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A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)

 
Not Anonymous Coward

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05/05/2012 01:11 AM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
:remover:
Anonymous Coward
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05/05/2012 01:13 AM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
I think most Christians are delving too deeply into the why's of Atheism.

Have you ever thought that it might be as simple as this:
:tp123:

With as many "illogical" assumptions as are made here about Atheists, I wonder why Christian's feel so threatened?

Do you not understand that Atheists could list just as many questions regarding why Christian's would believe?

I honestly think it's time that both groups move on and find better subjects to ponder.

Neither side is going to convince the other of their rightness so let's agree to disagree.

I belong to neither side but I do think that tolerance is in order for all beliefs.

If you want respect you must give it.

I think the best way we can all come to an understanding is to stop posting these anti christian anti atheist anti etc threads.

Also if you are Christian do not come to another's thread and start shoving your belief down their throats when you knew from the title that the thread wasn't for you.

Also Atheists and other groups do not go to a Christian only thread to start shit either.

I have done it myself for my own reasons but honestly where does it get us?

I'm not going to convert a Christian against their beliefs and they are not going to convert me either.

:lkjhgcvj:
 Quoting: Awake but dreaming


clappa
Vinyard (OP)

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05/05/2012 07:22 AM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
WoW... this is truly awesome work!


Thanks for the wonderful reading.



hf
 Quoting: Once4All


Thanks for reading my brother! hf
Vinyard (OP)

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05/05/2012 08:11 AM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
Thank you for your input. I will try and answer this quickly.
-----------------------------
I think most Christians are delving too deeply into the why's of Atheism.

This is very different from a Christian to another. Some Christians never touch the subject of atheism and some Christians hold seminars about the subject. The reason why I made this thread was because I wanted to give answers to some of the stuff atheists say about the non-existence of God. The stuff I cover in the first post is what I hear my real life friends say all the time. Whenever they bring up the subject of religion/God they always tell me that it's not logical for God to exist and that he, as everything else, must have been created. I hear the same stuff all the time and I simply wanted to answer some of those assumptions by making this thread and hopefully make people think. Because it's not as easy as saying "It's illogical for God to exist". The true answer is way deeper.

With as many "illogical" assumptions as are made here about Atheists, I wonder why Christian's feel so threatened?

You might get the impression that I feel threatened but I really don't. I live a great life with the Lord and I don't care what other people think of my beliefs. I made this thread because I really feel like I'm doing my duty as a Christian, to spread the word about Christ. This is simply me spreading the word and answering some stuff atheists say. It's not my duty to convert atheists, it's my duty to spread the word about Jesus Christ and I will leave the conversion to the Lord. Atheists can choose to read my thread or ignore it.

Do you not understand that Atheists could list just as many questions regarding why Christian's would believe?

Yes, I understand that and I hope I will be able to answer some of those statements.

I honestly think it's time that both groups move on and find better subjects to ponder.

You are correct. There are many issues in this world which are important. Wars, corruption, starvation etc etc. The list can go on and on. For Christians these are very important matters and there are thousands and thousands of Christians who go into war zones and help starving people, give them medicine etc etc. But the absolutely MOST important thing for a Christian is what happens to our soul and what happens to other peoples' souls. We believe you will go to either one of two places, where one of these two is a horrible horrible place. The most important thing I care about as a Christian is my soul and I will do anything to make sure it ends up in the right place. I hope people can understand this and that we work hard to spread the word of salvation.

Neither side is going to convince the other of their rightness so let's agree to disagree.

I completely agree with you. It is VERY hard for a Christian to convince an atheist to convert and it's very hard for an atheist to convince a Christian to convert. But when you think about it, many people convert to Christianity. Maybe they weren't "hardcore" atheists but they still had enough faith to convert. My friend was a, what I call, hardcore atheist. I mean, he really hated religion. But I talked to him about Jesus Christ, salvation and the Bible and how I can feel the presence of God and how my "hole" in my body is now filled. He actually listens to me and he told him that I was a really nice Christian. He doesn't even believe in evolution/big bang any longer. It only took me 1 year but now he's not an atheist any longer.

I belong to neither side but I do think that tolerance is in order for all beliefs.

If you want respect you must give it.

Definitely. I try to show respect to atheists in this thread.

I think the best way we can all come to an understanding is to stop posting these anti christian anti atheist anti etc threads.

There are many anti-Christian threads and anti-atheist threads here on GLP. But this thread of mine is neither. It's not an anti-atheist thread, more like answering questions and statements atheists make.

Also if you are Christian do not come to another's thread and start shoving your belief down their throats when you knew from the title that the thread wasn't for you.

I agree. There are better ways to spread the word of the Lord so that's one of the reasons why I made this thread. This is a thread for everyone! Christians are welcome here and atheists can also post if they have something nice to say or if they want to start a discussion.

Also Atheists and other groups do not go to a Christian only thread to start shit either.

I've been here on GLP for over a year now and I see atheists posting VERY disrespectul things in Christian threads. The things they say to us are very harsh. They definitely visit Christian threads on a regular basics only to be mean and cruel.

I have done it myself for my own reasons but honestly where does it get us?

I get your point. It doesn't lead us anywhere to start a big fight and post mean stuff.

I'm not going to convert a Christian against their beliefs and they are not going to convert me either.

I understand that. However, as I said earlier, we spread the word, we do not convert. That's up to each individual and the work of the Lord. People can choose to listen to us, or ignore us. We're not forcing our beliefs down peoples' throats, although you might get that impression. Spreading the word, that's what we do :D

I hope I could make a few things clear to you. May I just ask you what you believe in? You stated you weren't a Christian but not an atheist either. Just interested in wht you believe in if you're willing to share that with me :D

:lkjhgcvj:
 Quoting: Awake but dreaming

Once4All
The Truth Is Clear To Everyone!

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05/05/2012 08:18 AM

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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
WoW... this is truly awesome work!


Thanks for the wonderful reading.



hf
 Quoting: Once4All


Thanks for reading my brother! hf
 Quoting: Vinyard


I'm a teacher. This is really good thinking and writing.

Teaching is certainly one of the Gifts the Holy Spirit has given you. Makes me wonder what other Gifts you have and if the Holy Spirit has a special call on your life to proclaim the gospel!


afro
John 11:35 Jesus wept.

[link to www.savemenowjesus.com]

Have you given good points today?

EVERYONE who calls upon the LORD JESUS will be saved! [Romans 10:13]


Jesus Christ will return as King of all kings and Lord of all lords. hf
xxx
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05/05/2012 08:34 AM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
simple fact:
yhwh ain't god.
Anonymous Coward
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05/05/2012 08:37 AM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
simple fact:
yhwh ain't god.
 Quoting: xxx 15557640


but who is he? a space traveler?
Vinyard (OP)

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05/05/2012 08:49 AM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
Teaching is certainly one of the Gifts the Holy Spirit has given you. Makes me wonder what other Gifts you have and if the Holy Spirit has a special call on your life to proclaim the gospel!
 Quoting: Once4All


Wow, thanks. :D Do you recommend being baptized in the Holy Spirit? I've heard much about it and I believe you talk about it on your website. Is baptism in the Holy Spirit scriptual?

