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Truths and myths about Greece and the Greek crisis-Wikileaks: Greece becoming part of the dollar bloc is the bigger game played behind the scene

 
insertfunnyusername
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05/17/2012 02:29 PM

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Truths and myths about Greece and the Greek crisis-Wikileaks: Greece becoming part of the dollar bloc is the bigger game played behind the scene
Hello lads and gals.
With great personal sadness i have watched the past weeks in many threads regarding the Greek crisis, many fellow GLPers bashing the Greek people with claims that are false and are spread by the MSM for a good 3 years now. This is not the case with everyone. Some of you here can see this crisis for what it really is and i am very appreciative for the moral support and compassion you are showing to the Greek people. I would like it very much if we could have a sensible and rational discussion about these claims, without the typical lazy gypsies you deserve to starve stereotypes.

Now i don't want to convince you all with this thread to start preaching that all Greeks are saints in this situation, coz we are clearly not. We messed up big time. We know for a fact that the politicians and the elite are corrupt here and probably everywhere else. An interesting fact is that the Greek politicians passed a law a few years back which states that they cannot personally held legally accountable for any of their actions because they do what they do for the public good. Now that is a gem of a law i say. The biggest mistake of the ordinary people in Greece is that they voted again and again for 38 years the same corrupt politicians and waited until TSHTF to change this. Probably its too late now because the damage is already done, but as they say better late than freaking ever.

I would like to chat with you now about the basis of these claims that are wide spread and debunk them once and for all.


Claim no.1 : Greeks are lazy

That is a myth. In fact most of the Greeks work more than anyone else in the EU and have been working that hard before Greece got into the eurozone.
[link to stats.oecd.org]
Even the amount of paid holidays is 23 compared to the EU average, and significantly lower than the minimum of 28 days in the UK and 30 days in Germany.

Claim no.2: Greeks retire at 50

Myth. The only ones who retire at such age are the cops, the people working in the army and the security forces in general. In some cases people working in heavy industry and unhealthy environments, can also retire before the average retirement age.
Here you can download the excel from OECD with statistics on average retirement age per country: [link to www.oecd.org]
If you are bored to do that, here is link to a chart which shows that only in Ireland and Portugal the average retirement age is bigger than Greece within the eurozone. [link to paul.kedrosky.com]

Claim no.3: Greeks don't pay taxes and state is overspending in the public sector

Myth with a fair amount of truth. The real problem is not the tax collection from the low and middle class, but the lack of tax collection from the rich. From 2001 to 2007, Greece collected only an average of 39.4% of GDP in taxes, compared to the EU 44.4% average. As i 've stated many times before, the elite in Greece is corrupt to the bone. The rich and the corporations are the ones that are not paying their fair share in taxes and this has an impact on the whole Greek economy. Here is an article with useful info about this claim. [link to www.americanprogress.org]
The real plan here is to discredit completely the Greek public sector and then buy it for pennies. An excellent example of this tactic is the plan of privatization of the public electricity provider (DEI) which is a profitable public company. A new power plant was introduced 2 years ago which costed around 1,5 BN euro. DEI have 15 such power plants and they now want to sell them all for a total amount of 400 million euros. It is absurd and it is not the only privatization in plan. They want the lottery, the water, the railroad, the education system etc. You get the picture. They try to steal the labor of decades of the Greek taxpayer. It is a vulture party. A sellout.
I ve' posted some days ago in a relative thread, a post about where in my humble opinion these money were spent and how these deals were done. You can find it here (last post in the page) Thread: Greece's Stock Market Carshes 4.5% In A Matter Of Seconds Following Collapse Of Government Talks. Run on Banks Underway! (Page 4)

