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PROOF JESUS IS NOT GOD THE FATHER !! BUT THE GLORIFIED AND EXALTED SON

 
Neim-Ya'shar
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04/16/2012 09:46 PM
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PROOF JESUS IS NOT GOD THE FATHER !! BUT THE GLORIFIED AND EXALTED SON
Many Christians say that JESUS IS GOD AND OUR FATHER ,AND ALSO GOD THE SON.The scriptures say differently in many places.

Please one of you explain what this means!

However, no one knows the day or hour when these things will happen, not even the angels in heaven or the Son himself. Only the Father knows.


"This is Jesus speaking by the way!
1st john chapter 5
5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

John 14:28
28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.


rev chapter 19

19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus:worship God[the father]: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy



**THE ANSWER IS THIS***

MANY OF YOU DON'T STUDY YOUR SCRIPTURE BUT LOVE TO ARGUE THAT WHICH YOU KNOW NOTHING OF.I HAVE TAKEN THE TIME THAT YOU MAY NOT HAVE THE HARD WORK OF SEARCHING OUT THE SCRIPTURES FOR YOURSELF AND GIVEN IT TO YOU ON A TRAY WITH MUCH LOVE.


**THIS IS JESUS PROCLAIMING TO THE ISRAELITES THE ORDER OF THE HEaVeNLIES**

23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven."MESSIAH IS CONFIRMING THAT THE FATHER IS IN HEAVEN AND IS THE ONLY FATHER"

23:10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ."MESSIAH IS CONFIRMING HE IS LORD OVER US"


"Lord is master"



"You heard that I said to you, 'I go away, and I will come to you ' If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced because I go to the Father, for the Father is greater (meizon) than I." John 14:28




Divine – can someone be divine and not be God Himself? The answer is yes.

[link to www.thefreedictionary.com]

[link to ardictionary.com]

-
What does divine mean?

1. a. Having the nature of, OR being a deity.

b. Of, relating to, emanating from, or being the expression of a deity

c. Being in the service or worship of a deity; sacred.


2. Superhuman; godlike.


3. a. Supremely good or beautiful; magnificent

b. Extremely pleasant; delightful


4. Heavenly; perfect.


5. Of, or belonging to God


6. proceeding from God

-



Lord – someone who “owns” us – we are his possession. Also a king and husband.


A man of high rank in a feudal society or in one that retains feudal forms and institutions, especially:

a. A king.

b. A territorial magnate.

c. The proprietor of a manor. Landowner, property owner.

d. A man of renowned power or authority.

e. A man who has mastery in a given field or activity.

f. Archaic -The male head of a household.

g. Archaic- A husband. – A Hebrew custom for a wife to call her husband Lord.




The scriptures that describe Jesus and His relationship with His Father God–


Look for the obvious patterns – let us keep things simple…….God is not the author of confusion. The relationship is well described. It is NOT a “mystery.”

Are God and Jesus the same person?

Are they equal?

Who does Jesus say He is?

Who is God?

-


Mat 17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice [God’s] out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

*** The speaker is God. He is calling Jesus his son. There are 2 persons here.

-


Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life

*** If there is a father, and he has a son, there are 2 people.
-

Jhn 3:35 The Father loves the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.


Jhn 4:34 Jesus said unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish His work.

****Jesus is obedient and subservient to God.


-

Jhn 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

***Jesus has no power on His own. He submits to the Father, who has the power.
-

Jhn 6:32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven.Jhn 6:33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

***God -the Father- is the sender of the bread from heaven. Jesus is the bread.

-


Jhn 6:38 [Jesus speaking] For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

Jhn 6:39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

***Jesus is sent by the Father in heaven. The one who sends is greater than the one sent. So they are NOT equal.


-

Jhn 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God [the Father]; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.*** God is the Father. Jesus is sent by God the Father.


-

Jhn 10:36 [Jesus speaking] Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemed; because I said, I am the Son of God?


*** Jesus is saying He is divine, because God is His Father. However, He is NOT saying that He IS God. Jesus is divine, because His Father is divine, just like you are human because your father is human. However, Jesus is NOT his Father, who is God. There is only one God.


-

Jhn 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
Jhn 12:50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.


*** Jesus gets His words from his Father
-


Jhn 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make OUR abode with him.


*** Jesus and the Father are two different people. They are not the same person.


-

Jhn 17:1 These words spoke Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

Jhn 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

Jhn 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee [Father] the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

*** The only true God is the Father. Jesus is just who God sent.


-

Jhn 20:17 Jesus said unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and [to] my God, and your God.

