Godlike Productions - Conspiracy Forum
Users Online Now: 1,590 (Who's On?)Visitors Today: 581,989
Pageviews Today: 783,237Threads Today: 161Posts Today: 3,724
08:06 AM


Rate this Thread

Absolute BS Crap Reasonable Nice Amazing
 

France sells bonds at negative interest rate

 
neodimiun
Offer Upgrade

User ID: 18587757
United States
07/09/2012 11:23 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
France sells bonds at negative interest rate
PARIS (AP) -- France's government has sold short-term bonds at negative interest rates for the first time.

[link to hosted.ap.org]
A person who never made a mistake never tried anything new.
Albert Einstein
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 18737161
United States
07/09/2012 11:58 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: France sells bonds at negative interest rate
I don't understand. Negative? Does that mean those buying the bonds have to pay interest instead of earning interest?
RAe
User ID: 19334426
United States
07/09/2012 12:04 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: France sells bonds at negative interest rate
It means means the buyers are paying to receive less money back.

Who in their right mind would do that? No one. So what this tells me is that managed funds, Mutual Funds, IRAs, Government managed accounts, yadda yadda funds along these lines managed by a third party are being used to buy these bonds. It's ugly.

The French Government must be willing to take the negative press because they desperately need funding.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 18096709
United States
07/09/2012 12:06 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: France sells bonds at negative interest rate
This needs a pin as this is significant as "breaking the buck"
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 18737161
United States
07/09/2012 12:08 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: France sells bonds at negative interest rate
It means means the buyers are paying to receive less money back.

Who in their right mind would do that? No one. So what this tells me is that managed funds, Mutual Funds, IRAs, Government managed accounts, yadda yadda funds along these lines managed by a third party are being used to buy these bonds. It's ugly.

The French Government must be willing to take the negative press because they desperately need funding.
 Quoting: RAe 19334426


Wow!
So they are basically "paying" to buy the bonds if they're getting less back. Wtf? Who would do that? Here, you can borrow $100,000 but only have to pay back $90,000? Kind of like that?
RAe
User ID: 19334426
United States
07/09/2012 01:01 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: France sells bonds at negative interest rate
No, it's more like by these 98K bonds for 100K

We promise to pay you 98K on this date if you pay us 100K now.

It's like giving the French Government an excellent loan.

It's a guarantee they'll only loose 2k type deal, which looks good if you think anywhere else you could put that money would loose even more.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 19425797
07/09/2012 01:03 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: France sells bonds at negative interest rate
And so it begins...

hiding
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 12759837
United States
07/09/2012 01:07 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: France sells bonds at negative interest rate
Thats what you call one of those "Progressive" "Socialist" states that we are striving to emulate.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 19425797
07/09/2012 01:17 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: France sells bonds at negative interest rate
Thats what you call one of those "Progressive" "Socialist" states that we are striving to emulate.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12759837



You are totally clueless, right?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 19285966
Puerto Rico
07/09/2012 01:21 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: France sells bonds at negative interest rate
PARIS (AP) -- France's government has sold short-term bonds at negative interest rates for the first time.

[link to hosted.ap.org]
 Quoting: neodimiun


What Idiot Will buy thoose !


OPPS ! American investors ! DAM !@ohno
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 19425797
07/09/2012 01:22 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: France sells bonds at negative interest rate
When investors are desperate for safety, and they know that huge losses are imminent, they flock into this kind of deal.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 12759837
United States
07/09/2012 01:22 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: France sells bonds at negative interest rate
Thats what you call one of those "Progressive" "Socialist" states that we are striving to emulate.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12759837



You are totally clueless, right?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19425797


That title would fall to you and your tiny, tiny, tiny little mind.
Erectus
User ID: 14823865
United States
07/09/2012 01:23 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: France sells bonds at negative interest rate
What does it say about the state of the world economy when people are happy to lose in investments just to feel secure from greater loss?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 12759837
United States
07/09/2012 01:23 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: France sells bonds at negative interest rate
PARIS (AP) -- France's government has sold short-term bonds at negative interest rates for the first time.

[link to hosted.ap.org]
 Quoting: neodimiun


What Idiot Will buy thoose !


OPPS ! American investors ! DAM !@ohno
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19285966


Good one spic! Now get back out on the corner and pimp your sister so your family can eat beans tonight.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 19425797
07/09/2012 01:26 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: France sells bonds at negative interest rate
Thats what you call one of those "Progressive" "Socialist" states that we are striving to emulate.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12759837



You are totally clueless, right?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19425797


That title would fall to you and your tiny, tiny, tiny little mind.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12759837



It may happen in ANY country of the world, moron.