Last Edited by Marlo Stanfield on 05/05/2012 08:53 AM
KlLLUMINATI

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05/05/2012 08:52 AM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
simple fact:
yhwh ain't god.
 Quoting: xxx 15557640


Can you show this "fact" as you put it ?
She just goes a little mad sometimes. We all go a little mad sometimes. Haven't you?
-Norman Bates

I think that rich people should live like poor people, and poor people should live like rich people, and change every week....
-Tupac Shakur

Somebody help me, tell me where to go from here cause even Thugs cry, but do the Lord care?
-Tupac Shakur

I don't have no fear of death. My only fear is coming back reincarnated.
-Tupac Shakur

I believe in human beings, and that all human beings should be respected as such, regardless of their color.
-Malcolm X

A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything.
-Malcolm X

When there’s no more room in Hell, the dead will walk the Earth.
-Dawn of the Dead

What an excellent day for an exorcism.
-The Exorcist
Wingedlion

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05/05/2012 08:52 AM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
It always amazes me how that Atheist feel that they are somehow superior in knowledge and reasoning than those of faith when the Bible specifically targets the unbeliever and calls him a "Fool". Another aspect of this regarding biblical prophecy also states that in the last days men will be "ever increasing in knowledge, but never coming to the knowledge of the truth."

Most Atheist reject the notion of God not on the basis of evidence but upon the moral code or Law of the Christian God. In other words, they just do not want anyone telling them what to do. Just like a rebellious child, they take the plight of the fallen nature of man to it's extreme and make themselves god in His place.

Just look at evolution...all it does is replace the creator with themselves. In their seeming superior reasoning, they still cannot figure out how the gases and elements of the big bang came into being, or how that matter is fixed and solid. Science tells us that all matter is nothing but photons and electromagnetic energy; and they cannot figure how things are held together. The mathmatical probibility of the elements coming together to create all we know as our universe is one with 18 zero's in back of it, yet they will place their faith in such evidence of inprobability, rather than come to a logical conclusion that something bigger and higher than themselves are holding it all together. They are fools.
"Glory is what happens when faith overcomes adversity."
Hamsterstyle
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05/05/2012 08:53 AM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
#1 - I see you ASSUME god is a male entity. You refer to god as being a "He." In case you didn't know, Creation CANNOT exist with only male energy. For all of Creation to exist, there must be BOTH male AND female energy.

2 - Why is it that you insist on lumping all non-believers (anyone who disagrees with your religious beliefs) in the same group? You make no distinction between Spiritualists and Atheists. You know there is a HUGE difference, right?

3 - I agree that the existence of your Buy-Bull god as being the Infinite First Consciousness/ Unconditional Love/Source of all Creation, as totally, 100% illogical!! YOUR biblical god CANNOT possibly be all those things. YOUR Buy-Bull god calls HIMSELF (notice I made it very clear this is a "HE!!") a "MAN OF WAR." A "man" is masculine and "war" is as far away from LOVE as you can get.

4 - Here you go again. You claim the Source of all Creation is a "HE." PROVE IT!!

5 - You dare call me an atheist because I do not accept your Buy-Bull god as the True Infinite First Consciousness. FYI, `My`god appears to me in everything that is known as Nature. Mother Nature in all Her spender and awesome power is all I need to know there is an Infinite First Consciousness - call it Unconditional Love if you like.

6 - Did you make that one up? Most intelligent people are very much aware of the fact that only 4% of reality can be `seen`with the naked eye. The other 96% is known as dark or black energy (not Evil, just invisible to the naked eye).

7 - More nonsense about a `HE`being the Creator of all that is. NONSENSE!! You need BOTH male AND female energy for Creation to exist.

8 - The `logical proof`as you call it, has nothing to do with your Buy-Bull fraudulent god.

9 - Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind. Einstein

I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it. (Albert Einstein, 1954)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13867753


- You need to actually read the original post.

- #1 The thread title alone distinguishes that God being discussed, is the God of the Chirstians; therefore is male. And the original question itself pertains to a created god.

- #2 Again, the demographics being discussed are outlined in the title. As to the actual question; the conclusive nature of unbelief.

-#3 And again, the discussion is from a particular perspective; the Christian God. And yet your response is one of illogic; men are incable of love and kindness and are simply of and for war, and in turn God is of that same (described) nature.

-#4 Once again, the title outlines the currency used in this discussion. The question itself pertains to the power, limited or unlimited, of God.

-#5 You fail at the initial demographic; A Christain's opinion of Atheist's arguments. And the argument in question is proof.

-#6 O.k. One point for addressing the question directly.

-#7 Perhaps I'm being pedantic, but once again a particular point of view is being discussed. (In response; Do lifeforms of asexual nature have both male and female components or are they considered a seperate sex-type altogether? - I don't actually know the answer.)

-#8 By reading your post, I'm assuming mother nature provides all. The problem is, the original post was broken into four parts. One being of personal experience; which was dismissed and yet it is the pinnacle of both believer and sceptic. (One must study all the evidence before making a conclusion.)

-#9 "The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education." Albert Einstein


- As far as the original post/thread; everyone is different and you'll never have a cookie-cut template when dealing with a believer of non-believer.


But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
KlLLUMINATI

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05/05/2012 08:54 AM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
It always amazes me how that Atheist feel that they are somehow superior in knowledge and reasoning than those of faith when the Bible specifically targets the unbeliever and calls him a "Fool". Another aspect of this regarding biblical prophecy also states that in the last days men will be "ever increasing in knowledge, but never coming to the knowledge of the truth."

Most Atheist reject the notion of God not on the basis of evidence but upon the moral code or Law of the Christian God. In other words, they just do not want anyone telling them what to do. Just like a rebellious child, they take the plight of the fallen nature of man to it's extreme and make themselves god in His place.

