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Greece on the verge of a civil war

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 19234140
Brazil
07/06/2012 11:01 AM
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Re: Greece on the verge of a civil war
I agree with Greece, send the immigrants back to their homeland.
 Quoting: pool




Starting by the descendants of the German, Italian and Irish immigrants that arrived in the USA in the 19th century!


ohyeah
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19234140


My family immigrated from Greece. I'd be proud, not a coward who fears improving their own kind. hf
 Quoting: pool




Go back to Greece, alien!
TapeWorm

User ID: 1180799
Canada
07/06/2012 11:10 AM
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Re: Greece on the verge of a civil war
I am starting to think that it might be a worldwide revolution.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18723832

Neither a revolution, nor a civil war. It will be, if something else doesn't happen before that, a massacre. People are just not ready to fight the psychopaths.

Normal people lack emotionless, cold calculation, lack of empathy, and computer-like precision and efficiency of psychopathic mind. In order to fight a psychopath, one has to understand a psychopath, to think like a psychopath, to detach oneself from everything but the goal to be achieved - extermination of the other side. Psychopaths are engineered to exterminate humanity, and that means that the only solution to the problem is extermination of the psychopaths.

But people identify themselves only with the visible. The flag, the country, the color of the uniform. Can you imagine what would happen if, within a single military unit, a psychopathic officer was recognized by a common soldier and, instead of shooting at the 'enemy combatants', that soldier pointed his gun at the psychopath that was giving him the orders and blew the head of that engineered son-of-a-bitch?

Chaos? The word doesn't even come close to describing what would happen if people suddenly turned the table on their masters and started systematically killing one psychopath after another.

Massacre of the people by the psychopaths is a much more likely outcome.

"Call each thing by its right name."
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19114383


These people aren't psychopaths. They're ordinary people like you or I. They are our neighbours, friends and family. To confront their privilege, we will need to understand the nature of the system. Calling them psychopaths does nothing other than make bogeymen of them.
 Quoting: Marxist


OK, self-anointed, self-privileged, elitist uber-selfish, who usually by some stroke of luck found themselves sitting pretty but then became self-delusional about how bright and right they are, while the rest of us are regarded as padding.
Hang out... EZ Links - HOT daily news portal.
[link to beyondprophecy.blogspot.ca]
pool
Netizen Ribbonmind

User ID: 9638135
United States
07/06/2012 11:12 AM

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Re: Greece on the verge of a civil war
I agree with Greece, send the immigrants back to their homeland.
 Quoting: pool




Starting by the descendants of the German, Italian and Irish immigrants that arrived in the USA in the 19th century!


ohyeah
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19234140


My family immigrated from Greece. I'd be proud, not a coward who fears improving their own kind. hf
 Quoting: pool




Go back to Greece, alien!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19234140


Alien. lmao

Second generation legal immigrant, Ellis Island.
"The earth is mother of us all, for she is just; but you, because you are unjust have pretended that she is your mother alone; and if you do not stop, I will not permit you to remain upon her."

[link to www.livius.org]
insertfunnyusername

User ID: 19085930
Greece
07/06/2012 11:12 AM
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Re: Greece on the verge of a civil war
Blaming Greece for everything that has befallen it is BS. Sure, they had liberal benefits. Not unlike France I think. Sure, they spent more than they took it. I guess every western state is in that boat.

This goes way beyond Greece. It's about EU policy, it's about international bankers.
 Quoting: Erectus


And of course these policies and bankers simply dropped from the sky and took over with no choice being available to the people.

chuckle

If the majority of the world abuses their children, that does not make the people of one particular area less guilty of abusing their children simply because the rest of the world does it also.

It is to say, "I'm not to blame for beating my wife! I know of a few other guys in this neighborhood who do the same!"

Really, now.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19218148


Come on, look at all the lies that have been told to the people of various countries. Do you honestly expect that the average citizen was aware of just how corrupt their governments have behaved? Let's be honest here, most average citizens still don't understand enough about their politicians to know who to elect in to power. They still believe in the left and right and that there's a difference between them.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17984819


The people (not all of them) made a choice to support the liars whose lies comforted them and allowed them to benefit at the expense of their own children. The majority had no idea what debt is? The majority had no idea the country was in debt? The people were totally unaware that the politicians were dishonest and corrupt? The people supported the liars and lies selfishly because they directly benefited in the short term as a result of those lies, at the expense of others. Lies can be very comforting when they help you to feel better about doing wrong.

