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A Counter-refutation concerning quantum mechanics and Haramein/Rauscher's theory for Bob. We needn't have this conversation again, Bob.

 
Piscesian Misesian
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06/06/2012 12:48 AM
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A Counter-refutation concerning quantum mechanics and Haramein/Rauscher's theory for Bob. We needn't have this conversation again, Bob.
Hello, GLPers. I wrote this counter-refutation for a few friends of mine, in the interest of the Method, and figured I may as well post it on this forum for those of you interested in some very recent break-throughs in the field of physics. The original work in question, the Schwarzchild Proton model, theorized by Nassim Haramein and Dr. Elizabeth Rauscher collaboratively, is currently in the peer review/publication process.

This theory, thus far, appears to have unified Einstein's theories of relativity with accepted quantum mechanics by way of a theory of quantum gravity replacing the strong nuclear force, an addition of torque intrinsic in the vacuum to account for sustained angular momentum, and vacuum discretion, dispelling the magical, mystical, unobservable "dark matter" and "dark energy", hypothesized by the Standard Model.
The original paper is found at the link at the bottom.
This is very dense material, full of discipline-specific jargon, but if you can get past the wall of text, I am certain you will learn some very pertinent information regarding this strange reality that we live in. I highly encourage you to look into the theory yourself, if you are so inclined, and welcome relevant, conflicting opinions. This subject matter cannot possibly be underscrutized, as we are dealing with The Big Question, here.
For the record, I am 22 years old college drop-out, born and raised in Alabama.

Ron Paul, ya'll.
Enjoy.

Key: SM - Standard Model
Bold: Bob's section headlines

This is a counter-refutation to a ham-handed attack on the work of Nassim Haramein and Elizabeth Rauscher in the field of quantum physics, specifically their model of singularity and the nature of the vacuum, written hopefully to be decipherable by the lay-individual. I normally don't do this sort of thing, but the original writer, Bob, was so inflammatory, so disrespectful, and so wrong I could hardly resist.

Meant to be read side-by-side with:What's so Misleading About Nassim Haramein? by Bob [link to azureworld.blogspot.com]

I will be contacting Bob with the following information-- I do so hope he will publicly reply.Your concepts of relativity, by the way, are spot on. Unfortunately, we're playing chess instead of checkers here, Bob.

1./a.'The Hype and the Schwartzchild Proton' and 'The force between protons' refuted

When viewing the proton from the SM frame of reference, the mass and nature of the Schwartzchild model of the proton seems outlandish, almost absurdly disproportionate. However,

"This isn't the only example – There are many others. He also tells us that every atom of our body contains protons which have a mass of 885 million tonnes each. That ought to raise a few (very heavy) eyebrows too." --Bob

The above quotation hedges around Haramein's/Rauscher's model of the proton, skewing it, in fact; what we call a "red herring", were it intentional. It's a misconception I had for weeks as well, so I can certainly sympathize.

In Haramein's and Rauscher's documentation[1], the mass of the proton extrapolated in their unification theory is not able to be isolated from the "other" protons, or what we classically view as all of the "individual" protons in reality relative to "each" other, to obtain objective data concerning the nature of the system.
These seemingly astronomical figures of mass are a result of the ultimate entanglement of all protons, which can be more accurately thought of as a single entity, all interconnected and "sharing" a fractalized mass, or one fractal set of information; a frame of reference from which you are unable to extract meaningful data from the mass of a "single" proton. When attempting to measure an "isolated" proton as Bob insists upon doing, however, you obtain a figure of 10^-24gm/proton volume, which necessitated, in the SM's eyes, the alleged "strong nuclear force" at the proton level--a hypothetical force lacking causality. More on that later.

Seeing as how Bob is so disgusted by hyperbole of any sort, I'll go ahead and point out a spot of his own misleading exageration here: "How can this be the force holding protons together? You can separate protons from a nucleus by tapping them with a tiny electron in a small accelerator."-Bob

The force that Bob is skeptical of is the force of gravity in the atomic nucleus.

Here, Bob is referring to a nuclear fission reaction, by which fermionic wave-functions (Bob would call them "masses") are accelerated very near the speed of light, and the electrons are set on a trajectory to slam into a magnetically suspended group of protons while moving at ~c. The "tininess" of the electron in the "small" accelerator has precisely zero relevance to the forces unleashed when the Coulomb resistance factor in an atomic nucleus is overcome. We'll review for Bob's sake: Mass x Acceleration=Force. In this case, the acceleration is ~c. With any measurable mass at all, this is a staggering amount of force relative to anything of Newtonian scale that we experience on a daily basis. Let us speak no further of "tiny" electrons in a little accelerator, Bob. We're talking nuclear fission, gamma radiation, and neutrons dissociating from a nucleus.

b. 'Introducing the theory to the world: He's literally mathematically proved it!'

