Honest question to Canadians, about your healthcare system.

I for one sorry that the domestic (Slovenian) universal healthcare systems is vanishing due to the recession. Health is not something you can control entirely - way too many times shit happen to decent, hard working people without their fault. Accordingly to my ethic, they deserve the needed medical assistance.

*

So it seems like there are gripes with the system, but overall everyone seems to be pretty happy with it. Thank you everyone, I am getting to that time of night were it is hard to put my thoughts together due to booze, but I want to pick this up tomorrow.

This is sort of like the two-tiered system that Alberta keeps pushing for. But Albertans are as close to an American mentality as you can get in Canada.. so when there's money to be made, they are always up for throwing a wrench into the system. As a result? You get private clinics that suck up all of the good careworkers and leave the chaff for everyone else. Once again, the non-universal system FAILS on paper before it even gets off of the ground.



Waaat????



It's also worth mentioning here that prescription drugs aren't cheap in Canada. Forget 10 bucks. However overall, countries aren't modelling their system off of Canada's because it sucks. I recognize how lucky we are to have this system which is why I don't want any right-wing douchebags fucking it up!

Speaking about OHIP - Ontario Health Insurance Plan (free to all people in Ontario....If you call paying 30%+ income tax free)


A friend of mine was having severe back pain. Went to doctor and he scheduled an MRI. Problem was there was a 6 month wait.

He finally said fuck it and went to the good old USA and paid to get an MRI the following week. I think he paid about $800 for the MRI and got to review the results immediately with a Radiologist (or Neurologist...not sure which). When he (doctor) saw the MRI images he told my buddy that he needed surgery as soon as possible since a disc had ruptured and was pushing into the spinal column (and onto the nerves - thus the pain). US doctor was kind enough to give him all the spinal pictures and a CD with all the images on it.

The following day my buddies Mom had made some phone calls to friends and through some connections (favors) he got to see a Canadian specialist/doctor the following week. Long story shorter.....he went to see the doctor...yadda yadda yadda....doctor said I need to send you for a MRI....buddy said "I already did and here are the images".....Specialist looked at them and basically said OMG! you need surgery now. The following week he was in the hospital getting surgery for a ruptured disk.


Canadian medical system works....kinda.

Expect 8 hr waits at Emergency (hospital)
Expect long delays (sometimes months) to see a specialist. Depends on service/specialist required.

I personnaly cannot complain since I have had no major issues. My brother-in-law needed a heart valve replacement and he was on the operating table within a few weeks of being diagnosed.

One other thing.....They say that the Canadian health care system is a one tier system. i.e. everyone treated the same and no special treatment. This is kind of untrue if you know someone in the medical profession. Also...Government officials have been known to bump to the front of the lines.

Last Edited by Morpheus on 05/31/2012 04:40 AM

The Obamacare system seems to me to be closer to the Israeli model than the Canadian one.

Personally, I think the medical system sucks everywhere. They always prescribe drugs when lifestyle changes and nutrition are what is really needed.

When our son developed hydrocephalus after a bad fall, we took him to New Mexico to be treated by a chropractor/cranial sacral therapist and used homeopathy for a complete cure rather than accept the free brain surgery that would have left him with a permanent disability.

Also, to the poster who said we pay 50% capital gains tax, I call BS. It's 25%. Unfortunately they suck everybody into putting their retirement savings into registered plans where the gains are taxed as income. Capital gains is a scam anyway in a fiat money system. They inflate the currency and then tax you for keeping up with inflation.

When comparing taxes between countries, you also have to look at the entire tax burden. There are places in the USA where the property taxes are very high compared to other countries.

Last Edited by Deplorable Klinger on 05/31/2012 05:00 AM

I got a profit sharing check from work this year and many times in the late 1990's when the auto industry was doing well. The tax rate was 52% (i.e. if I got $10,000 from the company....after taxes I received $4,800 !)

