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ZetaTalk Again Exposed

 
Nancy Lieder & ZetaTalk
User ID: 32785
United States
11/19/2005 11:52 AM
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ZetaTalk Again Exposed
Dear Nancy Lieder,
Could you please explain the below listed statements from you/Zetas that are inconisitent with the truth or known facts:

"[the 2003 Nibiru panic] was planned by the Zetas (an extraterrestrial race), to provoke President Bush into a precipitous invasion of Iraq to secure the oil fields in advance of a Nibiru flyby.” - Nancy changes her story. May, 2005


"ZetaTalk and ZetaTalk alone has been found, in trial focus groups worldwide, to be a known and respected source of information" - Nancy Lieder, Kook.




"So, not only did we have all these live seismos go blank, during that period, but somebody let me know that HAARP magnometers or whatever they’re called, in Alaska, there’s several, where the N. Pole is, they read several emanations from the Sun and where the compasses are pointing and the like, kind of went wild, spiked at that time. "


Nancy´s kite goof is still in the Google
cach: [link to dont_use_this.com]


"Why do you listen to somebody who is rattling on, making claims, and it may be
or may not be valid. But what are they bringing forth. What the Zetas have said
since the start of 2002, because this is a field where people make a lot of wild
claims, and don´t necessarily come forth with anything behind it, and could be
just lying, for whatever personal reason. Can they predict, and do they have a
prediction accuracy track record. ZetaTalk has an excellent prediction accuracy
track record. You can say ´what about May 15, 2003´, but other than that, it´s
darn good, and there´s a reason for that date having been floated out there and
being wrong. So, we say, ´what are these other people do along those lines, what
evidence did they produce.´ If the evidence is zero, and they can´t predict,
they why should you even take them seriously whatsoever." - Nancy Lieder on Lou Gentile, Dec 23,2004



"The Earth´s dark twin, approaching from behind her, has scant
months to reach her and create a crisis. Earth stopping on Dec 25 allows
for a full half orbit by this twin by June 25, 2004, but the crisis
will occur sooner and for many reason. This twin cannot go to the left,
where Venus lies, nor the right, where Mars rides, and cannot move
forward. The effect of such a traffice jam is not within man´s
knowledgebank."

So she is saying that we will have a "crisis" with "Earth´s dark
twin" before June 25, 2004. Will she claim another "white lie"
when this date comes and goes without a problem?

"May all you blind idiots gurgle slowly as the flood tide rises, trapped as you lingered too long in your cushy pads and did not heed the warning. OR, alternatively, may you drop from exhaustion while trying to climb painfully to safety with one broken leg dangling uselessly. OR, alternatively, may you find yourself too weak from hunger to resist while your starving pet dog makes a meal of what remains of your flacid butt" -Nancy Lieder, Kook Supreme


"... We have given the correct dates for the return of the 12th Planet as the year 2003 for the devastating first pass. All other dates are incorrect." -- Nancy Lieder

--
"...So, I think if we continue to collect $4.10 for the CD set, etc, a hair over actual cost, we will generate any additional $100-$200 needed for the entire year[2004]!" - Nancy admits no Poleshift in 2004.

--.


"But truth is, you fucking asswipes, you´re going to die soon or at least want to die after PX hits. And I, for one, will be laughing at you from wherever I am, because the kind of fuckfaced arrogance you all exhibit needs to be wiped off this planet so it can breathe again.

Die, debunker/harasser scum ... die slowly and in great fear!!! "

Wee, Zetakook

--

"For those who think we abuse Nancy in this, she has been through this before with the Hale-Bopp issue, when we stated it was a comet that was being pointed to going into the 1997 grand show, but she was still under the assumption that it was going to be a no-show, and the famous May 15, 2003 White Lie wherein we did lie and she firmly believed the rotation stoppage and shift were imminent." - Nancy pretending to channel lying zetas.

--

I´m not the only one who has noticed that when you ask Nancy a straightforward question, she responds with dozens of lines of incomprehensible gibberish unrelated to your question.

Some psychiatrically challenged Zeta is channelling all this stuff to her. The data is corrupt at it´s source! That .verything. She is a mouthpiece for an interstellar street person.

I propose that we all ask Nancy to channel a different Zeta - hopefully one who doesn´t sleep outdoors on urine-soaked cardboard boxes many light-years away.

If we all do this, maybe she´ll listen and find someone "out there" who will help her, us, and the obviously psychotic Zeta she´s been enabling these many years.

Nancy, what do you say?

--


The original post in this thread has been a paid-for advertisement by Zetatalk®, and in no way resembles reality or truth. Names and persons portrayed and provided are fictional, and are not intended to assume that real persons have subscribed to the posted beliefs. Some names have been changed or falsified to protect the guilty. Although Troubled Times, Inc, is a non-profit organization, funds may be diverted at times to supplement board members incomes, personal property, or the religious indoctrination of new members of ZetaTalk by spamming, trolling, or posting white lies to the general public. The Treasurer of Troubled Times, Inc reserves the right to use donated funds as he/she sees fit, and for any purpose that may supplement his/her personal lifestyle.

Donations may be sent to
Nancy Lieder
Treasurer
Troubled Times, Inc.

Cash (preferred), Money Orders, and personal checks welcome. Make checks and money orders out to Nancy Lieder


All rights reserved, Zetatalk®

--

Please buy Nancy´s new book


"Zetatalk II: Misdirected Non-answers from the Zeta Reticuli People"

About the Author:
Nancy Lieder is an unemployed doomsday woo-woo who wrote ZetaTalk after awakening late in life to her paranoid schizophrenia status. She is the web mistress of the Zetatalk website and an officer of its failed nonprofit arm, Troubled Times, Inc. She was born and raised in Wisconsin, and returned there from California to start an ET cult after getting a sign from the Zeta Reticulans, an unwrapped Starburst candy at the bottom of a box. She is frequently seen in the media making an ass of herself, and has appeared on numerous morning FM radio shows as the brunt of typical FM morning show humour.


Book Description:
ZetaTalk is a grand compilation of white lies and bad science, communicated telepathically by teams of mental patients from Zeta Reticuli to their emissary, Nancy Lieder - a passionately credulous contactee that believes everything that the voices in her head tell her.

The Zetas provide misinformation on these topics and many others too foolish to list:

Bad science, poor astronomy, canibalism, pet murder, worm and bug eating, poor photography, failed prophecy, paranoia, hoaxing, mental illness, social incompatibility, Usenet spamming, forum trolling, non-profit fund scamming, avoiding audits, pseudoscience, question avoidance, and many other exciting topics that all cult leaders should be intimately aware of.

Available in paper back June 2004.

--
Psycho-analysis of Nancy Zeta
*OSIRIS*
9/10/2003
11:53 am EDT

Psycho-analysis of Nancy Zeta

Psycho-analysis of Nancy Zeta

Why does Nancy Lieder do what she does?
We all know she is shrewd business person, turning buck after buck selling salvation to naive people. But what I want to zero in on is how did it all start...the voices?

Does Nancy believe what she says?

The new-age channeling garbage gave hope to schizophrenics who hear voices. The shrinks say ofcourse, they are not mentally healthy. But the newage claptrap gives new found hope and meaning to the mentally challenged in the guise of offering salvation to the un-attuned masses. If, and I think Nancy really does, hear these voices,,,she wants to believe the voices she hears are actually external beings from another constellation. But, and she knows this, if these voices are internalized, coming from her own mind, she knows she´s fucked.

So Nancy holds on to the Zeta vision, hoping and praying that what the voices say, really come true. Then she can say she heard real voices of salvation. Nancy needs these voices to prove prophetically correct, just for her own safe well being. This is the reason she keeps holding on and believing this planet x nonsense...she´s hoping somehow, somewhere, planet x will show. Eventually, however, and that time is now, she will realize that she really is just mentally unstable.
This will be a huge blow to her big ego, and may pose disasterous results.
Once she realizes she has no power of the inner mechanisms of her mind, she may become very vulnerable to the darker voices which have already leaned heavily on her. She admits to animal sacrifice and the way she treats debunkers is very far from spiritual. I feel Nancy will become suicidal from her manic depression. So the bottom line is this: LET´S ALL HOPE THE WORLD ENDS BY PLANET X DESTROYING US ALL, THIS WAY NANCY WILL FEEL MUCH MUCH BETTER...

--
*Worldwide famines 2000, 2001, 2002
*Imploding cities
*Australia submerged
*Mag 15 earthquakes
*Hundreds of volcanos erupting
*Visible in scopes in 2002
*Mag 2 in 1996
*Hale Bopp not a comet
*Mag 11 in 2002
*Mag 20 in 2003
*Naked eye visible in March 2003 (Nancy saw it as did some posters here on GLP--we remember)
*Red Cross visible in sky by everyone in the world in April 2003
*A hail of meteorites and other debris in May 2003 creating worldwide firestorms
*Red Dust covering everything in May 2003
*Worldwide barter system prior to May 2003
*Satellites flying out of orbit
*Telecommunications almost completely disrupted
*Martial law
*Iraq not allowed to be invaded
*No Regime change in Iraq
*Political leaders evacuate to Mars
*Pole Shift in 2003
*Rotation stops May 2003
*Pole Shift May 15 2003
*Pole Shift May 23 2003
*Pole Shift June 2003
*Pole Shift July 2003
*Weeks NOT months
*Pole Shift August-Sept. 2003
*Occultation of Jupiter by the moon in dec 2004 not to happen as expected
*ISS astronauts dead within weeks - Dec 10, 2004.

--

Here Nancy - Consider your record:

1) Crop failures 2000, 2001,2002 - Worldwide famines

2) Imploding cities prior to passage 2003

3) Islands sinking with their population prior to passage 2003

4) Oceans inundate coastal cities prior to passage May 2003

5) Refugee camps set up prior to passage May 2003

6) Hundreds of volcanoes erupting prior to passage May 2003

7) Increased Earthquakes prior to passage May 2003

8) Worldwide economic depression prior to passage May 2003

9) Worldwide barter system prior to passage May 2003

10) Price controls instituted prior to passage May 2003

11) Satellites flying out of orbit and malfunctioning prior to passage May 2003

12) Telecommunications almost completely disrupted prior to passage May 2003

13) Red Dust covering everything prior to rotation stoppage in May 2003

14) Iraq: No regime change

15) The Moon does not rotate

16) Hale Bopp not a comet

17) "White Lie #1" about Hale Bopp

18) Political leaders evacuate (not allowed to go to mars - what a hoot!)

19) Mag 2 in 1996

20) Mag 11 in 2001 (it seems to be heading out of the solar system)

21) Visible to all amateur scopes in 2002

22) Mag 20 in 2003 (yep, definitely heading out of the solar system)

23) Naked eye visible in March 2003 (must have turned around. Nancy saw it as did some posters here on GLP--we remember)

24) Red Cross visible in sky by everyone in the world in April 2003

25) Australia submerged during the Pole Shift May 2003

26) Mag 15 earthquakes during the Pole Shift May 2003

27) An hail of meteorites and other debris in May 2003 creating worldwide firestorms during the Pole Shift

28) Rotation stops May 2003

29) Pole Shift May 15 2003

30) Pole Shift May 27 2003

31) "White Lie #2" about Pole Shift

32) Pole Shift June 2003

33) Pole Shift July 2003

34) "Weeks NOT Months"

35) Pole Shift August-Sept. 2003

36) Pole Shift and Precursors Dec. 25-30, 2003.

37) Pole Shift in 2003

38) "Zetas 100% accurate" - Nancy Lieder

And Even More

The world was supposed to end on May 15th 2003 when a brown dwarf passed through the solar system causing catastrophic upheaval and killing 90% of life on Earth. Though it did not happen, this so-called "Planet X" may still represent a danger to life and livelihood.

To some skeptics, the belief in "Planet X" has taken on the nature of a cult religion, and one of the belief´s main advocates, Nancy Lieder, seems to have a Messiah Complex. An overview of the tenets of what is referred to as "Zetacult" as well as statements and actions by Ms. Lieder shows clear evidence of this occurring.

Zetatalk, a word used for Ms. Lieder´s agenda, web site and her persona when she supposedly channels aliens from Zeta Reticuli started in 1995. What has developed since then is far from warmed over Velikovsky, and it is possible that a handful to thousands have embraced her apocalyptic vision. Therein lies the potential for tragedy. Some cults, like Jehovah´s Witnesses survive the passing of a set date for doomsday. Some, like Heaven´s Gate don´t. At the very least there is the possibility of lasting psychological damage to believers realizing they´ve been duped.

Zetatalk as cult religion

UFO religions and cults are classified as such because they have replaced an incorporeal deity with aliens who serve the same purpose. Other UFO movements have inculcated other religious motifs such as agents of evil, a creative or apocalyptic narrative and a "heaven" or better life at some point. As seen with Heaven´s Gate, these tenets can be deadly.

A god who is "up there somewhere," who cares about Earthlings, has power and knowledge far beyond ours and is looking out for us has been replaced in the Zetacult by the Zetas who are the inhabitants of Zeta Reticuli.

Agents of evil who known as demons or heretics are manifested in Zetacult by government officials and astronomers who are part of a cabal to prevent the "good news" of Planet X from getting out. To believers, NASA is the devil.

An apocalyptical "end time," such as Ragnarok or the events in Revelation occur for the Zetacult when Planet X arrives. A new world is promised to believers who follow the salvation plan offered by the Zetas.

Religious sacred texts contain tenets, methods of salvation or describe the actions (including battles with the enemy) of deities and messiahs. For Zetacult, the texts are easily accessible at www.zetatalk.com. Tenets of faith about Ms. Lieder, Planet X and the Zetas, words of wisdom on a variety of spiritual and scientific topics, methods of surviving Planet Xs arrival so that you can live in the "heaven" of the post arrival world and transcripts of Ms. Lieder´s battles with the demons (transcripts of IRC chats with astronomers and skeptics) are all available there.

Prophecy or future sight is used by many religions to demonstrate the higher knowledge of god. Adherents then wait for fulfillment (sometimes with very tortured logic or thin evidence) to proclaim the "truth" of their religion because their god knew of future events. Zetatalk.com has a page dedicated to supposed fulfillments of Ms Lieder´s Zeta channeled prophecies demonstrating the higher knowledge of the Zeta gods.

Similar to prophecy are signs and wonders that supposedly demonstrate the truth of a religions tenets or as a demonstration that the end times are immanent. Zetatalk.com includes photos of Planet X that are either fakes or mistakes. Ms. Lieder is also making claims about earthquakes and weather phenomena to prove the Planet X end times is upon us.

Much like Catholic and Orthodox Christianity or Sunni and Shiia Islam, Zetacult endured a schism between Ms. Lieder and a man named Mark Hazlewood. Amid accusations of money-making schemes and copyright violations the two split and are now trying position themselves as the inheritor of Planet X truth.