Just look at evolution...all it does is replace the creator with themselves. In their seeming superior reasoning, they still cannot figure out how the gases and elements of the big bang came into being, or how that matter is fixed and solid. Science tells us that all matter is nothing but photons and electromagnetic energy; and they cannot figure how things are held together. The mathmatical probibility of the elements coming together to create all we know as our universe is one with 18 zero's in back of it, yet they will place their faith in such evidence of inprobability, rather than come to a logical conclusion that something bigger and higher than themselves are holding it all together. They are fools.
 Quoting: Wingedlion


Dont point that out because you cant make them look foolish by the very definition of Atheism alone.
She just goes a little mad sometimes. We all go a little mad sometimes. Haven't you?
-Norman Bates

I think that rich people should live like poor people, and poor people should live like rich people, and change every week....
-Tupac Shakur

Somebody help me, tell me where to go from here cause even Thugs cry, but do the Lord care?
-Tupac Shakur

I don't have no fear of death. My only fear is coming back reincarnated.
-Tupac Shakur

I believe in human beings, and that all human beings should be respected as such, regardless of their color.
-Malcolm X

A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything.
-Malcolm X

When there’s no more room in Hell, the dead will walk the Earth.
-Dawn of the Dead

What an excellent day for an exorcism.
-The Exorcist
Anonymous Coward
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05/05/2012 09:49 AM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
simple fact:
yhwh ain't god.
 Quoting: xxx 15557640


Can you show this "fact" as you put it ?
 Quoting: KlLLUMINATI


KlLLUMINATI, YHWH is NOT the Infinite First consciousness, Unconditional Love, the Source of all Creation, because that is a form of energy. Energy is not a "physical" thing with a gender. YHWH claims "HE" (gender) is a "MAN" (physical male [gender again]) of "War" (nothing to do with love). See Exod. 15:3
Yes, YHWH is/was one of the pantheon of gods, but he was NOT the Source of ALL Creation. Here is a list of your 10 gods of the middle east.

[link to www.godchecker.com]
Anonymous Coward
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05/05/2012 09:54 AM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
WoW... this is truly awesome work!


Thanks for the wonderful reading.



hf
 Quoting: Once4All


Thanks for reading my brother! hf
 Quoting: Vinyard


I'm a teacher. This is really good thinking and writing.

Teaching is certainly one of the Gifts the Holy Spirit has given you. Makes me wonder what other Gifts you have and if the Holy Spirit has a special call on your life to proclaim the gospel!


afro
 Quoting: Once4All


My youngest son spent an awful lot of time sitting in the hallway in the church basement where Sunday school was held. Why? Because he asked questions the "teachers" could not answer. Instead of telling my son they did not know the answer but would try and find the answer for him, they decided to sit in the hallway was the right way to approach the problem. I say "problem" because that's exactly what his questions posed to them - a problem. One they could not find a solution to other than punishing him for daring to question the dogma that was attempted to being shoved down his throat.
KlLLUMINATI

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05/05/2012 09:55 AM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
simple fact:
yhwh ain't god.
 Quoting: xxx 15557640


Can you show this "fact" as you put it ?
 Quoting: KlLLUMINATI


KlLLUMINATI, YHWH is NOT the Infinite First consciousness, Unconditional Love, the Source of all Creation, because that is a form of energy. Energy is not a "physical" thing with a gender. YHWH claims "HE" (gender) is a "MAN" (physical male [gender again]) of "War" (nothing to do with love). See Exod. 15:3
Yes, YHWH is/was one of the pantheon of gods, but he was NOT the Source of ALL Creation. Here is a list of your 10 gods of the middle east.

[link to www.godchecker.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13867753


What you call energy I call God. The bible says God is not male or female hes made us male and female in his image.
She just goes a little mad sometimes. We all go a little mad sometimes. Haven't you?
-Norman Bates

I think that rich people should live like poor people, and poor people should live like rich people, and change every week....
-Tupac Shakur

Somebody help me, tell me where to go from here cause even Thugs cry, but do the Lord care?
-Tupac Shakur

I don't have no fear of death. My only fear is coming back reincarnated.
-Tupac Shakur

I believe in human beings, and that all human beings should be respected as such, regardless of their color.
-Malcolm X

A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything.
-Malcolm X

When there’s no more room in Hell, the dead will walk the Earth.
-Dawn of the Dead

What an excellent day for an exorcism.
-The Exorcist
KlLLUMINATI

User ID: 11546392
United States
05/05/2012 09:57 AM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
WoW... this is truly awesome work!


Thanks for the wonderful reading.



hf
 Quoting: Once4All


Thanks for reading my brother! hf
 Quoting: Vinyard


I'm a teacher. This is really good thinking and writing.

Teaching is certainly one of the Gifts the Holy Spirit has given you. Makes me wonder what other Gifts you have and if the Holy Spirit has a special call on your life to proclaim the gospel!


afro
 Quoting: Once4All


My youngest son spent an awful lot of time sitting in the hallway in the church basement where Sunday school was held. Why? Because he asked questions the "teachers" could not answer. Instead of telling my son they did not know the answer but would try and find the answer for him, they decided to sit in the hallway was the right way to approach the problem. I say "problem" because that's exactly what his questions posed to them - a problem. One they could not find a solution to other than punishing him for daring to question the dogma that was attempted to being shoved down his throat.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13867753


Thats child abuse those people do not need to watch kids ever again and as far as that its okay to say I do not know. You cant learn if you think your always right.
She just goes a little mad sometimes. We all go a little mad sometimes. Haven't you?
-Norman Bates

I think that rich people should live like poor people, and poor people should live like rich people, and change every week....
-Tupac Shakur

Somebody help me, tell me where to go from here cause even Thugs cry, but do the Lord care?
-Tupac Shakur

I don't have no fear of death. My only fear is coming back reincarnated.
-Tupac Shakur

I believe in human beings, and that all human beings should be respected as such, regardless of their color.
-Malcolm X

A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything.
-Malcolm X

When there’s no more room in Hell, the dead will walk the Earth.
-Dawn of the Dead

What an excellent day for an exorcism.
-The Exorcist
Alrighty

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05/05/2012 10:00 AM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
Friend this thread ...just confirms the bipolar nature of universal reality. Not that it matters or changes how each bipolar humans choose to find, loose, confuse and delude themselves, about both their own lives and mortality and existence.

It amazes me that all our hierarchal doctrines and elitist delusion all claim the same assumption ..that we humans are somehow very important and special things and righteous in some way above everything (except our own corrupt and created hierarchies of course..religion being one of many)

Basically friend ...what we think and do here does not actually matter in the slighted (except of course to us and our lives now). Bipolar Infinity does not have any conscience or require an u;timate designer creator figure or hierarchal leaders and or polar oppositions..these are all delusional human constructs

How can it be that the universe is full of bipolar energy and matter and completely unstable and always cyclically changing (yet according to religious texts and folks was solely created by a polar singularity (all positve, good and loving) called god?...isn't that a contradiction and theorectically impossible ..or is god actually bipolar too?
also strangely come the rules of engagement..iet strangely this god does not comply to the same rules and commandments or morales ..hmmm very interesting

Have you ever considered that your god and devil thingy's are simply the polarised extremes of the self same energy..that we now called bipolar electricity? cos it can bring light and life and ironnically destroy and kill too!

Now tell me friend...do you think electricity really has a soul or even conscience to think, feel or reflect about it's positive and negative actions and interaction..if No then why do you create a religion and institional hierarchal system that claims you need to serve and pray to it for some form of salvation?

Secondlt religion use the world eternal for heaven and hell therefore bipolar reality of good and bad is eternal then. God and the devil can't neutralise eachother..it's that confirmation of bipolar reality too..therefore both ways confirm that all energy, matter and life (i.e. the evolving expressions of these positive and negative forces) are infinite bipolar and get re-used and recycle..but I think without any purpose or meaning or agenda..as I said before these are all human rationales and contructs..Not universal constructs.