If a person borrows a thousand dollars from a bank every day and then one day has the bill come due, ruining their own economic situation and their family's, are you saying this person is innocent because they would not consider the results of their actions? That this person should be assured that the actions they took were not in error?

Telling people that the consequences of their unethical moral choices are not their fault/responsibility simply gets you more of the same.

It may be painful to look honestly at these unethical choices, but it is necessary if one wishes to learn from them and not repeat them.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19218148


Don't be that cruel with so many people mate. Not everyone done the things you are saying there. 80% of the Greek people will have to pay for decades the sins of the other 20%. And that is public debt we are talking about here and not private debt of the people.
And i would get off my high horse if i was you, 50 million Americans on food stamps last time i checked, 200,000 Greeks on food rationing. 20,000 homeless Greeks and USA number is probably on the 2 million by now. Just because your MSM won't brainwash you these things everyday doesn't mean they aren't happening in front of your doorstep. But there is no reason to wake up the sheeps yet. Not saying that things are great here, far from it, they are fucked up and need changing yesterday. Have no doubt though that this shit will hit you hard too mate, it's a global phenomenon so i will reserve a bit my blaming and finger-pointing on the average people of this world.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 19218148
United States
07/06/2012 11:17 AM
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Re: Greece on the verge of a civil war
These Psychopaths can't stop themselves, that is the nature of their desperate illness.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18478911


Of course, the real problem is not the psychopaths themselves, it is the people who are willing to support said psychopaths with armies, nuclear weapons, and etc.

If people in general were themselves ethical enough to be against, say, mass murder, then there would not be an issue with a government killing millions abroad in the first place.

Actions speak louder than words.

It is one thing to claim to be against murder, theft, and such, but it says a lot more when people are in favor of providing said murderers and thieves with massive armies to carry out their tasks.

The ugly and unfortunate truth is that if enough people were truly opposed to mass murder, then it simply would not be possible for mass murders to occur as they do now. Someone like, say, Bush for example, would have been working at some place like a gas station where his actions would have been much more minimal and not instead managing the world's most powerful army.

How does Bush and those like him acquire the power that they have/had? The people whose failure in ethics cause them to give these people their support.

(I am not blaming Bush in particular, of course.. It's just an example. Replace 'Bush' with a Democrat or whoever -- the point remains the same.)

The problem will not be addressed by complaining about the actions of a corrupt few, but by the majority making a moral choice to no longer give their support to the corrupt few.

In short, a society of people who were not deeply flawed morally/ethically would not be empowering such people in the first place.

However, I do realize it is much less painful, that is feels much better, to place the blame/responsibility elsewhere. Unfortunately, to do this means that the situation will continue to not improve.
insertfunnyusername

User ID: 19085930
Greece
07/06/2012 11:29 AM
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Re: Greece on the verge of a civil war
Hello Foveras! I hope you are doing great today my friend!hf
Isn't the title of the article a little over the top and misleading? A non-violent protest of 200 Pakistanis can count as being on the verge of a civil war? We weren't on the verge of civil war last summer when thousands of people were protesting and fighting with the cops in the streets for days. There is no doubt though why the brought in 2 million illegal immigrants to Greece.
I 'll agree that defencenet is a fear-mongering source of news. The suicides though have started to be a daily occurrence and it is sad. People need to hang in there a bit more.
 Quoting: insertfunnyusername


Hello. How are you?hf
I know as I said. But I hear a lot of desperate people and things are getting worst. In some Greek forums the tension is real high and as you will well know Greeks are very vurnable to discord. And anyway the reason that every party and MSM in Greece is supporting, with theιr way, the Golden Dawn means that this plan exist in their mind. Is something that I listen being talk more and more
 Quoting: Foveras


Doing good tbh. I moved out from Athens for the summer and life on the countryside is great. Peaceful and on a whole other quality dimension and level compared to Athens. Athens is too hot in the summer and the beaches suck. I couldn't move all the gear i need from my studio yet though so i will make one more visit to get them here.

Forums are not a good place to measure the tension and the desperation of people methinks, countless internet warriors out there that do little when TSHTF. I agree though that the rising of fascism and the illegal immigrants is a staged event. The only way for them to do something for the headlines is using them.

