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A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)

 
Anonymous Coward
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09/27/2012 10:46 AM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
It takes a thousand times more faith to believe in Naturalism than it does to believe in an Intelligent Creator.

EVERYTHING in this Universe reveals amazing fine-tuning, complexity and coordination that can only be rationally inferred as to have originated with an incredible Intelligence.

Atheists are fully reliant on "Naturalism of the Gaps", a Faith system that dominates orthodox academia.

Every scientific discovery is another nail in the coffin for Naturalism.

THE GLORY BELONGS TO GOD.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Romans 1:20
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09/27/2012 10:54 AM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
It takes a thousand times more faith to believe in Naturalism than it does to believe in an Intelligent Creator.

EVERYTHING in this Universe reveals amazing fine-tuning, complexity and coordination that can only be rationally inferred as to have originated with an incredible Intelligence.

Atheists are fully reliant on "Naturalism of the Gaps", a Faith system that dominates orthodox academia.

Every scientific discovery is another nail in the coffin for Naturalism.

THE GLORY BELONGS TO GOD.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Romans 1:20

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519


And where did your magic man in the sky get his 'incredible Intelligence' if he existed in a time of nothing?
Anonymous Coward
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09/27/2012 10:55 AM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
It takes a thousand times more faith to believe in Naturalism than it does to believe in an Intelligent Creator.

EVERYTHING in this Universe reveals amazing fine-tuning, complexity and coordination that can only be rationally inferred as to have originated with an incredible Intelligence.

Atheists are fully reliant on "Naturalism of the Gaps", a Faith system that dominates orthodox academia.

Every scientific discovery is another nail in the coffin for Naturalism.

THE GLORY BELONGS TO GOD.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Romans 1:20

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519

And, of course, this has to be the Christian God, hence the need to quote Bible scripture. God, the man in the sky with the long beard that created man out of dust. The same God who created a woman out of the rib of man but managed to create all the animals without dust OR ribs? The same God who thought that the Tower of Babal was scarey because people were trying to reach him. The same God who instructs men to go into a town and kill everything, men, women, child, suckling, and tear the unborn baby from the mother's belly. (Would you like the Scripture verse for that one?)


You say there has to be an intelligent creator but can't exactly explain why no one intelligently created him? You say that the universe is fine tuned and perfect but can't exactly explain why God allows children to starve to death in Africa or why he allows innocent children to be tortured or raped. Apparently, this god doesn't give a damn, just exactly like he didn't give a damn in the OT. So if your God is real, he most certainly isn't good and maybe you shouldn't be worshiping him???
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09/27/2012 11:12 AM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
It is not what you BELIEVE, It is what you DO that matters.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15670285


Yet it´s our beliefs that cause us to act. Wrong beliefs = wrong doing and vice versa.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3020064



What is a wrong belief? Why don't "right" believers always do what is right?

Jesus believed in compassion, humility, and moderation. He did not discriminate, he helped everyone. This is not how Christians live today.
Anonymous Coward
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09/27/2012 11:14 AM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
It takes a thousand times more faith to believe in Naturalism than it does to believe in an Intelligent Creator.

EVERYTHING in this Universe reveals amazing fine-tuning, complexity and coordination that can only be rationally inferred as to have originated with an incredible Intelligence.

Atheists are fully reliant on "Naturalism of the Gaps", a Faith system that dominates orthodox academia.

Every scientific discovery is another nail in the coffin for Naturalism.

THE GLORY BELONGS TO GOD.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Romans 1:20

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519


And where did your magic man in the sky get his 'incredible Intelligence' if he existed in a time of nothing?
 Quoting: SheldonCooper


As scripture has stated for thousands of years: God is the Beginning and the End. He did not "get" his intelligence from anywhere. The Creator is not bound by the natural laws of causation of his Creation.

Are you going to argue that the Software Engineer is bound by the rules of his latest C++ Program?

God is the First Cause of our Reality, which can only be rationally argued to have originated with a supreme intelligence.

Like I said, Sheldon, you have a thousand times the blind faith that I do, and that's being generous.
Anonymous Coward
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09/27/2012 11:17 AM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
It is not what you BELIEVE, It is what you DO that matters.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15670285


Yet it´s our beliefs that cause us to act. Wrong beliefs = wrong doing and vice versa.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3020064



What is a wrong belief?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15670285


"By their fruit you will recognise ..."
Anonymous Coward
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09/27/2012 11:18 AM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
It takes a thousand times more faith to believe in Naturalism than it does to believe in an Intelligent Creator.

EVERYTHING in this Universe reveals amazing fine-tuning, complexity and coordination that can only be rationally inferred as to have originated with an incredible Intelligence.

Atheists are fully reliant on "Naturalism of the Gaps", a Faith system that dominates orthodox academia.

Every scientific discovery is another nail in the coffin for Naturalism.

THE GLORY BELONGS TO GOD.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Romans 1:20

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519

And, of course, this has to be the Christian God, hence the need to quote Bible scripture. God, the man in the sky with the long beard that created man out of dust. The same God who created a woman out of the rib of man but managed to create all the animals without dust OR ribs? The same God who thought that the Tower of Babal was scarey because people were trying to reach him. The same God who instructs men to go into a town and kill everything, men, women, child, suckling, and tear the unborn baby from the mother's belly. (Would you like the Scripture verse for that one?)


You say there has to be an intelligent creator but can't exactly explain why no one intelligently created him? You say that the universe is fine tuned and perfect but can't exactly explain why God allows children to starve to death in Africa or why he allows innocent children to be tortured or raped. Apparently, this god doesn't give a damn, just exactly like he didn't give a damn in the OT. So if your God is real, he most certainly isn't good and maybe you shouldn't be worshiping him???
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


And yet, based on your post, you seem to believe the Creator of the Universe should bend to your reasoning and desire. I would like to know how you worked out the logic for that one.
Anonymous Coward
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09/27/2012 11:25 AM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
It takes a thousand times more faith to believe in Naturalism than it does to believe in an Intelligent Creator.

