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A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)

 
Halcyon Dayz, FCD
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05/07/2012 05:13 AM

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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
And now..this thread has degenerated into a pre school type fight over whether god has a weeny or not...

SO fucking TYPICAL of christians...
putin
 Quoting: Aussie Coward 14245114

Heay! Kook fight!
book
_____________________________________________________________​___________________

Who said there was evidence ?
 Quoting: KlLLUMINATI

Wut.

Either Atheism is illogical or there are no atheists
 Quoting: KlLLUMINATI

False dichotomy.

I can think of a number of other possibilities.
book
_____________________________________________________________​___________________

And again, argument from authority.
I don't care what people claim.
I only care what evidence they present.
book
 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz, FCD

You didn't even read the link, did you?
 Quoting: Miggy

That page tried to sell me books and lectures.
It does not contain evidence for the existence of any gods.

In one page it told you what pain-staking lengths the guy went to in order to prove there IS NO GOD!
 Quoting: Miggy

It doesn't say that.
Also, irrational. Not possible to proof an universal negative.

In the end, he was not only convinced that there IS a God but became one of His strongest believers.
 Quoting: Miggy

I'll take it as a given that Mr. Strobel is convinced of the existence of a god.
There are also people who are convinced that the Earth is flat.
It proofs absolutely nothing.
book
_____________________________________________________________​___________________
...and, if any part of your belief set considers the possibility of a supreme being, then you are NOT an atheist. you are an agnostic, or an existentialist.
 Quoting: Salt

Entertaining the possibility of something does not equate to the believe in that something.
That's what the theism-atheism is about, the believe/non-believe in any god.
If you can't say "I do believe in a god or gods" then you are an atheist.

Agnosticism/gnosticism is about the believe that it is possible to know the answer.
Whole different animal.

ETs are probable, and certainly not impossible.
But I don't believe in ET. There is no evidence they actually exist.
book
_____________________________________________________________​___________________

 Quoting: Canadian Coward 2994564

And another argument from authority.
What is Flew's evidence?

(And why can't they leave the old man alone?)

It doesn't matter who claims what.
It only matters what evidence they bring.

 Quoting: Canadian Coward 2994564

That is basically the teleological argument.
Unconvincing, obviously. It has been around for a couple of thousand years.

 Quoting: Canadian Coward 2994564

More of the same.
book
Hatred is a cancer upon the world.
It rots the mind and blackens the heart.


Hi! My name is Halcyon Dayz and I'm addicted to morans.
Halcyon Dayz, FCD
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05/07/2012 05:21 AM

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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
<double post>

Last Edited by Halcyon Dayz, FCD on 05/07/2012 05:21 AM
Hatred is a cancer upon the world.
It rots the mind and blackens the heart.


Hi! My name is Halcyon Dayz and I'm addicted to morans.
William_the_Bloody

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05/07/2012 09:05 AM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
Obviously this was decided by a "male" right?

Male is spiritual and female is material? Fuck that noise!! I would sooner believe just the opposite is correct. If you dare to look at Pre-His-Story, you'll find the feminine principle was very much alive. The feminine was deliberately suppressed and replaced with the Patriarch System that has controlled this planet for the past thousands of years. Before Patriarchy there was a "Golden Age."

[link to quest4nexus.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13867753


You can fight and argue if you want; the process was simple observation.

If the universe (God) is expanding, than God is an "outie" and since the universe is life-affirming and therefore "Positive" the "out" principle became Positive which is symbolized by Male Gender.

Females have an innie, and therefore symbolize the opposite.

You really come off as thick if you can't accept that and integrate into your understanding.
Anonymous Coward
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05/07/2012 05:47 PM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
allergic to weed. wish i could.
 Quoting: Salt


Have you tried it in tincture or oil form?
Anonymous Coward
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05/07/2012 06:05 PM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
allergic to weed. wish i could.
 Quoting: Salt


Have you tried it in tincture or oil form?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13867753


dunno. i had it in brownies once.

shake all over, shudder is more accurate. teeth chatter. blood sugar spikes really high, then falls down to near nil. go really pale. cold sweats...

not really an enjoyable or recreational experience. Lol.
Anonymous Coward
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05/07/2012 07:09 PM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
Are there simply no more websites and/or forums that cater to people to want to talk religion?

It's almost like god destroyed them all and now poeople are flocking to a conspiracy website to argue for their religious views.

Does it all come down to evangicalism and trying to convert others in an opem forum, on your soap-box?

Not being a hater. Just can't wrap my head around why GLP has become a place where people come to argue over religion. You'd think that there was at least some other place out there in the web that would be better suited for Athiest Vs. Christian bla bla bla bla bla bla bla.rant
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 580163


Hey, why do you have the same user ID as me?
Ace
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05/08/2012 11:04 PM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
If you are wrong, you may or may not have lived a virtuous life, because life is complete absurdity and it doesn't really matter anyway. You may or may not have practiced healthy character traits for no other reason than to better yourself, but it doesn't matter anyway, because after you die you believe its to the worms anyway!
 Quoting: Salt

The quote above is very sad indeed. How anyone can support a religion where "life after death" (a misnomer if there ever was one) is more important than life itself is beyond me. Such a terrible crime.

Life is not an "absurdity." Life is precious, fantastic, incredible, amazing.

Life most definitely matters. In fact, nothing matters more than life. Something can only "matter" to the living.

I "practice healthy character traits" because they further my life. They are the path to happiness.

Yes, after I die, my body goes to the worms (or some such). All things that have a beginning have and end. Life ends.

So I would re-phrase what was said above: if I'm wrong, at least I have lived a happy, fulfilling life. If you're wrong, you've wasted your one-and-only life because you think it's an absurdity and doesn't matter.
Anonymous Coward
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06/30/2012 05:06 PM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
It was actually Baal that Moses prayed to to part the Red Sea.

Get the fuck real here, if the Jewish or Christian god's were real, they be as more fucking despicable than anyone on Earth for not showing their faces in fucking EVER.

Even magician's today can convince children there is such thing as magic. A long time ago everyone was like an ignorant child, unsheltered by all the technology we are surrounded. And a magician can do this today, without technology.

So, even Jesus performed miracles. Well, I'll be damned if many people I have known haven't lived longer lives because of the scientific innovation in hospitals.

Show me your miracles. Drive me to the edge of my sanity. MAKE ME BELIEVE. I AM READY FOR THE CALLING.

It's just no one is showing up. :/
Sunder

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06/30/2012 05:10 PM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
OP, you've made a ridiculous amount of logical errors, so let me sift them for you.

___________________________________________________________​____

CONTENTS:

1) Atheist: Who created God?

^ No smart atheist is stupid enough to ask this question; if something doesn't exist, it's pointless to ask who created it. There is no creator of a non-existent Bench.

2) Atheist: God does not exist?

^ That's not even a question, that's a premise. Smart atheists do not assert God does not exist, but that we cannot know if a God exists, because we do not have evidence for him, so it is pointless to believe in one.

3) Atheist: The existence of God is illogical!

4) Atheist: Can God create a rock...

5) Atheist: Prove God!

^Burden of proof; null hypothesis is the negation. It's the same as saying "Prove Bigfoot!"; because the default logical state is to assume Bigfoot doesn't exist.

6) Atheist: I only believe in what I can see and touch.

7) God is spiritual and is proved with spiritual methods.

8) Logical proof of God.

You can't prove God logically; otherwise there would be no dispute about it. Logic is pretty rock solid and defined mathematically; don't even pretend your God can be mathematically demonstrated.

9) Einstein and Strindberg. Wise men!
_____________________________________________________________​_


1) Atheist: Who created God?

Consult above, this is a dumb argument from a dumb atheist; smart atheists would not use this as an argument. If something doesn't exist, it's pointless to ask who created it. There is no creator of a non-existent Bench.
_____________________________________________________________​___

2) Atheist: God does not exist!


