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Are people capable of self governance?

 
s. d. butler

User ID: 974819
United States
07/10/2012 05:58 PM
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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
"People who cannot restrain their own baser instincts, who cannot treat one another with civility, are not capable of self-government." - Chuck Colson
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4488404


+1
 Quoting: HI.Lander


Ascendence of Sociopaths in US Governance

... the US government, in particular, is being overrun by the wrong kind of person. It's a trend that's been in motion for many years but has now reached a point of no return. In other words, a type of moral rot has become so prevalent that it's institutional in nature. There is not going to be, therefore, any serious change in the direction in which the US is headed until a genuine crisis topples the existing order. Until then, the trend will accelerate.

The reason is that a certain class of people – sociopaths – are now fully in control of major American institutions. Their beliefs and attitudes are insinuated throughout the economic, political, intellectual and psychological/spiritual fabric of the US.

[link to lewrockwell.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15030656


I think this is the problem, sociopaths aka psychopaths have taken over. Glad to see there is at least one other LRC reader.
ANHEDONIC

User ID: 16542544
United States
07/10/2012 07:01 PM

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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
Yes but not until all the present day programming and indoctrination has been removed.

"You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger"
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 17158698
United States
07/10/2012 07:18 PM
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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
to turn this thing over theres enough roles for everyone
Resister (OP)

User ID: 1461638
United States
07/10/2012 09:44 PM

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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
Yes but not until all the present day programming and indoctrination has been removed.
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC


Agreed if by "present day programming" you mean the dependence on government and fake sense of freedom. People today think they are free but at the same time demand all kinds of anti-freedom gimmies from government like they aren't giving over control of their lives for it in return.

Any idea of self governance goes out the window when people are are forced by government to meet its demands for basic needs that anyone should be responsible for providing for themselves.
"God forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, & always, well informed... If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty... Let them take arms... What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. " - Thomas Jefferson in 1787
Eagle # 1
User ID: 19350768
United States
07/10/2012 10:17 PM
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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
I voted YES, BUT ...... The communist party has always been prepared in any country that has devisions, problems, revolution, etc. to place THEIR preselected candidates up for consideration/election MUCH QUICKER than any 'Citizen Leaders' will step forward, or consider doing so.

As ONLY politicians make plans for the future, wallow in the Peoples Money Troth for all their lives AND, people NOW think of the parasitic politicians as BELOW even lawyers, few WANT that LABEL in their lives. It is TOO disgraceful !

ONLY IF their is anarchy, where, as Mao said " Government comes out of the barrel of a gun ", would small militant communities ever have the TIME to consider a strong, patriotic and HONEST man/woman to head their 'government'.

But there is always the bickering among various factions, self interest groups that defeat most democratic attempts at self government. Thus, will probably ONLY happen when the group with the 'gun control' get lucky, IMHO !

Eagle
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 19350768
United States
07/10/2012 10:22 PM
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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
P.S. to the above .... To EVER possibly achieve self government, ALL lawyers, banisters and parasitic politicians MUST be driven out or HUNG. Within a year, these scum who destroy our American way of life WILL CORRUPT IT AGAIN !

Eagle
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 788508
Spain
07/11/2012 04:15 AM
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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
Are people capable of self governance?

thats what being a real "adult" is all about.
how many are out there?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 14942629
United States
07/11/2012 04:24 AM
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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
Uh...yeah

we did it for like 100,000yrs prior to this modern era

if anything people are built for self governance in small communities
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 19535429
Australia
07/11/2012 04:32 AM
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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
yup america turned away from liberty freedom and living in all godliness and honesty. to the cess pool of sin and iniquity it is today.
Piscesian Misesian

User ID: 19031228
United States
07/11/2012 04:33 AM
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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
What does he mean, "Is it possible?"
We govern ourselves every single day despite force monopolization of thugs confiscating your wealth at every opportunity, imagined or not, a rampant, thieving den of vipers controlling and disallowing competing currencies, not to mention the pieces of shit with their claws in your wallets, bank accounts, and purses who work for the IRS.

Don't even fucking get me started about the alternative energy technologies being suppressed, specifically gravitics and over-unity magnetic devices.


"Is it possible to govern ourselves?"

We do, -DESPITE- the state. -DESPITE- the theft, the taxation, the oppression, the slavery.

As soon as this is seen for what it is, we will be free.

We have been, are, and will continue to govern ourselves, and when we finally throw this parasite off of our backs, we will thrive and prosper beyond any measure imaginable.
Pursue Truth.

