Christians: We are not under the law of the Old Testament....................

Very eloquently and concisely stated, sir.

I'd like to add, it seems VERY difficult for most people to utter the words "I don't know" and more rare, "I was wrong".

That adds a lot to the bumping of heads I often see on these threads.

Generalizing dude is generalizing.

:P

True.

But when 99% of the christians ARE being argumentative, child minded idiots setting an utterly rotten example of love and patience as Jesus taught them to do, and then someone comes along sick of the crap and spells it out for what it is, and all but one or two out of all the christians get all upset because they have been exposed for the total hypocrites they are, then its ok to be general.

Because IN general, as in 99% of christians..ARE useless argumentative, childsish, selfish, self rightous, know it all, must be right at all costs, IDIOTS.

For more information about Jesus the High Priest, please read Hebrews 6:13-8:6.

For more about the Sacrifice of Jesus, please read Hebrews 9:1-10:24.


If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
-- Hebrews 7:11


So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
-- Hebrews 9:28

Was just givin' ya crap for a laugh. Hence the :P

Believe me, I understand. Spent a decade as an atheist and even now that I've re-found my faith (or more accurately, it found me) it seems I'm constantly running into "Oh, you're a believer now, that's great. Wait, you OBEY?!?! Whaaaaa? That's HORRIBLE!"

Never satisfied, it seems.

AS for the sacrifice questions, this is the best answer I can find online. I'm still not 100% satisfied with it so, I'm sure I'll continue to research for a while.

[link to www.straightdope.com]

It's basically a very long, drawn out "because the Temple was destroyed in 70 AD" ... but at least it teaches a bit of history and such.

i hear ya. OPs need to bring the ban hammer down to keep her out, and report abusive posts.

BAN HER AT THE STAKE!

Her and I have about a 2 year history of going back and forth on religious crap.

When I converted from atheism she was on the 120+ thread I'd made to discuss issues of faith and such.

She had read I was raised Catholic and has been obsessed with getting me to return to HER faith using such arrogant statements as "One True Faith".

Way back then, my temper was mostly unchecked. It just flowed like hot lava, so, I often "tore her apart" brutally. So, she's somewhat justified in her grudge.

Then the day came that I must have tried for 8 or 10 pages to meet in the middle with her and she was having no part of it.

All that crap said, I don't think I'd ever ban her from one of my threads. She has just as much right to express herself as anyone else ... and there's trolls on here that are FAR, FAR worse.

I'm truly hoping that tonight she and I made progress towards a peace between us. Because honestly, peace is what I seek.

her tactics, delivery, and things she chooses to say suggest a very disturbed person.

She's a LOT smarter than she lets on. She'll intentionally state things she knows gets a negative reaction then plays it off under the guise that she's totally innocent and only trying to help.

It's really funny when you actually think about it.

Pretty tactful, too.

The premise Christians: We are not under the law of the Old Testament....................


is silly


Sure some Romans like the first pope might have wanted you to believe that but Jesus says :


“The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat.

So you must obey them and do everything they tell you.”

(Matthew 23:2-3)


Sure sounds like Jesus was teaching people to follow Jewish law as taught by the Pharisees


CHRISTIANS LOVE TO IGNORE THIS TEACHING

In Shem Tov's Hebrew Matthew (many scholars believe Matthew was actually written in Hebrew, the many, many, many Hebrew word puns contained within support this) says, "Do has he says" not "Do as they say".

Amazing how one little word can change the whole meaning of the statement.

How the "bible is inerrant" folks resolve this for themselves, I know not.

“Mosaic Law”… “The Law of Moses” … what …?

1. Moses had no rules or “laws” of his own. 2. Moses was a scribe and he wrote down the Towrah of Yahowah. 3. Although most often translated as “LAW”, In Hebrew, Towrah is better translated into English as teaching, instructions and guidance.

