Q: Do you guys suppose the Pharisees *recognized* how far off base they were from God's heart?

Thank You,

These are powerfull words. I do sometimes wish though that God would talk to me directly and guide me like He did with Moses and most of all the Old Kings and Prophets.

Then again I think that we would get irritated by His chatter if He did. Thus nullifying Free Will, He would constantly correct us on everything and don't we all HATE to be told what to do ?

I do believe though it would be wonderfull to be able to walk with God and talk like Adam and Eve did.

Well then I suppose to have FAITH is the most important thing to do.

No problem!

If you won't give up, i won't either...

As to your concerns, I truly feel that the "Father" will not breath for us, nor walk it for us.. In light of all the conditioning, and those that would benefit from keeping us from the path.. it would only serve to temper us better, or that is the hope after all, you know getting through the eye of the needle, and returning as a prodigal son and such.

Well, no. Can you quote where I've suggested or implied such a thing?




Absolutely the bible has to be taken with a grain of salt. Our bibles our written in English, a language that did not even exist in Jesus' day. He never spoke English - scholars have put all those English words in God's mouth. The alarming thing about this is that there are significant mistranslation issues that have tainted God's word. A simple example is where the KJV has Him talking about the "end of the world", when the original Greek word there is aion meaning "age". Rightly, the verse should say "end of the age", but it doesn't. Hired religionists have depicted Jesus talking about a concept God never even had in mind. Yet we have multitudes of sheep out there bleating about "the end of the world" based on this error. This is serious stuff to get right, don't you think?

If we're not at least referencing the original Hebrew & Greek as we study, we're basing everything we learn on leavened text, which has warped God's message. It's kind of important to get to the truth even if it's different than what 99% of churchdom believes due to mass ignorance.

(John 8:37) I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.


(Proverbs 30:5-6) Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

Counterfeit Christians cling to verses here and there which taken out of context become a license to disregard the rest of the Bible and just do what thou wilt.

(Ephesians 4:14-15) That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:


(John 14:6) Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Sp pray this prayer and you too can be a christian.

READ it carefully first..its a very important decision...

Dear God in heaven, I come to you in the name of Jesus. I acknowledge that you have perfected torture and blackmail, and that if I dont grovel,tremble,and fill myself with pride and fear, that you will burn me alive forever in hell. and I am not REALLY sorry for my sins and the life that I have lived; but if I dont say that you will burn me alive forever.

I believe that your only begotten Son Jesus Christ shed His precious blood on the cross at Calvary and had himself tortured to death so you would not have to torture me forever in your great enduring mercy, and I am now willing to turn from my sin....but ONLY because you will torture me if I dont at least pretend to, even though everyone will see how evil I still am by the pride and arrogance and hate that will henceforth spew from my mouth, because I will now think I am above everyone else.

You said in Your Holy Word, Romans 10:9 that if we confess the Lord our God and believe in our hearts that God raised Jesus from the dead, we shall be saved and avoid the eternal torture that you fashioned before the world began in your great love and mercy.

Right now I confess pride..opps..I mean Jesus as the Lord of my soul. With my heart, I believe that God raised Jesus from the dead. This very moment I accept Jesus Christ as my own personal Savior and according to His Word, right now I am saved...and can now freely sin...condemn others,,and look down on them in sheer contempt.

Thank you Jesus for your rather limited grace, which has saved me from my sins. I thank you Jesus that your grace always leads to license, pride..arrogance..hate..and sarcstic comments to all those you allow me now to condemn freely. Therefore Lord Jesus transform my life so that I may sling mud and shit and shame to you alone and especially myself.

Thank you Jesus for dying for me and giving me eternal life.

Amen.

Aussie knows the score

Can any give me an opinion on this post please ...!

[link to www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk]

Regards
Jules

I got nothing, sorry

"Maybe we'd do well to stop and assess ourselves so as to avoid such hard-hearted religious error, yes?"

What else could you mean by this except that Christians should pull back from preaching a true gospel because that's "hard-hearted" and contrary to the will of Jesus.



You're suggesting almighty Yaweh God is incapable of preserving his unadulterated Word to be accessible by the multitudes. God did just that by the King James Bible, meticulously transcribed through scholars by the Holy Ghost and virtually identical to the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Everything man needs is in there. The more anyone seeks God, the more he will share his heart and give man understanding, which would include studying the original Greek translation.

I could mean that we should look at our hearts and our words and our deeds and consider whether we're even remotely christlike. If we're more like the Pharisees than like Jesus, there's likely a serious problem somewhere in our walk, wouldn't you agree? (And you don't have to agree, but it is common sense.)




