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The Palestinians are descendants of the ancient Israelites --EUROPEAN jewish people ARE GOG/MAGOG ZIONIST AND JESUS DENIERS

 
Anonymous Coward
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04/17/2012 01:11 PM
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The Palestinians are descendants of the ancient Israelites --EUROPEAN jewish people ARE GOG/MAGOG ZIONIST AND JESUS DENIERS
The Palestinians are descendants of the ancient Israelites
17
The jewish people now living in Israel and other places in the world are not at all descendants of the ancient people who inhabited the so called Kingdom of Judea.



A Palestinian and an Israeli arguing over the disputed land.
Speaking at a cabinet meeting held in Tel Hai last february, Israeli PM Netanyahu said “Our existence depends not only on the IDF or our economic resilience – it is anchored in our store of knowledge and the national sentiment that we will bestow upon the coming generations, in our ability to justify our connection to the land.”

Netanyahu was so eloquent in his statement and he managed to touch upon the problematic status quo of the state of Israel when he mentioned Israel’s ability to justify its connection to the occupied land of Palestine. But is it true? Are the Israelis of today the descendants of the ancient Israelites? Does merely being a jewish give anyone the right to claim connection to the land of Palestine and its history? I think it is up to historians not politicians to decide that.

Only by understanding history can we understand why things are the way they are right now. Many of the past events and histories in the world have shaped what we are as of now.

Historians agree- despite the scanty archeological findings- that the ancient Israelites inhabited part of Palestine- or the southern Levant- thousands of years ago. But so did the Phoenicians, the Canaanites, Philistines , the Hittites and the Aramaeans. Nevertheless we do not find some Canaanite people – whom were at least mentioned in the Mesopotamian and Ancient Egyptian texts. – appearing in modern age after thousands of years had elapsed with claims to the right to return to the land of their ancestors.

How did the ancient Israelites live in that part of the ancient Near East?

Their old Bible states that they lived in a monarchy of a political and military power close enough to be the rival of magnificent kingdoms like the Egyptian, the Babylonian and the Hittites. But history and archeology says different.

The Biblical Israelites
In his book “the Bible unearthed” The archeologist Israel Finkelstein states that although the book of Samuel, and initial parts of the book of Kings, portray Saul, David and Solomon ruling in succession over a powerful and cosmopolitan united kingdom of Israel and Judah, Finkelstein regards modern archaeological evidence as showing that this is a pious fiction.


The Israelites lived as herders and farmers who never left their land.
The united kingdom of Israel and Judah depicted in the bible was nothing more than a sparsely populated rural region, nomadic tribes at best until the 7th century BCE. And the whole region was an Egyptian protectorate extending north to where Syria is today.

And by following the Biblical story of the Israelites we will find out that they were driven out of their land in the form of mass exile in 607 BCE by the Babylonians, and from Judea in 70 CE by the Roman Empire. Somehow we are more concerned with the second mass exile or what is better known as the “Diaspora” as it is the Zionists` pretext for claiming the right to return to their homeland.

According to Shlomo Sand in his bestseller book “ The invention of the Jewish people”, the description of the jewish people as a wandering nation in exiles, “who wandered across seas and continents, reached the ends of the earth and finally, with the advent of Zionism, made a U-turn and returned en masse to their orphaned homeland,” is nothing but “national mythology.” For the ancient Israelite never left their homeland nor wandered across different parts of the world in what is known as the “Diaspora”

Inventing the Diaspora
“After being forcibly exiled from their land, the people remained faithful to it throughout their Dispersion and never ceased to pray and hope for their return to it and for the restoration in it of their political freedom” – thus states the preamble to the Israeli Declaration of Independence. This is also the quotation that opens the third chapter of Sand’s book, entitled “The Invention of the Diaspora.” Sand argues that the Jewish people’s exile from its land never happened.

“The supreme paradigm of exile was needed in order to construct a long-range memory in which an imagined and exiled nation-race was posited as the direct continuation of ‘the people of the Bible’ that preceded it,” Sand explains. Under the influence of other historians who have dealt with the same issue in recent years, he argues that the exile of the Jewish people is originally a Christian myth that depicted that event as divine punishment imposed on the jewish people for having rejected the Christian gospel.

Sand added “I started looking in research studies about the exile from the land – a constitutive event in Jewish history, almost like the Holocaust. But to my astonishment I discovered that it has no literature. The reason is that no one exiled the people of the country. The Romans did not exile peoples and they could not have done so even if they had wanted to. They did not have trains and trucks to deport entire populations. That kind of logistics did not exist until the 20th century. From this, in effect, the whole book of shlomo sand was born: in the realization that Judaic society was not dispersed and was not exiled.”

In his historical research, sand attempts to prove that the jewish people now living in Israel and other places in the world are not at all descendants of the ancient people who inhabited the so called Kingdom of Judea. Their origins, according to him, are in varied peoples that converted to Judaism during the course of history, in different corners of the Mediterranean Basin and the adjacent regions. Not only are the North African jewish people for the most part descendants of pagans who converted to Judaism, but so are the jewish people of Yemen (remnants of the Himyar Kingdom in the Arab Peninsula, who converted to Judaism in the fourth century) and the Ashkenazi jewish people of Eastern Europe (refugees from the Kingdom of the Khazars, who converted in the eighth century).

The same conclusion was adopted by Arthur Koestler in his famous book The Thirteenth Tribe (1976). It advances the controversial thesis that the modern Jewish population originating from North / East Europe and Russia including their descendants, or Ashkenazim, are not descended from the historical Israelites of antiquity, but from Khazars, a people originating and populating the Caucasus region (historical Khazaria) who converted to Judaism in the 8th century and later voluntarily migrating or were forced to move westwards into current Eastern Europe (Russia, Hungary, Ukraine, Poland, Belarus, Lithuania, Germany and other places outside the Caucasus region) before and during the 12th and 13th century when the Khazar Empire was collapsing.
dance
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04/17/2012 01:12 PM
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Re: The Palestinians are descendants of the ancient Israelites --EUROPEAN jewish people ARE GOG/MAGOG ZIONIST AND JESUS DENIERS
Thread: 99.99% of all top media pundits, bankers, judges, business men, presidents, politicians in the west are Jewish or have Jewish ancestry

Idol1
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04/17/2012 01:15 PM
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Re: The Palestinians are descendants of the ancient Israelites --EUROPEAN jewish people ARE GOG/MAGOG ZIONIST AND JESUS DENIERS
A Palestinian and an Israeli arguing over the disputed land.
Speaking at a cabinet meeting held in Tel Hai last february, Israeli PM Netanyahu said “Our existence depends not only on the IDF or our economic resilience – it is anchored in our store of knowledge and the national sentiment that we will bestow upon the coming generations, in our ability to justify our connection to the land.”

Netanyahu was so eloquent in his statement and he managed to touch upon the problematic status quo of the state of Israel when he mentioned Israel’s ability to justify its connection to the occupied land of Palestine. But is it true? Are the Israelis of today the descendants of the ancient Israelites? Does merely being a jewish give anyone the right to claim connection to the land of Palestine and its history? I think it is up to historians not politicians to decide that.

Only by understanding history can we understand why things are the way they are right now. Many of the past events and histories in the world have shaped what we are as of now.

Historians agree- despite the scanty archeological findings- that the ancient Israelites inhabited part of Palestine- or the southern Levant- thousands of years ago. But so did the Phoenicians, the Canaanites, Philistines , the Hittites and the Aramaeans. Nevertheless we do not find some Canaanite people – whom were at least mentioned in the Mesopotamian and Ancient Egyptian texts. – appearing in modern age after thousands of years had elapsed with claims to the right to return to the land of their ancestors.

How did the ancient Israelites live in that part of the ancient Near East?

Their old Bible states that they lived in a monarchy of a political and military power close enough to be the rival of magnificent kingdoms like the Egyptian, the Babylonian and the Hittites. But history and archeology says different.

The Biblical Israelites
In his book “the Bible unearthed” The archeologist Israel Finkelstein states that although the book of Samuel, and initial parts of the book of Kings, portray Saul, David and Solomon ruling in succession over a powerful and cosmopolitan united kingdom of Israel and Judah, Finkelstein regards modern archaeological evidence as showing that this is a pious fiction.


The Israelites lived as herders and farmers who never left their land.
The united kingdom of Israel and Judah depicted in the bible was nothing more than a sparsely populated rural region, nomadic tribes at best until the 7th century BCE. And the whole region was an Egyptian protectorate extending north to where Syria is today.

And by following the Biblical story of the Israelites we will find out that they were driven out of their land in the form of mass exile in 607 BCE by the Babylonians, and from Judea in 70 CE by the Roman Empire. Somehow we are more concerned with the second mass exile or what is better known as the “Diaspora” as it is the Zionists` pretext for claiming the right to return to their homeland.

According to Shlomo Sand in his bestseller book “ The invention of the Jewish people”, the description of the jewish people as a wandering nation in exiles, “who wandered across seas and continents, reached the ends of the earth and finally, with the advent of Zionism, made a U-turn and returned en masse to their orphaned homeland,” is nothing but “national mythology.” For the ancient Israelite never left their homeland nor wandered across different parts of the world in what is known as the “Diaspora”

Inventing the Diaspora
“After being forcibly exiled from their land, the people remained faithful to it throughout their Dispersion and never ceased to pray and hope for their return to it and for the restoration in it of their political freedom” – thus states the preamble to the Israeli Declaration of Independence. This is also the quotation that opens the third chapter of Sand’s book, entitled “The Invention of the Diaspora.” Sand argues that the Jewish people’s exile from its land never happened.

“The supreme paradigm of exile was needed in order to construct a long-range memory in which an imagined and exiled nation-race was posited as the direct continuation of ‘the people of the Bible’ that preceded it,” Sand explains. Under the influence of other historians who have dealt with the same issue in recent years, he argues that the exile of the Jewish people is originally a Christian myth that depicted that event as divine punishment imposed on the jewish people for having rejected the Christian gospel.

Sand added “I started looking in research studies about the exile from the land – a constitutive event in Jewish history, almost like the Holocaust. But to my astonishment I discovered that it has no literature. The reason is that no one exiled the people of the country. The Romans did not exile peoples and they could not have done so even if they had wanted to. They did not have trains and trucks to deport entire populations. That kind of logistics did not exist until the 20th century. From this, in effect, the whole book of shlomo sand was born: in the realization that Judaic society was not dispersed and was not exiled.”



In his historical research, sand attempts to prove that the jewish people now living in Israel and other places in the world are not at all descendants of the ancient people who inhabited the so called Kingdom of Judea. Their origins, according to him, are in varied peoples that converted to Judaism during the course of history, in different corners of the Mediterranean Basin and the adjacent regions. Not only are the North African jewish people for the most part descendants of pagans who converted to Judaism, but so are the jewish people of Yemen (remnants of the Himyar Kingdom in the Arab Peninsula, who converted to Judaism in the fourth century) and the Ashkenazi jewish people of Eastern Europe (refugees from the Kingdom of the Khazars, who converted in the eighth century).

