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Something really strange about Fukushima compared to Chernobyl

 
Vlad Tepes
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04/27/2012 05:49 AM
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Something really strange about Fukushima compared to Chernobyl
In Chernobyl they dropped 5,000 tons of sand, lead and boric acid then they HURRIED to cover the molten reactor in order to prevent RAIN from entering:

At the time there was still fear that the reactor could re-enter a self-sustaining nuclear chain-reaction and explode again, and a new containment structure was planned to prevent rain entering and triggering such an explosion, and to prevent further release of radioactive material.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

You can hear the same said here, starting at minute 6:10:

[link to youtu.be]

So... they didn't pour hundreds of thousands of tons of water on the molten reactor, they actually tried to prevent water from getting to it!

In Fukushima not only did they leave most of the reactor buildings exposed to the elements (including rain) for a year or more, but we are told they were/are actually pumping water in the reactors that suffered meltdowns.

So why was water considered a risk, a facilitator of a chain reaction, in Chernobyl, while in Fukushima it is used in massive amounts?

UPDATE FOR MORE INFO:

The fuel rods in reactor 1 have melted but we are told TEPCO is continuing to pour water into reactor 1:

A massive amount of highly radioactive water is accumulating inside the plant's reactor buildings and adjacent reactor turbine buildings as a result of the continuing injection of water to cool the Nos. 1 to 3 reactors, which have suffered meltdowns due to last year's nuclear accident.

[link to mainichi.jp]

Thus TEPCO is pouring water over a blob of melted nuclear fuel. Is that the correct thing to do?

In Chernobyl they even drained a water reservoir from under the reactor in order not to allow the melted fuel blob to get into contact with water (!!!):

Velikhov said the damaged reactor, pressed down from above by thousands of tons of sand, lead and other fire-extinguishing materials, was in danger of plunging into an underwater reservoir, which would have released radioactive steam into the atmosphere.

[link to articles.latimes.com]
 Quoting: Vlad Tepes


Last Edited by Vlad Tepes on 04/27/2012 12:23 PM
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Cellz

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04/27/2012 05:52 AM
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Re: Something really strange about Fukushima compared to Chernobyl
yeah.. you can look at it in one of two ways...

not pouring water on chernobyl back then.. probably either A: made it worse.. or B: helped tons..

so maybe the dumbasses thought if they tried something different it would help.. i mean its simple.. they prob were like "hey! instead of drying this baby out like they did in chernobyl... how about we try and drown this sucker!" u know?
Fatal Error In Reality.sys

Reboot Universe Y/N?
Vlad Tepes (OP)

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04/27/2012 06:03 AM
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Re: Something really strange about Fukushima compared to Chernobyl
yeah.. you can look at it in one of two ways...

not pouring water on chernobyl back then.. probably either A: made it worse.. or B: helped tons..
 Quoting: Cellz


They say it helped tons because 50% of the molten nuclear fuel mixed with the sand and turned into "lava" that eventually cooled several levels below the reactor vessel, becoming trapped in this shape and lowering the chances of a chain reaction (starting at minute 4:40):

[link to youtu.be]
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Anonymous Coward
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04/27/2012 06:03 AM
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Re: Something really strange about Fukushima compared to Chernobyl
Thanks for enlightening us...This is becoming far worse then Chernybol in my judgement....this event is a NUCLEAR HOLOCUST...not being talked about by gov, or media...they give us the same song and dance ...
Vlad Tepes (OP)

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04/27/2012 06:11 AM
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Re: Something really strange about Fukushima compared to Chernobyl
so maybe the dumbasses thought if they tried something different it would help.. i mean its simple.. they prob were like "hey! instead of drying this baby out like they did in chernobyl... how about we try and drown this sucker!" u know?
 Quoting: Cellz


Yeah. They may also have problems getting the sand, boric acid and other stuff where it needs to be. And then they also probably thought... "hey, we have a big body of water to our east, in easy reach, why not use it".