You're correct that this is only a premise and it's wrong to assume it true, but it's also wrong to assume "God exists" is true; the middle ground is better: "We don't know." Gnostic Atheists believe this, and they're generally considered stupid. The average smart atheist is an Agnostic Atheist. (Before any retarded 'agnostics' jump in, gnosticism/agnosticism is not a religion, it's an assertion of what you know (source: dictionary); atheism is not 'the disbelief in God' but 'the lack of belief in God' which are two different things.
_____________________________________________________________​___

3) Atheist: The existence of God is illogical.

If you think that it's illogical for God to exist, did you ever stop to think the same thing about yourself? Do you think it's logial for you to exist? Why is your own existence more logical than God's? To believe that our own existence came about without an existing cause is the same as believing that sunrays can exist without the sun.

There are three fundamental assertions:

1. I exist.
2. I can learn things from the experiences I have around me.
3. Predictive models are better than non-predictive models.

You cannot start philosophy without having those 3 core beliefs, because otherwise everything is an incoherent mess. It is more logical for me to exist than God because you can observe me, and you cannot observe a God. Also, this isn't more an attack on the argument rather than your scientific illiteracy, but sunrays can exist without the sun; they're a form of radiation and it can be generated from other places (we just give them different names but they are in essence the same thing).



_____________________________________________________________​___

4) Atheist: Can God create a rock so heavy He cannot lift it Himself? And if he can't lift it, he's not almighty.


Reference to number 1; it's stupid to ask a question about something that does not exist.
_____________________________________________________________​___

5) Atheist: Prove God!

Atheists always demand God to appear Himself in front of their eyes before they will start believing. This is simply pride and God does not answer prideful challenges just as much as the President of USA would pay you a visit without you giving him any worthy qualifications which caught his attention.

It is not pride; we just need evidence something exists before we believe in it; the President DOES give us evidence he exists; he has actions he executes, public letters, etc. Your God doesn't; he didn't write scripture, people did, claiming they were inspired from him.

Ask yourself this: Do you, as an atheist, deserve to have a personal visit by the Almighty? What are your qualifications?

Surely he's capable of providing such a visit; he's infinite, so it should be no effort for him.

When you can't even get the President of USA to pay you a visit, what makes you think God would appear in His all Greatness in front of your very eyes?

I don't claim the President is infinitely powerful.

It's the opposite. Atheists despise God, they spit on Him and do not want to get rid of their illusion that God does not exist.

I despise liars and bullshitters; you are the one who is deluded, as demonstrated by all these logical errors.

They want it to stay that way and because God does not interfere with the free will, the atheist will never feel the presence of God until he change his attitude.

That doesn't seem like free will; if I need a certain attitude in order to see/feel something, that seems like submission. You religious have a saying don't you: "Submit to the lord. Serve the lord."

For the atheist, God will prove His existence when it's too late, when you're dead.

Doesn't seem like a moral thing to do to me, seems like God would rather I be burnt rather than him to do the simple thing and show he exists.

You cannot *see* God until you *realize*.

Just as you apparently cannot see logic unless it's pointed out to you, you're just rambling religious babble by this point.

Remember that. You must realize that God is essential and that His existence is the foundation of everything that is.

Clearly not; I seem to be living a happy, godless life. I have a loving girlfriend, money, and friends. I do charity work and I help those around me. I stay true to the law and to my values. These are the important things in life, not religion.

You can never prove or convince an atheist about God or anything other that's spiritual because that atheist is spiritual blind.

So you claim God made me that way, and that I'm going to be punished for it by God; that makes God an immoral being does it not?
_____________________________________________________________​_______

6) Atheist: I only believe in what I can see and touch.

Can you see, hear or touch your thoughts?
Can you see, hear or touch your intelligence?
Can you see, hear or touch your conciousness?

Let's break this down by replacing "see and touch" with "observe" which is a better scientific descriptor. We can observe our thoughts, it's the electron transfer in mental neurons; if you need proof, we can smash up a brain and it will stop a person from thinking. This happens in every case. I'll ignore the rest of this because it's just insulting and crude.
_____________________________________________________________​________

7) God is spiritual and is proved with spiritual methods.

Atheists claim nothing spiritual exists, so yes, this statement is correct if we use the word 'proof' loosely. Proofs are generally considered logic-orientated though, and spirtual methods are not logical.
_____________________________________________________________​_____________

8) Logical proof of God.

Perfection in the Creation:

How can it be that everything is so perfect?

The world is clearly not perfect; otherwise why would atheists exist?

The quest for the meaning of life:

Humans always needs something to live for because it's not enough to just exist.

It is for some people. The meaning of life is arbitrary; a God is not needed for it.

The inner void:

Stop using sentimentalism; some people feel they are unhappy, and that's the void that is present; the absence of happiness. I have met many people without such a void.

The personal experience of God:

You often hear believers say: "I've experienced God". So many people can witness about the presence of God that it simply cannot be made up.

Argumentum ad Populum (numerical fallacy); yes it can be made up, please see 'Mass Hysteria', which is when a large group of people are affected by the same delusion due to crowd effects, which are genetically present as they assist survival. People say they experience God because it makes them feel better that he exists, not because it is true, but because it makes them happy; there is a distinction.
_____________________________________________________________​__

9) Einstein and Strindberg. Wise men!

"When I read the Bhagavad-Gita and reflect about how God created this universe everything else seems so superfluous." Albert Einstein

"It's just as illogical to believe in the world but deny God, as it is to believe in the shoe but deny the shoemaker" August Strindberg

''About God, I cannot accept any concept based on the authority of the Church. As long as I can remember, I have resented mass indoctrination. I do not believe in the fear of life, in the fear of death, in blind faith. I cannot prove to you that there is no personal God, but if I were to speak of him, I would be a liar. I do not believe in the God of theology who rewards good and punishes evil. My God created laws that take care of that. His universe is not ruled by wishful thinking, but by immutable laws''.

- Albert Einstein.

Not only that, but many people seem to think that Albert Einstein is an authority in everything; he was one of the smartest physicists that has probably ever lived; that does not mean he knew everything, or was prone to human error; I'm pretty sure I'd know many facts Albert didn't. It's irrelevant in his case, he was not a theist either, but a deist; it's just Christian/Jewish stupidity that has led them to believe he was one of them.


_____________________________________________________________​___

What do you say folks?
 Quoting: Vinyard


I say you need to get your head sorted, and do something called study.

Sunder - Ex-theist.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
OP, you've made a ridiculous amount of logical errors, so let me sift them for you.

___________________________________________________________​____

CONTENTS:

1) Atheist: Who created God?

^ No smart atheist is stupid enough to ask this question; if something doesn't exist, it's pointless to ask who created it. There is no creator of a non-existent Bench.

2) Atheist: God does not exist?

^ That's not even a question, that's a premise. Smart atheists do not assert God does not exist, but that we cannot know if a God exists, because we do not have evidence for him, so it is pointless to believe in one.

3) Atheist: The existence of God is illogical!

4) Atheist: Can God create a rock...

5) Atheist: Prove God!

^Burden of proof; null hypothesis is the negation. It's the same as saying "Prove Bigfoot!"; because the default logical state is to assume Bigfoot doesn't exist.

6) Atheist: I only believe in what I can see and touch.

7) God is spiritual and is proved with spiritual methods.

8) Logical proof of God.

You can't prove God logically; otherwise there would be no dispute about it. Logic is pretty rock solid and defined mathematically; don't even pretend your God can be mathematically demonstrated.

9) Einstein and Strindberg. Wise men!
_____________________________________________________________​_


1) Atheist: Who created God?

Consult above, this is a dumb argument from a dumb atheist; smart atheists would not use this as an argument. If something doesn't exist, it's pointless to ask who created it. There is no creator of a non-existent Bench.
_____________________________________________________________​___

2) Atheist: God does not exist!


