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If Paul teaches that we "wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities" then who did Jacob wrestle?

 
BZB
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If Paul teaches that we "wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities" then who did Jacob wrestle?
The book of Genesis states that "Jacob... wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day." Was this man a principality and was he a fleshly man or incorporial man?

Last Edited by BZB on 07/01/2012 06:48 PM
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Re: If Paul teaches that we "wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities" then who did Jacob wrestle?
Actually occurred; but the lesson was metaphorical.
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Re: If Paul teaches that we "wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities" then who did Jacob wrestle?
didn't you know? Jacob wrestled hulk hogan..and got arse whipped
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Re: If Paul teaches that we "wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities" then who did Jacob wrestle?
metaphore is the reality of the spiritual plain. WHat is metaphore becomes very real on the aetherial plain.



Actually occurred; but the lesson was metaphorical.
 Quoting: Chip
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Re: If Paul teaches that we "wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities" then who did Jacob wrestle?
not funny.



didn't you know? Jacob wrestled hulk hogan..and got arse whipped
 Quoting: humanitech 18914926
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Re: If Paul teaches that we "wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities" then who did Jacob wrestle?
The book of Genesis states that "Jacob... wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day." Was this man a principality and was he a fleshly man or incorporial man?
 Quoting: BZB


Jesus is the PRINCE of Peace.

Angels fight against principilaites to.

See Daniel having a vision of Gabriel answering his prayer, but Gabriel was delayed by the Prince of Peria for 21 days. Then Arch Angel Micheal came to rescue him and wrestled against the Prince of Persia. Micheal is the protector of Israel.
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Re: If Paul teaches that we "wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities" then who did Jacob wrestle?
verse please....



The book of Genesis states that "Jacob... wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day." Was this man a principality and was he a fleshly man or incorporial man?
 Quoting: BZB


Jesus is the PRINCE of Peace.

Angels fight against principilaites to.

See Daniel having a vision of Gabriel answering his prayer, but Gabriel was delayed by the Prince of Peria for 21 days. Then Arch Angel Micheal came to rescue him and wrestled against the Prince of Persia. Micheal is the protector of Israel.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14328296
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Re: If Paul teaches that we "wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities" then who did Jacob wrestle?
Luke 4:5-7: And the devil, taking him (Jesus) up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered (to surrender or yield up) unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.

[link to www.battleinchrist.com]
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Re: If Paul teaches that we "wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities" then who did Jacob wrestle?
verse please....



The book of Genesis states that "Jacob... wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day." Was this man a principality and was he a fleshly man or incorporial man?
 Quoting: BZB


Jesus is the PRINCE of Peace.

Angels fight against principilaites to.

See Daniel having a vision of Gabriel answering his prayer, but Gabriel was delayed by the Prince of Peria for 21 days. Then Arch Angel Micheal came to rescue him and wrestled against the Prince of Persia. Micheal is the protector of Israel.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14328296

 Quoting: BZB


Yes ill get back at ya...
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Re: If Paul teaches that we "wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities" then who did Jacob wrestle?
Totally different meaning altogether.
Just believe God's word!

Jacob wrestling an angel doesn't change a thing friend...the word still stands—our enemy is satan,NOT angels!!!

Get it?...
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Re: If Paul teaches that we "wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities" then who did Jacob wrestle?
verse please....



The book of Genesis states that "Jacob... wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day." Was this man a principality and was he a fleshly man or incorporial man?
 Quoting: BZB


Jesus is the PRINCE of Peace.

Angels fight against principilaites to.

See Daniel having a vision of Gabriel answering his prayer, but Gabriel was delayed by the Prince of Peria for 21 days. Then Arch Angel Micheal came to rescue him and wrestled against the Prince of Persia. Micheal is the protector of Israel.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14328296

 Quoting: BZB


Principalities

Principalities/Princes - derived from Latin princeps (sing.) and principates (pl.). The Greek of the Septuagint Old Testament and of the New Testament is arche (sing.) and archai (pl.), from archomai, beginning or commencement. The implication is that the arche or prince is the principle of order, the ruler of a principality. The Hebrew word used is sar, and carries the same meaning.