EVERYTHING in this Universe reveals amazing fine-tuning, complexity and coordination that can only be rationally inferred as to have originated with an incredible Intelligence.

Atheists are fully reliant on "Naturalism of the Gaps", a Faith system that dominates orthodox academia.

Every scientific discovery is another nail in the coffin for Naturalism.

THE GLORY BELONGS TO GOD.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Romans 1:20

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519


And where did your magic man in the sky get his 'incredible Intelligence' if he existed in a time of nothing?
 Quoting: SheldonCooper


As scripture has stated for thousands of years: God is the Beginning and the End. He did not "get" his intelligence from anywhere. The Creator is not bound by the natural laws of causation of his Creation.

Are you going to argue that the Software Engineer is bound by the rules of his latest C++ Program?

God is the First Cause of our Reality, which can only be rationally argued to have originated with a supreme intelligence.

Like I said, Sheldon, you have a thousand times the blind faith that I do, and that's being generous.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519


The software engineer has been trained from birth and has gained an intellect through learning and observation and trial and error. Your magic man in the sky could not have known everything where there was nothing to know.
Anonymous Coward
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09/27/2012 11:35 AM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
It takes a thousand times more faith to believe in Naturalism than it does to believe in an Intelligent Creator.

EVERYTHING in this Universe reveals amazing fine-tuning, complexity and coordination that can only be rationally inferred as to have originated with an incredible Intelligence.

Atheists are fully reliant on "Naturalism of the Gaps", a Faith system that dominates orthodox academia.

Every scientific discovery is another nail in the coffin for Naturalism.

THE GLORY BELONGS TO GOD.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Romans 1:20

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519


And where did your magic man in the sky get his 'incredible Intelligence' if he existed in a time of nothing?
 Quoting: SheldonCooper


As scripture has stated for thousands of years: God is the Beginning and the End. He did not "get" his intelligence from anywhere. The Creator is not bound by the natural laws of causation of his Creation.

Are you going to argue that the Software Engineer is bound by the rules of his latest C++ Program?

God is the First Cause of our Reality, which can only be rationally argued to have originated with a supreme intelligence.

Like I said, Sheldon, you have a thousand times the blind faith that I do, and that's being generous.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519


The software engineer has been trained from birth and has gained an intellect through learning and observation and trial and error. Your magic man in the sky could not have known everything where there was nothing to know.
 Quoting: SheldonCooper


You evaded the question. Is the software engineer bound to the rules of his C++ program?
Anonymous Coward
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
Before I start off I would like to mention a few things. This is not a hate thread and it's not my intention to start a big fight between Christians and atheists. I hope we can keep this thread peaceful and mature. If you want to express your opinion and start a discussion that's fine, as long as it doesn't go out of control. Remember, keep it civilized and mature. If you, while reading this post, get the impression that I mock atheists or being disrespectful to them, forgive me if it comes off like that. It is not my intention to hate anyone or to be disrespectful. I hope this thread will generate dozens of pages filled with interesting posts. Also, it would mean a lot to me if you read this entire post. I just don't like when people post something and they haven't read anything. They see a Christian making a thread and they instantly post "retarded Christian!" or other immature stuff. As I said, it would mean the world to me if you read this entire post. I just feel like this is a very important thread for me to make and as a Christian I feel obligated to spread this message. Don't look at this thread as "...another Bible thumping thread" because it is not, although a few Bible quotes are inevitable to appear from time to time. :D

Alright, I got that out of my chest. Let us begin! What exactly defines atheism? Atheism really is nothing. Many people see atheism as logical and critical thinking and other people see atheism as a way of living by your own rules and to seek yourself. The general definition is simply; "not believing in a God". This is what atheists believe, right? That's alright with me. You have a free mind and you get to choose whatever you want to believe in. I have no problem with that. However, I tend to disagree with some of the things atheists say and this thread is simply to answer some arguments atheists frequently use as a way to "disprove" God. If you disagree with me on the stuff I'm about to write feel free to start a discussion. (Remember... civilized!)

_____________________________________________________________​__

CONTENTS:

1) Atheist: Who created God?

2) Atheist: God does not exist?

3) Atheist: The existence of God is illogical!

4) Atheist: Can God create a rock...

5) Atheist: Prove God!

6) Atheist: I only believe in what I can see and touch.

7) God is spiritual and is proved with spiritual methods.

8) Logical proof of God.

9) Einstein and Strindberg. Wise men!
_____________________________________________________________​_


1) Atheist: Who created God?

I hear this argument all the time! Atheist use this argument frequently to disprove the existence of God. I understand the argument, I do, but there are many flaws. First of all, the question "who created God?" ASSUMES that God is limited. It assumes that God has a beginning and will therefor have an end. But the God of the Bible doesn't have a limit, He doesn't have a beginning and an end. God was never created because He does not consist of the unaware created matter, but by the aware eternal spiritual energy. Besides, God can't have been created by someone else, because God by definition is FIRST, the reason of all cause! God was first. How on Earth's name can the first one be created? That's like asking "what letter comes before A?".

THE CREATER COULD NOT HAVE BEEN CREATED BECAUSE IN THAT CASE HE WOULDN'T BE THE CREATOR!