The only necessary thing is a huge number of investors desperate for "safety" against huge losses.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 12759837
United States
07/09/2012 01:28 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: France sells bonds at negative interest rate
Thats what you call one of those "Progressive" "Socialist" states that we are striving to emulate.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12759837



You are totally clueless, right?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19425797


That title would fall to you and your tiny, tiny, tiny little mind.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12759837



It may happen in ANY country of the world, moron.

The only necessary thing is a huge number of investors desperate for "safety" against huge losses.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19425797


You are not very bright and lose IQ points interacting with you.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 12759837
United States
07/09/2012 01:41 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: France sells bonds at negative interest rate
...



You are totally clueless, right?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19425797


That title would fall to you and your tiny, tiny, tiny little mind.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12759837



It may happen in ANY country of the world, moron.

The only necessary thing is a huge number of investors desperate for "safety" against huge losses.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19425797


You are not very bright and lose IQ points interacting with you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12759837


*and I
Jack Asperger
User ID: 19387703
United States
07/09/2012 01:48 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: France sells bonds at negative interest rate
Its the equivalent of "Stuffing Money In a Mattress" for banks



What this means is that financial firms are positive that there's going to be another HUGE recession.




Lets say you have 50 billion (Euros ) in the EU and you believe that European stocks are about to drop through the floor and lose 50% of their value

So people in Europe with lots of assets are in a bind

Gold is already overpriced , so if you buy it now and try to sell it later you're guaranteed to lose at least 25%

Stocks are about to collapse ( again ) and lose at least 50% of their value.

The banks are going to collapse , so you're an idiot if you trust them with large deposits

You CANT store billions of Euro's worth of CASH in a safe deposit box, only "small" investors have this option , there simply isn't enough currency in circulation for the "Big Boys" to do this.


So whats going on right now is

Large investors are getting their wealth OUT OF THE BANKS and OUT OF THE STOCK MARKET and they need somewhere to store it

The "safest" place they can put it is in government bonds.




Imagine you have five cruise ships , with no life boats ,sinking in the Arctic Ocean and one of the boats is sinking a little slower than the rest ....that's the boat everyone wants to be on, you could actually sell tickets at outrageous prices even though the boat is sinking too.


Financial institutions are so desperate to get off the "other boats" ( Stocks, banks, gold ) that they are willing to take a loss at this point to buy bonds they normally wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1091987
United States
07/09/2012 01:53 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: France sells bonds at negative interest rate
under the mattress might be better
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1711362
Canada
07/09/2012 01:54 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: France sells bonds at negative interest rate
Its the equivalent of "Stuffing Money In a Mattress" for banks



What this means is that financial firms are positive that there's going to be another HUGE recession.




Lets say you have 50 billion (Euros ) in the EU and you believe that European stocks are about to drop through the floor and lose 50% of their value

So people in Europe with lots of assets are in a bind

Gold is already overpriced , so if you buy it now and try to sell it later you're guaranteed to lose at least 25%

Stocks are about to collapse ( again ) and lose at least 50% of their value.

The banks are going to collapse , so you're an idiot if you trust them with large deposits

You CANT store billions of Euro's worth of CASH in a safe deposit box, only "small" investors have this option , there simply isn't enough currency in circulation for the "Big Boys" to do this.


So whats going on right now is

Large investors are getting their wealth OUT OF THE BANKS and OUT OF THE STOCK MARKET and they need somewhere to store it

The "safest" place they can put it is in government bonds.




Imagine you have five cruise ships , with no life boats ,sinking in the Arctic Ocean and one of the boats is sinking a little slower than the rest ....that's the boat everyone wants to be on, you could actually sell tickets at outrageous prices even though the boat is sinking too.


Financial institutions are so desperate to get off the "other boats" ( Stocks, banks, gold ) that they are willing to take a loss at this point to buy bonds they normally wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole.
 Quoting: Jack Asperger 19387703


Thanks for explaining it like that. Now it makes sense.hf
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1431110
United States
07/09/2012 01:55 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: France sells bonds at negative interest rate
Its the equivalent of "Stuffing Money In a Mattress" for banks



What this means is that financial firms are positive that there's going to be another HUGE recession.