Claim no.4: Bailout money helping the Greek people

Myth. The bailout money is not a handout. It is a loan with interest and a forced one that is. It's money going straight to the banks,to avoid the whole eurozone financial sector from collapsing. Many of you would think that this is not possible to occur with such a small economy and country, but the EU financial institutions are so intermingled and connected to each other that is a fact that when the first domino falls the crash for the whole banking system will be inevitable. Many European banks facing problems in Greece, have also great exposure in other countries that are under pressure now from the speculators. The Greek people don't see a cent from these money and is not affecting our society and daily life in any positive way. Even the Austrian finance minister Maria Fekter admitted last summer that so far the Austrian state made profits of 19 million euros in interest from the Greek bailout. An interesting twist and obligation in the last Memorandum signed in March, was that the Greek state cannot borrow money from any other source or country in the world, amid reports that Russia was ready to help out with the debt and offer a loan with minimum interest. Greece can only borrow the forced bailout money from the EU and if that is not unconstitutional i don't know what it is.

Claim no.5: There would be no money for pensions and salaries if...

Myth. This particular claim (or should i say blackmail?) is reported daily in the Greek media and by Greek politicians for over a year now, just to terrorize the people that if they do not come to their senses and accept austerity and don't vote the pro-bailout forces, they state will have no money for their salaries. Here is an interesting chart in Greek that i 'll help you out to read the important parts. It is the state budget of 2011 with the estimated budget of 2012.
[link to www.tsantiri.gr]
So the state income for 2011 was approx. 85 BN. Approx. 19.5 BN of them goes for salaries in the public sector and 31.5 BN goes for pensions. In the bottom of this chart you can see that a further 15.8 BN goes to pay loan interest despite the wide-spread MSM lies that want us to believe otherwise.
So no bailout money are used for salaries and pensions, just a scare tactic so the people vote for the "right" cause.

Claim no.6: Greece can kicked out of the euro and the EU

For now a myth. There is no legal documents or EU legislation in the Treaty of Lisbon or anywhere else that an equal member country can just get kicked out. The only way for this to happen is to change the EU legislation or Greece to just take her toys and go. For both of these scenarios to occur though, there is going to be a meeting of all the Eu members, a voting and maybe a veto from some countries that face the same economic pressure. Even the president of Eurogroup Jean-Claude Juncker admitted a few days earlier, that this scenario cannot just happen. Do not fool yourselves by the claim, if they could do that they would have done it 2 years ago to minimize their losses and the infection to other eu members. This is probably the most widespread myth and for now it is just that. A myth.

Claim no.7: 80% of the Greeks still want the euro

Myth. I don't doubt that many Greeks still want the euro. The rich people that got more rich with it that is. Still many Greeks have also an emotional attachment with the euro, and this attachment stems from the vision of being part of the European dream. But this dream has turned to a nightmare for big parts of the population, who now is starting to realize that things were not that bad with drachma afterall. The fact is that the salaries basically remained the same but all the goods doubled and tripled in price overnight. Here is a chart that i will help go through it coz it's in Greek, that shows 1999 prices with drachma compared to 2012 prices with euro.
The 4 goods that this chart is showing us is:
1) basic minimum wage
2) one lt. of gas
3) one lt. of heating oil
4) one cheese-pie
[link to awakening.gr]
So more and more Greeks are realizing that their living standards are in free fall and i can reassure that this 80% number is a myth. Don't forget that is coming from polls from Greek MSM that the last day before the elections predicted that New Democracy will get 30% of the votes and Syriza will get only 8% and we all saw how these predictions panned out for them.

The whole point of starting this thread is that Greece now more than ever needs the support of the public opinion and the support of the average people around the world. Greece was chosen by TPTB to fight a battle that now is becoming a reality for many so called well developed countries. We are already toasted. Done. Done in reputation and pride and who knows what this month till the elections will bring to the table. We must all see beyond the curtain of lies, misleads and distractions. Don't show any complacency. They will not stop at Greece. This shite is spreading and it's spreading fast. The Greek elections messed their plans up. Do not let us fight this battle alone, when you know that you are next in line. You all after all have something Greek in your everyday life, from astronomy to trigonometry and thousands of words in your daily vocabulary. The banksters showed many times in recent history, particularly in Latin America and Africa their ruthlessness and how much they value human life. Lets all unite and teach em a lesson once and for all.