God is outside of His Creation. He is outside of our universe. God created time, space and matter and God is OUTSIDE of all that. There is no time where God is, only eternity. God simply just is. He hasn't been created. And strangely enough, the atheist never ask themself the same question about Big Bang. Where did Big Bang come from? Big Bang, according to the text books, created everything in the universe. It therefor created time, space and matter as well. Which came first? Without space, where do you put matter? Without time, WHEN do you put matter? You see how time, space and matter must have been created at the EXACT same time? Big Bang teaches us that everything created itself out of absolutely nothing. Let me ask you this. How did Big Bang explode? Where did the energy for this explosion come from? Out of nowhere? Where did time, space and matter come from? Out of nowhere? For some reason, people really believe Big Bang occured. People seriously believe that everything in existence created itself out of absolutely nothing.

The universe must have an original cause!
There has to be a first original cause otherwise the universe wouldn't exist. Matter can't be the first cause becase life, awareness and intelligence can simply not plop out of lifeless matter. Matter cannot have created itself. To believe that matter is the original cause of the universe is the same as believing that mud is the cause of the crock. By practical experience every human knows that there's NOTHING which can create itself out of nothing. Mud had a creator. Believing that something can create itself is a stupid fable and only narrow minded atheists will believe that. (Sorry for being a tad harsh but it's true)

Not believing in an original first cause which created our universe is as stupid as believing that everything we see around us came out of nothingness.
God is in His original spiritual shape forever in the spiritual world, in God's kingdom, which was never created and will never be gone. Humans are just by nature greedy and full of pride. We want to be God's ourselves, we want to follow our own rules. The suffering in this world is a wake up call for all of us to realize that we do not belong here in this world full of evil of pain.
_____________________________________________________________​___

2) Atheist: God does not exist!

That is a definite assumption, an absolute. Only someone who's all knowing can come with definite assumptions like that. Are you all knowing? By saying something like that you sure make it seem like that. In that case, you're God! Because you know EVERYTHING there is!
But no man knows everything, we know very little in ratio to what there is to know. But let's just assume for one moment that you know 50% of everything. That's a lot of knowledge. What if God exists on the other side, the other 50%?
_____________________________________________________________​___

3) Atheist: The existence of God is illogical.

If you think that it's illogical for God to exist, did you ever stop to think the same thing about yourself? Do you think it's logial for you to exist? Why is your own existence more logical than God's? To believe that our own existence came about without an existing cause is the same as believing that sunrays can exist without the sun.
_____________________________________________________________​___

4) Atheist: Can God create a rock so heavy He cannot lift it Himself? And if he can't lift it, he's not almighty.

God is so almighty that He can expand Himself in two seperate shapes in which he lifts the rock in one, and does not lift the rock in the other shape. Besides, God is infinitely strong so it's a piece of cake for Him to lift a rock which is infinitely heavy.
If I would ask you to draw a square triangle what would you do? Would you take out your pencil and draw one? No you wouldn't because you know that a triangle per definition has three sides, not four. To draw a "square triangle" says nothing about your ability to draw triangles (or squares) because a "square triangle" is simply a nonsense expression I made up by puttin two words together. A rock so heavy no one can lift it is the same nonsense expression because a rock is per definition an object with a weight and can always be lifted assuming you're strong enough. To talk about a "rock to heavy for anyone to lift" is just as much nonsense as a square triangle. The "argument" is not a proper argument against God or his Almightyness, it's just a game with words. It's a logical contradiction, which is indeed pretty funny, but it does not hold up as an argument.
_____________________________________________________________​___

5) Atheist: Prove God!

Atheists always demand God to appear Himself in front of their eyes before they will start believing. This is simply pride and God does not answer prideful challenges just as much as the President of USA would pay you a visit without you giving him any worthy qualifications which caught his attention. Ask yourself this: Do you, as an atheist, deserve to have a personal visit by the Almighty? What are your qualifications? When you can't even get the President of USA to pay you a visit, what makes you think God would appear in His all Greatness in front of your very eyes? It's the opposite. Atheists despise God, they spit on Him and do not want to get rid of their illusion that God does not exist. They want it to stay that way and because God does not interfere with the free will, the atheist will never feel the presence of God until he change his attitude. For the atheist, God will prove His existence when it's too late, when you're dead.
You cannot *see* God until you *realize*. Remember that. You must realize that God is essential and that His existence is the foundation of everything that is. First *realize* then *see*. If you cannot realize that the existence of God is essential for the universe to exist, how can we ever prove to such a blind person the existence of God when he doesn't have a clue about God's spiritual nature, looks and personality. You can never prove or convince an atheist about God or anything other that's spiritual because that atheist is spiritual blind.
This is like proving a color for someone who's blind.
_____________________________________________________________​_______

6) Atheist: I only believe in what I can see and touch.

Can you see, hear or touch your thoughts?
Can you see, hear or touch your intelligence?
Can you see, hear or touch your conciousness?

No, you can't. There are phenomenon in this world which cannot be perceived with our physical senses. That's just the way it is. Because you don't really believe you're thoughtless, without a concious and an IQ with a negative value? I thought so. That's all I have to say. :D
_____________________________________________________________​________

7) God is spiritual and is proved with spiritual methods.

God is outside of the capabilites of science because God is spiritual and eternal and is not bound by time and matter as we are. He created a world accessable for scientific methods, but He is beyond it. This is not a weakness for a belief in Creation, just a limitation within science. The definition of science is gathering information by observing and experimenting, and from this make logical conclusions. God created a world which we can define by science. But He Himself cannot be defined in the same way. We can't see Him in a microscope or a telescope because He is outside of His Creation and using material instruments to find Him is useless. God is not material, He's spiritual all through and God is therefor not a part of our scientific competency which only deals with the material part of reality.
Science is a method, formulated by man, to study the physical reality. There's absolutely NOTHING which says (more than your own pride) that there isn't anything beyond our physical reality.

MATERIAL phenomenon can only be proven by MATERIAL methods!
SPIRITUAL phenomenon can only be proven by SPIRITUAL methods!