Daniel 10:13
But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

Daniel 10:21
But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.

Daniel 12:1
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Romans 8:38
For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor present things, nor future things, nor powers,

Ephes. 3:10
so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the principalities and authorities in the heavens.

Ephes. 6:12
For our struggle is not with flesh and blood but with the principalities, with the powers, with the world rulers of this present darkness, with the evil spirits in the heavens.

Col. 1:16
For in him were created all things in heaven and on earth,
the visible and the invisible,
whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers;
all things were created through him and for him.

Col. 2:15
despoiling the principalities and the powers, he made a public spectacle of them, leading them away in triumph by it.


Daniel 10
[1] In the third year of Cyrus, king of Persia, a revelation was given to Daniel, who had been named Belteshazzar. The revelation was certain: a great war; he understood it from the vision. [2] In those days, I, Daniel, mourned three full weeks. [3] I ate no savory food, I took no meat or wine, and I did not anoint myself at all until the end of the three weeks.
[4] On the twenty-fourth day of the first month I was on the bank of the great river, the Tigris. [5] As I looked up, I saw a man dressed in linen with a belt of fine gold around his waist. [6] His body was like chrysolite, his face shown like lightning, his eyes were like fiery torches, his arms and feet looked like burnished bronze, and his voice sounded like the roar of a multitude. [7] I alone, Daniel, saw the vision; but great fear seized the men who were with me; they fled and hid themselves, although they did not see the vision. [8] So I was left alone, seeing this great vision. No strength remained in me; I turned the color of death and was powerless. [9] When I heard the sound of his voice, I fell face forward in a faint.
[10] But then a hand touched me, raising me to my hands and knees. [11] "Daniel, beloved," he said to me, "understand the words which I am speaking to you; stand up, for my mission now is to you." When he said this to me, I stood up trembling. [12] "Fear not, Daniel," he continued; "from the first day you made up your mind to acquire understanding and humble yourself before God, your prayer was heard. Because of it I started out, [13] but the prince of the kingdom of Persia stood in my way for twenty-one days, until finally Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me. I left him there with the prince of the kings of Persia, [14] and came to make you understand what shall happen to your people in the days to come; for there is yet a vision concerning those days."
[15] While he was speaking thus to me, I fell forward and kept silent. [16] Then something like a man's hand touched my lips; I opened my mouth and said to the one facing me, "My lord, I was seized with pangs at the vision and I was powerless. [17] How can my lord's servant speak with you, my lord? For now no strength or even breath is left in me." [18] The one who looked like a man touched me again and strengthened me, saying, [19] "Fear not, beloved, you are safe; take courage and be strong." [20] When he spoke to me, I grew strong and said, "Speak, my lord, for you have strengthened me." "Do you know," he asked, "why I have come to you? Soon I must fight the prince of Persia again. When I leave, the prince of Greece will come; [21] but I shall tell you what is written in the truthful book. No one supports me against all these except Michael, your prince,
[11:1] standing as a reinforcement and a bulwark for me.

Daniel 12
[1] "At that time there shall arise
Michael, the great prince,
guardian of your people;
It shall be a time unsurpassed in distress
since nations began until that time.
At that time your people shall escape,
everyone who is found written in the book.
[2] Many of those who sleep
in the dust of the earth shall awake;
some shall live forever,
others shall be an everlasting horror and disgrace.
[3] But the wise shall shine brightly
like the splendor of the firmament,
And those who lead the many to justice
shall be like the stars forever.
[4] "As for you, Daniel, keep secret the message and seal the book until the end time; many shall fall away and evil shall increase."
[5] I, Daniel, looked and saw two others, one standing on either bank of the river. [6] One of them said to the man clothed in linen, who was upstream, "How long shall it be to the end of these appalling things?" [7] The man clothed in linen, who was upstream, lifted his right and left hands to heaven; and I heard him swear by him who lives forever that it should be for a year, two years, a half-year; and that, when the power of the destroyer of the holy people was brought to an end, all these things should end. [8] I heard, but I did not understand; so I asked, "My lord, what follows this?" [9] "Go, Daniel," he said, "because the words are to be kept secret and sealed until the end time. [10] Many shall be refined, purified, and tested, but the wicked shall prove wicked; none of them shall have understanding, but the wise shall have it. [11] From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the horrible abomination is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days. [12] Blessed is the man who has patience and perseveres until the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days. [13] Go, take your rest, you shall rise for your reward at the end of days."