You're correct that this is only a premise and it's wrong to assume it true, but it's also wrong to assume "God exists" is true; the middle ground is better: "We don't know." Gnostic Atheists believe this, and they're generally considered stupid. The average smart atheist is an Agnostic Atheist. (Before any retarded 'agnostics' jump in, gnosticism/agnosticism is not a religion, it's an assertion of what you know (source: dictionary); atheism is not 'the disbelief in God' but 'the lack of belief in God' which are two different things.
_____________________________________________________________​___

3) Atheist: The existence of God is illogical.

If you think that it's illogical for God to exist, did you ever stop to think the same thing about yourself? Do you think it's logial for you to exist? Why is your own existence more logical than God's? To believe that our own existence came about without an existing cause is the same as believing that sunrays can exist without the sun.

There are three fundamental assertions:

1. I exist.
2. I can learn things from the experiences I have around me.
3. Predictive models are better than non-predictive models.

You cannot start philosophy without having those 3 core beliefs, because otherwise everything is an incoherent mess. It is more logical for me to exist than God because you can observe me, and you cannot observe a God. Also, this isn't more an attack on the argument rather than your scientific illiteracy, but sunrays can exist without the sun; they're a form of radiation and it can be generated from other places (we just give them different names but they are in essence the same thing).



_____________________________________________________________​___

4) Atheist: Can God create a rock so heavy He cannot lift it Himself? And if he can't lift it, he's not almighty.


Reference to number 1; it's stupid to ask a question about something that does not exist.
_____________________________________________________________​___

5) Atheist: Prove God!

Atheists always demand God to appear Himself in front of their eyes before they will start believing. This is simply pride and God does not answer prideful challenges just as much as the President of USA would pay you a visit without you giving him any worthy qualifications which caught his attention.

It is not pride; we just need evidence something exists before we believe in it; the President DOES give us evidence he exists; he has actions he executes, public letters, etc. Your God doesn't; he didn't write scripture, people did, claiming they were inspired from him.

Ask yourself this: Do you, as an atheist, deserve to have a personal visit by the Almighty? What are your qualifications?

Surely he's capable of providing such a visit; he's infinite, so it should be no effort for him.

When you can't even get the President of USA to pay you a visit, what makes you think God would appear in His all Greatness in front of your very eyes?

I don't claim the President is infinitely powerful.

It's the opposite. Atheists despise God, they spit on Him and do not want to get rid of their illusion that God does not exist.

I despise liars and bullshitters; you are the one who is deluded, as demonstrated by all these logical errors.

They want it to stay that way and because God does not interfere with the free will, the atheist will never feel the presence of God until he change his attitude.

That doesn't seem like free will; if I need a certain attitude in order to see/feel something, that seems like submission. You religious have a saying don't you: "Submit to the lord. Serve the lord."

For the atheist, God will prove His existence when it's too late, when you're dead.

Doesn't seem like a moral thing to do to me, seems like God would rather I be burnt rather than him to do the simple thing and show he exists.

You cannot *see* God until you *realize*.

Just as you apparently cannot see logic unless it's pointed out to you, you're just rambling religious babble by this point.

Remember that. You must realize that God is essential and that His existence is the foundation of everything that is.

Clearly not; I seem to be living a happy, godless life. I have a loving girlfriend, money, and friends. I do charity work and I help those around me. I stay true to the law and to my values. These are the important things in life, not religion.

You can never prove or convince an atheist about God or anything other that's spiritual because that atheist is spiritual blind.

So you claim God made me that way, and that I'm going to be punished for it by God; that makes God an immoral being does it not?
_____________________________________________________________​_______

6) Atheist: I only believe in what I can see and touch.

Can you see, hear or touch your thoughts?
Can you see, hear or touch your intelligence?
Can you see, hear or touch your conciousness?

Let's break this down by replacing "see and touch" with "observe" which is a better scientific descriptor. We can observe our thoughts, it's the electron transfer in mental neurons; if you need proof, we can smash up a brain and it will stop a person from thinking. This happens in every case. I'll ignore the rest of this because it's just insulting and crude.
_____________________________________________________________​________

7) God is spiritual and is proved with spiritual methods.

Atheists claim nothing spiritual exists, so yes, this statement is correct if we use the word 'proof' loosely. Proofs are generally considered logic-orientated though, and spirtual methods are not logical.
_____________________________________________________________​_____________

8) Logical proof of God.

Perfection in the Creation:

How can it be that everything is so perfect?

The world is clearly not perfect; otherwise why would atheists exist?

The quest for the meaning of life:

Humans always needs something to live for because it's not enough to just exist.

It is for some people. The meaning of life is arbitrary; a God is not needed for it.

The inner void:

Stop using sentimentalism; some people feel they are unhappy, and that's the void that is present; the absence of happiness. I have met many people without such a void.

The personal experience of God:

You often hear believers say: "I've experienced God". So many people can witness about the presence of God that it simply cannot be made up.

Argumentum ad Populum (numerical fallacy); yes it can be made up, please see 'Mass Hysteria', which is when a large group of people are affected by the same delusion due to crowd effects, which are genetically present as they assist survival. People say they experience God because it makes them feel better that he exists, not because it is true, but because it makes them happy; there is a distinction.
_____________________________________________________________​__

9) Einstein and Strindberg. Wise men!

"When I read the Bhagavad-Gita and reflect about how God created this universe everything else seems so superfluous." Albert Einstein

"It's just as illogical to believe in the world but deny God, as it is to believe in the shoe but deny the shoemaker" August Strindberg

''About God, I cannot accept any concept based on the authority of the Church. As long as I can remember, I have resented mass indoctrination. I do not believe in the fear of life, in the fear of death, in blind faith. I cannot prove to you that there is no personal God, but if I were to speak of him, I would be a liar. I do not believe in the God of theology who rewards good and punishes evil. My God created laws that take care of that. His universe is not ruled by wishful thinking, but by immutable laws''.

- Albert Einstein.

Not only that, but many people seem to think that Albert Einstein is an authority in everything; he was one of the smartest physicists that has probably ever lived; that does not mean he knew everything, or was prone to human error; I'm pretty sure I'd know many facts Albert didn't. It's irrelevant in his case, he was not a theist either, but a deist; it's just Christian/Jewish stupidity that has led them to believe he was one of them.


_____________________________________________________________​___

What do you say folks?
 Quoting: Vinyard


I say you need to get your head sorted, and do something called study.

Sunder - Ex-theist.
 Quoting: Sunder



Thanks for your answer that I agree with as much as I can read :P
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
Why do people automatically assume that there has to be a creator to everything? WHY must the universe have an original cause? Why can it just not BE? Why do you believe that GOD created time, space and matter? What if the universe just _IS_? As in; it was never created but has just BEEN? Note; Never created - Time does not exist in this sense. Same with life - be it in form of microbacterias or whatever. Perhaps it has always existed - it just IS. No original cause. It just evovled with time and is what you see today. It's called evolution man.

And your "Atheist questions" are just simply stupid. Never have I encountered an atheist who said "THERE IS NO GOD" - simply "I do not believe in GOD".
Wonko the Sane

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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
Vinyard, you are wise beyond your years and you have no need to apologise for your English. I hope you don't mind but I copied your original post to print out & meditate over. I'll get back later. Bless you!
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
OP, you've made a ridiculous amount of logical errors, so let me sift them for you.

___________________________________________________________​____

CONTENTS:

1) Atheist: Who created God?

^ No smart atheist is stupid enough to ask this question; if something doesn't exist, it's pointless to ask who created it. There is no creator of a non-existent Bench.

2) Atheist: God does not exist?

^ That's not even a question, that's a premise. Smart atheists do not assert God does not exist, but that we cannot know if a God exists, because we do not have evidence for him, so it is pointless to believe in one.

3) Atheist: The existence of God is illogical!

4) Atheist: Can God create a rock...

5) Atheist: Prove God!

^Burden of proof; null hypothesis is the negation. It's the same as saying "Prove Bigfoot!"; because the default logical state is to assume Bigfoot doesn't exist.

