Q: Do you guys suppose the Pharisees *recognized* how far off base they were from God's heart?

I bet they knew all too well, they just couldn't give up the power they got from the people they tapped it from. The same old game of power that became more of a tradition before the new testament until now.

Don't it somewhere says that the ruler of this world is already judged? It might be better to focus attention on people that float in the vacuum between polarities, skipping on whichever leg gives the least resistance.

(Matthew 4:4) But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

May be. I'm pretty sure my gig is evangelizing christians, however. They're harder to get through to.

Do you honestly think this comes even close to addressing the topic I posed?

(Deuteronomy 4:2) Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Here's another general question, along these same lines:
If we're commanded to "study to show ourselves [sound]", why do we take everything we read in scripture literally, at face value? What kind of "study" is that?

Well study's not just a matter of knowing but understanding. If you can only parrot a truth, you don't truly understand it, but if you can explain it in many ways to many people, then you understand it. By studying, you learn how to take a simple truth and apply it in many ways thereby increasing your level of understanding.

As for the pharisees, they only knew the truth in one way, had no understanding (or maturity) and then used it as a club to rob and batter others. Jesus, however, told the truth in many ways, and used it as a means to free and better others. It's a difference of ways between God and the devil. God loves people, but the devil enslaves. Jesus came to free people, but the pharisees did not.

Sounds good :)

Give us Barabbas

(2 Timothy 4:3) For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap themselves teachers, having itching ears


(Proverbs 30:5-6) Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.


(John 14:6) Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Lemme get this straight. . .you're defending the Pharisees?

Really?

(1 John 2:4) He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.


(John 8:24) I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

I understand if you're not really into the whole "communicating with people" thing, but seriously - you don't think the Pharisees were good guys, do you? They were proud, judgmental religionists, without compassion for their fellow man, and Jesus called them heard-hearted snakes.

I understand if you're not really into the whole "communicating with people" thing, but seriously - you don't think the Pharisees were good guys, do you? They were proud, judgmental religionists, without compassion for their fellow man, and Jesus called them heard-hearted snakes.

and which one of us has not been so?

No, to this day they think that they are the elite. They killed Jesus, because they do not belong to his flock. Jesus said that they do not.

They are the "fake" jewish people mentioned in Revelation and Revelations likens them to the "synagogue of satan"

que¿

Most of us have, yes. But some come to [outgrow/abandon] that state - that's kind of the point of this discussion: We don't have to remain ignorant judgmental bastard-holes. Objective self-evaluation is a pretty good beginning.

Your angle is that God's Holy Word should not be preached in truth, but rather your own fantasies about love and the Christ you've created in your own mind are all that matter.

You understand Jesus's message to be that he does not literally mean what he says, but rather that the Bible is to be taken with a grain of salt, especially the parts of God's Word that you find to be judgmental; finding our own way in love is all that Jesus really wants, yes?

Time to reacquaint yourself with the true gospel.


(Matthew 4:4) But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

(Matthew 15)

8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.


This is the sin of the Pharisees.

why did pharisees like Saul of Tarsus go around killing Christians?

1 And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.

3 As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed them to prison.

(Acts 8:1,3)

Similar verse Here
"And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition." Mark 7:9

and Here apply s to today's Pharisees in the Christian World

"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children." Hosea 4:6

The Forth Commandment is The One that Said "Remember"
which They all Forgot and adopted another day for a Tradition of mankind instead

Or you could ignore Jesus teaching like almost every christian does..and say this prayer..Its what makes them what they are..
PHARISEES.

Dear God in heaven, I come to you in the name of Jesus. I acknowledge that you have perfected torture and blackmail, and that if I dont grovel,tremble,and fill myself with pride and fear, that you will burn me alive forever in hell. and I am not REALLY sorry for my sins and the life that I have lived; but if I dont say that you will burn me alive forever.