The question I have, and I hope someone that knows this stuff could help us, is why was water considered a facilitator of a chain reaction in Chernobyl, while in Fukushima it is used in massive amounts???
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Anonymous Coward
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04/27/2012 06:15 AM
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Re: Something really strange about Fukushima compared to Chernobyl
Doesn't water contain the hydrogen atom? screamnuke
Monbazillac

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04/27/2012 06:20 AM
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Re: Something really strange about Fukushima compared to Chernobyl
fukushima used MOX, chernobyl was not using this material.

it's related to this maybe someone can explain it better because in english it's a bit difficult for me 1dunno1

the only thing i'm sure is MOX is far more toxic than what chernobyl was using (toxic dust full of particles).


[link to therealnews.com]

[link to howthehellshouldiknow-wallyworld.blogspot.fr]
Vlad Tepes (OP)

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04/27/2012 06:32 AM
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Re: Something really strange about Fukushima compared to Chernobyl
fukushima used MOX, chernobyl was not using this material.
 Quoting: Monbazillac


Yes, but does that make a big change in how to handle molten reactor fuel?

The Japanese used lots of water and left the buildings exposed to the elements. In Chernobyl they considered water a hazard and hurried to prevent rain from getting into the reactor.

The discrepancy seems too big. How can it be explained?
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Atom-Boy

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04/27/2012 06:35 AM
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Re: Something really strange about Fukushima compared to Chernobyl
MOX is used only in the Core of Nr. 3
but not in Nr.1, 2., 4.!

You should wait for a Explanation from the Guys
who believe in a Hydro-Cesium Volcanic Reaction/ Explosion,
they may are able to explain this banana2
(i do not believe in this)

One of the biggest Differences is that the Fuel in Chernobyl
was under the open Sky, F'Shima is not, it's still
inside of the Containment!

Last Edited by The real and almighty Atom-Boy on 04/27/2012 06:36 AM
G.Y.!B.E.
ladyannie2009

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04/27/2012 06:39 AM

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Re: Something really strange about Fukushima compared to Chernobyl
I'm not a scientist, and I certainly do not have any training in 'how to dispose of radioactive waste safely' but the more I read about this, the more dismal the situation becomes.

I had read an interesting article recently....(link below) that talks about some of the scientific studies that have been done. Lots of good information at that link if you've got time to read it all. But the article stated that only 20% of the radiation has stayed in Japan, while 78% has gone into the pacific ocean. The other 2% went airbourne and eventually landed on the west coast of the US and Canada. These levels are spreading out to the entire world, and the levels will continue to increase and yet no one seems to know what the hell to do about it....(???)

The article goes on to tell of Japan's decision at the end of last year to start burning all of this radioactive debris, then mixing non-radioactive debris to dilute it...(huh???) then spread it around like some type of compost or something. AND....this is their solution for the next several years....burn, mix, spread, burn, mix, spread....repeat for 3 years.

Am I missing something here?? Does this sound reasonable to ANYONE? What would be some logical solutions at this point? Anyone know? Cuz everything I've been reading doesn't give much hope. The time to react with limited damage to the environment has long since passed, and now I'm not sure anything really CAN be done

I just LOVE morning doom, don't you? rant

[link to www.earthfiles.com]
"the truth will stand up, when nothing else will"
- annie's mom

"When a great ship is in harbor and moored, it is safe, there can be no doubt. But that is not what great ships are built for."
- Dr. Clarissa Pinkola Estes
acewhole777

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04/27/2012 06:41 AM
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Re: Something really strange about Fukushima compared to Chernobyl
fukushima used MOX, chernobyl was not using this material.

it's related to this maybe someone can explain it better because in english it's a bit difficult for me 1dunno1

the only thing i'm sure is MOX is far more toxic than what chernobyl was using (toxic dust full of particles).