***God is the Father, the son is Jesus

-

Rom 1:3 Concerning his [God’s] Son, Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh

*** “Lord” is a title which means owner. We belong to Jesus, if he is our Lord. And Jesus is God’s son.


-

Rom 1:4 And declared [to be] the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead


Rom 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called [to be] saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

*** It does not say “Jesus, our God.” It only says Jesus is Lord. He is Lord because He is God’s Son.


-

1Cr 8:6 But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.

*** Jesus can be Lord without being God. It does not say, “there is but one God, who is the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit.”


-

2Cr 1:2 Grace [be] to you and peace from God our Father, and [from] the Lord Jesus Christ

***God is the Father, the son is Jesus

-

2Cr 1:3 Blessed [be] God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort;

*** It does NOT say “the God, Jesus Christ.”


-

Gal 1:3 Grace [be] to you and peace from God the Father, and [from] our Lord Jesus Christ

***God is the Father, the son is Jesus

-

Eph 6:23 Peace [be] to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ

***God is the Father, the son is Jesus
-

Eph 1:3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ

***God is the Father, the son is Jesus

-

Eph 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him

***God is the Father, the son is Jesus

-

Eph 3:9 And to make all [men] see what [is] the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ

-
Eph 3:14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ

-Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all

*** The Father is God.


-

Phl 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God

Phl 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men

Phl 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross

Phl 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name

**** Jesus is the image of God, and He is divine, but he set this aside to obey His Father God. He was in a “lower” position to begin with, and God exalted him. So he was not originally “equal” with God, if he had to be exalted. God is already exalted.

-

Phl 2:11 And [that] every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father

***God is the Father, the son is Jesus

-

Col 1:3 We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you

***God is the Father, the son is Jesus

-

Col 1:15 Who [Jesus] is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature

*** Jesus is the image of God, as he reflects God’s glory to man.


-

Col 2:2 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ

***God is the Father, the son is Jesus

-

Col 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sits on the right hand of God

***There are 2 seats, not one, Jesus sits on the right side of God in heaven.

This means they are not the same person.

-


1Th 3:11 Now God himself and our Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way unto you

***God is the Father, the Son is Jesus
-

2Th 2:16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given [us] everlasting consolation and good hope through grace

God is the Father, the Son is Jesus

-

1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus

God is the Father, the son is Jesus



Hbr 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spoke in time past unto the fathers by the prophets

Hbr 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds

Hbr 1:3 Who being the brightness of [his] glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high

Hbr 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they

Hbr 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

The Son was “made” better than the angels, as the image of the Father. Once he did the work of purging us of our sins, THEN he sat on the right hand of the Father. That means he did not have that exalted position BEFORE he came to earth and sacrificed Himself.


-

1Pe 1:3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead




God is the Father, the Lord is Jesus


2Pe 1:17 For he received from God the Father honor and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased


God is the Father, the Lord is Jesus


Rev 2:26 And he that overcomes, and keeps my works unto the end, to him will I [Jesus] give power over the nations:
Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Jesus received the power from the Father and then will give it to us. They are not equal in power.



Rev 5:1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals

Rev 5:5 And one of the elders said unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof

*** God is the one on the throne who has the book of seals. The lion of Judah (Jesus) is qualified to open the book. Jesus does not sit on the throne. Only God sits there.


IN MY CONCLUSION I LEAVE YOU WITH THIS

According to the Bible, only the Father is God. Jesus is His spirit Son, who was made higher than the angels, and shares, as a true Son, in the divine nature of his Father God, who is the God of Jesus. This is the same as any human son, would share in the same humanity as his own father. As his son, Jesus possesses his Father’s divine essence, and power. Jesus reflects the image of a great multifaceted Father God, who is much greater than he is. God is King. Jesus is His prince of peace. This should not be that hard to imagine. God can create and organize his heaven any way he wishes.


God has exalted Jesus now to a higher position, to be at his right hand, because of his great act of self sacrifice.


God is holy. Jesus is also holy. Jesus is the first, sacred, holy, pure possession, and son of His Father, who wishes now to exalt his Son in love to the earth. Jesus was the Father’s first son in spirit. If we repent of our sins, and turn from them, and accept Jesus as God’s son, we can also share in what God has for us, as spiritual sons and daughters of God. If we reject Jesus for who He is, we will break the heart of God, and then this heavenly destiny cannot be ours.


As for guilt, we ALL crucified Him. We ALL have sinned, and need forgiveness. Jesus is the way to this forgiveness.


So, the jewish people are right and the Muslims are right. There is only one God. There are not 3 gods. People’s eternal destiny depends on how they treat God’s Son, Jesus, Yeshua, and future Messiah of the land of Israel, who will hopefully return soon, to gather his brethren for a time of freedom, deliverance, and peace.