Cults often develop a siege mentality and seek to isolate themselves from influences that might interfere with total adherence to cult dogma. Zetacult isolationism is primarily intellectual and seen mainly in their on-line presence. Believers heavily moderate and censor chat sessions and message boards and skeptics or dissenting opinions are removed just for asking questions.

Cults and fringe sects of religion, such as Young Earth Creationists follow a simple credo - Science is bad, Revealed Knowledge is good. This credo is at the heart of the Zetacult. It doesn´t matter what some PhD is telling you. It doesn´t matter what some amature skywatcher with her own 8 inch telescope tells you. It doesn´t matter what mathematicians, astronomers, geologists or meteorologists are telling you. All that matters is Ms. Lieder´s revelations from the Zetas.

Cults have charismatic leaders who get the good news out, recruit believers, do battle with agents of evil and tell followers exactly how to live their lives. Some like Marshall Applewhite and David Koresh see themselves as messianic figures. This next section will show that Nancy Lieder sees herself to be one as well.
Nancy Lieder as Messiah

Ambitious people, out to save or change the world, have often seen themselves as historical figures. Some of them have crossed a threshold and begin to see themselves as divine agents or as deities themselves. The results have largely depended on circumstances and the levels of power attained by these individuals. In Alexander the great, the results were, unless one was Persian, generally neutral or positive. In Hitler they were devastating on a massive scale. With Messrs. Applewhite and Koresh tragedies occurred, but on a much smaller scale. Some of Ms. Lieder´s claims put her in league with these last two, but luckily she doesn´t have her believers ensconced in a compound. Keeping in mind the cult/religious aspects of Zetatalk, an analysis of these claims clearly shows a messianic mindset.

She claims to be a "chosen one of the Zeta gods."

She claims to have exclusive access and to speak for the Zeta gods.

She claims to be able to deliver humanity from the Planet X end times.

She claims to be fighting against agents of evil that are out to spread disinformation and prevent the populace from accepting Zetacult´s truth.

Like Osiris, Bohidarma, Jesus and other message bringers, she claims to have suffered or gone through a trail to become the chosen one.
This quote is from the May 13, 2003 edition of Coast to Coast AM with George Noory:

"Because we could rely on her at this point in time. Uh, after years of, of intense pressure, um, ah, trying to gut her, ah, from every angle that affects a human being, um, to, ah, give up, walk away, um, close down her psyche, alter her message, um, make mistakes, uh, we could rely on her not to do that…"
In addition to her transformative ordeal, she sees herself as a social or intellectual martyr for her cause, and expresses a willingness to be physically martyred as well.

She sees herself as emulating historical characters and that she´ll be thought of as one as well. Again, from the May 13, 2003 Coast to Coast AM:
"I am Joan of Arc and Mother Theresa in essence…"
The Joan of Arc reference is a clear attempt to reinforce her martyr image as well.

She claims to the gift of prophecy though revelations made to her when she channels the Zetas.

She has an entire web site and publishing company dedicated to telling believers how to live their lives and what they must (move to safe area, euthanize pets) in order to make it through the Planet X end times.
It matters

People who argue against nonsense have many reasons for doing so. Some altruistically try and help their fellow man avoid being scammed out of money or pride while others just want to rid the world of kooks and kooky ideas. One of the most altruistic efforts a skeptic can make is trying to stop someone from ruining their lives or worse yet committing suicide over bogus beliefs like Planet X and the Zetacult. The arrival date for Planet X has passed, but the time for confronting Zetatalk and Nancy Lieder has not.
Here Are Some More Question (OP)
User ID: 32785
United States
11/19/2005 11:56 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: ZetaTalk Again Exposed
The world was supposed to end on May 15th 2003 when a brown dwarf passed through the solar system causing catastrophic upheaval and killing 90% of life on Earth. Though it did not happen, this so-called "Planet X" may still represent a danger to life and livelihood.

To some skeptics, the belief in "Planet X" has taken on the nature of a cult religion, and one of the belief´s main advocates, Nancy Lieder, seems to have a Messiah Complex. An overview of the tenets of what is referred to as "Zetacult" as well as statements and actions by Ms. Lieder shows clear evidence of this occurring.

Zetatalk, a word used for Ms. Lieder´s agenda, web site and her persona when she supposedly channels aliens from Zeta Reticuli started in 1995. What has developed since then is far from warmed over Velikovsky, and it is possible that a handful to thousands have embraced her apocalyptic vision. Therein lies the potential for tragedy. Some cults, like Jehovah´s Witnesses survive the passing of a set date for doomsday. Some, like Heaven´s Gate don´t. At the very least there is the possibility of lasting psychological damage to believers realizing they´ve been duped.

Zetatalk as cult religion

UFO religions and cults are classified as such because they have replaced an incorporeal deity with aliens who serve the same purpose. Other UFO movements have inculcated other religious motifs such as agents of evil, a creative or apocalyptic narrative and a "heaven" or better life at some point. As seen with Heaven´s Gate, these tenets can be deadly.

A god who is "up there somewhere," who cares about Earthlings, has power and knowledge far beyond ours and is looking out for us has been replaced in the Zetacult by the Zetas who are the inhabitants of Zeta Reticuli.

Agents of evil who known as demons or heretics are manifested in Zetacult by government officials and astronomers who are part of a cabal to prevent the "good news" of Planet X from getting out. To believers, NASA is the devil.

An apocalyptical "end time," such as Ragnarok or the events in Revelation occur for the Zetacult when Planet X arrives. A new world is promised to believers who follow the salvation plan offered by the Zetas.

Religious sacred texts contain tenets, methods of salvation or describe the actions (including battles with the enemy) of deities and messiahs. For Zetacult, the texts are easily accessible at www.zetatalk.com. Tenets of faith about Ms. Lieder, Planet X and the Zetas, words of wisdom on a variety of spiritual and scientific topics, methods of surviving Planet Xs arrival so that you can live in the "heaven" of the post arrival world and transcripts of Ms. Lieder´s battles with the demons (transcripts of IRC chats with astronomers and skeptics) are all available there.

Prophecy or future sight is used by many religions to demonstrate the higher knowledge of god. Adherents then wait for fulfillment (sometimes with very tortured logic or thin evidence) to proclaim the "truth" of their religion because their god knew of future events. Zetatalk.com has a page dedicated to supposed fulfillments of Ms Lieder´s Zeta channeled prophecies demonstrating the higher knowledge of the Zeta gods.

Similar to prophecy are signs and wonders that supposedly demonstrate the truth of a religions tenets or as a demonstration that the end times are immanent. Zetatalk.com includes photos of Planet X that are either fakes or mistakes. Ms. Lieder is also making claims about earthquakes and weather phenomena to prove the Planet X end times is upon us.

Much like Catholic and Orthodox Christianity or Sunni and Shiia Islam, Zetacult endured a schism between Ms. Lieder and a man named Mark Hazlewood. Amid accusations of money-making schemes and copyright violations the two split and are now trying position themselves as the inheritor of Planet X truth.

Cults often develop a siege mentality and seek to isolate themselves from influences that might interfere with total adherence to cult dogma. Zetacult isolationism is primarily intellectual and seen mainly in their on-line presence. Believers heavily moderate and censor chat sessions and message boards and skeptics or dissenting opinions are removed just for asking questions.

Cults and fringe sects of religion, such as Young Earth Creationists follow a simple credo - Science is bad, Revealed Knowledge is good. This credo is at the heart of the Zetacult. It doesn´t matter what some PhD is telling you. It doesn´t matter what some amature skywatcher with her own 8 inch telescope tells you. It doesn´t matter what mathematicians, astronomers, geologists or meteorologists are telling you. All that matters is Ms. Lieder´s revelations from the Zetas.

Cults have charismatic leaders who get the good news out, recruit believers, do battle with agents of evil and tell followers exactly how to live their lives. Some like Marshall Applewhite and David Koresh see themselves as messianic figures. This next section will show that Nancy Lieder sees herself to be one as well.
Nancy Lieder as Messiah

Ambitious people, out to save or change the world, have often seen themselves as historical figures. Some of them have crossed a threshold and begin to see themselves as divine agents or as deities themselves. The results have largely depended on circumstances and the levels of power attained by these individuals. In Alexander the great, the results were, unless one was Persian, generally neutral or positive. In Hitler they were devastating on a massive scale. With Messrs. Applewhite and Koresh tragedies occurred, but on a much smaller scale. Some of Ms. Lieder´s claims put her in league with these last two, but luckily she doesn´t have her believers ensconced in a compound. Keeping in mind the cult/religious aspects of Zetatalk, an analysis of these claims clearly shows a messianic mindset.

She claims to be a "chosen one of the Zeta gods."

She claims to have exclusive access and to speak for the Zeta gods.

She claims to be able to deliver humanity from the Planet X end times.

She claims to be fighting against agents of evil that are out to spread disinformation and prevent the populace from accepting Zetacult´s truth.

Like Osiris, Bohidarma, Jesus and other message bringers, she claims to have suffered or gone through a trail to become the chosen one.
This quote is from the May 13, 2003 edition of Coast to Coast AM with George Noory:

"Because we could rely on her at this point in time. Uh, after years of, of intense pressure, um, ah, trying to gut her, ah, from every angle that affects a human being, um, to, ah, give up, walk away, um, close down her psyche, alter her message, um, make mistakes, uh, we could rely on her not to do that…"
In addition to her transformative ordeal, she sees herself as a social or intellectual martyr for her cause, and expresses a willingness to be physically martyred as well.

She sees herself as emulating historical characters and that she´ll be thought of as one as well. Again, from the May 13, 2003 Coast to Coast AM:
"I am Joan of Arc and Mother Theresa in essence…"
The Joan of Arc reference is a clear attempt to reinforce her martyr image as well.

She claims to the gift of prophecy though revelations made to her when she channels the Zetas.

She has an entire web site and publishing company dedicated to telling believers how to live their lives and what they must (move to safe area, euthanize pets) in order to make it through the Planet X end times.
It matters

People who argue against nonsense have many reasons for doing so. Some altruistically try and help their fellow man avoid being scammed out of money or pride while others just want to rid the world of kooks and kooky ideas. One of the most altruistic efforts a skeptic can make is trying to stop someone from ruining their lives or worse yet committing suicide over bogus beliefs like Planet X and the Zetacult.

The arrival date for Planet X has passed, but the time for confronting Zetatalk and Nancy Lieder has not!

And Some More:

Those predictions that failed, are covered up or ignored, such as the "slowing Earth rotation" that the Zetas predicted. It´s a known fact that the Earth´s rotational period is slowing, however, the Zetas claimed extreme decreases as "Planet X" approaches, ending with a complete stop. Nothing has been noticed, so Nancy avoids the subject.

World wide famine, extreme increases in food prices, increased earthquake and volcanic activity, etc, etc., all claimed for 2001, never came to pass - even now in 2002. Nancy´s claim of accurate predictions is covered by "The government controlled media was told not to report on such things", or "the powers that be have covered up these incidents so the average man is not aware" (failing satellites, cable TV, radio and cell phone failures, droughts, famine and sightings).

One of her most recent claims is that the US Geological Survey is intentionally rating Earthquakes "down" to smaller richter scales. She had to go for that one, Volcanoes are hard to hide, as are tornadoes and hurricanes - such as:

"As the traditional tornado season comes to an end this month, tornado
activity in the United States has remained low, according to NOAA´s
National Weather Service. The unofficial count of 451 tornadoes
reported by July 24 is half of the 10-year average of 914 tornadoes
and the lowest mid-year count since 1988, said officials at the
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), an agency of
the Commerce Department."

[link to www.publicaffairs.noaa.gov]

and Atlantic Hurricanes: 1996-9, 1997-3, 1998-10, 1999-8, 2000-6, 2001-8, 2002-so far, 0

NOAA: 2002 Atlantic Hurricane Outlook
Issued: 8 August 2002
SUMMARY

"Due to the strengthening El Niño in the equatorial Pacific the 2002
Atlantic hurricane season is expected to feature normal to below
normal overall activity, according to a consensus of scientists at the
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration´s (NOAA) Climate
Prediction Center (CPC), Hurricane Research Division (HRD), and
National Hurricane Center (NHC)."

[link to www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov]


See now, that´s disinformation, there were really more than 600 more "other" tornadoes that occured, the government is just covering it up.

Nancy claimed that Planet X was a mag 2 naked eye object in 1995, and claimed that amateur astronomers were conspiring to cover up it´s existance - they could see it, they just refused to admit it. She made those statements right here on sci.astro, accusing astronomers of a cover-up. Now, 7 years later, it´s no where to be found (except as a known faint mag 20 star on a 20 minute CCD image)

Pretty easy to claim 100% accuracy when you also make the claim that no one can verify whether you´re right or wrong.

When everything you see, hear, smell, touch, taste, read or write is a cover up, conspiracy or disinformation, everyone´s predictions become correct - even those that predict the complete opposite of Nancy.

Nancy´s accuracy claims are pure hogwash, nothing more, nothing less.
The Grand Conspiracy (OP)
User ID: 32785
United States
11/19/2005 11:59 AM
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Re: ZetaTalk Again Exposed
ZetaTalk : The Grand Conspiracy

First off, we should define what we mean by "grand conspiracy". A grand conspiracy is an often complex interweaving of various previously existing conspiracies in the attempt to both explain all of these theories and support a NEW conspiracy.

The main advantage to a grand conspiracy is that most of the underlaying "evidence" has already been well documented by numerous sources in public forums. The main disadvantage to these grand conspiracies is the old adage "a chain is only as strong as it´s weakest link". If any one of the underlaying conspiracy theories is found to be patently false, then everything else unravels. This disadvantage becomes particularly important when the verbage of the grand conspiracy in question is cast in absolute terms.

ZetaTalk was once the "mother" of grand conspiracy theories

What remains of ZetaTalk clearly speaks for itself and needs no .re -- visit the website. The "information" on ZetaTalk was cast in strictly absolute terms. Nancy Lieder, owner of the website, stated repeatedly that there could be no errors, inaccuracies or lies presented in it´s material. In a rather voluminous amount of text, the website incorporated nearly every conspiracy theory of modern times and several from the last century. The main concept to this website was that we were soon to be visited by a worldwide cataclysmic event sometime in late May early June of 2003. The reader was encouraged by the overwhelming amount of text on the ZetaTalk website to make a "leap of faith" in believing the message of the Zetas. By design, the website seems to have presented more material than was necessary to support its message of cataclysm.
Preserving the grand conspiracy past 2003

It was apparent, even by ZetaTalk´s own admission that the website would not be available to the public after the summer of 2003. Therefore, the website has been archived for the purpose of compiling an online documentary which will chronicle the nearly 8 years lifespan of this phenomena. How ZetaTalk came to be, who felt compelled to become involved, and most importantly the political and social effects it may have had on society at large.
Taking a closer look at just a few of ZetaTalk´s "weakest links"
Richard Hoagland and the "face on mars"

From ZetaTalk :

"There is speculation that the Face on Mars and nearby pyramids were used as astronomical markers, and this was indeed their prime purpose."