The same conclusion was adopted by Arthur Koestler in his famous book The Thirteenth Tribe (1976). It advances the controversial thesis that the modern Jewish population originating from North / East Europe and Russia including their descendants, or Ashkenazim, are not descended from the historical Israelites of antiquity, but from Khazars, a people originating and populating the Caucasus region (historical Khazaria) who converted to Judaism in the 8th century and later voluntarily migrating or were forced to move westwards into current Eastern Europe (Russia, Hungary, Ukraine, Poland, Belarus, Lithuania, Germany and other places outside the Caucasus region) before and during the 12th and 13th century when the Khazar Empire was collapsing.


YouTube – Veterans Today -Ashkenazi jewish people are NOT descendents of the Biblical Israelites!
History’s final word
So this is how history unfolds to refute the Biblical narration of a kingdom of David and Solomon, negates the Diaspora ever happened and tells us that the current jewish people are mainly the descendants of Khazar tribes, berber tribes in north Africa and Arabic tribes in Yemen who converted to Judaism and have no strong Genetic link to the jewish people who lived in Palestine during Roman times something that Israel now is trying to prove otherwise by financing Genetic clinical trials that only revealed Genetic similarities amongst jewish people expected of people with the common ancestral origins mentioned above.


A flag and the memories of the lost land of Palestine.
The UN records show that there are 5 million uprooted Palestinians today do not have the right of return to their homes despite the fact that Ashkenazi jewish people (European, with no ties to biblical Israel other than their adoption of the Jewish religion) do.

History negates that the ancient Israelites ever left their home land and approves the thesis of their conversion to Islam in the 7th century and in doing so undermines the historical connection of modern jewish people to the land of modern day Palestine.

History says the chances that the Palestinians are descendants of the ancient Judaic people are much greater than the chances that modern Israelis are its descendents.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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04/17/2012 01:20 PM
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Re: The Palestinians are descendants of the ancient Israelites --EUROPEAN jewish people ARE GOG/MAGOG ZIONIST AND JESUS DENIERS
Palestinians Are True Ancient Israelites Descended From Abraham- 90% Modern Nation of Israel Are White Greek Converts To Judaism
Palestinians are the original people of the land, the ancient Israelites never left. They just turned to Christianity, or backslide, and now follow the worshiping ways of the surrounding nations, just like they forsook the Lord so often in the Old Testament.

90% of the modern Israeli public are descended from white, Ashkenazi Greek, converts to Judaism in the last 1200 years. You are only a 'True jewish' by birth inheritance by direct lineage from Abraham. You are not a 'True jewish' if you converted to follow the ways and beliefs of the jewish people.
The true ancestors of Abraham are the Palestinians, when God returns to Earth, he will be coming to save the backslidden true Israelites the Palestinians, from the white, Greek Gentile oppressors, who have removed the true Israel far from their land, that God gave them thousands of years ago.

Joel 3
The Nations Judged

1 "In those days and at that time, when I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem (Palestinians),

2 I will gather all nations and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat. There I will enter into judgment against them concerning my inheritance, my people Israel (Palestinians), for they scattered my people among the nations and divided up my land.

3 They cast lots for my people and traded boys for prostitutes; they sold girls for wine that they might drink.

4 "Now what have you against me, O Tyre and Sidon and all you regions of Philistia(Modern Israel Nation of White Gentile Greeks)? Are you repaying me for something I have done? If you are paying me back, I will swiftly and speedily return on your own heads what you have done.

5 For you took my silver and my gold and carried off my finest treasures to your temples.

6 You sold the people of Judah and Jerusalem (Palestinians) to the Greeks (White Gentile converts to Judaism), that you might send them far from their homeland.

7 "See, I am going to rouse them (Palestinians) out of the places to which you sold them, and I will return on your own heads (Modern Israel White Greek Converts) what you have done.

8 I will sell your sons and daughters to the people of Judah (Palestinians), and they will sell them to the Sabeans (French), a nation far away." The LORD has spoken.
Anonymous Coward
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04/17/2012 01:22 PM
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Re: The Palestinians are descendants of the ancient Israelites --EUROPEAN jewish people ARE GOG/MAGOG ZIONIST AND JESUS DENIERS
The Palestinians are descendants of the ancient Israelites
17
The jewish people now living in Israel and other places in the world are not at all descendants of the ancient people who inhabited the so called Kingdom of Judea.



A Palestinian and an Israeli arguing over the disputed land.
Speaking at a cabinet meeting held in Tel Hai last february, Israeli PM Netanyahu said “Our existence depends not only on the IDF or our economic resilience – it is anchored in our store of knowledge and the national sentiment that we will bestow upon the coming generations, in our ability to justify our connection to the land.”

Netanyahu was so eloquent in his statement and he managed to touch upon the problematic status quo of the state of Israel when he mentioned Israel’s ability to justify its connection to the occupied land of Palestine. But is it true? Are the Israelis of today the descendants of the ancient Israelites? Does merely being a jewish give anyone the right to claim connection to the land of Palestine and its history? I think it is up to historians not politicians to decide that.

Only by understanding history can we understand why things are the way they are right now. Many of the past events and histories in the world have shaped what we are as of now.

Historians agree- despite the scanty archeological findings- that the ancient Israelites inhabited part of Palestine- or the southern Levant- thousands of years ago. But so did the Phoenicians, the Canaanites, Philistines , the Hittites and the Aramaeans. Nevertheless we do not find some Canaanite people – whom were at least mentioned in the Mesopotamian and Ancient Egyptian texts. – appearing in modern age after thousands of years had elapsed with claims to the right to return to the land of their ancestors.

How did the ancient Israelites live in that part of the ancient Near East?

Their old Bible states that they lived in a monarchy of a political and military power close enough to be the rival of magnificent kingdoms like the Egyptian, the Babylonian and the Hittites. But history and archeology says different.

The Biblical Israelites
In his book “the Bible unearthed” The archeologist Israel Finkelstein states that although the book of Samuel, and initial parts of the book of Kings, portray Saul, David and Solomon ruling in succession over a powerful and cosmopolitan united kingdom of Israel and Judah, Finkelstein regards modern archaeological evidence as showing that this is a pious fiction.


The Israelites lived as herders and farmers who never left their land.
The united kingdom of Israel and Judah depicted in the bible was nothing more than a sparsely populated rural region, nomadic tribes at best until the 7th century BCE. And the whole region was an Egyptian protectorate extending north to where Syria is today.

And by following the Biblical story of the Israelites we will find out that they were driven out of their land in the form of mass exile in 607 BCE by the Babylonians, and from Judea in 70 CE by the Roman Empire. Somehow we are more concerned with the second mass exile or what is better known as the “Diaspora” as it is the Zionists` pretext for claiming the right to return to their homeland.

According to Shlomo Sand in his bestseller book “ The invention of the Jewish people”, the description of the jewish people as a wandering nation in exiles, “who wandered across seas and continents, reached the ends of the earth and finally, with the advent of Zionism, made a U-turn and returned en masse to their orphaned homeland,” is nothing but “national mythology.” For the ancient Israelite never left their homeland nor wandered across different parts of the world in what is known as the “Diaspora”

Inventing the Diaspora
“After being forcibly exiled from their land, the people remained faithful to it throughout their Dispersion and never ceased to pray and hope for their return to it and for the restoration in it of their political freedom” – thus states the preamble to the Israeli Declaration of Independence. This is also the quotation that opens the third chapter of Sand’s book, entitled “The Invention of the Diaspora.” Sand argues that the Jewish people’s exile from its land never happened.

“The supreme paradigm of exile was needed in order to construct a long-range memory in which an imagined and exiled nation-race was posited as the direct continuation of ‘the people of the Bible’ that preceded it,” Sand explains. Under the influence of other historians who have dealt with the same issue in recent years, he argues that the exile of the Jewish people is originally a Christian myth that depicted that event as divine punishment imposed on the jewish people for having rejected the Christian gospel.

Sand added “I started looking in research studies about the exile from the land – a constitutive event in Jewish history, almost like the Holocaust. But to my astonishment I discovered that it has no literature. The reason is that no one exiled the people of the country. The Romans did not exile peoples and they could not have done so even if they had wanted to. They did not have trains and trucks to deport entire populations. That kind of logistics did not exist until the 20th century. From this, in effect, the whole book of shlomo sand was born: in the realization that Judaic society was not dispersed and was not exiled.”

In his historical research, sand attempts to prove that the jewish people now living in Israel and other places in the world are not at all descendants of the ancient people who inhabited the so called Kingdom of Judea. Their origins, according to him, are in varied peoples that converted to Judaism during the course of history, in different corners of the Mediterranean Basin and the adjacent regions. Not only are the North African jewish people for the most part descendants of pagans who converted to Judaism, but so are the jewish people of Yemen (remnants of the Himyar Kingdom in the Arab Peninsula, who converted to Judaism in the fourth century) and the Ashkenazi jewish people of Eastern Europe (refugees from the Kingdom of the Khazars, who converted in the eighth century).

The same conclusion was adopted by Arthur Koestler in his famous book The Thirteenth Tribe (1976). It advances the controversial thesis that the modern Jewish population originating from North / East Europe and Russia including their descendants, or Ashkenazim, are not descended from the historical Israelites of antiquity, but from Khazars, a people originating and populating the Caucasus region (historical Khazaria) who converted to Judaism in the 8th century and later voluntarily migrating or were forced to move westwards into current Eastern Europe (Russia, Hungary, Ukraine, Poland, Belarus, Lithuania, Germany and other places outside the Caucasus region) before and during the 12th and 13th century when the Khazar Empire was collapsing.
dance
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 770867


YOU MY FRIEND....ARE AN IDIOT!!! THE PALESTINIANS ARE THE BASTARD CHILDREN IF ISHMIEL!!!!!...YA, KNOW ..ABRAHAMS HANDMAIDEN THAT HE HAD A CHIL WITH BECAUSE HE DIDNT LISTEN TO GOD WHEN THE ANGEL TOLD HIM THAT SARAH WOULD GIVE BIRTH AT 90....WHICH IS WHY GOD CALLED ISHMIEL "HEATHENISTIC"...AND SAID THAT HIS PPL WOULD BE A HEATHENISTIC PPL AND THATS WHY HE WOULD NOT GIVE THE LAND OF ISRAEL TO HIM...BUT TO ABRAHAMS SECOND BORN!!!!....
YOU PPL, WHO DO NOT KNOW THE WORD OF GOD, BUT DARKEN WITH YOUR WHORDOMS WILL FIND OUT SOON ENOUGH THE WORDS THAT COME OUT OF YOUR MOUTH YOU WILL GIVE AN ACCOUNT FOR ALL YOUR FALSE TEACHINGS , AND THE BLOOD THAT IS ON YOUR HANDS WHEN YOU STAND BEFORE THE KING OF KINGS AND THE LORD OF LORDS JESUS CHRIST!!!
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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04/17/2012 01:25 PM
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Re: The Palestinians are descendants of the ancient Israelites --EUROPEAN jewish people ARE GOG/MAGOG ZIONIST AND JESUS DENIERS
Preoccupied with their own terrorist war at home, Israelis have paid less attention than the rest of the world to the campaign against Afghanistan's ruling Taliban.