Anyway it really doen't matter friend and I think you have right to believe and delude yourself to whatever makes you happy..but truth that's another matter entirely, which humans are not geared to see or accept. This thread and my response only confirms this point
 Quoting: humanitech 15457898


rockon
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05/05/2012 10:00 AM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
I'm an atheist. The statements in the OP don't reflect my views. I'm not interested in having a debate, but for those who would like to understand atheism better (or at least my view of atheism; it's certainly not the only one), I offer the following:

1) Atheist: Who created God?

It doesn't make any sense to me to ask who created something that doesn't exist.

A word about what the "universe" is: it's everything that exists, but the concept says nothing about how it's structured (dimensions, branes, etc). Which means, the universe has always existed. It had no beginning and will have no end; it does not need a creator. To say a creator exists outside the universe is to say it exists outside of existence--which is a contradiction.

2) Atheist: God does not exist?

Through the wonderful power of the human mind, I don't need to know everything to know something doesn't exist. I haven't seen every square ever created, but I know none of them have only three sides. I haven't known every man ever born, but I know they are all mortal. Humans are capable of understanding the world around us, and one thing we can say for sure is that contradictions can't exist.

3) Atheist: The existence of God is illogical!

Human existence is perfectly logical. We may not understand each and every step for how life evolved and how we got here, but so what? I'm willing to live with some uncertainty, because I know I have the capability to understand.

When I look at a flower or a tree or a human, what I see is the awesomeness of what has happened as a result billions of years of evolution; of trial-and-error at the molecular level on such an immense scale. That's much more inspiring to me than the idea that it was designed by some all-powerful being.

4) Atheist: Can God create a rock...

I would never say this. Something that doesn't exist can't create anything.

5) Atheist: Prove God!

I would never ask this. You can't prove something that doesn't exist.

6) Atheist: I only believe in what I can see and touch.

How can you possibly *know* that God exists "outside of time" or "outside of the universe"?

The only way humans know anything about the world around us is through our senses. We then integrate and process those sensory inputs into ideas and concepts (which we can then process into other ideas). Ideas and other things that I can't see or touch do exist; they're real, and I "believe in them."

When it comes down to it, the only way to believe in something that doesn't exist is either from a cultural base ("church is fun"), or thorough conditioning (usually starting in childhood), or based on feeling; on emotion. The truth is that it's impossible to know anything about the world based on emotion. Emotions are a response, a secondary, not a primary. I believe the idea that you can learn things about the world through emotion is the fundamental place that many atheists and religionists differ.

7) God is spiritual and is proved with spiritual methods.

How do you know about other spiritual things? As I said above, the only way to know anything is by processing your sensory inputs using your mind. We can know and understand many "spiritual" things with material methods--things like the nature of love and happiness, for example.

8) Logical proof of God.

Everything you described here also has an explanation that does not require supernatural intervention.

What humans "want" or "need" has no bearing on how the universe works. It does, however, influence the structure of our belief systems.

BTW, the word "supernatural" is a contradiction. Everything that exists is part of nature, and is therefore natural.

9) Einstein and Strindberg. Wise men!

Arguments from authority mean nothing to me.
Once4All
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05/05/2012 10:02 AM

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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
Teaching is certainly one of the Gifts the Holy Spirit has given you. Makes me wonder what other Gifts you have and if the Holy Spirit has a special call on your life to proclaim the gospel!
 Quoting: Once4All


Wow, thanks. :D Do you recommend being baptized in the Holy Spirit? I've heard much about it and I believe you talk about it on your website. Is baptism in the Holy Spirit scriptual?
 Quoting: Vinyard


Yes, pursue being baptized by the Holy Spirit. This is a huge mistake many 'good' christians make. They think just because they are born again they are filled with the Holy Spirit and they are not! That is what the Pentacostal Church is all about.... realizing there is more! [I don't belong to that church i'm just saying...]

Yes, read my website for more info. I have a baptism page and on my "Visions" page i talk about being Baptized in the Holy Spirit. Ask and you shall receive...Seek and you shall find.

I will try to catch up to you later! Must go for now!!!
John 11:35 Jesus wept.

[link to www.savemenowjesus.com]

Have you given good points today?

EVERYONE who calls upon the LORD JESUS will be saved! [Romans 10:13]


Jesus Christ will return as King of all kings and Lord of all lords. hf
Anonymous Coward
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
CONTENTS:

1) Atheist: Who created God?

Therein Christians are faced with, yet, another paradox. If got, by your definition, is uncreated then he is infinitely whole or, logically, non-existent.

If a creator God is timeless then our world would be timeless to. At what point did God decide to create us? By Christian "logic" the Universe would have had to come into existence instantaneously with the creator God. Without there our no moments.


2) Atheist: God does not exist?

Before you argue whether God does or does not exist you must look at the evidence of his, her, or its, existence being, in anyway, divine or supernatural.

Even if the fables are somewhat true it is highly unliked that YAHWEH was God. More plausible for him to have been a superhuman rather than supernatural. If we look at the grand scheme of things we too can be considered Gods. We have created a new dimension with our own technology (cyber-space) and are merely years from creating self-aware, evolving, AI. Our brains work like computers therefore you could consider us artificial evolving inteligence.

Then, even after taking this into consideration, if you are still religious you must then ask yourself "am I a theist or a deist." If the creator God does exist then there is more evidence to suggest that he does not intervine or care about his own creation. This would also be more logical.

3) Atheist: The existence of God is illogical!

The existence of a supernatural being is illogical. The existence of ONE divine ruler being is improbable, almost impossible.

4) Atheist: Can God create a rock...

Don't get your point.

5) Atheist: Prove God!

If you are making the claims that there is a God the burden of proof is on you. Even today, the only evidence used in arguments of God's existence has been pockets of scientific ignorance. Things we do not understand should never resemble proof of God's existence.

This theory is called God of the Gaps. Look it up.

6) Atheist: I only believe in what I can see and touch.

What nonsense. See and touch? I believe my great, great, grandfather existed because there is evidence to suggest he existed.

I agree with the theory that there are nanoscopic particles that work as the glue to existence. I cannot see this with my naked eye but scientific evidence suggests such a thing exists.

7) God is spiritual and is proved with spiritual methods.

Witchcraft is magic and is proved with magical methods.

Look at the science behind what you call spiritual and you might find yourself a little more enlightened.

Spirituallity is a combination of quantum science and psychology.

8) Logical proof of God.

There three words should never be used in one sentence.

9) Einstein and Strindberg. Wise men!

Einstein was NOT a theist. He had made countless statements about his ideas of intelligent design.


He used the word God as a medium in which to communicate the unknown. He is what you call a pantheistic atheist.

Many American universities condemned any teachings of Einstein because they believed they were satanic. Also, Einstein received death threats and was even sentenced to execution for blasphemy if he'd ever set foot on U.S soil.