Greek people regardless what the rest of the world thinks were not always rich and spoiled. Most of our parents were working in the farms by the age of 15. I'm 30 and i don't remember having a very luxurious life when i was a child, not that we were starving or something but you get the picture. We were here before and not everyone has forgotten they way we lived 10-15 years ago. A good lesson for all of the Greeks that believed and invested in the bubble. But as i said before, as a nation we are survivors and we'll be much stronger when this storm ends.
 Quoting: insertfunnyusername

I am jealous of you. I try for the past 5 years to convince my wife to move out from Athens. On the other hand my family wasn't rich also, but we were surrounded by family members that had money and have a lot of money (Cousins of father). Also my grandfather was a minister before xounda. So I grow up in an environment with a lot of contrasts. I have met a lot of politician and rich people and I fear I know how they thing. (I have also met Epitimo and I am still alive) It is just their survival. They'll do anything. Money is bad chancellor.
 Quoting: Foveras


Missed your post there Foveras, sorry.
I haven't moved out of Athens completely yet, i'm still renting my place there. But since i work freelance and use the internet for my work there is no reason to melt there. Athens is unbearable in the summer. Not that i have much inspiration to compose anything with the shit happening around us these days, but i do the basics to survive. I will probably move out completely though when TSHTF by September/October. Only Athens and Thessaloniki will suffer from the coming things. I tell you that life in the countryside is on another level and much cheaper and peaceful too.
Very interesting family background you have. At least you ll get the warning from them when TSHTF. And when this will happen you ll have to go from Athens for some time. It's going to be ugly for a while. Don't you have a family xorio/village to go in that case? You have to do your preparations, we already starting buying some extra food in small amounts for now. We have a small farm too, so i think we will manage it for a while.

Last Edited by insertfunnyusername on 07/06/2012 11:30 AM
insertfunnyusername

User ID: 19085930
Greece
07/06/2012 11:33 AM
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Re: Greece on the verge of a civil war
I agree with Greece, send the immigrants back to their homeland.
 Quoting: pool




Starting by the descendants of the German, Italian and Irish immigrants that arrived in the USA in the 19th century!


ohyeah
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19234140


My family immigrated from Greece. I'd be proud, not a coward who fears improving their own kind. hf
 Quoting: pool


Kalispera! Didn't know that about you Pool. Best wishes to you and your family.hf
Erectus

User ID: 14823865
United States
07/06/2012 11:34 AM
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Re: Greece on the verge of a civil war
These Psychopaths can't stop themselves, that is the nature of their desperate illness.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18478911


Of course, the real problem is not the psychopaths themselves, it is the people who are willing to support said psychopaths with armies, nuclear weapons, and etc.

If people in general were themselves ethical enough to be against, say, mass murder, then there would not be an issue with a government killing millions abroad in the first place.

Actions speak louder than words.

It is one thing to claim to be against murder, theft, and such, but it says a lot more when people are in favor of providing said murderers and thieves with massive armies to carry out their tasks.

The ugly and unfortunate truth is that if enough people were truly opposed to mass murder, then it simply would not be possible for mass murders to occur as they do now. Someone like, say, Bush for example, would have been working at some place like a gas station where his actions would have been much more minimal and not instead managing the world's most powerful army.

How does Bush and those like him acquire the power that they have/had? The people whose failure in ethics cause them to give these people their support.

(I am not blaming Bush in particular, of course.. It's just an example. Replace 'Bush' with a Democrat or whoever -- the point remains the same.)

The problem will not be addressed by complaining about the actions of a corrupt few, but by the majority making a moral choice to no longer give their support to the corrupt few.

In short, a society of people who were not deeply flawed morally/ethically would not be empowering such people in the first place.

However, I do realize it is much less painful, that is feels much better, to place the blame/responsibility elsewhere. Unfortunately, to do this means that the situation will continue to not improve.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19218148


Well, I hope you got your wheat and rice stored up because all that is coming here soon. We are in the same boat, it's just that our good name and reserve currency status has kept us going. That will not last though. will you then point your finger at yourself when your family is hungry?
Or will you be a dumb sheep and point your finger at whichever party you like to hate while embracing the other as the solution?

