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Fixing our infrastructure...

 
Damrod
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User ID: 11544146
United States
06/14/2012 05:06 PM

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Fixing our infrastructure...
I am cutting and pasting my post from another topic to open this conversation so bear with me a little...

"Well...this is a pickle isn't it? Both political parties suck and that is all there is to it.

However, the spending we are doing abroad must stop. There are things WE NEED to do in this country to keep our living standard and commerce moving forward and as long as we're dropping billions to buy friends overseas...it's not getting done.

I work in construction engineering...have for 28 years. We really need to fix our bridges and roads before we start seeing bad-bad things happening. (Do you want to get a phone call one day that your wife and kids are gone cause a bridge collapsed on their way to the mall? It can happen...)

This isn't fear mongering mind you. I can go in any direction from my house and within 15 to 20 minutes I can take you under almost any bridge and show you where the metal is just falling apart from neglect. What have we been doing about it?...Nothing...well, we downgrade it's carrying capacity instead of fixing it. How long do you think you can do that until the big trucks are suddenly trapped and have to go miles and miles around to find a bridge that can carry them?

This needs to be done for the sake of moving products efficiently and for safety...not only that, It is a win-win on several different levels.

Fixing bridges hires construction workers.

Fixing bridges requires steel and concrete...so both of those industries pick up workers. (Mills and concrete plants)

With these workers back on the job, people will start buying products...general manufacturing improves.

Retail sales improves.

People start eating out more often....restaurants do better.

People start going on vacations again...tourism, national parks and resorts do better.

I know some people say fixing the bridges is bad...but it needs to be done. I am not saying it's to fix the economy, I'm saying it needs to be done for safety and practical commerce of moving a product efficiently from point A to point B. If a trucker has to go 100 miles around because the nearest bridges are downgraded below his weight...your products are going to start costing more.

Go out and take a look at your nearest bridge...no...get out of your car and walk all around it. See if the concrete is falling apart and the reinforcing is exposed. See how many holes pass completely through the road deck. See how many rusted layers of steel you can pull off with with your bare hands...then tell me we don't need to address this looming problem seriously.


I am a Libertarian by the way but when something needs to be done, it needs to be done (or fixed). It's not the place of Corporations to fix bridges and roads...that is why we pay taxes, that is why we have a Gov to begin with. I am not talking about a "socialist" system here...I am talking about the very reasons we pay taxes and have a Gov...to take care of interstate roads and bridges...as well as provide "border" defense."

Screw the rest of the world...time to start spending my and your tax dollars right here...tell the military industrial contractors to get a "general contractors" license and start fixing things here at home...that way they don't have to get off the tax revenue tit...everyone is happy.

Just my opinion...I'd like to hear what others think about this issue we will soon have to deal with.

Last Edited by Damrod on 06/14/2012 05:07 PM
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." Thomas Jefferson

"Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it." George Bernard Shaw
lightchild_uk

User ID: 17306684
United Kingdom
06/14/2012 05:14 PM
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Re: Fixing our infrastructure...
This is one of the reasons I believe serious doom will happen.

In the UK the bridges are been patched up, but there is no investment of government money in infrastructure projects.

We are in desperately need of new roads and widening projects.
All that is been done is they are starting to use the hard shoulder / emergency lane for traffic at peak times.

We have water shortages but leaks aren't been fixed.

There has been no significant investment in years, even new schools are privately funded.
Damrod (OP)

User ID: 11544146
United States
06/14/2012 05:25 PM

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Re: Fixing our infrastructure...
This is one of the reasons I believe serious doom will happen.

In the UK the bridges are been patched up, but there is no investment of government money in infrastructure projects.

We are in desperately need of new roads and widening projects.
All that is been done is they are starting to use the hard shoulder / emergency lane for traffic at peak times.

We have water shortages but leaks aren't been fixed.

There has been no significant investment in years, even new schools are privately funded.
 Quoting: lightchild_uk


Good point! I didn't even get into the water issues that we will soon be facing as well. I recommend to anyone to check out a show called "the crumbling of America". It points out some of the issues dealing with infrastructure...downgraded and collapsing bridges, weak and leaky water mains and canals, etc.