6) Atheist: I only believe in what I can see and touch.

7) God is spiritual and is proved with spiritual methods.

8) Logical proof of God.

You can't prove God logically; otherwise there would be no dispute about it. Logic is pretty rock solid and defined mathematically; don't even pretend your God can be mathematically demonstrated.

9) Einstein and Strindberg. Wise men!
_____________________________________________________________​_


1) Atheist: Who created God?

Consult above, this is a dumb argument from a dumb atheist; smart atheists would not use this as an argument. If something doesn't exist, it's pointless to ask who created it. There is no creator of a non-existent Bench.
_____________________________________________________________​___

2) Atheist: God does not exist!


You're correct that this is only a premise and it's wrong to assume it true, but it's also wrong to assume "God exists" is true; the middle ground is better: "We don't know." Gnostic Atheists believe this, and they're generally considered stupid. The average smart atheist is an Agnostic Atheist. (Before any retarded 'agnostics' jump in, gnosticism/agnosticism is not a religion, it's an assertion of what you know (source: dictionary); atheism is not 'the disbelief in God' but 'the lack of belief in God' which are two different things.
_____________________________________________________________​___

3) Atheist: The existence of God is illogical.

If you think that it's illogical for God to exist, did you ever stop to think the same thing about yourself? Do you think it's logial for you to exist? Why is your own existence more logical than God's? To believe that our own existence came about without an existing cause is the same as believing that sunrays can exist without the sun.

There are three fundamental assertions:

1. I exist.
2. I can learn things from the experiences I have around me.
3. Predictive models are better than non-predictive models.

You cannot start philosophy without having those 3 core beliefs, because otherwise everything is an incoherent mess. It is more logical for me to exist than God because you can observe me, and you cannot observe a God. Also, this isn't more an attack on the argument rather than your scientific illiteracy, but sunrays can exist without the sun; they're a form of radiation and it can be generated from other places (we just give them different names but they are in essence the same thing).



_____________________________________________________________​___

4) Atheist: Can God create a rock so heavy He cannot lift it Himself? And if he can't lift it, he's not almighty.


Reference to number 1; it's stupid to ask a question about something that does not exist.
_____________________________________________________________​___

5) Atheist: Prove God!

Atheists always demand God to appear Himself in front of their eyes before they will start believing. This is simply pride and God does not answer prideful challenges just as much as the President of USA would pay you a visit without you giving him any worthy qualifications which caught his attention.

It is not pride; we just need evidence something exists before we believe in it; the President DOES give us evidence he exists; he has actions he executes, public letters, etc. Your God doesn't; he didn't write scripture, people did, claiming they were inspired from him.

Ask yourself this: Do you, as an atheist, deserve to have a personal visit by the Almighty? What are your qualifications?

Surely he's capable of providing such a visit; he's infinite, so it should be no effort for him.

When you can't even get the President of USA to pay you a visit, what makes you think God would appear in His all Greatness in front of your very eyes?

I don't claim the President is infinitely powerful.

It's the opposite. Atheists despise God, they spit on Him and do not want to get rid of their illusion that God does not exist.

I despise liars and bullshitters; you are the one who is deluded, as demonstrated by all these logical errors.

They want it to stay that way and because God does not interfere with the free will, the atheist will never feel the presence of God until he change his attitude.

That doesn't seem like free will; if I need a certain attitude in order to see/feel something, that seems like submission. You religious have a saying don't you: "Submit to the lord. Serve the lord."

For the atheist, God will prove His existence when it's too late, when you're dead.

Doesn't seem like a moral thing to do to me, seems like God would rather I be burnt rather than him to do the simple thing and show he exists.

You cannot *see* God until you *realize*.

Just as you apparently cannot see logic unless it's pointed out to you, you're just rambling religious babble by this point.

Remember that. You must realize that God is essential and that His existence is the foundation of everything that is.

Clearly not; I seem to be living a happy, godless life. I have a loving girlfriend, money, and friends. I do charity work and I help those around me. I stay true to the law and to my values. These are the important things in life, not religion.

You can never prove or convince an atheist about God or anything other that's spiritual because that atheist is spiritual blind.

So you claim God made me that way, and that I'm going to be punished for it by God; that makes God an immoral being does it not?
_____________________________________________________________​_______

6) Atheist: I only believe in what I can see and touch.

Can you see, hear or touch your thoughts?
Can you see, hear or touch your intelligence?
Can you see, hear or touch your conciousness?

Let's break this down by replacing "see and touch" with "observe" which is a better scientific descriptor. We can observe our thoughts, it's the electron transfer in mental neurons; if you need proof, we can smash up a brain and it will stop a person from thinking. This happens in every case. I'll ignore the rest of this because it's just insulting and crude.
_____________________________________________________________​________

7) God is spiritual and is proved with spiritual methods.

Atheists claim nothing spiritual exists, so yes, this statement is correct if we use the word 'proof' loosely. Proofs are generally considered logic-orientated though, and spirtual methods are not logical.
_____________________________________________________________​_____________

8) Logical proof of God.

Perfection in the Creation:

How can it be that everything is so perfect?

The world is clearly not perfect; otherwise why would atheists exist?

The quest for the meaning of life:

Humans always needs something to live for because it's not enough to just exist.

It is for some people. The meaning of life is arbitrary; a God is not needed for it.

The inner void:

Stop using sentimentalism; some people feel they are unhappy, and that's the void that is present; the absence of happiness. I have met many people without such a void.

The personal experience of God:

You often hear believers say: "I've experienced God". So many people can witness about the presence of God that it simply cannot be made up.

Argumentum ad Populum (numerical fallacy); yes it can be made up, please see 'Mass Hysteria', which is when a large group of people are affected by the same delusion due to crowd effects, which are genetically present as they assist survival. People say they experience God because it makes them feel better that he exists, not because it is true, but because it makes them happy; there is a distinction.
_____________________________________________________________​__

9) Einstein and Strindberg. Wise men!

"When I read the Bhagavad-Gita and reflect about how God created this universe everything else seems so superfluous." Albert Einstein

"It's just as illogical to believe in the world but deny God, as it is to believe in the shoe but deny the shoemaker" August Strindberg

''About God, I cannot accept any concept based on the authority of the Church. As long as I can remember, I have resented mass indoctrination. I do not believe in the fear of life, in the fear of death, in blind faith. I cannot prove to you that there is no personal God, but if I were to speak of him, I would be a liar. I do not believe in the God of theology who rewards good and punishes evil. My God created laws that take care of that. His universe is not ruled by wishful thinking, but by immutable laws''.

- Albert Einstein.

Not only that, but many people seem to think that Albert Einstein is an authority in everything; he was one of the smartest physicists that has probably ever lived; that does not mean he knew everything, or was prone to human error; I'm pretty sure I'd know many facts Albert didn't. It's irrelevant in his case, he was not a theist either, but a deist; it's just Christian/Jewish stupidity that has led them to believe he was one of them.


_____________________________________________________________​___

What do you say folks?
 Quoting: Vinyard


I say you need to get your head sorted, and do something called study.

Sunder - Ex-theist.
 Quoting: Sunder


I see you need to get your HEART sorted.

Do something called HUMILITY and LOVE and knock of the condecending snide arrogant remarks.

It never ceases to amaze me HOW EVIL christians are whilst claiming to be GOOD.

Always gotta look DOWN the nose at others and MOCK them condecendingly.

You say you represent LIGHT?