Please. PLEASE. Do your research before making claims like this.


1) Atheist: Who created God?

I hear this argument all the time! Atheist use this argument frequently to disprove the existence of God. I understand the argument, I do, but there are many flaws. First of all, the question "who created God?" ASSUMES that God is limited. It assumes that God has a beginning and will therefor have an end. But the God of the Bible doesn't have a limit, He doesn't have a beginning and an end. God was never created because He does not consist of the unaware created matter, but by the aware eternal spiritual energy. Besides, God can't have been created by someone else, because God by definition is FIRST, the reason of all cause! God was first. How on Earth's name can the first one be created? That's like asking "what letter comes before A?".

THE CREATER COULD NOT HAVE BEEN CREATED BECAUSE IN THAT CASE HE WOULDN'T BE THE CREATOR!

God is outside of His Creation. He is outside of our universe. God created time, space and matter and God is OUTSIDE of all that. There is no time where God is, only eternity. God simply just is. He hasn't been created. And strangely enough, the atheist never ask themself the same question about Big Bang. Where did Big Bang come from? Big Bang, according to the text books, created everything in the universe. It therefor created time, space and matter as well. Which came first? Without space, where do you put matter? Without time, WHEN do you put matter? You see how time, space and matter must have been created at the EXACT same time? Big Bang teaches us that everything created itself out of absolutely nothing. Let me ask you this. How did Big Bang explode? Where did the energy for this explosion come from? Out of nowhere? Where did time, space and matter come from? Out of nowhere? For some reason, people really believe Big Bang occured. People seriously believe that everything in existence created itself out of absolutely nothing.

The universe must have an original cause!
There has to be a first original cause otherwise the universe wouldn't exist. Matter can't be the first cause becase life, awareness and intelligence can simply not plop out of lifeless matter. Matter cannot have created itself. To believe that matter is the original cause of the universe is the same as believing that mud is the cause of the crock. By practical experience every human knows that there's NOTHING which can create itself out of nothing. Mud had a creator. Believing that something can create itself is a stupid fable and only narrow minded atheists will believe that. (Sorry for being a tad harsh but it's true)

Not believing in an original first cause which created our universe is as stupid as believing that everything we see around us came out of nothingness.
God is in His original spiritual shape forever in the spiritual world, in God's kingdom, which was never created and will never be gone. Humans are just by nature greedy and full of pride. We want to be God's ourselves, we want to follow our own rules. The suffering in this world is a wake up call for all of us to realize that we do not belong here in this world full of evil of pain.
_____________________________________________________________​___

2) Atheist: God does not exist!

That is a definite assumption, an absolute. Only someone who's all knowing can come with definite assumptions like that. Are you all knowing? By saying something like that you sure make it seem like that. In that case, you're God! Because you know EVERYTHING there is!
But no man knows everything, we know very little in ratio to what there is to know. But let's just assume for one moment that you know 50% of everything. That's a lot of knowledge. What if God exists on the other side, the other 50%?
_____________________________________________________________​___

3) Atheist: The existence of God is illogical.

If you think that it's illogical for God to exist, did you ever stop to think the same thing about yourself? Do you think it's logial for you to exist? Why is your own existence more logial than God's? To believe that our own existence came about without an existing cause is the same as believing that sunrays can exist without the sun.
_____________________________________________________________​___

4) Atheist: Can God create a rock so heavy He cannot lift it Himself? And if he can't lift it, he's not almighty.

God is so almighty that He can expand Himself in two seperate shapes in which he lifts the rock in one, and does not lift the rock in the other shape. Besides, God is infinitely strong so it's a piece of cake for Him to lift a rock which is infinitely heavy.
If I would ask you to draw a square triangle what would you do? Would you take out your pencil and draw one? No you wouldn't because you know that a triangle per definition has three sides, not four. To draw a "square triangle" says nothing about your ability to draw triangles (or squares) because a "square triangle" is simply a nonsense expression I made up by puttin two words together. A rock so heavy no one can lift it is the same nonsense expression because a rock is per definition an object with a weight and can always be lifted assuming you're strong enough. To talk about a "rock to heavy for anyone to lift" is just as much nonsense as a square triangle. The "argument" is not a proper argument against God or his Almightyness, it's just a game with words. It's a logical contradiction, which is indeed pretty funny, but it does not hold up as an argument.
_____________________________________________________________​___

5) Atheist: Prove God!

Atheists always demand God to appear Himself in front of their eyes before they will start believing. This is simply pride and God does not answer prideful challenges just as much as the President of USA would pay you a visit without you giving him any worthy qualifications which caught his attention. Ask yourself this: Do you, as an atheist, deserve to have a personal visit by the Almighty? What are your qualifications? When you can't even get the President of USA to pay you a visit, what makes you think God would appear in His all Greatness in front of your very eyes? It's the opposite. Atheists despise God, they spit on Him and do not want to get rid of their illusion that God does not exist. They want it to stay that way and because God does not interfere with the free will, the atheist will never feel the presence of God until he change his attitude. For the atheist, God will prove His existence when it's too late, when you're dead.
You cannot *see* God until you *realize*. Remember that. You must realize that God is essential and that His existence is the foundation of everything that is. First *realize* then *see*. If you cannot realize that the existence of God is essential for the universe to exist, how can we ever prove to such a blind person the existence of God when he doesn't have a clue about God's spiritual nature, looks and personality. You can never prove or convince an atheist about God or anything other that's spiritual because that atheist is spiritual blind.
This is like proving a color for someone who's blind.
_____________________________________________________________​_______

6) Atheist: I only believe in what I can see and touch.

Can you see, hear or touch your thoughts?
Can you see, hear or touch your intelligence?
Can you see, hear or touch your conciousness?

No, you can't. There are phenomenon in this world which cannot be perceived with our physical senses. That's just the way it is. Because you don't really believe you're thoughtless, without a concious and an IQ with a negative value? I thought so. That's all I have to say. :D
_____________________________________________________________​________

7) God is spiritual and is proved with spiritual methods.

God is outside of the capabilites of science because God is spiritual and eternal and is not bound by time and matter as we are. He created a world accessable for scientific methods, but He is beyond it. This is not a weakness for a belief in Creation, just a limitation within science. The definition of science is gathering information by observing and experimenting, and from this make logical conclusions. God created a world which we can define by science. But He Himself cannot be defined in the same way. We can't see Him in a microscope or a telescope because He is outside of His Creation and using material instruments to find Him is useless. God is not material, He's spiritual all through and God is therefor not a part of our scientific competency which only deals with the material part of reality.
Science is a method, formulated by man, to study the physical reality. There's absolutely NOTHING which says (more than your own pride) that there isn't anything beyond our physical reality.

MATERIAL phenomenon can only be proven by MATERIAL methods!
SPIRITUAL phenomenon can only be proven by SPIRITUAL methods!