"Mars today is a dead planet, but in the recent past this was not the case, as evidenced by the weathered structures on Mars reminiscent of the Great Pyramids and the Sphinx"


Here ZetaTalk sank itself with the statement confirming that Hoagland´s "Face On Mars" is real. However, Hoagland´s folly was debunked by NASA photography 3 years after ZetaTalk banked their credibility on his claims.


And what was Nancy Lieder´s official response to a former member of her Yahoo discussion group tt-watch who raised this same contradiction? See below.

"Sorry, but ZetaTalk is ZetaTalk, in other words, their words, and this does
not get changed. In fact, there are varrying OPINIONS about Moon/Mars, and
I for one find many of the photos and the like compelling, and have heard
Hoagland speak, etc. It´s a worthy subject in my, Nancy´s opinion. In any
group as large as TT, there will be many differing opinions, of course, and
this TOPIC has many many fans." (from tt-watch, Wed Jul 5, 2000 12:23 pm)

So, with this statement Nancy Lieder seems to say that ZetaTalk is not about accuracy, but is about pleasing the unsubstantiated opinions of its "many many fans".

Also, interesting to note : Nancy stated that she had heard Hoagland speak and implied that his theories have a worthy air of legitimacy. But, the real mystery is why the supposed "emmisary" to a race of super-advanced and infallable alien visitors would need to listen to the phony drivel conjured up by the likes of Richard Hoagland. And, what do opinions have to do with supposed intractable statements of fact made by these aliens?


Planet X : The Video, $20 plus shipping and handling

A profit motive began to emerge when a website was established to sell $20 videos spreading the cataclysmic message found in ZetaTalk. The Planet X Video website claimed "All guests interviewed, did so without financial gain", but what is not clear is how this claim can possibly be true when Sepehr himself was reaping financial gain. The suspicion was that at least some of the money flowed from "Planet X Video" to Nancy Lieder, operator of ZetaTalk. It is also interesting to note that the claimed producer of the Planet X Video, Robert Sepehr had been supposedly "researching" the evidence of Planet X for the same amount of time ZetaTalk had been in existence -- 8 years. Hardly a coincidence, as Sepehr became enamored with Nancy Lieder and ZetaTalk during the spring/summer of 2000. (Domain Info)


ZetaTalk : The Book, $14.95 plus shipping and handling

Another profit motive came directly from Nancy Lieder in the form of a book. Sold on Amazon.com for $14.95 new and $11.95 used. ZetaTalk : Direct Answers From The Zeta Reticuli People. Clearly this book was direct profit flow to Nancy.

ZetaTalk : The Video, $30 book and video combo (video alone $20) plus $5 shipping and handling in the US or $10 for overseas shipping and handling.

(see full advertisement on www.zetatalk.com for order details)


ZetaTalk Inaccuracies -- In Depth




ZetaTalk Wrong Concerning "Chandra Levy Case"

On a live radio program in New York in 2001, ZetaTalk stated that Congressman Gary Condit´s missing intern Chandra Levy was actually in Mexico with a case of amnesia. Unfortunately, her body was found in a Washington D.C. park in May 2002.

Zeta´s wrong again!

Nancy Bent For Art Bell

A short time prior to announcing on her tt-news yahoo group that she would appear on The Art Bell Show, Nancy Lieder modified her anti-hazlewood page to delete previous comments scolding Bell for allowing Mark Hazlewood to "fleece the populace in this way!". It was interesting to see how ZetaTalk´s official statement concerning Art Bell came into play during the late night interview. Both "pre-interview" pages are linked above. Also, see Nancy´s later ZetaTalk claiming that Art Bell screens all of his calls in order to serve U.S. intelligence agencies.

Nancy differed with "zetas" on when PX could be seen...

It become obvious from Nancy Lieder´s statements made during the June 8, 2002 ZetaTalk IRC session that the "Nancy" view of Planet X differed in a large way from the "Zeta" view. Witness the linked discussion from the sci.astro newsgroup.

Nancy began to exhibit signs of progressive mental breakdown...

On July 14, 2002 Nancy Lieder posted 3 messages to the sci.astro astronomy newsgroup titled "Planet X : Run and HIDE!". Coming close on the heels of her July 13 ZetaTalk IRC session in which Nancy called for action against an amateur astronomer and chat participant "IMO", these paranoid newsgroup postings seem to indicate that the cracks in Nancy´s sanity had, in fact, grown. This snap in Nancy´s sanity could be observed most readily by comparing the more recent attacks on "IMO" linked above, to her past discussions with "IMO" which sympathize with him and praise him in his honest efforts.


The Skeptical Journal contains the newest site additions and conspiracy rantings...

Sapphire has created the Skeptical Journal to publish the latest additions to this website, including the personal observations and notes of his ongoing research into the ZetaTalk phenomenon. Guest authors are also likely to drop in from time to time...

February 2005 -- Sapphire continues the ZetaTalk watch at the Crystal Orb Weblog
More Observations (OP)
User ID: 32785
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11/19/2005 12:02 PM
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Re: ZetaTalk Again Exposed
First off I´ve been following Zeta IRC with great interest, (Hi Howmo
great session). Especially the arguments concerning Sci-astro
debunking and invasion of the chat group. I would therefore for the
benefit of those coming from the TT-groups like to point out that it
was Nancy who first invaded Sci-astro with her attempts to force
opinion on the invisible twelfth planet. Similarly disrupting TT-
Watch with her incessant rating´s updating a totally uninterested
membership on the subject.


She continually disrupt the science groups with her own particular
brand of hit and run tactics, never answering even the few serious
questions that do pop up then acts all innocent when the likes of IMO
and Howmo invade her pathetic sideshow on the IRC, simply to try and
get answers from the only public source that she frequents. She
should be grateful that those on sci-astro are more tolerant than her
own jack boot disciples on TT. She´d have been banned a long time ago
had the same rules applied, but then that would simply have fuelled
her conspiracy argument.

I´d also now like to show the reality of what is being touted as that
wondrous Zeta accuracy. (For those who have seen it my apologies. For
those already tired of it, again my apologies. For anyone interested
bare with me there´s a lot.)

[link to www.zetatalk.com]

2001 Predictions:


"In January, 2001 ZetaTalk stated their 2001 Predictions, and by
June, 2001 a close match was noted:

An overall phrase to describe 2001 will be that things are getting
shaky. Earthquakes increasing in frequency and intensity, and storm
damage continues so that insurance companies will begin to falter and
fail if not bolstered by government intervention. The weather is
becoming more erratic so that any attempt to pretend that crop
shortages are not occurring,worldwide, is no longer possible. Food
prices will rise or there will be shortages in the stores, unless
governments step in with price freezes and forced disbursal of goods
to the populace. Starvation, already occurring in many countries,
will increase, but the starving will have less of a voice as time
goes on, and be increasingly ignored."

Since 2001 there has been no substantial increase in Earthquake
magnitude or frequency. Admittedly the weather is shaky, but there
are no signs of shortages in most of the civilized world. Prices have
not increased and the same counties find themselves as usual in
trouble. Hardly anything out of the ordinary.

A prediction is defined in the English Oxford dictionary as a
prophesy: the foretelling of future events. Unfortunately the
statements made by the Zeta´s are on the whole not new, either that
or have simply not actually come to fruition. Indeed at its basic the
Zeta´s themselves are not an original concept. Barney and Betty Hill
can hold claim to that. Nancy´s efforts simply another attempt to
jump on their bandwagon. Even the STO/STS belief system is based on a
much older religion with roots in concepts as diverse as Star Wars
etc.

AIDS:

"Prior to July, 1995 Zetatalk stated that the Origin of AIDS, while
deliberately Perpetrated, was through the ingestion of infected blood
due to dietary customs in Africa, not immunization. On February 5,
1999, headline news announced that the origin of HIV was from chimps
hunted for food."

Thorough research shows that they knew about AIDS as far back as the
1950´s. Although its origins were from the African Continent it
didn´t become headline news until it reached the West in later years.
But research had obviously been on going from its discovery back
then. (It doesn´t take a genius to read back issues of medical
journals.)

Albinos:

"In June, 1996 ZetaTalk stated that albinos such as the White Buffalo
would be on the increase. There have been increasing reports of such
occurences in wildlife, starting in China, then Australia and North
America."


If true where are these increasing freaks of nature? Where are the
startling figures showing irrefutable proof of this terrific
increase. Any good natural history expert will tell you that albinos
are rare but no longer considered outstanding. In fact they happen
all the time among the myriads of varying species on the planet. The
numbers have certainly not increased dramatically over recent years,
only natural habitat invasion and the increase in reporting these
discoveries has.



Animal Illness:

"On Mar 15, 1999 ZetaTalk stated in the 1999 Predictions increased
illness would be experienced in animal populations as the 12th Planet
approached. On Jan 20, 2000 it was reported that infectious diseases
were on the increase worldwide among wildlife."

Same as before. Research has been going on for years. Well before
1999, certainly in Europe, where most of the stock diseases
originated, which I might add were caused and carried by man. Yet
there´s not one shred of evidence supporting any extrastellar
influence. (But then I´ve noticed most of the evidence seems to be US
based and not a good reflection of the world at large.)

Area 51:

"On August, 1995 ZetaTalk stated that space ships sighted at Area 51
had been loaned to the military, but the secrets of how they operated
withheld from the military, and in September, 1995 that Bob Lazar was
telling a true tale in this regard. Documented interviews with Bob
Lazar, below, support these statements."

Guess this one speaks for itself and from a guy that has no
scientific background, (conveniently deleted by some government
conspiracy), so confused that he has difficulty remembering which
years he spent at whatever university. Plus there´s not one shred of
proof to support anything he has ever said.

Assassinations:

"In April, 1996 ZetaTalk stated that Silencing Methods included
killing Commerce Secretary Ron Brown and disguising the assassination
in a plane crash; in December, 1997, the Drudge Report stated that on
autopsy, Ron Brown was found to have been killed by a bullet to the
head, and this fact covered up, and the Conspiracy Archive states the
many reasons."

Everyone knows about black ops and hidden agendas these days.
Hollywood churns them out on a regular basis, but then why the hell
should these unscrupulous individuals bother putting a .45 slug in
the head of a man that was going to end up in an air crash? Didn´t
they think it much easier and far more credible to break his neck
instead? Doubt anyone would have noticed one more broken bone among
so many. Unless they wanted to make a public statement. (Although in
Nancy´s scenario its becoming obvious that these assassin types are
not very intelligent these , their stupidity never ending as they
leave a trail of evidence for the following forensic investigations
to discover therefore adding credence to the conspiracy. Yet why did
they bother at all and just simply silence the investigation?)

Attack on America:

"Shortly after September 11, 2001, ZetaTalk stated that the Attack on
America was aided by the British, who wanted to undercut the US Stock
Market and the US government´s financial position, predicting that
the World Trade Center devastation had devastated JP Morgan. This was
posted within days of the attack on the tt-watch mailing list and
sci.astro Usenet. Increasingly, over the next few months, reports of
JP Morgan´s developing problems were reported."

Not one shred of proof. They´d have been better predicting the event
rather than the following conspiracy. Besides all conspiracy evidence
points to everyone other than J.P Morgan, you´re the only one
spouting his connection. But then you´ll probably find the black
minority, gay rights activists responsible somewhere on the net .

Australian Artifacts:

"On October 15, 1996 ZetaTalk stated that artifacts in Australia were
similar to Egyptian and Chinese pyramids, the handiword of the giant
hominoids from the 12th Planet. The May/June, 1998 issue of Science
Frontiers documents the atypical nature and age of these artifacts,
and Exposure Magazine documented the relationship to Egyptian
artifacts."

The Wandjina paintings were discovered in 1837 by the English
explorer George Grey. Hardly a revelation in 1996 and proof of
nothing extraterrestrial. Try asking the Zeta´s for info before the
discovery, then you´ll have a real prediction.

Bank Supports:

"In November, 1999 ZetaTalk stated that Bank Supports would be used
to prevent a market crash or public awareness of instability, as long
as possible. By September, 2000 evidence of this worldwide support
effort among central banks was reported."

Hardly stunning. Isn´t that what banks do - lend money? Or is every
transaction now a conspiracy? Besides since when did Earth´s finance
become such an alien obsession. Seems that´s all they can go on about
these day´s. Especially when considering the 12th is just around the
corner. I´d have thought that perhaps the co-ordinates were of
greater importance. But then none of it makes sense as money will
serve little use after a cataclysm, except perhaps for starting fires
or melting down the basic metals. What do the elite propose to do
after the shift eat it? Perhaps use it to pay its mercenary forces?
Seriously doubt they´d have much use for it though with nothing to
spend it on. So why the urgency to collect all these ill gotten
gains? Preparation? I doubt even these particular individuals really
believe all the money in the world will save them.

Barter System:

"In early December, 2001 ZetaTalk stated that a Barter System would
begin to replace currency, due to currency instability. By February,
2002 this was reported in Argentina."

Here we go again, more finance. Yet the banks have been talking about
replacing the monetary system for electronic currency for years. What
are credit cards if not, at its basis, a similar barter system?

Bigfoot:

"Prior to July, 1995 ZetaTalk stated that Bigfoot exists but is
quarantined from man, and is thus elusive. On December 22, 1999 Field
and Stream magazine confirmed Bigfoot´s existence, and the Fortean
Times and California Sightings list have documented its elusiveness"

One of my favourites. Of course everyone has their own pet Yeti these
days. So no one gives a second thought to proving their actual
existence.

Big Bang and Black Holes:

"Prior to July, 1995, ZetaTalk stated that Big Bangs were a local
event, combined with Black Holes as a renewal agent in the Universe.
During the 2001 sci.astro debates, it was pointed out that an article
in the May, 2001 Smithsonian Magazine pointed to just that."

Destroyed by Sci-astro. I´m no expert, but I´m pretty sure that most
will agree that there is no definitive proof that the big bang
theory, local or galactic are the true origins of the universe.
Indeed I believe there are some who would argue strongly against it.

Billy Meier:

"Prior to July, 1995 ZetaTalk stated that Billy Meier was a genuine
contactee, who took to exaggerating. On Dec 29, 1999, Billy Meier´s
son stated that opinions differed even within his own family."

Billy Meier, now were really scraping the barrel. Is there anyone who
actually believes this guy?


Bin Laden:



"During the Mar 16, 2002 Live ZetaTalk IRC Session, the Zetas stated:

(NancyL) ZT: The War on Terrorism is a loss, Bin Laden not only not
dead but his network hardly damaged, as renewed activity on the
terrorists part will soon reveal.

