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A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)

 
Anonymous Coward
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
Part 1, as a christian that is what you believe, that something already existed in the beginning.
 Quoting: SheldonCooper


Yes, God is the First Cause of the Physical Universe.

Part 2, Show me one of these magic discoveries, in a peer-reviewed scientific journal.
 Quoting: SheldonCooper


The existence of the living cell defies a random naturalistic origin. It is an incredibly complex system that points to intelligent design.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519


Existing isnt just physical, there is zero proof of a magic man being first cause and it fits no 'rational' model.

Cells do the complete opposite, they are easily viewable and theoretically creatable as random. There is no proof of intelligent design. Again a being who knew everything at the time when there was nothing just happened to think up DNA?
Anonymous Coward
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
Existing isnt just physical, there is zero proof of a magic man being first cause and it fits no 'rational' model.
 Quoting: SheldonCooper


It is perfectly rational to infer that a system of laws originated with an intelligence.

There is zero proof that the physical universe created itself naturally out of nothing and yet you have blind faith in that.

Cells do the complete opposite, they are easily viewable and theoretically creatable as random.
 Quoting: SheldonCooper


They are about as "theoretically creatable" as closing your eyes, mashing a keyboard, and by chance typing out the Encylopedia Britannica word for word with no grammatical errors. In other words it is operationally impossible.

"theoretically possible" is another way of saying "anything is possible until we disprove it". You may as well be arguing that the flying spaghetti monster literally exists.

The most rational explanation is that such a sophisticated biological system was intelligently designed. Your Naturalistic Faith won't allow you to follow the logic.

And we're not even touching on the many examples of cosmological fine-tuning of which a slight variation would not allow life to exist.

Everything points to intelligent design.
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
Existing isnt just physical, there is zero proof of a magic man being first cause and it fits no 'rational' model.
 Quoting: SheldonCooper


It is perfectly rational to infer that a system of laws originated with an intelligence.

There is zero proof that the physical universe created itself naturally out of nothing and yet you have blind faith in that.

Cells do the complete opposite, they are easily viewable and theoretically creatable as random.
 Quoting: SheldonCooper


They are about as "theoretically creatable" as closing your eyes, mashing a keyboard, and by chance typing out the Encylopedia Britannica word for word with no grammatical errors. In other words it is operationally impossible.

"theoretically possible" is another way of saying "anything is possible until we disprove it". You may as well be arguing that the flying spaghetti monster literally exists.

The most rational explanation is that such a sophisticated biological system was intelligently designed. Your Naturalistic Faith won't allow you to follow the logic.

And we're not even touching on the many examples of cosmological fine-tuning of which a slight variation would not allow life to exist.

Everything points to intelligent design.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519


The difference being that science looks backwards in time to work towards the answers, rather than relying on a poorly translated book that thinks we are only 6,000 years old.

Again you are working on your belief that we have only been around for 6,000 years. When you start dealing with billions of years then random becomes more possible and the concept of 'intelligent design' becomes pointless. The entire universe and everything in it has not stayed the same for the last 6,000 years and it wont look the same in 6,000 years times. Millions of species have come and gone in the last 6,000 years, where is the 'intelligent design' in that?
Anonymous Coward
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
The difference being that science looks backwards in time to work towards the answers, rather than relying on a poorly translated book that thinks we are only 6,000 years old.
 Quoting: SheldonCooper


Science supports intelligent design. Discovery reveals increasingly complex, coordinated, and fine tuned systems that can not be rationally explained as natural accidents.

And Truth existed before scientists began searching for it.


When you start dealing with billions of years then random becomes more possible.
 Quoting: SheldonCooper


Spoken like a true disciple of the religion of Naturalism.

Not for something as complex as life. You may as well be arguing that your god, the Flying Spaghetti Monster actually exists in a giant hamburger on the far side of the universe. Hey, it's "theoretically possible".
Anonymous Coward
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
bump
optimusprimate

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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
Existing isnt just physical, there is zero proof of a magic man being first cause and it fits no 'rational' model.
 Quoting: SheldonCooper


It is perfectly rational to infer that a system of laws originated with an intelligence.