I thank everyone personally who bothered to read this post.
I will now close this gigantic post with an extract from chapter xv of Nietzsche’s first book that i recently read, The Birth of Tragedy, which was published in 1872, referring to the Greeks.

Almost every era and cultural stage has at some point sought in an profoundly ill-tempered frame of mind to free itself of the Greeks, because in comparison with the Greeks, all their own achievements, apparently fully original and admired in all sincerity, suddenly appeared to lose their colour and life and shrivelled to unsuccessful copies, in fact, to caricatures. And so a heartfelt inner anger always keeps breaking out again against that arrogant little nation which dared to designate for all time everything that was not produced in its own country as “barbaric.” Who were those Greeks, people asked themselves, who, although they had achieved only an ephemeral historical glitter, only ridiculously restricted institutions, only an ambiguous competence in morality, who could even be identified with hateful vices, yet who had nevertheless laid a claim to a dignity and a pre-eminent place among peoples, appropriate to a genius among the masses? Unfortunately people were not lucky enough to find the cup of hemlock which could easily do away with such a being, for all the poisons which envy, slander, and inner rage created were insufficient to destroy that self-satisfied magnificence. Hence, confronted by the Greeks, people have been ashamed and afraid, unless an individual values the truth above everything else and dares to propose this truth: the notion that the Greeks, as the charioteers of our culture and every other one, hold the reins, but that almost always the wagon and horses are inferior material and do not match the glory of their drivers, who then consider it amusing to whip such a team into the abyss, over which they themselves jump with the leap of Achilles.





PS Next post was meant to be a thread but for some mysterious reason got deleted. Wikileaks : Greece becoming part of the dollar bloc is the bigger game played out behind the scenes: Thread: Truths and myths about Greece and the Greek crisis-Wikileaks: Greece becoming part of the dollar bloc is the bigger game played behind the scene (Page 2)

Last Edited by insertfunnyusername on 08/07/2012 09:37 PM
Anonymous Coward
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05/17/2012 02:49 PM
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Re: Truths and myths about Greece and the Greek crisis-Wikileaks: Greece becoming part of the dollar bloc is the bigger game played behind the scene
Great post OP. Thanks for taking the time to dispel the rumors and I wish you the best of luck.
Anonymous Coward
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05/17/2012 02:58 PM
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Re: Truths and myths about Greece and the Greek crisis-Wikileaks: Greece becoming part of the dollar bloc is the bigger game played behind the scene
5 stars

bump
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 16220576
Germany
05/17/2012 03:05 PM
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Re: Truths and myths about Greece and the Greek crisis-Wikileaks: Greece becoming part of the dollar bloc is the bigger game played behind the scene
And when do we get our money back we lent you?
insertfunnyusername (OP)

User ID: 16046432
Greece
05/17/2012 03:21 PM

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Re: Truths and myths about Greece and the Greek crisis-Wikileaks: Greece becoming part of the dollar bloc is the bigger game played behind the scene
And when do we get our money back we lent you?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16220576


LOL!
I honestly don't know.
The thing is that you shouldn't lent us any money in the first place. Even Merkel's advisors in the start of this mess, told her that it would be better for all concerned incl. Greece to just declare bankruptcy. The debt can't be re-payed in my opinion so i can't see anyone except the markets benefiting from this ongoing fucked up situation.
insertfunnyusername (OP)

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Greece
05/17/2012 03:22 PM

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Re: Truths and myths about Greece and the Greek crisis-Wikileaks: Greece becoming part of the dollar bloc is the bigger game played behind the scene
5 stars

bump
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5266728


hf
insertfunnyusername (OP)

User ID: 16046432
Greece
05/17/2012 03:23 PM

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Re: Truths and myths about Greece and the Greek crisis-Wikileaks: Greece becoming part of the dollar bloc is the bigger game played behind the scene
Great post OP. Thanks for taking the time to dispel the rumors and I wish you the best of luck.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3693501


Thank you for the kind words and wishes. Best of luck to you too.
insertfunnyusername (OP)

User ID: 16046432
Greece
05/17/2012 04:32 PM

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Re: Truths and myths about Greece and the Greek crisis-Wikileaks: Greece becoming part of the dollar bloc is the bigger game played behind the scene
bump for austerity!
Sammie

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05/17/2012 05:27 PM

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Re: Truths and myths about Greece and the Greek crisis-Wikileaks: Greece becoming part of the dollar bloc is the bigger game played behind the scene
Any who doesn't see that the Greek people have been chosen for this very public sacrifice is BLIND.