On March 25, 2002 CNN reported a new email from Bin Laden, confirmed
to be in his writing style and considered by the intel organization
to be a living Bin Laden, condeming the most recent failure of Israel
and Palestinian negotiations. Bin Laden alive and well!"

Dead or alive? Can anyone say yet? But where is this renewed activity
the Zeta´s predicted as "soon" back in March?

Blaming the Sun:

"In July, 1998 ZetaTalk stated that the Sun and Solar Flares will be
used as an Excuse for the increasingly erratic weather as the 12th
Planet approaches. On July 22, 1999, NASA stated just that."

Well guess that´s been blown out of the water as the facts stated on
the site are from 1999 and as recent topics on TT have shown solar
activity is down not up. (The only one who seems interested in solar
activity appears to be Mitch Battros someone not very welcome on TT
for his attack on Nancy.) Besides since when do all mobile phones use
satellites? Aren´t the majority reliant on those ugly, monstrous
radio masts, broadcasting from ground and land line systems? So how
are we going to notice any effect? Only military and isolated
locations rely on orbital systems. I think we´d need a lot more
satellites whizzing around up there to handle all the global
communication traffic.

Booms:

"On June 15, 1996 ZetaTalk stated that Booms would become more common
and occur even inland as the 12th Planet approached. By March 15,
1999 these mystery booms were being reported, followed by reports
from Ohio, Georgia, Atlanta and Alabama."

The concept isn´t new although no one seems to know or at least can
prove what they are.

Brazilian Roswell:

"On July 15, 1996 ZetaTalk stated that an incident in Varginha,
Brazil was designed by the aliens who allowed the crash to occur to
be similar to the Roswell incident, to further the Awakening.
Subsequent reports coming forth from Brazil document the similarity
of the two incidents."

Science fiction, conspiracy. No proof of anything.

Cataclysm Masks:

"In January, 1998 ZetaTalk stated that the Solar Flares would be used
as a cover-up for the approaching cataclysms, and again in July, 1998
included the sun in a list of False Alarms the goverment would use.
On Dec 14, 1999 these false claims reached an extreme with a claim
that the Solar Wind had disappeared for 3 days, and later news
reports cast doubts on the sun as a culprit."

Basically a repeat of "Blaming the sun" Both Nancy and the Zeta´s
like to hear their own voice.

Cattle Mutilations:

"Prior to July, 1995 ZetaTalk stated that Cattle Mutilations were
done to by human hand, but assisted by aliens - a combined team
intent on terrifying humanity about the alien presence. A historical
overview of Mutilations supports this."

More science fiction, conspiracy. No proof.

Centrifugal Force:

"On Jan 15, 1997 ZetaTalk stated that planetary or solar rotation did
not occur because of Centrifugal Force, but due to attraction and
repulsion of various components in the core. On March 31, 2000 the
Associated Press reported science findings supporting that Zeta
statement."

Another one for Sci-astro. But then I don´t remember ever being
taught that centrifugal force held the planets in orbit.

China Threats:

"On the Jan 12, 2000 Sightings radio show, ZetaTalk stated that China
saber rattling was not serious, but a distraction. On Feb 22, 2000
the Washington Times confirmed no immediate plans for war."

Well even I can predict that most threats are usually done with the
intention of intimidation. Those who act without warning turn out to
be far more dangerous, yet I notice in the world of politics this
never really happens. Everyone knows well in advance what´s going on,
most simply don´t pay attention. I notice however the Zeta´s are
lacking in the revelation type prediction area. (But then "hard to
see is dark side of the force".)

Chinese Pyramids:

"On Oct 15, 1996 ZetaTalk stated that Chinese Pyramids were built by
the same 12th Planet hominoids who erected the Giant Pyramids and
other such structures around the world. Works by Hartwig Hausdorf
confirm this."


Now Graham Hancock would love this one. He´s been working on this
stuff for an awful long time and even he can´t prove how the
knowledge was somehow shared so I´m damn sure he´d be hard pressed to
show how they were built by the same individuals. The styles are so
radically different in all instances. Did they not bother to
standardise back then? Surely it would have been easier for us simple
humans to prove the connection if they had?

Chupacabras:

"In May, 1996 ZetaTalk stated that the Chupacabras were akin to
Dragons and Vampires, brought to earth by aliens in the Service-to-
Self orientation to terrify humans, and that the rules of the Council
of Worlds was such that harm to a human could only occur if the human
in some way gave permission during their terror. They also stated
that South America was a Continent targeted by these aliens, and the
Chpacabras have consistently been reported in this area."

All these attacks and yet not one single specimen or photograph.
Slippery little suckers. Science fiction conspiracy.

Comet Behavior:

"In April 6, 1997 the Zetas started a debate on sci.astro wherein
they stressed repeatedly that NASA and JPL were asserting Comet
Behavior that was not correct, in essence in the Dark Ages on this
matter. They were brutally ridiculed. In June, 1999 when Comet Lee
appeared, NASA admitted their formulas were not working, and the
Zetas .d the Reversal."

The famous Sci-astro argument, where they shot her down in flames,
despite her attempts to hide her own previous statements from the TT
archives. (I notice there´s no proof quoted to add any credence to
the Zeta´s statement.)

Contradictory Messages:

"In February, 2000 ZetaTalk stated that Contradictory Messages given
out by the establishment would include talking about Bumper Crops to
disguise crop shortages and cutting back on foreign support. By mid-
year 2000, reports reflected this."

Ah, crop shortages. That´s why we´re all dieting on worms this week?
Last time I looked the stores seemed full of produce. Let´s see 2002
was supposed to be the time when all the shops would be empty, wasn´t
it?

(Remember these are touted as 100% accurate. A Zeta victory used by
Nancy at every opportunity.)

Crash at Kecksburg:

"On June 15, 1996 ZetaTalk stated that the Crash at Kecksburg was a
genuine UFO, but one the military was attempting to fly. A December,
1998 report, below, verifies the military´s involvement."

As usual lots of anonymous tips, from sources high up in the military
and government, but not one shred of credible proof. What was it
Nancy said to IMO on IRC? Something along the lines of standing up
and identifying himself? Seems she should apply the same rule of
thumb on those claimed as her own sources.

Crop Circles:

"Prior to July 15, 1995 ZetaTalk stated that Crop Circles were
created by aliens, and would increase in frequency as the pole shift
time approached. In the summer of 1998, the UFO*BC Quarterly
confirmed the non-human hand in their making, and on Dec 29, 1999
increased frequency in Canada reported. By 2001, a Clear Trend was
apparent."

Very strange very un.d, but no proof. They could just be
pranks and no one would ever know.

Crop Circle Video:

"On Jan 15, 1997, ZetaTalk stated that a Crop Circle Video taken
while a circle was being created was not a Fake, though loudly
pronounced to be so. Later analysis by CAUS organization in Dec, 1999
showed video not to be a fake but genuine."

Even I can´t help but find it very coincidental that the originator
of the video just happens to own a very large and expensive video
editing suite which even Mr Spielberg would envy.

Crop Failures:

"In May, 1995 ZetaTalk stated that Crop Failure would occur due to
erratic weather giving the wrong signals to plants, where they would
think spring had come early, causing worldwide crop failures for 3
years running going into the pole shift (2000, 2001, 2002). Starting
in January 1998, reports of such crop failures began coming in, but
as the Shortage TOPIC shows, this did indeed increase exponentially
in 2000."

What shortages? Surely by now we´d have noticed? Which countries are
showing the effects of this phenomenon Does anyone know any?

Dark Matter:

"Prior to July, 1995 ZetaTalk stated that a massive amount of tiny
matter, not Dark Matter, was the largest component in the Universe.
On January 6, 1999, the AAS presented evidence that dark matter
galaxies, called Ghost Galaxies, outnumber and outweigh luminous
galaxies, and on April 6, 2000 the Associated Press confirmed that
the tiny matter conclusion was being adopted by scientists."

Well seeing how they were talking about this back in 1994, before the
Zeta´s so called Tiny particles then it can´t be considered a
prediction, especially after the fact. Funny how theirs are Tiny and
the scientific fields call them WIMP´s. Notice the coincidence?

Deflecting Asteroids:

"In June, 1996 ZetaTalk stated that Deflecting Asteroids with nukes
would be ineffectual; in June, 1998 a computer model on nuking
asteroids showed this to be the case."

The movie Meteor was made back in 1979. I remember a documentary of
the film explaining the true dynamics of deflecting large spatial
bodies way back then. Even NASA admitted such a strike would be
unlikely to blow up the meteor as shown in the film. (And remember
that was 1979.)

Deformed Frogs:

"In October, 1996 ZetaTalk stated that the recent spate of Deformed
Frogs indicate they are sensitive to emanations from the Earth´s core
cause by the 12th Planet´s approach; in May, 1998 an article explains
that scientists cannot find a conventional explanation."

It´s more likely this can be put down to man´s intervention rather
than natural causes, especially considering all the shit we pump into
both water and soil. Certainly no evidence pointing to the 12th.

Devil´s Triangle:

"Prior to July, 1995 ZetaTalk reported that the Devil´s Triangle
problems, as well as a site off Japan and in the Great Lakes, were
subject to density switching. On Jan 18, 2000 the Navy reported human
error or magnetic irregularities responsible for all Devil´s Triangle
problems, but a Sailor´s Tale documents the density switching nature
that the Zetas reported."

More conspiracy stuff. No proof.

Dogon Tribe:

"On Aug 15, 1995 ZetaTalk stated that the Dogon Tribe in Africa had
encountered and learned astronomy from the giant hominoids of the
12th Planet in the past. On Nov 15, 1999 this history was posted on
the web, through Skeptics persist."

Now this one is weird I´ll give you that. How can so called ignorant,
uncivilised individuals learn of distant astronomical facts? I for
one don´t know, but the info is hardly new, certainly pre 1995
especially when documented as far back as the 30´s. Another
bandwaggon?


Domino Quakes:

"On Mar 15, 1999 ZetaTalk stated in the 1999 Predictions that domino
quakes would begin, where tightly locked plates would bump one
another. By June, 2000 Reuters had noted this."

Not very original as they were discussing "domino" quakes back before
1998. She makes out as if it was her who coined the phrase which is
not the case.

Dr. Reed:

"On the Dec 10, 1998 appearance on the Sightings radio show, ZetaTalk
stated that photos of Alien Bodies and specifically those
photographed by Dr. Reed would prove to be false, and later these
were documented by Set Lab and articles on Sightings to indeed be
fake."

Nobody really believed the photo´s so you would have looked pretty
stupid if you´d said they were genuine only to be proved a fake. At
best a fifty, fifty decision.

Earthquake Reporting:

"On Mar 15, 1999 ZetaTalk stated in the 1999 Predictions that the
increasing earthquake frequency and severity will be under-reported
in the media, a coverup in place to dampen panic. By early 2002, this
trend not only in the media but the USGS was evident."

"There´s no news quite like bad news". News agencies only report what
they consider to be attention grabbers, that´s what commercial TV is
all about, so a minor tremor that just knocks a few items off a wall
is hardly considered news worthy, unless of course it comes from an
area that doesn´t have earth tremors. I paid close attention during
that period and every major event appeared on the BBC within 24 hours
of the event, sometimes earlier. Plus every detail was posted on TT
during that same period so how could there have been a cover up?

Earth Twin:

"In September, 1995 ZetaTalk stated that there is an Earth Twin
positioned in the same orbit as the Earth, balanced exactly opposite
the Earth so that it cannot be viewed from Earth as it is blocked by
the Sun. In November, 1997, verification of this came from Russian
scientists."

An e-mail of a message from an anonymous source hardly constitutes
proof. Anyone could have sent it, even Nancy. I´ve seen several old
films that postulate the theory of an exact duplicate Earth rotating
around the Sun. Hardly original, but unless the Zeta´s can supply
full colour photo´s I guess we´ll never really know.

Easter Island:


"Prior to July, 1995 ZetaTalk stated that the heads on Easter Island
were moved with the same anti-gravity capability used to build the
Great Pyramids. Nova reported on the Public Broadcasting System that
this coincides with the oral tradition of the Rapa Nui folklore."

So what happened to these mystical powers? Why can´t man move
mountains anymore? And you can´t use the excuse of it being hidden
from us as those in the know would sure as hell be using these same
powers to control and manipulate. Nice theory though. No proof.

Economic Collapse:

"In November, 1999 in Market Crash ZetaTalk stated that Most stocks
are inflated beyond their value, very few are not, and they can fall
to 1/4 of their value before they settle with the public feeling they
have some confidence in the stock and that it cannot be worth less,
and again in January, 2001 in During 2001 ZetaTalk stated that
Economic impacts would begin to bump into each other, one causing the
other, so that the economic result is beyond a recession and
threatening to become a worldwide depression."

Here we go again more financial babble. Always after the fact I
notice.

Face on Mars:

"In August, 1995 that the Structures on Mars were made by the same
group that created the Sphinx and Great Pyramids, and that the Secret
Chamber was a navigational aid; in January, 1998, Astronomer Van
Flandern confirmed that."

You´ll note that basically its "The Pyramids" revamped. So first no
one has proved that there are any structures on Mars although it
would be rather cool if they did. Second how could any of the
Pyramids be used as navigational aids? What she describes is a simple
telescope. Hardly a navigational aid. And that begs the question how
did they rotate the pyramid to observe its retrograde inbound
trajectory? Anyone who´s looked at the 12th planet co-ordinates
supplied by the Zeta´s can see they hardly form a line that can be
observed from a static position, so how did the operator account for
its motion in the night sky? Not to mention the effects of procession
and so called prior shifts.

Fisheries:

"On Mar 15, 1999 ZetaTalk stated in the 1999 Predictions that
fisheries would be affected by warmer oceans, and harvests reduced.
On July 20, 2000 such loss in North Sea harvest began to be reported."

Fish stocks have been dwindling for years and not due to warming
oceans but rather man´s pollution and greed. This was predicted some
time back by scientists long before any aliens.

Flashes:

"On Jan 15, 1997 ZetaTalk stated that Flashes associated with booms
were due to Methane gas released during underwater or landbased
quakes. On March 22, 1999 documentation on the web on Earthquake
Lights confirmed this".

Same as "Booms". Where´s the proof?


More to Follow!
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/19/2005 12:06 PM
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Re: ZetaTalk Again Exposed
Commentary on ZetaTalk
Greetings, fellow conspirationists!

Now that the Secret Channels have told me that we
all are going to receive our paycheck for the
efforts in undermining the TRVTH behind Nancy Lieder´s
ZetaTalk™, I was motivated to redo my webpages.
Where I previously used unattractive black-and-white
schemes, it has been found by G. studies that
simple coloured multimedia has much deeper effect
on reader´s subconscius and hence, the psyche.