God's existence can only be found in the spiritual dimension which means that all of the atheists attempts to find Him with material methods have all been in vain and will forever fail. God can be found in our hearts and He will never leave our hearts. But to see, hear, experience or feel Him in our hearts is only possible when your heart is completely pure and washed away from all your sins. You just need to humble yourself and be sincere, first then will the proof come to you. You cannot find proof by using a binocular or measuringtape :D
_____________________________________________________________​_____________

8) Logical proof of God.

Perfection in the Creation:

How can it be that everything is so perfect? Everything is just so balanced and it's just simply amazing. The human body is so complex that scientists can't even explain half of how it works. Many interactions in nature are hard to explain without a "Creator". The whole Creation shows that there must be some form of logic behind it all. For many people, the perfection of our planet and the universe is proof enough.

The quest for the meaning of life:

Humans always needs something to live for because it's not enough to just exist. For some reason we always seek some form of a meaning. It's like we lost our meaning of life and since then we try to find it again in a way or another. Someone can give us the meaning of life, this Someone has to be God. The need for a meaning of life is a clue or proof that God exists.

The innver void:

Sometimes we speak of an inner void in humans, something which is missing. There are surprisingly many people who feel like there's something missing. Why do we have that feeling of emptiness? This emptiness came when we decided not to have anything to do with God. When you seek God it's just like this emptiness is replaced with a meaning. It's the same for all believers in God and this is a clue or proof that God exists.

The personal experience of God:

You often hear believers say: "I've experienced God". So many people can witness about the presence of God that it simply cannot be made up. This presence of God is mutual for all believers and something like that would have been impossible if God was just a made up person. Faith is a conviction of things you do not see.
The whole universe just seems so perfectly calibrated to make life possible. For this to be the work of Mr. Coincidence a.k.a. Big Bang is something only dopey, foggy theorists believe in. Just take your eyes as an example. Each eye has 110 million pixels each. Only someone as brilliant as God can come up with something that genius!
_____________________________________________________________​__

9) Einstein and Strindberg. Wise men!

"When I read the Bhagavad-Gita and reflect about how God created this universe everything else seems so superfluous." Albert Einstein

"It's just as illogical to believe in the world but deny God, as it is to believe in the shoe but deny the shoemaker" August Strindberg
_____________________________________________________________​___

What do you say folks? Hopefully this got you thinking a little bit. The Bible mentions how humans will behave during the end times. Humans will be lovers of themselves in the end times according to the Bible. Does that not fit the world today? Go to any gym and you'll see a guy standing in front of a mirror looking at his muscles and his clean shaved, tanned body. Humans will also walk after their own lust. Surely our world today is lustful, more than ever. We are living in the end times folks. Last chapters of revelations are coming true. The human behaviour today fits perfectly with end times scripture. Also, natural disasters have increased alot the past 100 years! A lot! There's also a lot of tensions between many of the strongest nations on Earth and the Bible says that there will be rumors of wars (WW3). And the past 100 years we've seen a huge increase in technology and the Bible mentions a period in human history where this would happen!

Well... this is all I had for now. God bless anyone who actually read this far! I'm sorry if there are any spelling or grammar mistakes. I'm only a 19 year old kid from Sweden so my English vocabulary is limited. The sentence structure might also be flawed here and there but it's really late here in Sweden and I wrote this pretty quickly.
I can go on and on how my life has changed since I found Jesus Christ when I was about 17 years old, but I think I will pass on that actually. Needless to say, my life changed for the better. No emptiness, no depression and no hate in my body. I just feel happy and pure, it's an awesome feeling! The free gift of salvation cannot do you any harm! Why not accept the gift Jesus Christ gave us when he sacrificed Himself for us? Don't know what to do? Read this website: [link to christianity.about.com]

If you do what the link above says, and you're sincere about it then you're saved. Your soul is not damned any longer. But why stop there? Why not go out there and spread the word about Jesus Christ and the gift of salvation? Find out what His will is and do it! Live a great life, hate no one, fear no one, love thy Lord, read scriptures, talk to the Lord every day by praying and as mentioned, win souls to Christ!
_____________________________________________________________​______

Still not sure what to make of all this? I recommend you check out my other thread about Kent Hovind. His seminars are simply AMAZING! Words cannot describe how amazing they are. His seminars alone must have saved thousands and thousands of souls. Simply amazing.

Thread: Kent Hovind. Spread the word.
_____________________________________________________________​________
 Quoting: Vinyard
Anonymous Coward
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
CONTENTS:

1) Atheist: Who created God?

Therein Christians are faced with, yet, another paradox. If got, by your definition, is uncreated then he is infinitely whole or, logically, non-existent.

If a creator God is timeless then our world would be timeless to. At what point did God decide to create us? By Christian "logic" the Universe would have had to come into existence instantaneously with the creator God. Without there our no moments.


2) Atheist: God does not exist?

Before you argue whether God does or does not exist you must look at the evidence of his, her, or its, existence being, in anyway, divine or supernatural.

Even if the fables are somewhat true it is highly unliked that YAHWEH was God. More plausible for him to have been a superhuman rather than supernatural. If we look at the grand scheme of things we too can be considered Gods. We have created a new dimension with our own technology (cyber-space) and are merely years from creating self-aware, evolving, AI. Our brains work like computers therefore you could consider us artificial evolving inteligence.

Then, even after taking this into consideration, if you are still religious you must then ask yourself "am I a theist or a deist." If the creator God does exist then there is more evidence to suggest that he does not intervine or care about his own creation. This would also be more logical.

3) Atheist: The existence of God is illogical!

The existence of a supernatural being is illogical. The existence of ONE divine ruler being is improbable, almost impossible.

4) Atheist: Can God create a rock...

Don't get your point.

5) Atheist: Prove God!

If you are making the claims that there is a God the burden of proof is on you. Even today, the only evidence used in arguments of God's existence has been pockets of scientific ignorance. Things we do not understand should never resemble proof of God's existence.

This theory is called God of the Gaps. Look it up.

6) Atheist: I only believe in what I can see and touch.

What nonsense. See and touch? I believe my great, great, grandfather existed because there is evidence to suggest he existed.

I agree with the theory that there are nanoscopic particles that work as the glue to existence. I cannot see this with my naked eye but scientific evidence suggests such a thing exists.

7) God is spiritual and is proved with spiritual methods.

Witchcraft is magic and is proved with magical methods.

Look at the science behind what you call spiritual and you might find yourself a little more enlightened.

Spirituallity is a combination of quantum science and psychology.

8) Logical proof of God.

There three words should never be used in one sentence.

9) Einstein and Strindberg. Wise men!

Einstein was NOT a theist. He had made countless statements about his ideas of intelligent design.


He used the word God as a medium in which to communicate the unknown. He is what you call a pantheistic atheist.

Many American universities condemned any teachings of Einstein because they believed they were satanic. Also, Einstein received death threats and was even sentenced to execution for blasphemy if he'd ever set foot on U.S soil.