[link to www.raphael.net]
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Re: If Paul teaches that we "wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities" then who did Jacob wrestle?
what the fuck are you talking about? 1/3 of the angels went with Satan in the rebellion. Job even said that God himself trusts not in the angels and he also charges them with mischief. FUck you!


Totally different meaning altogether.
Just believe God's word!

Jacob wrestling an angel doesn't change a thing friend...the word still stands—our enemy is satan,NOT angels!!!

Get it?...
 Quoting: TruthAddict 18260726


Last Edited by BZB on 07/01/2012 07:05 PM
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Re: If Paul teaches that we "wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities" then who did Jacob wrestle?
thanks.


verse please....



The book of Genesis states that "Jacob... wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day." Was this man a principality and was he a fleshly man or incorporial man?
 Quoting: BZB


Jesus is the PRINCE of Peace.

Angels fight against principilaites to.

See Daniel having a vision of Gabriel answering his prayer, but Gabriel was delayed by the Prince of Peria for 21 days. Then Arch Angel Micheal came to rescue him and wrestled against the Prince of Persia. Micheal is the protector of Israel.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14328296

 Quoting: BZB


Principalities

Principalities/Princes - derived from Latin princeps (sing.) and principates (pl.). The Greek of the Septuagint Old Testament and of the New Testament is arche (sing.) and archai (pl.), from archomai, beginning or commencement. The implication is that the arche or prince is the principle of order, the ruler of a principality. The Hebrew word used is sar, and carries the same meaning.

Daniel 10:13
But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

Daniel 10:21
But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.

Daniel 12:1
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Romans 8:38
For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor present things, nor future things, nor powers,

Ephes. 3:10
so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the principalities and authorities in the heavens.

Ephes. 6:12
For our struggle is not with flesh and blood but with the principalities, with the powers, with the world rulers of this present darkness, with the evil spirits in the heavens.

Col. 1:16
For in him were created all things in heaven and on earth,
the visible and the invisible,
whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers;
all things were created through him and for him.

Col. 2:15
despoiling the principalities and the powers, he made a public spectacle of them, leading them away in triumph by it.


Daniel 10
[1] In the third year of Cyrus, king of Persia, a revelation was given to Daniel, who had been named Belteshazzar. The revelation was certain: a great war; he understood it from the vision. [2] In those days, I, Daniel, mourned three full weeks. [3] I ate no savory food, I took no meat or wine, and I did not anoint myself at all until the end of the three weeks.
[4] On the twenty-fourth day of the first month I was on the bank of the great river, the Tigris. [5] As I looked up, I saw a man dressed in linen with a belt of fine gold around his waist. [6] His body was like chrysolite, his face shown like lightning, his eyes were like fiery torches, his arms and feet looked like burnished bronze, and his voice sounded like the roar of a multitude. [7] I alone, Daniel, saw the vision; but great fear seized the men who were with me; they fled and hid themselves, although they did not see the vision. [8] So I was left alone, seeing this great vision. No strength remained in me; I turned the color of death and was powerless. [9] When I heard the sound of his voice, I fell face forward in a faint.
[10] But then a hand touched me, raising me to my hands and knees. [11] "Daniel, beloved," he said to me, "understand the words which I am speaking to you; stand up, for my mission now is to you." When he said this to me, I stood up trembling. [12] "Fear not, Daniel," he continued; "from the first day you made up your mind to acquire understanding and humble yourself before God, your prayer was heard. Because of it I started out, [13] but the prince of the kingdom of Persia stood in my way for twenty-one days, until finally Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me. I left him there with the prince of the kings of Persia, [14] and came to make you understand what shall happen to your people in the days to come; for there is yet a vision concerning those days."
[15] While he was speaking thus to me, I fell forward and kept silent. [16] Then something like a man's hand touched my lips; I opened my mouth and said to the one facing me, "My lord, I was seized with pangs at the vision and I was powerless. [17] How can my lord's servant speak with you, my lord? For now no strength or even breath is left in me." [18] The one who looked like a man touched me again and strengthened me, saying, [19] "Fear not, beloved, you are safe; take courage and be strong." [20] When he spoke to me, I grew strong and said, "Speak, my lord, for you have strengthened me." "Do you know," he asked, "why I have come to you? Soon I must fight the prince of Persia again. When I leave, the prince of Greece will come; [21] but I shall tell you what is written in the truthful book. No one supports me against all these except Michael, your prince,
[11:1] standing as a reinforcement and a bulwark for me.