The politicians and banksters have done this. It was never what we wanted. They serve themselves in a fascist game of money and power. IT doesn't matter which politician we vote in we get the same poison in a different flavor.
Erectus
insertfunnyusername

User ID: 19085930
Greece
07/06/2012 11:39 AM
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Re: Greece on the verge of a civil war
I read the retirement age is fifty eight which is not really supportable is it, how long has that been like that? No wonder they broke.
 Quoting: deano 19220594


For the millionth time mate, Greek don't retire at 58, that is France's average retirement age. In Greece is 63 and about to go 67 with the measures imposed, cops, army, security forces and some special cases retire at 50 like the rest of the world. So don't believe everything you read in the MSM, i'm stating OECD data here.
 Quoting: insertfunnyusername


It's amusing how many times you have to repeat it and yet some people would still rather repeat what they hear on MSM. The same MSM they complain about all the time!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17984819


It's like people don't want to listen. Spoils the drama for them, MSM story is far more juicy and dramatic and have to go with what they tell them. I don't blame them though this was massive campaign, but as always truth will come to the top in the end.
Foveras (OP)

User ID: 18547850
Greece
07/06/2012 11:40 AM

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Re: Greece on the verge of a civil war
...


Hello. How are you?hf
I know as I said. But I hear a lot of desperate people and things are getting worst. In some Greek forums the tension is real high and as you will well know Greeks are very vurnable to discord. And anyway the reason that every party and MSM in Greece is supporting, with theιr way, the Golden Dawn means that this plan exist in their mind. Is something that I listen being talk more and more
 Quoting: Foveras


Doing good tbh. I moved out from Athens for the summer and life on the countryside is great. Peaceful and on a whole other quality dimension and level compared to Athens. Athens is too hot in the summer and the beaches suck. I couldn't move all the gear i need from my studio yet though so i will make one more visit to get them here.

Forums are not a good place to measure the tension and the desperation of people methinks, countless internet warriors out there that do little when TSHTF. I agree though that the rising of fascism and the illegal immigrants is a staged event. The only way for them to do something for the headlines is using them.

Greek people regardless what the rest of the world thinks were not always rich and spoiled. Most of our parents were working in the farms by the age of 15. I'm 30 and i don't remember having a very luxurious life when i was a child, not that we were starving or something but you get the picture. We were here before and not everyone has forgotten they way we lived 10-15 years ago. A good lesson for all of the Greeks that believed and invested in the bubble. But as i said before, as a nation we are survivors and we'll be much stronger when this storm ends.
 Quoting: insertfunnyusername

I am jealous of you. I try for the past 5 years to convince my wife to move out from Athens. On the other hand my family wasn't rich also, but we were surrounded by family members that had money and have a lot of money (Cousins of father). Also my grandfather was a minister before xounda. So I grow up in an environment with a lot of contrasts. I have met a lot of politician and rich people and I fear I know how they thing. (I have also met Epitimo and I am still alive) It is just their survival. They'll do anything. Money is bad chancellor.
 Quoting: Foveras


Missed your post there Foveras, sorry.
I haven't moved out of Athens completely yet, i'm still renting my place there. But since i work freelance and use the internet for my work there is no reason to melt there. Athens is unbearable in the summer. Not that i have much inspiration to compose anything with the shit happening around us these days, but i do the basics to survive. I will probably move out completely though when TSHTF by September/October. Only Athens and Thessaloniki will suffer from the coming things. I tell you that life in the countryside is on another level and much cheaper and peaceful too.
Very interesting family background you have. At least you ll get the warning from them when TSHTF. And when this will happen you ll have to go from Athens for some time. It's going to be ugly for a while. Don't you have a family xorio/village to go in that case? You have to do your preparations, we already starting buying some extra food in small amounts for now. We have a small farm too, so i think we will manage it for a while.
 Quoting: insertfunnyusername

Thankfully I have places to go (Chania, Pyrgos( my wife is from Pyrgos)). But with most members of the rich part of the family I dont have a very close relation. It was a choise I made. I was never really attracted by money. But all the infos I get are pretty bad and I am trying to prepare the minimum. The house at Pyrgos is functional and in a condition that you can live. The thing is to convince my wife before TSHF.
Love responsibility,
keep saying, I alone
will save the world
If it gets lost, myself only is responsible

N.Kazantzakis
Illuminatvs Primvs

User ID: 1476091
United States
07/06/2012 11:43 AM
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Re: Greece on the verge of a civil war
Even with the rise of poverty in Greece, it is still a lot better off than most of the world. Greece has been living a pretty darn good life without paying for it for a long time. I can't phantom all the complaining coming from Greeks. I don't know Greece's specific suicide numbers but I'm sure it pales to suicide rate in East Asia. Instead of grumbling about austerity measures, Greeks need to rise up and send all your corrupt politicians and bankers to jail but then again you would rather fight among yourselves or drink coffee at your cafe.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18355406


And you think this will change anything in capitalism?It's like trying to use a brothel as a church during the weekends.
 Quoting: Marxist


