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Why Go to Church?

 
Ozicell

User ID: 18112737
Australia
06/17/2012 11:46 PM

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Re: Why Go to Church?
...


By the will of man - not God! Grace is Unconditional Love - it requires no payment, rather it desires that you accept its Loving embrace!
 Quoting: Ozicell


oops2
Erm, sacrifice is a payment for peoples sin, not a payment for God's Love, right? God's Love payed for out sin through Jesus, so that's what we accept. Maybe we are talking about different things. =P
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17832139


God requires NO payment for sin.

Think of a baby learning to walk. They fall continually until they get it right and in the process the parents continually help them until they get it right. After they have finally mastered it, they don't need the parents assistance for walking any more, however, they need their parents assistance in many other challenges they face while growing up.

The only thing the the Father requires of us in exchange for sin is that we accept His help and His Loving embrace and that we never give up trying to overcome!
 Quoting: Ozicell


So then.....
1 John 1:7-9 "But if we are living in the light, as God is in the light, then we have fellowship with each other, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, cleanses us from all sin. If we claim we have no sin, we are only fooling ourselves and not living in the truth. But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness."
...if sin requires no payment, doesn't that mean that 1) God is not a God of justice, and 2) Jesus did not need to die on the cross, since our sin requires no payment. I don't see how that works. =P
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17832139


First clarify your definition of sin for me, please try not to use bible passages but if you must - then it's ok.

Please note that I am asking for YOUR definition - not someone else's. Having said that, I am aware that our personal opinions and definitions can be shaped by the opinions of others but not necessarily always.

I have been in Christian ministry for over 35 years and I have heard many opinions on the subject and IMHO only very few are close to being correct. But then again, I AM speaking of MHO!
That which is - has already been, And what is to be - has already been. Quote: King Solomon.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1190661
Australia
06/18/2012 12:53 AM
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Re: Why Go to Church?
...


oops2
Erm, sacrifice is a payment for peoples sin, not a payment for God's Love, right? God's Love payed for out sin through Jesus, so that's what we accept. Maybe we are talking about different things. =P
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17832139


God requires NO payment for sin.

Think of a baby learning to walk. They fall continually until they get it right and in the process the parents continually help them until they get it right. After they have finally mastered it, they don't need the parents assistance for walking any more, however, they need their parents assistance in many other challenges they face while growing up.

The only thing the the Father requires of us in exchange for sin is that we accept His help and His Loving embrace and that we never give up trying to overcome!
 Quoting: Ozicell


So then.....
1 John 1:7-9 "But if we are living in the light, as God is in the light, then we have fellowship with each other, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, cleanses us from all sin. If we claim we have no sin, we are only fooling ourselves and not living in the truth. But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness."
...if sin requires no payment, doesn't that mean that 1) God is not a God of justice, and 2) Jesus did not need to die on the cross, since our sin requires no payment. I don't see how that works. =P
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17832139


First clarify your definition of sin for me, please try not to use bible passages but if you must - then it's ok.

Please note that I am asking for YOUR definition - not someone else's. Having said that, I am aware that our personal opinions and definitions can be shaped by the opinions of others but not necessarily always.

I have been in Christian ministry for over 35 years and I have heard many opinions on the subject and IMHO only very few are close to being correct. But then again, I AM speaking of MHO!
 Quoting: Ozicell


So you have been in Christian ministry for over 35 years. But do you tell the truth in that ministry?

Do you preach more what man said or do you preach actually what Jesus said?

How do you explain the massive dicrepancies in the various teachings?

Do you truly teach what the Bible says or the usual mumbo jumba that is factually wrong?

What do you say to my posts on Biblical matters?

If Jesus said it is it true? Is the Bible inerrant and infallible?
Illuminatvs Primvs

User ID: 10848557
United States
06/18/2012 01:22 AM
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Re: Why Go to Church?
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God requires NO payment for sin.

Think of a baby learning to walk. They fall continually until they get it right and in the process the parents continually help them until they get it right. After they have finally mastered it, they don't need the parents assistance for walking any more, however, they need their parents assistance in many other challenges they face while growing up.