I have heard the smear campaign against the Greeks, mocking their work ethic and making assertions about the people wanting hand outs. It's absurd.

Governments do not make money, they collect (by force) and spend the people's earned labor. The people paid into these pensions. It only exists/existed due to the collection of labor hours from the public.
The people have a right (and responsibility imho) to demand their own money back.

And you're right OP, they won't stop there. They intend to loot the entire globe with their "buy it back for pennies" tactic. Unfortunately, so many people will not be able to see it coming because they are too busy following orders by bashing on their neighbor....a complete misdirection and distraction.

I'm sorry you even had to write this. Feel no shame for yourself, your people or your country. We are all in this together and there is not one innocent person here on GLP or on the globe. We are all caught up in the stains of monetary greed and corruption. Keeping speaking from your heart and uniting rather than dividing. I think you're doing a very good job t that and it is exactly what the world needs.
"Beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow".  ~Aesop


"Once in a dream I saw a snake swallowing its own tail, it swallowed and swallowed until it got halfway round, and there it stopped and there it stayed, it was stuffed with its own self. Some fix, that.
We only have ourselves to go on, and it’s enough…" -Charles Bukowski



"Grasping at things can only yield one of two results:
Either the thing you are grasping at disappears, or you yourself disappear.
It is only a matter of which occurs first."
-Goenka
Anonymous Coward
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05/17/2012 05:50 PM
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Re: Truths and myths about Greece and the Greek crisis-Wikileaks: Greece becoming part of the dollar bloc is the bigger game played behind the scene
Great post OP. Thanks for taking the time to dispel the rumors and I wish you the best of luck.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3693501


+1.

All the best with the continuing battle OP.
insertfunnyusername (OP)

User ID: 16046432
Greece
05/17/2012 05:53 PM

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Re: Truths and myths about Greece and the Greek crisis-Wikileaks: Greece becoming part of the dollar bloc is the bigger game played behind the scene
Any who doesn't see that the Greek people have been chosen for this very public sacrifice is BLIND.

I have heard the smear campaign against the Greeks, mocking their work ethic and making assertions about the people wanting hand outs. It's absurd.

Governments do not make money, they collect (by force) and spend the people's earned labor. The people paid into these pensions. It only exists/existed due to the collection of labor hours from the public.
The people have a right (and responsibility imho) to demand their own money back.

And you're right OP, they won't stop there. They intend to loot the entire globe with their "buy it back for pennies" tactic. Unfortunately, so many people will not be able to see it coming because they are too busy following orders by bashing on their neighbor....a complete misdirection and distraction.

I'm sorry you even had to write this. Feel no shame for yourself, your people or your country. We are all in this together and there is not one innocent person here on GLP or on the globe. We are all caught up in the stains of monetary greed and corruption. Keeping speaking from your heart and uniting rather than dividing. I think you're doing a very good job t that and it is exactly what the world needs.
 Quoting: Sammie


hf Thank you Sammie for your encouraging words.
You really get it. You don't have to be sorry about anything too. I feel no shame for meself or me country.
We are Greeks afterall and we've survived more serious threats in our history for centuries, but the Greek civilization and our relaxed way of life survived em all.
We have proved countless times as a nation that when TSHTF we pull are acts together and perform so i personally don't worry about a financial collapse. Bring it on i say, i'm bored already.
It is hard sometimes, especially for some people from the other side of the Atlantic where capitalism is tha king, to understand that all the people deserve a fair crack at life, a decent pension for the last days, a health insurance, a free education etc. These are the basic and principal values that democracy was built on. So I am very appreciative that you totally get it.