Lets say you have 50 billion (Euros ) in the EU and you believe that European stocks are about to drop through the floor and lose 50% of their value

So people in Europe with lots of assets are in a bind

Gold is already overpriced , so if you buy it now and try to sell it later you're guaranteed to lose at least 25%

Stocks are about to collapse ( again ) and lose at least 50% of their value.

The banks are going to collapse , so you're an idiot if you trust them with large deposits

You CANT store billions of Euro's worth of CASH in a safe deposit box, only "small" investors have this option , there simply isn't enough currency in circulation for the "Big Boys" to do this.


So whats going on right now is

Large investors are getting their wealth OUT OF THE BANKS and OUT OF THE STOCK MARKET and they need somewhere to store it

The "safest" place they can put it is in government bonds.




Imagine you have five cruise ships , with no life boats ,sinking in the Arctic Ocean and one of the boats is sinking a little slower than the rest ....that's the boat everyone wants to be on, you could actually sell tickets at outrageous prices even though the boat is sinking too.


Financial institutions are so desperate to get off the "other boats" ( Stocks, banks, gold ) that they are willing to take a loss at this point to buy bonds they normally wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole.
 Quoting: Jack Asperger 19387703


Very nice and easy to understand explanation...really puts it in perspective
Resister

User ID: 669410
United States
07/09/2012 01:57 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: France sells bonds at negative interest rate
What does it say about the state of the world economy when people are happy to lose in investments just to feel secure from greater loss?
 Quoting: Erectus 14823865


^this^

It has gotten so bad that people are willing to "shelter" their money in a guarranteed loss because they believe not doing so will result in much greater loss. France is just treading water while it is watching Greece, Protugal, Spain, and now Italy drowned. It knows it is the next domino and so do investors. They might as well be flat out asking for donations like a street corner bum at this point.
"God forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, & always, well informed... If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty... Let them take arms... What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. " - Thomas Jefferson in 1787
[link to line-in-the-sand.spam]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 18737161
United States
07/09/2012 01:58 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: France sells bonds at negative interest rate
Its the equivalent of "Stuffing Money In a Mattress" for banks



What this means is that financial firms are positive that there's going to be another HUGE recession.




Lets say you have 50 billion (Euros ) in the EU and you believe that European stocks are about to drop through the floor and lose 50% of their value

So people in Europe with lots of assets are in a bind

Gold is already overpriced , so if you buy it now and try to sell it later you're guaranteed to lose at least 25%

Stocks are about to collapse ( again ) and lose at least 50% of their value.

The banks are going to collapse , so you're an idiot if you trust them with large deposits

You CANT store billions of Euro's worth of CASH in a safe deposit box, only "small" investors have this option , there simply isn't enough currency in circulation for the "Big Boys" to do this.


So whats going on right now is

Large investors are getting their wealth OUT OF THE BANKS and OUT OF THE STOCK MARKET and they need somewhere to store it

The "safest" place they can put it is in government bonds.




Imagine you have five cruise ships , with no life boats ,sinking in the Arctic Ocean and one of the boats is sinking a little slower than the rest ....that's the boat everyone wants to be on, you could actually sell tickets at outrageous prices even though the boat is sinking too.


Financial institutions are so desperate to get off the "other boats" ( Stocks, banks, gold ) that they are willing to take a loss at this point to buy bonds they normally wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole.
 Quoting: Jack Asperger 19387703


Thanks for explaining it like that. Now it makes sense.hf
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1711362


Agreed, fantastic explanation. Very Schiff-like, too. Peter? ;)

Suggested this thread be pinned.
FierySky

User ID: 7612693
United States
07/09/2012 02:00 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: France sells bonds at negative interest rate
It still doesn't make any sense as if you just held on to your 100,000 you would have more money. I don't see this as a safety investment. I would say that if they are doing this, they are even less likely to pay you back your 98,000.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 19428374
United States
07/09/2012 02:05 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: France sells bonds at negative interest rate
What does it say about the state of the world economy when people are happy to lose in investments just to feel secure from greater loss?
 Quoting: Erectus 14823865


^this^

It has gotten so bad that people are willing to "shelter" their money in a guarranteed loss because they believe not doing so will result in much greater loss. France is just treading water while it is watching Greece, Protugal, Spain, and now Italy drowned. It knows it is the next domino and so do investors. They might as well be flat out asking for donations like a street corner bum at this point.
 Quoting: Resister


but yet so many people are consuming and living fine. explain this someone seriously. govt employees some but many others. why aren't they affected. will they ever. this is all sounds like a soap opera another story for us to follow and be scared with.
Resister