Man loves to throw around words like, “KEEP”, “DO” and “OBEY” yet the Hebrew words they come from, Shamar and Shama’ more accurately translate to Observe and Listen.

Yahowah has given “all” men, created in His likeness the same three gifts… Life, Freewill and a Conscience (the ability to learn and to know right from wrong).

He does not demand that you choose to engage in a relationship with Him. He does not demand that you obey Him. He does not demand that you worship Him. Yet He does have a few conditions if you choose to engage in a relationship with Him the results of which are highly beneficial to the person choosing to walk towardHim.

“Yahowah’s Towrah (Towrah – written instruction and teaching, source of direction and guidance) is complete and entirely perfect (tamym – without defect, lacking nothing, correct, sound, genuine, right, helpful, healing, beneficial, and true), returning, restoring, and transforming (suwb – turning around, bringing back, changing, and renewing) the soul (nepesh – consciousness). Yahowah’s testimony (‘eduwth – witness) is trustworthy and reliable (‘aman – verifiable, confirming, supportive, and establishing), making understanding and obtaining wisdom (hakam – educating and enlightening to the point of comprehension) simple for the open-minded (pethy).” (Psalm 19:7)

The change in laws is discussed at length in the letter to the Hebrews. In Hebrews 1:1-2 the author says "God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days has spoken to us in his Son whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world." God has changed the manner in which he directs his people. This change was foretold in Jeremiah 31:31-34: "Behold days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them," declares the LORD. "But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days," declares the LORD, "I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it, and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD, for they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest of them," declares the LORD, "for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more." "Notice that God said the covenant(testament) would be different from the law given at Mt Sinai. Why would God change his law? Did he change his mind? No. The change in the law was planned from the very beginning. Before the world was created, God planned to send his Son and that through Jesus we would obtain salvation I Peter 1:19-20, II Timothy 1:9, II Thessalonians 2: 13-14. Such a salvation through Christ could not take place under the law given by Moses.

Romans 15:4 tells us that OT was written for our learning to bring us patience and hope. It contains examples for us so that we will not be caught unaware and make the same mistakes that the Israelites made I Corinthians 10:1-12. In Galatians 3:24-25, we find that the OT is our teacher, to bring us to Christ. Now that Christ has come, we are no longer under its dominion. So we see that we can learn from the examples found in the OT, but when we must determine what God would have us to do today we must turn to his current will the NT.

[link to carm.org]
[link to www.letusreason.org]

The New Testament is just about MONEY, after you clear away the bullshit, astrozombie assimilation, astrology and buddah rip offs. The real deal is Mathew 21:12

The New TESTAMENTS 11th commandmenT:

"Thou shalt not FUCK with the Moneychangers"

Then Revelations discusses currency. Dont worry, you have ALREADY accepted the "number of the beast" because you use it every day: it is PAPER CURRENCY.

And yes, it effects your soul; you end up doing ANYTHING for money. It demonizes those who are behind the control of money; and reinforces the instinct that one is OVERWEALMED by... you guessed it...

the moneychangers. BANKERS.

So you see, after all the bullshit is cleared, its all about the MONEY.

So are you saying we should stone homosexuals because that is one of the old laws.

[link to www.swartzentrover.com]

There is no sanhedrin. To think that Hebrews ran around with rocks in their pockets is like thinking that Texans run around with electric chairs in their pockets.

Stoning was a direction to the judges of the sanhedrin.

I am so glad the I am not a Christian.

Me too, I'm glad you're not either.

Just kidding :P

That was beautiful.

erp derp?

Ah!

Derp.

Seems you feel you have an axe to grind. Sorry that someone has hurt you in the past and you feel a need to hold such negative bias over it. I really mean that.

EDIT: Wow, someone gave you negative karma for being a tobacco user? Sheesh, people get their panties in a bunch here for almost anything these days.