This hard, tangible thing we call reality: the chair you sit upon, the computer, your beverage, cigarette, the air around you, is composed of 99.99999...% Space. Contrary to popular belief, energy-mass does not define the Space, but rather is defined -by- the Space. The all-permeating Space is a vibrating, infinitely dense medium of geometric discretion; a cube octahedral vector equillibrium. This is the One existence, and the only thing that exists, simultaneously. There is nothing else.

We do not live in a "big bang" universe.
We do not live in a "created" reality.
Our reality is a perpetually -creating- model, and It is aware.
Space is aware.
I AM aware.
"God", some call it.
fellowearthling

User ID: 19535851
New Zealand
07/11/2012 04:46 AM
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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
Bit of an oxymoron really.

Who can govern me?

I am my own law maker
or breaker.

No matter how many times
anyone writes anything
to the contrary
in legal statutes
or on stone tablets
I am my governor
as are you.
"When your eyes are incapable of tears,
your ears lose their sensitivity,
your voice is unable to wound and
your feet are cleansed in the blood
of your heart, then you may stand
in the presence of your master."

Loosely translated from:
"Light on the Path"
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 428255
Bulgaria
07/11/2012 04:56 AM
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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
Even if they were't, it's not a problem - lack of government is always better than an anti-human government like the ones in the current system.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 19539795
Spain
07/11/2012 05:16 AM
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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
What we need is a world with

minimal, de-centralized government (local community forums)
a true free market without government involvement
religion for those who want it without government interference
a sound currency backed by silver, gold, platinum or diamonds
banks provide security and sound loans for a small fee
private regulatory and logistic systems for common entities like roads, hospitals, and the common infrastructure in general without government involvement. All companies under free market rule - no government created monopolies.

no more

Federal Government
Fractional Reserve System
FIAT currencies
Central banking
Large interests on non-existent monies
Stock markets - get rid of them - use private investors' VC for industry only.

This is more or less where the U.S. was by the start of the 19th century - the most prosperous era ever.

This time we have the technology, know-how and will to pursue this change.

In a true free-market there are no monopolies, hidden agenda's or covert government necessary.

With local minimal government - including common based law enforcement you finally have your freedom back.

The community is self-governing. If for instance you would start a business that pollutes or hinders the community you would not be punished by government but by the people for they would boycott your products. If you had a business that would produce products that had harmful side effects to the consumer or environment you would not be punished by government but again by the community for they wold not buy your products and boycott you. Etc. Make whatever deals you want amongst yourselves - it does not matter. Corruption will weed itself out where needed. The end product which is consumed is what you will be held accountable for, and when your practices are unsound for whatever reason your business will suffer from lack of sales. It is as simple as that.

There will be poor - there will be rich. But this would be much more a matter of kick-in-the-butt choice than a cultural phenomenon. Want kids? Make damned sure you can provide for them - including their medical and education.

Every action and service has value and needs to be rewarded accordingly. There is no free lunch. If you wish to inhabit this planet you need to provide value which is rewarded. The more value you provide, the more you are rewarded.

Those who are exceptionally successful - the captains of industry - may choose to be charitable, but it is entirely voluntary.

There is no forced social model for the needy but for true emergency assistance which the community carries trough minimal taxes that go directly to the respective providers. The truly long-term impaired need to be taken care of by their parents or offspring. It is as simple as that.

Localize everything. Your community rules it's own people whereby no individual has the right to block/hinder/infringe on the freedom of another.

More of a direct democracy wrapped into a Republic.

Implement this and I guarantee you that the United States will be in as close a state of utopian bliss as you can be on this planet.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 18264929
Canada
07/11/2012 05:30 AM
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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
No, but they shouldn't be governed by thieves as well. All of this shit that's going on is to make everyone think democracy and the government in general is bad. Democracy is good if a country elects thousands of ministers who come from different societies, unions, institutions, religions and normal citizens representing tens of thousands of people, not one asshole representing a hundred other jerks who represent their fucking pockets which never seem to stop growing.
Tom
User ID: 19470331
China
07/11/2012 05:35 AM
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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
What a stupid question! Lol.

Who do you think was in charge before we decided to make certain people kings and queens, rofl.

I refuse to answer such a ridiculas question.

Government was born from conqest. We did just fine before war.

Government is bad and always will be bad, nothing ever good came from war including governments.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19427594


It wasn't a ridiculous question when the former English colonies declared their independence. There were a lot of people who did not want to get out from under the crown.