"Is he blind enough to actually believe he's proved something, or is he deliberately misleading? I don't know.
...you'll find him explaining why it's important that he can prove that we're all one with the universe (and the vacuum energy). "Not one in an esoteric way that's not really palpable, that's not really able to be understood, but one with everything in an actual physical and mathematical way that I can write an equation and tell you why."
Of course he can't write any such equation – it's completely false." -Bob, quoting/responding to Haramein, Haramein italicized.

I'm afraid you haven't done your research, Bob. You are right in one regard, however; Nassim did not write any such equation.
Casimir did, half a century before him. Your ad hominem whining later in this section also has a semblence of truth about it-- without observable experimentation to prove energy exists intrinsically in the vacuum, then we're just theoretically beating off, aren't we?
Let's discuss the Casimir experiment, Bob.
Reproduced in laboratories across the world and initially theorized by Hendrik Casimir and Dirk Polder in 1948, the Casimir effect (later re-koined the Dynamic Casimir effect, but lets discuss static for simplicity) was demonstrated when Hendrik Casimir insisted that if energy is intrinsically fundamental to the vacuum, then we should be able to measure it. The experiment is as follows: Casimir suspends two steel plates mere microns apart, isolating short photonic wavelengths (ultraviolet and higher) from long photonic wavelengths (sub-infrared). The resulting imbalance of forces outside of the plates relative to inside creates a micro-gradient in vacuum, causing the plates to move together precisely as predicted by Casimir and Polder, as the force outside of the plate is greater, and compresses the system relative to the lesser force inside the micro gradient of the system. In light of this confirmation, Bob, we have unequivocably demonstrated (in one of several routes possible) that the vacuum has discretion, is in fact, "there", and is not empty void, as you insist. Even the SM'ers theorize a "quantum foam" for goodness' sakes, Bob.

2./a. 'Misunderstanding Basic Physics'

Here, in only your second section, Bob, we begin to see a truly unfortunate snowballing effect of misunderstanding, and alot of the above refutation deals directly with your further insistances.

"Why would something need to contract anyway? If space itself expands, then there just is more space. Why would anything need to contract to make room for it? Seven years later, he's still milking the same story, and still misusing the same piece of 8th grade physics. The point is that he's using this law despite it being completely irrelevant. He uses it to 'prove' that "obviously something is contracting". This becomes a big theme in many of his other ideas. There's nothing 'obvious' about it – unless your version of obvious is feeling like "yeah, looks obvious to me, and you look like you're convinced so I'll go with it." It's terrible misinformation. I think people deserve better than this." -Bob

It's your nomenclature that gives you away, Bob. Keeping in mind our above discussion of the Casimir effect, we see clearly that "if space expands, then there is [absolutely not just] more space.", that there is, in fact, additional discretion. Structure. Geometry. Energy intrinsic in that expanding space. Furthermore, the vacuum is not merely expanding, it is in fact observably accelerating.You seem not to recognize that for a system to accelerate there must be an energetic input. From whence is this energy coming from, Bob? You seem quick to accuse Haramein, Rauscher, and, whether you knew it or not, Casimir and Polder, also indirectly Thorne, Wheeler, and Misner, fathers of modern gravity theory, of fraud. Does this seemingly invisible energy input come from the immeasurable, unobservable, magical, mystical "dark energy" and "dark matter" invented by the SM'ers, loosely based off of Einstein's Cosmological Constant? Was there anyone else amongst the titans of theoretical physics that you wanted to take a shot at?
Your and my definitions of the scientific method seem to be at odds, Bob.

"Of course not everybody knows or cares about Newton's laws of motion – but remember this man claims to be a world-leading physicist. (Indeed, in this clip he gloats about how his "first law of physics" insight stopped all the other physicists in the room in their tracks... I can't help feeling that if they had "blank look on their faces" it might not have been for the reason he's suggesting.) --Bob

I will concede that Haramein did indeed mispeak in the referenced lecture, but not in the manner which Bob insists. Listen again to what you oh-so-slyly took out of context with a not-so-subtle misquotation: Nassim is clearly heard to say, "some of the first laws of physics". Glad I could clear it up.

b.'Why the night sky is black', Bob's misconceptions, and red herrings

"First off, a mass can't exceed an escape velocity. That's like saying there's more corn in your barn than the national speed limit – it doesn't make sense. I think he's trying to say that there is so much mass in the Universe that the escape velocity exceeds the speed of light. Perhaps it just came out mangled. -Bob

You're right, Bob. He does in fact, confirmed by later clarification in a more recent lecture, that he is referencing the mass of the universe being too great for light to escape it. It's Haramein's second language, and he's speaking in front of a live audience. Your grace here is appreciated.