As far as your comment about RRSP gains...You are wrong about that. The tax you pay on your RRSP withdraws are based upon the income derived from the RRSP withdrawls over that tax year + other income you may have. FACT

Last Edited by Morpheus on 05/31/2012 06:13 AM

American here in New Zealand.

Insurance in the States was a killer. You can feel trapped in a job because of insurance. You have to worry about disclosing a chronic disorder to new employers because of insurance issues - it goes on and on.

My insurance was over $600 a month, and when my kid ended up in the hospital I had to fight for two years to get them to finally cover the last $30,000 of the bill. The stress was a nightmare.

Having a free health care here is unbelievable. I rarely go anyway, but one of my kids has a lot of issues. There are small fees, maybe $10 a visit, unless you have a "community services card" - people actually complain about fees here - they can't imagine what an American faces. It seems to me that some people go to the doctor's too often here because it's nearly free, but I don't actually know the statistics.

Even when you don't qualify for free healthcare, I paid for a 4 day hospital stay here out of pocket before we were residents. It was only about $4000. It would probably have bankrupted me in the States.

They go out of the way giving out handouts in New Zealand. Wayyy to much in my opinion. Gets heavy for the tax payers. But I guess it's also peace of mind not worrying about your neighbours.

It's nice not having to worry about the "what if" I get sick or hurt - even on an unconscious level. There was a time I couldn't afford health insurance as a younger person in the States and got hurt quite badly. I laid in bed a long time - slow heal without stitches.

It is the best in the world. i went to the doctor for a syntroide prescription and after an examen, the doctor send me right away to the hospital to pass examen for breast cancer. In the same day I had an echographie, mamographie, X-ray and cardiograme and the next week I had 2 scans. 3 week later we start the chemo. I just finishing 9 chemo treatments for a breast cancer. With all the medication it will have cost me over 25,000.00 only in medication. One dose of neupogene cost 220.00 and I had 9 X 7 shots of it. I will never been able to pay for it. But here we take care of our peoples. Rich or poor.

Yes we pay tax and income but it come back to us as good health service.

The only problem with the system is that a lot of peoples use the system because they have nothing else to do.

Urgence is urgence and the others have to wait. The trouble is that we don't have enough family doctors. But it don't mind. We just go to the hospital and if it is serious they take care of you right away.

Yes. I should've have wrote it as 40% of 50% not as 40-50%.

Property tax as I see it would be relative between the two countries. Canada certainly has its share of ultra high property tax as well!

From my observations Canadians are still taxed overall at a substantially higher rate than the USA. Although the tax burden might be more equally shared in Canada across all the tax brackets than it is the USA. Maybe this is as Canada has what, around 40 million population where the USA is around 400 million? Our top brackets certainly pay more than they do!

I've used both medical systems (through the USA's MAYO CLINICs) and the quality of care, like Canada appears to vary by geographic location and/or facility and the company providing it. Being limited to medical services without additional charge is by the province in which you live. If you go to another province for care without additional insurance you are charged!

Like I said, top-level trauma care quality is really about the same, and that might even be where the Canadian model truly excels! You're not bankrupted due to trauma level injury.

I wonder though if our model has a greater level of abuse than the USA does? Which might contribute to the longer wait times for procedures?

yeah you do indeed pay through taxes. taxes everywhere are more than in the us.

can't tell you about heart transplants. can tell you we have a doctor shortage in my province.

That is illegal, and the police should be immediately notified. If that was allowed to happen the system would collapse.

we, i am canadian, have one of the best healthcare systems in the world with the highest quality care. ive been hospitalized several times through surgery or emergencys, eachtimes completely cared for until i was ready to leave in a friendly way and pay nothing! i must be a communist!
all of europe and the commonwealth have these systems or at least systems that incorparate the both, giving equal access to medicine to all
germany switwerland have private insurance and state, as does every other country in the union
these systems have thier problems but they work, it is our right!. its an embarrassment to the civilised world that amerikans fight venomously against it.
because they believe its socialist, yes its rooted in a social ideaso i guess every county in europe the uk canada and oz as well as new zealand, were all commies
im shaking my head here in disbelief

It gets the job done. They prioritize thus creating waiting lists. I can get into my doctor on the same day I call 80% of the time. Never wait more than 3 or 4 days.