Last Edited by Sir Phydeau on 05/01/2012 02:35 PM

Thank You OP!
This is why so many find the bible contradictory. And why people like that of the Landover Baptist Church forum (parody) get by with crazy bible quotes.
example:
one might argue, "no it says in the bible an eye for an eye, tooth for tooth etc. Deuteronomy 18:21
but then one can also go to the new, where Christ revised in matthew 5:38-40.
But really the bible is more a historical reference than anything.
If you follow what Christ says in matthew 22:36-40, the rest is just a learning tool.

Matthew 22:36-40:
36) Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37) Jesus said unto him, thou shall love thy Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38) This is the first and great commandment.
39)And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
40) On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
God bless!

Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:19

Yes 13479329:
If you love your neighbor as you love yourself (basicly the "Golden Rule") all the commandments fit into that.

I wish to address this portion only for the reason that so few modern believers truly understand what is being said here.

Having the Word cut up into numbered sound bytes is a relatively new thing. Back then, there wasn't even punctuation, much less chapter breaks and numbered verses.

So, let's say back then I wanted to express John 3:16. I would state, "For YHWH so loved the world".

This begins @ Deut 6:4

"4 “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one! 5 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.

6 “And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart. 7 You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up. 8 You shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes. (The "Mark of YHWH" as the mark of the Beast will be on one's hand or forehead) 9 You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.

ANY Hebrew older than about 5 or 6 would have instantly known what He was saying there.

Another example of the same thing that's got deep poetic beauty is when He is on the stake. He says, "Eli Eli lama sabachthani?" which is, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

He was not having a crisis of faith. He was saying the opening line of Psalm 22. Think about that moment. His followers in great emotional pain suddenly hearing that line and suddenly having that entire Psalm flood their heads.

There's many, many, MANY other statements, moments and events that the depth and poetic beauty is all but lost on most of modern Christianity due to their anti-Semitism and the RCC hatred of anything Hebraic.

Last Edited by Sir Phydeau on 05/01/2012 03:34 PM

"Hang upon" it, actually. Just as a coat hangs on a hanger. Does the coat hanger abolish the coat?

Last Edited by Sir Phydeau on 05/01/2012 03:32 PM

Mods, Salt and "Sir" are former Catholics who attack the faith and others personally especially if they share the true teachings of the faith. This isn't a discussion forum if you can't object to their posts. Correct?

Sodomy is a mortal sin, it's been established, we know
since the Old Testament. There are tons of objections in Salt's thread. She dishes up more personal negative than she receives.

Hey, what happened to your forgive me "Sir?" What a con.

You are explaining to everyone who you really are today.

Catholicism is the true faith and your "disturbed" mix is false and this why you attack the faith and me personally.

When I and others (there was one gentleman, he explained your sect, it's phoniness in a sentence with his posts) point it out, you turn to insults, the vulgar or Bah, hah, poor sorry "Sir."

Attack Protestantism, please lay off Catholicism.

You're not going to that, you're Protestant now. "My people"....you were baptized Roman Catholic. You're not Jewish.

Start your own thread if you can't handle comments to say no way are we in the Old Covenant and Yahshua is my personal Lord and Savior.

M'Lady, are you actually trying to ask for mods to ban us for picking on you?

Why do you insist on grabbing on a single statement I make and then repeating it over and over and over on thread after thread?

Oh, that's rich, you imply I'm a whiner in the very same post that you're whining and calling out to mods. You repeatedly call me "vulgar" when I've not directed any profanity to you in a year or so. Grow up. Disagreeing is NOT "can't handle". It's called standing your ground.

I thought we made peace last night. Calm down.

Your belief of "once catholic always catholic" is utter poppycock.

It's not my fault they refuse to ex-communicate me.

Stop replying to my postings.

Last Edited by Sir Phydeau on 05/01/2012 03:44 PM

The problem is you cannot. Hence the need of the laws.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

All scripture is the whole bible, not just the old testament, and not just the new testament. It doesn't say some scripture, it says all a scripture. The whole bible is a law book, you don't take anything away from it, nor and anything to it.