[link to therealnews.com]

[link to howthehellshouldiknow-wallyworld.blogspot.fr]
 Quoting: Monbazillac


Yup Japan imports MOX fuel from france
Atom-Boy

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04/27/2012 06:45 AM
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Re: Something really strange about Fukushima compared to Chernobyl
@ladyannie,
this is a different Topic and you should open a Thread for it,
but let me say that there is no other way,
in the last year we had 38 Fires because of Self Combustion inside of this really huge Mountains,
imo. it is much more safe to burn this Stuff in a controlled
Manner than let it burn for years in our normal Environmemt,
without any kind of Filtering!
G.Y.!B.E.
Monbazillac

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04/27/2012 06:57 AM
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Re: Something really strange about Fukushima compared to Chernobyl
fukushima used MOX, chernobyl was not using this material.
 Quoting: Monbazillac


Yes, but does that make a big change in how to handle molten reactor fuel?

The Japanese used lots of water and left the buildings exposed to the elements. In Chernobyl they considered water a hazard and hurried to prevent rain from getting into the reactor.

The discrepancy seems too big. How can it be explained?
 Quoting: Vlad Tepes


yes MOX is the big problem and the difference.

they are avoiding it, only talking about radiations and stuff like this in purpose for a reason.


MOX is the biggest business for them, it's almost everywhere now and no this is not a coincidence at all!

[link to www.tni.org]

[link to www.pacificfreepress.com]

[link to www.naturalnews.com]


stay focused on this "detail": MOX and do your search in english, i can give you some links in french if you want.
Monbazillac

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04/27/2012 07:01 AM
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Re: Something really strange about Fukushima compared to Chernobyl
fukushima used MOX, chernobyl was not using this material.

it's related to this maybe someone can explain it better because in english it's a bit difficult for me 1dunno1

the only thing i'm sure is MOX is far more toxic than what chernobyl was using (toxic dust full of particles).


[link to therealnews.com]

[link to howthehellshouldiknow-wallyworld.blogspot.fr]
 Quoting: Monbazillac


Yup Japan imports MOX fuel from france
 Quoting: acewhole777


yep AREVA nasty business!

[link to www.agoravox.fr]

[link to www.areva.com]

[link to www.paperblog.fr]

[link to www.plumedepresse.net]

[link to nucleaire-nonmerci.net]

[link to owni.fr]


since you are canadian maybe you can help thx hf
Anonymous Coward
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04/27/2012 07:04 AM
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Re: Something really strange about Fukushima compared to Chernobyl
Maybe Chernobyl didn't have giant pools of used rods stacked on top in pools that needed to be cooled down?
Just a thought...I never really studied Chernobyl, maybe it's time to.
Anonymous Coward
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04/27/2012 07:20 AM
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Re: Something really strange about Fukushima compared to Chernobyl
Berrys dont grow near railroad ?

Berrnyotrack ¿
Anonymous Coward
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04/27/2012 07:21 AM
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Re: Something really strange about Fukushima compared to Chernobyl
In Chernobyl they dropped 5,000 tons of sand, lead and boric acid then they HURRIED to cover the molten reactor in order to prevent RAIN from entering:

At the time there was still fear that the reactor could re-enter a self-sustaining nuclear chain-reaction and explode again, and a new containment structure was planned to prevent rain entering and triggering such an explosion, and to prevent further release of radioactive material.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

You can hear the same said here, starting at minute 6:10:

[link to youtu.be]

So... they didn't pour hundreds of thousands of tons of water on the molten reactor, they actually tried to prevent water from getting to it!

In Fukushima not only did they leave most of the reactor buildings exposed to the elements (including rain) for a year or more, but we are told they were/are actually pumping water in the reactors that suffered meltdowns.

So why was water considered a risk, a facilitator of a chain reaction, in Chernobyl, while in Fukushima it is used in massive amounts?
 Quoting: Vlad Tepes


It was a different type of reactor.

Graphite moderated with most of the graphite in place.