It's a real shame that we can give a country that hates us a couple billion dollars (Pakistan) but we can't keep our bridges standing or our water clean...

I said my peace on that issue...tell these third world moochers to suck it...we have work at home to do...see you in a decade or so...if you're still around.
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." Thomas Jefferson

"Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it." George Bernard Shaw
Damrod (OP)

User ID: 11544146
United States
06/15/2012 10:39 AM

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Re: Fixing our infrastructure...
bump

Hoping to get some conversation here
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." Thomas Jefferson

"Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it." George Bernard Shaw
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 16999669
United States
06/15/2012 10:43 AM
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Re: Fixing our infrastructure...
Not gonna happen.

Government is too busy feeding non-whites.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 17859571
United States
06/15/2012 10:46 AM
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Re: Fixing our infrastructure...
I am cutting and pasting my post from another topic to open this conversation so bear with me a little...

"Well...this is a pickle isn't it? Both political parties suck and that is all there is to it.

However, the spending we are doing abroad must stop. There are things WE NEED to do in this country to keep our living standard and commerce moving forward and as long as we're dropping billions to buy friends overseas...it's not getting done.

I work in construction engineering...have for 28 years. We really need to fix our bridges and roads before we start seeing bad-bad things happening. (Do you want to get a phone call one day that your wife and kids are gone cause a bridge collapsed on their way to the mall? It can happen...)

This isn't fear mongering mind you. I can go in any direction from my house and within 15 to 20 minutes I can take you under almost any bridge and show you where the metal is just falling apart from neglect. What have we been doing about it?...Nothing...well, we downgrade it's carrying capacity instead of fixing it. How long do you think you can do that until the big trucks are suddenly trapped and have to go miles and miles around to find a bridge that can carry them?

This needs to be done for the sake of moving products efficiently and for safety...not only that, It is a win-win on several different levels.

Fixing bridges hires construction workers.

Fixing bridges requires steel and concrete...so both of those industries pick up workers. (Mills and concrete plants)

With these workers back on the job, people will start buying products...general manufacturing improves.

Retail sales improves.

People start eating out more often....restaurants do better.

People start going on vacations again...tourism, national parks and resorts do better.

I know some people say fixing the bridges is bad...but it needs to be done. I am not saying it's to fix the economy, I'm saying it needs to be done for safety and practical commerce of moving a product efficiently from point A to point B. If a trucker has to go 100 miles around because the nearest bridges are downgraded below his weight...your products are going to start costing more.

Go out and take a look at your nearest bridge...no...get out of your car and walk all around it. See if the concrete is falling apart and the reinforcing is exposed. See how many holes pass completely through the road deck. See how many rusted layers of steel you can pull off with with your bare hands...then tell me we don't need to address this looming problem seriously.


I am a Libertarian by the way but when something needs to be done, it needs to be done (or fixed). It's not the place of Corporations to fix bridges and roads...that is why we pay taxes, that is why we have a Gov to begin with. I am not talking about a "socialist" system here...I am talking about the very reasons we pay taxes and have a Gov...to take care of interstate roads and bridges...as well as provide "border" defense."

Screw the rest of the world...time to start spending my and your tax dollars right here...tell the military industrial contractors to get a "general contractors" license and start fixing things here at home...that way they don't have to get off the tax revenue tit...everyone is happy.

Just my opinion...I'd like to hear what others think about this issue we will soon have to deal with.
 Quoting: Damrod


Only problem is the steel and even likely the contractor will be Chinese.

We have pretty much zero steel production capability left in the US
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 14232046
United States
06/15/2012 10:48 AM
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Re: Fixing our infrastructure...
...it would seem that this lack of concern may be purposeful...why fix infrastructure? why do they spend like there's no tomorrow? maybe there isn't....for us. It is a strange conundrum for me - I enjoy reading news updates and the thoughts of others like me here, but it's also a little depressing in that I am confronted with a mountain of horse shit and have but a teaspoon to move it with....
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 17964700
United States
06/15/2012 11:05 AM
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Re: Fixing our infrastructure...
The constant fixing, replacing and needing new stuff, useless stuff at that, is what lead to an economy of sabotaged goods with laws to keep them there.


