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A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)

 
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A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
Before I start off I would like to mention a few things. This is not a hate thread and it's not my intention to start a big fight between Christians and atheists. I hope we can keep this thread peaceful and mature. If you want to express your opinion and start a discussion that's fine, as long as it doesn't go out of control. Remember, keep it civilized and mature. If you, while reading this post, get the impression that I mock atheists or being disrespectful to them, forgive me if it comes off like that. It is not my intention to hate anyone or to be disrespectful. I hope this thread will generate dozens of pages filled with interesting posts. Also, it would mean a lot to me if you read this entire post. I just don't like when people post something and they haven't read anything. They see a Christian making a thread and they instantly post "retarded Christian!" or other immature stuff. As I said, it would mean the world to me if you read this entire post. I just feel like this is a very important thread for me to make and as a Christian I feel obligated to spread this message. Don't look at this thread as "...another Bible thumping thread" because it is not, although a few Bible quotes are inevitable to appear from time to time. :D

Alright, I got that out of my chest. Let us begin! What exactly defines atheism? Atheism really is nothing. Many people see atheism as logical and critical thinking and other people see atheism as a way of living by your own rules and to seek yourself. The general definition is simply; "not believing in a God". This is what atheists believe, right? That's alright with me. You have a free mind and you get to choose whatever you want to believe in. I have no problem with that. However, I tend to disagree with some of the things atheists say and this thread is simply to answer some arguments atheists frequently use as a way to "disprove" God. If you disagree with me on the stuff I'm about to write feel free to start a discussion. (Remember... civilized!)

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CONTENTS:

1) Atheist: Who created God?

2) Atheist: God does not exist?

3) Atheist: The existence of God is illogical!

4) Atheist: Can God create a rock...

5) Atheist: Prove God!

6) Atheist: I only believe in what I can see and touch.

7) God is spiritual and is proved with spiritual methods.

8) Logical proof of God.

9) Einstein and Strindberg. Wise men!
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1) Atheist: Who created God?

I hear this argument all the time! Atheist use this argument frequently to disprove the existence of God. I understand the argument, I do, but there are many flaws. First of all, the question "who created God?" ASSUMES that God is limited. It assumes that God has a beginning and will therefor have an end. But the God of the Bible doesn't have a limit, He doesn't have a beginning and an end. God was never created because He does not consist of the unaware created matter, but by the aware eternal spiritual energy. Besides, God can't have been created by someone else, because God by definition is FIRST, the reason of all cause! God was first. How on Earth's name can the first one be created? That's like asking "what letter comes before A?".

THE CREATER COULD NOT HAVE BEEN CREATED BECAUSE IN THAT CASE HE WOULDN'T BE THE CREATOR!

God is outside of His Creation. He is outside of our universe. God created time, space and matter and God is OUTSIDE of all that. There is no time where God is, only eternity. God simply just is. He hasn't been created. And strangely enough, the atheist never ask themself the same question about Big Bang. Where did Big Bang come from? Big Bang, according to the text books, created everything in the universe. It therefor created time, space and matter as well. Which came first? Without space, where do you put matter? Without time, WHEN do you put matter? You see how time, space and matter must have been created at the EXACT same time? Big Bang teaches us that everything created itself out of absolutely nothing. Let me ask you this. How did Big Bang explode? Where did the energy for this explosion come from? Out of nowhere? Where did time, space and matter come from? Out of nowhere? For some reason, people really believe Big Bang occured. People seriously believe that everything in existence created itself out of absolutely nothing.

The universe must have an original cause!
There has to be a first original cause otherwise the universe wouldn't exist. Matter can't be the first cause becase life, awareness and intelligence can simply not plop out of lifeless matter. Matter cannot have created itself. To believe that matter is the original cause of the universe is the same as believing that mud is the cause of the crock. By practical experience every human knows that there's NOTHING which can create itself out of nothing. Mud had a creator. Believing that something can create itself is a stupid fable and only narrow minded atheists will believe that. (Sorry for being a tad harsh but it's true)

Not believing in an original first cause which created our universe is as stupid as believing that everything we see around us came out of nothingness.
God is in His original spiritual shape forever in the spiritual world, in God's kingdom, which was never created and will never be gone. Humans are just by nature greedy and full of pride. We want to be God's ourselves, we want to follow our own rules. The suffering in this world is a wake up call for all of us to realize that we do not belong here in this world full of evil of pain.
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2) Atheist: God does not exist!

That is a definite assumption, an absolute. Only someone who's all knowing can come with definite assumptions like that. Are you all knowing? By saying something like that you sure make it seem like that. In that case, you're God! Because you know EVERYTHING there is!
But no man knows everything, we know very little in ratio to what there is to know. But let's just assume for one moment that you know 50% of everything. That's a lot of knowledge. What if God exists on the other side, the other 50%?
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3) Atheist: The existence of God is illogical.

If you think that it's illogical for God to exist, did you ever stop to think the same thing about yourself? Do you think it's logial for you to exist? Why is your own existence more logical than God's? To believe that our own existence came about without an existing cause is the same as believing that sunrays can exist without the sun.
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4) Atheist: Can God create a rock so heavy He cannot lift it Himself? And if he can't lift it, he's not almighty.

God is so almighty that He can expand Himself in two seperate shapes in which he lifts the rock in one, and does not lift the rock in the other shape. Besides, God is infinitely strong so it's a piece of cake for Him to lift a rock which is infinitely heavy.
If I would ask you to draw a square triangle what would you do? Would you take out your pencil and draw one? No you wouldn't because you know that a triangle per definition has three sides, not four. To draw a "square triangle" says nothing about your ability to draw triangles (or squares) because a "square triangle" is simply a nonsense expression I made up by puttin two words together. A rock so heavy no one can lift it is the same nonsense expression because a rock is per definition an object with a weight and can always be lifted assuming you're strong enough. To talk about a "rock to heavy for anyone to lift" is just as much nonsense as a square triangle. The "argument" is not a proper argument against God or his Almightyness, it's just a game with words. It's a logical contradiction, which is indeed pretty funny, but it does not hold up as an argument.
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5) Atheist: Prove God!

Atheists always demand God to appear Himself in front of their eyes before they will start believing. This is simply pride and God does not answer prideful challenges just as much as the President of USA would pay you a visit without you giving him any worthy qualifications which caught his attention. Ask yourself this: Do you, as an atheist, deserve to have a personal visit by the Almighty? What are your qualifications? When you can't even get the President of USA to pay you a visit, what makes you think God would appear in His all Greatness in front of your very eyes? It's the opposite. Atheists despise God, they spit on Him and do not want to get rid of their illusion that God does not exist. They want it to stay that way and because God does not interfere with the free will, the atheist will never feel the presence of God until he change his attitude. For the atheist, God will prove His existence when it's too late, when you're dead.
You cannot *see* God until you *realize*. Remember that. You must realize that God is essential and that His existence is the foundation of everything that is. First *realize* then *see*. If you cannot realize that the existence of God is essential for the universe to exist, how can we ever prove to such a blind person the existence of God when he doesn't have a clue about God's spiritual nature, looks and personality. You can never prove or convince an atheist about God or anything other that's spiritual because that atheist is spiritual blind.
This is like proving a color for someone who's blind.
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6) Atheist: I only believe in what I can see and touch.

Can you see, hear or touch your thoughts?
Can you see, hear or touch your intelligence?
Can you see, hear or touch your conciousness?

No, you can't. There are phenomenon in this world which cannot be perceived with our physical senses. That's just the way it is. Because you don't really believe you're thoughtless, without a concious and an IQ with a negative value? I thought so. That's all I have to say. :D
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7) God is spiritual and is proved with spiritual methods.

God is outside of the capabilites of science because God is spiritual and eternal and is not bound by time and matter as we are. He created a world accessable for scientific methods, but He is beyond it. This is not a weakness for a belief in Creation, just a limitation within science. The definition of science is gathering information by observing and experimenting, and from this make logical conclusions. God created a world which we can define by science. But He Himself cannot be defined in the same way. We can't see Him in a microscope or a telescope because He is outside of His Creation and using material instruments to find Him is useless. God is not material, He's spiritual all through and God is therefor not a part of our scientific competency which only deals with the material part of reality.
Science is a method, formulated by man, to study the physical reality. There's absolutely NOTHING which says (more than your own pride) that there isn't anything beyond our physical reality.

MATERIAL phenomenon can only be proven by MATERIAL methods!
SPIRITUAL phenomenon can only be proven by SPIRITUAL methods!

God's existence can only be found in the spiritual dimension which means that all of the atheists attempts to find Him with material methods have all been in vain and will forever fail. God can be found in our hearts and He will never leave our hearts. But to see, hear, experience or feel Him in our hearts is only possible when your heart is completely pure and washed away from all your sins. You just need to humble yourself and be sincere, first then will the proof come to you. You cannot find proof by using a binocular or measuringtape :D
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8) Logical proof of God.

Perfection in the Creation:

How can it be that everything is so perfect? Everything is just so balanced and it's just simply amazing. The human body is so complex that scientists can't even explain half of how it works. Many interactions in nature are hard to explain without a "Creator". The whole Creation shows that there must be some form of logic behind it all. For many people, the perfection of our planet and the universe is proof enough.

