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For those that rely on religion or government to dictate their lives......

 
422

User ID: 19237114
United States
07/06/2012 12:18 PM
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Re: For those that rely on religion or government to dictate their lives......
If you need a church, a book or a priest to tell you what is moral or immoral, or a politician or police officer to tell you what's right or wrong, then you need more help than any of those things can give you. It's time we let go of our dependency on others to tell us what to do, and start to think for ourselves. We are supposed to be adults, not children. We need to start acting as such, and take responsibility for ourselves and our actions instead of relying on others to do it for us, or to tell us what we should or should not be doing.

It's time we grow up.
 Quoting: ajk


Where is what's moral or immoral defined. What if your moral guidlines are slightly different than others? Who's to say you're right and they're wrong? What if their morals are wrong, in your opinion, but not in theirs?

You believe in anarchy?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 119873


If it violates someone elses Freedom, Liberty or pursuit of happiness, it's immoral.
“You have rights antecedent to all earthly governments; rights that cannot be repealed or restrained by human laws; rights derived from the Great Legislator of the Universe.” John Adams, Second President of the United States
ajk (OP)

User ID: 1114631
United States
07/06/2012 12:20 PM
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Re: For those that rely on religion or government to dictate their lives......
...


What part of personal freedom don't you get? You can do ANYTHING you want if you aren't harming another, hell believe anything you want even. But your rights end where someone else's begins.
 Quoting: ajk


The part where YOU want to dictate who or what defines MY belief system.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10783814


What he is saying is that no one should tell others what to do.
Just do no harm.

WTF is wrong with you? Dropped to many times on your head it seems like.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 506563

Do no harm? Like insulting me for questioning the OP's assertion that I abandon my belief system simply because they say so?

Looks like the prototype needs more work.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10783814


Look you can BELIEVE anything you want, BUT to base how you act from that belief system is foolish. You can still believe it all you want, but be smart about it.
No one is perfect. A babe before walking will first stumble and fall many times but NEVER gives up until he succeeds.

Always remember, ultimately, to never follow any person's belief. Your relationship with God is between you and God.

If nothing else, remember this: religion = subservience, control and conformity, the same template as EVERY government

"Most believers would kill truth if truth threatened their religion." L. K. Washburn

"This crime called blasphemy was invented by priests for the purpose of defending doctrines not able to take care of themselves." Robert Ingersoll

"If anyone wants to know how God feels, it's a warm light as if the sun is poking through dark clouds and lifting your spirits with pure joy."
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 7057750
United States
07/06/2012 12:25 PM
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Re: For those that rely on religion or government to dictate their lives......
If it violates someone elses Freedom, Liberty or pursuit of happiness, it's immoral.
 Quoting: 422


yes, and always strictly on a case-by-case basis....
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 7057750
United States
07/06/2012 12:27 PM
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Re: For those that rely on religion or government to dictate their lives......
Look you can BELIEVE anything you want, BUT to base how you act from that belief system is foolish. You can still believe it all you want, but be smart about it.

 Quoting: ajk


be smart about it ??

you sound like you are just repeating the arguement you formulated when you were 13 to counter your parents with....
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 10783814
United States
07/06/2012 12:27 PM
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Re: For those that rely on religion or government to dictate their lives......
If you need a church, a book or a priest to tell you what is moral or immoral, or a politician or police officer to tell you what's right or wrong, then you need more help than any of those things can give you. It's time we let go of our dependency on others to tell us what to do, and start to think for ourselves. We are supposed to be adults, not children. We need to start acting as such, and take responsibility for ourselves and our actions instead of relying on others to do it for us, or to tell us what we should or should not be doing.

It's time we grow up.
 Quoting: ajk


Look you can BELIEVE anything you want, BUT to base how you act from that belief system is foolish. You can still believe it all you want, but be smart about it.
 Quoting: ajk


Please stop. You're embarrassing yourself.

Get help. You're a control freak.
422

User ID: 19237114
United States
07/06/2012 12:27 PM
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Re: For those that rely on religion or government to dictate their lives......
If you need a church, a book or a priest to tell you what is moral or immoral, or a politician or police officer to tell you what's right or wrong, then you need more help than any of those things can give you. It's time we let go of our dependency on others to tell us what to do, and start to think for ourselves. We are supposed to be adults, not children. We need to start acting as such, and take responsibility for ourselves and our actions instead of relying on others to do it for us, or to tell us what we should or should not be doing.

It's time we grow up.
 Quoting: ajk


Where is what's moral or immoral defined. What if your moral guidlines are slightly different than others? Who's to say you're right and they're wrong? What if their morals are wrong, in your opinion, but not in theirs?