Last Edited by insertfunnyusername on 05/18/2012 10:23 AM
insertfunnyusername (OP)

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Greece
05/17/2012 05:58 PM

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Re: Truths and myths about Greece and the Greek crisis-Wikileaks: Greece becoming part of the dollar bloc is the bigger game played behind the scene
Great post OP. Thanks for taking the time to dispel the rumors and I wish you the best of luck.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3693501


+1.

All the best with the continuing battle OP.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1485336


Thank you!
Read a lot about your situation too and loved the way you said the bankers to shove it. I am delighted that your country is now prospering despite the whole world telling you otherwise.
I think we would love to have some tips from some of your politicians and citizens.
I mean the citizens voting for the own constitution?
Can't get more democratic than that.
insertfunnyusername (OP)

User ID: 16046432
Greece
05/17/2012 07:24 PM

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Re: Truths and myths about Greece and the Greek crisis-Wikileaks: Greece becoming part of the dollar bloc is the bigger game played behind the scene
bump with an interesting article from spiegel which pretty much states that euro was destined to have problems as single European currency, citing newly revealed German government documents.

Newly revealed German government documents reveal that many in Helmut Kohl's Chancellery had deep doubts about a European common currency when it was introduced in 1998

[link to www.spiegel.de]
-0-
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05/17/2012 07:35 PM
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Re: Truths and myths about Greece and the Greek crisis-Wikileaks: Greece becoming part of the dollar bloc is the bigger game played behind the scene
Cheers to you OP.

I am half Greek myself, and my father has always expected "arete". So to hear the bullshit about lazy Greeks makes me angry. I know better.

Being content with what you have and enjoying life does not equal laziness.
insertfunnyusername (OP)

User ID: 16046432
Greece
05/17/2012 07:41 PM

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Re: Truths and myths about Greece and the Greek crisis-Wikileaks: Greece becoming part of the dollar bloc is the bigger game played behind the scene
Cheers to you OP.

I am half Greek myself, and my father has always expected "arete". So to hear the bullshit about lazy Greeks makes me angry. I know better.

Being content with what you have and enjoying life does not equal laziness.
 Quoting: -0- 15176989


Cheers to you to my friend. Unfortunately i am afraid that this stink will hunt us for many years down the line and the unfair part is that it is untrue.
-0-
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05/17/2012 11:08 PM
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Re: Truths and myths about Greece and the Greek crisis-Wikileaks: Greece becoming part of the dollar bloc is the bigger game played behind the scene
Cheers to you OP.

I am half Greek myself, and my father has always expected "arete". So to hear the bullshit about lazy Greeks makes me angry. I know better.

Being content with what you have and enjoying life does not equal laziness.
 Quoting: -0- 15176989


Cheers to you to my friend. Unfortunately i am afraid that this stink will hunt us for many years down the line and the unfair part is that it is untrue.
 Quoting: insertfunnyusername



Maybe, symbolically, it is supposed to be this way, as history repeats itself in new forms; the fall of western civilization commences with Greece.
insertfunnyusername (OP)

User ID: 16046432
Greece
05/18/2012 09:22 AM

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Re: Truths and myths about Greece and the Greek crisis-Wikileaks: Greece becoming part of the dollar bloc is the bigger game played behind the scene
Cheers to you OP.

I am half Greek myself, and my father has always expected "arete". So to hear the bullshit about lazy Greeks makes me angry. I know better.