PRACTICe IT THEN!
Anonymous Coward
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06/30/2012 05:19 PM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
(I AM NOT ATHEIST)



The atheists credo - - - -

We believe in one Matter,
The almighty, the omnipotent
Maker of the whole universe
Of all that is seen and unseen
We believe in one Cosmic Egg
The only Son of Matter
Eternally begotten of Matter
Matter from Matter, Energy from Energy,
True Matter from True Matter
Begotten not made,
Of one being with Matter
Through the Egg all things were made
For us men and for our evolution
It formed itself in the heavens
By the power of the Energy it became incarnate into virgin space, and was made Egg
For our sake, it exploded in a singularity,
expanded, and expanded and became everything
In accordance with the ‘Big Bang’ story
It spread across the heavens and evolved into galaxies
It will continue in glory
Until the ultimate heat death
We believe in the Energy, the giver of life, which proceeds from the Matter and the Egg
With the Matter and the Egg it is worshipped and glorified
It has been revealed by the atheists
We believe in one, secular humanist and Darwinian faith
We acknowledge one, atheistic viewpoint for the education of all.
We look for the oblivion of the dead
And the destruction of the world to come.
Amen
Sunder

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06/30/2012 05:25 PM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
I see you need to get your HEART sorted.

Do something called HUMILITY and LOVE and knock of the condecending snide arrogant remarks.

It never ceases to amaze me HOW EVIL christians are whilst claiming to be GOOD.

Always gotta look DOWN the nose at others and MOCK them condecendingly.

You say you represent LIGHT?

PRACTICe IT THEN!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18117055


Please utilise logic; not sentimentalism, thank you kindly.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
(I AM NOT ATHEIST)



The atheists credo - - - -

We believe in one Matter,
The almighty, the omnipotent
Maker of the whole universe
Of all that is seen and unseen
We believe in one Cosmic Egg
The only Son of Matter
Eternally begotten of Matter
Matter from Matter, Energy from Energy,
True Matter from True Matter
Begotten not made,
Of one being with Matter
Through the Egg all things were made
For us men and for our evolution
It formed itself in the heavens
By the power of the Energy it became incarnate into virgin space, and was made Egg
For our sake, it exploded in a singularity,
expanded, and expanded and became everything
In accordance with the ‘Big Bang’ story
It spread across the heavens and evolved into galaxies
It will continue in glory
Until the ultimate heat death
We believe in the Energy, the giver of life, which proceeds from the Matter and the Egg
With the Matter and the Egg it is worshipped and glorified
It has been revealed by the atheists
We believe in one, secular humanist and Darwinian faith
We acknowledge one, atheistic viewpoint for the education of all.
We look for the oblivion of the dead
And the destruction of the world to come.
Amen
 Quoting: Chop's


Sorry dumbass, but an atheist does not believe in a creator. Whatever proclaimed atheist you are pasting from has created his own religion.

That was extraneous bullshit.
deano
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06/30/2012 05:27 PM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
I am not christian or athiest, but i believe god is in everything. Everything is at a sub atomic level moving energy, from solid objects thru to trees, birds, you and me etc etc, i believe this constantly moving energy in all things is god. God sees everything, because god is everything, basic i know, now go and google higgs boson :)
Anonymous Coward
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
Vinyard, you are wise beyond your years and you have no need to apologise for your English. I hope you don't mind but I copied your original post to print out & meditate over. I'll get back later. Bless you!
 Quoting: Wonko the Sane


Congrats, OP you have gained "Prophet" status in this tard's mind. I hope you are happy in usurping the glory of the LORD ALMIGHTY.
Anonymous Coward
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06/30/2012 05:42 PM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
the christians are wrong...end of story

& religion has ALOT of blood on its hands.

you have NO respect from me.

if it was a case of you believing in elves & noone was getting hurt, i wouldnt give a shit.

but millions on millions of people have died/been fucked up by the delusion of religion.

give it up already.
Sir Phydeau

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06/30/2012 06:54 PM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
This will not end well.
"When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?" — John M. Keynes
"The way to see by [blind] faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Benjamin Franklin
The Self Defining Hebrew System: [link to www.thechronicleproject.org]
Real men keep Torah.
Knighted into the Army of Yahuwah on 10-9-10.

Avinu shebashamayim, yitkadesh shimkha. Tavo malkhutekha ye'aseh r'tzonekha ba'aretz ka'asher na'asah vashamayimTen-lanu haiyom lechem chukeinu. u'selach-lanu et-ashmateinu ka'asher solechim anachnu la'asher ashmu lanu. Ve'al-tevieinu lidei massah, ki im-hatsileinu min-hara. Ki lekha ha-mamlakha vehagevurah veha-tiferet l'olemei olamim. Amen.
bendinglight

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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
sheeplechristiantruthisallaround
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06/30/2012 07:00 PM

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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
OP, you've made a ridiculous amount of logical errors, so let me sift them for you.

___________________________________________________________​____

CONTENTS:

1) Atheist: Who created God?

^ No smart atheist is stupid enough to ask this question; if something doesn't exist, it's pointless to ask who created it. There is no creator of a non-existent Bench.

2) Atheist: God does not exist?

^ That's not even a question, that's a premise. Smart atheists do not assert God does not exist, but that we cannot know if a God exists, because we do not have evidence for him, so it is pointless to believe in one.

3) Atheist: The existence of God is illogical!

4) Atheist: Can God create a rock...

5) Atheist: Prove God!

^Burden of proof; null hypothesis is the negation. It's the same as saying "Prove Bigfoot!"; because the default logical state is to assume Bigfoot doesn't exist.

6) Atheist: I only believe in what I can see and touch.

7) God is spiritual and is proved with spiritual methods.

8) Logical proof of God.

You can't prove God logically; otherwise there would be no dispute about it. Logic is pretty rock solid and defined mathematically; don't even pretend your God can be mathematically demonstrated.

9) Einstein and Strindberg. Wise men!
_____________________________________________________________​_


1) Atheist: Who created God?

Consult above, this is a dumb argument from a dumb atheist; smart atheists would not use this as an argument. If something doesn't exist, it's pointless to ask who created it. There is no creator of a non-existent Bench.
_____________________________________________________________​___

2) Atheist: God does not exist!


You're correct that this is only a premise and it's wrong to assume it true, but it's also wrong to assume "God exists" is true; the middle ground is better: "We don't know." Gnostic Atheists believe this, and they're generally considered stupid. The average smart atheist is an Agnostic Atheist. (Before any retarded 'agnostics' jump in, gnosticism/agnosticism is not a religion, it's an assertion of what you know (source: dictionary); atheism is not 'the disbelief in God' but 'the lack of belief in God' which are two different things.
_____________________________________________________________​___

3) Atheist: The existence of God is illogical.

If you think that it's illogical for God to exist, did you ever stop to think the same thing about yourself? Do you think it's logial for you to exist? Why is your own existence more logical than God's? To believe that our own existence came about without an existing cause is the same as believing that sunrays can exist without the sun.

There are three fundamental assertions:

1. I exist.
2. I can learn things from the experiences I have around me.
3. Predictive models are better than non-predictive models.

You cannot start philosophy without having those 3 core beliefs, because otherwise everything is an incoherent mess. It is more logical for me to exist than God because you can observe me, and you cannot observe a God. Also, this isn't more an attack on the argument rather than your scientific illiteracy, but sunrays can exist without the sun; they're a form of radiation and it can be generated from other places (we just give them different names but they are in essence the same thing).



_____________________________________________________________​___

4) Atheist: Can God create a rock so heavy He cannot lift it Himself? And if he can't lift it, he's not almighty.


Reference to number 1; it's stupid to ask a question about something that does not exist.
_____________________________________________________________​___

5) Atheist: Prove God!

Atheists always demand God to appear Himself in front of their eyes before they will start believing. This is simply pride and God does not answer prideful challenges just as much as the President of USA would pay you a visit without you giving him any worthy qualifications which caught his attention.

It is not pride; we just need evidence something exists before we believe in it; the President DOES give us evidence he exists; he has actions he executes, public letters, etc. Your God doesn't; he didn't write scripture, people did, claiming they were inspired from him.

Ask yourself this: Do you, as an atheist, deserve to have a personal visit by the Almighty? What are your qualifications?

Surely he's capable of providing such a visit; he's infinite, so it should be no effort for him.

When you can't even get the President of USA to pay you a visit, what makes you think God would appear in His all Greatness in front of your very eyes?