"Secondly, he's describing a closed universe, which all observations in the last ten years seem to suggest is nothing like the one we live in. Thirdly, even if we do live in a closed universe, that doesn't mean light bounces around stars and comes back to you at all – it means that everything ultimately falls together in a big crunch at the end of time. (Kind of a re-union with the light, I suppose... but nothing like he makes it sound.) And fourthly, a closed universe isn't a black hole. (Unless you stretch your definition of black hole by a very long way.)" -Bob

No, Bob, he is not describing a closed universe. He is describing precisely the opposite: open systems, with the universe being one of infinite gradients in the iteration of reality.
Yes, Bob, the universe does behave in a manner congruent to the Schwartzchild solution for Einstein's field equations as a relationship of mass to frequency. The solution predicts singularity. Singularity is a black hole, but we're not discussing the "black hole" of the SM, where no coherent information can possibly escape the gravitational field. That model of a black hole has been debunked by observation-- Quasars and Blazars -- both black hole systems emitting coherent information at their magnetic poles, with streams originating inside the ergosphere of the system. So the term "black hole", koined by Wheeler in an era of lesser understanding, is somewhat obsolete, isn't it? Maybe white/black (w)hole is more accurate considering the torroidal-feedback, cyclical, energetically recycling fields of emissed coherency observed around every such system to date. In such case, we're not describing the universe as a "black hole" or a closed system, but rather a feedback, torroidally shaped gradient that light does not escape from, but outside of which is the radiative side of the gradient, and very likely additional (ad infinitum) gradients upwards, just as the Planck's length is not likely to be the "smallest possible" unit on the opposite end of the observable gradient spectrum. The universe is the largest gradient that we interact with, but even the SM predicts a multiverse, or larger gradients in which our observable universe is embedded. The photon on the other hand (planck's length) is the smallest we interact with, but how silly to think that reality creates structure and discretion only down to an arbitrary gradient. I.e., reality makes things this small, and then decides to quit. We'll discuss this more while we dismantle your Phi section, Bob.

c.'Peer Review'

This section of your document, Bob, consists of little more than ad hominem, directionless attacks on Haramein and Rauscher, in which you give no examples, no quotations, and leaves something (anything, really) to be desired. I think that sums it up.

d. 'Atoms as mini white wholes / black holes'

"Skip to 7:30 in the same video. "Some of the largest, most comprehensive unification theories that are trying to be worked out now – and are incorrect because they're missing the fractal component – by Stephen Hawking, for instance, describe all subatomic particles as mini black holes. And the Hadron Collider that's being built in Geneva that I mentioned earlier is being built to search for these mini white whole/black holes for subatomic particles." -Bob quoting Haramein, Haramein italicized

The above Haramein quotation is a misspeak on Haramein's part, which is rectified in later, more mature/developed live presentations. This theory didn't just sh*t itself out one day, of course--as in all science, there is trial and error. Also, Nassim's eccentricity and the fact that English is his second language both lend themselves to being made fun of, for sure. What he meant (and later clarifies in a newer lecture) is that the white/black (w)holes will be incidentally observable as the particles collide, rather than that being the specific purpose of the machine.
Ya got him there red-handed, Bob.
But, since you brought up the subject of observable evidence in the Large Hadron Collider, let's go ahead and extrapolate that data where you failed to.
The fact that these relatively small singularities observably evaporate lends credence to and reinforces the above stated expansion/contraction model of the vacuum, Whereas the SM (specifically Bob's hero, Stephen Hawking, with his "Hawking Radiation" hypothesis involving incoherent information escaping the SM definition of a "black hole", which was later disproven) described the black hole as impossible for coherent information to escape. Now they've observed and understand what quasars and blazars are, and they're all slapping their foreheads, scrambling for a new model. Both are white/black (w)holes with coherent information escaping at the magnetic poles, so that one's up in the air for SMers. Nassim's and Elizabeth's model on the other hand, once again, predicts the phenomenon not only with blazars and quasars, but every gradient of the vacuum iteration, down to the sub-atomic level. The emissions at the magnetic poles in all gradients of the vacuum which occurr due to intrinsic torque in the geometry of spacetime, whether the entire universe or a single atom, are eventually drawn back towards the singularity in a compressive manner at the relative equatorial region of the gradient, making a double-torroidal system. Double torroids are ubiquitous throughout observable nature.

e.'Biological cells are white/black (w)holes, too'

"The cell biology - the biological resolution of a cell - actually obeys the Schwarzschild Condition of a black hole, because it generates so much energy. 10^11 is a huge number." -Haramein

"First of all, let's be clear, a frequency of 10^11 Hertz isn't huge – it's tiny. A single photon of light – the tiniest amount of light that it's possible to have – has a frequency of over a thousand times more than this. And a single photon of light doesn't generate a lot of energy. But that's an aside." -Bob

First of all, Bob, Haramein is not describing the cell wall/membrane as being boundary conditions for a black/white (w)hole. He is describing the microtubules, in fact -orders of magnitude smaller- as obeying the Scwartzchild condition in their 10^11 Hertz oscillations. Yes, Bob, a single photon of light has a frequency over a thousand times greater, and no, a photon of light does not generate a lot of energy. A photon of light is bosonic, Bob. It has no mass, so no, even at those hard-to-fathom frequencies, a photon does not carry much energy. A microtubule, on the other hand, is fermionic. It is massive, and when something of the scale of a microtubule oscillates with 10^11 Hz, the radius/frequency of the system exceeds the condition to conform to the Schwartzchild radius. Thus indeed, The microtubules making up a cell wall/membrane do behave individually as black/white (w)holes. Another attempted red herring?