The quest for the meaning of life:

Humans always needs something to live for because it's not enough to just exist. For some reason we always seek some form of a meaning. It's like we lost our meaning of life and since then we try to find it again in a way or another. Someone can give us the meaning of life, this Someone has to be God. The need for a meaning of life is a clue or proof that God exists.

The inner void:

Sometimes we speak of an inner void in humans, something which is missing. There are surprisingly many people who feel like there's something missing. Why do we have that feeling of emptiness? This emptiness came when we decided not to have anything to do with God. When you seek God it's just like this emptiness is replaced with a meaning. It's the same for all believers in God and this is a clue or proof that God exists.

The personal experience of God:

You often hear believers say: "I've experienced God". So many people can witness about the presence of God that it simply cannot be made up. This presence of God is mutual for all believers and something like that would have been impossible if God was just a made up person. Faith is a conviction of things you do not see.
The whole universe just seems so perfectly calibrated to make life possible. For this to be the work of Mr. Coincidence a.k.a. Big Bang is something only dopey, foggy theorists believe in. Just take your eyes as an example. Each eye has 110 million pixels each. Only someone as brilliant as God can come up with something that genius!
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9) Einstein and Strindberg. Wise men!

"When I read the Bhagavad-Gita and reflect about how God created this universe everything else seems so superfluous." Albert Einstein

"It's just as illogical to believe in the world but deny God, as it is to believe in the shoe but deny the shoemaker" August Strindberg
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What do you say folks? Hopefully this got you thinking a little bit. The Bible mentions how humans will behave during the end times. Humans will be lovers of themselves in the end times according to the Bible. Does that not fit the world today? Go to any gym and you'll see a guy standing in front of a mirror looking at his muscles and his clean shaved, tanned body. Humans will also walk after their own lust. Surely our world today is lustful, more than ever. We are living in the end times folks. Last chapters of revelations are coming true. The human behaviour today fits perfectly with end times scripture. Also, natural disasters have increased alot the past 100 years! A lot! There's also a lot of tensions between many of the strongest nations on Earth and the Bible says that there will be rumors of wars (WW3). And the past 100 years we've seen a huge increase in technology and the Bible mentions a period in human history where this would happen!

Well... this is all I had for now. God bless anyone who actually read this far! I'm sorry if there are any spelling or grammar mistakes. I'm only a 19 year old kid from Sweden so my English vocabulary is limited. The sentence structure might also be flawed here and there but it's really late here in Sweden and I wrote this pretty quickly.
I can go on and on how my life has changed since I found Jesus Christ when I was about 17 years old, but I think I will pass on that actually. Needless to say, my life changed for the better. No emptiness, no depression and no hate in my body. I just feel happy and pure, it's an awesome feeling! The free gift of salvation cannot do you any harm! Why not accept the gift Jesus Christ gave us when he sacrificed Himself for us? Don't know what to do? Read this website: [link to christianity.about.com]

If you do what the link above says, and you're sincere about it then you're saved. Your soul is not damned any longer. But why stop there? Why not go out there and spread the word about Jesus Christ and the gift of salvation? Find out what His will is and do it! Live a great life, hate no one, fear no one, love thy Lord, read scriptures, talk to the Lord every day by praying and as mentioned, win souls to Christ!
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Still not sure what to make of all this? I recommend you check out my other thread about Kent Hovind. His seminars are simply AMAZING! Words cannot describe how amazing they are. His seminars alone must have saved thousands and thousands of souls. Simply amazing.

Thread: Kent Hovind. Spread the word.
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Last Edited by Marlo Stanfield on 06/26/2012 07:18 PM
humanitech
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05/03/2012 08:26 PM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
Friend this thread ...just confirms the bipolar nature of universal reality. Not that it matters or changes how each bipolar humans choose to find, loose, confuse and delude themselves, about both their own lives and mortality and existence.

It amazes me that all our hierarchal doctrines and elitist delusion all claim the same assumption ..that we humans are somehow very important and special things and righteous in some way above everything (except our own corrupt and created hierarchies of course..religion being one of many)

Basically friend ...what we think and do here does not actually matter in the slighted (except of course to us and our lives now). Bipolar Infinity does not have any conscience or require an u;timate designer creator figure or hierarchal leaders and or polar oppositions..these are all delusional human constructs

How can it be that the universe is full of bipolar energy and matter and completely unstable and always cyclically changing (yet according to religious texts and folks was solely created by a polar singularity (all positve, good and loving) called god?...isn't that a contradiction and theorectically impossible ..or is god actually bipolar too?
also strangely come the rules of engagement..iet strangely this god does not comply to the same rules and commandments or morales ..hmmm very interesting

Have you ever considered that your god and devil thingy's are simply the polarised extremes of the self same energy..that we now called bipolar electricity? cos it can bring light and life and ironnically destroy and kill too!

Now tell me friend...do you think electricity really has a soul or even conscience to think, feel or reflect about it's positive and negative actions and interaction..if No then why do you create a religion and institional hierarchal system that claims you need to serve and pray to it for some form of salvation?

Secondlt religion use the world eternal for heaven and hell therefore bipolar reality of good and bad is eternal then. God and the devil can't neutralise eachother..it's that confirmation of bipolar reality too..therefore both ways confirm that all energy, matter and life (i.e. the evolving expressions of these positive and negative forces) are infinite bipolar and get re-used and recycle..but I think without any purpose or meaning or agenda..as I said before these are all human rationales and contructs..Not universal constructs.

Anyway it really doen't matter friend and I think you have right to believe and delude yourself to whatever makes you happy..but truth that's another matter entirely, which humans are not geared to see or accept. This thread and my response only confirms this point
The Ghost of Hitch
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05/03/2012 08:53 PM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
First, you must know some pretty simpleminded atheists if those are the sort of questions you get.

They sound more like questions some Christian evangelist would claim atheists ask in order to deliver his trite patronizing rhetoric.

Secondly... KEN HOVIND?

Really?
At this stage we're still getting links to Ken Hovind?

Ken "arrested on 58 charges of fraud and tax evasion" Hovind...
That's who you use as the backbone of your thread?


Fair enough but I am forced to question his integrity given his history, anyway back to your questions...

TBH, I never ask any of those questions you posit as common atheist inquiries.
But here's a question I do sometimes ask people like you... what kind of God allows Josef Fritzel's daughter to suffer twenty years of rape and captivity at the hands of her father?

What was the "divine" plan for her and all the other countless souls suffering like her right this second?

You don't think they are praying, begging God to help them... but for most of them, for 99% of them... God is callously silent.

What possible lesson did God want her to learn and could only be delivered by twenty years of rape, every single day for two decades of her life?
For her to give birth to his children and then have them forced to watch?

How DARE you preach this drivel about a compassionate God in the face of such suffering, what cheek, what arrogance, what blindness.

I'm sure God works in mysterious ways and all, but I'm just asking you to speculate, hypothesize for us, wonder aloud... what was your all loving compassionate God trying to teach that girl?

Your God created all of existence knowing that one day that girl would be in that basement... Please, justify that with your faith if you can and demonstrate the utter arrogance and lack of any real compassion that typifies the religous believer.

You make yourself feel better with warm and fluffy stories about a caring God benevolently watching over his children... You just ignore the vast unimaginable scale of innocent suffering in the world.

A single child doesn't die in a burning building and you're all praising God's intervention while you ignore the other countless children enduring brutal horrific suffering every second of the day.

Religion isn't a crutch, it's a fluffy pillow you bury your face in and shut out the reality of existence because you can't cope any other way.

I trust my tone was civil enough for your thread, good day.
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
Before I start off I would like to mention a few things. This is not a hate thread and it's not my intention to start a big fight between Christians and atheists. I hope we can keep this thread peaceful and mature. If you want to express your opinion and start a discussion that's fine, as long as it doesn't go out of control. Remember, keep it civilized and mature. If you, while reading this post, get the impression that I mock atheists or being disrespectful to them, forgive me if it comes off like that. It is not my intention to hate anyone or to be disrespectful. I hope this thread will generate dozens of pages filled with interesting posts. Also, it would mean a lot to me if you read this entire post. I just don't like when people post something and they haven't read anything. They see a Christian making a thread and they instantly post "retarded Christian!" or other immature stuff. As I said, it would mean the world to me if you read this entire post. I just feel like this is a very important thread for me to make and as a Christian I feel obligated to spread this message. Don't look at this thread as "...another Bible thumping thread" because it is not, although a few Bible quotes are inevitable to appear from time to time. :D

Alright, I got that out of my chest. Let us begin! What exactly defines atheism? Atheism really is nothing. Many people see atheism as logical and critical thinking and other people see atheism as a way of living by your own rules and to seek yourself. The general definition is simply; "not believing in a God". This is what atheists believe, right? That's alright with me. You have a free mind and you get to choose whatever you want to believe in. I have no problem with that. However, I tend to disagree with some of the things atheists say and this thread is simply to answer some arguments atheists frequently use as a way to "disprove" God. If you disagree with me on the stuff I'm about to write feel free to start a discussion. (Remember... civilized!)