Daniel 12
[1] "At that time there shall arise
Michael, the great prince,
guardian of your people;
It shall be a time unsurpassed in distress
since nations began until that time.
At that time your people shall escape,
everyone who is found written in the book.
[2] Many of those who sleep
in the dust of the earth shall awake;
some shall live forever,
others shall be an everlasting horror and disgrace.
[3] But the wise shall shine brightly
like the splendor of the firmament,
And those who lead the many to justice
shall be like the stars forever.
[4] "As for you, Daniel, keep secret the message and seal the book until the end time; many shall fall away and evil shall increase."
[5] I, Daniel, looked and saw two others, one standing on either bank of the river. [6] One of them said to the man clothed in linen, who was upstream, "How long shall it be to the end of these appalling things?" [7] The man clothed in linen, who was upstream, lifted his right and left hands to heaven; and I heard him swear by him who lives forever that it should be for a year, two years, a half-year; and that, when the power of the destroyer of the holy people was brought to an end, all these things should end. [8] I heard, but I did not understand; so I asked, "My lord, what follows this?" [9] "Go, Daniel," he said, "because the words are to be kept secret and sealed until the end time. [10] Many shall be refined, purified, and tested, but the wicked shall prove wicked; none of them shall have understanding, but the wise shall have it. [11] From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the horrible abomination is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days. [12] Blessed is the man who has patience and perseveres until the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days. [13] Go, take your rest, you shall rise for your reward at the end of days."

[link to www.raphael.net]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14328296
Anonymous Coward
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Re: If Paul teaches that we "wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities" then who did Jacob wrestle?
The book of Genesis states that "Jacob... wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day." Was this man a principality and was he a fleshly man or incorporial man?
 Quoting: BZB


He wrestled with an angel, not a man.
BZB (OP)

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Re: If Paul teaches that we "wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities" then who did Jacob wrestle?
uh, i said "incorporial man" angels are incorporial.


The book of Genesis states that "Jacob... wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day." Was this man a principality and was he a fleshly man or incorporial man?
 Quoting: BZB


He wrestled with an angel, not a man.
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa
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Re: If Paul teaches that we "wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities" then who did Jacob wrestle?
Daniel 10: 13


But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.


The word rendered "prince" - means, properly, a leader, commander, chief, as of troops, Genesis 21:22; of a king's body-guard, Genesis 37:36; of cup-bearers, Genesis 41:9; of a prison, Genesis 39:21-22; of a flock, Genesis 47:6. Then it means a prince, a noble, a chief in the state, Genesis 12:15.

One and twenty days - During the whole time in which Daniel was engaged in fasting and prayer Daniel 10:2-3. The angel had been sent forth to make arrangements to secure the answer to his prayer when he began to pray, but had been delayed during all that time by the opposition which he had met with in Persia.

But, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes - Margin, "the first." That is, the first in rank of the "princes," or the angels. In other words, Michael, the archangel." The proper meaning of this name is, "Who as God," and is a name given, undoubtedly, from some resemblance to God. The exact reason why it is given is not anywhere stated; but may it not be this - that one looking on the majesty and glory of the chief of the angels would instinctively ask, "Who, after all, is like God? Even this lofty angel, with all his glory, cannot be compared to the high and lofty One." Whatever may have been the reason of the appellation, however, the name in the Scriptures has a definite application, and is given to the chief one of the angels. Compare the notes at Jde 1:9. The word "Michael," as a proper name, occurs several times in the Scriptures,
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Re: If Paul teaches that we "wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities" then who did Jacob wrestle?
uh, i said "incorporial man" angels are incorporial.