With my enhanced design, I aim to further our efforts
to emphasize the view of Nancy as a paranoid, delusional
middle-aged woman through carefully sieving her
postings for inappropriate remarks, thus making her appear
in bad light. Despite her numerous posts displaying
integrity and compassionate understanding in good
mental health, I´m certain that my seeming sincerity
will deceive them. The material I was able to dig
should make any real believer cringe in anguish and
seek professional help, at which point they will
walk into our hands, as according to the plan. Our
one-world future is now closer than ever!

I would be most grateful, fellow conspirationist,
if you referred to my pages from henceworth with
the url:

[link to www.saunalahti.fi]

The Sumerians saw it. The Russians photographed it. NASA saw it, too. And now, eons after it left our world behind as a smoking, lifeless mess, the dreaded Planet X is about to reenter our solar system and mess up our world all over again. Or is it?

They say it triggers earthquakes. That it rips open volcanoes, and unleashes massive tsunamis. They say it can kick the Earth’s axis over, pushing Africa to the pole and Antarctica to the equator. It may even stop our planet from rotating! Or worse: peel the Earth’s crust off, tear our planet to bits. Or perhaps it simply sweeps our world aside, pushing it into the Sun. That’s the way it goes when suddenly, a HUGE planet zooms by. They say.

The demon planet that is supposed to do the trick goes by many names. Some call it Nibiru, or Marduk. Others named it The Ottawa Object, or Vulcan, or Transpluto. But most people prefer X, just X. `Planet X’, to be precise.

Planet X is the supposedly eleventh planet of our solar system. It should be as big as many Earths, dwarfing it perhaps even hundreds of times. Some people think X isn’t even a real planet, but a `brown dwarf’: a massive ball of dust and gas that almost succeeded in becoming a star. Planet X has something no other planet has: a huge orbit. Its orbit around the Sun lasts 3,600 years. Most of the time, it is far off, invisible to the eye. But every 3,600 years, the lost planet returns. Once here, it accelerates, and swings close past the Sun, disrupting everything it encounters.

And that’s exactly what Planet X is about to do, they say. Right now, it should be somewhere in the outer regions of the solar system, still invisible to our telescopes. But in the spring of 2003, it will suddenly make its appearance. It will be some event. Within months, Planet X will reach the inner regions of the solar system, disturbing the eclipses of the planets and bombarding us with comets. In May, it will pass Earth, missing it only at a few hairs’ lengths. Or, well: hitting us at full force, perhaps.

And that will be it. X will fly off again, not to be seen for another 3,600 years. And our planet? Earth will be bruised and battered, and covered in lava. If there’s anything worth calling a planet left at all, that is.

Planet X: The Real Story

Then again, maybe nothing happens at all in 2003. You see, Planet X is like the perfect myth: the outcome of centuries of ill-omened rumors, laced with snippets of history and cosmology. But: it is still myth. Dream stuff.

It all began with a tablet of clay, uncovered in the Near East many years ago. On the tablet, the Sumerians, the earliest known inhabitants of the Middle East, jotted down something that looked like a solar system. Earth was there, and Saturn, and Jupiter -- as well as all other planets we know of today. But hey, aren’t there supposed to be nine planets? The clay tablet clearly displays eleven. The tenth one could be the moon, or the newly discovered mini-planet Sedna. But that still leaves you with one planet too many. Weird, isn’t it?


Ten: The famous `Berlin seal´, displaying one planet too many.

Next came the astronomers. From the 1840s until deep into the 1980s, astronomy was haunted by a strange mystery. Something was not right with the orbits of the outer planets. Something really heavy seemed to be tugging at the outer planets Uranus and Neptune. Certain asteroids felt the mysterious pull, too. Must be an enormous planet out there, many astronomers assumed. Or several planets, even. This was how Planet X got its name: the term `X’ comes from the early-twentieth century astronomer Percival Lowell, best known for his study of the `canals’ on Mars.

But eventually, in the 1980s and 1990s, the riddle was solved. There appeared to be no mystery planet involved at all. Neither is there some mysterious force pulling on Neptune’s orbit. The astronomers simply had their orbit calculations wrong. But with better techniques, it all added up. By now, no serious astronomer believes in Planet X anymore. Exit Planet X.

But it was too late already. The Planet X-story had started to lead a life of its own. The breakthrough came in 1976, when a new age-writer by the name of Zecharia Sitchin linked the Planet X-problem of the astronomers up with Sumerian and Babylonian mythology.

Enter Sumerian religion. Like most people, the Sumerians had a lot of pretty neat stories about how the Earth came about. In one of them, it all began with a family quarrel between two gods, Tiamat and Marduk. The two picked a fight, and Marduk won. Pissed off as he was, Marduk cut Tiamat to bits. From the body parts he created our world. This leg here is the sky; that arm there, that´ll be the land.

But Sitchin turned the story upside-down. To his opinion, the Sumerians were actually describing an ancient cosmic disaster. A collision between our own planet (Tiamat), and Marduk -- which was, of course, the mystery planet from the clay tablet, a.k.a. Planet X. Adds up nice, right?

Well: it doesn´t. For one thing, Sitchin´s translations of the Sumerian texts were terrible - for example, he got the word for `planet´ wrong. And the words Nibiru and Marduk? Marduk was, besides a god, a nickname for the planet Jupiter. `Nibiru´ simply means `ferry boat´ and was sometimes used to describe... Jupiter! So in fact, what Sitchin holds for Planet X is simply good old Jupiter.

The astronomical side of the story is no good, either. A planet with a highly elliptic orbit of 3,600 years would after a few rotations fly off, direction deep space - or just become part of the ´normal´ solar system. It is simply impossible there is a Planet X around. Physics forbids it, just like it forbids apples from falling upwards.

But how about the ten planets on the Sumerian tablet? That´s decoration, probably. Or it could be Venus, as seen from Earth, and surrounded by stars. There are many, many clay tablets exactly like this one, and they all display funny little drawings in the corners: crosses, moons, stars -- you name it. So there´s no need to think anything special of the `planets´. We can be sure of one thing, though: it isn´t a astronomical map. The Sumerians believed our planet was a flat disc, they didn´t believe the planets rotated around the Sun, and they had no way of seeing the outer planets Neptune, Pluto and Quaovar.

Still, Sitchins book was a bestseller, and Planet X gained quite a following on Earth. It still has. Some believe Planet X is an inhabited planet, inhabited by Atlantians, or pyramid-builders, or little green men, or... well, you know, that sort of thing. Even today, there are people around who claim they are in `telepathic contact’ with the inhabitants of the planet. Sigh... Some people will simply believe anything!

Aw... Hold it now. Is that all? Well, there’s this other thing. For in fact, Planet X has been spotted by NASA! In 1983, two astronomers named Neugebauer and Houck made headlines with their announcement that they had discovered a `Jupiter-sized planet’, cruising the galaxy at a distance of two billion kilometers from the Sun.

But: the headlines were wrong. What Neugebauer and Houck really told the press was that they discovered an irregularity in the infrared spectrum. It could be almost anything, they stated, ranging from a new planet to a distant galaxy. The press obviously preferred the planet. But after a while it became clear that what the astronomers really saw was a distant galaxy.

By now, numerous pictures, news clippings and remarkable facts `proving’ the existence of the dreaded Planet X are circulating the Net. But don’t stock on tin cans: they´re all bogus (for the details, check out the fact sheet at the bottom of this page).

It is at this point many Planet X-believers resort to gossip and childish, X-filish conspiracy theory. According to one particular rumor, the astronomers hold back all information regarding Nibiru. The Russians would have taken photos of Planet X, including affirmed alien space ships hovering over its surface (see pictures below). Another rumor has it the coming of Planet X is covered up by hushy governments -- isn’t that why so many observatories are closed down for maintenance? Oh, sure! You must have a Sumerian clay tablet for a brain to buy stuff like that!

So: Planet-Ex?

You guessed it. If they ever start telling you about Planet-X, laugh your wits off. Don’t take any precautions – there’s no need. Planet X doesn’t exist. Never has. Never will. Off with you, Nibiru. Shoo.

[ Credit: For the Sumerian part of the story, Exit Mundi owes a great deal to Wilfred van Soldt, an expert on Mesopotamian astronomy at Leiden University who was willing to look into the case. Also, Exit Mundi consulted Frank Israel, an astronomer at the same university. The insight they offered is invaluable, thanks! ]
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/19/2005 12:07 PM
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Re: ZetaTalk Again Exposed
The `Evidence’
The Facts


- There could be such a thing as a Planet X around.

No, that´s impossible. Planet X is said to have a highly elliptical orbit. But such orbits are unstable. Soon, the planet would get a circular orbit and become part of the ´normal´ solar system - or it would fly off into deep space. There just is no other way.



- Sumerian mythology tells of a collision between two planets.

No, it doesn’t. In one particular Sumerian creation story, Earth is created after a violent conflict between Tiamat and Nibiru. But neither of them is a planet: they’re gods, the two of them. It was the writer Zecharia Sitchin who introduced the planets, not the Sumerians.



- The Sumerians knew of a planet they called `Nibiru´.

Wrong. `Nibiru´ is just the ancient word for `ferry boat´. In some Babylonian texts, the word `nibiru´ is used to describe the movement of the planet Jupiter - which was also called `Marduk´. So neither Nibiru nor Marduk refers to some weird planet. It just means: Jupiter! Nothing more, nothing less.



- The Sumerians knew very much about cosmology. That’s why you should take it serious when they say there is a Planet X around.

Wrong. Indeed, the Sumerians had the same amount of brain as we have. But they weren’t interested in astronomy at all. That came later, with the Babylonian civilization. And even then, the Babylonians believed Earth was a disk, with the Sun revolving around it! Just look at it this way: the Greek, the Chinese and the Maya knew lot more about cosmology than the Babylonians and the Sumerians– and they never mentioned a tenth planet!



- The Sumerians had a pictorial word, `shar´, that means `planet´, `orbit´ and `3,600´. This must refer to the fact that Planet X has an orbit time of 3,600 years.

Far from it. ´Shar´ means ´3,600´ alright. But in another language, Akkadian, there was a pictorial ´sharru´ which meant ´Marduk´ or ´supreme ruler´ -- and nót `planet´. The mixing up of two completely different languages, once again, comes from Sitchin.



- The Babylonians frequently used the letter `X´. This means: `planet of the crossing´.

No, it doesn´t. The Babylonians used X much like we do: to mark things. In specific, they used X´s to mark their kettle. But the X doesn´t refer to anything that has to do with planets.

- Planet X must have slammed into our world: that’s why the once-joined continents are split up and floating away from each other.

Total nonsense. The force that pushes the continents apart doesn´t come from outer space – but from deep underneath the Earth’s crust. In the Atlantic, new seabed is constantly being formed, and this pushes the continents apart.



- Still, something huge did slam into our planet – modern science agrees on that.

Yes, but that particular event took place 4,5 billion years ago. In those days, a huge heavenly body cleft our planet in two, creating the Moon. But there weren’t even single-celled bacteria around at that time. Let alone Sumerians with clay tablets to write about the event.



- But the Sumerians were in contact with an alien race. They told them all about Planet X.
There is not a shred of evidence to support such hocus-pocus. Think of it this way: if the ancient Sumerians indeed were such good friends with an alien race, then why didn’t they even have the technology to prevent their culture from being run over again and again by invading neighbors? The Sumerians were pretty simple, rudimentary farmers that lived off of the land.


- But still, there´s the `Berlin Seal´ (also known as the `Akkadian Seal´). On it, you clearly see more planets than there are in our solar system:

But what you see isn´t a map of the solar system at all. It´s decoration, probably. Or a picture of Venus, as seen from our planet, and surrounded by stars. The ancient Babylonians made funny little drawings like this all the time. And they all looked different. So it´s just coincidence this one resembles a solar system.
We do know for sure that it isn´t a map, because the Babylonians believed the Earth was the center of the solar system. No Babylonian would have placed the Sun in the center. Besides, the `map´ is full of errors. The planets are out of proportions and Saturn has no ring. And obviously, there are too many `planets´.



- Joshua tells of a `long day’ – while the West Coast Indians have stories of a `long night’. That’s a clear indication the planet stopped rotating for a while when Planet X last came by.

No, that is impossible. Planets cannot just stop rotating for a while and then start again. Physics forbids it. And hey, if you´d read enough ancient writings, you would find `evidence’ for almost anything!



- Still, around 3,600 years ago, something awful did happen. There´s a lot of evidence telling us that the world was struck by disaster.

Yes, but a volcano and not Planet X was the culprit. Around 1628 BC, the Greek volcano of Thera erupted, causing darkness even in China and a sudden, sharp climate drop all over the world. That´s bad enough, but eruptions like these happen all the time. What´s more, Thera was still a relatively small volcano, as you can read elsewhere on this site. It is worth noting that none of the ancient texts about the Thera disaster mentions anything about unusual events in the sky.



- Many astronomers believe Planet X exists. And for good reason: there’s some mysterious object tugging at the orbits of Neptune and the outer asteroids.

Not anymore they do. Indeed, for almost 150 years, astronomers assumed there could very well be another planet out there. But by now, we know that the astronomers were wrong. They simply didn´t have the orbits of the outer planets correct, because they lacked the tools. By now, we know there is nothing strange about the orbits of the outer planets. And since then, the calculations add up fine.



- There´s good geological evidence for Planet X. Once in a while, Earth is struck by mass extinctions. These extinctions show a very regular pattern, suggesting the planet is struck by disaster periodically.

Not true. Indeed, in 1984, two renowned palaeologists claimed the discovery of an `extinction pattern´. Every 26 to 30 million years, there´s a `wave´ of extinctions. But they withdrew that theory later. When you look over a longer period of time, there´s no pattern to be found at all. Besides, the palaeologists weren´t thinking of Planet X -- but of a twin Sun called Nemesis.



- NASA has photographed Planet X in 1983

No, they haven’t. In 1983, the IRAS satellite spotted something un.d that turned out to be a new type of very distant galaxy. But for lack of anything better, the press concluded that NASA had spotted a tenth planet.



- The Russians have photographed Planet X in their `Norlock’-project.

That’s a hoax. There’s no such thing as a secret project called Norlock. The hoax was set up by someone claiming to be an anonymous Russian scientist who had `finally decided to share this important information with the world.’ Yeah, sure.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/19/2005 12:08 PM
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Re: ZetaTalk Again Exposed
The World Did Not End & The White Lie
by Timothy Quinn


There will be no refunds on disposable toilet bags or emergency
dental kits, so if you purchased these or other "family
preparedness" supplies from The Survival Center, in the
expectation that a mysterious planet or rogue sister star of our
own Sun would wipe out 90% of the Earth´s population this month,
you´ll have to simply chalk it up to a moment´s paranoia: the
sun is shining, the planet is blissfully unmolested and Britney
Spears has no plans for repopulating a post-apocalyptic Earth
with you anytime soon.