_____________________________________________________________​__

CONTENTS:

1) Atheist: Who created God?

2) Atheist: God does not exist?

3) Atheist: The existence of God is illogical!

4) Atheist: Can God create a rock...

5) Atheist: Prove God!

6) Atheist: I only believe in what I can see and touch.

7) God is spiritual and is proved with spiritual methods.

8) Logical proof of God.

9) Einstein and Strindberg. Wise men!
_____________________________________________________________​_


1) Atheist: Who created God?

I hear this argument all the time! Atheist use this argument frequently to disprove the existence of God. I understand the argument, I do, but there are many flaws. First of all, the question "who created God?" ASSUMES that God is limited. It assumes that God has a beginning and will therefor have an end. But the God of the Bible doesn't have a limit, He doesn't have a beginning and an end. God was never created because He does not consist of the unaware created matter, but by the aware eternal spiritual energy. Besides, God can't have been created by someone else, because God by definition is FIRST, the reason of all cause! God was first. How on Earth's name can the first one be created? That's like asking "what letter comes before A?".

THE CREATER CANNOT BE CREATED BECAUSE IN THAT CASE HE WOULDN'T BE THE CREATOR.

God is outside of His Creation. He is outside of our universe. God created time, space and matter and God is OUTSIDE of all that. There is no time where God is, only eternity. God simply just is. He hasn't been created. And strangely enough, the atheist never ask themself the same question about Big Bang. Where did Big Bang come from? Big Bang, according to the text books, created everything in the universe. It therefor created time, space and matter as well. Which came first? Without space, where do you put matter? Without time, WHEN do you put matter? You see how time, space and matter must have been created at the EXACT same time? Big Bang teaches us that everything created itself out of absolutely nothing. Let me ask you this. How did Big Bang explode? Where did the energy for this explosion come from? Out of nowhere? Where did time, space and matter come from? Out of nowhere? For some reason, people really believe Big Bang occured. People seriously believe that everything in existence created itself out of absolutely nothing.

The universe must have an original cause!
There has to be a first original cause otherwise the universe wouldn't exist. Matter can't be the first cause becase life, awareness and intelligence can simply not plop out of lifeless matter. Matter cannot have created itself. To believe that matter is the original cause of the universe is the same as believing that mud is the cause of the crock. By practical experience every human knows that there's NOTHING which can create itself out of nothing. Mud had a creator. Believing that something can create itself is a stupid fable and only narrow minded atheists will believe that. (Sorry for being a tad harsh but it's true)

Not believing in an original first cause which created our universe is as stupid as believing that everything we see around us came out of nothingness.
God is in His original spiritual shape forever in the spiritual world, in God's kingdom, which was never created and will never be gone. Humans are just by nature greedy and full of pride. We want to be God's ourselves, we want to follow our own rules. The suffering in this world is a wake up call for all of us to realize that we do not belong here in this world full of evil of pain.
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2) Atheist: God does not exist!

That is a definite assumption, an absolute. Only someone who's all knowing can come with definite assumptions like that. Are you all knowing? By saying something like that you sure make it seem like that. In that case, you're God! Because you know EVERYTHING there is!
But no man knows everything, we know very little in ratio to what there is to know. But let's just assume for one moment that you know 50% of everything. That's a lot of knowledge. What if God exists on the other side, the other 50%?
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3) Atheist: The existence of God is illogical.

If you think that it's illogical for God to exist, did you ever stop to think the same thing about yourself? Do you think it's logial for you to exist? Why is your own existence more logial than God's? To believe that our own existence came about without an existing cause is the same as believing that sunrays can exist without the sun.
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4) Atheist: Can God create a rock so heavy He cannot lift it Himself? And if he can't lift it, he's not almighty.

God is so almighty that He can expand Himself in two seperate shapes in which he lifts the rock in one, and does not lift the rock in the other shape. Besides, God is infinitely strong so it's a piece of cake for Him to lift a rock which is infinitely heavy.
If I would ask you to draw a square triangle what would you do? Would you take out your pencil and draw one? No you wouldn't because you know that a triangle per definition has three sides, not four. To draw a "square triangle" says nothing about your ability to draw triangles (or squares) because a "square triangle" is simply a nonsense expression I made up by puttin two words together. A rock so heavy no one can lift it is the same nonsense expression because a rock is per definition an object with a weight and can always be lifted assuming you're strong enough. To talk about a "rock to heavy for anyone to lift" is just as much nonsense as a square triangle. The "argument" is not a proper argument against God or his Almightyness, it's just a game with words. It's a logical contradiction, which is indeed pretty funny, but it does not hold up as an argument.
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5) Atheist: Prove God!

Atheists always demand God to appear Himself in front of their eyes before they will start believing. This is simply pride and God does not answer prideful challenges just as much as the President of USA would pay you a visit without you giving him any worthy qualifications which caught his attention. Ask yourself this: Do you, as an atheist, deserve to have a personal visit by the Almighty? What are your qualifications? When you can't even get the President of USA to pay you a visit, what makes you think God would appear in His all Greatness in front of your very eyes? It's the opposite. Atheists despise God, they spit on Him and do not want to get rid of their illusion that God does not exist. They want it to stay that way and because God does not interfere with the free will, the atheist will never feel the presence of God until he change his attitude. For the atheist, God will prove His existence when it's too late, when you're dead.
You cannot *see* God until you *realize*. Remember that. You must realize that God is essential and that His existence is the foundation of everything that is. First *realize* then *see*. If you cannot realize that the existence of God is essential for the universe to exist, how can you ever prove to such a blind person that existence of God when he doesn't have a clue about God's spiritual nature, looks and personality. You can never prove or convince an atheist about God or anything other that's spiritual because that atheist is spiritual blind.
This is like proving color for someone who's blind.
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6) Atheist: I only believe in what I can see and touch.

Can you see, hear or touch your thoughts?
Can you see, hear or touch your intelligence?
Can you see, hear or touch your conciousness?

No, you don't. There are phenomenon in this world which cannot be perceived with our physical senses. That's just the way it is. Because you don't really believe you're thoughtless, unconcious and an IQ with a negative value? I thought so. That's all I have to say.
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7) God is spiritual and is proved with spiritual methods.

God is outside of the capabilites of science because God is spiritual and eternal and is not bound by time and matter as we are. He created a world accessable for scientific methods, but He is beyond it. This is not a weakness for a belief in Creation, just a limitation within science. The definition of science is gathering information by observing and experimenting, and from this make logical conclusions. God created a world which we can define by science. But He Himself cannot be defined in the same way. We can't see Him in a microscope or a telescope because he is outside of his Creation and by using material instruments to find Him is useless. God is not material, He's all through spiritual and God is therefor not a part of our scientific competency which only deals with the material part of reality.
Science is a method, formulated by man, to study the physical reality. There's absolutely NOTHING which says (more than your own pride) that there isn't anything beyond our physical reality.

MATERIAL phenomenon can only be proven by MATERIAL methods!
SPIRITUAL phenomenon can only be proven by SPIRITUAL methods!

God's existence can only be found in the spiritual dimension which means that all of the atheists attempts to find Him with material methods have all been in vain and will forever fail. God can be found in our hearts and He will never leave our hearts. But to see, hear, experience or feel Him in our hearts is only possible when your heart is completely pure and washed away from all your sins. You just need to humble yourself and be sincere, first then will you the proof come to you. You cannot find proof by using a binocular or measuringtape :D
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8) Logical proof of God.

Perfection in the Creation:

How can it be that everything is so perfect? Everything is just so balanced and it's just simply amazing. The human body is so complex that scientists can't even explain half of how it works. Many interactions in nature are hard to explain without a "Creator". The whole Creation shows that there must be some form of logic behind it all. For many people, the perfection of our planet and the universe is proof enough.

The quest for the meaning of life:

Humans always needs something to live for becuase it's not enough to just exist. For some reason we always seek some form of a meaning. It's like us humans lost our meaning of life and since then we try to find it again in some way. Someone can give us the meaning of life, this Someone has to be God. The need for a meaning of life is a clue or proof that God exists.

The innver void:

Sometimes we speak of an inner void in humans, something which is missing. There are surprisingly many people who feel like there's something missing. Why do we have that feeling of emptiness? This emptiness came when we decided not to have anything to do with God. When you seek God it's just like this emptiness is replaced with a meaning. It's the same for all believers in God and this is a clue or proof that God exists.

The personal experience of God:

You often hear believers say: "I've experienced God". So many people can witness about the presence of God that it simply cannot be made up. This presence of God is mutual for all believers and something like that would have been impossible if God was just a made up person. Faith is a conviction of things you do not see.
The whole universe just seems so perfectly calibrated to make life possible. For this to be the work of Mr. Coincidence a.k.a. Big Bang is something only dopey, foggy theorists believe in. Just take your eyes as en example. Each eye has 110 million pixels each. Only someone as brilliant as God can come up with that genius!
_____________________________________________________________​__

9) Einstein and Strindberg. Wise men!