Being content with what you have and enjoying life does not equal laziness.
 Quoting: -0- 15176989


Cheers to you to my friend. Unfortunately i am afraid that this stink will hunt us for many years down the line and the unfair part is that it is untrue.
 Quoting: insertfunnyusername



Maybe, symbolically, it is supposed to be this way, as history repeats itself in new forms; the fall of western civilization commences with Greece.
 Quoting: -0- 15176989


Yep. You are totally right. I am pretty sure meself that Greece was chosen for a reason for this public sacrifice as Sammie states above. They want to ridicule and sacrifice first the civilization that our later western civilization and daily life was based on. It's 100% symbolic imho. The death of democracy. Who knows how things will pan out. Maybe, as Nietzsche states in that extract, something better and bigger for the world will emerge from Greece after the whole fiasco is over. But as i said in my op i don't think that Greece will manage to do this alone and with the world public opinion against her. People need to open their eyes.
grasptheuniverse

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Australia
05/18/2012 09:44 AM

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Re: Truths and myths about Greece and the Greek crisis-Wikileaks: Greece becoming part of the dollar bloc is the bigger game played behind the scene
A really insightful post and i have always felt sorry for what has happened to greece. Good luck
caz
WuDStefoto

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Belgium
05/18/2012 09:46 AM
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Re: Truths and myths about Greece and the Greek crisis-Wikileaks: Greece becoming part of the dollar bloc is the bigger game played behind the scene
yo neightbour - nobody will leave you - cvuz you are PROFIT

so many islands ..

anyway - well-said

the thing with the myths is that those myths MAKE PEOPLE FEAR - fear is a main-food for some parasites on Earth too..

peace yo
These dayz through THA REAL RAP (element of hip-hop)
-> (THERE iS NO REAL RAP ON TV or RADiOs) <-
is the only way youths listen to
the Prophets !!!


PROOF -> CAN YOU CATCH iT???

[link to www.youtube.com]

rememba: FEAR iS THA MiND-KiLLAH

LiGHT = iNFORMATiON ;D

peace2daUNIVERSE
insertfunnyusername (OP)

User ID: 16046432
Greece
05/18/2012 09:53 AM

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Re: Truths and myths about Greece and the Greek crisis-Wikileaks: Greece becoming part of the dollar bloc is the bigger game played behind the scene
yo neightbour - nobody will leave you - cvuz you are PROFIT

so many islands ..

anyway - well-said

the thing with the myths is that those myths MAKE PEOPLE FEAR - fear is a main-food for some parasites on Earth too..

peace yo
 Quoting: WuDStefoto


Very well said my friend!
insertfunnyusername (OP)

User ID: 16046432
Greece
05/18/2012 09:53 AM

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Re: Truths and myths about Greece and the Greek crisis-Wikileaks: Greece becoming part of the dollar bloc is the bigger game played behind the scene
A really insightful post and i have always felt sorry for what has happened to greece. Good luck
 Quoting: grasptheuniverse


Thank you!
insertfunnyusername (OP)

User ID: 16046432
Greece
05/18/2012 11:58 AM

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Re: Truths and myths about Greece and the Greek crisis-Wikileaks: Greece becoming part of the dollar bloc is the bigger game played behind the scene
bump with an article from Richard Cottrell with insightful info about the last coup in 1967 and the role of the US secret agencies in it and the plans of the globalists to sabotage the upcoming elections.
[link to endthelie.com]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 331367
Austria
05/18/2012 11:59 AM
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Re: Truths and myths about Greece and the Greek crisis-Wikileaks: Greece becoming part of the dollar bloc is the bigger game played behind the scene
And when do we get our money back we lent you?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16220576


haha .. never.

What to do ?

Buy gold and silver.
insertfunnyusername (OP)

User ID: 16046432
Greece
05/18/2012 02:22 PM

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Re: Truths and myths about Greece and the Greek crisis-Wikileaks: Greece becoming part of the dollar bloc is the bigger game played behind the scene
And when do we get our money back we lent you?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16220576


haha .. never.

What to do ?