It wasn't a ridiculous question for the millions of Russians who died at the hands of Stalin and Lenin or the Germans or Italians who traded their freedom to give ultimate power to Hitler and Mussolini, or the millions of Chinese who died under Mao. They needed self governance but were slaughtered and or fooled into handing power over to those butchers because at some point they just gave up and submitted.

There are millions of Obama voters right now on food stamps because they believe that government can and should make all their decisions for them.

There are threads on this forum right now advocating the banning of gun ownership among other anti-freedom forced non-self-government antics.

A question that makes people think is not ridiculous even if it seems obvious on the surface. Most people don’t think for themselves. I’m just trying to get that ball rolling.
 Quoting: Resister


I agree with you.Millions of Chinese died under the invaders
more than mao.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 19445675
United Kingdom
07/11/2012 05:35 AM
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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
No.
It is a myth (and wishful thinking) that law and order can be maintained without some sort of system.
For those hoping for a breakdown in society - do you honestly think you would be living in some happy clappy la la land? Human nature has not changed that much. There will always be those who are lazy and greedy who would rather take it off YOU than earn it themselves. There will always be those who prey on others.
Right from the start people have banded together in tribes or communities of some sort - for social, financial and safety reasons. In the absence of a wider power, those communities have had to develop systems to mete out their own justice. It's just a smaller version of what most of us have now. That didn't make it perfect - there were still despots - just smaller despots!
Edit: You can see this still going on today - in particular where there are remote tribal communities.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 17689295
United States
07/11/2012 05:35 AM
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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
We can't do any worse......
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 19539795
Spain
07/11/2012 05:52 AM
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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
What we need is a world with

minimal, de-centralized government (local community forums)
a true free market without government involvement
religion for those who want it without government interference
a sound currency backed by silver, gold, platinum or diamonds
banks provide security and sound loans for a small fee
private regulatory and logistic systems for common entities like roads, hospitals, and the common infrastructure in general without government involvement. All companies under free market rule - no government created monopolies.

no more

Federal Government
Fractional Reserve System
FIAT currencies
Central banking
Large interests on non-existent monies
Stock markets - get rid of them - use private investors' VC for industry only.

This is more or less where the U.S. was by the start of the 19th century - the most prosperous era ever.

This time we have the technology, know-how and will to pursue this change.

In a true free-market there are no monopolies, hidden agenda's or covert government necessary.

With local minimal government - including common based law enforcement you finally have your freedom back.

The community is self-governing. If for instance you would start a business that pollutes or hinders the community you would not be punished by government but by the people for they would boycott your products. If you had a business that would produce products that had harmful side effects to the consumer or environment you would not be punished by government but again by the community for they wold not buy your products and boycott you. Etc. Make whatever deals you want amongst yourselves - it does not matter. Corruption will weed itself out where needed. The end product which is consumed is what you will be held accountable for, and when your practices are unsound for whatever reason your business will suffer from lack of sales. It is as simple as that.

There will be poor - there will be rich. But this would be much more a matter of kick-in-the-butt choice than a cultural phenomenon. Want kids? Make damned sure you can provide for them - including their medical and education.

Every action and service has value and needs to be rewarded accordingly. There is no free lunch. If you wish to inhabit this planet you need to provide value which is rewarded. The more value you provide, the more you are rewarded.

Those who are exceptionally successful - the captains of industry - may choose to be charitable, but it is entirely voluntary.

There is no forced social model for the needy but for true emergency assistance which the community carries trough minimal taxes that go directly to the respective providers. The truly long-term impaired need to be taken care of by their parents or offspring. It is as simple as that.

Localize everything. Your community rules it's own people whereby no individual has the right to block/hinder/infringe on the freedom of another.

More of a direct democracy wrapped into a Republic.

Implement this and I guarantee you that the United States will be in as close a state of utopian bliss as you can be on this planet.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19539795


I forgot to mention: local government is county based for in this model without any federal or country government.

With regards to resource distribution (raw materials) it is the industry itself that exchanges and imports where neccessary.
miserkocho

User ID: 17809430
Australia
07/11/2012 05:56 AM
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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
its not even a question.people are absolutely capable of self governance,the question is,IS SOCIETY TODAY AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE SELF GOVERNANCE IS POSSIBLE?.and its not but its a problem with the model, not with us. statism and corporatism creates what it needs to remain relevant.its a parasitic authoritarian system.




i apologize for my writing,i wanted to say much more.
searching for intelligent life in all its forms without judgement.
fellowearthling

User ID: 19535851
New Zealand
07/11/2012 05:59 AM
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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
its not even a question.people are absolutely capable of self governance,the question is,IS SOCIETY TODAY AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE SELF GOVERNANCE IS POSSIBLE?.and its not but its a problem with the model, not with us. statism and corporatism creates what it needs to remain relevant.its a parasitic authoritarian system.




i apologize for my writing,i wanted to say much more.
 Quoting: miserkocho


That's quite clearly readable,
near perfect spelling!

hf
"When your eyes are incapable of tears,
your ears lose their sensitivity,
your voice is unable to wound and
your feet are cleansed in the blood
of your heart, then you may stand
in the presence of your master."