"Haramein uses the term event horizon all over the place. He uses it to mean the membrane of a cell in this video. Which makes no sense, because we can see inside a cell." -Bob

Again, there are two aspects of each gradient of the vacuum: a radiative, expansive side, and a gravitational, compressive side. We see a cell because the ergosphere of the singularity at the center of each microtubule in a cell is the radiative side, and any given distance outside of the ergosphere of the singularity, the radiative, expansive capacity is greater than the gravitational, compressive capacity.

3./a. 'Quantum Mechanics and the strong nuclear force'

"I hope to do a separate post about this at some point. I'll put a link here when I've done it. Because this little bundle of schoolboy errors is the basis of his attempt to unify gravity with the strong force, which has been reported by some sources on the internet as if it's cutting-edge research. It's not." -Bob

I won't hold my breath.
When SM'ers looked at the atomic nucleus and saw like-charged particles overcoming a seemingly insurmountable coulomb resistance and orbitting around one another very closely using the SM of the proton, they thought, My god. Gravity cannot be the force holding these particles together. It must be some other force. And so the "strong nuclear force" was invented. It was named so because the force needed to overcome the coulomb resistance factor in an atomic nucleus needed to be....really...strong. :-/
This applied at the atomic nucleus gradient, and the force had no causality, nothing in reality to make it exist. SM'ers observed something that they could not explain, and so invented an explanation. Zero causality, Bob.

What you're describing as "not cutting edge research", I can only assume you mean in terms of how recent the subject was broached. What you are dismissively describing is the mechanism of Quantum Gravity, Bob. It is the widely declared holy grail of particle physics, with everyone from Einstein, to Planck, Misner, Scwartzchild, Witten, Thorne, Wheeler, not to mention half the physics grad students slaving over a hot mini-collider in their department's basement, searching for it to no avail for the last century.
Also, interestingly, at the quark level of the iteration (below protons) another force had to be hypothesized in the SM to overcome the coulomb force at this gradient. They couldn't call it the "strong strong" force, so they named it the "color force", a force holding quarks together. It was calculated that this "color force" had to be an infinitely strong force in order for quarks to maintain coherency -- again an example of infinitely large quantities cropping up in institutionalized physics for which they have no response, nor even a strategy to approach an explanation.
In light of an infinitely energetic vacuum and the Nassim Rauscher collaboration, however, they are not only expected, but fundamental.

"I'll explain why I'm saying this at another time. In the meantime, don't take my word for it – check it out yourself. Investigate." -Bob

Hopefully I've saved you the trouble, and explained what you've failed to say at this time, Bob.

And swallow a dram of your own medicine, for ****'s sake:
"...(I)nvestigate." -Bob

[1] [link to theresonanceproject.org]

Last Edited by Piscesian Misesian on 06/06/2012 12:55 AM
Pursue Truth.

This hard, tangible thing we call reality: the chair you sit upon, the computer, your beverage, cigarette, the air around you, is composed of 99.99999...% Space. Contrary to popular belief, energy-mass does not define the Space, but rather is defined -by- the Space. The all-permeating Space is a vibrating, infinitely dense medium of geometric discretion; a cube octahedral vector equillibrium. This is the One existence, and the only thing that exists, simultaneously. There is nothing else.

We do not live in a "big bang" universe.
We do not live in a "created" reality.
Our reality is a perpetually -creating- model, and It is aware.
Space is aware.
I AM aware.
"God", some call it.
Anonymous Coward
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06/06/2012 01:00 PM
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Re: A Counter-refutation concerning quantum mechanics and Haramein/Rauscher's theory for Bob. We needn't have this conversation again, Bob.
bumprockypaul
Piscesian Misesian (OP)

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06/06/2012 01:18 PM
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Re: A Counter-refutation concerning quantum mechanics and Haramein/Rauscher's theory for Bob. We needn't have this conversation again, Bob.
I hope the thread isn't overly intimidating in its format; certainly not it's content. Thanks fer the 5*'s, ya'll!


I do very much hope there are other young physics-inclined individuals on GLP...Perhaps the female sort.
Pursue Truth.

This hard, tangible thing we call reality: the chair you sit upon, the computer, your beverage, cigarette, the air around you, is composed of 99.99999...% Space. Contrary to popular belief, energy-mass does not define the Space, but rather is defined -by- the Space. The all-permeating Space is a vibrating, infinitely dense medium of geometric discretion; a cube octahedral vector equillibrium. This is the One existence, and the only thing that exists, simultaneously. There is nothing else.