Buy gold and silver.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 331367


Never is probably the most possible outcome but lets wait and see how this game will eventually pan out.
insertfunnyusername (OP)

User ID: 16046432
Greece
05/18/2012 03:54 PM

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Re: Truths and myths about Greece and the Greek crisis-Wikileaks: Greece becoming part of the dollar bloc is the bigger game played behind the scene
Shameless bump for mass firings!
Foveras

User ID: 16052530
Greece
05/18/2012 04:17 PM

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Re: Truths and myths about Greece and the Greek crisis-Wikileaks: Greece becoming part of the dollar bloc is the bigger game played behind the scene
Kalispera. Very nice report
Love responsibility,
keep saying, I alone
will save the world
If it gets lost, myself only is responsible

N.Kazantzakis
Foveras

User ID: 16052530
Greece
05/18/2012 04:18 PM

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Re: Truths and myths about Greece and the Greek crisis-Wikileaks: Greece becoming part of the dollar bloc is the bigger game played behind the scene
And of course 5* and pin suggested
Love responsibility,
keep saying, I alone
will save the world
If it gets lost, myself only is responsible

N.Kazantzakis
insertfunnyusername (OP)

User ID: 16046432
Greece
05/18/2012 04:27 PM

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Re: Truths and myths about Greece and the Greek crisis-Wikileaks: Greece becoming part of the dollar bloc is the bigger game played behind the scene
And of course 5* and pin suggested
 Quoting: Foveras


Kalispera Fovera. Thank you!hf
Sammie

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05/19/2012 04:59 PM

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Re: Truths and myths about Greece and the Greek crisis-Wikileaks: Greece becoming part of the dollar bloc is the bigger game played behind the scene
Op, I'm interested in your opinion regarding the first riots in Athens (I believe).

I recall watching it live on sky news online. I was awe struck when I kept hearing these loud BOOMS go off yet no one in the crowd was moving.

After awhile I realized it was tear gas causing the booms and that the reason the crowd was not breaking up was because they were wearing gas masks.

I thought, "Wow! The Greeks are seriously prepared. That is some professional rioting right there".

I was impressed. I mean who has their own gas masks for rioting?

However, it begs the question...... Professional Rioting? I know there has been a lot of social / political disputes in the recent history of Greece so I guess it isn't impossible that the people may have their own revolution gear but it also highly raises the suspicion that the rioting could have been started, prompted, or brought to new heights by sponsorship.

Take for instance the OWS movement here in the states. I believe there are a lot of people protesting by their own choice and I believe they have all right to be demonstrating but I am also suspect of who (what interested group or party) is behind the movement itself. It stinks of COINTEL, controlled opposition which aims to distract and discredit a sentiment or movement that might otherwise prove to be more successful.

I would be interested in your thoughts. How authentic were the riots? Do you believe they may have been sponsored to some degree (not in total of course, as naturally there was plenty for the people to be upset about)?

Political cue?


We saw this happen in so many countries recently.... Greece, London, Egypt etc.

Last Edited by Sammie on 05/19/2012 05:00 PM
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Foveras

User ID: 16052530
Greece
05/19/2012 05:13 PM

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Re: Truths and myths about Greece and the Greek crisis-Wikileaks: Greece becoming part of the dollar bloc is the bigger game played behind the scene
Op, I'm interested in your opinion regarding the first riots in Athens (I believe).

I recall watching it live on sky news online. I was awe struck when I kept hearing these loud BOOMS go off yet no one in the crowd was moving.

After awhile I realized it was tear gas causing the booms and that the reason the crowd was not breaking up was because they were wearing gas masks.

I thought, "Wow! The Greeks are seriously prepared. That is some professional rioting right there".

I was impressed. I mean who has their own gas masks for rioting?

However, it begs the question...... Professional Rioting? I know there has been a lot of social / political disputes in the recent history of Greece so I guess it isn't impossible that the people may have their own revolution gear but it also highly raises the suspicion that the rioting could have been started, prompted, or brought to new heights by sponsorship.

Take for instance the OWS movement here in the states. I believe there are a lot of people protesting by their own choice and I believe they have all right to be demonstrating but I am also suspect of who (what interested group or party) is behind the movement itself. It stinks of COINTEL, controlled opposition which aims to distract and discredit a sentiment or movement that might otherwise prove to be more successful.

I would be interested in your thoughts. How authentic were the riots? Do you believe they may have been sponsored to some degree (not in total of course, as naturally there was plenty for the people to be upset about)?

Political cue?