The book of Genesis states that "Jacob... wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day." Was this man a principality and was he a fleshly man or incorporial man?
 Quoting: BZB


He wrestled with an angel, not a man.
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa

 Quoting: BZB


No such thing as an "incorporial man".......lol. A man has a human body, that's what a man is. An angel has a spirit body. He wrestled with an angel.

"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

What he is saying here is that our ultimate war isn't with people, but with satan and his demons.

hf
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Re: If Paul teaches that we "wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities" then who did Jacob wrestle?
Oh Yes and this!

Romans 8
37] No, in all these things we conquer overwhelmingly through him who loved us. [38] For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor present things, nor future things, nor powers, [39] nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
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Re: If Paul teaches that we "wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities" then who did Jacob wrestle?
Revelation 3
5 Those who win the victory will be clothed like this in white, and I will not remove their names from the book of the living.

In the presence of my Father and of his angels I will declare openly that they belong to me.

6 “If you have ears, then, listen to what the Spirit says to the churches!
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Re: If Paul teaches that we "wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities" then who did Jacob wrestle?
what the fuck are you talking about? 1/3 of the angels went with Satan in the rebellion. Job even said that God himself trusts not in the angels and he also charges them with mischief. FUck you!


Totally different meaning altogether.
Just believe God's word!

Jacob wrestling an angel doesn't change a thing friend...the word still stands—our enemy is satan,NOT angels!!!

Get it?...
 Quoting: TruthAddict 18260726

 Quoting: BZB


Do you have ANY idea how idiotic you just made yoirself look???...

"THOSE" angels that "fell" are FALLEN ANGELS here friend,I was referring to them.Jacob was NOT wrestling with a fallen angel that night but an angel sent by God to test Jacob.Understand?...

As for God charging angels with mischeif?...yeah,so what???!!!...that's God's prerogative!

The word then,still stands—ou enemy is satan,NOT angels.Period.

p.s.calm down now,o.k?
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Re: If Paul teaches that we "wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities" then who did Jacob wrestle?
what the fuck are you talking about? 1/3 of the angels went with Satan in the rebellion. Job even said that God himself trusts not in the angels and he also charges them with mischief. FUck you!


Totally different meaning altogether.
Just believe God's word!

Jacob wrestling an angel doesn't change a thing friend...the word still stands—our enemy is satan,NOT angels!!!

Get it?...
 Quoting: TruthAddict 18260726

 Quoting: BZB


Do you have ANY idea how idiotic you just made yoirself look???...

"THOSE" angels that "fell" are FALLEN ANGELS here friend,I was referring to them.Jacob was NOT wrestling with a fallen angel that night but an angel sent by God to test Jacob.Understand?...

As for God charging angels with mischeif?...yeah,so what???!!!...that's God's prerogative!

The word then,still stands—ou enemy is satan,NOT angels.Period.

p.s.calm down now,o.k?
 Quoting: TruthAddict 18260726


Isaiah 34:4
And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falls off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

And all the host of heaven - On the word 'host' (צבא tsâbâ'), see the note at Isaiah 1:9. The heavenly bodies often represent kings and princes (compare the note at Isaiah 24:21).

Shall be dissolved - (ינמקוּ venâmaqqû. This figure Vitringa supposes to be taken from the common prejudice by which the stars appear to be crystals, or gems, set in the azure vault of heaven, which may melt and flow down by the application of heat. The sense is, that the princes and nobles who had opposed God and his people would be destroyed, as if the sparkling stars, like gems, should melt in the heavens, and flow down to the earth.

And the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll - The word 'scroll' here (ספר sêpher) means a roll, or a book. Books were made of parchment, leaves, etc., and were rolled together instead of being bound, as they are with us. The figure here is taken from what strikes the eye, that the heaven above us is "an expanse" (רקיע râqı̂ya‛) Genesis 1:8; Psalm 104:2,) which is spread out; and which might be rolled together, and thus pass away. It is possible that there may be a reference also to the fact, that in a storm, when the sky is filled with dark rolling clouds, the heavens seem to be rolled together, and to be passing away. The sense is, that there would be great destruction among those high in office and in power - a destruction that would be well represented by the rolling up of the firmament, and the destruction of the visible heavens and their host, and by leaving the world to ruin and to night.