We do not live in a "big bang" universe.
We do not live in a "created" reality.
Our reality is a perpetually -creating- model, and It is aware.
Space is aware.
I AM aware.
"God", some call it.
Starsandfunk
User ID: 8422525
United Kingdom
06/06/2012 01:20 PM
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Re: A Counter-refutation concerning quantum mechanics and Haramein/Rauscher's theory for Bob. We needn't have this conversation again, Bob.
Well every single response written by this poster is pure rubbish, and largely contains outright lies.

But rather than waste my time debunking all of his nonsense, i'm going to point out one simple example in order to discredit everything else this poster has said.

2./a. 'Misunderstanding Basic Physics'
In this section, the 'Alabama drop out poster' accused Bob (a real Physicist) of taking harafraud out of context and posts this message for Bob:

"Listen again to what you oh-so-slyly took out of context with a not-so-subtle misquotation: Nassim is clearly heard to say, "some of the first laws of physics". Glad I could clear it up."

Yet if you visit the video on youtube, you find that Bob is 100% correct because at the 03.00 mark, haramein, with a knowing smug look on his face slowly and CLEARLY SAYS:
"THE FIRST LAW OF PHYSICS" (visit the link below)

[link to www.youtube.com]

Glad I COULD clear it up :)
Suggest you go back to school Mr Dropout.
Piscesian Misesian (OP)

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United States
06/06/2012 01:31 PM
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Re: A Counter-refutation concerning quantum mechanics and Haramein/Rauscher's theory for Bob. We needn't have this conversation again, Bob.
Well every single response written by this poster is pure rubbish, and largely contains outright lies.

But rather than waste my time debunking all of his nonsense, i'm going to point out one simple example in order to discredit everything else this poster has said.

2./a. 'Misunderstanding Basic Physics'
In this section, the 'Alabama drop out poster' accused Bob (a real Physicist) of taking harafraud out of context and posts this message for Bob:

"Listen again to what you oh-so-slyly took out of context with a not-so-subtle misquotation: Nassim is clearly heard to say, "some of the first laws of physics". Glad I could clear it up."

Yet if you visit the video on youtube, you find that Bob is 100% correct because at the 03.00 mark, haramein, with a knowing smug look on his face slowly and CLEARLY SAYS:
"THE FIRST LAW OF PHYSICS" (visit the link below)

[link to www.youtube.com]

Glad I COULD clear it up :)
Suggest you go back to school Mr Dropout.
 Quoting: Starsandfunk 8422525


I've a sneaking suspicion that you did not read, or perhaps did not assimilate, the entirety of the post. Care to address any (you could just pick a single one) of my "pure rubbish" or my "outright lies", or are we going to wallow in baseless, ad hominem assertions?

There is, in fact, not a single written observation in my initial post that is not independently verifiable by reproducible experiments conducted by the referenced PhD's over the last 150 years. You need merely read the paper; most of my objectives, in fact, consist of the experiments and discoveries of previous PhD's pertaining to relativity and quantum mechanics producing supporting evidence for the Haramein Rauscher theory.

When you read the paper, if you have a leg to stand on in the given subject field, get back to me.
Cheers, PM

Last Edited by Piscesian Misesian on 06/06/2012 01:38 PM
Pursue Truth.

This hard, tangible thing we call reality: the chair you sit upon, the computer, your beverage, cigarette, the air around you, is composed of 99.99999...% Space. Contrary to popular belief, energy-mass does not define the Space, but rather is defined -by- the Space. The all-permeating Space is a vibrating, infinitely dense medium of geometric discretion; a cube octahedral vector equillibrium. This is the One existence, and the only thing that exists, simultaneously. There is nothing else.

We do not live in a "big bang" universe.
We do not live in a "created" reality.
Our reality is a perpetually -creating- model, and It is aware.
Space is aware.
I AM aware.
"God", some call it.
Starsandfunk
User ID: 8422525
United Kingdom
06/06/2012 01:34 PM
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Re: A Counter-refutation concerning quantum mechanics and Haramein/Rauscher's theory for Bob. We needn't have this conversation again, Bob.
Well, as you failed to read it the first time (even when you quoted it??) - here it is again - let's see if you can read it this time.


2./a. 'Misunderstanding Basic Physics'
In this section, the 'Alabama drop out poster' accused Bob (a real Physicist) of taking harafraud out of context and posts this message for Bob:

"Listen again to what you oh-so-slyly took out of context with a not-so-subtle misquotation: Nassim is clearly heard to say, "some of the first laws of physics". Glad I could clear it up."

Yet if you visit the video on youtube, you find that Bob is 100% correct because at the 03.00 mark, haramein, with a knowing smug look on his face slowly and CLEARLY SAYS:
"THE FIRST LAW OF PHYSICS" (visit the link below)

[link to www.youtube.com]

Glad I COULD clear it up :)
Suggest you go back to school Mr Dropout.
Piscesian Misesian (OP)

User ID: 6801819
United States
06/07/2012 03:45 AM
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Re: A Counter-refutation concerning quantum mechanics and Haramein/Rauscher's theory for Bob. We needn't have this conversation again, Bob.
bump
Pursue Truth.