Jesus is therefore divine, as God’s son, but His Father is God. Jesus is Lord of this earth. The Father and Son are not equal. As Jesus said, the Father is greater than He is.


Last Edited by Neim-Ya'shar on 04/07/2014 08:58 AM
1 But these took this counsel among themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the heathen, and go forth into a further country, where never mankind dwelt,
42 That they might there keep their statutes, which they never kept in their own land.
43 And they entered into Euphrates by the narrow places of the river.
44 For the most High then shewed signs for them, and held still the flood, till they were passed over.
45 For through that country there was a great way to go, namely, of a year and a half: and the same region is called Arsareth.
46 Then dwelt they there until the latter time; and now when they shall begin to come,
:knoup:
Neim-Ya'shar (OP)

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Re: PROOF JESUS IS NOT GOD THE FATHER !! BUT THE GLORIFIED AND EXALTED SON
5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of *him*

LETS LOOK UP "BEGAT" STRONG'S CONCORDANCE

a) to engender
c) of God making Christ his son



so him that begat is no other than "GOD THE FATHER"

and he who is begotten[jesus] of him [the father]



**I REST MY CASE**

Last Edited by Neim-Ya'shar on 04/16/2012 10:02 PM
1 But these took this counsel among themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the heathen, and go forth into a further country, where never mankind dwelt,
42 That they might there keep their statutes, which they never kept in their own land.
43 And they entered into Euphrates by the narrow places of the river.
44 For the most High then shewed signs for them, and held still the flood, till they were passed over.
45 For through that country there was a great way to go, namely, of a year and a half: and the same region is called Arsareth.
46 Then dwelt they there until the latter time; and now when they shall begin to come,
:knoup:
Daniel's Seventieth Seven
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04/16/2012 09:49 PM
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Re: PROOF JESUS IS NOT GOD THE FATHER !! BUT THE GLORIFIED AND EXALTED SON
.



John 14:28
.. my Father is greater than I.




/\
Neim-Ya'shar (OP)

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04/16/2012 09:52 PM
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Re: PROOF JESUS IS NOT GOD THE FATHER !! BUT THE GLORIFIED AND EXALTED SON
.



John 14:28
.. my Father is greater than I.




/\
 Quoting: Daniel's Seventieth Seven 1071051


Thats a good one too,but I really want to see who has the gall to explain this away...lol
1 But these took this counsel among themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the heathen, and go forth into a further country, where never mankind dwelt,
42 That they might there keep their statutes, which they never kept in their own land.
43 And they entered into Euphrates by the narrow places of the river.
44 For the most High then shewed signs for them, and held still the flood, till they were passed over.
45 For through that country there was a great way to go, namely, of a year and a half: and the same region is called Arsareth.
46 Then dwelt they there until the latter time; and now when they shall begin to come,
:knoup:
Anonymous Coward
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04/16/2012 09:54 PM
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Re: PROOF JESUS IS NOT GOD THE FATHER !! BUT THE GLORIFIED AND EXALTED SON
I don't think you understand the concept of spirit, soul and body. We are made in God's image. What is that "image"? One person with a spirit, a soul and a body. I am not three people or two people but one being. Just as Jesus was God in the flesh.
1COR15:22

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Re: PROOF JESUS IS NOT GOD THE FATHER !! BUT THE GLORIFIED AND EXALTED SON
Christians say that JESUS IS GOD THE FATHER.The scriptures say differently in many places.

Please one of you explain what this means!


"This is Jesus speaking by the way!
1st john chapter 5
5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:


Because if the father judgeth no man and you say jesus is the father is the Gospel lying to us or is it that you are delusional.

Who is the son then? Or is judgement committed to your own son if you have one?
 Quoting: Neim-Ya'shar


Neim. I agree. Jesus is the son and not God the Father. I like your posts. Thanks
Anonymous Coward
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04/16/2012 09:56 PM
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Re: PROOF JESUS IS NOT GOD THE FATHER !! BUT THE GLORIFIED AND EXALTED SON
.



John 14:28
.. my Father is greater than I.




/\
 Quoting: Daniel's Seventieth Seven 1071051


Of course the Father was/is greater than Jesus in the flesh when He had that statement. The spirit is greater than the flesh. Just as we await our spiritual bodies, which are greater than our fleshly bodies.
Anonymous Coward
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04/16/2012 09:57 PM
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Re: PROOF JESUS IS NOT GOD THE FATHER !! BUT THE GLORIFIED AND EXALTED SON
Jesus overcame the fleshly body and was without sin, the perfect example of what is to happen to us. He was God in the flesh. Who else could have been a perfect sinless sacrifice or who else is righteous but the Father?
Daniel's Seventieth Seven
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Re: PROOF JESUS IS NOT GOD THE FATHER !! BUT THE GLORIFIED AND EXALTED SON
.



