planting in the Heartland
bump
Anonymous Coward
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04/15/2012 10:52 PM
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Re: SHTF Orchard Planting in the Heartland
Learn how to graft fruit trees. Saves space. I have a 3- year-old gala apple tree with about 5 other varieties. Plus some pear, plum, peach, cherry and nut trees. Grafting is definitely useful. I can plant seeds and graft older desirable varieties onto them. I can graft multiple varieties on one tree.
wisc_natureboy

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04/15/2012 11:02 PM

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Re: SHTF Orchard Planting in the Heartland
Edible is one thing -- but what do they taste like. Have you tried eating them yourself?
 Quoting: tandym


Everything tastes OK with Hot Sauce,
or whatever concentrated sauce you like. ;-`)
.
-
.

We all breathe the same air.
.-.. --- ...- . / .- .-.. .-..
(love/all)
Girl Genius (OP)

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04/15/2012 11:07 PM
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Re: SHTF Orchard Planting in the Heartland
tobacco is also a powerful insecticide (you can't use it on tomatoes and other nightshade plants). you can buy organic tobacco online and make a tea with it to spray your plants. you can also make insecticides with water and essential oils like neem and lavender.
 Quoting: enigmatic muse


thanks.


I'm also going to try and put some flowers around some of my other trees. I have daylillies and they are easy. The flowers around the front trees are more like flocks and fire witches. I'm surprised that the bulb flowers won't take more water than grass but if you're right I may use them for the ones in the back. Thanks.hf
 Quoting: D'Light


Great tips - ty, EM hf

D'L - I have daylilies, too - they were among the first things we planted when we moved to the country and they are doing wonderfully well. I will have to thin them and start another patch soon because of their exuberance! Have you done that yet? I split one of my peony patches this year without any problems so I hope the daylilies will go as smoothly :)

Btw, did you know that every part of the daylily is edible and nutritious?
 Quoting: Girl Genius


Edible is one thing -- but what do they taste like. Have you tried eating them yourself?
 Quoting: tandym


I love them too much to try just yet - just like my cows, lol. However, if SHTF, I will give it a try :)

Just bought some Pandora's Box Daylilies today: [link to www.paradisegarden.com]

Plus 4 rose bushes and 2 asian lilacs -- and 3 varieties of grapes! More blackberries, raspberies, and blueberries as well ... oh, my -- I have my work cut out the next few days flower
For nothing is secret that will not be revealed…

:blue-faeries:
Girl Genius (OP)

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04/15/2012 11:08 PM
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Re: SHTF Orchard Planting in the Heartland
Edible is one thing -- but what do they taste like. Have you tried eating them yourself?
 Quoting: tandym


Everything tastes OK with Hot Sauce,
or whatever concentrated sauce you like. ;-`)
 Quoting: wisc_natureboy


I LOVE hot sauce. Hubby always makes fun of me, but I love me some hot sauce...
For nothing is secret that will not be revealed…

:blue-faeries:
Girl Genius (OP)

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04/15/2012 11:10 PM
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Re: SHTF Orchard Planting in the Heartland
I lived in Iowa for about fifteen years. Concord grapes did really well there. Also walnuts and hazelnuts, so you may want to consider a couple of nut trees. And the blueberries did really well! Healthy and delicious eating, and you can freeze them, dehydrate them, or can them, too.

There are heirloom beans that you can eat in the green pod stage or let them mature into dried beans for storage.

[link to www.seedforsecurity.com]

[link to www.seedforsecurity.com]

I like the idea of the three sisters gardens, as it was developed by the people who have lived in North America for tens of thousands of years; they may just know what they're doing. It's a complete protein, too - corn, beans, squash.

[link to www.nativetech.org]

It wouldn't hurt to have a root cellar, it's what was used before refrigeration:

[link to www.wikihow.com]

Enjoy!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13921708



I got some pecans and black walnuts going for a few years now, plus some mature BW that came with the property. I have tried (and failed) with blueberries but am going to try again - bought 6 more today...
For nothing is secret that will not be revealed…

:blue-faeries:
wisc_natureboy

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04/15/2012 11:12 PM

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Re: SHTF Orchard Planting in the Heartland

cool2
.
-
.

We all breathe the same air.
.-.. --- ...- . / .- .-.. .-..
(love/all)
TDJ

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04/15/2012 11:14 PM
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Re: SHTF Orchard Planting in the Heartland
You know, I was in Wally World yesterday and I noticed an enormous bulk box of Hot Pockets. I thought of GLP, lol. I wonder if most of you buy in bulk and what you will do when the grid goes down and they all start rotting.
 Quoting: Girl Genius


It would have to be the ONLY thing I had left to eat before I would eat a Hot Pocket. You would have to cook em on a flat rock next to the fire in a true shtf situation.

Then you know you lost it when you say "man that was good" LOL
If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.

Bob Marley

“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.”
THOMAS PAINE (1737-1809)

Do not pray for an easy life, pray for the strength to endure a difficult one. Bruce Lee
Anonymous Coward
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04/15/2012 11:14 PM
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Re: SHTF Orchard Planting in the Heartland
Sitting on about 2 acres in a 7b zone.

I removed 6 ornamental non fruit/nut bearing trees from the front of my property and replaced them with 2 almond trees, 2 black walnut trees, and 2 pecan trees.

The back will have about 15 or more fruit trees, then adding 2 olive trees out front as well.

2 raised beds outside, 12'x24' and 12'x36', then a large green house 16x24feet. All will be organic, etc...

Chickens and nubian milking goats next...

The main thing is that you get fruit/nut trees that are right for your area.

The growing season where I am at SUCKS. I have to get trees that bloom the latest and long chill hours. You have to do the research because most places like HomeDepot and Lowes sells shit that might not grow in your area, but will grow in other areas quite well.

Shalom,
Eliyah Ben Yisrael
Anonymous Coward
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04/15/2012 11:18 PM
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Black walnuts are a messy tree. The husks have to rot a little before you can get the nut shells out and they stain everything black. Also the black walnut tree and leaves are poisonous to a lot of other things you might be trying to grow, and will kill them. Persian walnuts are much better. What kinda pecan trees?
Anonymous Coward
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04/15/2012 11:22 PM
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Re: SHTF Orchard Planting in the Heartland
Black walnuts are a messy tree. The husks have to rot a little before you can get the nut shells out and they stain everything black. Also the black walnut tree and leaves are poisonous to a lot of other things you might be trying to grow, and will kill them. Persian walnuts are much better. What kinda pecan trees?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14210837


2 Northern James.
Anonymous Coward
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04/15/2012 11:25 PM
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Re: SHTF Orchard Planting in the Heartland
Black walnuts are a messy tree. The husks have to rot a little before you can get the nut shells out and they stain everything black. Also the black walnut tree and leaves are poisonous to a lot of other things you might be trying to grow, and will kill them. Persian walnuts are much better. What kinda pecan trees?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14210837


Nut trees are all out front.

Fruit trees, gardens, all other edible plants out back.

Up front only natural native vegetation, lawn that previous owners put in, and I just planted 10 pounds of habitat friendly flowers up front as well.
Anonymous Coward
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04/15/2012 11:45 PM
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Re: SHTF Orchard Planting in the Heartland
Don't see too much about the Northern James. TyTy and Stark Bro seem to sell it(Stark's hardy Giant). Most pecans need a pollinator, as they are either protandrous are protogynous, but not both, unless the nursery grafted both types onto the tree.

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