This hard, tangible thing we call reality: the chair you sit upon, the computer, your beverage, cigarette, the air around you, is composed of 99.99999...% Space. Contrary to popular belief, energy-mass does not define the Space, but rather is defined -by- the Space. The all-permeating Space is a vibrating, infinitely dense medium of geometric discretion; a cube octahedral vector equillibrium. This is the One existence, and the only thing that exists, simultaneously. There is nothing else.

We do not live in a "big bang" universe.
We do not live in a "created" reality.
Our reality is a perpetually -creating- model, and It is aware.
Space is aware.
I AM aware.
"God", some call it.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1673157
Canada
06/07/2012 04:12 AM
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Re: A Counter-refutation concerning quantum mechanics and Haramein/Rauscher's theory for Bob. We needn't have this conversation again, Bob.
OP,
since you're so well versed in physics why not aid the OP of the thread at

Thread: Can anyone help me decipher what this "sign" says? I found this "Tomb" in the cemetary... It may have an important message for me!
SevenThunders

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06/07/2012 04:29 AM
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Re: A Counter-refutation concerning quantum mechanics and Haramein/Rauscher's theory for Bob. We needn't have this conversation again, Bob.
Glad my PhD is in electrical engineering and not in physics. You guys argue physics as though it was some point in theology and as though all heretics must be burned at the stake.

Sorry to burst your bubble but all you are working with are models, nothing more. None of you will ever even scratch the surface of the truth until the Lord returns.

There are actual disciplined ways to statistically determine parameters for low order models, but I suspect it would be nearly impossible to gather sufficient data to approach your problems this way.

It's especially troublesome if success means that you've proposed the best model as determined by the consensus of an un-elected group of elite physicists. ie your physics is determined by the consensus of ecclesiastical body. Might as well go back to the catholic church fathers to settle your quarrels.

Now if you can come up with a useful model I can use to make stuff, then please do. Moreover I don't care if your model involves the use of chicken entrails or plastic toy figurines as long as it works for it's defined scope. Otherwise stop the ad-hominem attacks. It's very petty, and brings dishonor to an otherwise very respectable field of science.
Anonymous Coward
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06/07/2012 04:56 AM
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Re: A Counter-refutation concerning quantum mechanics and Haramein/Rauscher's theory for Bob. We needn't have this conversation again, Bob.
Haramein is not worth reading, he is a liar and fraud and this paper has never been looked at by anyone and will never be peer-reviewed as it is BS.
Piscesian Misesian (OP)

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Re: A Counter-refutation concerning quantum mechanics and Haramein/Rauscher's theory for Bob. We needn't have this conversation again, Bob.
Glad my PhD is in electrical engineering and not in physics. You guys argue physics as though it was some point in theology and as though all heretics must be burned at the stake.

...

Now if you can come up with a useful model I can use to make stuff, then please do. Moreover I don't care if your model involves the use of chicken entrails or plastic toy figurines as long as it works for it's defined scope. Otherwise stop the ad-hominem attacks. It's very petty, and brings dishonor to an otherwise very respectable field of science.
 Quoting: SevenThunders


As for my tone in addressing Bob's original gem of insight, I regret being so sharp with Bob. I saw him attacking a physicist whom I have the utmost respect for, and responded in kind. I stooped to his level.
Perhaps as I get older, age will temper me.

If you've read and are able to comprehend the Schwarzschild Proton, you will see some rather profound implications, specifically applicable to gravitic energy sources and propulsion.
The technology that could be derived from the theory would essentially mean we would never have to combust a fossil fuel again, for any reason.

Zero emission, zero sound, highly stable, orders of magnitude more efficient, fast, and maneuverable vehicles.

I would argue that the model is useful.

Moreover, it is the standard model, which I so vehemently argue against, which "involves the use of chicken entrails [and] plastic toy figurines".

The standard model is missing over 98% of the mass required for our universe to behave as it observably does.
How does the SM patch this?
Mystical, magical, unobservable "dark matter" and "dark energy", which we cannot interact with in any way and which has no interaction with electricity or light.

Don't get me started on their model of a comet as a "dirty snowball".

Last Edited by Piscesian Misesian on 06/07/2012 04:22 PM
Pursue Truth.

This hard, tangible thing we call reality: the chair you sit upon, the computer, your beverage, cigarette, the air around you, is composed of 99.99999...% Space. Contrary to popular belief, energy-mass does not define the Space, but rather is defined -by- the Space. The all-permeating Space is a vibrating, infinitely dense medium of geometric discretion; a cube octahedral vector equillibrium. This is the One existence, and the only thing that exists, simultaneously. There is nothing else.

