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Isaac Asimov: Foundation and the pre-planned history? Do any of you see similarity with events?

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 15612608
India
05/06/2012 08:13 AM
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Re: Isaac Asimov: Foundation and the pre-planned history? Do any of you see similarity with events?
Did you read Isaac Asimov's Foundation?. You know the pre-planned history, the Mule, the "seeds" in different points of the world...

Do any of you see similarity with events in our past and present?
 Quoting: emerald_glow


he took references from existing world.AMISH WERE CALLED AMISH AND IN THOSE DAYS RUSSIANS AND AMERICANS WERE WORKING ON MIND CONTROL TECHNOLOGIES WHICH WERE REFLECTED IN HIS NOVELS
EMPerror

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Lithuania
05/06/2012 08:37 AM

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Re: Isaac Asimov: Foundation and the pre-planned history? Do any of you see similarity with events?
There is clear similarities with present day world. Motives are taken from real world events. Empires did collapse numerous times. History of such events is extremely obscure, but similar principles remain in all of these. It is possible to find lots of examples.
Psychohistory is hardly all about predetermination of events. It is more like a tool in shaping history.
glpman123

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05/06/2012 08:42 AM
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Re: Isaac Asimov: Foundation and the pre-planned history? Do any of you see similarity with events?
There is clear similarities with present day world. Motives are taken from real world events. Empires did collapse numerous times. History of such events is extremely obscure, but similar principles remain in all of these. It is possible to find lots of examples.
Psychohistory is hardly all about predetermination of events. It is more like a tool in shaping history.
 Quoting: EMPerror


civiliztions fall they rise...life goes on...it's just energy
the anticommunist and anti nazi
EMPerror

User ID: 8804293
Lithuania
05/06/2012 06:14 PM

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Re: Isaac Asimov: Foundation and the pre-planned history? Do any of you see similarity with events?
There is clear similarities with present day world. Motives are taken from real world events. Empires did collapse numerous times. History of such events is extremely obscure, but similar principles remain in all of these. It is possible to find lots of examples.
Psychohistory is hardly all about predetermination of events. It is more like a tool in shaping history.
 Quoting: EMPerror


civiliztions fall they rise...life goes on...it's just energy
 Quoting: glpman123


It's more about effectiveness of that energy. Culture evolves through more effective means, growth, stretching of all resources, overgrowth, collapse or fall by conquest or splitting.
And yet there are some really interesting, unexpected things to find there. Have been reading an ancient dispute between Scythians and Egyptians which nation is more ancient, both using prehistoric creation myths, but there is no dispute about them, just which nation could have had a better chance to survive in these times. Mind boggling considering our times and what is written there.
Common dreams
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Poland
05/07/2012 01:07 AM
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Re: Isaac Asimov: Foundation and the pre-planned history? Do any of you see similarity with events?
Thinking about name Trantor I caused a matrix turbulence.

Got quite scared.

Actually I read the original Foundation also but totally forgotten.

I might have a peak into his scientific book I have
Halcyon Dayz, FCD
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Netherlands
05/07/2012 08:08 AM

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Re: Isaac Asimov: Foundation and the pre-planned history? Do any of you see similarity with events?
Foundation was inspired by the fall of Rome, the Middle Ages that followed, and how it was the monasteries that managed to conserve at least some of the knowledge of antiquity.

Psychohistory is fictional, we're not close to anything like that.
We can't even predict next years grain prices.

It was written in the optimistic 50s, when the potential of collapse of Western civilisation by other causes then global warfare wasn't realised.

So, no.
Asimov wasn't trying to predict anything
book
Hatred is a cancer upon the world.
It rots the mind and blackens the heart.


Hi! My name is Halcyon Dayz and I'm addicted to morans.
picardtng

User ID: 15674429
Italy
05/07/2012 10:42 AM
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Re: Isaac Asimov: Foundation and the pre-planned history? Do any of you see similarity with events?
Foundation was inspired by the fall of Rome, the Middle Ages that followed, and how it was the monasteries that managed to conserve at least some of the knowledge of antiquity.

Psychohistory is fictional, we're not close to anything like that.
We can't even predict next years grain prices.

It was written in the optimistic 50s, when the potential of collapse of Western civilisation by other causes then global warfare wasn't realised.

So, no.
Asimov wasn't trying to predict anything
book
 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz, FCD


You said all the usual things about Asimov's trilogy.

I do not think anyone here was trying to imply that psycohistory was or could be a reality.
No one was trying to say Asimov was trying to "predict".
The thing I was trying to say is: is it possible that a group of people (illuminati) can steer and guide human history over over periods of many centuries? Is it possible that Asimov KNEW about such a thing?!