The only thing the the Father requires of us in exchange for sin is that we accept His help and His Loving embrace and that we never give up trying to overcome!
 Quoting: Ozicell


So then.....
1 John 1:7-9 "But if we are living in the light, as God is in the light, then we have fellowship with each other, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, cleanses us from all sin. If we claim we have no sin, we are only fooling ourselves and not living in the truth. But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness."
...if sin requires no payment, doesn't that mean that 1) God is not a God of justice, and 2) Jesus did not need to die on the cross, since our sin requires no payment. I don't see how that works. =P
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17832139


First clarify your definition of sin for me, please try not to use bible passages but if you must - then it's ok.

Please note that I am asking for YOUR definition - not someone else's. Having said that, I am aware that our personal opinions and definitions can be shaped by the opinions of others but not necessarily always.

I have been in Christian ministry for over 35 years and I have heard many opinions on the subject and IMHO only very few are close to being correct. But then again, I AM speaking of MHO!
 Quoting: Ozicell


So you have been in Christian ministry for over 35 years. But do you tell the truth in that ministry?

Do you preach more what man said or do you preach actually what Jesus said?

How do you explain the massive dicrepancies in the various teachings?

Do you truly teach what the Bible says or the usual mumbo jumba that is factually wrong?

What do you say to my posts on Biblical matters?

If Jesus said it is it true? Is the Bible inerrant and infallible?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1190661


Infallabilities do not exist.
"13013"
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 17832139
United States
06/18/2012 01:28 AM
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Re: Why Go to Church?
...


oops2
Erm, sacrifice is a payment for peoples sin, not a payment for God's Love, right? God's Love payed for out sin through Jesus, so that's what we accept. Maybe we are talking about different things. =P
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17832139


God requires NO payment for sin.

Think of a baby learning to walk. They fall continually until they get it right and in the process the parents continually help them until they get it right. After they have finally mastered it, they don't need the parents assistance for walking any more, however, they need their parents assistance in many other challenges they face while growing up.

The only thing the the Father requires of us in exchange for sin is that we accept His help and His Loving embrace and that we never give up trying to overcome!
 Quoting: Ozicell


So then.....
1 John 1:7-9 "But if we are living in the light, as God is in the light, then we have fellowship with each other, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, cleanses us from all sin. If we claim we have no sin, we are only fooling ourselves and not living in the truth. But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness."
...if sin requires no payment, doesn't that mean that 1) God is not a God of justice, and 2) Jesus did not need to die on the cross, since our sin requires no payment. I don't see how that works. =P
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17832139


First clarify your definition of sin for me, please try not to use bible passages but if you must - then it's ok.

Please note that I am asking for YOUR definition - not someone else's. Having said that, I am aware that our personal opinions and definitions can be shaped by the opinions of others but not necessarily always.

I have been in Christian ministry for over 35 years and I have heard many opinions on the subject and IMHO only very few are close to being correct. But then again, I AM speaking of MHO!
 Quoting: Ozicell

Wells, I think I would call sin any action (and maybe even thought) that you either know is wrong, hurts someone, or is against God's law. So basically when you cross the boundaries that God has set in place. (I know this is based off of Bible verses, but if sin is breaking a moral law, I have to have a moral code to break, mine happens to be from the Bible, so yeah...)

When Adam and Eve sinned (broke the boundary that God set in place), well, shit happened.

^ my $0.02.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 3810573
United States
06/18/2012 01:57 AM
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Re: Why Go to Church?
Thus says The Lord: My sons, I speak now in your hearing, for in you I am well pleased. For you have sought to understand My judgments and seek to accept My punishments, though you are in no way able to touch the heart of The Lord, in that you could endure My sorrow; nor are you yet able to accept the full degree of My punishment.




For My anger is kindled and has become a raging fire!... All-consuming!...

An all-encompassing, purging fire,
Wiping away all evil and sin from off the land!




You have sought to understand “a life for a life”, and behold you do indeed see dimly, even with frustrated eyes. Thus I shall tell you plainly: From the beginning the decree went forth and was upheld, that a life which is taken shall be repaid by the death of the guilty, and it was so.