Best idea I've heard thus far.
"13013"
Foveras (OP)

User ID: 18547850
Greece
07/06/2012 11:43 AM

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Re: Greece on the verge of a civil war
Anyway IFUN they constantly try to increase the heat between the left and the Golden Dawn. No I read at Protothema that Syriza is going to leave the parliament when Michaloliakos start his speech. This are no good things.
[link to www.protothema.gr]
Love responsibility,
keep saying, I alone
will save the world
If it gets lost, myself only is responsible

N.Kazantzakis
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1550123
United States
07/06/2012 11:46 AM
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Re: Greece on the verge of a civil war
Fuck. I'm going there on holiday this monday
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11222564


At least you vacationing their will help some out financially. So you will be doing a good thing. Support the local economy.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 19218148
United States
07/06/2012 11:48 AM
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Re: Greece on the verge of a civil war
...


And of course these policies and bankers simply dropped from the sky and took over with no choice being available to the people.

chuckle

If the majority of the world abuses their children, that does not make the people of one particular area less guilty of abusing their children simply because the rest of the world does it also.

It is to say, "I'm not to blame for beating my wife! I know of a few other guys in this neighborhood who do the same!"

Really, now.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19218148


Come on, look at all the lies that have been told to the people of various countries. Do you honestly expect that the average citizen was aware of just how corrupt their governments have behaved? Let's be honest here, most average citizens still don't understand enough about their politicians to know who to elect in to power. They still believe in the left and right and that there's a difference between them.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17984819


The people (not all of them) made a choice to support the liars whose lies comforted them and allowed them to benefit at the expense of their own children. The majority had no idea what debt is? The majority had no idea the country was in debt? The people were totally unaware that the politicians were dishonest and corrupt? The people supported the liars and lies selfishly because they directly benefited in the short term as a result of those lies, at the expense of others. Lies can be very comforting when they help you to feel better about doing wrong.

If a person borrows a thousand dollars from a bank every day and then one day has the bill come due, ruining their own economic situation and their family's, are you saying this person is innocent because they would not consider the results of their actions? That this person should be assured that the actions they took were not in error?

Telling people that the consequences of their unethical moral choices are not their fault/responsibility simply gets you more of the same.

It may be painful to look honestly at these unethical choices, but it is necessary if one wishes to learn from them and not repeat them.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19218148


Don't be that cruel with so many people mate.
 Quoting: insertfunnyusername


Sometimes the truth is harsh. Telling someone not to be honest with people about their situation is like telling a doctor to never give people bad news and a treatment, because the bad news and treatment would be uncomfortable, even though it would/could save them.

Do you think it is wrong for doctors to offer treatments which are uncomfortable which could help them or even save their lives?

If not, then you should see my point.

Not everyone done the things you are saying there.
 Quoting: insertfunnyusername


I said that in my post which you're replying to:

"The people (not all of them) made a choice"


80% of the Greek people will have to pay for decades the sins of the other 20%.
 Quoting: insertfunnyusername


So you're saying 80% were opposed to these things and only 20% supported it? How could 20% possibly do all of this against the 80% if the 80% were strongly opposed to it?

To make this more simple, let me give an example that shows how faulty this claim is:

There are 20 guys standing around, and 4 of these 20 guys, 20%, says to the other 16, "We are going to rape this woman who is walking towards us."

All things being equal, it is not possible for these 4 guys to successfuly rape this one woman if the other 16 are truly and strongly opposed to it happening. The 16 others could easily stop the 4 if they wished.
It would be pretty silly to claim, "Well, nothing could be done. People cared with all their hearts, and hated standing their watching it occur, but nothing could be done."

Not the best of examples, but...

In any case, I find that only 20% of people supported the debt, the corrupt politicians, and so forth, completely unrealistic.

Just take the U.S. as an example: the problems are discussed all the time, all over the place. The majority has heard of problems with debt, wars, as even the media here has discussed it public on many occasions.

It is like the U.S. financially collapsing and people going around claiming, "Debt? What is debt? I've never heard of this thing you call debt before... Wars contributed to this thing you call 'debt'? What wars???"

laugh

Nonsensical.

Of course, debt is hardly the only problem, or even the main problem. Again, it's just an example.

Either way, regardless of why the people are in the situation they are in, the solution is the same: they must understand the harsh truth so they can avoid repeating their mistakes.

Unfortunately, this harsh truth and responsibility are necessary. Lying to them and encouraging them to engage in more of the same is not going to solve the situation.