John 14:28
.. my Father is greater than I.




/\
 Quoting: Daniel's Seventieth Seven 1071051


Of course the Father was/is greater than Jesus in the flesh when He had that statement. The spirit is greater than the flesh. ...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13584098



And in Heaven,


Does He sit on the throne? or on the right hand..


Mark 16:19
So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.




?
Neim-Ya'shar (OP)

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04/16/2012 10:03 PM
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Re: PROOF JESUS IS NOT GOD THE FATHER !! BUT THE GLORIFIED AND EXALTED SON
Christians say that JESUS IS GOD THE FATHER.The scriptures say differently in many places.

Please one of you explain what this means!


"This is Jesus speaking by the way!
1st john chapter 5
5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:


Because if the father judgeth no man and you say jesus is the father is the Gospel lying to us or is it that you are delusional.

Who is the son then? Or is judgement committed to your own son if you have one?
 Quoting: Neim-Ya'shar


Neim. I agree. Jesus is the son and not God the Father. I like your posts. Thanks
 Quoting: 1COR15:22


Well said and blessed are you
1 But these took this counsel among themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the heathen, and go forth into a further country, where never mankind dwelt,
42 That they might there keep their statutes, which they never kept in their own land.
43 And they entered into Euphrates by the narrow places of the river.
44 For the most High then shewed signs for them, and held still the flood, till they were passed over.
45 For through that country there was a great way to go, namely, of a year and a half: and the same region is called Arsareth.
46 Then dwelt they there until the latter time; and now when they shall begin to come,
:knoup:
Neim-Ya'shar (OP)

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04/16/2012 10:04 PM
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Re: PROOF JESUS IS NOT GOD THE FATHER !! BUT THE GLORIFIED AND EXALTED SON
.



John 14:28
.. my Father is greater than I.




/\
 Quoting: Daniel's Seventieth Seven 1071051


Of course the Father was/is greater than Jesus in the flesh when He had that statement. The spirit is greater than the flesh. Just as we await our spiritual bodies, which are greater than our fleshly bodies.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13584098


confused
1 But these took this counsel among themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the heathen, and go forth into a further country, where never mankind dwelt,
42 That they might there keep their statutes, which they never kept in their own land.
43 And they entered into Euphrates by the narrow places of the river.
44 For the most High then shewed signs for them, and held still the flood, till they were passed over.
45 For through that country there was a great way to go, namely, of a year and a half: and the same region is called Arsareth.
46 Then dwelt they there until the latter time; and now when they shall begin to come,
:knoup:
Neim-Ya'shar (OP)

User ID: 10465331
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04/16/2012 10:04 PM
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Re: PROOF JESUS IS NOT GOD THE FATHER !! BUT THE GLORIFIED AND EXALTED SON
Jesus overcame the fleshly body and was without sin, the perfect example of what is to happen to us. He was God in the flesh. Who else could have been a perfect sinless sacrifice or who else is righteous but the Father?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13584098


when you say us what do you mean?Becaue you will never overcome with that view!

5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Last Edited by Neim-Ya'shar on 04/16/2012 10:06 PM
1 But these took this counsel among themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the heathen, and go forth into a further country, where never mankind dwelt,
42 That they might there keep their statutes, which they never kept in their own land.
43 And they entered into Euphrates by the narrow places of the river.
44 For the most High then shewed signs for them, and held still the flood, till they were passed over.
45 For through that country there was a great way to go, namely, of a year and a half: and the same region is called Arsareth.
46 Then dwelt they there until the latter time; and now when they shall begin to come,
:knoup:
1COR15:22

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04/16/2012 10:07 PM
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Re: PROOF JESUS IS NOT GOD THE FATHER !! BUT THE GLORIFIED AND EXALTED SON
Jesus overcame the fleshly body and was without sin, the perfect example of what is to happen to us. He was God in the flesh. Who else could have been a perfect sinless sacrifice or who else is righteous but the Father?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13584098


when you say us what do you mean?
 Quoting: Neim-Ya'shar


Neim, why don't people understand this in your view?
Anonymous Coward
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04/16/2012 10:09 PM
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10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:[/b[

11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;

12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.
(Hebrews 1:10-12)

Jesus is The Creator.
Neim-Ya'shar (OP)

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04/16/2012 10:13 PM
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Re: PROOF JESUS IS NOT GOD THE FATHER !! BUT THE GLORIFIED AND EXALTED SON
Jesus overcame the fleshly body and was without sin, the perfect example of what is to happen to us. He was God in the flesh. Who else could have been a perfect sinless sacrifice or who else is righteous but the Father?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13584098


when you say us what do you mean?
 Quoting: Neim-Ya'shar


Neim, why don't people understand this in your view?
 Quoting: 1COR15:22


Not my view but what the scripture been saying...There is a reason for this through pagan associations they have eliminated the father and placed the son/sun as the head.