Yet in the days of Moses this was not done by the judgment of man, but according to the judgement of God, for in those days My voice yet remained with My people.
Behold, all who have sinned since that time have taken their own lives, and thus a life must be given. For the penalty of sin is death, and without the shedding of blood there can be no remission. Thus I came down in the flesh, and offered up My life in place of the guilty, bearing the full weight of their transgression in My own body... A Life for a life. Yet understand this also: To receive of My life, one must also accept My life through sincere repentance; and if one refuses The Gift, then the same remains under My punishment, which is death.

Thus I tell you plainly, and though your hearts shall sink within your chests and tears shall come, it must be, for the sin of abortion is very grievous: For every fifty million babies slain at the hands of men, I shall take the life of one billion of those who dwell upon the earth, who were in agreement! For they will not repent! Behold, even I shall bring calamity upon the millions who stood idly by! I AM THE LORD.




In this one thing is the justice of God revealed:
Vengeance is Mine, I shall repay...

For punishment of the wicked rests solely upon My shoulders,
In which I take no pleasure at all...

Even as salvation rested solely upon The Son of Man,
In which I was well pleased...


Therefore, He shall be your judge,
Even as He is also your Savior, says The Lord.




Therefore My sons, stumble not over the letter of My words, nor seek to understand by calculation, but see with greater eyes, see with your heart; understand the magnitude, stare not at the letter... Look upon My speech through tears, grasp the power of My words in sorrow, look upon My face as I stretch out My hand in My strength; taste My tears as I bring death upon them, look into My eyes as I destroy the cities of men... My sons, are you able to drink from this cup? Can you endure My pain? Will your life not pass from you, under the full weight of this revelation?




Behold, man is but stubble before the blade,
Grass under the shadow of burning trees in a deep forest of sin,
Sand at the bottom of a dark ocean of transgression...

Yet I am mindful of him...

My heart knows each one.




Thus those whom I send must be remade, they must be transformed, they must eat from The Tree of Life, partaking also from the tree of knowledge. They must become as adamant stones, with their hearts refashioned, new hearts which beat in sync with Mine... Or how shall I send them? Says The Lord.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 18094233
United States
06/18/2012 02:40 AM
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Re: Why Go to Church?
When the preachers know NOTHING more about GOD than you do...


Have they met him?
Do they know ANYTHING more about him than you do?

YOU have a bible just like them.....

Does GOD like them better and relay messages to them?
NOPE.

They are imperfect people same as you.

The pope himself knows NOTHING more about GOD than you do right now.

Why go listen to someone TELL you what to believe?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14770674



not only that but the pope doesn't CARE to know Him

He will however be granted a first person audience when he least expects it

and on the first day of the Millinneum he'll be on both knees right along with the rest

oh what a sight it will be...

well worth suffering all nine levels of hell ie Dantes Inferno in the interim

to have a ring side seat to such

; )

ahhh you just can't conjure up any form of fiction anywhere near as brilliant as the truth that's about to unfold
RaXz

User ID: 2557891
Netherlands
06/18/2012 01:31 PM
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Re: Why Go to Church?
What are pastors the only ones who God speaks to? I don't think so. Anyone who has a personal relationhip with God can do the same....churches are hypocritical anymore these days.
 Quoting: wildbutterfly2112


Nah, most to children, who is less hears more, adults are usually so full of shit that they start to fling it at each other, and then wonder why the earth starts to get brown.
Take it or leave it, in either way you'll have to deal with it.

“When life gets you down, improvise as if crawling was part of the choreography.” -Iveta Cherneva
SuperWoman

User ID: 17851921
United States
06/18/2012 01:38 PM
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Re: Why Go to Church?
They're all false now. The churches are false. The pastors are false. The elders are false. The people sitting in the pews are false. The singers are false. The organ player is false.