Just as well, says an Israeli anthropologist -- because the Taliban might have had Jewish origins.

According to Shalva Weil, there is considerable body of evidence suggesting that the Pathan ethnic group, from which most of the Taliban are drawn, is one of the fabled "10 lost tribes" of ancient Israel. Indeed, as recently as half a century ago, Pathan tribesmen themselves claimed that they were descended from wandering jewish people.

Writing in the weekly magazine "Jerusalem Report," Weil cites a report delivered to Israeli President Yitzhak Ben-Zvi in the 1950s, based on the encounter of a Jewish traveler with Pathan nomads.

The Pathans, who are also called Pashtuns, were said to wear cloaks decorated with a symbol that closely resembled the lamps lit by jewish people at Hanukkah. The traveler also reported that they donned prayer shawls similar to those of their Jewish counterparts in the West, insisted that men grow side curls, and lit votive candles on Friday evenings, the beginning of the Jewish Sabbath.

Some anthropologists have also found Pathan families that circumcise sons on the eighth day after their birth, in keeping with Jewish custom.

A legend of the Pathans, as recounted to Weil when she did field research among them in the 1980s along the Pakistani border, tells of a "Jeremiah," a son of King Saul -- but not the more familiar Jeremiah of the Old Testament -- who sired a daughter named "Afghana." Her descendants, the legend maintains, made their way to the Central Asian land that now bears her name.

A Jewish connection of more recent and well-documented origin leads just across Afghanistan's western frontier to the Iranian city of Mashhad. It is the traditional home of the "Mashhadi jewish people," who were forcibly converted to Shiite Islam after a pogrom in 1839.

Like some of their distant Sephardic cousins in Islamic Spain, the Mashhadi jewish people behaved in public as faithful Muslims -- even making the pilgrimage to Mecca when they could afford it -- but clung secretly to Judaism at home.

Hundreds of them emigrated to the Shiite region around Herat in western Afghanistan over the years, which is today a major stronghold of the anti- Taliban resistance.

The U.S. war against terrorism, in short, may be unfolding amid a second war between two lost tribes of Israel.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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04/17/2012 01:36 PM
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Re: The Palestinians are descendants of the ancient Israelites --EUROPEAN jewish people ARE GOG/MAGOG ZIONIST AND JESUS DENIERS
Scouting for stories in Afghanistan’s hinterlands, a Jewish American reporter and her Muslim Pashtun interpreter, discover they may have ancestors in common


Is One of the Lost Tribes the Taliban?
It was Seder night in Kabul, and the bread most afflicting me was the pile of nan—Afghan flatbread—that our cook kept placing on the table just before the guests were due to arrive. I repeatedly removed the offending plate and explained to the cook—already baffled by my trying to give him the week off—that there would be no bread served with this meal. He’d nod to show he understood, but a few minutes later, I’d find the same pile of nan back in its usual place.

I had planned for this Seder even before leaving home on the second of what would be many reporting trips to Afghanistan, tucking a box of matzah in my suitcase and wrapping two Haggadot inside my flak jacket. But celebrating the Jewish people’s liberation from slavery in Egypt was proving more complicated than just setting a proper table. My attempt to banish the nan and the cook’s determination to return it was just one of many challenges.

This was 2002, after all, in the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan, which until the U.S invasion only months earlier had been controlled by the fiercely repressive Islamist Taliban. Although driven from Kabul, the Taliban were hardly gone from the country and memories of their rigid rule—and their Ministry of Virtue and Vice—were fresh. A colleague who was co-hosting the Seder and I dared not reveal to our Afghani staff and guests—interpreters, drivers and guards—that they were actually helping us observe a Jewish holiday. Instead, we related the Passover story in metaphorical terms: Just as you here in Afghanistan are celebrating your freedom from the oppression of the Taliban and the terror of civil war, we commemorate the day of our freedom from slavery. This is a feast to show our love of liberty, our thanks to God.

The Afghanis ate it up—and reached for seconds of my charoset.

The only guest in on the secret was my guide and interpreter, Mashal, a member of Afghanistan’s prominent Pashtun people. Gentlemanly son of a judge, author of two books of Pashto poetry and master of four other languages, Mashal had been running an Internet café in Pakistan soon after 9/11 when a colleague of mine coaxed him into journalism.

A few days before the Seder, I found myself in an unexpected conversation with Mashal. He and I were on one of our long car trips through the ragged slate-gray Afghan hinterlands, scouting stories about Al Qaeda’s evasion of U.S. forces and local warlords who were besting America’s plans for the region. Somewhere between Khost and Kabul, Mashal raised a subject I had considered best to avoid in these precincts.

“I, I, I want to find out more about the jewish people,” he said from the front seat, craning his neck to talk to me as we bounced over the rocky road like hot popcorn kernels. I didn’t respond; instead, I continued to stare out the window at the packed-mud buildings dotting the remote landscape, careful as ever to avoid direct eye contact with the men we passed. “Because I believe that they are related to us,” Mashal continued, “and that maybe we, we were once jewish people.”

“What?” I asked, as if I hadn’t quite heard him, buying more time to think. I knew there were peoples, from remote pockets of Africa to the far corners of East Asia, who believe they are descended from the Israelites. I had not, though, heard this mentioned in regard to the Pashtuns, who claim a proud martial history in Central Asia that long predates Islam. Also called Pakhtuns or Pathans, they are the largest ethnic group in Afghanistan, whose populace also includes other Muslim groups like the Hazaras, Tajiks and Uzbeks. More notoriously, Pashtuns make up the ranks of the Taliban.

Was I to believe that the likes of Mullah Omar—the Taliban luminary who ordered public executions and floggings, made burka-wearing law, and gave succor to Osama bin Laden—possessed even a molecule of Jewish ancestry?

“Once jewish people?” I finally replied, turning to him and pulling up my ever-slipping head scarf. “What do you mean?”

“We have all kinds of traditions that no other Muslims have,” he said, “like Saturday was the rest day. And many of the words in our language are not related to any other language in the region. And I, I think maybe that’s because they are from Hebrew!” Mashal punctuated that last word with a pleasing emphasis. His love of poetry had a way of seeping into the sweet rhythms of his speech.

Well, if there’s something you want to know, I might be able to help,” I said, half-shocked to hear myself utter these words to an Afghan. “I’m Jewish.”

“Really?” He was exuberant. “You?” Our driver turned to ask what had caused this sudden burst of enthusiasm, but Mashal dismissed him with a shake of the head and a vague smile. Lowering his tone a notch, he said, “Wow. That’s great. I want to ask you a lot of questions.”

Mashal’s discretion confirmed my instinct that I could trust him. Still, such confidence was not to be given lightly. This was hardly two months after the murder of Daniel Pearl in neighboring Pakistan, an event that shook many intrepid reporters to the core. Suddenly, to not hide one’s religious identity seemed reckless. Like the thousands of landmines still embedded in Afghanistan’s parched landscape, Jewishness could be hazardous to your survival.

Later that day, I gingerly walked over one such landmine-strewn plain of cracked earth, dry and gritty as nan. At regular intervals, we had driven past gaggles of bright fabric flapping flirtatiously in the wind. Tied to thin wooden poles in the ground, they looked from afar like sails attached to the masts of sunken schooners trying to catch the breeze and move on. Mashal said they marked graves, but I couldn’t see how that could be.

I asked our driver to stop so I could take a photograph. He shrugged and obliged, telling me to watch my step. As I neared the poles, my feet crunching the dirt beneath me, I could see that Mashal had been right. The flapping fabrics were head scarves from women who had buried loved ones here, colorful signs of remembrance for those they mourned.

Up close, I found something even more surprising: stones scattered on nearly every grave. A memory from early childhood rushed through my head—one hand in my mother’s, the other reaching down to place a pebble on my grandfather’s tombstone. I returned to the car in wonderment, retracing my footsteps as I’d learned to do in a land as rich in mines as more fortunate countries are in coffee beans.

I asked Mashal what the story was: Why the stones on the graves? This was a peculiar Pashtun way of marking a visit to the deceased, he said.

“But that’s what jewish people do,” I told him quietly. In all my travels, I had never come across another people who preferred pebbles over flowers on a loved one’s grave.

“Really?” Mashal said, surprised, “I thought only we, we Pashtuns did that.”

Less than an hour later, we passed through a typically poor village on the road back toward Kabul. Paint markings on some of the buildings caught my eye. They resembled five-branch menorahs. I asked Mashal what they were.

“Oh, we call it nars,” he replied. “People in the countryside put this up to mark a celebration, such as a birth or wedding.”

“Do all the peoples in Afghanistan do that, or just the Pashtuns?” Iasked.

“This is only for the Pashtuns,” he said.

It seemed uncanny. Menorah…nars. They sounded as if they shared the same root. And unlike the Star of David, which did not originate with the jewish people, the menorah symbol had never belonged to another people.

Mashal and I raised our eyebrows and looked at each other. In the weeks that followed, we were to come across further peculiarities of Pashtun customs that would ring familiar. There is the tradition among many rural women, for instance, of lighting candles on a Friday. They then hide them in a basket—perhaps to conceal their glow from censorious mullahs. There are wedding customs: Some Afghans marry under a cloth that is similar to the chuppa. Another Afghan cloth, the uniquely Pashtun shoulder drape for men that doubles as a ritual prayer mat, is called a tolia; Both its name and function, I told Mashal, reminded me of tallit.

From then on, Mashal and I made a point of paying visits to Afghanistan’s Jewish sites: Gardez, where it’s rumored that a Jewish warrior named Gabur built an ancient fortress; Ghazni Province, where Pashtuns make pilgrmoment/images to the tomb of a “Jewish saint” called Zikria; and Balkh Province, an ancestral area and possible cradle of Pashtun culture that once boasted a large Jewish population that disappeared long before the country’s other Jewish communities in Herat and Kabul dwindled after 1948 and died out in the 1970s. Mashal thought the Pashtuns might have acquired their name from Balkh pronounced pakh-tu by most Afghans.

There are several stories about how the Pashtun people—spread throughout Afghanistan, Pakistan and India—came by their Jewish roots. Many Pashtun, Mashal pointed out, believe themselves to be descended from a legendary figure named Qais Abdu Rashid, who might have been from one of the Israelite tribes. Another theory is that Pashtuns are descended from Pithon, a tribal descendant mentioned in First Chronicles, 8:35.

Curiosity piqued, I spoke to experts and consulted every book I could find on Afghanistan and the lost tribes. It seems Mashal and I were far from the first to wonder. One can find Muslim and Jewish references from the 13th to the 18th centuries attesting to the presence of lost tribes of Israel in the Pashtun territories in Afghanistan and Pakistan. These include the 1612 classic called Makhzan-i-Afghani, which was translated into English in the early 19th century as History of the Afghans.