This teaching really came from judaism as there is a lesser God AN ANGEL CALLED METATRON.He is also called the YHWH equivalent to the father

This is the whole thinking behind this and chritians have been brainwashed to even turn their eyes on scriptural evidence to believe a lie.

Last Edited by Neim-Ya'shar on 04/16/2012 10:15 PM
1 But these took this counsel among themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the heathen, and go forth into a further country, where never mankind dwelt,
42 That they might there keep their statutes, which they never kept in their own land.
43 And they entered into Euphrates by the narrow places of the river.
44 For the most High then shewed signs for them, and held still the flood, till they were passed over.
45 For through that country there was a great way to go, namely, of a year and a half: and the same region is called Arsareth.
46 Then dwelt they there until the latter time; and now when they shall begin to come,
:knoup:
Morganite

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04/16/2012 10:13 PM
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Re: PROOF JESUS IS NOT GOD THE FATHER !! BUT THE GLORIFIED AND EXALTED SON
John 14:28
.. my Father is greater than I.

/\
 Quoting: Daniel's Seventieth Seven 1071051


Of course the Father was/is greater than Jesus in the flesh when He had that statement. The spirit is greater than the flesh. Just as we await our spiritual bodies, which are greater than our fleshly bodies.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13584098


bump idk any christians saying Jesus is God the Father, Jesus is God the Son.

morganite
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04/16/2012 10:14 PM
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Re: PROOF JESUS IS NOT GOD THE FATHER !! BUT THE GLORIFIED AND EXALTED SON
Christians say that JESUS IS GOD THE FATHER.The scriptures say differently in many places.

Please one of you explain what this means!


"This is Jesus speaking by the way!
1st john chapter 5
5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:


Because if the father judgeth no man and you say jesus is the father is the Gospel lying to us or is it that you are delusional.

Who is the son then? Or is judgement committed to your own son if you have one?
 Quoting: Neim-Ya'shar


That is hard one to fathom even for me, a Christian, that God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are all the same. The only way I can think to explain it is that God can be all places and all things at one time, so He can be the 3 as well. We will all understand one day. If one can believe in aliens and ghosts, or whatever, than it shouldn't be too big of a stretch.
Anonymous Coward
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04/16/2012 10:16 PM
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Re: PROOF JESUS IS NOT GOD THE FATHER !! BUT THE GLORIFIED AND EXALTED SON
Jesus overcame the fleshly body and was without sin, the perfect example of what is to happen to us. He was God in the flesh. Who else could have been a perfect sinless sacrifice or who else is righteous but the Father?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13584098


when you say us what do you mean?Becaue you will never overcome with that view!

5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
 Quoting: Neim-Ya'shar


I'm not going to get into a Clintonesque debate with you on the meaning of the word "us." You're sounding more and more like a Pharisee with that one...

Some things I agree with what you say, but you understand more of the letter of the law and not the spirit of it, which the latter is greater tounge
Neim-Ya'shar (OP)

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04/16/2012 10:17 PM
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Re: PROOF JESUS IS NOT GOD THE FATHER !! BUT THE GLORIFIED AND EXALTED SON
Christians say that JESUS IS GOD THE FATHER.The scriptures say differently in many places.

Please one of you explain what this means!


"This is Jesus speaking by the way!
1st john chapter 5
5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:


Because if the father judgeth no man and you say jesus is the father is the Gospel lying to us or is it that you are delusional.

Who is the son then? Or is judgement committed to your own son if you have one?
 Quoting: Neim-Ya'shar


That is hard one to fathom even for me, a Christian, that God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are all the same. The only way I can think to explain it is that God can be all places and all things at one time, so He can be the 3 as well. We will all understand one day. If one can believe in aliens and ghosts, or whatever, than it shouldn't be too big of a stretch.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8437259


If peolpe study the word and pray it will becaome very clear but most people just go to church sunday to sunday and hear the same old thing over and over and never took time to read and examine the facts
1 But these took this counsel among themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the heathen, and go forth into a further country, where never mankind dwelt,
42 That they might there keep their statutes, which they never kept in their own land.
43 And they entered into Euphrates by the narrow places of the river.
44 For the most High then shewed signs for them, and held still the flood, till they were passed over.
45 For through that country there was a great way to go, namely, of a year and a half: and the same region is called Arsareth.
46 Then dwelt they there until the latter time; and now when they shall begin to come,
:knoup:
Anonymous Coward
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04/16/2012 10:18 PM
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Re: PROOF JESUS IS NOT GOD THE FATHER !! BUT THE GLORIFIED AND EXALTED SON
10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:[/b[