"When I read the Bhagavad-Gita and reflect about how God created this universe everything else seems so superfluous." Albert Einstein

"It's just as illogical to believe in the world but deny God, as it is to believe in the shoe but deny the shoemaker" August Strindberg
_____________________________________________________________​___

What do you say folks? Hopefully this got you thinking a little bit. The Bible mentions how humans will behave during the end times. Humans will be lovers of themselves in the end times according to the Bible. Does that not fit with the world today? Go to any gym and you'll see a guy standing in front of a mirror looking at his muscles and his clean shaved, tanned body. Humans will also walk after their own lust. Surely our world today is lustful, more than ever. Never before in history have we seen a teenage girl walk into a club with tight clothes dancing in front of dirty sick people looking for any chance they get to have sex with her in the club's toilet. Sick world. We are living in the end times folks. Last chapters of revelations are coming true. It fits perfectly with how humans behave today, increase in natural disasters and tension between the strongest nations on Earth.


Well... this is all I had for now. God bless anyone who actually read this far! I'm sorry if there are any spelling or grammar errors. I'm only a 19 year old kid from Sweden and my English vocabulary is limited. The sentence structure might also be flawed here and there but it's really late here in Sweden and I wrote this pretty quickly.
I can go on and on how my life has changed since I found Jesus Christ when I was 17 years old but I think I will pass on that actually. Needless to say, my life changed for the better. No emptiness, no depression and no hate in my body. I just feel happy and pure, it's an awesome feeling! The free gift of salvation cannot do you any harm! Why not accept the gift Jesus Christ gave us when he sacrificed Himself for us? Don't know what to do? Read this website: [link to christianity.about.com]

That's basically all there is to it! You're saved. Your soul will be saved. But why stop there? Why not go out there and spread the word about Jesus Christ and the gift of salvation? Find out what His will is and do it! Live a great life, hate no one, fear no one, love thy Lord, read scriptures, talk to the Lord every day by praying and as mentioned, win souls to Christ!
_____________________________________________________________​______

Still confused? I recommend you check out my other thread about Brother Kent Hovind. His seminars are simply AMAZING! Words cannot describe how amazing it is. His seminars alone must have saved thousands and thousands of souls. Simply amazing.

Thread: Kent Hovind. Spread the word.
_____________________________________________________________​________
 Quoting: Vinyard




The problem is that any atheist will first ask whos God you speak and then point that you are using God to fill the gaps.
She just goes a little mad sometimes. We all go a little mad sometimes. Haven't you?
-Norman Bates

I think that rich people should live like poor people, and poor people should live like rich people, and change every week....
-Tupac Shakur

Somebody help me, tell me where to go from here cause even Thugs cry, but do the Lord care?
-Tupac Shakur

I don't have no fear of death. My only fear is coming back reincarnated.
-Tupac Shakur

I believe in human beings, and that all human beings should be respected as such, regardless of their color.
-Malcolm X

A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything.
-Malcolm X

When there’s no more room in Hell, the dead will walk the Earth.
-Dawn of the Dead

What an excellent day for an exorcism.
-The Exorcist
Anonymous Coward
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05/03/2012 09:37 PM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
All very interesting. I'm not an atheist, or follower of any man made religon. I do have many atheist friends and most of them are that way because of contradictions in religon. I find it only logical that there would be a supreme being/ consciousness, however, I firmly believe that nobody knows the "truth" as life is completely different to each individuals perception. There has always been one quote from Jesus that has always stood out in my mind. I'm sure someone here can easily reference the scripture, so ill roughly recall the part. Jesus and the disciples were walking through a field and one of them started whining about his hunger. Jesus replies to them in a parable as usual and says: the birds do not worry whether they will be fed or clothed for my father gives them all they need..........exactly, so stop worrying about things we can't fathom and have no control of. It's not our time.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
Let me be blunt. Who gives a fuck if they beleive in God. They are captain of their own ship. Your requirement is to plant the seed, it is up to God if He wants the seed to grow. Let them beleive what they want. Look at Madelyn Murray Ohare, look how she ended up. Can't say I am sad at all. I figured she got her just rewards.
Anonymous Coward
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05/03/2012 10:19 PM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
Thing is, don't mistake people who are appalled by religious bigotry as "god haters" and "atheists" is all.

How many genuine atheists actually post here, anyway?
Anonymous Coward
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
God doesnt believe in Atheists. Free Kent!
Anonymous Coward
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05/04/2012 08:03 AM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
Let me be blunt. Who gives a fuck if they beleive in God. They are captain of their own ship. Your requirement is to plant the seed, it is up to God if He wants the seed to grow. Let them beleive what they want. Look at Madelyn Murray Ohare, look how she ended up. Can't say I am sad at all. I figured she got her just rewards.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14661352


As I said in the first post I don't have any problems with atheists and they are free to believe in whatever they want because we all have a free will. But I guess I do care a little because otherwise I wouldn't post this right? I just feel obligated to share this with you GLPers because I just had to get this out of my chest. I hope I did not offend anyone. I just feel like I'm doing my duty as a Christian to spread the message about salvation and I know many people here find it annoying to see so many threads/posts about salvation and Jesus but this time I actually took my time to write something original =)
Vinyard (OP)

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05/04/2012 08:06 AM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
As I said in the first post I don't have any problems with atheists and they are free to believe in whatever they want because we all have a free will. But I guess I do care a little because otherwise I wouldn't post this right? I just feel obligated to share this with you GLPers because I just had to get this out of my chest. I hope I did not offend anyone. I just feel like I'm doing my duty as a Christian to spread the message about salvation and I know many people here find it annoying to see so many threads/posts about salvation and Jesus but this time I actually took my time to write something original =)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15511968


This is me by the way, the OP. Forgot to log in :D

Last Edited by Marlo Stanfield on 05/04/2012 08:06 AM
Anonymous Coward
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05/04/2012 08:14 AM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
Atheists and agnostics are the pure product of the last 2000 years.

............


Anonymous Coward
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
Friend this thread ...just confirms the bipolar nature of universal reality. Not that it matters or changes how each bipolar humans choose to find, loose, confuse and delude themselves, about both their own lives and mortality and existence.

It amazes me that all our hierarchal doctrines and elitist delusion all claim the same assumption ..that we humans are somehow very important and special things and righteous in some way above everything (except our own corrupt and created hierarchies of course..religion being one of many)

Basically friend ...what we think and do here does not actually matter in the slighted (except of course to us and our lives now). Bipolar Infinity does not have any conscience or require an u;timate designer creator figure or hierarchal leaders and or polar oppositions..these are all delusional human constructs

How can it be that the universe is full of bipolar energy and matter and completely unstable and always cyclically changing (yet according to religious texts and folks was solely created by a polar singularity (all positve, good and loving) called god?...isn't that a contradiction and theorectically impossible ..or is god actually bipolar too?
also strangely come the rules of engagement..iet strangely this god does not comply to the same rules and commandments or morales ..hmmm very interesting

Have you ever considered that your god and devil thingy's are simply the polarised extremes of the self same energy..that we now called bipolar electricity? cos it can bring light and life and ironnically destroy and kill too!

Now tell me friend...do you think electricity really has a soul or even conscience to think, feel or reflect about it's positive and negative actions and interaction..if No then why do you create a religion and institional hierarchal system that claims you need to serve and pray to it for some form of salvation?

Secondlt religion use the world eternal for heaven and hell therefore bipolar reality of good and bad is eternal then. God and the devil can't neutralise eachother..it's that confirmation of bipolar reality too..therefore both ways confirm that all energy, matter and life (i.e. the evolving expressions of these positive and negative forces) are infinite bipolar and get re-used and recycle..but I think without any purpose or meaning or agenda..as I said before these are all human rationales and contructs..Not universal constructs.

Anyway it really doen't matter friend and I think you have right to believe and delude yourself to whatever makes you happy..but truth that's another matter entirely, which humans are not geared to see or accept. This thread and my response only confirms this point
 Quoting: humanitech 15457898


Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't. Mark Twain.
KlLLUMINATI

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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
Atheists and agnostics are the pure product of the last 2000 years.

............