User ID: 669410
United States
07/09/2012 02:12 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: France sells bonds at negative interest rate
It still doesn't make any sense as if you just held on to your 100,000 you would have more money. I don't see this as a safety investment. I would say that if they are doing this, they are even less likely to pay you back your 98,000.
 Quoting: FierySky


Ordinarily you would be right, but my guess is if... when the Euro dies that 100k in the bank will be about as good as 100k peices of blank paper. By "investing" in French government bonds now, even for negative interest, the money will have to be re-paid in the new/old-world currency of the state instead of the Euro if they get the timing right. It looks like a desparate gamble to me.
"God forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, & always, well informed... If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty... Let them take arms... What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. " - Thomas Jefferson in 1787
[link to line-in-the-sand.spam]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 19429488
United States
07/09/2012 02:12 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: France sells bonds at negative interest rate
It still doesn't make any sense as if you just held on to your 100,000 you would have more money. I don't see this as a safety investment. I would say that if they are doing this, they are even less likely to pay you back your 98,000.
 Quoting: FierySky


you are assuming that it is liquid assets

its actually all fake (fiat) digital money

most of which can not be turned back into liquid dollars (cash on hand) without significant penalties (taxes and fees)
Jack Asperger
User ID: 19387703
United States
07/09/2012 02:16 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: France sells bonds at negative interest rate
It still doesn't make any sense as if you just held on to your 100,000 you would have more money. I don't see this as a safety investment. I would say that if they are doing this, they are even less likely to pay you back your 98,000.
 Quoting: FierySky


There isn't enough currency for "Big Institutions" to convert their wealth into cash.


The "Small" investors can do this ( and it's what individuals in Europe SHOULD be doing) but when you need to store hundreds of billions of Euros OUTSIDE the banks and stock market the only option you have is bonds.



To stick with my original metaphor about the "sinking ships"

Lets say there are life boats ( currency = lifeboat ) but some of the passengers are too big to fit into them...those are the passengers desperate to get onto the "slow sinking ship"

Passengers who can fit into the lifeboats are better off to get into them.
Jack Asperger
User ID: 19387703
United States
07/09/2012 02:16 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: France sells bonds at negative interest rate
It still doesn't make any sense as if you just held on to your 100,000 you would have more money. I don't see this as a safety investment. I would say that if they are doing this, they are even less likely to pay you back your 98,000.
 Quoting: FierySky


There isn't enough currency for "Big Institutions" to convert their wealth into cash.


The "Small" investors can do this ( and it's what individuals in Europe SHOULD be doing) but when you need to store hundreds of billions of Euros OUTSIDE the banks and stock market the only option you have is bonds.



To stick with my original metaphor about the "sinking ships"

Lets say there are life boats ( currency = lifeboat ) but some of the passengers are too big to fit into them...those are the passengers desperate to get onto the "slow sinking ship"

Passengers who can fit into the lifeboats are better off to get into them.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 19428374
United States
07/09/2012 02:17 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: France sells bonds at negative interest rate
It still doesn't make any sense as if you just held on to your 100,000 you would have more money. I don't see this as a safety investment. I would say that if they are doing this, they are even less likely to pay you back your 98,000.
 Quoting: FierySky


you are assuming that it is liquid assets

its actually all fake (fiat) digital money

most of which can not be turned back into liquid dollars (cash on hand) without significant penalties (taxes and fees)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19429488


finally -- yes, it is a fake bullshit scam. punching numbers in computer like a kid with a calculator. everyone lives around this scam.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 19428374
United States
07/09/2012 02:19 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: France sells bonds at negative interest rate
It still doesn't make any sense as if you just held on to your 100,000 you would have more money. I don't see this as a safety investment. I would say that if they are doing this, they are even less likely to pay you back your 98,000.
 Quoting: FierySky


you are assuming that it is liquid assets

its actually all fake (fiat) digital money

most of which can not be turned back into liquid dollars (cash on hand) without significant penalties (taxes and fees)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19429488


finally -- yes, it is a fake bullshit scam. punching numbers in computer like a kid with a calculator. everyone lives around this scam.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19428374


money is their control mechanism. so this is all a diversion from something out of their control. buying zombies attention and time while the paper printers prepare for something else they don't want people to know about due to panic.

News








Proud Member Of The Angry Mob