And all their host shall fall down - That is, their stars; either by being as it were melted, or by the fact that the expanse in which they are apparently located would be rolled up and removed, and there being no fixtures for them they would fall. The same image occurs in Revelation 6:13. One somewhat similar occurs in Virgil, Georg. i.365ff.

As the leaf falleth off from the vine ... - That is, in a storm, or when violently shaken.

Clarke's Commentary on the Bible
And all the host of heaven See note on Isaiah 24:21, and De Sacra Poesi Hebraeorum, Prael. ix.

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
And all the hosts of heaven shall be dissolved,.... "Pine away" (i), as with sickness, grow languid, become obscure, lose their light, and be turned into blood and darkness; this figure is used to express the horror of this calamity, as if the very heavens themselves, and the sun, and moon, and stars, were affected with it; see Isaiah 13:10.

and the heavens shall be rolled gether as a scroll; a book, or volume, which when rolled up, one letter of it could not be read; and it was the manner formerly of making and writing books in the form of a roll; hence the word volume; and here it signifies that there should be such a change in the heavens, as that not a star should be seen, much less the sun or moon; and may signify the utter removal and abolition of all dignities and offices, supreme and subordinate, civil and ecclesiastical, in the whole Roman jurisdiction; thus the destruction of Rome Pagan is described in Revelation 6:14 as the destruction of Rome Papal is here; from whence the language seems to be borrowed:

and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree; that is, the stars should fall down: by whom may be meant persons in office, that made a considerable figure; who shall fall from their stations, in which they shone with much splendour and grandeur, as leaves fall from trees in autumn, particularly the vine; or as unripe and rotten figs fall from the fig tree when shaken by a violent wind; the same metaphor is used in Revelation 6:13.

(i) "tabescet", Vatablus; "centabescet", Junius & Tremellius, Piscator; "contabescent", Cocceius, Gataker.

Keil and Delitzsch Biblical Commentary on the Old Testament
The judgment foretold by Isaiah also belongs to the last things; for it takes place in connection with the simultaneous destruction of the present heaven and the present earth."And all the host of the heavens moulder away, and the heavens are rolled up like a scroll, and all their host withers as a leaf withers away from the vine, and like withered leaves from the fig-tree" (Nâmaq, to be dissolved into powdered mother (Isaiah 3:24; Isaiah 5:24); nâgōl (for nâgal, like nâzōl in Isaiah 63:19; Isaiah 64:2, and nârōts in Ecclesiastes 12:6), to be rolled up - a term applied to the cylindrical book-scroll. The heaven, that is to say, the present system of the universe, breaks up into atoms, and is rolled up like a book that has been read through; and the stars fall down as a withered leaf falls from a vine, when it is moved by even the lightest breeze, or like the withered leaves shaken from the fig-tree. The expressions are so strong, that they cannot be understood in any other sense than as relating to the end of the world (Isaiah 65:17; Isaiah 66:22; compare Matthew 24:29). It is not sufficient to say that "the stars appear to fall to the earth," though even Vitringa gives this explanation.

When we look, however, at the following kı̄ (for), it undoubtedly appears strange that the prophet should foretell the passing away of the heavens, simply because Jehovah judges Edom. But Edom stands here as the representative of all powers that are hostile to the church of God as such, and therefore expresses an idea of the deepest and widest cosmical signification (as Isaiah 24:21 clearly shows). And it is not only a doctrine of Isaiah himself, but a biblical doctrine universally, that God will destroy the present world as soon as the measure of the sin which culminates in unbelief, and in the persecution of the congregation of the faithful, shall be really full.

Geneva Study Bible
And all the host of heaven {c} shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their hosts shall fall down, as the leaf falleth from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

(c) He speaks this in respect to man's judgment, who in great fear and horrible troubles, think that heaven and earth perishes.