11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;

12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.
(Hebrews 1:10-12)

Jesus is The Creator.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14549836


Right on!!! "Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?" <John 14:9>
A Voice In The Wilderness

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04/16/2012 10:18 PM
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Re: PROOF JESUS IS NOT GOD THE FATHER !! BUT THE GLORIFIED AND EXALTED SON
Christians say that JESUS IS GOD THE FATHER.The scriptures say differently in many places.

Please one of you explain what this means!


"This is Jesus speaking by the way!
1st john chapter 5
5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:


Because if the father judgeth no man and you say jesus is the father is the Gospel lying to us or is it that you are delusional.

Who is the son then? Or is judgement committed to your own son if you have one?
 Quoting: Neim-Ya'shar


Have never seen a Christian who claims Jesus is The Father.

YHVH is a Godhead of three Persons, the Father, Jesus Christ, and Holy Spirit. All three are separate, distinct persons with their own personality. All three are God. The Father and Jesus Christ existed together since before time was time, as indicated in John 1. JEHOVAH is what you would call a 'family name' that applies to all three.

The Hebrew word 'Elohim', as found in the Torah, accurately defines the Godhead as plural as early as the first verse of the Old Testament. Genesis 1:1 reads, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." The word for God used here is 'Elohim', which literally translates 'Gods', supporting the rest of Scripture when it calls both the Father and Jesus Christ as the Creator. Just as Cherubim denotes multiple Cherubs, and Seraphim denotes multiple Seraphs, so Elohim denotes multiple persons of the Godhead, the singular being 'El' or 'Eli', as found in Scripture.

It has always been Satan's purpose to diminish and lower Jesus Christ in the eyes of the world. Unfortunately, many believers have fallen for his lie and now believe that Jesus Christ is not God. On the contrary, Scripture is clear concerning the Second Person of the Godhead, "For God was manifest in the flesh..." 1 Timothy 3:16.
The Truth About Thread: The FINAL EVENTS Of Bible Prophecy

"We here are of the conviction that the papacy is the seat of the true and real Antichrist." - Martin Luther (Aug. 18, 1520)

"While God has given ample evidence for faith, He will never remove all excuse for unbelief. All who look for hooks to hang their doubts upon will find them. And those who refuse to accept and obey God's Word until every objection has been removed, and there is no longer an opportunity for doubt, will never come to the light" (The Great Controversy, p. 527).

"Jesus did not come to change the law, but he came to explain it, and that very fact shows that it remains, for there is no need to explain that which is abrogated." - Charles Spurgeon

"Jesuit Adam Weishaupt established the modern version of the Illuminati specifically to be a front organization behind which the Jesuits could hide. After being formally abolished by Pope Clement XIV in 1773, the Jesuits used the Illuminati and other organizations to carry out their operations. Thus, the front organizations would be blamed for the trouble caused by the Jesuits."
Bill Hughes (Author of The Secret Terrorists and The Enemy Unmasked)
Neim-Ya'shar (OP)

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04/16/2012 10:19 PM
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Re: PROOF JESUS IS NOT GOD THE FATHER !! BUT THE GLORIFIED AND EXALTED SON
Jesus overcame the fleshly body and was without sin, the perfect example of what is to happen to us. He was God in the flesh. Who else could have been a perfect sinless sacrifice or who else is righteous but the Father?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13584098


when you say us what do you mean?Becaue you will never overcome with that view!

5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
 Quoting: Neim-Ya'shar


I'm not going to get into a Clintonesque debate with you on the meaning of the word "us." You're sounding more and more like a Pharisee with that one...

Some things I agree with what you say, but you understand more of the letter of the law and not the spirit of it, which the latter is greater tounge
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13584098


If I was a pharasee I will not uplift my Father and his messiah.The truth is when you people have no sound answer you start calling names and dwelve in things you have noo understanding of

This is basic 101 a no brainer ...why make it complex with your vin philosphy?