Please. PLEASE. Do your research before making claims like this.
KlLLUMINATI

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05/05/2012 10:48 AM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
CONTENTS:

1) Atheist: Who created God?

Therein Christians are faced with, yet, another paradox. If got, by your definition, is uncreated then he is infinitely whole or, logically, non-existent.

If a creator God is timeless then our world would be timeless to. At what point did God decide to create us? By Christian "logic" the Universe would have had to come into existence instantaneously with the creator God. Without there our no moments.


2) Atheist: God does not exist?

Before you argue whether God does or does not exist you must look at the evidence of his, her, or its, existence being, in anyway, divine or supernatural.

Even if the fables are somewhat true it is highly unliked that YAHWEH was God. More plausible for him to have been a superhuman rather than supernatural. If we look at the grand scheme of things we too can be considered Gods. We have created a new dimension with our own technology (cyber-space) and are merely years from creating self-aware, evolving, AI. Our brains work like computers therefore you could consider us artificial evolving inteligence.

Then, even after taking this into consideration, if you are still religious you must then ask yourself "am I a theist or a deist." If the creator God does exist then there is more evidence to suggest that he does not intervine or care about his own creation. This would also be more logical.

3) Atheist: The existence of God is illogical!

. The existence of ONE divine ruler being is improbable, almost impossible.

4) Atheist: Can God create a rock...

Don't get your point.

5) Atheist: Prove God!

If you are making the claims that there is a God the burden of proof is on you. Even today, the only evidence used in arguments of God's existence has been pockets of scientific ignorance. Things we do not understand should never resemble proof of God's existence.

This theory is called God of the Gaps. Look it up.

6) Atheist: I only believe in what I can see and touch.

What nonsense. See and touch? I believe my great, great, grandfather existed because there is evidence to suggest he existed.

I agree with the theory that there are nanoscopic particles that work as the glue to existence. I cannot see this with my naked eye but scientific evidence suggests such a thing exists.

7) God is spiritual and is proved with spiritual methods.

Witchcraft is magic and is proved with magical methods.

Look at the science behind what you call spiritual and you might find yourself a little more enlightened.

Spirituallity is a combination of quantum science and psychology.

8) Logical proof of God.

There three words should never be used in one sentence.

9) Einstein and Strindberg. Wise men!

Einstein was NOT a theist. He had made countless statements about his ideas of intelligent design.


He used the word God as a medium in which to communicate the unknown. He is what you call a pantheistic atheist.

Many American universities condemned any teachings of Einstein because they believed they were satanic. Also, Einstein received death threats and was even sentenced to execution for blasphemy if he'd ever set foot on U.S soil.

Please. PLEASE. Do your research before making claims like this.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 296084


(1)God exists outside of time. God has no need to have been created, since God exists either outside time or within multiple dimensions of time.

(2)"Proofs" claiming to falsify the existence of God tend to fall into the logical error of strawman - misrepresenting the true nature of the God of the Bible in order to demonstrate some "impossibility." The scientific evidence supporting the existence of God has increased in the past few years.

(3)Your Atheism is illogical. You cannot know there is no God. To do that you'd have to know All things to know there is no God.
She just goes a little mad sometimes. We all go a little mad sometimes. Haven't you?
-Norman Bates

I think that rich people should live like poor people, and poor people should live like rich people, and change every week....
-Tupac Shakur

Somebody help me, tell me where to go from here cause even Thugs cry, but do the Lord care?
-Tupac Shakur

I don't have no fear of death. My only fear is coming back reincarnated.
-Tupac Shakur

I believe in human beings, and that all human beings should be respected as such, regardless of their color.
-Malcolm X

A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything.
-Malcolm X

When there’s no more room in Hell, the dead will walk the Earth.
-Dawn of the Dead

What an excellent day for an exorcism.
-The Exorcist
Anonymous Coward
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05/05/2012 10:51 AM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
Why give any credit to something that doesn't exist?....duh!
That's what they do.
Inverted logic.
Ignore.
Anonymous Coward
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05/05/2012 11:31 AM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
The bible says God is not male or female
 Quoting: KlLLUMINATI


Oh really now!! Read Exodus 15:3!!

"The LORD is a man of war; the LORD is his name." KJV

What do you not understand about the words "man" and "his?"

man = male/masculine

his = male/masculine

In fact, all the god damn biblical gods are MALE. Creation does NOT work that way. The biblical god is nothing more than a great big wanna be and a ruthless, cruel bully.
KlLLUMINATI

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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
The bible says God is not male or female
 Quoting: KlLLUMINATI


Oh really now!! Read Exodus 15:3!!

"The LORD is a man of war; the LORD is his name." KJV

What do you not understand about the words "man" and "his?"

man = male/masculine

his = male/masculine

In fact, all the god damn biblical gods are MALE. Creation does NOT work that way. The biblical god is nothing more than a great big wanna be and a ruthless, cruel bully.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13867753


God is spirit. Spirit has no gender. The only use gender has it to procreate, and since spirit isn't going around having babies, there is no gender. Use whatever pronoun you want. Even the bible says God created us in his image but my wifes image is female, therefore Gods image to her is female.
She just goes a little mad sometimes. We all go a little mad sometimes. Haven't you?
-Norman Bates

I think that rich people should live like poor people, and poor people should live like rich people, and change every week....
-Tupac Shakur

Somebody help me, tell me where to go from here cause even Thugs cry, but do the Lord care?
-Tupac Shakur

I don't have no fear of death. My only fear is coming back reincarnated.
-Tupac Shakur

I believe in human beings, and that all human beings should be respected as such, regardless of their color.
-Malcolm X

A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything.
-Malcolm X

When there’s no more room in Hell, the dead will walk the Earth.
-Dawn of the Dead

What an excellent day for an exorcism.
-The Exorcist
Miggy

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05/05/2012 11:38 AM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
Probably the most well-known atheist of our time is Lee Strobel.

There's nothing he wanted more than to dis-prove the existence of a Creator.

To date, he has probably led more atheists to Christ than any other individual.

Plenty of You Tube clips on his speaking of agonizing frustration during the time he tried to prove he was right.

[link to www.leestrobel.com]
Be Still and know that I am God.
-Psalms 46:10
Anonymous Coward
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05/05/2012 11:42 AM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
The bible says God is not male or female
 Quoting: KlLLUMINATI


Oh really now!! Read Exodus 15:3!!

"The LORD is a man of war; the LORD is his name." KJV

What do you not understand about the words "man" and "his?"

man = male/masculine

his = male/masculine

In fact, all the god damn biblical gods are MALE. Creation does NOT work that way. The biblical god is nothing more than a great big wanna be and a ruthless, cruel bully.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13867753


God is spirit. Spirit has no gender. The only use gender has it to procreate, and since spirit isn't going around having babies, there is no gender. Use whatever pronoun you want. Even the bible says God created us in his image but my wifes image is female, therefore Gods image to her is female.
 Quoting: KlLLUMINATI


yes but bible god is not always God. It can't be, look at exodus 21 and you'll see the difference between them.
overmind

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05/05/2012 11:52 AM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
I'm an atheist. The statements in the OP don't reflect my views. I'm not interested in having a debate, but for those who would like to understand atheism better (or at least my view of atheism; it's certainly not the only one), I offer the following:

1) Atheist: Who created God?