Loosely translated from:
"Light on the Path"
Zejzl

User ID: 10845423
07/11/2012 06:07 AM
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Re: Are people capable of self governance?


good video, related to the topic

ladies and gentleman, i present to you: the philosophy of liberty! hf
No friends and yet no enemies
Absolutely free
No rats aboard the magic ship
Of perfect harmony

Now it begins, let it begin
Cleanup Time
Hey, cleanup time
Cleanup time
Well, well, well

However far we travel
Wherever we may roam
The center of the circle
Will always be our home
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 19541088
United Kingdom
07/11/2012 06:24 AM
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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
Of course we can... but any remnant of the current system has to be dissolved and removed.... as eloquently put by others... we cannot continue with this model... which is rigged for the faceless few at the top of the tree.

Transparency in all matters governmental, law and financial will solve much that is rancid in society.

If you prefer to be drained and regimented by self appointed criminal parasites... and have swallowed the mantra that humanity is useless then you should join the expelled criminal elite when the time comes, as is approaching.They will need whipping boys.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 19476652
United States
07/11/2012 06:25 AM
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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
Answer = NO

Major lesson God is trying to teach mankind.

Psalm 118:8 "It is better to trust in the Lord
Than to put confidence in man."

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17991847


Okay.

I put my trust in God.

Now what.

My country is STILL run by a gang of murdering criminals.

When is God going to come and do something about it?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 10039683
United States
07/11/2012 06:36 AM
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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
Yes, unless they live in a country that had slaves
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 506563


Had? That is actually the problem in its entirety! Ignorant people do not even know that they are STILL living in slavery! As long as government is "giving" its people food, shelter and shiny little things, those people are living in SLAVERY! They are living the illusion that they are free when in fact they are not.
miserkocho

User ID: 17809430
Australia
07/11/2012 06:46 AM
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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
its not even a question.people are absolutely capable of self governance,the question is,IS SOCIETY TODAY AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE SELF GOVERNANCE IS POSSIBLE?.and its not but its a problem with the model, not with us. statism and corporatism creates what it needs to remain relevant.its a parasitic authoritarian system.




i apologize for my writing,i wanted to say much more.
 Quoting: miserkocho


That's quite clearly readable,
near perfect spelling!

hf
 Quoting: fellowearthling


natural law created humans...we could good do a lot worse than follow a model based on nature.something diverse yet fully integrated.balanced,efficient and sustainable.nature being such a susccessful model,it is history.the current system is at war with nature trying to control it.trying to resolve the problems of expansionism and technology,with more expansionism and more technology.
searching for intelligent life in all its forms without judgement.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 19527132
Malaysia
07/11/2012 07:19 AM
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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
africanafricanafricanafricanafrican cannot
Heylel

User ID: 15777966
United States
07/11/2012 07:19 AM
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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
Sure some of us are, but as a whole, the human species in simply not there yet. But there are many of us angels out here who can show the way to others of self governance and mastery if given the chance. However, for now, we have the MedIa G-ds or should I say Dogs leading the sheople in to utter stupidity making any chance of self governance but a heavenly 8th age pipe dream at this moment. Hence, I voted No because if this were to happen at this moment, it would be a complete failure because people can barely govern their day to day affairs, let alone themselves or communities and that goes for most all current mayors and governors who we know are puppets not pulling their own strings.
Regards,

Moe

[link to GnosticWarrior.com] THERE IS A WAR FOR YOUR SOUL!

[link to www.LoanSafe.org] FIGHTING BIG BANKS!
Skin Suit

User ID: 4280163
United States
07/11/2012 07:37 AM
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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
i am

leave me the fuck alone.

and i'll leave you alone
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 19464932
United States
07/11/2012 07:41 AM
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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
No! Way to many stupid people with zero common sense.
jingoinigo

User ID: 1154368
United Kingdom
07/11/2012 07:59 AM
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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
each community decide its own fate,it's all about the
greatest good for the greatest number not the individual
as happens in our jewish/money controlled society

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