God's existence can only be found in the spiritual dimension which means that all of the atheists attempts to find Him with material methods have all been in vain and will forever fail. God can be found in our hearts and He will never leave our hearts. But to see, hear, experience or feel Him in our hearts is only possible when your heart is completely pure and washed away from all your sins. You just need to humble yourself and be sincere, first then will the proof come to you. You cannot find proof by using a binocular or measuringtape :D
_____________________________________________________________​_____________

8) Logical proof of God.

Perfection in the Creation:

How can it be that everything is so perfect? Everything is just so balanced and it's just simply amazing. The human body is so complex that scientists can't even explain half of how it works. Many interactions in nature are hard to explain without a "Creator". The whole Creation shows that there must be some form of logic behind it all. For many people, the perfection of our planet and the universe is proof enough.

The quest for the meaning of life:

Humans always needs something to live for because it's not enough to just exist. For some reason we always seek some form of a meaning. It's like we lost our meaning of life and since then we try to find it again in a way or another. Someone can give us the meaning of life, this Someone has to be God. The need for a meaning of life is a clue or proof that God exists.

The inner void:

Sometimes we speak of an inner void in humans, something which is missing. There are surprisingly many people who feel like there's something missing. Why do we have that feeling of emptiness? This emptiness came when we decided not to have anything to do with God. When you seek God it's just like this emptiness is replaced with a meaning. It's the same for all believers in God and this is a clue or proof that God exists.

The personal experience of God:

You often hear believers say: "I've experienced God". So many people can witness about the presence of God that it simply cannot be made up. This presence of God is mutual for all believers and something like that would have been impossible if God was just a made up person. Faith is a conviction of things you do not see.
The whole universe just seems so perfectly calibrated to make life possible. For this to be the work of Mr. Coincidence a.k.a. Big Bang is something only dopey, foggy theorists believe in. Just take your eyes as an example. Each eye has 110 million pixels each. Only someone as brilliant as God can come up with something that genius!
_____________________________________________________________​__

9) Einstein and Strindberg. Wise men!

"When I read the Bhagavad-Gita and reflect about how God created this universe everything else seems so superfluous." Albert Einstein

"It's just as illogical to believe in the world but deny God, as it is to believe in the shoe but deny the shoemaker" August Strindberg
_____________________________________________________________​___

What do you say folks? Hopefully this got you thinking a little bit. The Bible mentions how humans will behave during the end times. Humans will be lovers of themselves in the end times according to the Bible. Does that not fit the world today? Go to any gym and you'll see a guy standing in front of a mirror looking at his muscles and his clean shaved, tanned body. Humans will also walk after their own lust. Surely our world today is lustful, more than ever. We are living in the end times folks. Last chapters of revelations are coming true. The human behaviour today fits perfectly with end times scripture. Also, natural disasters have increased alot the past 100 years! A lot! There's also a lot of tensions between many of the strongest nations on Earth and the Bible says that there will be rumors of wars (WW3). And the past 100 years we've seen a huge increase in technology and the Bible mentions a period in human history where this would happen!

Well... this is all I had for now. God bless anyone who actually read this far! I'm sorry if there are any spelling or grammar mistakes. I'm only a 19 year old kid from Sweden so my English vocabulary is limited. The sentence structure might also be flawed here and there but it's really late here in Sweden and I wrote this pretty quickly.
I can go on and on how my life has changed since I found Jesus Christ when I was about 17 years old, but I think I will pass on that actually. Needless to say, my life changed for the better. No emptiness, no depression and no hate in my body. I just feel happy and pure, it's an awesome feeling! The free gift of salvation cannot do you any harm! Why not accept the gift Jesus Christ gave us when he sacrificed Himself for us? Don't know what to do? Read this website: [link to christianity.about.com]

If you do what the link above says, and you're sincere about it then you're saved. Your soul is not damned any longer. But why stop there? Why not go out there and spread the word about Jesus Christ and the gift of salvation? Find out what His will is and do it! Live a great life, hate no one, fear no one, love thy Lord, read scriptures, talk to the Lord every day by praying and as mentioned, win souls to Christ!
_____________________________________________________________​______

Still not sure what to make of all this? I recommend you check out my other thread about Kent Hovind. His seminars are simply AMAZING! Words cannot describe how amazing they are. His seminars alone must have saved thousands and thousands of souls. Simply amazing.

Thread: Kent Hovind. Spread the word.
_____________________________________________________________​________
 Quoting: Vinyard


People often wonder what is the point of life.

They do not understand that the creation process is not complete.

God wanted to created free willed beings just like him, but he wanted free willed beings that chose good over evil, having been given a choice.

God by necessity had to create satan for this very purpose, as free willed beings need to experience good AND evil, in order for them to make a choice.

God's creation process of these free willed beings will only be completed when judgement day arrives.

Those that chose good will have passed. Those that chose evil will be destroyed.

God's creation process of mankind is nearly complete.

Hang in there.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
First, you must know some pretty simpleminded atheists if those are the sort of questions you get.

They sound more like questions some Christian evangelist would claim atheists ask in order to deliver his trite patronizing rhetoric.

Secondly... KEN HOVIND?

Really?
At this stage we're still getting links to Ken Hovind?

Ken "arrested on 58 charges of fraud and tax evasion" Hovind...
That's who you use as the backbone of your thread?


Fair enough but I am forced to question his integrity given his history, anyway back to your questions...

TBH, I never ask any of those questions you posit as common atheist inquiries.
But here's a question I do sometimes ask people like you... what kind of God allows Josef Fritzel's daughter to suffer twenty years of rape and captivity at the hands of her father?

What was the "divine" plan for her and all the other countless souls suffering like her right this second?


You don't think they are praying, begging God to help them... but for most of them, for 99% of them... God is callously silent.

What possible lesson did God want her to learn and could only be delivered by twenty years of rape, every single day for two decades of her life?
For her to give birth to his children and then have them forced to watch?