Wesley's Notes
34:4 Dissolved - The sun, moon, and stars. So great shall be the confusion and consternation of mankind, as if all the frame of the creation were broken into pieces. It is usual for prophetic writers, both in the Old and New Testament, to represent great and general calamities, in such words and phrases, as properly agree to the day of judgment; as on the contrary, the glorious deliverances of God's people, in such expressions, as properly agree to the resurrection from the dead.

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
4. (Ps 102:26; Joe 2:31; 3:15; Mt 24:29).

dissolved-(2Pe 3:10-12). Violent convulsions of nature are in Scripture made the images of great changes in the human world (Isa 24:19-21), and shall literally accompany them at the winding up of the present dispensation.

scroll-Books were in those days sheets of parchment rolled together (Re 6:14).

fall down-The stars shall fall when the heavens in which they are fixed pass away.

fig tree-(Re 6:13).

Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary
34:1-8 Here is a prophecy of the wars of the Lord, all which are both righteous and successful. All nations are concerned. And as they have all had the benefit of his patience, so all must expect to feel his resentment. The description of bloodshed suggests tremendous ideas of the Divine judgments. Idumea here denotes the nations at enmity with the church; also the kingdom of antichrist. Our thoughts cannot reach the horrors of that awful season, to those found opposing the church of Christ. There is a time fixed in the Divine counsels for the deliverance of the church, and the destruction of her enemies. We must patiently wait till then, and judge nothing before the time. Through Christ, mercy is exercised to every believer, consistently with justice, and his name is glorified.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: If Paul teaches that we "wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities" then who did Jacob wrestle?
Negative, entropic thought forms, desires, drives, temptations, ideas, archetypes are the root of what drives 'flesh and blood' to work and do evil to their own demise.

We fight and wrestle at the root and heart of the 'matter'...
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Re: If Paul teaches that we "wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities" then who did Jacob wrestle?
And right about now, you are acting like one of Satan's agents.


uh, i said "incorporial man" angels are incorporial.


The book of Genesis states that "Jacob... wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day." Was this man a principality and was he a fleshly man or incorporial man?
 Quoting: BZB


He wrestled with an angel, not a man.
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa

 Quoting: BZB


No such thing as an "incorporial man".......lol. A man has a human body, that's what a man is. An angel has a spirit body. He wrestled with an angel.

"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

What he is saying here is that our ultimate war isn't with people, but with satan and his demons.

hf
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa
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Re: If Paul teaches that we "wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities" then who did Jacob wrestle?
And right about now, you are acting like one of Satan's agents.


uh, i said "incorporial man" angels are incorporial.


...


He wrestled with an angel, not a man.
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa

 Quoting: BZB


No such thing as an "incorporial man".......lol. A man has a human body, that's what a man is. An angel has a spirit body. He wrestled with an angel.

"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

What he is saying here is that our ultimate war isn't with people, but with satan and his demons.

hf
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa

 Quoting: BZB


Oh really? I thought you were asking a bible question and I gave you an answer and tried to help you understand it. Now I"m one of "satan's agents"?

Ok......you have a good day.
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Re: If Paul teaches that we "wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities" then who did Jacob wrestle?
I do not bid you Godspeed because you came at me very disagreeably.

And right about now, you are acting like one of Satan's agents.


uh, i said "incorporial man" angels are incorporial.


...

 Quoting: BZB


No such thing as an "incorporial man".......lol. A man has a human body, that's what a man is. An angel has a spirit body. He wrestled with an angel.

"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

What he is saying here is that our ultimate war isn't with people, but with satan and his demons.

hf
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa

 Quoting: BZB


Oh really? I thought you were asking a bible question and I gave you an answer and tried to help you understand it. Now I"m one of "satan's agents"?