So the fuel had a tendency to be more active (close to fission) without even adding water.

Fukushima reactors are water moderated.
Vlad Tepes (OP)

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04/27/2012 07:21 AM
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Re: Something really strange about Fukushima compared to Chernobyl
One of the biggest Differences is that the Fuel in Chernobyl
was under the open Sky, F'Shima is not, it's still
inside of the Containment!
 Quoting: Atom-Boy


In Fukushima they used sea water to try to cool the reactors by spraying it from fire trucks!

See pic:

[link to www.csmonitor.com]

If that water was supposed to get where it was needed then the top of those containment vessels was considered breached.
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Anonymous Coward
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04/27/2012 07:23 AM
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Re: Something really strange about Fukushima compared to Chernobyl
all this fukushima doom makes me laff. all you gotta do is buy a geiger counter and you will see that there is no more radiation now than there ever was. it dispersed around the planet, the planet is really really big by the way, and it is now not harmful to you as long as youre not in close vicinity to the plant itself. case closed.
Anonymous Coward
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04/27/2012 07:28 AM
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Re: Something really strange about Fukushima compared to Chernobyl
all this fukushima doom makes me laff. all you gotta do is buy a geiger counter and you will see that there is no more radiation now than there ever was. it dispersed around the planet, the planet is really really big by the way, and it is now not harmful to you as long as youre not in close vicinity to the plant itself. case closed.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14929099


Good to see less competition for rental property in safer regions :)
Anonymous Coward
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04/27/2012 08:24 AM
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Re: Something really strange about Fukushima compared to Chernobyl
[link to www.washingtonsblog.com]

If these facts are correct :

"...the amount of nuclear material in the spent fuel pools at Fukushima is greater than all of the nuclear fuel at Chernoybl:
Science Insider noted yesterday:
The Daiichi complex in Fukushima, Japan … had a total of 1760 metric tons of fresh and used nuclear fuel on site last year, according to a presentation by its owners, the Tokyo Electric Power Company (Tepco).
The most damaged Daiichi reactor, number 3, contains about 90 tons of fuel, and the storage pool above reactor 4, which the Nuclear Regulatory Commission’s (NRC’s) Gregory Jaczko reported yesterday had lost its cooling water, contains 135 tons of spent fuel.
The amount of fuel lost in the core melt at Three Mile Island in 1979 was about 30 tons...
Chernobyl reactors had about 180 tons when the accident occurred in 1986.
That means that Fukushima has nearly 10 times more nuclear fuel than Chernobyl.
It also means that a single spent fuel pool – at reactor 4, which has lost all of its water and thus faces a release of its radioactive material - has 75% as much nuclear fuel as at all of Chernobyl.

However, the real numbers are even worse.

Specifically, Tepco very recently transferred many more radioactive spent fuel rods into the storage pools. According to Associated Press, there were – at the time of the earthquake and tsunami – 3,400 tons of fuel in seven spent fuel pools plus 877 tons of active fuel in the cores of the reactors.

That totals 4,277 tons of nuclear fuel at Fukushima.

Which means that there is almost 24 times more nuclear fuel at Fukushima than Chernobyl"
cartaphilus

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04/27/2012 08:33 AM
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Re: Something really strange about Fukushima compared to Chernobyl
yeah.. you can look at it in one of two ways...

not pouring water on chernobyl back then.. probably either A: made it worse.. or B: helped tons..

so maybe the dumbasses thought if they tried something different it would help.. i mean its simple.. they prob were like "hey! instead of drying this baby out like they did in chernobyl... how about we try and drown this sucker!" u know?
 Quoting: Cellz


rockon
we don't always know what we are doing.
Anonymous Coward
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04/27/2012 08:34 AM
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Re: Something really strange about Fukushima compared to Chernobyl
Wauw its nice to sit in the sun with white clouds and a blue sky.

I hope it doesnt get brown like all the waters here.