 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15506746


the first example of atheism was around 1500bce......hinduism was not accepted by everyone

Last Edited by KlLLUMINATI on 05/04/2012 08:20 AM
She just goes a little mad sometimes. We all go a little mad sometimes. Haven't you?
-Norman Bates

I think that rich people should live like poor people, and poor people should live like rich people, and change every week....
-Tupac Shakur

Somebody help me, tell me where to go from here cause even Thugs cry, but do the Lord care?
-Tupac Shakur

I don't have no fear of death. My only fear is coming back reincarnated.
-Tupac Shakur

I believe in human beings, and that all human beings should be respected as such, regardless of their color.
-Malcolm X

A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything.
-Malcolm X

When there’s no more room in Hell, the dead will walk the Earth.
-Dawn of the Dead

What an excellent day for an exorcism.
-The Exorcist
Vinyard (OP)

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05/04/2012 12:32 PM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
It's nice to see mature responses for once but I would love to hear a few replies from some atheists and what your opinion is about this. I do make a few good points in my first post right?
KlLLUMINATI

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05/04/2012 12:36 PM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
It's nice to see mature responses for once but I would love to hear a few replies from some atheists and what your opinion is about this. I do make a few good points in my first post right?
 Quoting: Vinyard



i recommend using

[link to www.debate.org]
She just goes a little mad sometimes. We all go a little mad sometimes. Haven't you?
-Norman Bates

I think that rich people should live like poor people, and poor people should live like rich people, and change every week....
-Tupac Shakur

Somebody help me, tell me where to go from here cause even Thugs cry, but do the Lord care?
-Tupac Shakur

I don't have no fear of death. My only fear is coming back reincarnated.
-Tupac Shakur

I believe in human beings, and that all human beings should be respected as such, regardless of their color.
-Malcolm X

A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything.
-Malcolm X

When there’s no more room in Hell, the dead will walk the Earth.
-Dawn of the Dead

What an excellent day for an exorcism.
-The Exorcist
snarky74

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05/04/2012 12:38 PM

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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
#7 is a key point and what I consider the ultimate atheist copout.

They try to use natural 'scientific' means to explain the supernatural, when we fully know they never can. Only the supernatural can explain the supernatural.

This is a great summary. And regardless of what others may say I have been to 'reason' seminars and these are extremely typical of atheists and their arguments. ESPECIALLY at the universities.

Last Edited by snarky74 on 05/04/2012 12:39 PM
Married, kids, etc.
Vinyard (OP)

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05/04/2012 02:26 PM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
#7 is a key point and what I consider the ultimate atheist copout.

They try to use natural 'scientific' means to explain the supernatural, when we fully know they never can. Only the supernatural can explain the supernatural.

This is a great summary. And regardless of what others may say I have been to 'reason' seminars and these are extremely typical of atheists and their arguments. ESPECIALLY at the universities.
 Quoting: snarky74


Thanks mate! hf
Once4All
The Truth Is Clear To Everyone!

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05/04/2012 08:47 PM

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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
Reading...


hf
John 11:35 Jesus wept.

[link to www.savemenowjesus.com]

Have you given good points today?

EVERYONE who calls upon the LORD JESUS will be saved! [Romans 10:13]


Jesus Christ will return as King of all kings and Lord of all lords. hf
Once4All
The Truth Is Clear To Everyone!

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05/04/2012 08:59 PM

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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
WoW... this is truly awesome work!


Thanks for the wonderful reading.



hf
John 11:35 Jesus wept.

[link to www.savemenowjesus.com]

Have you given good points today?

EVERYONE who calls upon the LORD JESUS will be saved! [Romans 10:13]


Jesus Christ will return as King of all kings and Lord of all lords. hf
KlLLUMINATI

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05/04/2012 09:13 PM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
Before I start off I would like to mention a few things. This is not a hate thread and it's not my intention to start a big fight between Christians and atheists. I hope we can keep this thread peaceful and mature. If you want to express your opinion and start a discussion that's fine, as long as it doesn't go out of control. Remember, keep it civilized and mature. If you, while reading this post, get the impression that I mock atheists or being disrespectful to them, forgive me if it comes off like that. It is not my intention to hate anyone or to be disrespectful. I hope this thread will generate dozens of pages filled with interesting posts. Also, it would mean a lot to me if you read this entire post. I just don't like when people post something and they haven't read anything. They see a Christian making a thread and they instantly post "retarded Christian!" or other immature stuff. As I said, it would mean the world to me if you read this entire post. I just feel like this is a very important thread for me to make and as a Christian I feel obligated to spread this message. Don't look at this thread as "...another Bible thumping thread" because it is not, although a few Bible quotes are inevitable to appear from time to time. :D

Alright, I got that out of my chest. Let us begin! What exactly defines atheism? Atheism really is nothing. Many people see atheism as logical and critical thinking and other people see atheism as a way of living by your own rules and to seek yourself. The general definition is simply; "not believing in a God". This is what atheists believe, right? That's alright with me. You have a free mind and you get to choose whatever you want to believe in. I have no problem with that. However, I tend to disagree with some of the things atheists say and this thread is simply to answer some arguments atheists frequently use as a way to "disprove" God. If you disagree with me on the stuff I'm about to write feel free to start a discussion. (Remember... civilized!)

_____________________________________________________________​__

CONTENTS:

1) Atheist: Who created God?

2) Atheist: God does not exist?

3) Atheist: The existence of God is illogical!

4) Atheist: Can God create a rock...

5) Atheist: Prove God!

6) Atheist: I only believe in what I can see and touch.

7) God is spiritual and is proved with spiritual methods.

8) Logical proof of God.

9) Einstein and Strindberg. Wise men!
_____________________________________________________________​_


1) Atheist: Who created God?

I hear this argument all the time! Atheist use this argument frequently to disprove the existence of God. I understand the argument, I do, but there are many flaws. First of all, the question "who created God?" ASSUMES that God is limited. It assumes that God has a beginning and will therefor have an end. But the God of the Bible doesn't have a limit, He doesn't have a beginning and an end. God was never created because He does not consist of the unaware created matter, but by the aware eternal spiritual energy. Besides, God can't have been created by someone else, because God by definition is FIRST, the reason of all cause! God was first. How on Earth's name can the first one be created? That's like asking "what letter comes before A?".

THE CREATER COULD NOT HAVE BEEN CREATED BECAUSE IN THAT CASE HE WOULDN'T BE THE CREATOR!

God is outside of His Creation. He is outside of our universe. God created time, space and matter and God is OUTSIDE of all that. There is no time where God is, only eternity. God simply just is. He hasn't been created. And strangely enough, the atheist never ask themself the same question about Big Bang. Where did Big Bang come from? Big Bang, according to the text books, created everything in the universe. It therefor created time, space and matter as well. Which came first? Without space, where do you put matter? Without time, WHEN do you put matter? You see how time, space and matter must have been created at the EXACT same time? Big Bang teaches us that everything created itself out of absolutely nothing. Let me ask you this. How did Big Bang explode? Where did the energy for this explosion come from? Out of nowhere? Where did time, space and matter come from? Out of nowhere? For some reason, people really believe Big Bang occured. People seriously believe that everything in existence created itself out of absolutely nothing.

The universe must have an original cause!
There has to be a first original cause otherwise the universe wouldn't exist. Matter can't be the first cause becase life, awareness and intelligence can simply not plop out of lifeless matter. Matter cannot have created itself. To believe that matter is the original cause of the universe is the same as believing that mud is the cause of the crock. By practical experience every human knows that there's NOTHING which can create itself out of nothing. Mud had a creator. Believing that something can create itself is a stupid fable and only narrow minded atheists will believe that. (Sorry for being a tad harsh but it's true)

Not believing in an original first cause which created our universe is as stupid as believing that everything we see around us came out of nothingness.
God is in His original spiritual shape forever in the spiritual world, in God's kingdom, which was never created and will never be gone. Humans are just by nature greedy and full of pride. We want to be God's ourselves, we want to follow our own rules. The suffering in this world is a wake up call for all of us to realize that we do not belong here in this world full of evil of pain.
_____________________________________________________________​___

2) Atheist: God does not exist!

That is a definite assumption, an absolute. Only someone who's all knowing can come with definite assumptions like that. Are you all knowing? By saying something like that you sure make it seem like that. In that case, you're God! Because you know EVERYTHING there is!
But no man knows everything, we know very little in ratio to what there is to know. But let's just assume for one moment that you know 50% of everything. That's a lot of knowledge. What if God exists on the other side, the other 50%?
_____________________________________________________________​___

3) Atheist: The existence of God is illogical.

If you think that it's illogical for God to exist, did you ever stop to think the same thing about yourself? Do you think it's logial for you to exist? Why is your own existence more logial than God's? To believe that our own existence came about without an existing cause is the same as believing that sunrays can exist without the sun.
_____________________________________________________________​___

4) Atheist: Can God create a rock so heavy He cannot lift it Himself? And if he can't lift it, he's not almighty.

God is so almighty that He can expand Himself in two seperate shapes in which he lifts the rock in one, and does not lift the rock in the other shape. Besides, God is infinitely strong so it's a piece of cake for Him to lift a rock which is infinitely heavy.
If I would ask you to draw a square triangle what would you do? Would you take out your pencil and draw one? No you wouldn't because you know that a triangle per definition has three sides, not four. To draw a "square triangle" says nothing about your ability to draw triangles (or squares) because a "square triangle" is simply a nonsense expression I made up by puttin two words together. A rock so heavy no one can lift it is the same nonsense expression because a rock is per definition an object with a weight and can always be lifted assuming you're strong enough. To talk about a "rock to heavy for anyone to lift" is just as much nonsense as a square triangle. The "argument" is not a proper argument against God or his Almightyness, it's just a game with words. It's a logical contradiction, which is indeed pretty funny, but it does not hold up as an argument.
_____________________________________________________________​___

5) Atheist: Prove God!