There is zero proof that the physical universe created itself naturally out of nothing and yet you have blind faith in that.

Cells do the complete opposite, they are easily viewable and theoretically creatable as random.
 Quoting: SheldonCooper


They are about as "theoretically creatable" as closing your eyes, mashing a keyboard, and by chance typing out the Encylopedia Britannica word for word with no grammatical errors. In other words it is operationally impossible.

"theoretically possible" is another way of saying "anything is possible until we disprove it". You may as well be arguing that the flying spaghetti monster literally exists.

The most rational explanation is that such a sophisticated biological system was intelligently designed. Your Naturalistic Faith won't allow you to follow the logic.

And we're not even touching on the many examples of cosmological fine-tuning of which a slight variation would not allow life to exist.

Everything points to intelligent design.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519


Intelligent design as sofar as this planet perhaps, but I'm not convinced by the bibles interpretation of creation. I'm still undecided on ancient astronaut theory...
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able, and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?

~Epicurus 33 A.D
:mrchow:
Vinyard (OP)

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12/09/2012 05:36 PM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
bump
Anonymous Coward
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
I think it is always a good idea to ask yourself what you gain from your beliefs. If you gain a lot, and if you lose nothing, I think you should question this kind of belief. It is probably not true.

The atheist believes in no God. They don't believe there is a man in the sky who cares about them, or listens to their prayers and grants their requests. They don't believe they will live forever in paradise. They don't believe they will see their dead relatives, friends, dogs, cats, etc. again in heaven and will live with them forever. So what does the atheists gain from his beliefs? Nothing at all.

The atheist is more concerned with truth. If you are simply believing something so that you can have a false kind of happiness, then you are believing for selfish reasons.

There is another way to put this. PLEASE be honest. Imagine that Jesus was a good man, exactly the way you think he is. He taught people to help the poor, he wanted people to love their enemies and be humble, etc. BUT...he didn't promise you anything after death. You just had to believe in him because he was a good man. Imagine if there were no supernatural stories attached to him, no virgin birth, no raising the dead. Imagine if he was just a good man with a good message. NOW..be honest, do you HONESTLY believe there would be a Christian church today? I think you know there would not be. So chances are very good that atheism is the way to truth.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
1) Atheist: Who created God?

THE CREATER COULD NOT HAVE BEEN CREATED BECAUSE IN THAT CASE HE WOULDN'T BE THE CREATOR!
 Quoting: Vinyard


That doesn't make any sense.

Of course there can be more than one creator...

You are a product of your mother and your father. That's two entities.
Once4All
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12/29/2012 08:50 AM

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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
bump
 Quoting: Vinyard


Interesting thread!

bumpz
John 11:35 Jesus wept.

[link to www.savemenowjesus.com]

Have you given good points today?

EVERYONE who calls upon the LORD JESUS will be saved! [Romans 10:13]


Jesus Christ will return as King of all kings and Lord of all lords. hf
Anonymous Coward
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
I cannot understand (as a Christian) why some believers feel they have to 'prove' something. We are taught to be fishers of men. Ever been fishing? You throw out a little bait, not enough to choke the fish, but just enough to nibble on. The fish comes to you. He takes the hook. That is when you reel him in.(teach him the Word)

We are told to live in a manner that causes people to come to us.

These threads are futile and go against the teachings of Christ.
Anonymous Coward
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12/29/2012 09:37 AM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
Atheists are dependant upon the concept of anti-theism which has always puzzled me.
I do appreciate efforts to include the freedom of both religion and many and varied forms of it as a personal discipline, but not as one form of it namely christianity to dominate all the others.
If a person decides on no religion then that's fine too, keep it to yourself like a grownup.
If you're christian then be a mature christian and perfect yourself without ramming it down everybody's throat.
Religion or lack thereof is a private affair. I've never really respected anyone imposing their sh*t on me, and generally they are trying to dominate everything and everyone.