How DARE you preach this drivel about a compassionate God in the face of such suffering, what cheek, what arrogance, what blindness.

I'm sure God works in mysterious ways and all, but I'm just asking you to speculate, hypothesize for us, wonder aloud... what was your all loving compassionate God trying to teach that girl?

Your God created all of existence knowing that one day that girl would be in that basement... Please, justify that with your faith if you can and demonstrate the utter arrogance and lack of any real compassion that typifies the religous believer.

You make yourself feel better with warm and fluffy stories about a caring God benevolently watching over his children... You just ignore the vast unimaginable scale of innocent suffering in the world.

A single child doesn't die in a burning building and you're all praising God's intervention while you ignore the other countless children enduring brutal horrific suffering every second of the day.

Religion isn't a crutch, it's a fluffy pillow you bury your face in and shut out the reality of existence because you can't cope any other way.

I trust my tone was civil enough for your thread, good day.
 Quoting: The Ghost of Hitch 15489233


Satan rules earth and gains power by inappropriate choices we make in life by doing so, opens the door to evil in our own lives. The bible never promised a strife free, easy ,safe life. Look at the violence that was encountered during its writing periods.

It is most unfortunate that evil fell upon this young girl. If she is able, she needs to turn to jesus to help her heal from that very tragic experience and only he can help her with that. She can find peace again through him. If she is gone she is with him and will have already found that peace.

We must accept Jesus as our Lord and Saviour with full knowledge that it is our choice to do so and mean that promise from the bottom of your heart. How we behave in this life determines our entitlments in the afterlife. It is about choices and giving of oneself to others without anticipation of anything in return.

As an infant/child god is with you but not once you have decision making capabilities. You must choose and commit
yourself to him. Through him and with him, you can accomplish anything.

One is not measured by what one has but what one does for another. It is your true self that is judged in the end, not ones riches or accomplishsments achieved during this lifetime. Instead they will look at, Honesty - Love - Forgiveness - Empathy - Charity- Kindness - and of course your transgressions.
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
...


And where did your magic man in the sky get his 'incredible Intelligence' if he existed in a time of nothing?
 Quoting: SheldonCooper


As scripture has stated for thousands of years: God is the Beginning and the End. He did not "get" his intelligence from anywhere. The Creator is not bound by the natural laws of causation of his Creation.

Are you going to argue that the Software Engineer is bound by the rules of his latest C++ Program?

God is the First Cause of our Reality, which can only be rationally argued to have originated with a supreme intelligence.

Like I said, Sheldon, you have a thousand times the blind faith that I do, and that's being generous.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519


The software engineer has been trained from birth and has gained an intellect through learning and observation and trial and error. Your magic man in the sky could not have known everything where there was nothing to know.
 Quoting: SheldonCooper


You evaded the question. Is the software engineer bound to the rules of his C++ program?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519


You still havent answered the original one. Your question would only be relevant if this 'software engineer' had spent their entire life in a dark space and received no education and learned nothing from their life.
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
The software engineer has been trained from birth and has gained an intellect through learning and observation and trial and error. Your magic man in the sky could not have known everything where there was nothing to know.
 Quoting: SheldonCooper


That's like saying the software engineer could not have written code because there was no code to write. The engineer's intelligent qualities that allow him to write the computer program are beyond the bounds of the program itself.

Nobody claims to fully understand God's qualities, but He is certainly not bound to the rules of causation of his Creation.
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
The software engineer has been trained from birth and has gained an intellect through learning and observation and trial and error. Your magic man in the sky could not have known everything where there was nothing to know.
 Quoting: SheldonCooper


That's like saying the software engineer could not have written code because there was no code to write. The engineer's intelligent qualities that allow him to write the computer program are beyond the bounds of the program itself.

Nobody claims to fully understand God's qualities, but He is certainly not bound to the rules of causation of his Creation.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519


Thats probably the dumbest statement i have read all day.
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
It takes a thousand times more faith to believe in Naturalism than it does to believe in an Intelligent Creator.

EVERYTHING in this Universe reveals amazing fine-tuning, complexity and coordination that can only be rationally inferred as to have originated with an incredible Intelligence.

Atheists are fully reliant on "Naturalism of the Gaps", a Faith system that dominates orthodox academia.

Every scientific discovery is another nail in the coffin for Naturalism.

THE GLORY BELONGS TO GOD.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Romans 1:20

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519

And, of course, this has to be the Christian God, hence the need to quote Bible scripture. God, the man in the sky with the long beard that created man out of dust. The same God who created a woman out of the rib of man but managed to create all the animals without dust OR ribs? The same God who thought that the Tower of Babal was scarey because people were trying to reach him. The same God who instructs men to go into a town and kill everything, men, women, child, suckling, and tear the unborn baby from the mother's belly. (Would you like the Scripture verse for that one?)


You say there has to be an intelligent creator but can't exactly explain why no one intelligently created him? You say that the universe is fine tuned and perfect but can't exactly explain why God allows children to starve to death in Africa or why he allows innocent children to be tortured or raped. Apparently, this god doesn't give a damn, just exactly like he didn't give a damn in the OT. So if your God is real, he most certainly isn't good and maybe you shouldn't be worshiping him???
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


And yet, based on your post, you seem to believe the Creator of the Universe should bend to your reasoning and desire. I would like to know how you worked out the logic for that one.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519

Do you ever think before you type? You really should. First off, I don't believe there WAS a CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE. So, naturally, I wouldn't expect this non-existant fairy tale that you happen to believe in would bend to reasoning or logic. There is one thing Christians know nothing about and that is reason, logic, truth, etc. To even bring up logic when you discuss some character in a book that you believe in is silly beyond measure.