I say everyone needs a monster truck and a dirtbike and then we wouldn't need them fucking roads.
Damrod (OP)

User ID: 11544146
United States
06/15/2012 12:10 PM

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Re: Fixing our infrastructure...
Only problem is the steel and even likely the contractor will be Chinese.

We have pretty much zero steel production capability left in the US
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17859571


We do still have a couple, Nucor, Bethlehem, USS...etc. IF we put them to use, they can hang on and maybe prosper again...big if though.

As far as Chinese contractors, that can be remedied as well. If our government military contractors decide to jump over to "General contracting", they would still be on the government tax revenue tit so they won't let foreign interests in.
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." Thomas Jefferson

"Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it." George Bernard Shaw
Damrod (OP)

User ID: 11544146
United States
06/15/2012 12:14 PM

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Re: Fixing our infrastructure...
...it would seem that this lack of concern may be purposeful...why fix infrastructure? why do they spend like there's no tomorrow? maybe there isn't....for us. It is a strange conundrum for me - I enjoy reading news updates and the thoughts of others like me here, but it's also a little depressing in that I am confronted with a mountain of horse shit and have but a teaspoon to move it with....
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14232046


I have thought this as well, but haven't came up with a reasonable idea as to why they would let it all fall apart and spend like maniacs in foreign countries. UNLESS, they plan on pressing Agenda 21 to the max, corral all the people into small areas and have limited interstate systems that they can closely monitor and regulate. This may be the reason, but as for now, the big super corporations still need to move products and a decaying infrastructure complicates that if it is allowed to go too far. As I said, when a trucker has to go miles around because a bridge will not support his load, that affects efficiency and prices of products.
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." Thomas Jefferson

"Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it." George Bernard Shaw
Damrod (OP)

User ID: 11544146
United States
06/15/2012 12:17 PM

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Re: Fixing our infrastructure...
The constant fixing, replacing and needing new stuff, useless stuff at that, is what lead to an economy of sabotaged goods with laws to keep them there.


I say everyone needs a monster truck and a dirtbike and then we wouldn't need them fucking roads.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17964700



Monster trucks and dirt bikes might not be a bad idea!

However, I do see the need for fixing and updating our roads, bridges, water and sewage systems. "IF" we really do want to get back on the path of progress, we need a system of moving products that is more efficient and reliable.

And while we are at it, the power grid is in horrible shape as well...and this SHOULD be the problem of the corporations to fix it. They solely make profit on using it to deliver the product they profit from...so...it goes to say that they should be the ones responsible for keeping it up to meet demands...

Prob won't happen though...the "shareholders" would end up getting a smaller dividend if the corporations actually "invested" for the long term profitability and reliability of the system. Greed...that's why we are falling apart.
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." Thomas Jefferson

"Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it." George Bernard Shaw
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 17895690
United States
06/15/2012 12:26 PM
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Re: Fixing our infrastructure...
roads and bridges ... water-mains ... then, throw in the nuke reactors that have outlived their lifespans and get re-certified
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 17844779
United States
06/15/2012 12:30 PM
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Re: Fixing our infrastructure...
I am cutting and pasting my post from another topic to open this conversation so bear with me a little...

"Well...this is a pickle isn't it? Both political parties suck and that is all there is to it.

However, the spending we are doing abroad must stop. There are things WE NEED to do in this country to keep our living standard and commerce moving forward and as long as we're dropping billions to buy friends overseas...it's not getting done.

I work in construction engineering...have for 28 years. We really need to fix our bridges and roads before we start seeing bad-bad things happening. (Do you want to get a phone call one day that your wife and kids are gone cause a bridge collapsed on their way to the mall? It can happen...)

This isn't fear mongering mind you. I can go in any direction from my house and within 15 to 20 minutes I can take you under almost any bridge and show you where the metal is just falling apart from neglect. What have we been doing about it?...Nothing...well, we downgrade it's carrying capacity instead of fixing it. How long do you think you can do that until the big trucks are suddenly trapped and have to go miles and miles around to find a bridge that can carry them?

This needs to be done for the sake of moving products efficiently and for safety...not only that, It is a win-win on several different levels.

Fixing bridges hires construction workers.