It doesn't make any sense to me to ask who created something that doesn't exist.

A word about what the "universe" is: it's everything that exists, but the concept says nothing about how it's structured (dimensions, branes, etc). Which means, the universe has always existed. It had no beginning and will have no end; it does not need a creator. To say a creator exists outside the universe is to say it exists outside of existence--which is a contradiction.

2) Atheist: God does not exist?

Through the wonderful power of the human mind, I don't need to know everything to know something doesn't exist. I haven't seen every square ever created, but I know none of them have only three sides. I haven't known every man ever born, but I know they are all mortal. Humans are capable of understanding the world around us, and one thing we can say for sure is that contradictions can't exist.

3) Atheist: The existence of God is illogical!

Human existence is perfectly logical. We may not understand each and every step for how life evolved and how we got here, but so what? I'm willing to live with some uncertainty, because I know I have the capability to understand.

When I look at a flower or a tree or a human, what I see is the awesomeness of what has happened as a result billions of years of evolution; of trial-and-error at the molecular level on such an immense scale. That's much more inspiring to me than the idea that it was designed by some all-powerful being.

4) Atheist: Can God create a rock...

I would never say this. Something that doesn't exist can't create anything.

5) Atheist: Prove God!

I would never ask this. You can't prove something that doesn't exist.

6) Atheist: I only believe in what I can see and touch.

How can you possibly *know* that God exists "outside of time" or "outside of the universe"?

The only way humans know anything about the world around us is through our senses. We then integrate and process those sensory inputs into ideas and concepts (which we can then process into other ideas). Ideas and other things that I can't see or touch do exist; they're real, and I "believe in them."

When it comes down to it, the only way to believe in something that doesn't exist is either from a cultural base ("church is fun"), or thorough conditioning (usually starting in childhood), or based on feeling; on emotion. The truth is that it's impossible to know anything about the world based on emotion. Emotions are a response, a secondary, not a primary. I believe the idea that you can learn things about the world through emotion is the fundamental place that many atheists and religionists differ.

7) God is spiritual and is proved with spiritual methods.

How do you know about other spiritual things? As I said above, the only way to know anything is by processing your sensory inputs using your mind. We can know and understand many "spiritual" things with material methods--things like the nature of love and happiness, for example.

8) Logical proof of God.

Everything you described here also has an explanation that does not require supernatural intervention.

What humans "want" or "need" has no bearing on how the universe works. It does, however, influence the structure of our belief systems.

BTW, the word "supernatural" is a contradiction. Everything that exists is part of nature, and is therefore natural.

9) Einstein and Strindberg. Wise men!

Arguments from authority mean nothing to me.
 Quoting: Ace 14741767


Atheism is an illogical belief, you cannot make absolute claims about something you personally cannot perceive. For someone with no form of spiritual experience, the most logical philosophy is agnosticism. Those who experience the spiritual are able to create faith because of personal experience.

"The confusion about the experience of the certainty of God arises out of the dissimilar interpretations and relations of that experience by separate individuals and by different races of men. The experiencing of God may be wholly valid, but the discourse about God, being intellectual and philosophical, is divergent and oftentimes confusingly fallacious."

"Religion must ever be its own critic and judge; it can never be observed, much less understood, from the outside. Your only assurance of a personal God consists in your own insight as to your belief in, and experience with, things spiritual. To all of your fellows who have had a similar experience, no argument about the personality or reality of God is necessary, while to all other men who are not thus sure of God no possible argument could ever be truly convincing."
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05/05/2012 11:59 AM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
Just look at evolution...all it does is replace the creator with themselves. In their seeming superior reasoning, they still cannot figure out how the gases and elements of the big bang came into being, or how that matter is fixed and solid. Science tells us that all matter is nothing but photons and electromagnetic energy; and they cannot figure how things are held together. The mathmatical probibility of the elements coming together to create all we know as our universe is one with 18 zero's in back of it, yet they will place their faith in such evidence of inprobability, rather than come to a logical conclusion that something bigger and higher than themselves are holding it all together. They are fools.
 Quoting: Wingedlion


Winged-Liar, here is some ancient knowledge for you. It comes from the likes of Thoth and Hermes.



Spirit = THE ALL; the Infinite Living Mind. Spirit is the invisible, moveable, ever active
positive principle in motion.

Matter = is solidified spirit. It is the passive of negative principle.

Involution = The descent of spirit into matter; the transmutation of spirit into matter.

Evolution = Matter’s ascent/return to Spirit; the transmutation of matter back into spirit.


There are 4 Great Cycles/Ages of “human” evolution.

Golden Age = We were mostly spiritual in nature, very little matter.
= 720 Divine Years = 720 X 360 = 259,200 common years. – Pole Motion = 36 degrees


Silver Age = Less spiritual, more matter.
= 540 Divine Years = 540 X 360 = 194,400 common years - Pole Motion = 27 degrees

Copper Age = Ever less spiritual and more and more matter
= 360 Divine Years = 360 X 360 = 129,600 common years - Pole Motion = 18 degrees

Iron Age = Spirit is now in the dense, barbarial age/state of its involution (it is
now mostly matter), and became more and more gross until it reached the
very lowest point of the Iron Age and then began the evolution of matter back
to Spirit.
= 180 Divine Years = 180 X 360 = 64,800 common years - Pole Motion = 9 degrees

Total common years = 648,000 = 1,800 Divine Years

Total Pole Motion = 90 degrees = ¼ of the entire circle/spiral

Complete orbit of 360 degrees would take 1,800 Divine Years X 4 = 2,592,000 common years = 1 Polar Day
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05/05/2012 12:08 PM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
The bible says God is not male or female
 Quoting: KlLLUMINATI


Oh really now!! Read Exodus 15:3!!

"The LORD is a man of war; the LORD is his name." KJV

What do you not understand about the words "man" and "his?"

man = male/masculine

his = male/masculine

In fact, all the god damn biblical gods are MALE. Creation does NOT work that way. The biblical god is nothing more than a great big wanna be and a ruthless, cruel bully.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13867753


God is spirit. Spirit has no gender. The only use gender has it to procreate, and since spirit isn't going around having babies, there is no gender. Use whatever pronoun you want. Even the bible says God created us in his image but my wifes image is female, therefore Gods image to her is female.
 Quoting: KlLLUMINATI


No point in trying to discuss anything with a programmed/conditioned mind. YOUR Buy-Bull calls the LORD a "man." YOUR Buy-Bull says this LORD loves `war` But, if YOUR mind cannot see the words and comprehend what they say, so be it. End of discussion!!

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