Last Edited by Neim-Ya'shar on 04/16/2012 10:20 PM
1 But these took this counsel among themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the heathen, and go forth into a further country, where never mankind dwelt,
42 That they might there keep their statutes, which they never kept in their own land.
43 And they entered into Euphrates by the narrow places of the river.
44 For the most High then shewed signs for them, and held still the flood, till they were passed over.
45 For through that country there was a great way to go, namely, of a year and a half: and the same region is called Arsareth.
46 Then dwelt they there until the latter time; and now when they shall begin to come,
:knoup:
Anonymous Coward
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04/16/2012 10:19 PM
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Re: PROOF JESUS IS NOT GOD THE FATHER !! BUT THE GLORIFIED AND EXALTED SON
It would seem that these teachings came from the "The First Book of Adam and Eve" in the Apocrypha. The first instance is found at chapter XIV, verse 4. [link to www.sacred-texts.com]

"4 "But I will. When I shall come down from heaven, and shall become flesh of thy seed, and take upon Me the infirmity from which thou sufferest, then the darkness that came upon thee in this cave shall come upon Me in the grave, when I am in the flesh of thy seed."
Daniel's Seventieth Seven
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Re: PROOF JESUS IS NOT GOD THE FATHER !! BUT THE GLORIFIED AND EXALTED SON
..



John 10:36
... I said, I am the Son of God





+
Neim-Ya'shar (OP)

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04/16/2012 10:21 PM
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Re: PROOF JESUS IS NOT GOD THE FATHER !! BUT THE GLORIFIED AND EXALTED SON
Christians say that JESUS IS GOD THE FATHER.The scriptures say differently in many places.

Please one of you explain what this means!


"This is Jesus speaking by the way!
1st john chapter 5
5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:


Because if the father judgeth no man and you say jesus is the father is the Gospel lying to us or is it that you are delusional.

Who is the son then? Or is judgement committed to your own son if you have one?
 Quoting: Neim-Ya'shar


Have never seen a Christian who claims Jesus is The Father.

YHVH is a Godhead of three Persons, the Father, Jesus Christ, and Holy Spirit. All three are separate, distinct persons with their own personality. All three are God. The Father and Jesus Christ existed together since before time was time, as indicated in John 1. JEHOVAH is what you would call a 'family name' that applies to all three.

The Hebrew word 'Elohim', as found in the Torah, accurately defines the Godhead as plural as early as the first verse of the Old Testament. Genesis 1:1 reads, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." The word for God used here is 'Elohim', which literally translates 'Gods', supporting the rest of Scripture when it calls both the Father and Jesus Christ as the Creator. Just as Cherubim denotes multiple Cherubs, and Seraphim denotes multiple Seraphs, so Elohim denotes multiple persons of the Godhead, the singular being 'El' or 'Eli', as found in Scripture.

It has always been Satan's purpose to diminish and lower Jesus Christ in the eyes of the world. Unfortunately, many believers have fallen for his lie and now believe that Jesus Christ is not God. On the contrary, Scripture is clear concerning the Second Person of the Godhead, "For God was manifest in the flesh..." 1 Timothy 3:16.
 Quoting: A Voice In The Wilderness


stick around thats is the doctrine today with no law
1 But these took this counsel among themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the heathen, and go forth into a further country, where never mankind dwelt,
42 That they might there keep their statutes, which they never kept in their own land.
43 And they entered into Euphrates by the narrow places of the river.
44 For the most High then shewed signs for them, and held still the flood, till they were passed over.
45 For through that country there was a great way to go, namely, of a year and a half: and the same region is called Arsareth.
46 Then dwelt they there until the latter time; and now when they shall begin to come,
:knoup:
1COR15:22

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04/16/2012 10:23 PM
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Re: PROOF JESUS IS NOT GOD THE FATHER !! BUT THE GLORIFIED AND EXALTED SON
Jesus overcame the fleshly body and was without sin, the perfect example of what is to happen to us. He was God in the flesh. Who else could have been a perfect sinless sacrifice or who else is righteous but the Father?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13584098


when you say us what do you mean?Becaue you will never overcome with that view!

5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
 Quoting: Neim-Ya'shar


I'm not going to get into a Clintonesque debate with you on the meaning of the word "us." You're sounding more and more like a Pharisee with that one...

Some things I agree with what you say, but you understand more of the letter of the law and not the spirit of it, which the latter is greater tounge
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13584098


If I was a pharasee I will not uplift my Father and his messiah.The truth is when you people have no sound answer you start calling names and dwelve in things you have noo understanding of

This is basic 101 a no brainer ...why make it complex with your vin philosphy?
 Quoting: Neim-Ya'shar


Neim is no pharisee. He seeks the truth and shares his knowledge. You should appreciate his efforts. God the Father is seperate and above Jesus the son. Jesus even admits this. Jesus recieves his power from the father. This is not a shared office.
Anonymous Coward
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04/16/2012 10:23 PM
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Re: PROOF JESUS IS NOT GOD THE FATHER !! BUT THE GLORIFIED AND EXALTED SON
Scripture is quite clear that Jesus has always obeyed the Father's will.