Emergency situations where you walk in you will be seen by a nurse within 1 minute. She assess if it is serious or not. If it is the doctor will see you within a few minutes.

Having been to both US and Canadian hospitals for treatment, the big difference is when it is not a life threatening emergency.

If the emergency is busy in Canada you may wait for 3-10 hours to see a doctor. In the states, if you have the money/insurance you are in quickly.

Both systems have their pros and cons.

Canadian Health Care is not free either. We pay taxes out the wazoo for it. The ideal system is a mix of private and public without insurance companies be allowing to dictate, approve/decline treatment.

Insurance Companies fuck the whole system up IMO.

Oh and specialty doctors are not paid enough in my local.

For example in New Brunswick the maximum a Cardiologist can make is $500 - $550K per year where in Nova Scotia the starting salary for one is as high as $750K.

I assume that there is no maximum in the USA. We lose a lot of doctors because of this which can lead to longer wait times.

One thing though, if they can get a serious illness or injury treated ASAP locally they will keep looking until they find a place to ship you, even if it is in the USA.

My insurance covers 80% of prescription meds cost. We pay total insurance of $200 per month for a family of 4 (used to be 6 until 2 got too old and moved out) and that covers treatment required outside of Canada too.

The OP pays $2800/month? That is a fail for the US system IMO.

That $200 covers dental 80% and eyes 80%. I would suspect that by adding in tax dollars that we pay about $5000 per year.

I could not afford $2800/month.

You "hear horror stories" told by people who a) are not Canadian and b) have a vested interest in maintaining the current US private in$urance-ba$ed system.

I live in a remote area, but have never had trouble getting an ambulance. I am an hour from town, had an ambulance here within half an hour - boy they must have flown down the back roads! And communities have first responders on call to leap in to help until an ambulance can get there. Canada may not have a flawless system, but it is far better than USA. My sister lives in the states, and after paying thousands and thousands of dollars just to have a baby - well, I doubt they will ever be able to have another one. It was unreal. Every appointment, ultrasound, cost hundreds. I was very grateful to be living in canada when I had my tow girls, as both were hihg-risk pregnancies that needed a lot of monitoring. I would have been bankrupt! Canada rules - wonderful country, wonderful people, anyone else that says otherwise is either american or crazy. May noot be perfect, but it is nonetheless wonderful to be here.

I just remembered something. I had to seek emergency treatment in the USA a few years ago. Needed stitches for a deep cut.

The emergency room took my Canadian Insurance card and my Drivers License, made copies, fixed me up and sent me on my way.

It cost $1000 because I got a copy of the bill from my Insurance Company. They 100% covered the cost.

I was prescribed pain meds and antibiotics but the Rite Aid would not accept my insurance card. It was over $100 for pills.

The Pharmacist said for me not to worry and slid some card through the cash register that knocked the price down to $20. I was too looped up to know exactly what she did but maybe it was a welfare swipe or some shit.

Anyway it worked for me.

Not true. 50% of the capital gain is "on the house" (so it is not taxed at all), and then the remaining 50% is taxed at your marginal tax rate. For a high-income individual that rate can approach 50%, but you are only paying it on half of the gain so it works out to 25% which is not all that unreasonable for basically free money that you did not even have to work for.

Also, I make close to $80K a year and to be honest I don't really feel that ripped off at tax time. I have everything I need, no debt and way more income than I spend each month. There are ways to minimize the tax hit (we get credit for contributing to a registered retirement account, for example so most of my surplus income goes in there and I actually get thousands back from the taxman each year.