We do not live in a "big bang" universe.
We do not live in a "created" reality.
Our reality is a perpetually -creating- model, and It is aware.
Space is aware.
I AM aware.
"God", some call it.
Piscesian Misesian (OP)

User ID: 6801819
United States
06/07/2012 04:17 PM
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Re: A Counter-refutation concerning quantum mechanics and Haramein/Rauscher's theory for Bob. We needn't have this conversation again, Bob.
Haramein is not worth reading, he is a liar and fraud and this paper has never been looked at by anyone and will never be peer-reviewed as it is BS.
 Quoting: SheldonCooper


...Excellent, constructive contribution.

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
-Arthur Schopenhauer

Seen it before, seeing it now, will see it again.
You seem to be somewhere between stage 1 and 2.
Pursue Truth.

This hard, tangible thing we call reality: the chair you sit upon, the computer, your beverage, cigarette, the air around you, is composed of 99.99999...% Space. Contrary to popular belief, energy-mass does not define the Space, but rather is defined -by- the Space. The all-permeating Space is a vibrating, infinitely dense medium of geometric discretion; a cube octahedral vector equillibrium. This is the One existence, and the only thing that exists, simultaneously. There is nothing else.

We do not live in a "big bang" universe.
We do not live in a "created" reality.
Our reality is a perpetually -creating- model, and It is aware.
Space is aware.
I AM aware.
"God", some call it.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 17545742
United States
06/07/2012 04:26 PM
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Re: A Counter-refutation concerning quantum mechanics and Haramein/Rauscher's theory for Bob. We needn't have this conversation again, Bob.
Haramein is not worth reading, he is a liar and fraud and this paper has never been looked at by anyone and will never be peer-reviewed as it is BS.
 Quoting: SheldonCooper


...Excellent, constructive contribution.

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
-Arthur Schopenhauer

Seen it before, seeing it now, will see it again.
You seem to be somewhere between stage 1 and 2.
 Quoting: Piscesian Misesian


Funny you should bring up Hairyman

I figured out how he "won" his "best paper in class" as a computer technology symposium.

I have downloaded the review form for that organization and confirmed with the organization itself that anyone can write a review and submit it online.

Would you please list the link for the organization that awarded him "best physics paper"?

I will show you how to confirm that the award s worth absolutely nothing in the real world of science.

Thank you in advance.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 17545742
United States
06/07/2012 04:31 PM
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Re: A Counter-refutation concerning quantum mechanics and Haramein/Rauscher's theory for Bob. We needn't have this conversation again, Bob.
Why so quiet all of a sudden?

You didn't think people would figure it out?
Piscesian Misesian (OP)

User ID: 6801819
United States
06/07/2012 04:35 PM
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Re: A Counter-refutation concerning quantum mechanics and Haramein/Rauscher's theory for Bob. We needn't have this conversation again, Bob.
Haramein is not worth reading, he is a liar and fraud and this paper has never been looked at by anyone and will never be peer-reviewed as it is BS.
 Quoting: SheldonCooper


...Excellent, constructive contribution.

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
-Arthur Schopenhauer

Seen it before, seeing it now, will see it again.
You seem to be somewhere between stage 1 and 2.
 Quoting: Piscesian Misesian


Funny you should bring up Hairyman

I figured out how he "won" his "best paper in class" as a computer technology symposium.

I have downloaded the review form for that organization and confirmed with the organization itself that anyone can write a review and submit it online.

Would you please list the link for the organization that awarded him "best physics paper"?

I will show you how to confirm that the award s worth absolutely nothing in the real world of science.

Thank you in advance.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17545742


Thank you for your concern, AC.
I am not referring to the award he received for his initial draft of the Schwarschild Proton at CASYs 2009, an interdisciplinary conference.

You're correct in saying that the award is near inconsequential.

Rather, I am referring to Haramein's and Rauscher's final draft, which is currently in the process of being peer reviewed.

Despite the award's irrelevance, here you are:
[link to scitation.aip.org]
Pursue Truth.

This hard, tangible thing we call reality: the chair you sit upon, the computer, your beverage, cigarette, the air around you, is composed of 99.99999...% Space. Contrary to popular belief, energy-mass does not define the Space, but rather is defined -by- the Space. The all-permeating Space is a vibrating, infinitely dense medium of geometric discretion; a cube octahedral vector equillibrium. This is the One existence, and the only thing that exists, simultaneously. There is nothing else.

We do not live in a "big bang" universe.
We do not live in a "created" reality.
Our reality is a perpetually -creating- model, and It is aware.
Space is aware.
I AM aware.
"God", some call it.
Piscesian Misesian (OP)

User ID: 6801819
United States
06/07/2012 04:38 PM
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Re: A Counter-refutation concerning quantum mechanics and Haramein/Rauscher's theory for Bob. We needn't have this conversation again, Bob.
Why so quiet all of a sudden?

You didn't think people would figure it out?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17545742


My dearest hope, AC, is that everyone will figure it out.