As for desire, you are completely off track. I DO desire that there would be a good God. Who wouldn't? I would love to believe that I would live forever in a mansion in the sky with all my dead friends and relatives. The thing is that, as a reasonable adult, I know that the chances of that happening are close to zero. So I could fantasize about this (like you do) or I could accept REALITY. As an adult, I prefer to accept reality. How about you?
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
So basically, you doubt your god and that is why you are trying to make other people believe, so that you can strengthen your believe.

If this is not the case then you are simply a very backward person and anything you say on this topic is pretty much void, this is 2012.
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
Why is everyone so focused on where we came from? Is this just a contest to see who is right? I am personally more interested in where we are going. The world is a fucking mess right now and we need each other if we are going to survive these crazy times. Unity and Diversity are the keys to our success.

When our kids grow up, they are going to find out that instead of focusing on providing some kind of sustainable future for them, we focused our energy on trying to prove or disprove something that we will probably never prove or disprove. Our children deserve better.
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
First, you must know some pretty simpleminded atheists if those are the sort of questions you get.

They sound more like questions some Christian evangelist would claim atheists ask in order to deliver his trite patronizing rhetoric.

Secondly... KEN HOVIND?

Really?
At this stage we're still getting links to Ken Hovind?

Ken "arrested on 58 charges of fraud and tax evasion" Hovind...
That's who you use as the backbone of your thread?


Fair enough but I am forced to question his integrity given his history, anyway back to your questions...

TBH, I never ask any of those questions you posit as common atheist inquiries.
But here's a question I do sometimes ask people like you... what kind of God allows Josef Fritzel's daughter to suffer twenty years of rape and captivity at the hands of her father?

What was the "divine" plan for her and all the other countless souls suffering like her right this second?


You don't think they are praying, begging God to help them... but for most of them, for 99% of them... God is callously silent.

What possible lesson did God want her to learn and could only be delivered by twenty years of rape, every single day for two decades of her life?
For her to give birth to his children and then have them forced to watch?

How DARE you preach this drivel about a compassionate God in the face of such suffering, what cheek, what arrogance, what blindness.

I'm sure God works in mysterious ways and all, but I'm just asking you to speculate, hypothesize for us, wonder aloud... what was your all loving compassionate God trying to teach that girl?

Your God created all of existence knowing that one day that girl would be in that basement... Please, justify that with your faith if you can and demonstrate the utter arrogance and lack of any real compassion that typifies the religous believer.

You make yourself feel better with warm and fluffy stories about a caring God benevolently watching over his children... You just ignore the vast unimaginable scale of innocent suffering in the world.

A single child doesn't die in a burning building and you're all praising God's intervention while you ignore the other countless children enduring brutal horrific suffering every second of the day.

Religion isn't a crutch, it's a fluffy pillow you bury your face in and shut out the reality of existence because you can't cope any other way.

I trust my tone was civil enough for your thread, good day.
 Quoting: The Ghost of Hitch 15489233


Satan rules earth and gains power by inappropriate choices we make in life by doing so, opens the door to evil in our own lives. The bible never promised a strife free, easy ,safe life. Look at the violence that was encountered during its writing periods.

It is most unfortunate that evil fell upon this young girl. If she is able, she needs to turn to jesus to help her heal from that very tragic experience and only he can help her with that. She can find peace again through him. If she is gone she is with him and will have already found that peace.

We must accept Jesus as our Lord and Saviour with full knowledge that it is our choice to do so and mean that promise from the bottom of your heart. How we behave in this life determines our entitlments in the afterlife. It is about choices and giving of oneself to others without anticipation of anything in return.

As an infant/child god is with you but not once you have decision making capabilities. You must choose and commit
yourself to him. Through him and with him, you can accomplish anything.

One is not measured by what one has but what one does for another. It is your true self that is judged in the end, not ones riches or accomplishsments achieved during this lifetime. Instead they will look at, Honesty - Love - Forgiveness - Empathy - Charity- Kindness - and of course your transgressions.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21814696

BUT...There IS NO afterlife. There never lived a man who walked on water, was born of a virgin, was raised from the dead, etc. All of this is non-existant and yet you live your life trying to comply to some rules that you think some God has created for you.

Accept Jesus and you are home free, you believe, only because you think you have to. Confess all your sins and you make God happy. Commit yourself to God, give him your life, etc., and you will be accepted by God. All of it is insane. These are simply rules man made for you. Make your own rules. Grow up.

You should be honest because honestly is the best policy, no matter what your religion. You should love others because that is how you expect them to treat you. You should forgive people because holding unforgiveness in your heart is detrimental to your own growth. You should have empathy because it is always best to try to wear the other person's shoes. You should be charitable because others are needy. If you are not in need, you should help them. You should be kind because it is the right thing to do. NONE of these things have anything at all to do with some God. This is the way you should live, with or without God. You know this inside of yourself...you don't need some old book to tell you this. Or do you???
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
The software engineer has been trained from birth and has gained an intellect through learning and observation and trial and error. Your magic man in the sky could not have known everything where there was nothing to know.
 Quoting: SheldonCooper


That's like saying the software engineer could not have written code because there was no code to write. The engineer's intelligent qualities that allow him to write the computer program are beyond the bounds of the program itself.

Nobody claims to fully understand God's qualities, but He is certainly not bound to the rules of causation of his Creation.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519


Thats probably the dumbest statement i have read all day.
 Quoting: SheldonCooper


It is rational. An intelligence can create a rule system that it is not bound to. And you have failed to produce a counter argument. That's why you are predictably reduced to ad hominem.
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
Why is everyone so focused on where we came from? Is this just a contest to see who is right? I am personally more interested in where we are going. The world is a fucking mess right now and we need each other if we are going to survive these crazy times. Unity and Diversity are the keys to our success.