Hardly a contemporary academic or journalistic work—from Sir Olef Caroe’s The Pathans of 50 years ago to the most recent histories of Afghanistan—fails to mention it. British colonial official Mountstuart Elphinstone, writing in the early 19th century, compared Pashtu to Hebrew in his book, The Kingdom of Caubul. Israel’s second president, Yitzhak Ben-Zvi, believed in the Jewish lineage of the Pashtuns, as did Zahir Shah, the last king of Afghanistan. Once, when asked about his ancestors, Shah claimed that the royal family descended from the Tribe of Benjamin.

. Their parents or grandparents, they would tell me, had always said, that of all Afghan peoples, they could expect Pashtuns to treat them well on account of their shared heritage. In Jerusalem, I met with Rabbi Eliyahu Avichail, founder of Amishav (“My People Returns”), a group tJews I spoke with who had grown up in Afghanistan also immediately identified with Pashtun-Jewish linkshat brings supposed descendants of the lost tribes—such as the B’nei Menashe in India and the Shin-lung in Burma—to Israel. He flipped to the map on the back cover of his book, The Tribes of Israel, and with his finger traced for me the tribes’ putative path from Palestine into Iran, eastward across Afghanistan, and eventually into India and China.

Avichail’s claims brought to mind other intriguing details that Mashal had mentioned like some of the provisions of the complex Pashtun code of ethics, pashtunwali, which have no apparent connection to Islam and are not shared by other peoples of the region. These include exacting standards for hospitality and the requirement that a man marry his brother’s widow—a stipulation also found in the Torah.

Recently, I had a long phone conversation about Pashtun origins with Dr. Navras Jaat Aafreedi, an Indian historian on a research fellowship this year at Tel Aviv University. He’s been studying Muslim groups in India that have traditions of Israelite descent. In one—a Pashtun tribe called the Bani Yisrael—everyone shares the last name of Yisraeli. According to Aafreedi, they believe that they are the descendants of a Jewish sahabi (“friend” in Arabic) of the Prophet Mohammed.

“Why do they claim Israelite origins, if there is nothing to support it?” he asked me. “Why do they take it seriously, and why are there others who take them seriously?”

Tudor Parfitt, a British professor of Jewish studies and author of The Lost Tribes of Israel, subjects the lost tribe theory to an unforgiving academic light apparent in his recent book’s subtitle: The History of a Myth. Parfitt argues that the last traces of the 10 northern tribes, who were exiled into Assyria and forced to assimilate, are Hebrew names recorded in Assyrian army documents from the 7th century. He has concluded that this is where the history of the lost tribes ends, and the myth of the lost tribes begins.

A perfectly reasonable explanation for the cultural overlap, according to naysayers, is that large numbers of jewish people lived and traveled in the lands that are now Afghanistan well before the arrival of Islam. As far back as the 7th century, Chinese travel writer Hsuan Tsang noted a large number of Jewish communities there. Eventually, most converted to Islam.

Whatever the arguments for and against, many Pashtuns—my friend and colleague Mashal among them—remain convinced they are related to the jewish people, or at least deeply curious to learn whether they truly are. Their belief has some interesting ramifications: In the ever-shifting power struggles among ethnic groups in this part of the world, the Israelite card is used both for and against the Pashtuns. Pakistanis in particular disparage the Pashtuns as jewish people, while some Pashtuns use the possibility of Israelite heritage as evidence of having legitimate, ancient roots in the region. For the religious-minded, a connection to Judaism is proof of having been monotheistic even before the arrival of Islam. And unlike other groups that may or may not be descended from lost tribes, the issue isn’t about to get swept up into Israeli migration politics: the Pashtuns have no interest in emigrating to Israel.

At my nan-less Seder this year, I will recall how jewish people, as the descendents of the Israelites, have probably wandered more than any other people. Deuteronomy 10:22 tells us that, before slavery, “Your fathers went down to Egypt seventy people, and now the Lord your God has made you as numerous as the stars of heaven.” Where those stars shine today is anyone’s guess.



Ilene R. Prusher is a staff writer for The Christian Science Monitor, and is the Boston-based newspaper’s Jerusalem bureau chief. She has spent the last decade reporting from countries throughout the Middle East, East Asia and Africa. Her articles have also appeared in publications such as the The Washington Post, The Philadelphia Inquirer, The New Republic and The Jerusalem Report
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04/17/2012 01:43 PM
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Re: The Palestinians are descendants of the ancient Israelites --EUROPEAN jewish people ARE GOG/MAGOG ZIONIST AND JESUS DENIERS
The Palestinians are descendants of the ancient Israelites
17
The jewish people now living in Israel and other places in the world are not at all descendants of the ancient people who inhabited the so called Kingdom of Judea.



A Palestinian and an Israeli arguing over the disputed land.
Speaking at a cabinet meeting held in Tel Hai last february, Israeli PM Netanyahu said “Our existence depends not only on the IDF or our economic resilience – it is anchored in our store of knowledge and the national sentiment that we will bestow upon the coming generations, in our ability to justify our connection to the land.”

Netanyahu was so eloquent in his statement and he managed to touch upon the problematic status quo of the state of Israel when he mentioned Israel’s ability to justify its connection to the occupied land of Palestine. But is it true? Are the Israelis of today the descendants of the ancient Israelites? Does merely being a jewish give anyone the right to claim connection to the land of Palestine and its history? I think it is up to historians not politicians to decide that.

Only by understanding history can we understand why things are the way they are right now. Many of the past events and histories in the world have shaped what we are as of now.

Historians agree- despite the scanty archeological findings- that the ancient Israelites inhabited part of Palestine- or the southern Levant- thousands of years ago. But so did the Phoenicians, the Canaanites, Philistines , the Hittites and the Aramaeans. Nevertheless we do not find some Canaanite people – whom were at least mentioned in the Mesopotamian and Ancient Egyptian texts. – appearing in modern age after thousands of years had elapsed with claims to the right to return to the land of their ancestors.

How did the ancient Israelites live in that part of the ancient Near East?

Their old Bible states that they lived in a monarchy of a political and military power close enough to be the rival of magnificent kingdoms like the Egyptian, the Babylonian and the Hittites. But history and archeology says different.

The Biblical Israelites
In his book “the Bible unearthed” The archeologist Israel Finkelstein states that although the book of Samuel, and initial parts of the book of Kings, portray Saul, David and Solomon ruling in succession over a powerful and cosmopolitan united kingdom of Israel and Judah, Finkelstein regards modern archaeological evidence as showing that this is a pious fiction.


The Israelites lived as herders and farmers who never left their land.
The united kingdom of Israel and Judah depicted in the bible was nothing more than a sparsely populated rural region, nomadic tribes at best until the 7th century BCE. And the whole region was an Egyptian protectorate extending north to where Syria is today.

And by following the Biblical story of the Israelites we will find out that they were driven out of their land in the form of mass exile in 607 BCE by the Babylonians, and from Judea in 70 CE by the Roman Empire. Somehow we are more concerned with the second mass exile or what is better known as the “Diaspora” as it is the Zionists` pretext for claiming the right to return to their homeland.

According to Shlomo Sand in his bestseller book “ The invention of the Jewish people”, the description of the jewish people as a wandering nation in exiles, “who wandered across seas and continents, reached the ends of the earth and finally, with the advent of Zionism, made a U-turn and returned en masse to their orphaned homeland,” is nothing but “national mythology.” For the ancient Israelite never left their homeland nor wandered across different parts of the world in what is known as the “Diaspora”

Inventing the Diaspora
“After being forcibly exiled from their land, the people remained faithful to it throughout their Dispersion and never ceased to pray and hope for their return to it and for the restoration in it of their political freedom” – thus states the preamble to the Israeli Declaration of Independence. This is also the quotation that opens the third chapter of Sand’s book, entitled “The Invention of the Diaspora.” Sand argues that the Jewish people’s exile from its land never happened.

“The supreme paradigm of exile was needed in order to construct a long-range memory in which an imagined and exiled nation-race was posited as the direct continuation of ‘the people of the Bible’ that preceded it,” Sand explains. Under the influence of other historians who have dealt with the same issue in recent years, he argues that the exile of the Jewish people is originally a Christian myth that depicted that event as divine punishment imposed on the jewish people for having rejected the Christian gospel.

Sand added “I started looking in research studies about the exile from the land – a constitutive event in Jewish history, almost like the Holocaust. But to my astonishment I discovered that it has no literature. The reason is that no one exiled the people of the country. The Romans did not exile peoples and they could not have done so even if they had wanted to. They did not have trains and trucks to deport entire populations. That kind of logistics did not exist until the 20th century. From this, in effect, the whole book of shlomo sand was born: in the realization that Judaic society was not dispersed and was not exiled.”

In his historical research, sand attempts to prove that the jewish people now living in Israel and other places in the world are not at all descendants of the ancient people who inhabited the so called Kingdom of Judea. Their origins, according to him, are in varied peoples that converted to Judaism during the course of history, in different corners of the Mediterranean Basin and the adjacent regions. Not only are the North African jewish people for the most part descendants of pagans who converted to Judaism, but so are the jewish people of Yemen (remnants of the Himyar Kingdom in the Arab Peninsula, who converted to Judaism in the fourth century) and the Ashkenazi jewish people of Eastern Europe (refugees from the Kingdom of the Khazars, who converted in the eighth century).

The same conclusion was adopted by Arthur Koestler in his famous book The Thirteenth Tribe (1976). It advances the controversial thesis that the modern Jewish population originating from North / East Europe and Russia including their descendants, or Ashkenazim, are not descended from the historical Israelites of antiquity, but from Khazars, a people originating and populating the Caucasus region (historical Khazaria) who converted to Judaism in the 8th century and later voluntarily migrating or were forced to move westwards into current Eastern Europe (Russia, Hungary, Ukraine, Poland, Belarus, Lithuania, Germany and other places outside the Caucasus region) before and during the 12th and 13th century when the Khazar Empire was collapsing.
dance
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 770867


YOU MY FRIEND....ARE AN IDIOT!!! THE PALESTINIANS ARE THE BASTARD CHILDREN IF ISHMIEL!!!!!...YA, KNOW ..ABRAHAMS HANDMAIDEN THAT HE HAD A CHIL WITH BECAUSE HE DIDNT LISTEN TO GOD WHEN THE ANGEL TOLD HIM THAT SARAH WOULD GIVE BIRTH AT 90....WHICH IS WHY GOD CALLED ISHMIEL "HEATHENISTIC"...AND SAID THAT HIS PPL WOULD BE A HEATHENISTIC PPL AND THATS WHY HE WOULD NOT GIVE THE LAND OF ISRAEL TO HIM...BUT TO ABRAHAMS SECOND BORN!!!!....
YOU PPL, WHO DO NOT KNOW THE WORD OF GOD, BUT DARKEN WITH YOUR WHORDOMS WILL FIND OUT SOON ENOUGH THE WORDS THAT COME OUT OF YOUR MOUTH YOU WILL GIVE AN ACCOUNT FOR ALL YOUR FALSE TEACHINGS , AND THE BLOOD THAT IS ON YOUR HANDS WHEN YOU STAND BEFORE THE KING OF KINGS AND THE LORD OF LORDS JESUS CHRIST!!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13205387


I DONT BELIEVE THAT JESUS WAS BASTARD---- HE WAS BORN MIRACULOUSLY JUST JUST GOD MADE ADAM
Anonymous Coward
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Re: The Palestinians are descendants of the ancient Israelites --EUROPEAN jewish people ARE GOG/MAGOG ZIONIST AND JESUS DENIERS
"The true ancestors of Abraham are the Palestinians, when God returns to Earth, he will be coming to save the backslidden true Israelites the Palestinians, from the white, Greek Gentile oppressors, who have removed the true Israel far from their land, that God gave them thousands of years ago."