Also, there is a time-stamp in the top left of every post contributed to this forum for your convenience.
Pursue Truth.

This hard, tangible thing we call reality: the chair you sit upon, the computer, your beverage, cigarette, the air around you, is composed of 99.99999...% Space. Contrary to popular belief, energy-mass does not define the Space, but rather is defined -by- the Space. The all-permeating Space is a vibrating, infinitely dense medium of geometric discretion; a cube octahedral vector equillibrium. This is the One existence, and the only thing that exists, simultaneously. There is nothing else.

We do not live in a "big bang" universe.
We do not live in a "created" reality.
Our reality is a perpetually -creating- model, and It is aware.
Space is aware.
I AM aware.
"God", some call it.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 17545742
United States
06/07/2012 04:45 PM
Report Abusive Post
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Re: A Counter-refutation concerning quantum mechanics and Haramein/Rauscher's theory for Bob. We needn't have this conversation again, Bob.
Haramein is not worth reading, he is a liar and fraud and this paper has never been looked at by anyone and will never be peer-reviewed as it is BS.
 Quoting: SheldonCooper


...Excellent, constructive contribution.

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
-Arthur Schopenhauer

Seen it before, seeing it now, will see it again.
You seem to be somewhere between stage 1 and 2.
 Quoting: Piscesian Misesian


Funny you should bring up Hairyman

I figured out how he "won" his "best paper in class" as a computer technology symposium.

I have downloaded the review form for that organization and confirmed with the organization itself that anyone can write a review and submit it online.

Would you please list the link for the organization that awarded him "best physics paper"?

I will show you how to confirm that the award s worth absolutely nothing in the real world of science.

Thank you in advance.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17545742


Thank you for your concern, AC.
I am not referring to the award he received for his initial draft of the Schwarschild Proton at CASYs 2009, an interdisciplinary conference.

You're correct in saying that the award is near inconsequential.

Rather, I am referring to Haramein's and Rauscher's final draft, which is currently in the process of being peer reviewed.

Despite the award's irrelevance, here you are:
[link to scitation.aip.org]
 Quoting: Piscesian Misesian


No you see it is now quite consequential as Hairyman and his goofy goons made a big deal out of the winning of the paper.

You now concede that he and his group voted him the award and this is not consequential?

I am sorry but that is his scientific death knell as science does NOT suffer fraud at all.

How about a list of "peers" that is "currently reviewing" his "final draft" as you have stated?

You supporters of half baked fraudsters are a funny lot.

And I look forward to any threats of defamation for I have done all the homework.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 17551507
United States
06/07/2012 05:47 PM
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Re: A Counter-refutation concerning quantum mechanics and Haramein/Rauscher's theory for Bob. We needn't have this conversation again, Bob.
I hope the thread isn't overly intimidating in its format; certainly not it's content. Thanks fer the 5*'s, ya'll!


I do very much hope there are other young physics-inclined individuals on GLP...Perhaps the female sort.
 Quoting: Piscesian Misesian


It's not intimidating.

It's devoid of math.

Show your work.
Starsandfunk
User ID: 8422525
United Kingdom
06/08/2012 01:29 AM
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Re: A Counter-refutation concerning quantum mechanics and Haramein/Rauscher's theory for Bob. We needn't have this conversation again, Bob.
I see you are still failing to address the fact that I proved you lied in section 2./a of your post. You are behaving like a corrupt politician trying to avoid the question.You said:

2./a. 'Misunderstanding Basic Physics'
In this section, the 'Alabama drop out poster' accused Bob (a real Physicist) of taking harafraud out of context and posts this message for Bob:

"Listen again to what you oh-so-slyly took out of context with a not-so-subtle misquotation: Nassim is clearly heard to say, "some of the first laws of physics". Glad I could clear it up."

My response is: Yet if you visit the video on youtube, you find that Bob is 100% correct because at the 03.00 mark, haramein, with a knowing smug look on his face slowly and CLEARLY SAYS:
"THE FIRST LAW OF PHYSICS" (visit the link below)

[link to www.youtube.com]

And when you visit the link you will find I have pointed this out on youtube - it is the top comment.

As you say, these posst are time stamped, so every time to fail to address my point, there's a record of it :)
Starsandfunk
User ID: 8422525
United Kingdom
06/08/2012 01:33 AM
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Re: A Counter-refutation concerning quantum mechanics and Haramein/Rauscher's theory for Bob. We needn't have this conversation again, Bob.
Haramein is not worth reading, he is a liar and fraud and this paper has never been looked at by anyone and will never be peer-reviewed as it is BS.
 Quoting: SheldonCooper


...Excellent, constructive contribution.

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
-Arthur Schopenhauer

Seen it before, seeing it now, will see it again.
You seem to be somewhere between stage 1 and 2.
 Quoting: Piscesian Misesian


And all lies pass through stage 1 too. And remember, haramein is proven to be a liar and fraud. I rest my case.