That's a problem. A huge one.
Anonymous Coward
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12/29/2012 09:56 AM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
Anonymous Coward
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
Jesus said many will cme to me in the end,In 2008, Researcher David Flynn may have uncovered important information related to this legend, the size and scope of which simply surpass comprehension. It involves mammoth traces of intelligence carved in stone and covering hundreds of square miles, possibly the strongest evidence ever detected of prehistoric engineering by those who were known and feared throughout the ancient world as gods—the giant offspring of the Watchers
Anonymous Coward
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12/29/2012 11:34 AM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
Whats your take on this?

God exists, Christsians are wrong.

Why is it that Christians think that proving there is a God would make them right?
Anonymous Coward
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12/29/2012 11:52 AM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
It is really simple...

The bible is wrong, made up non-sense. Why?

Were did the Asians come from? Blacks, Indian (india), Middle Eastern, Persian, Caucasian, pacfic islanders, Native americans? Their are literally dozens of races. They all formed out of a single fellow named NOAH. Not.
An athiest doesn't need to tackle GOD. Just the religion. If the book is obviously wrong... So is the rest!
Mickeyblue
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
One consideration which does not matter as to how atheists think but is fundamental to the understanding of what a Christian should think; Christians forget that God has told us it is n ot we who call on Him it is He who calls us to Him. So none of us who are Christian can pat ourselves on the back, but we can have fault found in us for judging those who have yet to be called by God and blaming them.

Each time we condemn someone we are failing to show love for our neighbor and that was the second of only two commandments Jesus told us are most important to Him.
Fine Material

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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
It's nice to see mature responses for once but I would love to hear a few replies from some atheists and what your opinion is about this. I do make a few good points in my first post right?
 Quoting: Vinyard


No, these are the standard failed apologetics that Christian have used for a long long time. They've been shown to be illogical numerous times.

For example the first one paragraph is one of the silliest. "God has to be perfect, therefore he to exist to be perfect".
Take anything else you can imagine, define it as perfect (a lingual, not physical, construct) and therefore state that is exists.
There is a perfect knife that is so perfect it can cut through a 20 foot boulder with one swipe. That knife has to exist because for it to be perfect it also has to exist. See? lingual nonsense, not real proof.


Then the arguments get silly, not more logical.
"So many people can witness about the presence of God that it simply cannot be made up"
So therefore because all the scientologists witness about the mind control by the alien Xenu it has to be true?

Reality isn't established by popular vote.

Read a lot more, you'll see these arguments are tried over and over and fail over and over.
And referencing Kent Hovind completely destroys any good will being young and naive may have gotten you. He is a federal prisoner after getting caught not paying taxes.He was using the religion shtick to claim a tax exemption.

His type of religious argument, often seen on Youtube, etc, is a special category all it's own: Arguments that they know are illogical and wrong but marketed to believers whom they know are not educated. Spread your vision a little more, you'll see how silly he is.


Last Edited by Fine Material on 12/29/2012 12:25 PM
Anonymous Coward
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
You talk about logic but all the "proof" christians and every other religions think they have is based on faith. There is no concrete, absolute proof that God exists or inexists.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
Friend this thread ...just confirms the bipolar nature of universal reality. Not that it matters or changes how each bipolar humans choose to find, loose, confuse and delude themselves, about both their own lives and mortality and existence.