Dude, the God of the Palestinians is Allah and he's not mentioned in the Bible. You should quote from the Quran, that's the holy book of the Palestinians and other muslims.
Have you heard of the Wailing Wall in Jeruzalem? It's the remains of the Temple mentioned in the Bible. Who are the ones praying there: jewish people or Palestinians?
Palestinians are praying with their face towards Mecca, jewish people pray facing Jerusalem.
Who celebrated recently Pesach - a feast from the Bible - jewish people or Palestinians?
If you're not convinced yet, go read the history of the Romans during the timeframe 1 AD - 70 AD. You'll see who they conquered and murdered in Israel.
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04/25/2012 01:15 PM
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Re: The Palestinians are descendants of the ancient Israelites --EUROPEAN jewish people ARE GOG/MAGOG ZIONIST AND JESUS DENIERS
Scouting for stories in Afghanistan’s hinterlands, a Jewish American reporter and her Muslim Pashtun interpreter, discover they may have ancestors in common


Is One of the Lost Tribes the Taliban?
It was Seder night in Kabul, and the bread most afflicting me was the pile of nan—Afghan flatbread—that our cook kept placing on the table just before the guests were due to arrive. I repeatedly removed the offending plate and explained to the cook—already baffled by my trying to give him the week off—that there would be no bread served with this meal. He’d nod to show he understood, but a few minutes later, I’d find the same pile of nan back in its usual place.

I had planned for this Seder even before leaving home on the second of what would be many reporting trips to Afghanistan, tucking a box of matzah in my suitcase and wrapping two Haggadot inside my flak jacket. But celebrating the Jewish people’s liberation from slavery in Egypt was proving more complicated than just setting a proper table. My attempt to banish the nan and the cook’s determination to return it was just one of many challenges.

This was 2002, after all, in the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan, which until the U.S invasion only months earlier had been controlled by the fiercely repressive Islamist Taliban. Although driven from Kabul, the Taliban were hardly gone from the country and memories of their rigid rule—and their Ministry of Virtue and Vice—were fresh. A colleague who was co-hosting the Seder and I dared not reveal to our Afghani staff and guests—interpreters, drivers and guards—that they were actually helping us observe a Jewish holiday. Instead, we related the Passover story in metaphorical terms: Just as you here in Afghanistan are celebrating your freedom from the oppression of the Taliban and the terror of civil war, we commemorate the day of our freedom from slavery. This is a feast to show our love of liberty, our thanks to God.

The Afghanis ate it up—and reached for seconds of my charoset.

The only guest in on the secret was my guide and interpreter, Mashal, a member of Afghanistan’s prominent Pashtun people. Gentlemanly son of a judge, author of two books of Pashto poetry and master of four other languages, Mashal had been running an Internet café in Pakistan soon after 9/11 when a colleague of mine coaxed him into journalism.

A few days before the Seder, I found myself in an unexpected conversation with Mashal. He and I were on one of our long car trips through the ragged slate-gray Afghan hinterlands, scouting stories about Al Qaeda’s evasion of U.S. forces and local warlords who were besting America’s plans for the region. Somewhere between Khost and Kabul, Mashal raised a subject I had considered best to avoid in these precincts.

“I, I, I want to find out more about the jewish people,” he said from the front seat, craning his neck to talk to me as we bounced over the rocky road like hot popcorn kernels. I didn’t respond; instead, I continued to stare out the window at the packed-mud buildings dotting the remote landscape, careful as ever to avoid direct eye contact with the men we passed. “Because I believe that they are related to us,” Mashal continued, “and that maybe we, we were once jewish people.”

“What?” I asked, as if I hadn’t quite heard him, buying more time to think. I knew there were peoples, from remote pockets of Africa to the far corners of East Asia, who believe they are descended from the Israelites. I had not, though, heard this mentioned in regard to the Pashtuns, who claim a proud martial history in Central Asia that long predates Islam. Also called Pakhtuns or Pathans, they are the largest ethnic group in Afghanistan, whose populace also includes other Muslim groups like the Hazaras, Tajiks and Uzbeks. More notoriously, Pashtuns make up the ranks of the Taliban.

Was I to believe that the likes of Mullah Omar—the Taliban luminary who ordered public executions and floggings, made burka-wearing law, and gave succor to Osama bin Laden—possessed even a molecule of Jewish ancestry?

“Once jewish people?” I finally replied, turning to him and pulling up my ever-slipping head scarf. “What do you mean?”

“We have all kinds of traditions that no other Muslims have,” he said, “like Saturday was the rest day. And many of the words in our language are not related to any other language in the region. And I, I think maybe that’s because they are from Hebrew!” Mashal punctuated that last word with a pleasing emphasis. His love of poetry had a way of seeping into the sweet rhythms of his speech.

Well, if there’s something you want to know, I might be able to help,” I said, half-shocked to hear myself utter these words to an Afghan. “I’m Jewish.”

“Really?” He was exuberant. “You?” Our driver turned to ask what had caused this sudden burst of enthusiasm, but Mashal dismissed him with a shake of the head and a vague smile. Lowering his tone a notch, he said, “Wow. That’s great. I want to ask you a lot of questions.”

Mashal’s discretion confirmed my instinct that I could trust him. Still, such confidence was not to be given lightly. This was hardly two months after the murder of Daniel Pearl in neighboring Pakistan, an event that shook many intrepid reporters to the core. Suddenly, to not hide one’s religious identity seemed reckless. Like the thousands of landmines still embedded in Afghanistan’s parched landscape, Jewishness could be hazardous to your survival.

Later that day, I gingerly walked over one such landmine-strewn plain of cracked earth, dry and gritty as nan. At regular intervals, we had driven past gaggles of bright fabric flapping flirtatiously in the wind. Tied to thin wooden poles in the ground, they looked from afar like sails attached to the masts of sunken schooners trying to catch the breeze and move on. Mashal said they marked graves, but I couldn’t see how that could be.

I asked our driver to stop so I could take a photograph. He shrugged and obliged, telling me to watch my step. As I neared the poles, my feet crunching the dirt beneath me, I could see that Mashal had been right. The flapping fabrics were head scarves from women who had buried loved ones here, colorful signs of remembrance for those they mourned.

Up close, I found something even more surprising: stones scattered on nearly every grave. A memory from early childhood rushed through my head—one hand in my mother’s, the other reaching down to place a pebble on my grandfather’s tombstone. I returned to the car in wonderment, retracing my footsteps as I’d learned to do in a land as rich in mines as more fortunate countries are in coffee beans.

I asked Mashal what the story was: Why the stones on the graves? This was a peculiar Pashtun way of marking a visit to the deceased, he said.

“But that’s what jewish people do,” I told him quietly. In all my travels, I had never come across another people who preferred pebbles over flowers on a loved one’s grave.

“Really?” Mashal said, surprised, “I thought only we, we Pashtuns did that.”

Less than an hour later, we passed through a typically poor village on the road back toward Kabul. Paint markings on some of the buildings caught my eye. They resembled five-branch menorahs. I asked Mashal what they were.

“Oh, we call it nars,” he replied. “People in the countryside put this up to mark a celebration, such as a birth or wedding.”

“Do all the peoples in Afghanistan do that, or just the Pashtuns?” Iasked.

“This is only for the Pashtuns,” he said.

It seemed uncanny. Menorah…nars. They sounded as if they shared the same root. And unlike the Star of David, which did not originate with the jewish people, the menorah symbol had never belonged to another people.

Mashal and I raised our eyebrows and looked at each other. In the weeks that followed, we were to come across further peculiarities of Pashtun customs that would ring familiar. There is the tradition among many rural women, for instance, of lighting candles on a Friday. They then hide them in a basket—perhaps to conceal their glow from censorious mullahs. There are wedding customs: Some Afghans marry under a cloth that is similar to the chuppa. Another Afghan cloth, the uniquely Pashtun shoulder drape for men that doubles as a ritual prayer mat, is called a tolia; Both its name and function, I told Mashal, reminded me of tallit.

From then on, Mashal and I made a point of paying visits to Afghanistan’s Jewish sites: Gardez, where it’s rumored that a Jewish warrior named Gabur built an ancient fortress; Ghazni Province, where Pashtuns make pilgrmoment/images to the tomb of a “Jewish saint” called Zikria; and Balkh Province, an ancestral area and possible cradle of Pashtun culture that once boasted a large Jewish population that disappeared long before the country’s other Jewish communities in Herat and Kabul dwindled after 1948 and died out in the 1970s. Mashal thought the Pashtuns might have acquired their name from Balkh pronounced pakh-tu by most Afghans.

There are several stories about how the Pashtun people—spread throughout Afghanistan, Pakistan and India—came by their Jewish roots. Many Pashtun, Mashal pointed out, believe themselves to be descended from a legendary figure named Qais Abdu Rashid, who might have been from one of the Israelite tribes. Another theory is that Pashtuns are descended from Pithon, a tribal descendant mentioned in First Chronicles, 8:35.

Curiosity piqued, I spoke to experts and consulted every book I could find on Afghanistan and the lost tribes. It seems Mashal and I were far from the first to wonder. One can find Muslim and Jewish references from the 13th to the 18th centuries attesting to the presence of lost tribes of Israel in the Pashtun territories in Afghanistan and Pakistan. These include the 1612 classic called Makhzan-i-Afghani, which was translated into English in the early 19th century as History of the Afghans.

Hardly a contemporary academic or journalistic work—from Sir Olef Caroe’s The Pathans of 50 years ago to the most recent histories of Afghanistan—fails to mention it. British colonial official Mountstuart Elphinstone, writing in the early 19th century, compared Pashtu to Hebrew in his book, The Kingdom of Caubul. Israel’s second president, Yitzhak Ben-Zvi, believed in the Jewish lineage of the Pashtuns, as did Zahir Shah, the last king of Afghanistan. Once, when asked about his ancestors, Shah claimed that the royal family descended from the Tribe of Benjamin.