Ok......you have a good day.
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa
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Re: If Paul teaches that we "wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities" then who did Jacob wrestle?
bunch of dumb cunts on here it says jacobs hip was put out as he wrestled with the angel ...

physical ... not spiritual , i wish you lot would get over your fucking new age bullshit , he wrestled with a angel
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Re: If Paul teaches that we "wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities" then who did Jacob wrestle?
he wrestled with the angel in the immaterial plain (dream world). It did not happen in real time seeing as angels are incorporeal.


bunch of dumb cunts on here it says jacobs hip was put out as he wrestled with the angel ...

physical ... not spiritual , i wish you lot would get over your fucking new age bullshit , he wrestled with a angel
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18754398
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Re: If Paul teaches that we "wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities" then who did Jacob wrestle?
THE SAME NIGHT HE GOT UP AND TOOK HIS TWO WIVES, HIS TWO MAIDS, AND HIS ELEVEN CHILDREN, AND CROSSED THE FORD OF THE JABBOK. HE TOOK THEM AND SENT THEM ACROSS THE STREAM, AND LIKEWISE EVERYTHING THAT HE HAD. JACOB WAS LEFT ALONE; AND A MAN WRESTLED WITH HIM UNTIL DAYBREAK. WHEN THE MAN SAW THAT HE DID NOT PREVAIL AGAINST JACOB, HE STRUCK HIM ON THE HIP SOCKET; AND JACOB’S HIP WAS PUT OUT OF JOINT AS HE WRESTLED WITH HIM. THEN HE SAID, ‘let me go, for the day is breaking.’ BUT JACOB SAID, ‘I will not let you go, unless you bless me’. SO HE SAID TO HIM, ‘What is your name?’ AND HE SAID, ‘Jacob." THEN THE MAN SAID, ‘You shall no longer be called Jacob, but Israel, for you have striven with God and with humans, and have prevailed.’ THEN JACOB ASKED HIM, ‘Please tell me your name." BUT HE SAID, ‘Why is it that you ask my name?’ AND THERE HE BLESSED HIM. SO JACOB CALLED THE PLACE PENUEL, SAYING, ‘For I have seen God face to face, and yet my life is preserved.’ THE SUN ROSE UPON HIM AS HE PASSED PENUEL, LIMPING BECAUSE OF HIS HIP.

he wrestled with god ... he put his hip out with a touch ..
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Re: If Paul teaches that we "wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities" then who did Jacob wrestle?
he wrestled with the angel in the immaterial plain (dream world). It did not happen in real time seeing as angels are incorporeal.


bunch of dumb cunts on here it says jacobs hip was put out as he wrestled with the angel ...

physical ... not spiritual , i wish you lot would get over your fucking new age bullshit , he wrestled with a angel
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18754398

 Quoting: BZB


yeah read and weep , god put his hip out and named him isreal , our effin deluded , god was there , he was also there when he floated aove them in that ufo ...
Anonymous Coward
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07/01/2012 07:43 PM
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Re: If Paul teaches that we "wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities" then who did Jacob wrestle?
he wrestled with the angel in the immaterial plain (dream world). It did not happen in real time seeing as angels are incorporeal.


bunch of dumb cunts on here it says jacobs hip was put out as he wrestled with the angel ...

physical ... not spiritual , i wish you lot would get over your fucking new age bullshit , he wrestled with a angel
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18754398

 Quoting: BZB


yeah read and weep , god put his hip out and named him isreal , your effin deluded , god was there , he was also there when he floated above them in that ufo ..you are so wrong on everything with this new age bullshit you preach .
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18754398


yeah read and weep , god put his hip out and named him isreal , your effin deluded , god was there , he was also there when he floated above them in that ufo ..you are so wrong on everything with this new age bullshit you preach
dei sapientiam in mysterio

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Re: If Paul teaches that we "wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities" then who did Jacob wrestle?
The book of Genesis states that "Jacob... wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day." Was this man a principality and was he a fleshly man or incorporial man?
 Quoting: BZB


Penuel, also known as the "face of God",[1] is a place not far from Succoth, on the east of the Jordan and north of the river Jabbok. It is also called "Peniel" by Jacob, meaning 'face of God', "It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared." (Gen. 32:30 NIV) Here Jacob wrestled (Gen. 32:24-32) "with a man" ("the angel", Hos. 12:4) "till the break of day."

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

Last Edited by dei sapientiam in mysterio on 07/01/2012 07:50 PM
"But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory" (1 Corinthians chapter 2, verse 7)

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