It amazes me that all our hierarchal doctrines and elitist delusion all claim the same assumption ..that we humans are somehow very important and special things and righteous in some way above everything (except our own corrupt and created hierarchies of course..religion being one of many)

Basically friend ...what we think and do here does not actually matter in the slighted (except of course to us and our lives now). Bipolar Infinity does not have any conscience or require an u;timate designer creator figure or hierarchal leaders and or polar oppositions..these are all delusional human constructs

How can it be that the universe is full of bipolar energy and matter and completely unstable and always cyclically changing (yet according to religious texts and folks was solely created by a polar singularity (all positve, good and loving) called god?...isn't that a contradiction and theorectically impossible ..or is god actually bipolar too?
also strangely come the rules of engagement..iet strangely this god does not comply to the same rules and commandments or morales ..hmmm very interesting

Have you ever considered that your god and devil thingy's are simply the polarised extremes of the self same energy..that we now called bipolar electricity? cos it can bring light and life and ironnically destroy and kill too!

Now tell me friend...do you think electricity really has a soul or even conscience to think, feel or reflect about it's positive and negative actions and interaction..if No then why do you create a religion and institional hierarchal system that claims you need to serve and pray to it for some form of salvation?

Secondlt religion use the world eternal for heaven and hell therefore bipolar reality of good and bad is eternal then. God and the devil can't neutralise eachother..it's that confirmation of bipolar reality too..therefore both ways confirm that all energy, matter and life (i.e. the evolving expressions of these positive and negative forces) are infinite bipolar and get re-used and recycle..but I think without any purpose or meaning or agenda..as I said before these are all human rationales and contructs..Not universal constructs.

Anyway it really doen't matter friend and I think you have right to believe and delude yourself to whatever makes you happy..but truth that's another matter entirely, which humans are not geared to see or accept. This thread and my response only confirms this point
 Quoting: humanitech 15457898


In your humble opinion...
Anonymous Coward
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
Not this again

Atheism is the lack of belief in a Deity. It has nothing to do with disproving the existence of God. Any atheist that spends his life disproving god is anti god, not just an atheist. I don't believe in Santa Claus, but does that make me anti Santa?

I would never tell a Christian or a Muslim etc. that they are wrong to believe in God, just as I hope they would not force their beliefs onto me. People just need to learn to be more accepting and tolerant and that's basically it.

1) Be excellent to each other
2) Party on

That's all you need to know.
Drummy
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
"Essentially, I realized that to stay an atheist, I would have to believe that nothing produces everything; non-life produces life; randomness produces fine-tuning; chaos produces information; unconsciousness produces consciousness; and non-reason produces reason. Those leaps of faith were simply too big for me to take, especially in light of the affirmative case for God's existence and Jesus' resurrection (and, hence, his divinity). In other words, in my assessment the Christian worldview accounted for the totality of the evidence much better than the atheistic worldview."

Lee Strobel, former Atheist
Drummy
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
[link to www.msny.org]

A former atheist scientist who was assigned to study the shroud of Tourin, which upon looking at all the scientific evidence, realized that Jesus was who he said he was, the resurrection absolutely happened, and the only response is to turn our lives to Jesus
geminilion
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
I don't get the arguing, etc. Why can't we just accept that people have different opinions, religions, beliefs, etc.???

I don't feel the need to ask a Christian or a Jewish person why they believe. I have my own beliefs and it doesn't bother me is someone is an atheist or prays to Elvis.

In the end it's none of my business and doesn't effect my life whatsoever. I don't mind discussing religion (or lack of) but it's the debating that bothers me.

People should be able to live their lives and believe what they want to without having to explain or defend their positions.

Last Edited by geminilion on 12/29/2012 01:08 PM
..."The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you choose, what you think, and what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny ... it is the light that guides your way."
Heraclitus
Anonymous Coward
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
God is all that matters.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
Are you the beast, are you sleeping with the beast? ARE YOU THE FUTURE ANTICHRIST or the big 666, or are you just a normal boring teenager.


COME SEE IF YOUR NAME CALCULATES 666

The keywords for google are: "ANTICHRIST CALCULATOR"

This is the best way to help you remember how to find it without a link.

devil6

[link to www.google.com]




.
Frater

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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
CONTENTS:

1) Atheist: Who created God?