I know it's pretty hard to understand if you don't read what we are talking about.
Halcyon Dayz, FCD
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User ID: 11757475
Netherlands
05/07/2012 12:11 PM

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Re: Isaac Asimov: Foundation and the pre-planned history? Do any of you see similarity with events?
The thing I was trying to say is: is it possible that a group of people (illuminati) can steer and guide human history over over periods of many centuries?
 Quoting: picardtng

They are not doing a good job.
Being able to do so would require you to be able to predict future scientific breakthroughs.
Not possible.

Is it possible that Asimov KNEW about such a thing?!
 Quoting: picardtng

He would just have written an essay.
Asimov was never obtuse.
book
Hatred is a cancer upon the world.
It rots the mind and blackens the heart.


Hi! My name is Halcyon Dayz and I'm addicted to morans.
Common dreams
User ID: 15671815
Poland
05/07/2012 12:13 PM
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Re: Isaac Asimov: Foundation and the pre-planned history? Do any of you see similarity with events?
Did you read Isaac Asimov's Foundation?. You know the pre-planned history, the Mule, the "seeds" in different points of the world...

Do any of you see similarity with events in our past and present?
 Quoting: emerald_glow


he took references from existing world.AMISH WERE CALLED AMISH AND IN THOSE DAYS RUSSIANS AND AMERICANS WERE WORKING ON MIND CONTROL TECHNOLOGIES WHICH WERE REFLECTED IN HIS NOVELS
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15612608


H- amish, Hamish ?
www.adherents.com/lit/sf_amish.html [link to www.adherents.com]

MIND CONTROL
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15612608
EMPerror

User ID: 8804293
Lithuania
05/07/2012 12:44 PM

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Re: Isaac Asimov: Foundation and the pre-planned history? Do any of you see similarity with events?
Foundation was inspired by the fall of Rome, the Middle Ages that followed, and how it was the monasteries that managed to conserve at least some of the knowledge of antiquity.

Psychohistory is fictional, we're not close to anything like that.
We can't even predict next years grain prices.

It was written in the optimistic 50s, when the potential of collapse of Western civilisation by other causes then global warfare wasn't realised.

So, no.
Asimov wasn't trying to predict anything
book
 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz, FCD


It was inspired by the fall of the Rome and fall of other empires.
Monasteries conserving ancient knowledge? How much knowledge do you have about your country before Christianity 100BC, 1AD, 100AD, 200AD? I'm not talking about Rome and Greece. If you'll get the answer to that, get it for the neighboring countries. It is pretty much the same, history starts form Christianity or with it, isn't it (or I'm wrong here)?
You may easily find second foundation while the first would be Byzantine empire. And classical history goes beyond 1AD in these places primarily.
Problem is not all have knowledge to go beyond that and apply to modern times in a really neat pattern. What happened to Byzantine empire? What happened to Europe following crusades and reformation (with causes of these events)?

You are right, Asimov wasn't trying to predict something, but tried to show tendencies that are repeating from time to time.
Common dreams
User ID: 15671815
Poland
05/07/2012 01:46 PM
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Re: Isaac Asimov: Foundation and the pre-planned history? Do any of you see similarity with events?
Foundation was inspired by the fall of Rome, the Middle Ages that followed, and how it was the monasteries that managed to conserve at least some of the knowledge of antiquity.

Psychohistory is fictional, we're not close to anything like that.
We can't even predict next years grain prices.

It was written in the optimistic 50s, when the potential of collapse of Western civilisation by other causes then global warfare wasn't realised.

So, no.
Asimov wasn't trying to predict anything
book
 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz, FCD


You said all the usual things about Asimov's trilogy.

I do not think anyone here was trying to imply that psycohistory was or could be a reality.

 Quoting: picardtng


{{For|[[Isaac Asimov]]'s use of the term in science fiction|psychohistory (fictional)}}
{{Campaignbox Theories of History}}
'''Psychohistory''' is the study of the psychological motivations of historical events.<ref> [link to www3.interscience.wiley.com] It attempts to combine the insights of [[psychotherapy]] with the research methodology of the [[social sciences]] to understand the emotional origin of the social and [[political]] behavior of groups and nations, past and present. Its subject matter is childhood and the [[family]] (especially [[child abuse]]), and psychological studies of [[anthropology]] and [[ethnology]].

==Description==
[[Image:Rembrandt Harmensz. van Rijn 035.jpg|thumb|right|Rembrandt's painting of the sacrifice of Isaac, from the Old Testament.]]

No one was trying to say Asimov was trying to "predict".
The thing I was trying to say is: is it possible that a group of people (illuminati) can steer and guide human history over over periods of many centuries? Is it possible that Asimov KNEW about such a thing?!