Planet X, or Nibiru as it´s exotically known to believers in a
cult of ancient Sumerian astrophysicists, remains a persistent
myth based on an innocuous observational error now nearly a
quarter-millennium old.

The error has to do with the orbits of the outer planets in our
solar system, and is inarguably symptomatic of well practiced
science: few discoveries circumvent the awkward evolution of
initial mismeasurement into refined calculation and clarity,
even if 14-point headlines and Hollywood dramatizations
sometimes make it seem as if science is little more than the act
of lighting a match in a dark room.

The mystery of Uranus, discovered in 1781 at the seeming cusp of
our solar system, was no exception. In the years following its
discovery, perturbations were noticed in its orbit that hinted
at the gravitational tug of something not yet discovered in the
void beyond.

A search was undertaken and an eighth planet found by the mid-
nineteenth century, but while Neptune´s influence helped explain
some of the variations in its predecessor´s path across the
ecliptic, its mass was slightly larger than anticipated and left
a small margin still unaccounted for.

Nearly a century passed before a ninth planet was discovered in
1930 and it seemed at last as if the issue of Uranus´ anomalous
orbit had been put firmly to bed - until it was established that
Pluto was just a bit too small to balance out the orbits of the
outer planets, and so the search continued for a further guiding
hand at the edge of the solar system: an as yet undiscovered
planet which had been fancifully dubbed Planet X and was
certainly not out of place in the era of Flash Gordon, Buck
Rogers of the Twenty-Fifth Century and Orson Welles´ radio
adaptation of The War of the Worlds.

It became clear in 1992 that there was nothing at all wrong with
the orbit of Uranus. NASA´s Voyager 2 probe measured Neptune´s
mass on its way out of the solar system in 1989 and, once the
numbers had been crunched, resolved the discrepancy once and for
all by subtracting a problematic .5% and restoring harmony to
the orbits of the outermost planets.

Although this would seem an appropriate occasion to turn the
page and move onto any number of as yet unresolved issues in
planetary astronomy, it turns out there´s something strangely
appealing about anticlimactic mysteries such as these to a small
but persistent reactionary fringe of armchair cosmologists,
conspiracy theorists and doomsday profiteers.

Unmoved by equally dire (if slightly more plausible) threats of
nuclear escalation, antibiotic-resistant bacteria, near-Earth
asteroids or neighborhood supernovae, the doomsday fringe prefer
stories of a more baroque touch: alien invasions, planetary
alignments, super-storms, apocalyptic computer viruses, Nazi
flying saucers and secret CIA mind control experiments.

Undeterred by the embarrassing survival of the human race
following the publication of such blanching paperbacks as
Richard W. Noone´s "5/5/2000 Ice: The Ultimate Disaster" and
David S. Montaigne´s "Nostradamus World War III 2002," doomsday
prophets like Mark Hazelwood ("Blindsided: Planet X Passes in
2003") and Nancy Lieder (founder of the ZetaTalk cult) have
breathed new life into the mysterious perturbations of Uranus´
orbit as a smoking gun for Planet X, the furtive tenth planet or
sister sun which was destined to have re-entered our solar
system this month with satisfyingly cataclysmic results. The
evidence for a distant rogue planet, according to writer and
fringe researcher Zecharia Sitchin ("The Twelfth Planet"), can
be found in ancient Sumerian tablets which seem to depict eleven
planets circling a sun.

To make prophecy match modern interpretation, of course,
revisionists like Sitchin have had to quietly count the Earth´s
moon as a "planet" and then, just for good measure, gone ahead
and counted the sun as a planet too.

What Sitchin´s jacket copy of "The Twelfth Planet" declines to
mention is the fact that the Sumerians were also wrong about
rather a lot. They believed that the sky was a great enclosed
dome which contained the sun, the moon and the stars, for
instance.

To therefore selectively interpret 6000-year old Sumerian
creation myths as evidence that the Earth was seeded by aliens
and their android thralls, as Sitchin advocate Jason Martell has
been wont to do, seems - shall we say - a trifle disingenuous.

Doomsday prophets are not a recent phenomenon, and while one
might argue that book royalties and the promise of late night
talk show coverage motivates the modern apocalyptic seer,
there´s clearly something about the messianic act that appeals
to certain personality types.

We´ll never know whether Nostradamus would´ve been a hit at
cocktail parties, but his present-day counterparts might lead
one to believe that charisma, intellect and unthreatened open-
mindedness are less likely attributes than an awkward unblinking
paranoia when confronted by intellectual sophistication or
irrefutable data.

To hear Sitchin mutter about alien astronauts in ancient
Mesopotamia is to find oneself wishing he´d found a somewhat
healthier outlet for his mania, like hanging around convention
halls dressed as Mr. Spock.

Disquietingly, it seems not only as if hysterical superstition
and messianic prophesy have survived the enlightenment, but may
paradoxically be thriving in an age unprecedented for scientific
discovery and public access to information.

The longevity of doomsday cults like ZetaTalk is, if nothing
else, a strong indication that one of our fundamental
assumptions about alternative science is wrong: as much as we
might wish to believe that ignorance remains the firmament of
exploitation, the twenty-first century´s intellectual plague is
a wealth of knowledge untempered by clear refutation.

The hoaxed moon landing movement is a particularly interesting
example of the sort of pseudoscientific fearmongering that
should´ve gone out of vogue with forensic phrenology.

Inspired by the provocative (and not unenjoyable) 1978 movie,
"Capricorn One," in which budget-strapped NASA fakes a Mars
mission and is forced to kill its own astronauts to keep the
truth from the public, a fervid group of conspiracy theorists
have embraced the notion that life mimics art (or vice versa)
and aggressively promote the theory that NASA successfully faked
the six Apollo landings - somehow doctoring data, forging
photographs, dubbing radio transmissions and brainwashing or
blackmailing thousands of aeronautics employees and
subcontractors in what would have to be the biggest conspiracy
since the Knights of Malta spirited away the Ark of the
Covenant, kidnapped the Lindbergh baby and assassinated Kurt
Cobain.

It´s a testament to how pervasive the Apollo hoax theory has
become in recent years that the Fox network aired a mortifying
1991 pseudodocumentary called "Conspiracy Theory: Did We Land on
the Moon?" (not dissimilar to their previous efforts at
provocative science, "Alien Autopsy: Fact or Fiction?" and
"UFO´s, The Best Evidence Ever Caught on Tape," both of which
were revisited in dubiously self-serving fashion in "World´s
Greatest Hoaxes: Secrets Finally Revealed"); equally telling is
the fact that a current Google search for "Apollo landings" is
likely to result in at least one hoax-related website within the
first cluster of ten results.

It´s hard to imagine how the Apollo missions might have been
more fully documented to provide indisputable proof of human
presence on the moon. Anyone with an Internet connection can
view archived photographs, read transcripts of recorded
conversations between Houston and the lunar surface or order a
commemorative DVD from Nova.

Conspiracy theorists counter this wealth of information with a
level of logic not often found beyond the high sanitarium walls:
a seeming absence of stars is attributed to clumsy set design
rather than the limited sensitivity of NASA cameras, and the
graceful bounding gait of astronauts traversing the moon´s
surface is apparently evidence of film run at half-speed through
a projector rather than a near-weightless environment.

So why doesn´t NASA simply set the record straight? After all,
to paraphrase a clich=E9, if we can put a man on the moon can´t we
clearly explain how we got him there - and why a foley artist
behind a blue-screen is a pretty unlikely explanation for
perceived anomalies in the mission record? Concerned astronomers
like Phil Plait have already attempted as much, yet NASA has
chosen to take the high road, aborting an attempt to produce a
book on spaceflight-related hoaxes by historian Jim Oberg when
the media caught the scent of a potential cockfight.

Whether there´s any r.tween the space agency´s
perpetually beleaguered budget and a public perception of
incompetence or conspiracy is certainly arguable, but there´s
little question that NASA holds claim to a smaller cut of the
national imagination that it did a scant forty years ago - and a
specific percentage of that mindspace is linked to lurid
allegations of fraud. A low double-digit book contract seems a
small price to pay for bringing home the swing vote.

As strategies go, the high road wasn´t particularly effective
with Roswell and doesn´t seem to be working with Area 51 either.
The Fox network´s alien autopsy fiasco is a good indication that
many people still think an alien spacecraft landed outside
Roswell, New Mexico, in July 1947 - rather than what was later
identified as a military weather balloon, a mix-up which seems
to have originated when William Brazel, the rancher who
discovered the wreckage on his property, reported to the local
sheriff that he had stumbled across what appeared to be "one of
them flying saucers."

Likewise, Area 51 - a top-secret Air Force proving ground for
experimental aircraft in the Great Basin Desert of Nevada - has
acquired a persistent following of UFOlogists who believe this
remote site to be the flashpoint for a pending alien invasion of
the heartland.

Blame it on too many remakes of "Invasion of the Body
Snatchers": instead of remembering that the original 1956
version had alien pods standing in for communists (or, in
opposing interpretations, for McCarthyists), we choose to
remember the alien pods as... holy mackerel, alien pods!

The intelligence community is at least partially to blame for
this kind of literalist paranoia: reluctant denials and blacked-
out memoranda are obviously a poor substitute for clear and open
refutation.

Perhaps the most innocuous of pseudoscientific obfuscations is
the Intelligent Design movement, a post-creationist anti-
Darwinian ideology with a folksy media-friendly name intended to
disguise an unflinching mandate to restore religion as part of
the science curriculum in public schools.

Three quarters of a century after the paradigm-wrenching Scopes
Monkey Trial, popular neocreationist advocates like Michael Behe
("Darwin´s Black Box: The Biochemical Challenge to Evolution")
and William Dembski ("Intelligent Design: The Bridge Between
Science and Theology") are quick to point out that ID isn´t your
daddy´s seven-day creation myth.

Intelligent Design rather rakishly acknowledges the process of
natural selection as evidenced by a robust fossil record, but
stops short of attributing humanity´s emergence to a
dispassionate assembly of amino acids on a fortuitously located
planet circling an average main sequence star.

Behe, for example, argues that nature is filled with
"irreducibly complex" systems like bacterial flagella (a form of
cellular propulsion) which only function properly if several
interrelated components somehow evolve simultaneously; he
neglects to consider that there might be alternate evolutionary
benefits to individual components, ignoring the fact that nature
is filled with complex systems that reuse the successful bits
and pieces of simpler organisms.

The fundamental flaws of Intelligent Design won´t be found in
bacteria, however - ultimately, ID posits the logical fallacy
that if God cannot be disproved He must therefore exist, as well
as the taxonomic fallacy that theology is a quantifiable
scientific endeavor rather than mere philosophical theism.

What distinguishes the threat of Intelligent Design from prior
creationist arguments is a shrewd use of popular science; like
UFO fanatics or moon hoaxers, ID advocates sift through an
abundance of data in fields as diverse as biochemistry,
numerical analysis, behavioral psychology and cultural
anthropology in search of superficial similarities to invariably
vague theories of surreptitious determinism.

To the average layperson, evidence such as this - cautiously
cast in the language of twenty-first century science - can seem
to possess a thin veneer of respectability when unchallenged by
informed refutation.

Either because of good manners or an unwillingness to compromise
religious tolerance, Intelligent Design in particular has been
spared the rigor of critical thinking in the popular media, with
the notable exception of occasional articles in mainstream
publications like the Skeptical Inquirer and Natural History
magazine.

Whether confronting doomsday prophesy or alternative science,
the popular media generally contribute to hysterical
misperception by attempting to negotiate an inherent conflict of
interest between responsible journalism and salacious hard copy.

"The Day the World Shuts Down" was Newsweek´s 1998 attempt to
objectively analyze the new millennium´s Y2K crisis. A year
later, CNN was "Bracing for Guerrilla Warfare in Cyberspace."
Time Magazine lunged at us from another direction with its 2001
cover story "Summer of the Shark," drifting back into deeper
waters with a 2002 cover story on "The Bible and the
Apocalypse."

Blaming the media, however, is perhaps a little like blaming
one´s reflection for being overweight: we´re all responsible for
the information we choose to consume and the degree of personal
gullibility we´re inclined to tolerate.

The average American´s gullibility barometer couldn´t help but
have reacted to the 9/11 attacks on New York City and
Washington, DC: just when we´d begun to adjust to the declining
role of organized religion in our increasingly quantifiable
lives, Islamic fundamentalism put the end of Western
civilization back on the map.

Amid the resulting media frenzy of terrorist sleeper cells and
potential rogue nations, the prophesied return of Planet X
seemed a little less the stuff of science fiction and, to many,
just one more reason to feel a bit jumpy on the way to the
laundromat.

For the conspiratorial fringe, 9/11 was a goldmine of
conflicting data, irretrievable evidence and easily exploited
paranoia. Even after Islamic militants had been publicly
identified on the flight rosters of hijacked planes, rumors
abounded that it was the work of Zionists trying to polarize
debate in the Israel-Palestine conflict, or wait, maybe the
United States military did it to distract the American public
from a struggling presidency.

For its part, the Bush administration showed little hesitancy in
exploiting public opinion to mobilize American forces against
Iraq, calmly marginalizing as na=EFve any arguments that an Iraqi
/ bin Laden connection were tenuous at best with the same smug
unflappability favored by Roswell believers confronting a
skeptical scientific community.

Sadly, conspiracy theory and reactionary militarism if
unsuccessfully refuted both favor a wealth of conflicting
information, lowering the bar for the paranoid and messianic:
instead of insisting on unwavering belief, it seems all a modern
seer need demand is that you believe in everything, even if only
a little bit.

To date, the bulk of the scientific community has washed its
hands of cult science, sufficing to roll back on its heels with
an exasperated cry of, "Where does it end?" Surely there has to
be a point past which it´s simply not worth the effort of
discrediting spurious claims or providing the deliberately
uninformed and embarrassingly delusional with - in the words of
one frustrated writer to Natural History magazine - "exactly
what they desired: publicity in a mainstream scientific forum.

These advocates should be ostracized by the scientific
community, just as we would ostracize someone who claims to be
researching the natural behavior of wood nymphs and faeries."

As comfortable as most people may be drawing that line, it´s
clear that primetime network alien autopsies - or Time/CNN polls
revealing that 65% of Americans believe clandestine alien
contact was made in the forties - ought to suggest that the
scientific community´s boundaries of responsibility need to
redrawn for the information age.

To dismiss Roswell and Rael as particularly weedy offspring of a
hopelessly Punchinelloed Flat Earth Society (which, at its
height, had little more to work with than azimuthal cartography)
somehow seems an arrogant attempt to have our cake and eat it
too: popular paperbacks on cosmology and natural science come at
a price, and that price is the authority we invest, foolishly or
not, in unexamined science writ large.

