A Christian's opinion about Atheists arguments against the existence of God. (Discussion thread)

You are so right. In Genesis Chapter One we are introduced to an entity known only as `God.` We see this entity mentioned again in Gen 5:2. In Gen. 2:4 we`re introduced to this damn wanna be, psychopathic, murderous entity known as `the LORD God.` This is NOT the same god as in Genesis Chapter One!! In law, anything that appears in ALL CAPITAL LETTERS is fiction!! What does that tell you about YHWH, LORD, etc.,? They`re all FICTION!! Now go to Mathew 1:25 and see what you find there. Yes, that`s right - JESUS is spelled in ALL CAPITAL LETTERS = Fiction!!

yes but bible god is not always God. It can't be, look at exodus 21 and you'll see the difference between them.


You are so right. In Genesis Chapter One we are introduced to an entity known only as `God.` We see this entity mentioned again in Gen 5:2. In Gen. 2:4 we`re introduced to this damn wanna be, psychopathic, murderous entity known as `the LORD God.` This is NOT the same god as in Genesis Chapter One!! In law, anything that appears in ALL CAPITAL LETTERS is fiction!! What does that tell you about YHWH, LORD, etc.,? They`re all FICTION!! Now go to Mathew 1:25 and see what you find there. Yes, that`s right - JESUS is spelled in ALL CAPITAL LETTERS = Fiction!!


I do believe in God, but he is not in all the stories in the bible. Those quotes from god were told by Moses who could have easily transmitted his personal views not God views. If they were really told by someone to moses that couldn't have been god, if they were told by moses himself.... I don't understand what you mean about capital letters.

Ancient knowledge is just that...ancient, and it is limited to the people dispensing of that knowledge. True wisdom comes from God, it originates from His mind, will and purpose of which we are all a part of. All we see, whether spirit or matter, is created by Him, and thus all creation bears His signature.

Look at how mankind pursues our technology. We desire to be godlike in our ultimate pursuits. We create robots to look like us and we envision if only we could create beings with the best of human qualities, all of our strengths but none of our weaknesses, because we all know how that weakness causes us problems. We were created in the image of God; therefore we will emulate God in our creativity, our desires for companionship, and the desire to pro-create.

The Atheist seeks for conformation that He exists, I conclude the Atheist is blind, and can only see what is of matter, and then concludes that spirit does not exist because he cannot see or feel it. But those of us who know wisdom, know that spirit is percieved differently.

All that is needed for mankind to know God is to fulfill the requirements of doing so.And those requirements are to seek Him with your whole heart. Only then will you be counted worthy to see and experience what Prophets, seers, and sages have known for generations. I need not ancient knowledge to guide me when I have divine inspiration.

Talking of Genesis, chapter 1, the first few words are rather controversial.

In the beginning?

Winged-Liar, there you go again - "His/He/Him" The Source of all Creation is NOT a "HE!!!!" Got that???? You should do a bit of research on the archons. The historical man known as "jesus" (not the biblical fraud) warned the masses of these entities. But, of course, you've been conditioned/programmed into believing anything to do with the Gnostic Jesus is the work of the "devil." It's your loss.

"Jerusalem is the dwelling place of many Archons," warns The Second Apocalypse of James from Nag Hammadi.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Meet your straw-man.

[link to www.google.ca]

If you look at any government issued ID, you will find the name always spelled in all UPPER CASE LETTERS - e.g. JOHN HENRY DOE

Have you not wondered why your government cannot use proper English grammar when dealing with names? There's a very good reason.

Of course I can make valid claims about things I haven't personally perceived--as I explained in my post. Humans couldn't survive otherwise. For example, I haven't perceived every piece of food in the world, yet I absolutely know certain types are poisonous. I haven't perceived every rooftop in the world, yet I absolutely know that if I jump off of one that I will be hurt or die.


Agnosticism is a cop-out. Leaving the door open to the make-believe is intellectually and philosophically dishonest. I know this because I used to call myself an agnostic.


"Experience the spiritual"? What is that? You mean you get feelings about something, right? And you interpret those emotions as meaning something about the world?

Emotions are not a valid method of cognition.

Are you that ignorant ? You are arguing semantics you are more concerned with being right than correct.

Que sera sera

So god is a jellyfish!?!? A man 'o war...hmmmmmmm

None of your arguments validate the Christian God. And only provide vague assumptions that can lead to deism.

1) If your god exists outside space/time then what makes you so certain it is actually a god and not for example something more comparable to a computer? That this universe came into being somehow is a fact. Presuming you know what caused it without making it clear how it happened is irrelevant. I prefer not being sure about the how/why then mindlessly presuming that the Christian god as exactly described in the Bible did it (what basis do you have other then the Bible that suggests this entire universe was just created for us? Who says we are not a "simple" byproduct of another process?)

2) God as described exactly in the Bible does not exist. Since if it would exist then its presence would be clearly documented by statistical evidence of prayers being answered (eg. statistical recovery rates of cancer patients would be higher amongst Christians). Stating there is nothing that we would describe as "a god" is indeed an assumption. What we can state however is that there is absolutely no evidence what so ever that there is one.