It feels even nicer when you think about a planet aquarium in space.
Burt Gummer

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04/27/2012 08:38 AM

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Re: Something really strange about Fukushima compared to Chernobyl
all this fukushima doom makes me laff. all you gotta do is buy a geiger counter and you will see that there is no more radiation now than there ever was. it dispersed around the planet, the planet is really really big by the way, and it is now not harmful to you as long as youre not in close vicinity to the plant itself. case closed.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14929099


What a mindless sheep you are. Pfft.


winds chern
GeekOfTheWeek

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04/27/2012 08:55 AM
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Re: Something really strange about Fukushima compared to Chernobyl
Thanks for enlightening us...This is becoming far worse then Chernybol in my judgement....this event is a NUCLEAR HOLOCUST...not being talked about by gov, or media...they give us the same song and dance ...
 Quoting: InflateScrewJob


Becoming??? Really? 1 vs 3 blown up. How is that becoming worse???

The Japs just let this go on and on. WHY?
I love physics. It bonds us eternally, it's what makes our computers work, it's what's in my morning cup of coffee, it's the thing that keeps the universe from vanishing due to lack of belief...
Burt Gummer

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04/27/2012 08:57 AM

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Re: Something really strange about Fukushima compared to Chernobyl
Thanks for enlightening us...This is becoming far worse then Chernybol in my judgement....this event is a NUCLEAR HOLOCUST...not being talked about by gov, or media...they give us the same song and dance ...
 Quoting: InflateScrewJob


Becoming??? Really? 1 vs 3 blown up. How is that becoming worse???

The Japs just let this go on and on. WHY?
 Quoting: GeekOfTheWeek


True dat.


"becoming" worse???? crazy

adjective failsmile for InflateScrewJob getwell

Last Edited by Useless Cookie Eater on 04/27/2012 08:58 AM
Anonymous Coward
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04/27/2012 09:02 AM
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Re: Something really strange about Fukushima compared to Chernobyl
THEY HAVE TO KEEP THE SPENT FUEL RODS COOL U IDIOTS
Vlad Tepes (OP)

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04/27/2012 09:32 AM
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Re: Something really strange about Fukushima compared to Chernobyl
THEY HAVE TO KEEP THE SPENT FUEL RODS COOL U IDIOTS
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10561004


Fuel rods have melted. At least in reactor 1, possibly in others too.
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Atom-Boy

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04/27/2012 09:51 AM
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Re: Something really strange about Fukushima compared to Chernobyl
THEY HAVE TO KEEP THE SPENT FUEL RODS COOL U IDIOTS
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10561004


Fuel rods have melted. At least in reactor 1, possibly in others too.
 Quoting: Vlad Tepes


But even the molten Fuel need cooling,
without it the Fuel will melt a long Time through
the Containment and to the Ground which is
called "China Syndrome"!
G.Y.!B.E.
Monbazillac

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04/27/2012 09:53 AM
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Re: Something really strange about Fukushima compared to Chernobyl
all this fukushima doom makes me laff. all you gotta do is buy a geiger counter and you will see that there is no more radiation now than there ever was. it dispersed around the planet, the planet is really really big by the way, and it is now not harmful to you as long as youre not in close vicinity to the plant itself. case closed.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14929099


What a mindless sheep you are. Pfft.


winds chern
 Quoting: Burt Gummer


clappa
Anonymous Coward
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04/27/2012 09:59 AM
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Re: Something really strange about Fukushima compared to Chernobyl
099 in UK Regular detectors can't pick up a lot of the particle radiation because it travels only one or two millimeters. If the particles lodge in your lungs or are ingested with food or water they are inside you blasting away from point blank range causing cancers etc. See some of Gundersens early videos. Heavy particles from Fukushima were found in New England within weeks after the intial explosions. The steam from the water would cause the particles riding on concrete dust water molecules (like a baloon can carry weights) to be carried long distances. SEE JAPAN BALOON BOMBS IN WW II. Do a search on it.

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