It is God the Father that has elevated the Son because in the glorying of the Son the Father is glorified.

These are conceptual physical relationships used to try and communicate to humans who God is. He knew that we could understand certain types of relationships so he established them for us primarily so we could have a better understanding of who He is.

The Father Son. The Husband Wife. and between believers the Brother and Sister.

All you see are mere a shadow of what is real and is going on in the spiritual. In the end the Spiritual is the only thing real and all we see with our senses is vapor.

Do not look with your eyes. They decieve. See with your soul and look for your spirit to be reborn through belief on the Saviour the Lord Jesus Christ for your salvation. Then and only then can you begin to understand. Otherwise it is untenable.
Morganite

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04/16/2012 10:24 PM
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Re: PROOF JESUS IS NOT GOD THE FATHER !! BUT THE GLORIFIED AND EXALTED SON
Have never seen a Christian who claims Jesus is The Father.

YHVH is a Godhead of three Persons, the Father, Jesus Christ, and Holy Spirit. All three are separate, distinct persons with their own personality. All three are God. The Father and Jesus Christ existed together since before time was time, as indicated in John 1. JEHOVAH is what you would call a 'family name' that applies to all three.

The Hebrew word 'Elohim', as found in the Torah, accurately defines the Godhead as plural as early as the first verse of the Old Testament. Genesis 1:1 reads, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." The word for God used here is 'Elohim', which literally translates 'Gods', supporting the rest of Scripture when it calls both the Father and Jesus Christ as the Creator. Just as Cherubim denotes multiple Cherubs, and Seraphim denotes multiple Seraphs, so Elohim denotes multiple persons of the Godhead, the singular being 'El' or 'Eli', as found in Scripture.

It has always been Satan's purpose to diminish and lower Jesus Christ in the eyes of the world. Unfortunately, many believers have fallen for his lie and now believe that Jesus Christ is not God. On the contrary, Scripture is clear concerning the Second Person of the Godhead, "For God was manifest in the flesh..." 1 Timothy 3:16.
 Quoting: A Voice In The Wilderness

bump

AMEN !


morganite
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04/16/2012 10:26 PM
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Re: PROOF JESUS IS NOT GOD THE FATHER !! BUT THE GLORIFIED AND EXALTED SON
Christians say that JESUS IS GOD THE FATHER.The scriptures say differently in many places.

Please one of you explain what this means!


"This is Jesus speaking by the way!
1st john chapter 5
5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:


Because if the father judgeth no man and you say jesus is the father is the Gospel lying to us or is it that you are delusional.

Who is the son then? Or is judgement committed to your own son if you have one?
 Quoting: Neim-Ya'shar


I will clear this up for you with these verses:

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
me
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04/16/2012 10:29 PM
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Re: PROOF JESUS IS NOT GOD THE FATHER !! BUT THE GLORIFIED AND EXALTED SON
I buy into the new age crap that we each have a CHRIST or divine self. Trying to explain God, well that is a fools game, we can't explain our self yet...hahaha

We are all connected somehow, as each atom pulls on every other atom. We are the watchers, without this world would have no meaning or existence. Of course, this is just a belief I have and it works for me.

I also respect all religions and consider even the atheism on a spiritual path. To question everything is divine.

Truth, now that is hard to come by. I see many claiming to own it, but at best grasp onto only a fragment.

Good luck on your search, may you be happy with it.
Neim-Ya'shar (OP)

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04/16/2012 10:29 PM
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Re: PROOF JESUS IS NOT GOD THE FATHER !! BUT THE GLORIFIED AND EXALTED SON
Christians say that JESUS IS GOD THE FATHER.The scriptures say differently in many places.

Please one of you explain what this means!


"This is Jesus speaking by the way!
1st john chapter 5
5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:


Because if the father judgeth no man and you say jesus is the father is the Gospel lying to us or is it that you are delusional.

Who is the son then? Or is judgement committed to your own son if you have one?
 Quoting: Neim-Ya'shar


Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14554579


Thank you! and you folks must keep sharing the word with each aother and tear down false teachings on the forum when you see them...bless you
1 But these took this counsel among themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the heathen, and go forth into a further country, where never mankind dwelt,
42 That they might there keep their statutes, which they never kept in their own land.
43 And they entered into Euphrates by the narrow places of the river.
44 For the most High then shewed signs for them, and held still the flood, till they were passed over.
45 For through that country there was a great way to go, namely, of a year and a half: and the same region is called Arsareth.
46 Then dwelt they there until the latter time; and now when they shall begin to come,
:knoup:

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