When our kids grow up, they are going to find out that instead of focusing on providing some kind of sustainable future for them, we focused our energy on trying to prove or disprove something that we will probably never prove or disprove. Our children deserve better.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15670285

You are right but it has to start somewhere. This world is a mess. Religion is a cause of some of this. Religions operate by using the divide and conquer rule. It is "My religion is better than yours. My God is better than your God. I have the truth, you don't." If we don't get rid of religion, we will never have unity and the religious people don't particularly care about diversity. They seem to only love their own kind.

I wish to live in John Lennon's "Imagine" world where there is no hell, no heaven, no religion and we all live as one. That won't ever happen so you might as well forget about it. It is probably always going to be this way but I do see the younger people of today turning their backs on religion more and more.

Maybe no one can honestly prove if God does or doesn't exist but I think we should always go with facts. Evolution is taught as a college course. It is a scientific theory, just like the theory of gravity. In other words, it has basically been proven. There are still a few kinks in it but humans are not fully evolved yet. We don't use all of our brains. I am pretty stupid, I'll admit. But here is the thing, I would rather listen to a scientist than to listen to some old fart television evangelist who is trying to rob people of their money by feeding them a religion of fear. A good percentage of scientists (about 93 percent) don't believe there is a God. I prefer to believe them. I think you should too.
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
The software engineer has been trained from birth and has gained an intellect through learning and observation and trial and error. Your magic man in the sky could not have known everything where there was nothing to know.
 Quoting: SheldonCooper


That's like saying the software engineer could not have written code because there was no code to write. The engineer's intelligent qualities that allow him to write the computer program are beyond the bounds of the program itself.

Nobody claims to fully understand God's qualities, but He is certainly not bound to the rules of causation of his Creation.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519


Thats probably the dumbest statement i have read all day.
 Quoting: SheldonCooper


It is rational. An intelligence can create a rule system that it is not bound to. And you have failed to produce a counter argument. That's why you are predictably reduced to ad hominem.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519


No, the fact that the software engineer is a software engineer shows education and learning, it shows the use of tools and models and more than one system. The magic man in the sky story has none of that, just the idea that someone who existed when there was nothing knew everything.
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
The software engineer has been trained from birth and has gained an intellect through learning and observation and trial and error. Your magic man in the sky could not have known everything where there was nothing to know.
 Quoting: SheldonCooper


That's like saying the software engineer could not have written code because there was no code to write. The engineer's intelligent qualities that allow him to write the computer program are beyond the bounds of the program itself.

Nobody claims to fully understand God's qualities, but He is certainly not bound to the rules of causation of his Creation.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519


Thats probably the dumbest statement i have read all day.
 Quoting: SheldonCooper


It is rational. An intelligence can create a rule system that it is not bound to. And you have failed to produce a counter argument. That's why you are predictably reduced to ad hominem.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519

Why would an "intelligence" create a rule system that it is not bound to? Would this be a good intelligence? If the "intelligence/God" kills babies but tells you that you can't do this or you will go to hell, is this a rational intelligence? OR is this something that you made up so that you can still hang on to the silly notion that you will live after death? If you don't fully understand God than why pretend that you do. That seems very foolish to me. Why can't you just admit what most scientists have been saying all along, there is no God, no intelligence, no creator. It answers a lot of questions.
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
Do you ever think before you type? You really should. First off, I don't believe there WAS a CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE. So, naturally, I wouldn't expect this non-existant fairy tale that you happen to believe in would bend to reasoning or logic.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


You were arguing that the concept of God is irrational because he does not meet your intellectual standards. I simply pointed out how silly that point of view is.

As for desire, you are completely off track. I DO desire that there would be a good God. Who wouldn't?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


People who don't want to follow rules laid out by the Creator, those people who would rather follow their own temptations and worship themselves.

Most people want to find God like a thief wants to find a cop.


The thing is that, as a reasonable adult, I know that the chances of that happening are close to zero. So I could fantasize about this (like you do) or I could accept REALITY. As an adult, I prefer to accept reality. How about you?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


Let me guess.. this """reality""" that human consciousness evolved from a statistically impossible chance mutation of slime billions of years ago? That reality?

Are you sure your random molecules aren't fizzing wrong on that one?

Like I said before, your Faith dwarfs mine in comparison.
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
Do you ever think before you type? You really should. First off, I don't believe there WAS a CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE. So, naturally, I wouldn't expect this non-existant fairy tale that you happen to believe in would bend to reasoning or logic.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


You were arguing that the concept of God is irrational because he does not meet your intellectual standards. I simply pointed out how silly that point of view is.

As for desire, you are completely off track. I DO desire that there would be a good God. Who wouldn't?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


People who don't want to follow rules laid out by the Creator, those people who would rather follow their own temptations and worship themselves.

Most people want to find God like a thief wants to find a cop.


The thing is that, as a reasonable adult, I know that the chances of that happening are close to zero. So I could fantasize about this (like you do) or I could accept REALITY. As an adult, I prefer to accept reality. How about you?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


Let me guess.. this """reality""" that human consciousness evolved from a statistically impossible chance mutation of slime billions of years ago? That reality?

Are you sure your random molecules aren't fizzing wrong on that one?

Like I said before, your Faith dwarfs mine in comparison.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519

You really do have a problem so trying to explain things to someone brainwashed into a religion/cult, like you, is impossible. So let me just tell you that you should inquire about taking a college-level course in evolution. You don't seem intelligent enough to pass it but give it a try. You are saying that brilliant scientists are irrational, stupid, etc. They teach a college class on evolution but you are soooo brilliant that you can trump them. Give me a break. There really IS a reason why you don't find creationism taught in the classroom. The chance of some sky man creating you out of a pile of dust is zero. You just need to grow up and stop holding on to the silly notion that you will live forever. Then you will be home free.