I don't claim the President is infinitely powerful.

It's the opposite. Atheists despise God, they spit on Him and do not want to get rid of their illusion that God does not exist.

I despise liars and bullshitters; you are the one who is deluded, as demonstrated by all these logical errors.

They want it to stay that way and because God does not interfere with the free will, the atheist will never feel the presence of God until he change his attitude.

That doesn't seem like free will; if I need a certain attitude in order to see/feel something, that seems like submission. You religious have a saying don't you: "Submit to the lord. Serve the lord."

For the atheist, God will prove His existence when it's too late, when you're dead.

Doesn't seem like a moral thing to do to me, seems like God would rather I be burnt rather than him to do the simple thing and show he exists.

You cannot *see* God until you *realize*.

Just as you apparently cannot see logic unless it's pointed out to you, you're just rambling religious babble by this point.

Remember that. You must realize that God is essential and that His existence is the foundation of everything that is.

Clearly not; I seem to be living a happy, godless life. I have a loving girlfriend, money, and friends. I do charity work and I help those around me. I stay true to the law and to my values. These are the important things in life, not religion.

You can never prove or convince an atheist about God or anything other that's spiritual because that atheist is spiritual blind.

So you claim God made me that way, and that I'm going to be punished for it by God; that makes God an immoral being does it not?
_____________________________________________________________​_______

6) Atheist: I only believe in what I can see and touch.

Can you see, hear or touch your thoughts?
Can you see, hear or touch your intelligence?
Can you see, hear or touch your conciousness?

Let's break this down by replacing "see and touch" with "observe" which is a better scientific descriptor. We can observe our thoughts, it's the electron transfer in mental neurons; if you need proof, we can smash up a brain and it will stop a person from thinking. This happens in every case. I'll ignore the rest of this because it's just insulting and crude.
_____________________________________________________________​________

7) God is spiritual and is proved with spiritual methods.

Atheists claim nothing spiritual exists, so yes, this statement is correct if we use the word 'proof' loosely. Proofs are generally considered logic-orientated though, and spirtual methods are not logical.
_____________________________________________________________​_____________

8) Logical proof of God.

Perfection in the Creation:

How can it be that everything is so perfect?

The world is clearly not perfect; otherwise why would atheists exist?

The quest for the meaning of life:

Humans always needs something to live for because it's not enough to just exist.

It is for some people. The meaning of life is arbitrary; a God is not needed for it.

The inner void:

Stop using sentimentalism; some people feel they are unhappy, and that's the void that is present; the absence of happiness. I have met many people without such a void.

The personal experience of God:

You often hear believers say: "I've experienced God". So many people can witness about the presence of God that it simply cannot be made up.

Argumentum ad Populum (numerical fallacy); yes it can be made up, please see 'Mass Hysteria', which is when a large group of people are affected by the same delusion due to crowd effects, which are genetically present as they assist survival. People say they experience God because it makes them feel better that he exists, not because it is true, but because it makes them happy; there is a distinction.
_____________________________________________________________​__

9) Einstein and Strindberg. Wise men!

"When I read the Bhagavad-Gita and reflect about how God created this universe everything else seems so superfluous." Albert Einstein

"It's just as illogical to believe in the world but deny God, as it is to believe in the shoe but deny the shoemaker" August Strindberg

''About God, I cannot accept any concept based on the authority of the Church. As long as I can remember, I have resented mass indoctrination. I do not believe in the fear of life, in the fear of death, in blind faith. I cannot prove to you that there is no personal God, but if I were to speak of him, I would be a liar. I do not believe in the God of theology who rewards good and punishes evil. My God created laws that take care of that. His universe is not ruled by wishful thinking, but by immutable laws''.

- Albert Einstein.

Not only that, but many people seem to think that Albert Einstein is an authority in everything; he was one of the smartest physicists that has probably ever lived; that does not mean he knew everything, or was prone to human error; I'm pretty sure I'd know many facts Albert didn't. It's irrelevant in his case, he was not a theist either, but a deist; it's just Christian/Jewish stupidity that has led them to believe he was one of them.


_____________________________________________________________​___

What do you say folks?
 Quoting: Vinyard


I say you need to get your head sorted, and do something called study.

Sunder - Ex-theist.
 Quoting: Sunder


I would not have taken the time to write all that because 99.9% of the religious people will ignore it anyway but nonetheless, I fully agree with your response. Nicely written.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
First, you must know some pretty simpleminded atheists if those are the sort of questions you get.

They sound more like questions some Christian evangelist would claim atheists ask in order to deliver his trite patronizing rhetoric.

Secondly... KEN HOVIND?

Really?
At this stage we're still getting links to Ken Hovind?

Ken "arrested on 58 charges of fraud and tax evasion" Hovind...
That's who you use as the backbone of your thread?


Fair enough but I am forced to question his integrity given his history, anyway back to your questions...

TBH, I never ask any of those questions you posit as common atheist inquiries.
But here's a question I do sometimes ask people like you... what kind of God allows Josef Fritzel's daughter to suffer twenty years of rape and captivity at the hands of her father?

What was the "divine" plan for her and all the other countless souls suffering like her right this second?

You don't think they are praying, begging God to help them... but for most of them, for 99% of them... God is callously silent.

What possible lesson did God want her to learn and could only be delivered by twenty years of rape, every single day for two decades of her life?
For her to give birth to his children and then have them forced to watch?

How DARE you preach this drivel about a compassionate God in the face of such suffering, what cheek, what arrogance, what blindness.

I'm sure God works in mysterious ways and all, but I'm just asking you to speculate, hypothesize for us, wonder aloud... what was your all loving compassionate God trying to teach that girl?

Your God created all of existence knowing that one day that girl would be in that basement... Please, justify that with your faith if you can and demonstrate the utter arrogance and lack of any real compassion that typifies the religous believer.

You make yourself feel better with warm and fluffy stories about a caring God benevolently watching over his children... You just ignore the vast unimaginable scale of innocent suffering in the world.

A single child doesn't die in a burning building and you're all praising God's intervention while you ignore the other countless children enduring brutal horrific suffering every second of the day.

Religion isn't a crutch, it's a fluffy pillow you bury your face in and shut out the reality of existence because you can't cope any other way.

I trust my tone was civil enough for your thread, good day.
 Quoting: The Ghost of Hitch 15489233


Its spiritual growth ever heard of it? of course not because you dont beleive in God,your spirit goes through things the worse things the more it grows, see you are to much worried about the physical plane and not the spirtual this life means nothing compared to the after life the real life the true you the true reality. you are in an illusion right now and you are beleiving this illusion does it matter what happens to the physical body? As God said dont worry about what happens to the physical body they can not destroy the spirit.people get caught up in this world like its going to last forever,they act like this is it for them and thats the way you think, because you have no faith thats there is an after life.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
OP, you've made a ridiculous amount of logical errors, so let me sift them for you.

___________________________________________________________​____

CONTENTS:

1) Atheist: Who created God?

^ No smart atheist is stupid enough to ask this question; if something doesn't exist, it's pointless to ask who created it. There is no creator of a non-existent Bench.

2) Atheist: God does not exist?

^ That's not even a question, that's a premise. Smart atheists do not assert God does not exist, but that we cannot know if a God exists, because we do not have evidence for him, so it is pointless to believe in one.

3) Atheist: The existence of God is illogical!

4) Atheist: Can God create a rock...

5) Atheist: Prove God!

^Burden of proof; null hypothesis is the negation. It's the same as saying "Prove Bigfoot!"; because the default logical state is to assume Bigfoot doesn't exist.

6) Atheist: I only believe in what I can see and touch.

7) God is spiritual and is proved with spiritual methods.

8) Logical proof of God.

You can't prove God logically; otherwise there would be no dispute about it. Logic is pretty rock solid and defined mathematically; don't even pretend your God can be mathematically demonstrated.

9) Einstein and Strindberg. Wise men!
_____________________________________________________________​_


1) Atheist: Who created God?