Fixing bridges requires steel and concrete...so both of those industries pick up workers. (Mills and concrete plants)

With these workers back on the job, people will start buying products...general manufacturing improves.

Retail sales improves.

People start eating out more often....restaurants do better.

People start going on vacations again...tourism, national parks and resorts do better.

I know some people say fixing the bridges is bad...but it needs to be done. I am not saying it's to fix the economy, I'm saying it needs to be done for safety and practical commerce of moving a product efficiently from point A to point B. If a trucker has to go 100 miles around because the nearest bridges are downgraded below his weight...your products are going to start costing more.

Go out and take a look at your nearest bridge...no...get out of your car and walk all around it. See if the concrete is falling apart and the reinforcing is exposed. See how many holes pass completely through the road deck. See how many rusted layers of steel you can pull off with with your bare hands...then tell me we don't need to address this looming problem seriously.


I am a Libertarian by the way but when something needs to be done, it needs to be done (or fixed). It's not the place of Corporations to fix bridges and roads...that is why we pay taxes, that is why we have a Gov to begin with. I am not talking about a "socialist" system here...I am talking about the very reasons we pay taxes and have a Gov...to take care of interstate roads and bridges...as well as provide "border" defense."

Screw the rest of the world...time to start spending my and your tax dollars right here...tell the military industrial contractors to get a "general contractors" license and start fixing things here at home...that way they don't have to get off the tax revenue tit...everyone is happy.

Just my opinion...I'd like to hear what others think about this issue we will soon have to deal with.
 Quoting: Damrod




No offense,

but i dont think fixing the roads will help...
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 17859571
United States
06/15/2012 12:33 PM
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Re: Fixing our infrastructure...
Only problem is the steel and even likely the contractor will be Chinese.

We have pretty much zero steel production capability left in the US
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17859571


We do still have a couple, Nucor, Bethlehem, USS...etc. IF we put them to use, they can hang on and maybe prosper again...big if though.

As far as Chinese contractors, that can be remedied as well. If our government military contractors decide to jump over to "General contracting", they would still be on the government tax revenue tit so they won't let foreign interests in.
 Quoting: Damrod


Better check what is actually left for steel production.

You will be quite surprised by what you find.


Bethlehem Steel?

LOL LONNNNNNNNGGGGGGG gone

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

The problem in general with steel these days is no one is actually producing great products as the old import dumping of steel drove the quality to shit and it has stayed there.

You could very well be installing new steel that would not last as long as what was there with the identical maintenance.

The entire world has turned to no maintenance because it costs money and benefits to people.
Damrod (OP)

User ID: 11544146
United States
06/15/2012 12:39 PM

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Re: Fixing our infrastructure...
Only problem is the steel and even likely the contractor will be Chinese.

We have pretty much zero steel production capability left in the US
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17859571


We do still have a couple, Nucor, Bethlehem, USS...etc. IF we put them to use, they can hang on and maybe prosper again...big if though.

As far as Chinese contractors, that can be remedied as well. If our government military contractors decide to jump over to "General contracting", they would still be on the government tax revenue tit so they won't let foreign interests in.
 Quoting: Damrod


Better check what is actually left for steel production.

You will be quite surprised by what you find.


Bethlehem Steel?

LOL LONNNNNNNNGGGGGGG gone

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

The problem in general with steel these days is no one is actually producing great products as the old import dumping of steel drove the quality to shit and it has stayed there.

You could very well be installing new steel that would not last as long as what was there with the identical maintenance.

The entire world has turned to no maintenance because it costs money and benefits to people.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17859571


Actually, you are correct...bethlehem is gone...Don't know why I listed them! Nucor and their sister "Nucor-Yamato" are really the only ones left making a wide size variety of beams...and they only produce so many per rolling then they switch dies and roll out a different batch of sizes. If you happen to need one that is sold out...you have to wait till the next scheduled rolling...and that can be months sometimes.

I'm gonna hold on to hope. I see this as a needed thing that is everyone's best interest...that is, unless your "best interest" lies in the USA completely falling apart and rotting from the inside out. This may be the plan after all.
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." Thomas Jefferson

"Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it." George Bernard Shaw

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