Atheists always demand God to appear Himself in front of their eyes before they will start believing. This is simply pride and God does not answer prideful challenges just as much as the President of USA would pay you a visit without you giving him any worthy qualifications which caught his attention. Ask yourself this: Do you, as an atheist, deserve to have a personal visit by the Almighty? What are your qualifications? When you can't even get the President of USA to pay you a visit, what makes you think God would appear in His all Greatness in front of your very eyes? It's the opposite. Atheists despise God, they spit on Him and do not want to get rid of their illusion that God does not exist. They want it to stay that way and because God does not interfere with the free will, the atheist will never feel the presence of God until he change his attitude. For the atheist, God will prove His existence when it's too late, when you're dead.
You cannot *see* God until you *realize*. Remember that. You must realize that God is essential and that His existence is the foundation of everything that is. First *realize* then *see*. If you cannot realize that the existence of God is essential for the universe to exist, how can we ever prove to such a blind person the existence of God when he doesn't have a clue about God's spiritual nature, looks and personality. You can never prove or convince an atheist about God or anything other that's spiritual because that atheist is spiritual blind.
This is like proving a color for someone who's blind.
_____________________________________________________________​_______

6) Atheist: I only believe in what I can see and touch.

Can you see, hear or touch your thoughts?
Can you see, hear or touch your intelligence?
Can you see, hear or touch your conciousness?

No, you can't. There are phenomenon in this world which cannot be perceived with our physical senses. That's just the way it is. Because you don't really believe you're thoughtless, without a concious and an IQ with a negative value? I thought so. That's all I have to say. :D
_____________________________________________________________​________

7) God is spiritual and is proved with spiritual methods.

God is outside of the capabilites of science because God is spiritual and eternal and is not bound by time and matter as we are. He created a world accessable for scientific methods, but He is beyond it. This is not a weakness for a belief in Creation, just a limitation within science. The definition of science is gathering information by observing and experimenting, and from this make logical conclusions. God created a world which we can define by science. But He Himself cannot be defined in the same way. We can't see Him in a microscope or a telescope because He is outside of His Creation and by using material instruments to find Him is useless. God is not material, He's spiritual all through and God is therefor not a part of our scientific competency which only deals with the material part of reality.
Science is a method, formulated by man, to study the physical reality. There's absolutely NOTHING which says (more than your own pride) that there isn't anything beyond our physical reality.

MATERIAL phenomenon can only be proven by MATERIAL methods!
SPIRITUAL phenomenon can only be proven by SPIRITUAL methods!

God's existence can only be found in the spiritual dimension which means that all of the atheists attempts to find Him with material methods have all been in vain and will forever fail. God can be found in our hearts and He will never leave our hearts. But to see, hear, experience or feel Him in our hearts is only possible when your heart is completely pure and washed away from all your sins. You just need to humble yourself and be sincere, first then will the proof come to you. You cannot find proof by using a binocular or measuringtape :D
_____________________________________________________________​_____________

8) Logical proof of God.

Perfection in the Creation:

How can it be that everything is so perfect? Everything is just so balanced and it's just simply amazing. The human body is so complex that scientists can't even explain half of how it works. Many interactions in nature are hard to explain without a "Creator". The whole Creation shows that there must be some form of logic behind it all. For many people, the perfection of our planet and the universe is proof enough.

The quest for the meaning of life:

Humans always needs something to live for because it's not enough to just exist. For some reason we always seek some form of a meaning. It's like we lost our meaning of life and since then we try to find it again in a way or another. Someone can give us the meaning of life, this Someone has to be God. The need for a meaning of life is a clue or proof that God exists.

The innver void:

Sometimes we speak of an inner void in humans, something which is missing. There are surprisingly many people who feel like there's something missing. Why do we have that feeling of emptiness? This emptiness came when we decided not to have anything to do with God. When you seek God it's just like this emptiness is replaced with a meaning. It's the same for all believers in God and this is a clue or proof that God exists.

The personal experience of God:

You often hear believers say: "I've experienced God". So many people can witness about the presence of God that it simply cannot be made up. This presence of God is mutual for all believers and something like that would have been impossible if God was just a made up person. Faith is a conviction of things you do not see.
The whole universe just seems so perfectly calibrated to make life possible. For this to be the work of Mr. Coincidence a.k.a. Big Bang is something only dopey, foggy theorists believe in. Just take your eyes as an example. Each eye has 110 million pixels each. Only someone as brilliant as God can come up with something that genius!
_____________________________________________________________​__

9) Einstein and Strindberg. Wise men!

"When I read the Bhagavad-Gita and reflect about how God created this universe everything else seems so superfluous." Albert Einstein

"It's just as illogical to believe in the world but deny God, as it is to believe in the shoe but deny the shoemaker" August Strindberg
_____________________________________________________________​___

What do you say folks? Hopefully this got you thinking a little bit. The Bible mentions how humans will behave during the end times. Humans will be lovers of themselves in the end times according to the Bible. Does that not fit the world today? Go to any gym and you'll see a guy standing in front of a mirror looking at his muscles and his clean shaved, tanned body. Humans will also walk after their own lust. Surely our world today is lustful, more than ever. We are living in the end times folks. Last chapters of revelations are coming true. The human behaviour today fits perfectly with end times scripture. Also, natural disasters have increased alot the past 100 years! A lot! There's also a lot of tensions between many of the strongest nations on Earth and the Bible says that there will be rumors of wars (WW3). And the past 100 years we've seen a huge increase in technology and the Bible mentions a period in human history where this would happen!

Well... this is all I had for now. God bless anyone who actually read this far! I'm sorry if there are any spelling or grammar mistakes. I'm only a 19 year old kid from Sweden so my English vocabulary is limited. The sentence structure might also be flawed here and there but it's really late here in Sweden and I wrote this pretty quickly.
I can go on and on how my life has changed since I found Jesus Christ when I was about 17 years old, but I think I will pass on that actually. Needless to say, my life changed for the better. No emptiness, no depression and no hate in my body. I just feel happy and pure, it's an awesome feeling! The free gift of salvation cannot do you any harm! Why not accept the gift Jesus Christ gave us when he sacrificed Himself for us? Don't know what to do? Read this website: [link to christianity.about.com]

If you do what the link above says, and you're sincere about it then you're saved. Your soul is not damned any longer. But why stop there? Why not go out there and spread the word about Jesus Christ and the gift of salvation? Find out what His will is and do it! Live a great life, hate no one, fear no one, love thy Lord, read scriptures, talk to the Lord every day by praying and as mentioned, win souls to Christ!
_____________________________________________________________​______

Still not sure what to make of all this? I recommend you check out my other thread about Kent Hovind. His seminars are simply AMAZING! Words cannot describe how amazing they are. His seminars alone must have saved thousands and thousands of souls. Simply amazing.

Thread: Kent Hovind. Spread the word.
_____________________________________________________________​________
 Quoting: Vinyard


Transcript from my last debate

Argument from design:

My opponent stated "Argument from design this is largely unfalsifiable..."

There is belief that intelligent design is unscientific because it is unfalsifiable or untestable and no empirical evidence can count against it. This is false. Of course theres no way to falsify a assertion that a cosmic designer exists. This much we can agree on. But contemporary design arguments focus not on such vague claims, but on detectible evidence for design in the natural world. Therefore the design arguments currently in use are falsifiable. Consider the argument that Michael Behe makes in his book Darwins Black Box(great read btw). He proposes that design is detectable in many molecular machines,including bacterial flagellum for example. Behe argues that this tiny motor needs all its parts to function it is irreducibly complex. Such systems in our experience are a hallmark of designed systems, because they require the foresight that is the exclusive to intelligent agents. Darwin's mechanism of natural selection and random variations, in contrast, requires a functional system at each transition along the way. Natural selection can select for present but not for future function. Notice that Behe's argument rests not on ignorance, but on what we know about designed systems the powers of intelligent agents, and on our growing knowledge of the cellular world and its many mechanisms. How does one test and discredit Behe's argument? Describe a realistic continuously functional Darwinian pathway from simple ancestor to present motor. Darwinists like Kenneth Miller points to the hope of future discoveries, and to the type secretory system as a machine possibly co-opted on the evolutionary path to the flagellum. The argument is riddled with problems, but it shows that Miller, at least, understands perfectly well that Behes argument is testable. Similarly there are websites filled with supposed refutations of contemporary design arguments, many written by scientists using information from the natural world to make their arguments. An argument cant be both open to falsifiability and unfalsifiable at the same time. So contemporary arguments for intelligent design in both biology and the physical sciences are not only testable theyre falsifiable. Therefore, honest commentators should stop claiming that ID is unfalsifiable. The claim itself is falsifiable, and it has been falsified. Its time to move on to other and more pertinent aspects of the debate over intelligent design because this one clearly is no longer valid.

My opponent stated "....A puddle(universe) is not made to contain the water(people)volume of the shape of the puddle, but rather the water fills the puddle." That may be true but the puddle was created/made was it not ?

Science ultimately cannot explain the universes beginnings because it cannot go that far back. Science can only explain what is here now and even that is speculative since we cannot repeat the experiment. We should start with the most basic and general explanation. All design implies a designer this is 100% true all the time. Is it not ?