You believe in anarchy?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 119873


I believe in personal responsibility, personal freedom. You make the choice, you OWN it and any consequences, it shouldn't be based on a religious belief, or what a government dictates. That isn't what freedom is about.
 Quoting: ajk


what consequences? In your ideal world, why would there be any consequences? That would mean that in your world there are punishable actions that can be committed. Who determines what actions are punishable or not?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 119873


Of course there would be consequences, you can't violate someone's Freedom, Liberty or pursuit of happiness. It's really very simple but has been perceived to be complicated.
“You have rights antecedent to all earthly governments; rights that cannot be repealed or restrained by human laws; rights derived from the Great Legislator of the Universe.” John Adams, Second President of the United States
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 7057750
United States
07/06/2012 12:28 PM
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Re: For those that rely on religion or government to dictate their lives......
If you need a church, a book or a priest to tell you what is moral or immoral, or a politician or police officer to tell you what's right or wrong, then you need more help than any of those things can give you. It's time we let go of our dependency on others to tell us what to do, and start to think for ourselves. We are supposed to be adults, not children. We need to start acting as such, and take responsibility for ourselves and our actions instead of relying on others to do it for us, or to tell us what we should or should not be doing.

It's time we grow up.
 Quoting: ajk


It is called being an American

It is called freedom


remember, you came to the conclusions you posted when you were a child....
 Quoting: Sugarelf


Freedom can only exist, when you have the freedom to do ANYTHING you want to do in your personal life provided no one is being harmed in the process, without someone else telling you you cannot. Anything less than that, is not freedom.
 Quoting: ajk


only adults are free citizens in the United States, children are not
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 119873
United States
07/06/2012 12:29 PM
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Re: For those that rely on religion or government to dictate their lives......
...


You believe in personal freedom yet want to define the meaning of that for the rest of us and dictate to us the allowable parameters of our belief system?

Yeah, ok.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10783814


What part of personal freedom don't you get? You can do ANYTHING you want if you aren't harming another, hell believe anything you want even. But your rights end where someone else's begins.
 Quoting: ajk


The part where YOU want to dictate who or what defines MY belief system.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10783814


What he is saying is that no one should tell others what to do.
Just do no harm.

WTF is wrong with you? Dropped to many times on your head it seems like.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 506563


What you and the OP don't get is that, unfortunately, there are others who believe it's OKAY to hurt others in order to get what they want. Who is the OP to say where the "Freedom" stops for them? If OP believes in FREEDOM, then he has no right to tell ANYONE else where their freedom stops. The point is that, while his rationale sounds ideal, it's flawed.

This is why we have law and order (not the tv show). Laws and rules are put in place for a reason. When we know the rules, as well as the consequences of breaking them, then civility within a populace takes precedence.

If there is no standard, then everyone does what they please.

This is why I asked the OP the question about lust and hatred. He may think those things are okay because he's not physically hurting anyone, but according to the Bible they are not okay. As a matter of fact, they are considered sin. Whether the OP knows it or not, he is a sinner. He may not want to concede that assertion because he "chooses" to hold to his own belief system, but that's the point of this debate.

He may say, do what you want (here's where his law is inserted) but don't hurt anyone else. Others may consider your law N/A to their belief system, just as you may consider the Bible's laws N/A to you. Get it?

But don't fret. If you never, EVER, come to the knowledge of the truth it's simply because God does not want you to. Whether you believe it or not, there is no such thing as Free will. If you are a vessel of wrath, fitted to destruction, then the Bible says you are destined to die in your sin and go to hell.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 7057750
United States
07/06/2012 12:29 PM
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Re: For those that rely on religion or government to dictate their lives......
Of course there would be consequences, you can't violate someone's Freedom, Liberty or pursuit of happiness. It's really very simple but has been perceived to be complicated.
 Quoting: 422


remember, that argument is only applicable to adults....
422

User ID: 19237114
United States
07/06/2012 12:33 PM
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Re: For those that rely on religion or government to dictate their lives......
If you need a church, a book or a priest to tell you what is moral or immoral, or a politician or police officer to tell you what's right or wrong, then you need more help than any of those things can give you. It's time we let go of our dependency on others to tell us what to do, and start to think for ourselves. We are supposed to be adults, not children. We need to start acting as such, and take responsibility for ourselves and our actions instead of relying on others to do it for us, or to tell us what we should or should not be doing.