Just as I'd be against a doctor doing this with their patient, telling their patient their unhealthy behaviors are not their responsibility, and keeping the life-saving treatments from their patients, I am opposed to those who commit this terrible mistake when it comes to politics.

In medicine, it is not at all uncommon for a doctor to have to deliver unpleasant news or provide an unpleasant treatment to save the life of the person before them.
This truth does not apply to the medical field alone.

Which kind of doctor would you prefer?
insertfunnyusername

User ID: 19085930
Greece
07/06/2012 11:50 AM
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Re: Greece on the verge of a civil war
Fuck. I'm going there on holiday this monday
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11222564


You will have no problem at all. Don't believe anything you hear. Where exactly do you go btw?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1550123
United States
07/06/2012 11:51 AM
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Re: Greece on the verge of a civil war
Thanks for this thread, OP. Keep us updated and hope you stay safe and keep a positive attitude.
insertfunnyusername

User ID: 19085930
Greece
07/06/2012 11:59 AM
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Re: Greece on the verge of a civil war
...


Come on, look at all the lies that have been told to the people of various countries. Do you honestly expect that the average citizen was aware of just how corrupt their governments have behaved? Let's be honest here, most average citizens still don't understand enough about their politicians to know who to elect in to power. They still believe in the left and right and that there's a difference between them.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17984819


The people (not all of them) made a choice to support the liars whose lies comforted them and allowed them to benefit at the expense of their own children. The majority had no idea what debt is? The majority had no idea the country was in debt? The people were totally unaware that the politicians were dishonest and corrupt? The people supported the liars and lies selfishly because they directly benefited in the short term as a result of those lies, at the expense of others. Lies can be very comforting when they help you to feel better about doing wrong.

If a person borrows a thousand dollars from a bank every day and then one day has the bill come due, ruining their own economic situation and their family's, are you saying this person is innocent because they would not consider the results of their actions? That this person should be assured that the actions they took were not in error?

Telling people that the consequences of their unethical moral choices are not their fault/responsibility simply gets you more of the same.

It may be painful to look honestly at these unethical choices, but it is necessary if one wishes to learn from them and not repeat them.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19218148


Don't be that cruel with so many people mate.
 Quoting: insertfunnyusername


Sometimes the truth is harsh. Telling someone not to be honest with people about their situation is like telling a doctor to never give people bad news and a treatment, because the bad news and treatment would be uncomfortable, even though it would/could save them.

Do you think it is wrong for doctors to offer treatments which are uncomfortable which could help them or even save their lives?

If not, then you should see my point.

Not everyone done the things you are saying there.
 Quoting: insertfunnyusername


I said that in my post which you're replying to:

"The people (not all of them) made a choice"


80% of the Greek people will have to pay for decades the sins of the other 20%.
 Quoting: insertfunnyusername


So you're saying 80% were opposed to these things and only 20% supported it? How could 20% possibly do all of this against the 80% if the 80% were strongly opposed to it?

To make this more simple, let me give an example that shows how faulty this claim is:

There are 20 guys standing around, and 4 of these 20 guys, 20%, says to the other 16, "We are going to rape this woman who is walking towards us."

All things being equal, it is not possible for these 4 guys to successfuly rape this one woman if the other 16 are truly and strongly opposed to it happening. The 16 others could easily stop the 4 if they wished.
It would be pretty silly to claim, "Well, nothing could be done. People cared with all their hearts, and hated standing their watching it occur, but nothing could be done."

Not the best of examples, but...

In any case, I find that only 20% of people supported the debt, the corrupt politicians, and so forth, completely unrealistic.

Just take the U.S. as an example: the problems are discussed all the time, all over the place. The majority has heard of problems with debt, wars, as even the media here has discussed it public on many occasions.

It is like the U.S. financially collapsing and people going around claiming, "Debt? What is debt? I've never heard of this thing you call debt before... Wars contributed to this thing you call 'debt'? What wars???"

laugh

Nonsensical.

Of course, debt is hardly the only problem, or even the main problem. Again, it's just an example.

Either way, regardless of why the people are in the situation they are in, the solution is the same: they must understand the harsh truth so they can avoid repeating their mistakes.

Unfortunately, this harsh truth and responsibility are necessary. Lying to them and encouraging them to engage in more of the same is not going to solve the situation.


Just as I'd be against a doctor doing this with their patient, telling their patient their unhealthy behaviors are not their responsibility, and keeping the life-saving treatments from their patients, I am opposed to those who commit this terrible mistake when it comes to politics.