I would like our audience to ask yourselves which/what is more rational in any aspect of life.

A. Every aspect of your life just exist no rhyme no reason your family your kids the air you breath the water you drink the sun on your face all just happened to be.

or

B. Every aspect of your life was designed to connect us to each other in a specific order that could only be explained by intelligent design.

We will touch on this a little later in this debate.

Morality:

Are we inherently good or evil? Psychologists have some idea of whether or not we are inherently good or bad. Researchers presented four scenarios to 100 babies using puppets. After watching puppets act negatively or positively towards other characters the babies were shown puppets either giving or taking toys from these "good" or "bad" puppets. When prompted to choose their favorite characters babies preferred puppets that were "good" over the "bad" characters. The study shows that babies are born with morality and a strong moral sense. This also shows we are not blank slates at birth. These findings about babies moral notions tell us about adult morality. Some scholars think that the very existence of a moral sense has profound implications. In 1869, Alfred Russel Wallace, who along with Darwin discovered natural selection, wrote that certain human capacities including the higher moral faculties are richer than what you could expect from a product of biological evolution. He concluded that some sort of godly force must intervene to create these capacities.

In his book "Whats So Great About Christianity, the social and cultural critic Dinesh DSouza revived this argument. He conceded that evolution can explain our niceness in instances like kindness to kin, where the niceness has a clear genetic payoff but he drew the line at high altruism, acts of entirely disinterested kindness. For DSouza "there is no Darwinian rationale for why you would give up your seat for an old lady on a bus, an act of nice-guyness that does nothing for your genes. And what about those who donate blood to strangers or sacrifice their lives for a worthy cause? DSouza reasoned that these stirrings of conscience are best explained not by evolution or psychology but by the voice of God within our souls. This does not prove that God exist what it does prove however is that we are born with objective morality.

The universe:

The first cause argument is an argument from the mere fact that a temporal universe exists to the existence of an eternal creator of it. The argument from design as shown above takes a much more detailed look at the universe in search of evidence for God’s existence. That being said we now know that the universe is expanding which points to it having a beginning. But how do we know the universe is expanding? By spotting an exploding star in a distant galaxy, or even measuring the expansion of space-time itself.

*PLEASE VIEW PHOTOS BELOW*

[link to news.discovery.com...]

So we now know that:

1.Everything which has a beginning has a cause.
2.The universe has a beginning.
3.Therefore the universe has a cause.

Some atheist claim that all this analysis is tentative, because that is the nature of science. So this can’t be used to prove creation by God. Of course, atheist can’t have it both ways: saying that the Bible is wrong because science has proved it so, but if science appears consistent with the Bible, then well, science is tentative anyway.

I look forward to my opponents refutation...........
She just goes a little mad sometimes. We all go a little mad sometimes. Haven't you?
-Norman Bates

I think that rich people should live like poor people, and poor people should live like rich people, and change every week....
-Tupac Shakur

Somebody help me, tell me where to go from here cause even Thugs cry, but do the Lord care?
-Tupac Shakur

I don't have no fear of death. My only fear is coming back reincarnated.
-Tupac Shakur

I believe in human beings, and that all human beings should be respected as such, regardless of their color.
-Malcolm X

A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything.
-Malcolm X

When there’s no more room in Hell, the dead will walk the Earth.
-Dawn of the Dead

What an excellent day for an exorcism.
-The Exorcist
Anonymous Coward
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05/04/2012 09:41 PM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
I think most Christians are delving too deeply into the why's of Atheism.

Have you ever thought that it might be as simple as this:
:tp123:

With as many "illogical" assumptions as are made here about Atheists, I wonder why Christian's feel so threatened?

Do you not understand that Atheists could list just as many questions regarding why Christian's would believe?

I honestly think it's time that both groups move on and find better subjects to ponder.

Neither side is going to convince the other of their rightness so let's agree to disagree.

I belong to neither side but I do think that tolerance is in order for all beliefs.

If you want respect you must give it.

I think the best way we can all come to an understanding is to stop posting these anti christian anti atheist anti etc threads.

Also if you are Christian do not come to another's thread and start shoving your belief down their throats when you knew from the title that the thread wasn't for you.

Also Atheists and other groups do not go to a Christian only thread to start shit either.

I have done it myself for my own reasons but honestly where does it get us?

I'm not going to convert a Christian against their beliefs and they are not going to convert me either.

:lkjhgcvj:
Anonymous Coward
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05/04/2012 09:47 PM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
Friend this thread ...just confirms the bipolar nature of universal reality. Not that it matters or changes how each bipolar humans choose to find, loose, confuse and delude themselves, about both their own lives and mortality and existence.

It amazes me that all our hierarchal doctrines and elitist delusion all claim the same assumption ..that we humans are somehow very important and special things and righteous in some way above everything (except our own corrupt and created hierarchies of course..religion being one of many)

Basically friend ...what we think and do here does not actually matter in the slighted (except of course to us and our lives now). Bipolar Infinity does not have any conscience or require an u;timate designer creator figure or hierarchal leaders and or polar oppositions..these are all delusional human constructs

How can it be that the universe is full of bipolar energy and matter and completely unstable and always cyclically changing (yet according to religious texts and folks was solely created by a polar singularity (all positve, good and loving) called god?...isn't that a contradiction and theorectically impossible ..or is god actually bipolar too?
also strangely come the rules of engagement..iet strangely this god does not comply to the same rules and commandments or morales ..hmmm very interesting

Have you ever considered that your god and devil thingy's are simply the polarised extremes of the self same energy..that we now called bipolar electricity? cos it can bring light and life and ironnically destroy and kill too!

Now tell me friend...do you think electricity really has a soul or even conscience to think, feel or reflect about it's positive and negative actions and interaction..if No then why do you create a religion and institional hierarchal system that claims you need to serve and pray to it for some form of salvation?

Secondlt religion use the world eternal for heaven and hell therefore bipolar reality of good and bad is eternal then. God and the devil can't neutralise eachother..it's that confirmation of bipolar reality too..therefore both ways confirm that all energy, matter and life (i.e. the evolving expressions of these positive and negative forces) are infinite bipolar and get re-used and recycle..but I think without any purpose or meaning or agenda..as I said before these are all human rationales and contructs..Not universal constructs.

Anyway it really doen't matter friend and I think you have right to believe and delude yourself to whatever makes you happy..but truth that's another matter entirely, which humans are not geared to see or accept. This thread and my response only confirms this point
 Quoting: humanitech 15457898


You have not answered his questions, FRIEND.
KlLLUMINATI

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05/04/2012 10:10 PM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
I think most Christians are delving too deeply into the why's of Atheism.

Have you ever thought that it might be as simple as this:
:tp123:

With as many "illogical" assumptions as are made here about Atheists, I wonder why Christian's feel so threatened?

Do you not understand that Atheists could list just as many questions regarding why Christian's would believe?

I honestly think it's time that both groups move on and find better subjects to ponder.

Neither side is going to convince the other of their rightness so let's agree to disagree.

I belong to neither side but I do think that tolerance is in order for all beliefs.

If you want respect you must give it.

I think the best way we can all come to an understanding is to stop posting these anti christian anti atheist anti etc threads.

Also if you are Christian do not come to another's thread and start shoving your belief down their throats when you knew from the title that the thread wasn't for you.

Also Atheists and other groups do not go to a Christian only thread to start shit either.

I have done it myself for my own reasons but honestly where does it get us?

I'm not going to convert a Christian against their beliefs and they are not going to convert me either.

:lkjhgcvj:
 Quoting: Awake but dreaming


I would say 99% of atheist I debate are very respectful its a very small amount that are not
She just goes a little mad sometimes. We all go a little mad sometimes. Haven't you?
-Norman Bates

I think that rich people should live like poor people, and poor people should live like rich people, and change every week....
-Tupac Shakur

Somebody help me, tell me where to go from here cause even Thugs cry, but do the Lord care?
-Tupac Shakur

I don't have no fear of death. My only fear is coming back reincarnated.
-Tupac Shakur

I believe in human beings, and that all human beings should be respected as such, regardless of their color.
-Malcolm X

A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything.
-Malcolm X

When there’s no more room in Hell, the dead will walk the Earth.
-Dawn of the Dead

What an excellent day for an exorcism.
-The Exorcist
overmind

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05/04/2012 10:54 PM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
The fourth question was kind of retarded. I'm surprised you actually tried answering it. Such pointless hypotheticals need to be ignored. If God can create a near-infinite sized universe (that works rather well), you can logically deduce that He can create a near-infinite sized rock (with relative near-infinite mass). Of course, that doesn't mean He would because there is no point. But the word "lifting" is incredibly careless (there is no specific up nor down in space). The correct word would be "move". But even if the near-infinite rock is moved, there is nothing else in relation to it in space since God is not present on the physical plane. So in a sense it wouldn't go anywhere. One should understand this all rather quickly, so it is obvious that this question is simply used to amuse the one who asks it (unless the person isn't very bright).