Taxes are what we pay for a civilized society and I'd rather have it this way that living in fear of losing health insurance on top of losing my job, or getting jumped on the way home one night and waking up in the ER with a $25,000 bill.

Only time I use "the Health care system" is if I'm on my deathbed, otherwise,it's too much of a pain in the ass... I find it a bit of a joke as well, seeing that I'm usually giving the doctor my diagnosis.. All I'm usually @ a doctors office is to get a prescription, because unfortunately I'm not an accredited physician, and cannot write them myself.

Actually that's not correct, we have air ambulances that service remote areas.

The biggest problems is wait times for non life threatening surgeries, for example, my Dad is on a list right now waiting to have a knee replacement. He's in a lot of pain and they said it could take minimum 3 months to get him in. His summer is going to suck because of this. :(

Doctors are the only ones that can determine what is life threatening, and your position on waiting lists. Money doesnt determine it. In the US or other for profit systems, it would be the non insured whose summer sucks, no matter their medical condition -- and that is the difference in the two systems: one is as fair as it can be, while the other is not and is fundamentally flawed, and riddled with cruel unjustified horror stories.

True enough, but you should consider changing doctors.

One thing is for sure, our system is much better than your medical-aid-for-the-rich only healthcare.

Well, just went through a hip replacement which turned into a nightmare because of the long wait list.

HOWEVER, once that was fixed, the physio, meds, etc etc were given free of charge and immediately.

I really do not have any complaints on the whole though. If there's a problem, I'm sent for tests. If I need meds, my MD actually gives me samples so I do not have to buy them. If there's an emergency, I have options - go to a walk in clinic or to the emerg, but I know I can expect a two to three hour wait if I'm standing. If it is life threatening, then treatment is immediate.

My elderly parents are treated well. VON nurses come to their home if they're not up to driving in.

Naw, got no complaints really. So my taxes pay for this. I'm real good with that.

Cheers!

I think it's pretty good. If I need to see my doc, I call and get in within a day or 2. If I need an X-ray, done, same day.
There is a big wait for other things though, like MRI's etc. unless you admit yourself into emergency, then they will do it ASAP if they feel it's needed.

They also don't force pills on you as much as they do in the US, at least that's what I was told.

Is it true that when you go to your doc, they will suggest you go on some kind of medication for whatever reason?
They get a bonus if you take the prescription.

No one in my country go's Bankrupt from hospital Bills, and very very few people are put in the hospital threw violent means(Gun shots, stab Wounds,ect).
Less Freedom with weapons , more peaceful somehow.

Yes, it was corrected earlier on this page!

And yes I'm of the opinion it is an unreasonable amount in the case where the capital gain tax is applied to a sold business you owned and operated personally - that you DID work for and was certainly NOT free money. Other than that I'd agree.

I think a lot of Canadians have a hard time wrapping around their heads how much medical care costs in the states - the very notion of going bankrupt from medical care (and not missed work or whatever) because you got sick is staggering.

It's true there are wait lists for a lot of things (esp. non-urgent things like joint replacements) but a lot of that has to do with geography. There's simply no way to spread out that level of care to certain regions (i.e. The North) - what may take 6 months/a year of waiting in one region might take 3 weeks in Toronto or a major city. I don't think it's a failing of the system really, it's just part of living in an extremely rural area.

Dude, I had a minor heart attack in a backwoods bullshit Canadian town...I was stabilized in a great rural hospital, medivaced by helicopter to one of the five best cardiac units in North America, had two stents installed in a operating room that looked like a cross between starwars and a football stadium...and it did not cost me a nickle.

Dude, I had a minor heart attack in a backwoods bullshit Canadian town...I was stabilized in a great rural hospital, medivaced by helicopter to one of the five best cardiac units in North America, had two stents installed in a operating room that looked like a cross between starwars and a football stadium...and it did not cost me a nickle.