Why go to church? No, reason here to go, I don't go.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 7655682
United States
06/18/2012 01:47 PM
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Re: Why Go to Church?
Almost all churches are part of the Devils Messiah
the 501c3 church with their hands tied behind their back.
GOOGLE Devils Messiah a tool of the NWO
SuperWoman

User ID: 17851921
United States
06/18/2012 01:54 PM
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Re: Why Go to Church?
Almost all churches are part of the Devils Messiah
the 501c3 church with their hands tied behind their back.
GOOGLE Devils Messiah a tool of the NWO
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7655682


Not almost all, all
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 7655682
United States
06/18/2012 02:00 PM
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Re: Why Go to Church?
95% guaranteed go to www.hushmoney.org
SuperWoman

User ID: 17851921
United States
06/18/2012 02:03 PM
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Re: Why Go to Church?
And the New Order Order isn't a conspiracy either!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1791814
United States
06/18/2012 03:17 PM
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Re: Why Go to Church?
so jereboam set up his own priests,

his own feasts ( not the Lords priests or feasts )

and not one but 2 golden calves...

and so it was.

1Kings12

but those who obey him, teh Lord have the holy spirit. Acts 5; 31-32

since god loves obedience it must be removed first...
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 14770674
United States
06/18/2012 03:20 PM
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Re: Why Go to Church?
millions of people= millions of different ideas.


Who is right?

Who is wrong?

Who does not care?


I speak to God.
Perhaps one day soon....he will speak back.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 6199901
United Kingdom
06/18/2012 03:50 PM
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Re: Why Go to Church?
"It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man" - Psalm 188:8 KJV

Pray at home is good.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 3393413
United States
06/19/2012 05:48 PM
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Re: Why Go to Church?
millions of people= millions of different ideas.


Who is right?

Who is wrong?

Who does not care?


I speak to God.
Perhaps one day soon....he will speak back.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14770674


If you continue inmy word - read teh bible -
then
you will be my deciple indeed and you shall know

then you shall know the truth

and the truth shall set you free.

john 8: 31-32
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 18251022
United States
06/19/2012 09:39 PM
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Re: Why Go to Church?
bump
bendinglight

User ID: 2143478
United States
06/20/2012 12:29 AM

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Re: Why Go to Church?
millions of people= millions of different ideas.


Who is right?

Who is wrong?

Who does not care?


I speak to God.
Perhaps one day soon....he will speak back.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14770674


If you continue inmy word - read teh bible -
then
you will be my deciple indeed and you shall know

then you shall know the truth

and the truth shall set you free.

john 8: 31-32
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3393413


The "truth" is that the Bible is a fiction story written by MAN not God!

sheeplechristian
dåisy
User ID: 3728963
United States
06/20/2012 12:37 AM
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Re: Why Go to Church?
I don't trust church people...

Imagine my confusion when the baptist preacher grabbed me...


No thanks... if i am going to get hit on, i'd prefer a non hypocrite.
RaXz

User ID: 2557891
Netherlands
06/20/2012 02:27 AM
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Re: Why Go to Church?
millions of people= millions of different ideas.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14770674


Winter will first have to come before the leaves reveal the trunk.
Take it or leave it, in either way you'll have to deal with it.

“When life gets you down, improvise as if crawling was part of the choreography.” -Iveta Cherneva
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 18351680
United States
06/22/2012 01:00 AM
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Re: Why Go to Church?
bump
Renaissance Woman

User ID: 10737781
United States
10/09/2012 07:03 AM

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Re: Why Go to Church?
They're all false now. The churches are false. The pastors are false. The elders are false. The people sitting in the pews are false. The singers are false. The organ player is false.

Why go to church? No, reason here to go, I don't go.
 Quoting: SuperWoman


I just got smacked upside the head by this in the past week. By everyone you have listed here. Whatever you do, do not point out their falsehoods. You may get a nasty letter telling you that you are divisive and malicious. (Those were the only words they were willing to put to put in writing. They called me the wedge of Satan to my face a number of times, but still deny they ever said it.)

I'm staying away now. I hear God's voice and feel his love when I pray privately at home. I guess Jesus was right -- pray in private.
"For with thee is the fountain of life: in thy light shall we see light."

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