Consult above, this is a dumb argument from a dumb atheist; smart atheists would not use this as an argument. If something doesn't exist, it's pointless to ask who created it. There is no creator of a non-existent Bench.
_____________________________________________________________​___

2) Atheist: God does not exist!


You're correct that this is only a premise and it's wrong to assume it true, but it's also wrong to assume "God exists" is true; the middle ground is better: "We don't know." Gnostic Atheists believe this, and they're generally considered stupid. The average smart atheist is an Agnostic Atheist. (Before any retarded 'agnostics' jump in, gnosticism/agnosticism is not a religion, it's an assertion of what you know (source: dictionary); atheism is not 'the disbelief in God' but 'the lack of belief in God' which are two different things.
_____________________________________________________________​___

3) Atheist: The existence of God is illogical.

If you think that it's illogical for God to exist, did you ever stop to think the same thing about yourself? Do you think it's logial for you to exist? Why is your own existence more logical than God's? To believe that our own existence came about without an existing cause is the same as believing that sunrays can exist without the sun.

There are three fundamental assertions:

1. I exist.
2. I can learn things from the experiences I have around me.
3. Predictive models are better than non-predictive models.

You cannot start philosophy without having those 3 core beliefs, because otherwise everything is an incoherent mess. It is more logical for me to exist than God because you can observe me, and you cannot observe a God. Also, this isn't more an attack on the argument rather than your scientific illiteracy, but sunrays can exist without the sun; they're a form of radiation and it can be generated from other places (we just give them different names but they are in essence the same thing).



_____________________________________________________________​___

4) Atheist: Can God create a rock so heavy He cannot lift it Himself? And if he can't lift it, he's not almighty.


Reference to number 1; it's stupid to ask a question about something that does not exist.
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5) Atheist: Prove God!

Atheists always demand God to appear Himself in front of their eyes before they will start believing. This is simply pride and God does not answer prideful challenges just as much as the President of USA would pay you a visit without you giving him any worthy qualifications which caught his attention.

It is not pride; we just need evidence something exists before we believe in it; the President DOES give us evidence he exists; he has actions he executes, public letters, etc. Your God doesn't; he didn't write scripture, people did, claiming they were inspired from him.

Ask yourself this: Do you, as an atheist, deserve to have a personal visit by the Almighty? What are your qualifications?

Surely he's capable of providing such a visit; he's infinite, so it should be no effort for him.

When you can't even get the President of USA to pay you a visit, what makes you think God would appear in His all Greatness in front of your very eyes?

I don't claim the President is infinitely powerful.

It's the opposite. Atheists despise God, they spit on Him and do not want to get rid of their illusion that God does not exist.

I despise liars and bullshitters; you are the one who is deluded, as demonstrated by all these logical errors.

They want it to stay that way and because God does not interfere with the free will, the atheist will never feel the presence of God until he change his attitude.

That doesn't seem like free will; if I need a certain attitude in order to see/feel something, that seems like submission. You religious have a saying don't you: "Submit to the lord. Serve the lord."

For the atheist, God will prove His existence when it's too late, when you're dead.

Doesn't seem like a moral thing to do to me, seems like God would rather I be burnt rather than him to do the simple thing and show he exists.

You cannot *see* God until you *realize*.

Just as you apparently cannot see logic unless it's pointed out to you, you're just rambling religious babble by this point.

Remember that. You must realize that God is essential and that His existence is the foundation of everything that is.

Clearly not; I seem to be living a happy, godless life. I have a loving girlfriend, money, and friends. I do charity work and I help those around me. I stay true to the law and to my values. These are the important things in life, not religion.

You can never prove or convince an atheist about God or anything other that's spiritual because that atheist is spiritual blind.

So you claim God made me that way, and that I'm going to be punished for it by God; that makes God an immoral being does it not?
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6) Atheist: I only believe in what I can see and touch.

Can you see, hear or touch your thoughts?
Can you see, hear or touch your intelligence?
Can you see, hear or touch your conciousness?

Let's break this down by replacing "see and touch" with "observe" which is a better scientific descriptor. We can observe our thoughts, it's the electron transfer in mental neurons; if you need proof, we can smash up a brain and it will stop a person from thinking. This happens in every case. I'll ignore the rest of this because it's just insulting and crude.
_____________________________________________________________​________

7) God is spiritual and is proved with spiritual methods.

Atheists claim nothing spiritual exists, so yes, this statement is correct if we use the word 'proof' loosely. Proofs are generally considered logic-orientated though, and spirtual methods are not logical.
_____________________________________________________________​_____________

8) Logical proof of God.

Perfection in the Creation:

How can it be that everything is so perfect?

The world is clearly not perfect; otherwise why would atheists exist?

The quest for the meaning of life:

Humans always needs something to live for because it's not enough to just exist.

It is for some people. The meaning of life is arbitrary; a God is not needed for it.

The inner void:

Stop using sentimentalism; some people feel they are unhappy, and that's the void that is present; the absence of happiness. I have met many people without such a void.

The personal experience of God:

You often hear believers say: "I've experienced God". So many people can witness about the presence of God that it simply cannot be made up.

Argumentum ad Populum (numerical fallacy); yes it can be made up, please see 'Mass Hysteria', which is when a large group of people are affected by the same delusion due to crowd effects, which are genetically present as they assist survival. People say they experience God because it makes them feel better that he exists, not because it is true, but because it makes them happy; there is a distinction.
_____________________________________________________________​__

9) Einstein and Strindberg. Wise men!

"When I read the Bhagavad-Gita and reflect about how God created this universe everything else seems so superfluous." Albert Einstein

"It's just as illogical to believe in the world but deny God, as it is to believe in the shoe but deny the shoemaker" August Strindberg

''About God, I cannot accept any concept based on the authority of the Church. As long as I can remember, I have resented mass indoctrination. I do not believe in the fear of life, in the fear of death, in blind faith. I cannot prove to you that there is no personal God, but if I were to speak of him, I would be a liar. I do not believe in the God of theology who rewards good and punishes evil. My God created laws that take care of that. His universe is not ruled by wishful thinking, but by immutable laws''.

- Albert Einstein.

Not only that, but many people seem to think that Albert Einstein is an authority in everything; he was one of the smartest physicists that has probably ever lived; that does not mean he knew everything, or was prone to human error; I'm pretty sure I'd know many facts Albert didn't. It's irrelevant in his case, he was not a theist either, but a deist; it's just Christian/Jewish stupidity that has led them to believe he was one of them.


_____________________________________________________________​___

What do you say folks?
 Quoting: Vinyard


I say you need to get your head sorted, and do something called study.

Sunder - Ex-theist.
 Quoting: Sunder


I would not have taken the time to write all that because 99.9% of the religious people will ignore it anyway but nonetheless, I fully agree with your response. Nicely written.
 Quoting: Psych


Isnt that the point you have to have faith? wouldnt it be better to beleive in God and have faith like the Bible ask you to? what if God does exist and seeing you had no faith you do end up in Hell? why not just beleive its not hard and live right? then if God does exist you get rewarded and if god doent exist then you didnt lose anything. to me it seems most people live right,descent lives so the onlything that would keep you out of Heaven is your faith that Jesus died on the cross for your sins.and in that case itseems to be ego that keeps people from beleiving in Go, they seem like i would hurt their pride if they were to beleie in a higher power han themselves.so you live right,you have faith hat there has got to be something bigger than this life you beleive that theson of God died for your sins so you can go to Heaven.simple.wouldnt it suck to olive life good be a nice person etc... then go to hell becase you had no Faith in the one who created you?just do it beleive in God have bind faith, if hes not there big deal but if he is there then you will have eternity in paradise.
evilalien

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06/30/2012 07:28 PM

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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
im not an atheist because of any of those arguments,i was brought up a christian but slowly i came to put my "faith" in science,if i break a leg i trust science and go to the hospital,if one of my kids is sick likewise.i turn on the switch and the lights come on,sit here typing on the lap top and ya'll can read it!sure i believe what "scientists" tell me even if i don't understand it but my life experience has shown me that doing so is usually the safest course,as in when my mum had a big stomach op last year,nearly died,i have no idea what the surgeons did but now shes fine.i've never had any experience to show me that god exists,gives a shit about me,the world,anything let alone should be worshiped,in fact ive never got how a being so intelligent could be so spiteful!but anyway!
im no great scholar and don't expect to be able to make any christians see why i think what i do,its just my two pennies worth..for what its worth!
Anonymous Coward
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06/30/2012 07:32 PM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
Why do people automatically assume that there has to be a creator to everything? WHY must the universe have an original cause? Why can it just not BE? Why do you believe that GOD created time, space and matter? What if the universe just _IS_? As in; it was never created but has just BEEN? Note; Never created - Time does not exist in this sense. Same with life - be it in form of microbacterias or whatever. Perhaps it has always existed - it just IS. No original cause. It just evovled with time and is what you see today. It's called evolution man.