In medicine, it is not at all uncommon for a doctor to have to deliver unpleasant news or provide an unpleasant treatment to save the life of the person before them.
This truth does not apply to the medical field alone.

Which kind of doctor would you prefer?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19218148


The 80-20 analogy is that only the 20% got rich with the euro and the other 80% of the population got poorer and they have to pay for the sins of the other 20% so stop with the rape nonsense analogies coz it's not what i 've said. As i already said in previous posts, Greeks will survive this lesson, it's not like we lived in capitalism for 50 years. If you believe that the coming financial collapse is people's fault and not the fault of the banks, i don't have much more to say with you mate. We agree to disagree on this one. Lets see if you will have the same beliefs when TSHTF over there my friend, coz people without compassion and solidarity to their fellow neighbor will find things far more tough. It's a karma thing.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 19114383
Serbia
07/06/2012 12:06 PM
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Re: Greece on the verge of a civil war
These people aren't psychopaths. They're ordinary people like you or I. They are our neighbours, friends and family. To confront their privilege, we will need to understand the nature of the system. Calling them psychopaths does nothing other than make bogeymen of them.
 Quoting: Marxist

What people are you referring to?

I said nothing about your neighbours, friends, family. I was talking about psychopaths, but since one category doesn't exclude the other, they may actually be your neighbours, friends or family. All psychopaths are someone's neighbours, they do have 'friends' (useful idiots to use and abuse), and they have most certainly had a mother at some point in their lives. But calling them by any other but their true name will be the final demise of the human species.

I've had plenty of personal experience with psychopathic personalities (to my advantage, thankfully), and you may trust me on this or not, but they are, genetically, mentally, psychologically, and in every other way, engineered to hate, despise and feel (at the most basic level, as they are incapable of more) utter contempt for all the normal human beings.

They can't help it. Psychopathy is not a disease. Psychopathy is an engineered product. A product that cannot think, but can only act and react to outside stimuli. They are perfect biological machines without any conscious thought in their empty minds. They are not stupid, though. They're extremely capable of information processing, but they are just as empty of any conscious though as any PC or smart phone. They just do what they were engineered to do. Nothing more and nothing less.

I am intentionally emphasizing and using synonyms for picturing a psychopathic mental construct, because normal people are truly incapable of understanding what it looks like. No amount of words can truly describe it, however, which is most unfortunate, but things are as they are, and no amount of regretting the shortcoming of language can change the facts.

They are now, like genetically modified cockroaches, hiding in the dark crevices of the human society, concentrated both at the top and at the bottom positions of power, but once the right time comes, and come it will, they will start doing what they have been genetically engineered to do... collapse the human societies and start the wars that will lead to human extinction.

You don't believe me? Then, maybe, you should look back at what's been going on for the last decade.

They are already doing it, and calling what they do by any other but its true name will be the final demise of the human species... which they are not a part of.

This is an inter-species war.

That is the true name of what is happening now.
Foveras (OP)

User ID: 18547850
Greece
07/06/2012 12:07 PM

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Re: Greece on the verge of a civil war
Thanks for this thread, OP. Keep us updated and hope you stay safe and keep a positive attitude.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1550123


hf
Love responsibility,
keep saying, I alone
will save the world
If it gets lost, myself only is responsible

N.Kazantzakis
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 19218148
United States
07/06/2012 12:11 PM
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Re: Greece on the verge of a civil war
will you then point your finger at yourself when your family is hungry?
 Quoting: Erectus


I do not, and have not, supported these policies and corrupt people. Why would I point the finger at myself for being opposed to the situation?

Or will you be a dumb sheep and point your finger at whichever party you like to hate while embracing the other as the solution?
 Quoting: Erectus


No. I thought that much would be pretty clear.

The politicians and banksters have done this. It was never what we wanted.
 Quoting: Erectus


Depends on who you mean by "we." If the majority had not wanted it, it would not have been possible in the first place.

They serve themselves in a fascist game of money and power. IT doesn't matter which politician we vote in we get the same poison in a different flavor.
 Quoting: Erectus


Yes, giving one lying, thieving murderer massive armies at his command is not much better than giving some other lying, thieving murderer massive armies at his command.

Thus, it is better to be opposed to doing this at all.

Moral/ethical people will not support giving liars/murderers/etc massive armies.

Once enough people are ethical enough to do this, the "politicians and banksters" are powerless.