Last Edited by overmind on 05/04/2012 10:58 PM
Anonymous Coward
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
Still not sure what to make of all this? I recommend you check out my other thread about Kent Hovind. His seminars are simply AMAZING! Words cannot describe how amazing they are. His seminars alone must have duped thousands and thousands of fools. Simply amazing.

 Quoting: Vinyard


fixed
KlLLUMINATI

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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
The fourth question was kind of retarded. I'm surprised you actually tried answering it. Such pointless hypotheticals need to be ignored. If God can create a near-infinite sized universe (that works rather well), you can logically deduce that He can create a near-infinite sized rock (with relative near-infinite mass). Of course, that doesn't mean He would because there is no point. But the word "lifting" is incredibly careless (there is no specific up nor down in space). The correct word would be "move". But even if the near-infinite rock is moved, there is nothing else in relation to it in space since God is not present on the physical plane. So in a sense it wouldn't go anywhere. One should understand this all rather quickly, so it is obvious that this question is simply used to amuse the one who asks it (unless the person isn't very bright).
 Quoting: overmind


Omnipotence does not include the ability to do things that are by definition impossible. Neither does omnipotence include the ability to fail. By defining omnipotence as requiring one to have the ability to fail, atheists have defined omnipotence as being impossible. Of course an omnipotent God would never fail.

These kinds of arguments are clearly illogical and even silly although they are commonly used by inexperienced atheists. Most intelligent atheists have dropped these kinds of arguments long ago.
She just goes a little mad sometimes. We all go a little mad sometimes. Haven't you?
-Norman Bates

I think that rich people should live like poor people, and poor people should live like rich people, and change every week....
-Tupac Shakur

Somebody help me, tell me where to go from here cause even Thugs cry, but do the Lord care?
-Tupac Shakur

I don't have no fear of death. My only fear is coming back reincarnated.
-Tupac Shakur

I believe in human beings, and that all human beings should be respected as such, regardless of their color.
-Malcolm X

A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything.
-Malcolm X

When there’s no more room in Hell, the dead will walk the Earth.
-Dawn of the Dead

What an excellent day for an exorcism.
-The Exorcist
Miggy
Ever yours. Ever mine. Ever ours.

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05/04/2012 11:45 PM

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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
All very interesting. I'm not an atheist, or follower of any man made religon. I do have many atheist friends and most of them are that way because of contradictions in religon. I find it only logical that there would be a supreme being/ consciousness, however, I firmly believe that nobody knows the "truth" as life is completely different to each individuals perception. There has always been one quote from Jesus that has always stood out in my mind. I'm sure someone here can easily reference the scripture, so ill roughly recall the part. Jesus and the disciples were walking through a field and one of them started whining about his hunger. Jesus replies to them in a parable as usual and says: the birds do not worry whether they will be fed or clothed for my father gives them all they need..........exactly, so stop worrying about things we can't fathom and have no control of. It's not our time.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6639985


A/C-

I was always awarer of that verse in the bible but until I watched a movie where that scene is rein-acted I never thought about it much.

But MAN! Did it have an affect on the way I live daily.

The speech comes from the Beatitudes (more commonly known as the Sermon on the Mount) and on You Tube you can watch the entire movie. It is called the Gospel According to Matthew and is one of the the 4 Gospels re-inacted. I like John the best.

But for your convenience I'm just going to post the 10 minute clip in which Christ mentions that verse. It gives me goose bumps- I guess because it is so accurate and comforting.

It's kind of the Jesus' day equivalent of the song, 'Don't Worry! Be happy!".


Your reference begins at the 0:26 mark. On the lower right hand screen of the movie the numbers that appear are the exact chapter and verse being portrayed at that moment.





"Matthew 6:25-30

New Living Translation (NLT)

25 “That is why I tell you not to worry about everyday life—whether you have enough food and drink, or enough clothes to wear. Isn’t life more than food, and your body more than clothing? 26 Look at the birds. They don’t plant or harvest or store food in barns, for your heavenly Father feeds them. And aren’t you far more valuable to him than they are? 27 Can all your worries add a single moment to your life?

28 “And why worry about your clothing? Look at the lilies of the field and how they grow. They don’t work or make their clothing, 29 yet Solomon in all his glory was not dressed as beautifully as they are. 30 And if God cares so wonderfully for wildflowers that are here today and thrown into the fire tomorrow, he will certainly care for you. Why do you have so little faith?"

Great thread, OP.

Miggy
Be Still and know that I am God.
-Psalms 46:10
Miggy
Ever yours. Ever mine. Ever ours.

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05/04/2012 11:51 PM

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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
#7 is a key point and what I consider the ultimate atheist copout.

They try to use natural 'scientific' means to explain the supernatural, when we fully know they never can. Only the supernatural can explain the supernatural.

This is a great summary. And regardless of what others may say I have been to 'reason' seminars and these are extremely typical of atheists and their arguments. ESPECIALLY at the universities.
 Quoting: snarky74


Hi, Snarky.

Most atheists I know are very intelligent people so I never understood argument number 6: If you can't see it or touch it, it doesn't exist.

Now I'm no rocket scientist but I know enough that if I stop breathing the un-see-able "air" for a couple of minutes I'll be dead.

Good seein' ya.

hf

Miggy

Last Edited by Miggy on 05/04/2012 11:52 PM
Be Still and know that I am God.
-Psalms 46:10
Anonymous Coward
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
( I would also like to make the statement I am more of a spiritual agnostic if that makes sense or Taoist if you will
first of all you are making a few composite fallacies .


1. The first point of "who created god" is a response to the first cause argument and or Kamal cosmology . The first cause argument is attempting to use logic to prove god through the laws of cause and effect. Therefor it must open itself up to logic's criticism . If you are are attempting to prove God this way it is more than a valid question to ask what caused God.


2. You are right that is an assumption . But have never or would never see this as a logical argument from an atheist point of view so it is rather nontopical to a reason based discussion .

3. I have never seen this argument. I think you are once again making a transitional fallacy. An atheist would say one can not prove logically god exists as a response to christian apologetic philosophers . In itself a completely different statement

4. I have never seen this question in any atheist writing and it makes little sense. It is something a 5 year old would ask. Is attempting to prove fallacy but there are so many more worthwhile ways to do this . Hard to know if you are serious with this one .


5. wrong an Atheist has never said prove god as an argument only as a response when a religious philosopher enters in a logic based debate . And it would be " prove God by logic " since that is what you are here to do. Once again taken out of context and transitional



6. This argument does not exist from any Atheist Philosopher I know of , please provide a source


7. this is just ridiculous when dealing with a logic based discussion need I say why . Faith and belief are interchangeable words. So to say my belief is based on immaterial faith is like saying I belief based on belief


ok now onto your logic priori

1. this is called the teleological argument in effect, although you are presenting a rather simple muddled-down version of it . but you are not preventing a thorough enough version to even derive attempted logical proof, it is incomplete and is a "begging the question " fallacy . read up on teleological arguments and try again then I will respond. or "intelligent design as it is also known


2. this question is an "appeal to belief fallacy " try again not logical support, actually the exact opposite .



3. Both appeal to belief and appeal to common practice. try again for a logical argument so far you are failing to understand what logic means



4. once again close to intelligent design argument but too incomplete to warrant a logical response . begs the question once again


As far as Einstein is concerned that is an "appeal to flattery fallacy" I believe but i am not up to date on my fallacies could be wrong about that one . but for a sure a a fallacy



So if you want a logical debate brush up on your arguments and logic . And I will be more than happy to engage from the Atheist side to play devils advocate ( no pun intended)heheh
.
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
#1 - I see you ASSUME god is a male entity. You refer to god as being a "He." In case you didn't know, Creation CANNOT exist with only male energy. For all of Creation to exist, there must be BOTH male AND female energy.

2 - Why is it that you insist on lumping all non-believers (anyone who disagrees with your religious beliefs) in the same group? You make no distinction between Spiritualists and Atheists. You know there is a HUGE difference, right?

3 - I agree that the existence of your Buy-Bull god as being the Infinite First Consciousness/ Unconditional Love/Source of all Creation, as totally, 100% illogical!! YOUR biblical god CANNOT possibly be all those things. YOUR Buy-Bull god calls HIMSELF (notice I made it very clear this is a "HE!!") a "MAN OF WAR." A "man" is masculine and "war" is as far away from LOVE as you can get.

4 - Here you go again. You claim the Source of all Creation is a "HE." PROVE IT!!

5 - You dare call me an atheist because I do not accept your Buy-Bull god as the True Infinite First Consciousness. FYI, `My`god appears to me in everything that is known as Nature. Mother Nature in all Her spender and awesome power is all I need to know there is an Infinite First Consciousness - call it Unconditional Love if you like.

6 - Did you make that one up? Most intelligent people are very much aware of the fact that only 4% of reality can be `seen`with the naked eye. The other 96% is known as dark or black energy (not Evil, just invisible to the naked eye).

7 - More nonsense about a `HE`being the Creator of all that is. NONSENSE!! You need BOTH male AND female energy for Creation to exist.

8 - The `logical proof`as you call it, has nothing to do with your Buy-Bull fraudulent god.

9 - Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind. Einstein

I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it. (Albert Einstein, 1954)

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