. Their parents or grandparents, they would tell me, had always said, that of all Afghan peoples, they could expect Pashtuns to treat them well on account of their shared heritage. In Jerusalem, I met with Rabbi Eliyahu Avichail, founder of Amishav (“My People Returns”), a group tJews I spoke with who had grown up in Afghanistan also immediately identified with Pashtun-Jewish linkshat brings supposed descendants of the lost tribes—such as the B’nei Menashe in India and the Shin-lung in Burma—to Israel. He flipped to the map on the back cover of his book, The Tribes of Israel, and with his finger traced for me the tribes’ putative path from Palestine into Iran, eastward across Afghanistan, and eventually into India and China.

Avichail’s claims brought to mind other intriguing details that Mashal had mentioned like some of the provisions of the complex Pashtun code of ethics, pashtunwali, which have no apparent connection to Islam and are not shared by other peoples of the region. These include exacting standards for hospitality and the requirement that a man marry his brother’s widow—a stipulation also found in the Torah.

Recently, I had a long phone conversation about Pashtun origins with Dr. Navras Jaat Aafreedi, an Indian historian on a research fellowship this year at Tel Aviv University. He’s been studying Muslim groups in India that have traditions of Israelite descent. In one—a Pashtun tribe called the Bani Yisrael—everyone shares the last name of Yisraeli. According to Aafreedi, they believe that they are the descendants of a Jewish sahabi (“friend” in Arabic) of the Prophet Mohammed.

“Why do they claim Israelite origins, if there is nothing to support it?” he asked me. “Why do they take it seriously, and why are there others who take them seriously?”

Tudor Parfitt, a British professor of Jewish studies and author of The Lost Tribes of Israel, subjects the lost tribe theory to an unforgiving academic light apparent in his recent book’s subtitle: The History of a Myth. Parfitt argues that the last traces of the 10 northern tribes, who were exiled into Assyria and forced to assimilate, are Hebrew names recorded in Assyrian army documents from the 7th century. He has concluded that this is where the history of the lost tribes ends, and the myth of the lost tribes begins.

A perfectly reasonable explanation for the cultural overlap, according to naysayers, is that large numbers of jewish people lived and traveled in the lands that are now Afghanistan well before the arrival of Islam. As far back as the 7th century, Chinese travel writer Hsuan Tsang noted a large number of Jewish communities there. Eventually, most converted to Islam.

Whatever the arguments for and against, many Pashtuns—my friend and colleague Mashal among them—remain convinced they are related to the jewish people, or at least deeply curious to learn whether they truly are. Their belief has some interesting ramifications: In the ever-shifting power struggles among ethnic groups in this part of the world, the Israelite card is used both for and against the Pashtuns. Pakistanis in particular disparage the Pashtuns as jewish people, while some Pashtuns use the possibility of Israelite heritage as evidence of having legitimate, ancient roots in the region. For the religious-minded, a connection to Judaism is proof of having been monotheistic even before the arrival of Islam. And unlike other groups that may or may not be descended from lost tribes, the issue isn’t about to get swept up into Israeli migration politics: the Pashtuns have no interest in emigrating to Israel.

At my nan-less Seder this year, I will recall how jewish people, as the descendents of the Israelites, have probably wandered more than any other people. Deuteronomy 10:22 tells us that, before slavery, “Your fathers went down to Egypt seventy people, and now the Lord your God has made you as numerous as the stars of heaven.” Where those stars shine today is anyone’s guess.



Ilene R. Prusher is a staff writer for The Christian Science Monitor, and is the Boston-based newspaper’s Jerusalem bureau chief. She has spent the last decade reporting from countries throughout the Middle East, East Asia and Africa. Her articles have also appeared in publications such as the The Washington Post, The Philadelphia Inquirer, The New Republic and The Jerusalem Report

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 770867


Scouting for stories in Afghanistan’s hinterlands, a Jewish American reporter and her Muslim Pashtun interpreter, discover they may have ancestors in common


Is One of the Lost Tribes the Taliban?
It was Seder night in Kabul, and the bread most afflicting me was the pile of nan—Afghan flatbread—that our cook kept placing on the table just before the guests were due to arrive. I repeatedly removed the offending plate and explained to the cook—already baffled by my trying to give him the week off—that there would be no bread served with this meal. He’d nod to show he understood, but a few minutes later, I’d find the same pile of nan back in its usual place.

I had planned for this Seder even before leaving home on the second of what would be many reporting trips to Afghanistan, tucking a box of matzah in my suitcase and wrapping two Haggadot inside my flak jacket. But celebrating the Jewish people’s liberation from slavery in Egypt was proving more complicated than just setting a proper table. My attempt to banish the nan and the cook’s determination to return it was just one of many challenges.

This was 2002, after all, in the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan, which until the U.S invasion only months earlier had been controlled by the fiercely repressive Islamist Taliban. Although driven from Kabul, the Taliban were hardly gone from the country and memories of their rigid rule—and their Ministry of Virtue and Vice—were fresh. A colleague who was co-hosting the Seder and I dared not reveal to our Afghani staff and guests—interpreters, drivers and guards—that they were actually helping us observe a Jewish holiday. Instead, we related the Passover story in metaphorical terms: Just as you here in Afghanistan are celebrating your freedom from the oppression of the Taliban and the terror of civil war, we commemorate the day of our freedom from slavery. This is a feast to show our love of liberty, our thanks to God.

The Afghanis ate it up—and reached for seconds of my charoset.

The only guest in on the secret was my guide and interpreter, Mashal, a member of Afghanistan’s prominent Pashtun people. Gentlemanly son of a judge, author of two books of Pashto poetry and master of four other languages, Mashal had been running an Internet café in Pakistan soon after 9/11 when a colleague of mine coaxed him into journalism.

A few days before the Seder, I found myself in an unexpected conversation with Mashal. He and I were on one of our long car trips through the ragged slate-gray Afghan hinterlands, scouting stories about Al Qaeda’s evasion of U.S. forces and local warlords who were besting America’s plans for the region. Somewhere between Khost and Kabul, Mashal raised a subject I had considered best to avoid in these precincts.

“I, I, I want to find out more about the jewish people,” he said from the front seat, craning his neck to talk to me as we bounced over the rocky road like hot popcorn kernels. I didn’t respond; instead, I continued to stare out the window at the packed-mud buildings dotting the remote landscape, careful as ever to avoid direct eye contact with the men we passed. “Because I believe that they are related to us,” Mashal continued, “and that maybe we, we were once jewish people.”

“What?” I asked, as if I hadn’t quite heard him, buying more time to think. I knew there were peoples, from remote pockets of Africa to the far corners of East Asia, who believe they are descended from the Israelites. I had not, though, heard this mentioned in regard to the Pashtuns, who claim a proud martial history in Central Asia that long predates Islam. Also called Pakhtuns or Pathans, they are the largest ethnic group in Afghanistan, whose populace also includes other Muslim groups like the Hazaras, Tajiks and Uzbeks. More notoriously, Pashtuns make up the ranks of the Taliban.

Was I to believe that the likes of Mullah Omar—the Taliban luminary who ordered public executions and floggings, made burka-wearing law, and gave succor to Osama bin Laden—possessed even a molecule of Jewish ancestry?

“Once jewish people?” I finally replied, turning to him and pulling up my ever-slipping head scarf. “What do you mean?”

“We have all kinds of traditions that no other Muslims have,” he said, “like Saturday was the rest day. And many of the words in our language are not related to any other language in the region. And I, I think maybe that’s because they are from Hebrew!” Mashal punctuated that last word with a pleasing emphasis. His love of poetry had a way of seeping into the sweet rhythms of his speech.

Well, if there’s something you want to know, I might be able to help,” I said, half-shocked to hear myself utter these words to an Afghan. “I’m Jewish.”

“Really?” He was exuberant. “You?” Our driver turned to ask what had caused this sudden burst of enthusiasm, but Mashal dismissed him with a shake of the head and a vague smile. Lowering his tone a notch, he said, “Wow. That’s great. I want to ask you a lot of questions.”

Mashal’s discretion confirmed my instinct that I could trust him. Still, such confidence was not to be given lightly. This was hardly two months after the murder of Daniel Pearl in neighboring Pakistan, an event that shook many intrepid reporters to the core. Suddenly, to not hide one’s religious identity seemed reckless. Like the thousands of landmines still embedded in Afghanistan’s parched landscape, Jewishness could be hazardous to your survival.

Later that day, I gingerly walked over one such landmine-strewn plain of cracked earth, dry and gritty as nan. At regular intervals, we had driven past gaggles of bright fabric flapping flirtatiously in the wind. Tied to thin wooden poles in the ground, they looked from afar like sails attached to the masts of sunken schooners trying to catch the breeze and move on. Mashal said they marked graves, but I couldn’t see how that could be.

I asked our driver to stop so I could take a photograph. He shrugged and obliged, telling me to watch my step. As I neared the poles, my feet crunching the dirt beneath me, I could see that Mashal had been right. The flapping fabrics were head scarves from women who had buried loved ones here, colorful signs of remembrance for those they mourned.

Up close, I found something even more surprising: stones scattered on nearly every grave. A memory from early childhood rushed through my head—one hand in my mother’s, the other reaching down to place a pebble on my grandfather’s tombstone. I returned to the car in wonderment, retracing my footsteps as I’d learned to do in a land as rich in mines as more fortunate countries are in coffee beans.

I asked Mashal what the story was: Why the stones on the graves? This was a peculiar Pashtun way of marking a visit to the deceased, he said.

“But that’s what jewish people do,” I told him quietly. In all my travels, I had never come across another people who preferred pebbles over flowers on a loved one’s grave.

“Really?” Mashal said, surprised, “I thought only we, we Pashtuns did that.”

Less than an hour later, we passed through a typically poor village on the road back toward Kabul. Paint markings on some of the buildings caught my eye. They resembled five-branch menorahs. I asked Mashal what they were.

“Oh, we call it nars,” he replied. “People in the countryside put this up to mark a celebration, such as a birth or wedding.”

“Do all the peoples in Afghanistan do that, or just the Pashtuns?” Iasked.

“This is only for the Pashtuns,” he said.

It seemed uncanny. Menorah…nars. They sounded as if they shared the same root. And unlike the Star of David, which did not originate with the jewish people, the menorah symbol had never belonged to another people.

Mashal and I raised our eyebrows and looked at each other. In the weeks that followed, we were to come across further peculiarities of Pashtun customs that would ring familiar. There is the tradition among many rural women, for instance, of lighting candles on a Friday. They then hide them in a basket—perhaps to conceal their glow from censorious mullahs. There are wedding customs: Some Afghans marry under a cloth that is similar to the chuppa. Another Afghan cloth, the uniquely Pashtun shoulder drape for men that doubles as a ritual prayer mat, is called a tolia; Both its name and function, I told Mashal, reminded me of tallit.