I'm not saying He's incapable. Jeremiah 8:8 says the lying pen of the scribes has tainted the Law. . .is that because God was incapable of keeping them from skewing it? Of course not. But if occurred anyhow. Revelation 22 lists serious consequences for those would alter its contents. Why would God bother giving such a warning if He were simply going to prevent it from being altered? Why do you suppose Jesus advised us to "beware the scribes"?
The King James Bible is significantly hacked.

You could mean that, but you don't. And never does Jesus use the new age jargon "christlike."



So you are suggesting that God would allow it to become an arduous task for the multitudes to be able to access his truth.

No, I *do* mean that. I mean it exactly as stated. I learned this stance firsthand, and there's no going back. "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves", yes? Internal honesty is absolutely vital. When we learn to toss the idols out of our heart, hearing God gets a lot easier.

As for the term "christlike", Romans refers to is as "[being] conformed to the image of his Son". Does that work a little better for you?



If we christians had our ducks in a row and exhibited "christlikeness" (if we conveyed His nature and demeanor through our word and deeds) God's truth would pretty much be on display everywhere, every day.

Is it all that "arduous" to cross reference verses, or use a concordance? Also, there are websites out there preaching the same kind of stuff I am, already sliced and ready for consumption. Plenty of books and so forth. Do you have any idea how many different types of commentaries have been written over the centuries?

Furthermore, if it's such a "narrow" path, why would you assume that multitudes are going to get it, anyhow? If the road to so-called "destruction" (square one) is so wide, wouldn't it kind of make sense that the multitudes would go that route, and stick with whatever their professional pastor feeds them to get through the week?

Satan's new age doctrine is precisely one of "christlikeness," defined as love, love, love, and more love. You can never talk about sin, you can never warn anybody against evil, you can never point to Christ as being the only way, because that would be contrary to love.

The gospel of peace is the Word of God: Old and New Testament. This can entail more than holding the hands of elderly women and singing Kumbaya. There is a war going on between Christ and satan. By refusing to preach a complete, true gospel (i.e. blocking out most of the Bible, and especially the 'uncomfortable' parts), man continues to crucify Christ, the Word made flesh.

(1 Corinthians 7:23-24) Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men. Brethren, let every man, wherein he is called, therein abide with God.

God is holy and has terrible wrath against sin, praise the Lord. So if God's Word, the sword of the Spirit, is not preached vigorously against the evils spewing out of the pits of hell, such as homosexuality, everyone is in danger of God's judgment. For the wages of sin is death.

There is no love, peace, or salvation from hell without Jesus Christ.

(John 8:24) I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Instead of trying to murder God's Word or water down the gospel, Christians should be encouraged to wield the sword of the Spirit to be waged without shame against the powers of darkness.



It's good to take in as much knowledge as possible as long as one is rooted in, and ultimately foremost in abidance with God's Word, for which the King James Bible is reliable.

There's no such thing as "without Jesus Christ". He legally purchased this field, and all belong to Him now. He's inescapable.

Hello,

I appreciate this.. i made edit to show the parts that really seemed 'interesting' within the replies.


What I find puzzling is that 'Jesus' was pretty despised by the Pharisees and the scribes (i think lawyers) when he was spreading the "Good News"...



[..and were probably seen as a rebel, or trouble-maker, by the money changers on temple grounds, to the vendors that sold 'live-stock' for sacrifice, and the followers, which were probably just about everyone in that region.]

Anyway, it feels that his message was really heard by those at the 'bottom rung', and even few among them... his viewpoints seemed strongly 'different' from the codes and the laws and even said the following:


"Jesus said, “The pharisees and the scribes have taken the keys of knowledge and hidden them. They themselves have not entered, nor have they allowed to enter those who wish to...”

- (Thomas 39).

(well, when i quote something why is it called "picking and choosing" when everybody does it the same way when they reply and makes one a ? )

I find it sad, and puzzling, that the Good News weren't received very well, even hostile (maybe an understatement) at the time... :(

...and that it seemed that his news was only heard by those that were the "lowest of the lows"...




also that just about everyone else seemed just as 'invested' into the authority at the time, which definitely didn't seem friendly towards his viewpoints...

So if any picking and choosing is done... i find it an honor to bring out his actual message... outside of the message was probably written by the very scribes that condemned (probably another understatement).


The word "condemned" is pretty harsh too... it would make alot of people not want to get associated to such a person i would imagine, and feel it occurring even today:


"
1. to express an unfavorable or adverse judgment on; indicate strong disapproval of; censure.

2. to pronounce to be guilty; sentence to punishment: to condemn a murderer to life imprisonment.

3. to give grounds or reason for convicting or censuring: His acts condemn him.