3) Indeed the existence of the God as exactly described in the Bible is illogical. Just as illogical as the gods described in the hindu sacred texts and for the same reasons.

4) This is a problem of omniscience and omnipresence. The example you gave is rather simplistic. I have more issues with god supposedly creating humans while knowing exactly everything that would happen in the future while supposedly torturing the majority for all eternity. Even though if he created us differently or if He would, you know, actually provide tangible evidence of his existence people would be tortured far less.

5) There are plenty other ways to prove the existence of the biblical God. See point 2, I agree with the statement argued from a non-theistic deist. But imho it is pointless to presume there HAS to be a deity.

6) ? There are plenty of things we can't see or touch directly that we are certain of that exists. Unlike the biblical god (eg atoms)....

7) How do you differentiate between different gods then? Why does your god exists but not the gods of Hinduism?

8) First 3 points don't offer any evidence of the biblical god. The 4th point directly offers evidence that the biblical god is not real since people of many many religions claim these "supernatural" occurrences. Also if God reveals himself to Christians how come Christianity managed to split into so many different sects that all believe in God differently? If they all were "inspired" by the same entity you would expect consistency.

9) ? What is your point?

God is omnipotent..all knowing and all seeing. He knew long before he created anyone that billions of beings he was about to create were destined to be tortured by being burnt alive forever by him in a place he created JUST for that purpose.

GOD PLANNED hell.

If He did not he is not all knowing.

He is also a TORTURE expert and has seen to it that the people in hell suffer to the UTMOST every second of their eternity..being so compassionate and merciful God also saw to it that there would be NO correction there..NO rehab..and NO WAY OUT..a Just and fair "Punishment of eternal duration for the mere sin of being created and born itno a world where life generally sux..followed by an even more suckful eternity.

But Jesus DIED to save us from this place he INTENDED us to go to..the place HE created to roast the vast majority of people alive in unbearable agony forever. He died to save us from HIS JUSTICE..to save us from HIMSELF really..after all..HE RUNS and MAINTAINS HELL..PLUS..he created every torture device there..HE creates the flames by the word of his mouth..HE knows every bit of agony that goes on there..and all those there DESERVE it..for being born HUMAN..in a fucked up crazy loveless world with about 20 million religions to choose and confuse..

But if we choose wrong..with our very LIMITED understanding of life or eternity..sorry..but you have to BURN.

Also..if you are born into a religion like islam or Bhuddism or some such..YOU WILL BURN as well..for DARING to be born to the wrong culture..wrong parents..and wrong religion..even though GOD chooses who gets born to who and where..cause if he did NOT choose..and you are born by MISTAKE into the wrong religion..then God is not all KNOWING and NOT in control at all.

So..its a fair system..IF you are a braindead, cold hearted, hate filled, egotistical, blood lusting, unjust, hypocritical CUNT.

In other words..you average hell beleiving christian.

People build prisons as punishment and if you blame God for all the evil on earth you have to praise God for all the good on earth.

Hell is not a place, hell is the grave and eternal seperation from God....an eternal hell would make God unjust, but according to the bible itself, hell did not preexist and was never created. From beginning to end, the Bible is absolutely silent about either the preexistence or creation of hell.

The problem lies with the Bible stating that God is love.

1 John 4:7-8 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.

Psalm 86:15 But you, O Lord, are a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness.

Jeremiah 29:11 For I know the plans I have for you, declares the LORD, plans for welfare and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope.

Etc. etc.

It just doesn't add up if you factor in omniscience, omnipresence and omnipotence.

And again atheists do not believe that the God of the Bible does not exist in exactly the same manner that you don't believe in the Hindu pantheon. If your sole argument for not believing in Hinduism lies in the Bible then imho you are horribly shortsighted.

Try telling most christians that.

?

Presuming your god is the sole creator he was exactly aware of the circumstances that would create hell.

That hell is real is clear in the Bible (or better said that presuming the Bible is real then Hell must also be real (which I don't agree with)).

[link to bible.org]

Those that have been deceived into the Evolution Religion have a real problem with points like this.

As if any evolutionary processes of physical survival would drive us to be contemplating deeper meanings, or pondering guilt and regret, wondering if we did the right thing, and a host of other mental processes that define our consciousness.

There is so much innate proof that we are living within the framework our Creator's morals.

Nothing is going to "add up" if you're looking for any excuse to deny God's existence.

In this world, there are a million hooks to hang your doubts upon, and you are given the free will to delude yourself from the Truth in any way you desire.

Why do you think so many people have joined cults that preach that humans evolved from slime billions of years ago?

They are looking for any way to absolve themselves of judgement. To file it away until they're on their deathbed. "Gee, I wonder if I was right about that whole slime thing at the time.. it sounded good then, but not so sure now.."

The same could be said for you.. maybe you will think "Hey, maybe I should have tried to understand God's Word a little more instead of dismissing it because a few things didn't make sense to me right off..."