I don't believe in God but this has nothing at all to do with how I live. I used to be a Christian and I am actually kinder, more compassionate, less judgmental and more loving now than I was then. Try to explain that...without telling yourself lies, of course. A belief in God is one reason why we see the world the way it is. Christians think they can cheat on their taxes, slander people, lie, commit adultery, and get away with it. They think some imaginary man in the sky forgives them because he loves them soooo much. Atheists just know it is wrong to live their lives that way. They have a thing called a conscience. You are taught to call it the holy spirit but that is because of your brainwashing, probably since childhood. Please, grow up.
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
...


That's like saying the software engineer could not have written code because there was no code to write. The engineer's intelligent qualities that allow him to write the computer program are beyond the bounds of the program itself.

Nobody claims to fully understand God's qualities, but He is certainly not bound to the rules of causation of his Creation.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519


Thats probably the dumbest statement i have read all day.
 Quoting: SheldonCooper


It is rational. An intelligence can create a rule system that it is not bound to. And you have failed to produce a counter argument. That's why you are predictably reduced to ad hominem.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519


No, the fact that the software engineer is a software engineer shows education and learning, it shows the use of tools and models and more than one system. The magic man in the sky story has none of that, just the idea that someone who existed when there was nothing knew everything.
 Quoting: SheldonCooper


Yet the argument stands, the engineer is NOT bound to the rules of his creation.

If the Creation includes the 'Natural Laws of Cause and Effect', then the Creator is NOT bound to it.

While you are free to dislike this argument, it is still perfectly rational, and you've been unable to refute it.
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
...


Thats probably the dumbest statement i have read all day.
 Quoting: SheldonCooper


It is rational. An intelligence can create a rule system that it is not bound to. And you have failed to produce a counter argument. That's why you are predictably reduced to ad hominem.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519


No, the fact that the software engineer is a software engineer shows education and learning, it shows the use of tools and models and more than one system. The magic man in the sky story has none of that, just the idea that someone who existed when there was nothing knew everything.
 Quoting: SheldonCooper


Yet the argument stands, the engineer is NOT bound to the rules of his creation.

If the Creation includes the 'Natural Laws of Cause and Effect', then the Creator is NOT bound to it.

While you are free to dislike this argument, it is still perfectly rational, and you've been unable to refute it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519


No you are ignoring common sense. The engineer is not bound due to their education, and the education of the others in the system around them. The means, methods, modes and models are already in place and are both testable and possible to recreate. However a singular entity existing before itself existed has no means, methods, modes or models to have learned from. 'Christian Science' is yet to present one single model that fits with their ideas in the last 150 years.
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
However a singular entity existing before itself existed has no means, methods, modes or models to have learned from.
 Quoting: SheldonCooper


An entity existing before it existed? What on earth are you babbling about?


'Christian Science' is yet to present one single model that fits with their ideas in the last 150 years.
 Quoting: SheldonCooper


Yet every new scientific discovery points to an ever increasing complex system that defies a non-intelligent explanation.

Funny how the "invention of ignorant goat-herders" thousands of years ago is exactly what modern science points to today.

You had more of an excuse to believe in Naturalism in the middle ages.
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
However a singular entity existing before itself existed has no means, methods, modes or models to have learned from.
 Quoting: SheldonCooper


An entity existing before it existed? What on earth are you babbling about?


'Christian Science' is yet to present one single model that fits with their ideas in the last 150 years.
 Quoting: SheldonCooper


Yet every new scientific discovery points to an ever increasing complex system that defies a non-intelligent explanation.

Funny how the "invention of ignorant goat-herders" thousands of years ago is exactly what modern science points to today.

You had more of an excuse to believe in Naturalism in the middle ages.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519


Part 1, as a christian that is what you believe, that something already existed in the beginning.

Part 2, Show me one of these magic discoveries, in a peer-reviewed scientific journal.
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
Why is everyone so focused on where we came from? Is this just a contest to see who is right? I am personally more interested in where we are going. The world is a fucking mess right now and we need each other if we are going to survive these crazy times. Unity and Diversity are the keys to our success.

When our kids grow up, they are going to find out that instead of focusing on providing some kind of sustainable future for them, we focused our energy on trying to prove or disprove something that we will probably never prove or disprove. Our children deserve better.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15670285

You are right but it has to start somewhere. This world is a mess. Religion is a cause of some of this. Religions operate by using the divide and conquer rule. It is "My religion is better than yours. My God is better than your God. I have the truth, you don't." If we don't get rid of religion, we will never have unity and the religious people don't particularly care about diversity. They seem to only love their own kind.

I wish to live in John Lennon's "Imagine" world where there is no hell, no heaven, no religion and we all live as one. That won't ever happen so you might as well forget about it. It is probably always going to be this way but I do see the younger people of today turning their backs on religion more and more.

Maybe no one can honestly prove if God does or doesn't exist but I think we should always go with facts. Evolution is taught as a college course. It is a scientific theory, just like the theory of gravity. In other words, it has basically been proven. There are still a few kinks in it but humans are not fully evolved yet. We don't use all of our brains. I am pretty stupid, I'll admit. But here is the thing, I would rather listen to a scientist than to listen to some old fart television evangelist who is trying to rob people of their money by feeding them a religion of fear. A good percentage of scientists (about 93 percent) don't believe there is a God. I prefer to believe them. I think you should too.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


I do not belong to any organized religion. I believe god is different for everybody. I believe the missing link is beings from another planet. I am also a string theory believer.
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
Part 1, as a christian that is what you believe, that something already existed in the beginning.
 Quoting: SheldonCooper


Yes, God is the First Cause of the Physical Universe.

Part 2, Show me one of these magic discoveries, in a peer-reviewed scientific journal.
 Quoting: SheldonCooper


The existence of the living cell defies a random naturalistic origin. It is an incredibly complex system that points to intelligent design.