Timothy Quinn is a writer and technology professional who
currently lives and works in New York City.
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11/19/2005 12:11 PM
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Re: ZetaTalk Again Exposed
The real dangers of Armageddon
by Bret Cantwell
The world was supposed to end on May 15th 2003 when a brown dwarf passed through the solar system causing catastrophic upheaval and killing 90% of life on Earth. Though it did not happen, this so-called "Planet X" may still represent a danger to life and livelihood.
To some skeptics, the belief in "Planet X" has taken on the nature of a cult religion, and one of the belief´s main advocates, Nancy Lieder, seems to have a Messiah Complex. An overview of the tenets of what is referred to as "Zetacult" as well as statements and actions by Ms. Lieder shows clear evidence of this occurring.
Zetatalk, a word used for Ms. Lieder´s agenda, web site and her persona when she supposedly channels aliens from Zeta Reticuli started in 1995. What has developed since then is far from warmed over Velikovsky, and it is possible that a handful to thousands have embraced her apocalyptic vision. Therein lies the potential for tragedy. Some cults, like Jehovah´s Witnesses survive the passing of a set date for doomsday. Some, like Heaven´s Gate don´t. At the very least there is the possibility of lasting psychological damage to believers realizing they´ve been duped.
Zetatalk as cult religion
UFO religions and cults are classified as such because they have replaced an incorporeal deity with aliens who serve the same purpose. Other UFO movements have inculcated other religious motifs such as agents of evil, a creative or apocalyptic narrative and a "heaven" or better life at some point. As seen with Heaven´s Gate, these tenets can be deadly.
• A god who is "up there somewhere," who cares about Earthlings, has power and knowledge far beyond ours and is looking out for us has been replaced in the Zetacult by the Zetas who are the inhabitants of Zeta Reticuli.
• Agents of evil who known as demons or heretics are manifested in Zetacult by government officials and astronomers who are part of a cabal to prevent the "good news" of Planet X from getting out. To believers, NASA is the devil.
• An apocalyptical "end time," such as Ragnarok or the events in Revelation occur for the Zetacult when Planet X arrives. A new world is promised to believers who follow the salvation plan offered by the Zetas.
• Religious sacred texts contain tenets, methods of salvation or describe the actions (including battles with the enemy) of deities and messiahs. For Zetacult, the texts are easily accessible at www.zetatalk.com. Tenets of faith about Ms. Lieder, Planet X and the Zetas, words of wisdom on a variety of spiritual and scientific topics, methods of surviving Planet Xs arrival so that you can live in the "heaven" of the post arrival world and transcripts of Ms. Lieder´s battles with the demons (transcripts of IRC chats with astronomers and skeptics) are all available there.
• Prophecy or future sight is used by many religions to demonstrate the higher knowledge of god. Adherents then wait for fulfillment (sometimes with very tortured logic or thin evidence) to proclaim the "truth" of their religion because their god knew of future events. Zetatalk.com has a page dedicated to supposed fulfillments of Ms Lieder´s Zeta channeled prophecies demonstrating the higher knowledge of the Zeta gods.
• Similar to prophecy are signs and wonders that supposedly demonstrate the truth of a religions tenets or as a demonstration that the end times are immanent. Zetatalk.com includes photos of Planet X that are either fakes or mistakes. Ms. Lieder is also making claims about earthquakes and weather phenomena to prove the Planet X end times is upon us.
• Much like Catholic and Orthodox Christianity or Sunni and Shiia Islam, Zetacult endured a schism between Ms. Lieder and a man named Mark Hazlewood. Amid accusations of money-making schemes and copyright violations the two split and are now trying position themselves as the inheritor of Planet X truth.
• Cults often develop a siege mentality and seek to isolate themselves from influences that might interfere with total adherence to cult dogma. Zetacult isolationism is primarily intellectual and seen mainly in their on-line presence. Believers heavily moderate and censor chat sessions and message boards and skeptics or dissenting opinions are removed just for asking questions.
• Cults and fringe sects of religion, such as Young Earth Creationists follow a simple credo - Science is bad, Revealed Knowledge is good. This credo is at the heart of the Zetacult. It doesn´t matter what some PhD is telling you. It doesn´t matter what some amature skywatcher with her own 8 inch telescope tells you. It doesn´t matter what mathematicians, astronomers, geologists or meteorologists are telling you. All that matters is Ms. Lieder´s revelations from the Zetas.
• Cults have charismatic leaders who get the good news out, recruit believers, do battle with agents of evil and tell followers exactly how to live their lives. Some like Marshall Applewhite and David Koresh see themselves as messianic figures. This next section will show that Nancy Lieder sees herself to be one as well.
Nancy Lieder as Messiah
Ambitious people, out to save or change the world, have often seen themselves as historical figures. Some of them have crossed a threshold and begin to see themselves as divine agents or as deities themselves. The results have largely depended on circumstances and the levels of power attained by these individuals. In Alexander the great, the results were, unless one was Persian, generally neutral or positive. In Hitler they were devastating on a massive scale. With Messrs. Applewhite and Koresh tragedies occurred, but on a much smaller scale. Some of Ms. Lieder´s claims put her in league with these last two, but luckily she doesn´t have her believers ensconced in a compound. Keeping in mind the cult/religious aspects of Zetatalk, an analysis of these claims clearly shows a messianic mindset.
• She claims to be a "chosen one of the Zeta gods."
• She claims to have exclusive access and to speak for the Zeta gods.
• She claims to be able to deliver humanity from the Planet X end times.
• She claims to be fighting against agents of evil that are out to spread disinformation and prevent the populace from accepting Zetacult´s truth.
• Like Osiris, Bohidarma, Jesus and other message bringers, she claims to have suffered or gone through a trail to become the chosen one.
This quote is from the May 13, 2003 edition of Coast to Coast AM with George Noory:
"Because we could rely on her at this point in time. Uh, after years of, of intense pressure, um, ah, trying to gut her, ah, from every angle that affects a human being, um, to, ah, give up, walk away, um, close down her psyche, alter her message, um, make mistakes, uh, we could rely on her not to do that…"
In addition to her transformative ordeal, she sees herself as a social or intellectual martyr for her cause, and expresses a willingness to be physically martyred as well.
• She sees herself as emulating historical characters and that she´ll be thought of as one as well. Again, from the May 13, 2003 Coast to Coast AM:
"I am Joan of Arc and Mother Theresa in essence…"
The Joan of Arc reference is a clear attempt to reinforce her martyr image as well.
• She claims to the gift of prophecy though revelations made to her when she channels the Zetas.
• She has an entire web site and publishing company dedicated to telling believers how to live their lives and what they must (move to safe area, euthanize pets) in order to make it through the Planet X end times.
It matters
People who argue against nonsense have many reasons for doing so. Some altruistically try and help their fellow man avoid being scammed out of money or pride while others just want to rid the world of kooks and kooky ideas. One of the most altruistic efforts a skeptic can make is trying to stop someone from ruining their lives or worse yet committing suicide over bogus beliefs like Planet X and the Zetacult. The arrival date for Planet X has passed, but the time for confronting Zetatalk and Nancy Lieder has not.
For more Information: Phil "Bad Astronomer" Plait has an excellent page fully debunking all things Planet X. Bad Astronomy
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/19/2005 12:12 PM
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Re: ZetaTalk Again Exposed
Subject: PX the Doomsday that Never Came
Hello,
So, we have reached it at last: the first of two important PX-related dates, assuming any date related to this event could be called ´important.´ Today, the first anniversary of the failed prediction comes to pass: PX did not appear on May 15th, 2003, and thus the debacle of Nancy Lieder’s White Lie began.
Since then, during the last year, a virtual cornucopia of excuses and failed predictions has followed. Interest had waned and fallen off, radio interviews and articles have diminished in both quantity and quality, and it appears that the fourteenth minute of fame is just about to expire.
In the midst of this, Nancy Lieder’s faith remains unshakable. PX will come; it *must* come. The Zetas are real; they *must* be real. Nancy must have some importance; *any* importance. The delusions continue, because Nancy Lieder is too afraid and too weak to simply admit that she may be wrong.
It takes strength to admit when one is in error. Grant, another of the believers, has admitted error to a limited degree. Nancy, because of the trap she laid for herself with the ´100 percent accuracy´ claim, has no such recourse. That is why, as an example, back on March 4th, the Zetas talked about the movements of Venus, when they were in fact misidentifying Mercury. Thus came the claim of ´jerking Nancy around.´ The inevitable explanation: We are testing the faith of the believers. Convert and you will be saved.
It is a powerful, seductive message, and the centerpiece of many successful religions around the world. And, like those other End Times religions, Zetatalk has the same failing: the world stubbornly refuses to end as advertised. Thus, larger and more elaborate conspiracy theories need to be spun to protect the core idea, and when they are big enough or believed in strongly enough, disaster can come, not in the end of the world, but in the self-destruction of the believers.
It isn’t a matter of intelligence, who buys into these ideas and who doesn’t. It is some other quality, more elusive, which defines those who will believe the idea versus those who will question it. Thus, the best way of dealing with that is, in my humble opinion, the careful examination of the idea, and its supporting evidence.
One thing we, as people of science, must follow is the core rule of science. Always allow for the possibility that you are wrong. If you cannot do this simple thing, then you will start making excuses and fudging facts so that you can “explain or excuse away” anything that does not support your theory. The facts are now bent to support the theory, rather than the theory being bent to conform to the available facts.
Planet X is now supposed to have been hovering next to the Sun, from Earth’s perspective, for months. As such, it has defied the behavior of every other object we have ever observed. None of the other planets behave this way. As a matter of fact, they continue to behave as though there were no new massive object anywhere close to them. Likewise, Planet X has supposedly had the ability to decelerate, something that also has never been observed naturally.
Planet X has now supposedly stopped the Earth from rotating around the Sun, stopping us roughly at the beginning of this year. New and untested forces, completely at odds with traditional physics and supposedly impossible to test, have halted Earth; have done so in such a way that no person felt a thing, and nothing untoward happened with such an unpredictable braking. Yet, Nancy has not come up with an adequate explanation as to why the other planets continue to move in the constellations they are predicted to normally, nor why the constellations continue to rise and set on time. She is forced to imagine huge conspiracy theories, again and again, to explain that all the clocks worldwide are being secretly manipulated, so that the Sun appears to rise and set on time. She postulates a nine million mile movement, itself undetected, without considering the consequences of such a move; she merely states that she had an out of body experience, and that is all the evidence she nee!
ds.
Planet X has a second cousin, known as the Earth’s Dark Twin. Amusingly, she talked about the EDT some years back, and then the idea was sort of dropped. It took, of all things, a debunker to find it the original idea and post about it; then suddenly the Zetas were talking about it again. That always struck me as quite convenient, and I have often wondered if that little nugget hadn’t appeared until June, what her response would then have been.
The simple fact of the matter is that right now, everything in the skies is accounted for and tracks precisely where it is supposed to be. The instruments designed to do this (sextants, telescopes, and even Sundials) all demonstrate that all the various physical objects we can perceive are precisely where they have been predicted to be, from a year ago, to a decade ago, and in some cases a century or more ago.
But that doesn’t stop the believer, fascinatingly enough. Regardless of absolute concrete evidence completely contradicting the veracity of the idea, they continue to trumpet the idea unimpeded. After all, why let reality interfere? Why bother with those pesky laws of physics? Why bother to even *consider* the idea one might be wrong? Why not stay with the warm, comfortable, blanket of irrationality, rather than face reality’s cold, hard facts?
So, I understand Nancy’s absolute reluctance to deal with such issues. The idea is too important, and she is far too weak and cowardly to entertain the idea that she may be wrong, or set up any situation in which the idea of PX could be falsified. It is a pity, but it is certainly not unexpected: it is, in fact, the same pattern that cults follow all the time.
So, Nancy will continue. Some people, but far fewer than before, will continue to listen, and some, like myself, will continue to point out missteps. She will absolutely deny reality when it doesn’t conform to what the voices in her head tell her what ought to happen. She will continue to obfuscate, lie when it suits her, and forget her misses in favor of her hits. She will and has, in fact, adopted every bit of the behavior she finds so detestable in others. She has met the enemy, and it continues to be her own delusion, weakness, and cowardice. She has not the strength, nor the will, to even entertain the idea of error, and will go to her grave continually persuading herself that she was right.
The world will give her all the attention she was due, and even a quarter century from now, will have forgotten the name of one Nancy Lieder. But she need not worry; there will be a new and improved prophecy of disaster just over the horizon then; and the pattern will start anew.
I figure I may as well post some of the questions Nancy has failed to address regarding observable phenomena that thoroughly contradict her claims: there are many people who have contributed to these questions over the last few months, but Trebob did a great job of organizing them.
=Zetatalk in general:
1-.. What do starburst candy and aliens have to do with each other?
2-.. I’ve found a few pieces of unwrapped candy myself. Isn’t it possible that one piece of starburst being unwrapped was just a random occurrence?
3-.. How are the "zetas" 100% accurate, when most of their predictions have failed?
4-.. Why do you demand that issues be addressed, and then ignore any type of reply when they are?
5-.. Why do you continue to demand an issue be addressed when you have offered no evidence for it?
6-.. Why do you continue to demand an issue be addressed after it has been shown, based on all the available evidence that the issue does not exist?
7-.. Whenever someone points out evidence that you are wrong you repeat the same incorrect statement, change the subject, or throw around insults. How does this help you prove your case?

=Planet X:
8-.. Why do pictures, when taken from the same location on Earth, always show "Planet X" in different places in relation to the sun?
( [link to www.zetatalk.com] )
( [link to www.zetatalk3.com]
( [link to www.zetatalk3.com]
9-.. Why is "Planet X" only visible to cheap web cams?
10-. Why isn’t "Planet X" visible in equipment designed to look for similar objects?
11-. Why can I recreate all your "Planet X" photos using any available light source?
( [link to home.insightbb.com]
12-. Whether you trusted the source or not, how is it you were able to mistake a kite for a planet?
( [link to www.zetatalk.com]
13-. Why is a picture of a kite one of the best pictures you have to prove the existence of "Planet X"?
14-. You have made the claim that "Planet X" is 4 times the size of Venus "and it is probably at a distance that is not any closer than Venus gets to us in its normal transit" ( [link to www.zetatalk.com] The diameter of Venus is roughly 12,102 kilometers. Therefore "Planet X" would have to be 4 X 12,102 km in diameter. This would make "Planet X" 48,408 kilometers in diameter. Earth just for comparison is 12,756 km in diameter. You are therefore saying that "Planet X" is roughly the size of Uranus (51,118 km in diameter) or Neptune (49,528 km in diameter). Ground based telescopes are capable of seeing these planets as faint points of light. The maximum distance from Earth to Neptune is 4,686,510,980 km. The maximum distance from the Earth to Venus is 261,039,880 km. Neptune is roughly 17.9 times farther out than Venus. If it is so large and so much closer to us why can’t our ground based telescopes see "Planet X"?
15-. If "Planet X" is as large and close as you say it is, why isn’t it visible to the unaided eye at this time?
16-. How can something that large and close, dust cloud or not, give "an impression of something almost as large as the Moon"? ( [link to www.zetatalk.com]
17-. Why does light from "Planet X" behave differently than any other light in the observed universe?
18-. What evidence do you have to support the supposed behavior of light from "Planet X"?
19-. Why hasn’t there been even one picture or description of "Planet X" on your site that cannot be .d as a lens artifact, atmospheric effect, obvious fake, or man made object?
20-. In May 2003, on the Coast-to-Coast AM radio program, you made the claim that "Planet X" was "to the left of the sun at dawn and to the left of the sun at sunset". An object to the left of the sun at sunrise will be to the right of the sun at sunset. How is your statement possible?
21-. All of the phenomenon you point to here on Earth are perfectly normal and hardly evidence of another planet. Why have you never been able to offer any concrete evidence of "Planet X"?
22-. Every other observed planet continues to move exactly as predicted. Why hasn’t "Planet X" affected them, as you say it has affected Earth?