4. to judge or pronounce to be unfit for use or service: to condemn an old building.
"

- [link to dictionary.reference.com]

That ended a pretty sour, but by looking into what it seemed like the "golden nuggets" parts, his "good news" are what seemed the most uplifting, and thus important. heck the religion is even named after Christ [geeze slaps head]

I find it understandable because it would take alot of courage and courageous self honesty, and has been pretty hard for me to walk in his shoes, or my neighbors [which are even 'yous' in this thread], you know walk the walk... [sigh]

The good news part though is what gives me hope though, seemed important than alot of the other parts which didn't seem to be about the good news at all.

if that makes one a "counterfeit christian"....uuhhhhh, i don't know what to say really...

The second danger is the pervasive belief by hundreds of millions if not billions of people around the planet that there is to be an “End Times’”where there will be a ‘Second Coming’ involving the return of a spiritually advanced being such as Christ for Christians; Messiah for jewish people, Isa for Muslims; Kalki for the Hindus; Maitreya for Buddhists, etc. Such a being would presumably save humanity from an impending global catastrophe engineered by corrupt individuals/institutions, or a disastrous military conflict with hostile ET races, and usher in a golden age of peace and harmony.
The belief in a ‘Second Coming’ is so deeply embedded in the collective psyche of humanity that it could be well described as an archetype of the ‘collective unconscious’. It can be predicted that such an archetype would be exploited by ET races wishing to remove humanity’s sovereignty and independence in a much more covert way than overt ET intervention. This indeed would parallel the Spanish Conquest of the Americas where conquistadores such as Hernando Cortes exploited the religious belief system of the native Americans and persuaded them that the Spaniards were the ‘returning gods’ [John Lash in metahistory.org documents that the ancient Gnostics viewed specifically Judaism, Christianity, and Islam as the "Doctrine of the Aliens" (Manipulative/Regressive)].
A number of controversial book authors such as Al Bielak, Preston Nichols, Stewart Swerdlow, Peter Moon and others claim to have been part of a clandestine military project dubbed the ‘Montauk Project’ which used advanced technology such as genetic cloning, holographic projection and time-travel. Such technology was said to have been given to clandestine government organizations by various ET races. If such reports are accurate, then it would be possible and even likely that the pervasive belief in a ‘Second Coming’ could be exploited by ET groups that freely intervene in human affairs and who allegedly enter into agreements with clandestine government organizations.
Using time travel technology, such ET races could use DNA samples from the ‘historic Jesus’ or religious relics such as the Shroud of Turin, to clone a hybrid ET/human being that could be passed off as the returning Christ. Using holographic projection around key areas of the globe, such a figure could appear in the miraculous manner expected by religious adherents. As the result of DNA testing and a host of miracles manufactured either by ET holographic technology or by the ET/human hybrid himself, such a being and his supporters could persuade a sufficient number of believers from the different religious traditions that he was the returning Christ/Messiah/Isa/Kalki/Maitreya.

It could be expected that such a being could bring about peace in perennial conflicts such as Israel/Palestine, Kashmir, and elsewhere, by the force of his charismatic personality, miraculous deeds, and overt support by ET groups. If such a ‘Second Coming’ were to happen, this new ‘Christ’ would gain enormous global authority. The religious authority of such a hybrid being and the associated ET races supporting such a ‘returned Christ’ would pose a direct threat to the sovereignty and independence of global humanity.

Commit your way to the LORD; trust in him and he will do this: He will make your righteousness shine like the dawn, the justice of your cause like the noonday sun.
Psalm 37:5-6

sorry i felt left out with the people posting bible verses

Did you just write that all up? [if so i'm impressed, and you'd had alot to say]


It is my feeling that Christ would not want to be "worshipped", which though was a lifeforce for the Pharisees though...

What survived and are written about what he said is only a tiny part of the overall Bibles we even see today.

His message seemed pretty short, compared to the Pharisees, the Sadducees, and the scribes, before and after Christ spreading the good news. I think his message was pretty short too, especially in regard to historically written accounts of what he said [and some omitted entirely from the Bible [i wonder if that was a board decision or something like that].

I think alot of his parables are pretty amazing, and don't get the impression it was at all about worshipping, or waiting for savior even... can't really say the same to how the message told for a long while now though.

Interesting stuff, guys

(Matthew 15:8-9) This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.


(John 3:7) Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

(John 8:37) I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.

(Ephesians 2:8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:


(Romans 10:17) So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Uhhh.... yeah. Exactly, don't you see, or feel, the irony? Even from those days to today?

(Matthew 7:15) Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

most christains are still far away from God's heart. God's heart is their heart and they don't see it. There is hierachy yes, but this thing they think is God is not God. Jesus taught it correctly and it s not seen still. the pharisees were thugs confined to this planet and they still don't want anything to do with HEART

Of course we must be born again, absolutely - but are you suggesting that Jesus is not present nevertheless?

And your Matthew verse might just sum up my whole intent of this thread. If we'd toss out the "acting a certain way" bullshit and get real with God, we might eventually outgrow being a truckload of holier-than-thou hypocrites that people despise.