I believe that your only begotten Son Jesus Christ shed His precious blood on the cross at Calvary and had himself tortured to death so you would not have to torture me forever in your great enduring mercy, and I am now willing to turn from my sin....but ONLY because you will torture me if I dont at least pretend to, even though everyone will see how evil I still am by the pride and arrogance and hate that will henceforth spew from my mouth, because I will now think I am above everyone else.

You said in Your Holy Word, Romans 10:9 that if we confess the Lord our God and believe in our hearts that God raised Jesus from the dead, we shall be saved and avoid the eternal torture that you fashioned before the world began in your great love and mercy.

Right now I confess pride..opps..I mean Jesus as the Lord of my soul. With my heart, I believe that God raised Jesus from the dead. This very moment I accept Jesus Christ as my own personal Savior and according to His Word, right now I am saved...and can now freely sin...condemn others,,and look down on them in sheer contempt.

Thank you Jesus for your rather limited grace, which has saved me from my sins. I thank you Jesus that your grace always leads to license, pride..arrogance..hate..and sarcstic comments to all those you allow me now to condemn freely. Therefore Lord Jesus transform my life so that I may sling mud and shit and shame to you alone and especially myself.

Thank you Jesus for dying for me and giving me eternal life.

Amen.

Hmmm there are heathens that act more christian than a lot of people that call themselves christians. It hasn't been that long ago that christian slaveowners were possible without too much ridicule.

The first will be last and the last will be first, seems to be quite fitting. Personally, I rather watch how someone is acting instead of going on what they call themselves, some people just use it as status, it's a 'clothes make the man' kind of world.

the pharisees believed the poor the lame and the blind were so because they had sinned and were cursed by God.

Jesus came to heal the sick, raise the dead, proclaim liberty to the captives. to seek and save those who were lost.

because the pharisees thought they could see, Jesus said they were blind.

Jesus is the Light we are to abide in Him ;) mercy triumphs over judgment. give a cup of water to the thirsty in His Name.

oh and we are known by our love for the brethren, after we are sifted like wheat, we are to strengthen the brethren. feed His sheep. feed His lambs. feed His sheep.

love covers a multitude of sins ;)

love rb

Did they have anything to do with the arrest of Jesus?

Hello,

I appreciate this thread..

And them Pharisees... i feel they are still around, and people flock to them still, and no I don't feel that they know the 'Father':

"Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation [fanatic adherence of the codes and the laws], nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within you."
- Luke 17:20-21

"Jesus said: The Pharisees and the scribes have taken the keys of knowledge (and) have hidden them. They did not go in, and those who wished to go in they did not allow. But you, be wise as serpents and innocent as doves"

- Gospel of Thomas

Don't we ALL ?

Do we know what the TRUTH is ?

Through 2000 Years of lies and corruption of both the Bible and other scriptures.

NOBODY knows the whole truth except God, We are left in the dark and should believe without receiving a sign. DO YOU ?

I am a Christian but sometimes have NO idea what to believe.

Aliens, TPTB, Secret Societies, The Roman Catholic Church and so many more.

All trying to tell us what to believe and how to live. Who know what is the TRUTH ? Not you not I not Anybody.

I do believe though we should live our lives measured by good relations with our neighbours and honesty to the best of our abilities the rest is all HEARSAY.

Hello,

I feel what you said... and get the sense that the 'authority' regarding these matters can be really wrong, and that it takes courage to question such things.

However, i feel it takes more faith to feel that one already has an innate connection to come to know "God", and is at odds with what we are told.

----

"..Be on your guard so that no one deceives you by saying, 'Look over here!' or 'Look over there!' For the child of true Humanity exists within you. Follow it! Those who search for it will find it."

- Gospel of Mary of Magdala


"When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will know that you are the sons of the living Father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you are in poverty, and you are poverty."

- Gospel of Thomas


"If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save you. If you do not bring forth what is within you, what you do not bring forth will destroy you."

- Gospel of Thomas