The real problem is that not enough people are ethical enough to take this position. Blaming the "politicians and banksters" and not the people who put them in these positions of power is dishonest/inaccurate, and a road to certain future failure.

This is the harsh truth that must be understood if improvement is to occur.

Those who claim to be ethical must put their words into actions by not supporting those who are unethical.

Going after the corrupt elite, rather than addressing the moral/ethical failures at large is a farce, like quack medicine.

The ethical person should not advocate bad solutions (quack medicine).

Helping others out of this situation requires harsh truths, and unpleasant treatment.

Telling people the 'elite' are mostly to blame is like giving a patient morphine for his toothache and never addressing the actual problem.

It won't end well.

In any case, this is my last post in this thread. If one does not 'get the point' by now, one is unlikely to any time soon.

I have some other things to attend to, so I won't be reading any further replies.

And the posts are mainly for those looking at how to solve these problems, rather than cover up the lies that led to them with more lies.

I wish those living in Greece well, which is why I prefer for them to have the truth (medicine/treatment), and the opportunity to not to repeat those errors made thus far.

Sadly, I suspect for the time being that many would prefer to take the easier, less productive route of ranting about politicians and bankers, not looking inwards, and thus not solving much of anything.
insertfunnyusername

User ID: 19085930
Greece
07/06/2012 01:26 PM
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Re: Greece on the verge of a civil war
...


Doing good tbh. I moved out from Athens for the summer and life on the countryside is great. Peaceful and on a whole other quality dimension and level compared to Athens. Athens is too hot in the summer and the beaches suck. I couldn't move all the gear i need from my studio yet though so i will make one more visit to get them here.

Forums are not a good place to measure the tension and the desperation of people methinks, countless internet warriors out there that do little when TSHTF. I agree though that the rising of fascism and the illegal immigrants is a staged event. The only way for them to do something for the headlines is using them.

Greek people regardless what the rest of the world thinks were not always rich and spoiled. Most of our parents were working in the farms by the age of 15. I'm 30 and i don't remember having a very luxurious life when i was a child, not that we were starving or something but you get the picture. We were here before and not everyone has forgotten they way we lived 10-15 years ago. A good lesson for all of the Greeks that believed and invested in the bubble. But as i said before, as a nation we are survivors and we'll be much stronger when this storm ends.
 Quoting: insertfunnyusername

I am jealous of you. I try for the past 5 years to convince my wife to move out from Athens. On the other hand my family wasn't rich also, but we were surrounded by family members that had money and have a lot of money (Cousins of father). Also my grandfather was a minister before xounda. So I grow up in an environment with a lot of contrasts. I have met a lot of politician and rich people and I fear I know how they thing. (I have also met Epitimo and I am still alive) It is just their survival. They'll do anything. Money is bad chancellor.
 Quoting: Foveras


Missed your post there Foveras, sorry.
I haven't moved out of Athens completely yet, i'm still renting my place there. But since i work freelance and use the internet for my work there is no reason to melt there. Athens is unbearable in the summer. Not that i have much inspiration to compose anything with the shit happening around us these days, but i do the basics to survive. I will probably move out completely though when TSHTF by September/October. Only Athens and Thessaloniki will suffer from the coming things. I tell you that life in the countryside is on another level and much cheaper and peaceful too.
Very interesting family background you have. At least you ll get the warning from them when TSHTF. And when this will happen you ll have to go from Athens for some time. It's going to be ugly for a while. Don't you have a family xorio/village to go in that case? You have to do your preparations, we already starting buying some extra food in small amounts for now. We have a small farm too, so i think we will manage it for a while.
 Quoting: insertfunnyusername

Thankfully I have places to go (Chania, Pyrgos( my wife is from Pyrgos)). But with most members of the rich part of the family I dont have a very close relation. It was a choise I made. I was never really attracted by money. But all the infos I get are pretty bad and I am trying to prepare the minimum. The house at Pyrgos is functional and in a condition that you can live. The thing is to convince my wife before TSHF.
 Quoting: Foveras


Pyrgos sounds great mate. Have some spare gas for this trip. Lots of food there also and not many immigrants. Some great beaches is a plus. I dj'ed there last summer in very nice club, good-hearted people, bit crazy though most of them.
Very good thing that you were never attracted by money coz they are going to worth fuck all in a bit. Other things are far more important in this life. Your wife will be convinced when that time comes, have no doubt. Keep doing your preparations my friend coz we don't have that much time.

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