And your "Atheist questions" are just simply stupid. Never have I encountered an atheist who said "THERE IS NO GOD" - simply "I do not believe in GOD".
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9671842


Why would you want to beleive that this life is it? why would you want to beleive that you live on this shitty earth for 70-80 years then die and blackness? what kind of sense would that make?life would be pointless. there would be nothing to look forward to that woul suck.so when babies are born then die they never got to experience life wouldnt it be nice if they went to heaven where they could have eternity in peace? like I said this life would be pointless if there is no after life,why people would look forward to nothing after death is beyond me.maybe you think if you beleive there is no after life then you wont have to worry about there being a hell.
Illuminatvs Primvs

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06/30/2012 07:39 PM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
Life and death are not written on a page
"13013"
Anonymous Coward
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06/30/2012 07:39 PM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
im not an atheist because of any of those arguments,i was brought up a christian but slowly i came to put my "faith" in science,if i break a leg i trust science and go to the hospital,if one of my kids is sick likewise.i turn on the switch and the lights come on,sit here typing on the lap top and ya'll can read it!sure i believe what "scientists" tell me even if i don't understand it but my life experience has shown me that doing so is usually the safest course,as in when my mum had a big stomach op last year,nearly died,i have no idea what the surgeons did but now shes fine.i've never had any experience to show me that god exists,gives a shit about me,the world,anything let alone should be worshiped,in fact ive never got how a being so intelligent could be so spiteful!but anyway!
im no great scholar and don't expect to be able to make any christians see why i think what i do,its just my two pennies worth..for what its worth!
 Quoting: evilalien


your mom got sick and you call God spitful? hey we are humans weare meant to die,what you think people live forever? you want eternity in Heaven you beleive.your going to live for eternity weather you like it or not the question is Heaven or Hell.God never showed you he cared? prove it!!! How do you know maybe he saved you or your mom,maybe he helped you find your wife,maybe he gave you something that made you happy or do you beleive you gave yourself those things you are your own God? God doesnt come down and hand you stuff on a silver platter nor should he,he doesnt have to prove anything to you or anyone else,its your job to prove to him you are worthy to be in his Heaven not the other way around.if your mom doesnt beleve you might want to get her beleiving soon just in case God does exist you wouldnt want to take that chance that she goes somewhere that she doesnt want to be.Man it never fails how you people want the one who created you t prove something to you like you are special,no you prove to him that you deserve is forgiveness.One day when you are in Hell and wishing you had one minute on Earth to ask god for forgiveness it will suck,because once you die theres no hope for you.Get over yourself and your ego.
Anonymous Coward
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06/30/2012 07:43 PM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
I would not have taken the time to write all that because 99.9% of the religious people will ignore it anyway but nonetheless, I fully agree with your response. Nicely written.
 Quoting: Psych


It's true, but I feel it's best to post it anyway; maybe somebody will read it, they might actually understand.

Isnt that the point you have to have faith? wouldnt it be better to beleive in God and have faith like the Bible ask you to? what if God does exist and seeing you had no faith you do end up in Hell? why not just beleive its not hard and live right? then if God does exist you get rewarded and if god doent exist then you didnt lose anything. to me it seems most people live right,descent lives so the onlything that would keep you out of Heaven is your faith that Jesus died on the cross for your sins.and in that case itseems to be ego that keeps people from beleiving in Go, they seem like i would hurt their pride if they were to beleie in a higher power han themselves.so you live right,you have faith hat there has got to be something bigger than this life you beleive that theson of God died for your sins so you can go to Heaven.simple.wouldnt it suck to olive life good be a nice person etc... then go to hell becase you had no Faith in the one who created you?just do it beleive in God have bind faith, if hes not there big deal but if he is there then you will have eternity in paradise.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8184396


The argument you are describing is known in contemporary philosophy as Pascal's Wager, and it is such an old argument I'm pretty surprised theists are still using it when it was debunked ages ago.

The reason it doesn't work is that Pascal's Wager assumes there are only 2 choices; their God, or atheism. This is not true; there are an infinite number of permutations of invisible gods; this is obvious by the fact there are 1000s of interpretations of Christianity; but not only that, there are Muslims, jewish people, faiths known and unknown, etc. We're not making a choice between those; Christians according to Muslims go to hell, and vise versa. The only difference between an atheist and a theist is that we believe in one less god than you, out of an infinite number. The reason atheists exist is because we believe in truth; we know that we do not know about questions like "why things exist" or "does a god exist". We simply choose not to believe in things we cannot actively use in our daily lives (don't get confused here; we mean stuff like technology and moral practice). To live a moral life, it is not necessary to believe in a God, in fact, it is obvious that the more moral thing to do is not to believe; since belief entails divison among people, and intolerance.
Sunder

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06/30/2012 07:46 PM
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Re: A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)
I would not have taken the time to write all that because 99.9% of the religious people will ignore it anyway but nonetheless, I fully agree with your response. Nicely written.
 Quoting: Psych


It's true, but I feel it's best to post it anyway; maybe somebody will read it, they might actually understand.

Isnt that the point you have to have faith? wouldnt it be better to beleive in God and have faith like the Bible ask you to? what if God does exist and seeing you had no faith you do end up in Hell? why not just beleive its not hard and live right? then if God does exist you get rewarded and if god doent exist then you didnt lose anything. to me it seems most people live right,descent lives so the onlything that would keep you out of Heaven is your faith that Jesus died on the cross for your sins.and in that case itseems to be ego that keeps people from beleiving in Go, they seem like i would hurt their pride if they were to beleie in a higher power han themselves.so you live right,you have faith hat there has got to be something bigger than this life you beleive that theson of God died for your sins so you can go to Heaven.simple.wouldnt it suck to olive life good be a nice person etc... then go to hell becase you had no Faith in the one who created you?just do it beleive in God have bind faith, if hes not there big deal but if he is there then you will have eternity in paradise.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8184396


The argument you are describing is known in contemporary philosophy as Pascal's Wager, and it is such an old argument I'm pretty surprised theists are still using it when it was debunked ages ago.

The reason it doesn't work is that Pascal's Wager assumes there are only 2 choices; their God, or atheism. This is not true; there are an infinite number of permutations of invisible gods; this is obvious by the fact there are 1000s of interpretations of Christianity; but not only that, there are Muslims, jewish people, faiths known and unknown, etc. We're not making a choice between those; Christians according to Muslims go to hell, and vise versa. The only difference between an atheist and a theist is that we believe in one less god than you, out of an infinite number. The reason atheists exist is because we believe in truth; we know that we do not know about questions like "why things exist" or "does a god exist". We simply choose not to believe in things we cannot actively use in our daily lives (don't get confused here; we mean stuff like technology and moral practice). To live a moral life, it is not necessary to believe in a God, in fact, it is obvious that the more moral thing to do is not to believe; since belief entails divison among people, and intolerance.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18851732


(Last comment was made by me, accidentally posted anonymously).

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