:5stars:

CONTENTS:

1) christians: Who created God? christiantiy created their gods, messiahs, "holy" books and icons;

2) christians: God does not exist? "he" exists in our "holy" books and religious beliefs;

3) christians: The existence of God is illogical! Only our god is logical, all other religion's god's are illogical;

4) christians: Can God create a rock... christianity created our god;

5) christians: Prove God! Our blind faith is proof of our god;

6) christians: I only believe in what I can see and touch. We only believe in our blind faith and false promises of that faith, i.e. eternal life in heaven;

7) God is spiritual and is proved with spiritual methods.
christians: religion is Spiritual fraud and Spiritually worthless;

8) Logical proof of God. christians: Our religious dogmas are logical for us;

9) Einstein and Strindberg. Wise men! True(!)

Here you have your answers from a christian p.o.v.(~).

God bless you!

Green pin for Sunday Discussion!
Excellent Thread OP!

You are right, I am a Christian, and for me atheists are also my brothers, I mean, we are all man, same people, from the same Source, God or Earth itself. It makes me sad to see Christians threating to atheist, you will burn in hell for all eternity, did Jesus taught that, absolutely not, he taught us to love one another no matter what..and he taught us to love all people not because that is God's will only, but because we really want to. Did Jesus taught us to argue, to fight in God's name, no, again he taught us to love, but what i see here on Glp, is that most Christians only love other Christians, and that is wrong. We should have respect for every single living soul, cos we are all connected, we live in the same world, we share the same home, we are the same people, the same Sun gives us all life, we drink the same water, we breathe the same air, we are the same no matter what belif we have.. Everyone finds his way, some find God, some science, some both, some this some that, but as long as we love one another it does NOT matter what is our belif. What created the universe, I don't know, but I know that we are here and now and that matters, what we will make out of this world depends on us, and hate and intolerance will lead us into failure, what we see today, and if we continue like this, it can only get worse. And as you are reading this, know that I Love You. Cheers brothers and sisters

Some other points of view...


New Ager / Moral Relativist: "There is no God. We are here yet nobody created us. Instead, everyone is a God because that makes me feel good and then I can do whatever I want.

God is only what you believe in your hearts. Even though all around us we see Absolutes(We exist), it's okay to be relative with ideas about our Creator because it feels better that way.

There can't be one True God, because then a bunch of us would be wrong and we're having fun worshiping other gods and ourselves.

Again, even though surrounding us are Absolutes, the truth is whatever we feel like making it and what works best for us personally. "



Evolutionist: "We came from slime because some people at the university told me so... I don't know where the slime came from."

Paranoia and denial are the sisters of enslavement, yet awareness is the mother of empowerment. Awareness requires one to openly assess all the relevant informa...tion then formulate a conclusion. "I'm sticking to my beliefs" is a choice to deny the relevant info that doesn't support your existing beliefs. This enslaves you to someone else's empowerment, because it is never in your best interest to allow others to have awareness over your world that you yourself do not have. ... If everything is a perception and my perception is there is a god why not have a positive perception?.. If two magnets or two magnetic currents are running against each other, both spiraling from opposite directions with a right hand twist, in a double helical fashion similar to DNA, when they reach the end of one another they must switch direction (polarity) so they can continue to move forward against each other with the same right hand twist. This what I see as natural alternating current (AC) or the reason why currents are alternating in nature. This also demonstrates the unipolar nature of the individual North and South pole magnet as well as that of magnetic current. As the creators of the universe these could be considered the real God particles.Thats why nature made us or god, gaia, any higher power you can understand. Too progress to develop enough technology to leave this planet

Why attempt arguing with someone with such a severe case of cranium-in-rectum disorder?

"For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."

Just walk away and pray for the healing of their disorder...

Christians vs. atheists.....who freaking cares.....both have it wrong and neither is willing to learn so again I ask, who freaking cares....Two tiny little groups of people who were left behind in spiritual discussion long long ago.

Here's a conspiracy thought for you, why do christians try so hard to proselytize atheists when they are told specifically that this is not their responsibility? A christian is never responsible for conversion if they bother going by their own holy book. Instead they are only ever asked to spread the message to each and every living person ONCE. After that, it's supposed to be in the hands of their god. You are not responsible for slowly changing the mind of an atheist by arguing with them over a period of months or years.

Only that's NEVER the end of it. Instead they want to go where "atheists" are (I think christians use that word incorrectly to describe non-belief in general, which is false) and harangue the atheists into conversion.

Just to clarify...

You're clearly not following God's Word if you are suggesting it's okay that one finds "his way" through science instead of God, or that God might NOT have created the universe... That's a pretty big error to make if you claim to be following Christ.


You are right, of course, that we are all God's children and we should love each other no matter what, but many Christians on this board have consistently stated that they are bugging people only out of love, to try and win their souls and bring them to Jesus Christ.

If Christians did NOT love you, you would never hear a word from them.

Yes, it can be offensive to have your comfort zone or belief system threatened. It's also offensive to be confronted about an unhealthy addiction. It's called Tough Love. :)

Is everything perception?

You yourself have just stated that those magnetic poles absolutely exist.

We can perceive their nature any way we like, but There They Are.

And where did the laws of magnetism originate?