From then on, Mashal and I made a point of paying visits to Afghanistan’s Jewish sites: Gardez, where it’s rumored that a Jewish warrior named Gabur built an ancient fortress; Ghazni Province, where Pashtuns make pilgrmoment/images to the tomb of a “Jewish saint” called Zikria; and Balkh Province, an ancestral area and possible cradle of Pashtun culture that once boasted a large Jewish population that disappeared long before the country’s other Jewish communities in Herat and Kabul dwindled after 1948 and died out in the 1970s. Mashal thought the Pashtuns might have acquired their name from Balkh pronounced pakh-tu by most Afghans.

There are several stories about how the Pashtun people—spread throughout Afghanistan, Pakistan and India—came by their Jewish roots. Many Pashtun, Mashal pointed out, believe themselves to be descended from a legendary figure named Qais Abdu Rashid, who might have been from one of the Israelite tribes. Another theory is that Pashtuns are descended from Pithon, a tribal descendant mentioned in First Chronicles, 8:35.

Curiosity piqued, I spoke to experts and consulted every book I could find on Afghanistan and the lost tribes. It seems Mashal and I were far from the first to wonder. One can find Muslim and Jewish references from the 13th to the 18th centuries attesting to the presence of lost tribes of Israel in the Pashtun territories in Afghanistan and Pakistan. These include the 1612 classic called Makhzan-i-Afghani, which was translated into English in the early 19th century as History of the Afghans.

Hardly a contemporary academic or journalistic work—from Sir Olef Caroe’s The Pathans of 50 years ago to the most recent histories of Afghanistan—fails to mention it. British colonial official Mountstuart Elphinstone, writing in the early 19th century, compared Pashtu to Hebrew in his book, The Kingdom of Caubul. Israel’s second president, Yitzhak Ben-Zvi, believed in the Jewish lineage of the Pashtuns, as did Zahir Shah, the last king of Afghanistan. Once, when asked about his ancestors, Shah claimed that the royal family descended from the Tribe of Benjamin.

. Their parents or grandparents, they would tell me, had always said, that of all Afghan peoples, they could expect Pashtuns to treat them well on account of their shared heritage. In Jerusalem, I met with Rabbi Eliyahu Avichail, founder of Amishav (“My People Returns”), a group tJews I spoke with who had grown up in Afghanistan also immediately identified with Pashtun-Jewish linkshat brings supposed descendants of the lost tribes—such as the B’nei Menashe in India and the Shin-lung in Burma—to Israel. He flipped to the map on the back cover of his book, The Tribes of Israel, and with his finger traced for me the tribes’ putative path from Palestine into Iran, eastward across Afghanistan, and eventually into India and China.

Avichail’s claims brought to mind other intriguing details that Mashal had mentioned like some of the provisions of the complex Pashtun code of ethics, pashtunwali, which have no apparent connection to Islam and are not shared by other peoples of the region. These include exacting standards for hospitality and the requirement that a man marry his brother’s widow—a stipulation also found in the Torah.

Recently, I had a long phone conversation about Pashtun origins with Dr. Navras Jaat Aafreedi, an Indian historian on a research fellowship this year at Tel Aviv University. He’s been studying Muslim groups in India that have traditions of Israelite descent. In one—a Pashtun tribe called the Bani Yisrael—everyone shares the last name of Yisraeli. According to Aafreedi, they believe that they are the descendants of a Jewish sahabi (“friend” in Arabic) of the Prophet Mohammed.

“Why do they claim Israelite origins, if there is nothing to support it?” he asked me. “Why do they take it seriously, and why are there others who take them seriously?”

Tudor Parfitt, a British professor of Jewish studies and author of The Lost Tribes of Israel, subjects the lost tribe theory to an unforgiving academic light apparent in his recent book’s subtitle: The History of a Myth. Parfitt argues that the last traces of the 10 northern tribes, who were exiled into Assyria and forced to assimilate, are Hebrew names recorded in Assyrian army documents from the 7th century. He has concluded that this is where the history of the lost tribes ends, and the myth of the lost tribes begins.

A perfectly reasonable explanation for the cultural overlap, according to naysayers, is that large numbers of jewish people lived and traveled in the lands that are now Afghanistan well before the arrival of Islam. As far back as the 7th century, Chinese travel writer Hsuan Tsang noted a large number of Jewish communities there. Eventually, most converted to Islam.

Whatever the arguments for and against, many Pashtuns—my friend and colleague Mashal among them—remain convinced they are related to the jewish people, or at least deeply curious to learn whether they truly are. Their belief has some interesting ramifications: In the ever-shifting power struggles among ethnic groups in this part of the world, the Israelite card is used both for and against the Pashtuns. Pakistanis in particular disparage the Pashtuns as jewish people, while some Pashtuns use the possibility of Israelite heritage as evidence of having legitimate, ancient roots in the region. For the religious-minded, a connection to Judaism is proof of having been monotheistic even before the arrival of Islam. And unlike other groups that may or may not be descended from lost tribes, the issue isn’t about to get swept up into Israeli migration politics: the Pashtuns have no interest in emigrating to Israel.

At my nan-less Seder this year, I will recall how jewish people, as the descendents of the Israelites, have probably wandered more than any other people. Deuteronomy 10:22 tells us that, before slavery, “Your fathers went down to Egypt seventy people, and now the Lord your God has made you as numerous as the stars of heaven.” Where those stars shine today is anyone’s guess.



Ilene R. Prusher is a staff writer for The Christian Science Monitor, and is the Boston-based newspaper’s Jerusalem bureau chief. She has spent the last decade reporting from countries throughout the Middle East, East Asia and Africa. Her articles have also appeared in publications such as the The Washington Post, The Philadelphia Inquirer, The New Republic and The Jerusalem Report

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 770867
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Re: The Palestinians are descendants of the ancient Israelites --EUROPEAN jewish people ARE GOG/MAGOG ZIONIST AND JESUS DENIERS
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Re: The Palestinians are descendants of the ancient Israelites --EUROPEAN jewish people ARE GOG/MAGOG ZIONIST AND JESUS DENIERS
"The true ancestors of Abraham are the Palestinians, when God returns to Earth, he will be coming to save the backslidden true Israelites the Palestinians, from the white, Greek Gentile oppressors, who have removed the true Israel far from their land, that God gave them thousands of years ago."


Dude, the God of the Palestinians is Allah and he's not mentioned in the Bible. You should quote from the Quran, that's the holy book of the Palestinians and other muslims.
Have you heard of the Wailing Wall in Jeruzalem? It's the remains of the Temple mentioned in the Bible. Who are the ones praying there: jewish people or Palestinians?
Palestinians are praying with their face towards Mecca, jewish people pray facing Jerusalem.
Who celebrated recently Pesach - a feast from the Bible - jewish people or Palestinians?
If you're not convinced yet, go read the history of the Romans during the timeframe 1 AD - 70 AD. You'll see who they conquered and murdered in Israel.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1229586


If the Romans conquered and murdered all the "jewishes" then where did all the replacement "jewishes" come from?
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Re: The Palestinians are descendants of the ancient Israelites --EUROPEAN jewish people ARE GOG/MAGOG ZIONIST AND JESUS DENIERS
Preoccupied with their own terrorist war at home, Israelis have paid less attention than the rest of the world to the campaign against Afghanistan's ruling Taliban.

Just as well, says an Israeli anthropologist -- because the Taliban might have had Jewish origins.

According to Shalva Weil, there is considerable body of evidence suggesting that the Pathan ethnic group, from which most of the Taliban are drawn, is one of the fabled "10 lost tribes" of ancient Israel. Indeed, as recently as half a century ago, Pathan tribesmen themselves claimed that they were descended from wandering jewish people.

Writing in the weekly magazine "Jerusalem Report," Weil cites a report delivered to Israeli President Yitzhak Ben-Zvi in the 1950s, based on the encounter of a Jewish traveler with Pathan nomads.

The Pathans, who are also called Pashtuns, were said to wear cloaks decorated with a symbol that closely resembled the lamps lit by jewish people at Hanukkah. The traveler also reported that they donned prayer shawls similar to those of their Jewish counterparts in the West, insisted that men grow side curls, and lit votive candles on Friday evenings, the beginning of the Jewish Sabbath.

Some anthropologists have also found Pathan families that circumcise sons on the eighth day after their birth, in keeping with Jewish custom.

A legend of the Pathans, as recounted to Weil when she did field research among them in the 1980s along the Pakistani border, tells of a "Jeremiah," a son of King Saul -- but not the more familiar Jeremiah of the Old Testament -- who sired a daughter named "Afghana." Her descendants, the legend maintains, made their way to the Central Asian land that now bears her name.

A Jewish connection of more recent and well-documented origin leads just across Afghanistan's western frontier to the Iranian city of Mashhad. It is the traditional home of the "Mashhadi jewish people," who were forcibly converted to Shiite Islam after a pogrom in 1839.

Like some of their distant Sephardic cousins in Islamic Spain, the Mashhadi jewish people behaved in public as faithful Muslims -- even making the pilgrimage to Mecca when they could afford it -- but clung secretly to Judaism at home.

Hundreds of them emigrated to the Shiite region around Herat in western Afghanistan over the years, which is today a major stronghold of the anti- Taliban resistance.

The U.S. war against terrorism, in short, may be unfolding amid a second war between two lost tribes of Israel.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 770867
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Re: The Palestinians are descendants of the ancient Israelites --EUROPEAN jewish people ARE GOG/MAGOG ZIONIST AND JESUS DENIERS
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Re: The Palestinians are descendants of the ancient Israelites --EUROPEAN jewish people ARE GOG/MAGOG ZIONIST AND JESUS DENIERS
The Palestinians are descendants of the ancient Israelites
17
The jewish people now living in Israel and other places in the world are not at all descendants of the ancient people who inhabited the so called Kingdom of Judea.



A Palestinian and an Israeli arguing over the disputed land.
Speaking at a cabinet meeting held in Tel Hai last february, Israeli PM Netanyahu said “Our existence depends not only on the IDF or our economic resilience – it is anchored in our store of knowledge and the national sentiment that we will bestow upon the coming generations, in our ability to justify our connection to the land.”

Netanyahu was so eloquent in his statement and he managed to touch upon the problematic status quo of the state of Israel when he mentioned Israel’s ability to justify its connection to the occupied land of Palestine. But is it true? Are the Israelis of today the descendants of the ancient Israelites? Does merely being a jewish give anyone the right to claim connection to the land of Palestine and its history? I think it is up to historians not politicians to decide that.

Only by understanding history can we understand why things are the way they are right now. Many of the past events and histories in the world have shaped what we are as of now.

Historians agree- despite the scanty archeological findings- that the ancient Israelites inhabited part of Palestine- or the southern Levant- thousands of years ago. But so did the Phoenicians, the Canaanites, Philistines , the Hittites and the Aramaeans. Nevertheless we do not find some Canaanite people – whom were at least mentioned in the Mesopotamian and Ancient Egyptian texts. – appearing in modern age after thousands of years had elapsed with claims to the right to return to the land of their ancestors.

How did the ancient Israelites live in that part of the ancient Near East?