It's time we grow up.
 Quoting: ajk


It is called being an American

It is called freedom


remember, you came to the conclusions you posted when you were a child....
 Quoting: Sugarelf


Freedom can only exist, when you have the freedom to do ANYTHING you want to do in your personal life provided no one is being harmed in the process, without someone else telling you you cannot. Anything less than that, is not freedom.
 Quoting: ajk


only adults are free citizens in the United States, children are not
 Quoting: Sugarelf


You are either very delusional or have no idea what Freedom is if you think we are living in it.
“You have rights antecedent to all earthly governments; rights that cannot be repealed or restrained by human laws; rights derived from the Great Legislator of the Universe.” John Adams, Second President of the United States
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 119873
United States
07/06/2012 12:35 PM
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Re: For those that rely on religion or government to dictate their lives......
...


Where is what's moral or immoral defined. What if your moral guidlines are slightly different than others? Who's to say you're right and they're wrong? What if their morals are wrong, in your opinion, but not in theirs?

You believe in anarchy?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 119873


I believe in personal responsibility, personal freedom. You make the choice, you OWN it and any consequences, it shouldn't be based on a religious belief, or what a government dictates. That isn't what freedom is about.
 Quoting: ajk


what consequences? In your ideal world, why would there be any consequences? That would mean that in your world there are punishable actions that can be committed. Who determines what actions are punishable or not?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 119873


Of course there would be consequences, you can't violate someone's Freedom, Liberty or pursuit of happiness. It's really very simple but has been perceived to be complicated.
 Quoting: 422



"you can't violate...." Says who, you? That's the question here. Who says you can't hurt others to get what you want? Where is that universal law documented? It didn't stop the founding of America, etc......
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 7057750
United States
07/06/2012 12:35 PM
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Re: For those that rely on religion or government to dictate their lives......
...


It is called being an American

It is called freedom


remember, you came to the conclusions you posted when you were a child....
 Quoting: Sugarelf


Freedom can only exist, when you have the freedom to do ANYTHING you want to do in your personal life provided no one is being harmed in the process, without someone else telling you you cannot. Anything less than that, is not freedom.
 Quoting: ajk


only adults are free citizens in the United States, children are not
 Quoting: Sugarelf


You are either very delusional or have no idea what Freedom is if you think we are living in it.
 Quoting: 422


the concept of Freedom is not the same for children and adults, as only adults have the power of choice--children do not
ajk (OP)

User ID: 1114631
United States
07/06/2012 12:45 PM
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Re: For those that rely on religion or government to dictate their lives......
Oy......stop the ignorance hurts.......
No one is perfect. A babe before walking will first stumble and fall many times but NEVER gives up until he succeeds.

Always remember, ultimately, to never follow any person's belief. Your relationship with God is between you and God.

If nothing else, remember this: religion = subservience, control and conformity, the same template as EVERY government

"Most believers would kill truth if truth threatened their religion." L. K. Washburn

"This crime called blasphemy was invented by priests for the purpose of defending doctrines not able to take care of themselves." Robert Ingersoll

"If anyone wants to know how God feels, it's a warm light as if the sun is poking through dark clouds and lifting your spirits with pure joy."
ajk (OP)

User ID: 1114631
United States
07/06/2012 12:46 PM
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Re: For those that rely on religion or government to dictate their lives......
...


I believe in personal responsibility, personal freedom. You make the choice, you OWN it and any consequences, it shouldn't be based on a religious belief, or what a government dictates. That isn't what freedom is about.
 Quoting: ajk


what consequences? In your ideal world, why would there be any consequences? That would mean that in your world there are punishable actions that can be committed. Who determines what actions are punishable or not?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 119873


Of course there would be consequences, you can't violate someone's Freedom, Liberty or pursuit of happiness. It's really very simple but has been perceived to be complicated.
 Quoting: 422



"you can't violate...." Says who, you? That's the question here. Who says you can't hurt others to get what you want? Where is that universal law documented? It didn't stop the founding of America, etc......
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 119873


It's in your HEART, but guess you don't have much of one to know that do you?
No one is perfect. A babe before walking will first stumble and fall many times but NEVER gives up until he succeeds.

Always remember, ultimately, to never follow any person's belief. Your relationship with God is between you and God.

If nothing else, remember this: religion = subservience, control and conformity, the same template as EVERY government

"Most believers would kill truth if truth threatened their religion." L. K. Washburn

"This crime called blasphemy was invented by priests for the purpose of defending doctrines not able to take care of themselves." Robert Ingersoll

"If anyone wants to know how God feels, it's a warm light as if the sun is poking through dark clouds and lifting your spirits with pure joy."
ajk (OP)

User ID: 1114631
United States
07/06/2012 12:47 PM
Report Abusive Post
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Re: For those that rely on religion or government to dictate their lives......
...