We saw this happen in so many countries recently.... Greece, London, Egypt etc.
 Quoting: Sammie

I'll place my personal experience and opinion. From 1974 and after Hounda (the military coup from 1967 to 1974) we had a part of left that form some terrorist organizations. Those organizations is always believed to be connected with the anarchist and with some other countries terrorist and anarchist mainly from Italy.. this means that the extremistic part of the left was always highly organized in Greece. As far as I remember my self every 17th of November at the celebration of Polytexnio there were riots. My father had a shop not near but not far away also, that eveytime that day we had to close just for procation. From 6 of December of 2009 after the pointless death of a 15yo student by a cop the riots became much more orginized and bigger. Of course there have always been reports and consipacy theories of goverment agencys leading the riots so that they can distract public opinion as well reports especially at 80s and 90s of Pasok being connected to terrorist organizations like 17th November. (Pasok just for the history began as a leftcenter party)

Last Edited by Foveras on 05/19/2012 05:15 PM
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insertfunnyusername (OP)

User ID: 16046432
Greece
05/19/2012 05:44 PM

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Re: Truths and myths about Greece and the Greek crisis-Wikileaks: Greece becoming part of the dollar bloc is the bigger game played behind the scene
Op, I'm interested in your opinion regarding the first riots in Athens (I believe).

I recall watching it live on sky news online. I was awe struck when I kept hearing these loud BOOMS go off yet no one in the crowd was moving.

After awhile I realized it was tear gas causing the booms and that the reason the crowd was not breaking up was because they were wearing gas masks.

I thought, "Wow! The Greeks are seriously prepared. That is some professional rioting right there".

I was impressed. I mean who has their own gas masks for rioting?

However, it begs the question...... Professional Rioting? I know there has been a lot of social / political disputes in the recent history of Greece so I guess it isn't impossible that the people may have their own revolution gear but it also highly raises the suspicion that the rioting could have been started, prompted, or brought to new heights by sponsorship.

Take for instance the OWS movement here in the states. I believe there are a lot of people protesting by their own choice and I believe they have all right to be demonstrating but I am also suspect of who (what interested group or party) is behind the movement itself. It stinks of COINTEL, controlled opposition which aims to distract and discredit a sentiment or movement that might otherwise prove to be more successful.

I would be interested in your thoughts. How authentic were the riots? Do you believe they may have been sponsored to some degree (not in total of course, as naturally there was plenty for the people to be upset about)?

Political cue?


We saw this happen in so many countries recently.... Greece, London, Egypt etc.
 Quoting: Sammie


You mean the first anti-bailout protests and riots right?
Because in December 2008 Athens center got literally burn.
Russian secret intelligence stated to the Greek ones that all these riots in 2008 was provoked by some "forces" so the can tarnish the image of the government, who got too close with Russia for the western interests likings.

The light booms you heard are noise & light grenades (not sure if that is the correct term in the US so correct me if i m wrong plz) and these grenades are very dangerous. A reporter got deaf for life last summer by these toys. In general many more people get down town these days to fight with the cops when the opportunity arises and are organized with everything. Gas masks, lemons, maalox, helmets. You have to go organized. It is a real battle. Never seen such amounts of tear gas used in me life. It is a good thing imo that more and more people are ready to give a physical battle for their rights. It shows the determination of the people and the cause. I ve even seen old women losing their coolness and throw a stone, coz the cops use extreme and unseen violence and this has turned the public opinion against them. There are about a thousand anarchists who are what i call professional rioters and are always there in every protest ready to fight.
The thing is though that the last years have emerged a lot of photos and videos with cops dressed as rioters and messing things up and in some cases even provoking the riots in peaceful protests. There is even a video circling around with some "anarchists" putting on fire a MacDonalds shop and then talking with a cop. The para-state in the extreme these cases, but it is a part of every riot these days and indeed provoke a lot of the shit that is happening. You don't know who you can trust or not these days in the protests. It's been a while since we had a good one though, but it's about to happen in the very near future, especially if the election result is against the public opinion's view.

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