Their old Bible states that they lived in a monarchy of a political and military power close enough to be the rival of magnificent kingdoms like the Egyptian, the Babylonian and the Hittites. But history and archeology says different.

The Biblical Israelites
In his book “the Bible unearthed” The archeologist Israel Finkelstein states that although the book of Samuel, and initial parts of the book of Kings, portray Saul, David and Solomon ruling in succession over a powerful and cosmopolitan united kingdom of Israel and Judah, Finkelstein regards modern archaeological evidence as showing that this is a pious fiction.


The Israelites lived as herders and farmers who never left their land.
The united kingdom of Israel and Judah depicted in the bible was nothing more than a sparsely populated rural region, nomadic tribes at best until the 7th century BCE. And the whole region was an Egyptian protectorate extending north to where Syria is today.

And by following the Biblical story of the Israelites we will find out that they were driven out of their land in the form of mass exile in 607 BCE by the Babylonians, and from Judea in 70 CE by the Roman Empire. Somehow we are more concerned with the second mass exile or what is better known as the “Diaspora” as it is the Zionists` pretext for claiming the right to return to their homeland.

According to Shlomo Sand in his bestseller book “ The invention of the Jewish people”, the description of the jewish people as a wandering nation in exiles, “who wandered across seas and continents, reached the ends of the earth and finally, with the advent of Zionism, made a U-turn and returned en masse to their orphaned homeland,” is nothing but “national mythology.” For the ancient Israelite never left their homeland nor wandered across different parts of the world in what is known as the “Diaspora”

Inventing the Diaspora
“After being forcibly exiled from their land, the people remained faithful to it throughout their Dispersion and never ceased to pray and hope for their return to it and for the restoration in it of their political freedom” – thus states the preamble to the Israeli Declaration of Independence. This is also the quotation that opens the third chapter of Sand’s book, entitled “The Invention of the Diaspora.” Sand argues that the Jewish people’s exile from its land never happened.

“The supreme paradigm of exile was needed in order to construct a long-range memory in which an imagined and exiled nation-race was posited as the direct continuation of ‘the people of the Bible’ that preceded it,” Sand explains. Under the influence of other historians who have dealt with the same issue in recent years, he argues that the exile of the Jewish people is originally a Christian myth that depicted that event as divine punishment imposed on the jewish people for having rejected the Christian gospel.

Sand added “I started looking in research studies about the exile from the land – a constitutive event in Jewish history, almost like the Holocaust. But to my astonishment I discovered that it has no literature. The reason is that no one exiled the people of the country. The Romans did not exile peoples and they could not have done so even if they had wanted to. They did not have trains and trucks to deport entire populations. That kind of logistics did not exist until the 20th century. From this, in effect, the whole book of shlomo sand was born: in the realization that Judaic society was not dispersed and was not exiled.”

In his historical research, sand attempts to prove that the jewish people now living in Israel and other places in the world are not at all descendants of the ancient people who inhabited the so called Kingdom of Judea. Their origins, according to him, are in varied peoples that converted to Judaism during the course of history, in different corners of the Mediterranean Basin and the adjacent regions. Not only are the North African jewish people for the most part descendants of pagans who converted to Judaism, but so are the jewish people of Yemen (remnants of the Himyar Kingdom in the Arab Peninsula, who converted to Judaism in the fourth century) and the Ashkenazi jewish people of Eastern Europe (refugees from the Kingdom of the Khazars, who converted in the eighth century).

The same conclusion was adopted by Arthur Koestler in his famous book The Thirteenth Tribe (1976). It advances the controversial thesis that the modern Jewish population originating from North / East Europe and Russia including their descendants, or Ashkenazim, are not descended from the historical Israelites of antiquity, but from Khazars, a people originating and populating the Caucasus region (historical Khazaria) who converted to Judaism in the 8th century and later voluntarily migrating or were forced to move westwards into current Eastern Europe (Russia, Hungary, Ukraine, Poland, Belarus, Lithuania, Germany and other places outside the Caucasus region) before and during the 12th and 13th century when the Khazar Empire was collapsing.
dance
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11/26/2012 06:58 AM
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Re: The Palestinians are descendants of the ancient Israelites --EUROPEAN jewish people ARE GOG/MAGOG ZIONIST AND JESUS DENIERS
in the end it doesnt even matter who israel is.
Israel and its old history were meant to be a mirror,
just like moses was a mirror for israel, israel was a mirror of the world. Just as Elijah was a mirror of the full length of the son, so was john the mirror of it and became jesus the full of son and after it father of it, still mirroring yes, the world and its salvation process. The only son is THe son that becomes the All, meaning, there is no God but God, there where he attained salvation and became One. This is the double game of the holy books, they do not only function as guide but also as trap, and confuse when the law is not read well in it. Love God in its totality, on the basis of intent, which is faith, will you one day forgive the whole of god even when you still hate parts now, which is normal.

--The moment children get born in a country that country belongs to them, so the question about israel or palestine is sometimes a wasted discussion. All the children born on the land have the right to live their, and anything else is inhumane behaviour.--

BEcause Israel is a mirror we can not see that easy what is the real truth behind everything, the only thing we know is there are humans over there, whatever excuses were made to divide those humans into good ones and bad ones.

God never intended to use Israel to only bless Israel,
but through the mirror to bless the whole world, including them that come to him through other means then the evangelical gospels, which are mostly misunderstood to mean that god is revengefull, which he is not.

Last Edited by onelastcloud on 11/26/2012 07:00 AM
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Re: The Palestinians are descendants of the ancient Israelites --EUROPEAN jewish people ARE GOG/MAGOG ZIONIST AND JESUS DENIERS
The Palestinians are descendants of the ancient Israelites
17
The jewish people now living in Israel and other places in the world are not at all descendants of the ancient people who inhabited the so called Kingdom of Judea.



A Palestinian and an Israeli arguing over the disputed land.
Speaking at a cabinet meeting held in Tel Hai last february, Israeli PM Netanyahu said “Our existence depends not only on the IDF or our economic resilience – it is anchored in our store of knowledge and the national sentiment that we will bestow upon the coming generations, in our ability to justify our connection to the land.”

Netanyahu was so eloquent in his statement and he managed to touch upon the problematic status quo of the state of Israel when he mentioned Israel’s ability to justify its connection to the occupied land of Palestine. But is it true? Are the Israelis of today the descendants of the ancient Israelites? Does merely being a jewish give anyone the right to claim connection to the land of Palestine and its history? I think it is up to historians not politicians to decide that.

Only by understanding history can we understand why things are the way they are right now. Many of the past events and histories in the world have shaped what we are as of now.

Historians agree- despite the scanty archeological findings- that the ancient Israelites inhabited part of Palestine- or the southern Levant- thousands of years ago. But so did the Phoenicians, the Canaanites, Philistines , the Hittites and the Aramaeans. Nevertheless we do not find some Canaanite people – whom were at least mentioned in the Mesopotamian and Ancient Egyptian texts. – appearing in modern age after thousands of years had elapsed with claims to the right to return to the land of their ancestors.

How did the ancient Israelites live in that part of the ancient Near East?

Their old Bible states that they lived in a monarchy of a political and military power close enough to be the rival of magnificent kingdoms like the Egyptian, the Babylonian and the Hittites. But history and archeology says different.

The Biblical Israelites
In his book “the Bible unearthed” The archeologist Israel Finkelstein states that although the book of Samuel, and initial parts of the book of Kings, portray Saul, David and Solomon ruling in succession over a powerful and cosmopolitan united kingdom of Israel and Judah, Finkelstein regards modern archaeological evidence as showing that this is a pious fiction.


The Israelites lived as herders and farmers who never left their land.
The united kingdom of Israel and Judah depicted in the bible was nothing more than a sparsely populated rural region, nomadic tribes at best until the 7th century BCE. And the whole region was an Egyptian protectorate extending north to where Syria is today.

And by following the Biblical story of the Israelites we will find out that they were driven out of their land in the form of mass exile in 607 BCE by the Babylonians, and from Judea in 70 CE by the Roman Empire. Somehow we are more concerned with the second mass exile or what is better known as the “Diaspora” as it is the Zionists` pretext for claiming the right to return to their homeland.

According to Shlomo Sand in his bestseller book “ The invention of the Jewish people”, the description of the jewish people as a wandering nation in exiles, “who wandered across seas and continents, reached the ends of the earth and finally, with the advent of Zionism, made a U-turn and returned en masse to their orphaned homeland,” is nothing but “national mythology.” For the ancient Israelite never left their homeland nor wandered across different parts of the world in what is known as the “Diaspora”

Inventing the Diaspora
“After being forcibly exiled from their land, the people remained faithful to it throughout their Dispersion and never ceased to pray and hope for their return to it and for the restoration in it of their political freedom” – thus states the preamble to the Israeli Declaration of Independence. This is also the quotation that opens the third chapter of Sand’s book, entitled “The Invention of the Diaspora.” Sand argues that the Jewish people’s exile from its land never happened.

“The supreme paradigm of exile was needed in order to construct a long-range memory in which an imagined and exiled nation-race was posited as the direct continuation of ‘the people of the Bible’ that preceded it,” Sand explains. Under the influence of other historians who have dealt with the same issue in recent years, he argues that the exile of the Jewish people is originally a Christian myth that depicted that event as divine punishment imposed on the jewish people for having rejected the Christian gospel.

Sand added “I started looking in research studies about the exile from the land – a constitutive event in Jewish history, almost like the Holocaust. But to my astonishment I discovered that it has no literature. The reason is that no one exiled the people of the country. The Romans did not exile peoples and they could not have done so even if they had wanted to. They did not have trains and trucks to deport entire populations. That kind of logistics did not exist until the 20th century. From this, in effect, the whole book of shlomo sand was born: in the realization that Judaic society was not dispersed and was not exiled.”

In his historical research, sand attempts to prove that the jewish people now living in Israel and other places in the world are not at all descendants of the ancient people who inhabited the so called Kingdom of Judea. Their origins, according to him, are in varied peoples that converted to Judaism during the course of history, in different corners of the Mediterranean Basin and the adjacent regions. Not only are the North African jewish people for the most part descendants of pagans who converted to Judaism, but so are the jewish people of Yemen (remnants of the Himyar Kingdom in the Arab Peninsula, who converted to Judaism in the fourth century) and the Ashkenazi jewish people of Eastern Europe (refugees from the Kingdom of the Khazars, who converted in the eighth century).

The same conclusion was adopted by Arthur Koestler in his famous book The Thirteenth Tribe (1976). It advances the controversial thesis that the modern Jewish population originating from North / East Europe and Russia including their descendants, or Ashkenazim, are not descended from the historical Israelites of antiquity, but from Khazars, a people originating and populating the Caucasus region (historical Khazaria) who converted to Judaism in the 8th century and later voluntarily migrating or were forced to move westwards into current Eastern Europe (Russia, Hungary, Ukraine, Poland, Belarus, Lithuania, Germany and other places outside the Caucasus region) before and during the 12th and 13th century when the Khazar Empire was collapsing.
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 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 770867

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