What part of personal freedom don't you get? You can do ANYTHING you want if you aren't harming another, hell believe anything you want even. But your rights end where someone else's begins.
 Quoting: ajk


The part where YOU want to dictate who or what defines MY belief system.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10783814


What he is saying is that no one should tell others what to do.
Just do no harm.

WTF is wrong with you? Dropped to many times on your head it seems like.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 506563


What you and the OP don't get is that, unfortunately, there are others who believe it's OKAY to hurt others in order to get what they want. Who is the OP to say where the "Freedom" stops for them? If OP believes in FREEDOM, then he has no right to tell ANYONE else where their freedom stops. The point is that, while his rationale sounds ideal, it's flawed.

This is why we have law and order (not the tv show). Laws and rules are put in place for a reason. When we know the rules, as well as the consequences of breaking them, then civility within a populace takes precedence.

If there is no standard, then everyone does what they please.

This is why I asked the OP the question about lust and hatred. He may think those things are okay because he's not physically hurting anyone, but according to the Bible they are not okay. As a matter of fact, they are considered sin. Whether the OP knows it or not, he is a sinner. He may not want to concede that assertion because he "chooses" to hold to his own belief system, but that's the point of this debate.

He may say, do what you want (here's where his law is inserted) but don't hurt anyone else. Others may consider your law N/A to their belief system, just as you may consider the Bible's laws N/A to you. Get it?

But don't fret. If you never, EVER, come to the knowledge of the truth it's simply because God does not want you to. Whether you believe it or not, there is no such thing as Free will. If you are a vessel of wrath, fitted to destruction, then the Bible says you are destined to die in your sin and go to hell.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 119873


Why am I not surprised......get help, seriously. You don't have a damn clue what you're speaking.
No one is perfect. A babe before walking will first stumble and fall many times but NEVER gives up until he succeeds.

Always remember, ultimately, to never follow any person's belief. Your relationship with God is between you and God.

If nothing else, remember this: religion = subservience, control and conformity, the same template as EVERY government

"Most believers would kill truth if truth threatened their religion." L. K. Washburn

"This crime called blasphemy was invented by priests for the purpose of defending doctrines not able to take care of themselves." Robert Ingersoll

"If anyone wants to know how God feels, it's a warm light as if the sun is poking through dark clouds and lifting your spirits with pure joy."
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 119873
United States
07/06/2012 12:47 PM
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Re: For those that rely on religion or government to dictate their lives......
...


what consequences? In your ideal world, why would there be any consequences? That would mean that in your world there are punishable actions that can be committed. Who determines what actions are punishable or not?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 119873


Of course there would be consequences, you can't violate someone's Freedom, Liberty or pursuit of happiness. It's really very simple but has been perceived to be complicated.
 Quoting: 422



"you can't violate...." Says who, you? That's the question here. Who says you can't hurt others to get what you want? Where is that universal law documented? It didn't stop the founding of America, etc......
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 119873


It's in your HEART, but guess you don't have much of one to know that do you?
 Quoting: ajk


It's called playing the devil's advocate to prove a point, one that you're having a hard time with. It's cool. Maybe one day.
422

User ID: 19237114
United States
07/06/2012 12:53 PM
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Re: For those that rely on religion or government to dictate their lives......
...


Of course there would be consequences, you can't violate someone's Freedom, Liberty or pursuit of happiness. It's really very simple but has been perceived to be complicated.
 Quoting: 422



"you can't violate...." Says who, you? That's the question here. Who says you can't hurt others to get what you want? Where is that universal law documented? It didn't stop the founding of America, etc......
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 119873


It's in your HEART, but guess you don't have much of one to know that do you?
 Quoting: ajk


It's called playing the devil's advocate to prove a point, one that you're having a hard time with. It's cool. Maybe one day.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 119873


What point are you proving? You are the one that has a hard time understanding a simple concept.
“You have rights antecedent to all earthly governments; rights that cannot be repealed or restrained by human laws; rights derived from the Great Legislator of the Universe.” John Adams, Second President of the United States
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 964984
United States
07/09/2012 10:39 AM
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Re: For those that rely on religion or government to dictate their lives......
Of course there would be consequences, you can't violate someone's Freedom, Liberty or pursuit of happiness. It's really very simple but has been perceived to be complicated.
 Quoting: 422


remember, that argument is only applicable to adults....
 Quoting: Sugarelf
it's only applicable, to a moral society, with strictly defined set of guidelines.

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