I know it's pretty hard to understand if you don't read what we are talking about.
 Quoting: picardtng


On May 3rd, 2012 in a Polish radio program (can be downloaded I think!) the interviewed history professor felt compelled to mention psychohistory. I thought HUH??

That's just some broken record from Gaia's intestines.
Halcyon Dayz, FCD
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User ID: 11757475
Netherlands
05/07/2012 02:21 PM

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Re: Isaac Asimov: Foundation and the pre-planned history? Do any of you see similarity with events?
The discipline that calls itself 'psychohistory' has little to do with Asimov's fictional science.
It's also nonsense. [link to rationalwiki.org]
book
Hatred is a cancer upon the world.
It rots the mind and blackens the heart.


Hi! My name is Halcyon Dayz and I'm addicted to morans.
picardtng

User ID: 15674429
Italy
05/07/2012 03:01 PM
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Re: Isaac Asimov: Foundation and the pre-planned history? Do any of you see similarity with events?
Like i said: none of you seem to get the point. If Asimov knew about an "illuminati" scheme to steer and guide human history towards the creation of an "empire" of some kind and if he wanted to tell his readers what he knew,without risking his own life,then "the Foundation trilogy" would the best way to explain what he knew.
Now I really do not expect that all can and could understand what I'm saying,but it does not seem complicated to me. I am not saying that "all" the things in the nove are true, just the scheme,the giuding force.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 10584669
Bulgaria
05/07/2012 03:16 PM
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Re: Isaac Asimov: Foundation and the pre-planned history? Do any of you see similarity with events?
When i read Foundation i was so impressed, and i had feel that he really write about us...
Anonymous Coward
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Bulgaria
05/07/2012 03:19 PM
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Re: Isaac Asimov: Foundation and the pre-planned history? Do any of you see similarity with events?
This was in time when i did not know about illuminati and secret conspirations, but i had feel of real truth.
EMPerror

User ID: 8804293
Lithuania
05/07/2012 05:18 PM

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Re: Isaac Asimov: Foundation and the pre-planned history? Do any of you see similarity with events?
It has to do a lot with controlled historical events. There is no fiction in it. Rise of third Rome is early more documented precedent for it. Later there are much more...
To know this you'd have to know history with all details including dirty politics. You won't find this in history books. Well, you won't even find normal detailed history of it.
chuckle
Asimov most likely knew it extremely well and applied it in more readable form, without much details and just with abstract hints.
You can easily apply it to USA, EU, Israel, former USSR, etc. Just sort it out correctly.
emerald_glow (OP)

User ID: 924761
United States
05/07/2012 06:23 PM

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Re: Isaac Asimov: Foundation and the pre-planned history? Do any of you see similarity with events?
bump popcorn
Emerald_Glow
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02/04/2013 03:22 PM
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Re: Isaac Asimov: Foundation and the pre-planned history? Do any of you see similarity with events?
I read the foundation troligy when I was just a boy. Until yesterday,while I was working,I had not thought about the similarities with current events. Then I got home and read that someone else had my very same thought. Coincidence? Anyway I really think Asimov wanted to tell some of his readers what he knew. That makes us the few who were told many years ago what these years are showing us.bumpbump
 Quoting: picardtng


Hi, Italian:-) Synchronicities are chasing me these days like never before.
 Quoting: emerald_glow


It's pretty wierd that Asimov was talking about a group of people working with the intent of steering and guiding humans towards a new glorious empire and,today we find ourselves overwhelmed by all the proofs we can see,in plain site,of a similar group trying to create a "world goverment". In Asimov's books a part of the very same foundation was destroyed to make sure history would go as predicted. This is one thing that we might verify,should a part of the elite get wiped out in the next future.
I think Asimov,just like Arthur C. Clark,was one of the elite-illuminati,call them whatever you want. The thing is Asimov and others were clearly trying to tell the ones who could understand what was to unfold in the years to come. Why some thought the same thing in the same day....well...?!
 Quoting: picardtng


No doubt, Asimov was one of the elite-illuminati:

A LETTER TO THE NEXT GENERATION
ISAAC ASIMOV

" Waiting for a crisis to force us to act globally runs the risk of making us wait too long. "
Some of us in 1989 felt the need for something positive and vital to do that would draw all the nations together to accomplish something that would offer magnificent returns. Was there an indication somewhere in history that this would work - that a positive solution was possible?
[link to www.angelfire.com]

Asimov on world government, carrots and sticks, January 14, 1989
[link to www.youtube.com]

Isaac Asimov on the Greenhouse Effect, January 14, 1989
[link to www.youtube.com]

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