=Astronomy:
23-. Do you know how to set up astronomy programs for your latitude, longitude, time zone, and altitude above sea level?
24-. These programs when configured properly show that everything in the night sky is exactly where it should be, even when working with a database 6 or more years old. Why are all the stars, constellations, and planets in the right place if Earth isn’t moving along normally in its orbit?
25-. As we moved into the months of March and April in 2004, you made the claim that the Sun was rising higher in the sky. This is normal for the Northern Hemisphere at that time of year. How does this prove that Earth is not moving in its normal orbit?
26-. As the months started getting colder in 2003, you made the claim that the Sun was rising lower in the sky. Again, this is perfectly normal for winter in the Northern Hemisphere. How does this prove that Earth is not moving in its normal orbit?
27-. As we head towards autumn 2004 in the Northern Hemisphere, the Sun starts rising lower in the sky and the weather starts getting colder. This is once again a normal occurrence. Will you still make the claim that this is because of the influence of "Planet X"?
28-. If the Earth has been moved out of its normal orbit why do the go-to drives on telescopes continue to function and track perfectly?
29-. How can every amateur and professional astronomer be involved in a massive worldwide cover up without someone coming forward?
30-. How many amateur astronomers do you think there are?
31-. You have made the claim that SOHO pictures have been coming from archives lately. Why does the face of the sun when viewed with a telescope and solar filter match up perfectly with the newest MDI images from the SOHO website?
32-. You have claimed that NASA will post doctored SOHO images to show Venus passing across the face of the sun on June 8, 2004. This event will be visible to anyone with a telescope and the proper filters or viewing equipment, except for those living in the western United States, western Canada, Hawaii, Antarctica and the tip of South America ( [link to www.space.com] Why would NASA need to use doctored SOHO images for this event?
33-. How can different Space Agencies predict and plot spacecraft courses years in advance, within a few kilometers, without the "repulsion force" even figuring into their calculations?
34-. How would the skies behave differently without the "repulsion force"?
35-. Sir Isaac Newton’s laws of motion and universal law of gravitation explain why the Moon does not crash into Earth, why the planets do not crash into the Sun, and so on. Why is the "repulsion force" necessary in any of these models?

=Geology:
36-. You claim that you see "patterns" in the near real time data taken from the USGS website ( [link to aslwww.cr.usgs.gov] It says at the top of that page "this data updates automatically every 30 minutes". The data could be altered in that amount of time. You have also made the claim that archived data from the USGS is doctored to keep it looking normal. Why would the archived data be changed and not the near real time data?
37-. Why are you the only one who can see these "patterns" in earthquake data?
38-. How can you be certain that data from the USGS Live Internet Seismic Server has not been altered before it gets posted, as you claim has been done with pictures from SOHO?
39-. What year(s) are you using as your baseline to point out an increase in earthquake activity?
40-. You have recently claimed making predictions about EQ data. What patterns would have convinced you that you were incorrect?
=Earth’s Dark Twin:
41-. Why isn’t Earth’s Dark Twin visible now?
42-. If Earth has actually halted in its orbit, where do the Zetas say EDT should appear?
43-. Why don’t the other planets have dark twins?
44-. Why did you forget to mention EDT for months, until a debunker brought up an old post?
45-. And, finally: Is there any evidence you can imagine, of any kind whatsoever, that would allow you to come to the conclusion that you and the Zetans are mistaken?
At any rate, as in the past, Nancy’s answers to these observations will no doubt continue to be a resounding silence; speaking more eloquently than she or I could.
At one point, Nancy wrote: "The Earth’s dark twin, approaching from behind her, has scant months to reach her and create a crisis. Earth stopping on Dec 25 allows for a full half orbit by this twin by June 25, 2004, but the crisis will occur sooner and for many reasons."
Well, as of today, there are only 24 more days left until the Venus Transit on June 8th; an astronomical event that could *not* be taking place unless everything were moving exactly as predicted, from predictions over a century old; an astronomical event that Nancy implied would fail to occur altogether or be long after the supposed shifting of the poles. I am not certain what Nancy’s explanations will be; she has claimed in advance that past pictures will be used (even though none exist) and that SOHO pictures will be faked, even though SOHO is not necessary to view this event. I think the crisis she foretold is happening right now, but not for reality, nor the debunkers. The crisis that is happening involves the faith of the few believers Nancy has left.
And, thus, here we are. Reality has once again spoken, just as it did a year ago, and, alas, it seems to continually contradict Nancy and the Zetans at every turn. I shall continue to wonder at how much one can deny reality in spite of truly overwhelming evidence, but then I remind myself that there are, indeed, a few Flat Earthers still left, as well. I should wonder at why Nancy seems to so carefully, and so proudly, follow in such deluded footsteps.
PX: The Religion. It really is all that is left to the idea.
Jonathan
-It doesn´t matter what I believe. What matters is what I can prove-
From: Jonathan
Date: May 16th, 2004
Subject: RE: Moon out of Place
About that: I saw Nancy and other´s observations claiming this; so I took the initiative back in March and actually emailed the Laser Ranging Project at the Center for Space Research at McDonald Observatory at the Univ. of Texas; specifically asking about the Moon being out of place or having ´fallen on its side´. These people fire a laser at the Moon, bouncing the laser off a mirror that was set up by the astronauts, to very carefully measure the speed of light, and the distances involved. About a week after I wrote, I got this response:
---------------------
If anyone feels that the moon has "fallen on its side", he or she needs to ask him or herself why such an event has not been front page news. It would be pretty hard to cover up, and would be the story of the century or millennium!
Perhaps this person is seeing the crescent moon at sunrise or sunset and is interpreting this as the moon being on its side. The person could be
shown a diagram of the orbit of the moon with regard to the earth and the
sun. This could be found in an introductory astronomy text.
I am not sure what recent publications on lunar laser ranging I could
point you to. Since this is a long term project, there are relatively few
publications in sources a layman would be able to find. The data itself
may be available, but is basically the round-trip time of flight to the
moon and the time at which the laser fired. This would be hard to use
without a knowledge of the lunar ephemerides (i.e., predictions of
position). I can assure you that we have been using the same long-term
ephemerides for the last 10-20 years and have yet to see valid round trip
travel times that differ from those expected by more than 20-30
nanoseconds (about 20-30 feet round trip)! We also have pointing
predictions from the same ephemeris that are good to 1/2000th the distance
across the lunar disk. If the moon were to lay on its side we would
definitely have pointing problems (and probably range problems) that
would preclude our obtaining data!
We range the moon for 15 - 45 minutes at a time, during which time we try
to range to 1-4 of the reflectors. We would like to range each of the
reflectors 2-3 times a day during first and third quarters. That never
happens. We typically get 5 or so successful sessions each month with a
mix of reflectors. Personnel schedules, weather, other priorities and the
technical difficulties of ranging the moon prevent taking all the data we
would like to have. One of the "other priorities" is ranging to about
20-25 artificial satellites.
-----------------------
So it *appears* that the Moon is where it ought to be, as any deviation could be measured in *meters.*. I am not certain what Nancy is seeing; but as I have posted to her many times before; I´d join the local amateur astronomers for a good, hard look. :)

-It doesn´t matter what I believe. What matters is what I can prove!
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11/19/2005 01:21 PM
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Re: ZetaTalk Again Exposed
You think I have time to read through all that?
Circuit Breaker

User ID: 2782
United States
11/19/2005 02:24 PM
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Re: ZetaTalk Again Exposed
That´s far too much information to sort through, I´m still trying to figure out what the hell Nancy was saying in this statement:

"So, not only did we have all these live seismos go blank, during that period, but somebody let me know that HAARP magnometers or whatever they’re called, in Alaska, there’s several, where the N. Pole is, they read several emanations from the Sun and where the compasses are pointing and the like, kind of went wild, spiked at that time. "
A voice of reason in a world of woo-woos.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 32785
United States
11/20/2005 10:18 PM
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Re: ZetaTalk Again Exposed
Is there anymore?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 14027
United States
11/20/2005 11:36 PM
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Re: ZetaTalk Again Exposed
Don´t hold your breath waiting for an answer..
EXPOSED NOW (OP)
User ID: 32785
United States
11/21/2005 01:41 PM
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Re: ZetaTalk Again Exposed
I HAVE TO SAY THAT THIS WAS GOOD READING.

I HAVE READ A FEW THINGS OF NANCY AND WAS WONDERING WHERE SHE WAS COMING FROM.... NOW I KNOW... SHE IS NUTS

ALL HER BABBLE IS COMPLETLY EXPOSED HERE WITH MORE THAN ONE OPINION.......

ANYONE WHO REALLY BELIVES ZETATALK SHOULD READ THIS TREAD AND TRY AND REALLY ANSWER THE QEUSTIONS POSEDED AND EXPOSED......
Nancy (nli)
User ID: 42578
United States
11/21/2005 01:50 PM
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Re: ZetaTalk Again Exposed
All this stuff has been addressed over and over again, but just keeps getting asked like it hasn´t.
These shreaks would love to have me spend my days going that, but I have better things to do.

For those wanting the facts laid out in a step by step guided tour, go through the Blog radio archives and listen to the hour long segments. It´s all there. Start with the Pole Shift in Prophecy and Legend, Aug 1, 2005. For those who can´t listen, I have webbed the scripts for the hours, so you can, presumably read.

Except for my shreaking detractors here, they don´t read even when they get an answer to their own questions.
Circuit Breaker

User ID: 2782
United States
11/21/2005 02:09 PM
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Assuming you´re really Nancy, you´ve never answered a question yet.
A voice of reason in a world of woo-woos.
Idiots Abound

User ID: 2118
United States
11/21/2005 02:15 PM
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Re: ZetaTalk Again Exposed
I made it to the fifth paragraph of the very first post before I read a question:

"Why do you listen to somebody who is rattling on, making claims, and it may be or may not be valid."


MY NAME ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION!!!!!!!
God loves you, and so do I!

De Colores
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 11890
United States
11/21/2005 08:39 PM
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Re: ZetaTalk Again Exposed
thanks op for the great info.... I´m sure nancy is quite red in the face

:zkk_exanis:
reborn seeker
User ID: 40125
Australia
11/21/2005 08:49 PM
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Re: ZetaTalk Again Exposed
I don´t think flying triangles are military. Anything else, take your pick.
Earth420

User ID: 260
United States
11/21/2005 09:02 PM

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Re: ZetaTalk Again Exposed
alienship


Here we go again...

but thats okay, I guess 1541...

I doubt alot here wont be reading through all that... those who have made their decision on how they feel about zetatalk have made it what they have, whats known is that regardless of what your beliefs are you can still beleive in Planet X existing, and not zetatalk... or that we are in the end times... and not zetatalk... so either way we can have that in common...

Planet X exists

and

We are in the end times...


Peace
Love to Mother Earth Always
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 2298
United States
11/21/2005 09:07 PM
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Re: ZetaTalk Again Exposed
A lot of my questions were answered by just reading www.zetatalk.com instead of only what the detractors are saying it says. It takes too much time to respond to all the questions above, but if you read www.zetatalk.com and don´t find the answers there to your satisfaction, then so be it. There are no two people in the world who will see everything exactly the same way.
who cares
User ID: 42658
United States
11/21/2005 09:27 PM
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Re: ZetaTalk Again Exposed
right...
zeta in spanish is a mexican mafia druglord
and i dont think they would be to happy about you using their name but anyway, you said they answer all the question; right?
so when is the end of the world?
dcomp
Nancy Lieder is Mentally Ill
User ID: 4579
United States
11/25/2005 04:33 PM
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Re: ZetaTalk Again Exposed
How sad for this elderly woman to need to create such discourse and negative karma for the world around her. Nancy Lieder is truly one of the most twisted sick individuals I have ever had the displeasure to chance upon. From her thirst for human suffering to her lies about Planet X she is more an attention whore than mental patient.


This woman is sick and needs help!
Get Well Nancy Lieder
User ID: 11890
United States
11/28/2005 08:38 PM
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Re: ZetaTalk Again Exposed
I agree, Nancy Lieder is sick and needs some sort of help, either by a doctor or a States Attorney.
Earth420

User ID: 260
United States
11/28/2005 09:24 PM

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Re: ZetaTalk Again Exposed
You know even though some people think your crazy does it mean you should be locked up as a mental case?

They will let you go because you are... yes you are SANE...

Why arent we locked up? Because we are sane... maybe not in your book but... here we are!

band

Peace
Love to Mother Earth Always
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 44554
United States
11/29/2005 10:07 PM
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Re: ZetaTalk Again Exposed
Poor Nancy and Earth420 just can´t stand to answer questions, I wonder why?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 43583
United States
11/29/2005 10:16 PM
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Re: ZetaTalk Again Exposed
ZetaCrap wrong again!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 45145
Canada
11/29/2005 10:20 PM
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Re: ZetaTalk Again Exposed
Circuit Stupid strikes again!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 44554
United States
11/29/2005 11:08 PM
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Re: ZetaTalk Again Exposed
9346 what is your point, what is your argument or do you just call names?
My Favorite Thread
User ID: 45370
United States
11/30/2005 03:19 PM
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Re: ZetaTalk Again Exposed
This is my favorite thread on GLP, I wounder how long it will last before it is deleted by the PTB under the spell of Nancy Lieder.

headbang
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 45370
United States
11/30/2005 07:21 PM
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Re: ZetaTalk Again Exposed
Are you retarded Earth420? No one can understand your gibberish? If you are retarded then I´ll cut you some slack but damn, if your not, for Gods sake get some grammar lessons. The majority of us here can´t understand what your trying to say!

offtopic


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