God is uncreated, that is their is no origin, God is and truly cannot be explained.

2) Atheist: God does not exist?

Very silly to deny creation, ok you don't exist either LOL.

3) Atheist: The existence of God is illogical!

Yes it is and no it isn't.

4) Atheist: Can God create a rock...

God has obviously.

5) Atheist: Prove God!

God is all around us and in us, everything that is, is part of God. Better go get your eyes and ears checked.

6) Atheist: I only believe in what I can see and touch.

This IS reasonable and it's important to be honest. Perhaps someday you will be able to understand what you are seeing and touching everyday I hope.

7) God is spiritual and is proved with spiritual methods.

God is everything, nothing is not of God and everything is a miracle.

8) Logical proof of God.

The enormity and complexity of all their is, is far to grand and amazing to have just happened by chance.

9) Einstein and Strindberg. Wise men!

Yes they were :)

LVX,

Frater
LVX!
Prostetnik

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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
This thread seems to be assuming that Christianity and atheism are "opposites" with one being the antitheses of the other. But there are many other choices of gods than are offered by either of these ideas. As a kid the Jesus god was not even a major consideration among the various gods offered me as a choice. The fact that someone does not see the Jesus god as important does not in and of itself make them an atheist. Some of my family chose to join the Mohamed worship cult but a majority stayed with our traditional gods. Even though none of them belong to the Jesus cults, they are not atheists.
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
"Essentially, I realized that to stay an atheist, I would have to believe that nothing produces everything; non-life produces life; randomness produces fine-tuning; chaos produces information; unconsciousness produces consciousness; and non-reason produces reason. Those leaps of faith were simply too big for me to take, especially in light of the affirmative case for God's existence and Jesus' resurrection (and, hence, his divinity). In other words, in my assessment the Christian worldview accounted for the totality of the evidence much better than the atheistic worldview."

Lee Strobel, former Atheist
 Quoting: Drummy 29358702

Strobel's arguments would only apply to Christians. First off, no one knows if there ever was a man named Jesus who walked the earth. There is absolutely no proof he existed. If someone as magnificent as Jesus supposedly lived, don't you think SOMEONE would have recorded his exact birthday? And if hundreds of people supposedly witnessed his resurrection, don't you think some historian would have accurately recorded that date? Yet we use old pagan dates to celebrate the birthday and death day of Jesus.

Why don't we find Jesus in the history books in which our children are taught? It is simply because most people understand that Jesus is a myth, the SUN of God, the SUN who gives light to the world. His entire story is based on pagan mythology and astrology. There were many different rising and dying savior gods before him.

And by simple common sense, you KNOW that no man was born of a virgin. This is scientifically impossible. ANd you know it is impossible for someone to rise up from the dead after being in the grave for days. These kinds of stories are common in mythology but they are not TRUE.

Evolution explains exactly how we got here. That is why it is a difficult course in college. We don't find creationism taught in college because that is not how we got here. Evolutionary biology is a theory, but so is the theory of gravity. Theories have much study behind them from people whose only concern isn't how they can convince themselves that they will live forever. And that is the sole purpose of religion. If you didn't have this false hope that you might live forever, you would discard your religion quickly and never turn back to it again. THINK about it and you will know this is true.

Stroebel says he can't believe that nothing produces everything. But where did God (who is nothing) come from? You can't just imagine that an invisible "man" in the sky existed. Doesn't it make more sense to say that the universe always existed? If you cannot pinpoint exactly who created God (everything has to have a creator, according to the Christian) than you cannot say that God created the world and the universe. You have to define exactly what this God (and who this God) is. If you can't do that, then there is no reason why you should believe in creationism. If you only believe in your religion because you need to have that hope that you will live forever, you are believing for the wrong reasons. TRUTH should be more important to you, if you are an adult.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
Can't we just checkmark the box that says "Don't care/see how it matters" and move on with our lives instead of arguing?

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