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Are people capable of self governance?

 
Muzzle

User ID: 6475987
United States
07/11/2012 08:06 AM
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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
Certain races in certain situations, yes.
Some races, never.
In his book, "Between Two Ages," Brzezinski wrote: "The technetronic era involves the gradual appearance of a more controlled society. Such a society would be dominated by an elite, unrestrained by traditional values."

MuzzleBreak
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 14962676
United States
07/11/2012 08:20 AM
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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
Yes, but as the Founders warned, they must be a people of morals and virtues. Without the underpinnings of morality, self-governance is impossible.

"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." Ben Franklin - April 17, 1787
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 19539795
Spain
07/11/2012 08:28 AM
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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
each community decide its own fate,it's all about the
greatest good for the greatest number not the individual
as happens in our jewish/money controlled society
 Quoting: jingoinigo


It seems in the UK more and more people are getting aware of how to become a "freeman on the land" under common law rule.

Initially this is indeed the way to go - create awareness and show the road to complete detachment from the current government and false democracy.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 19546740
Mexico
07/11/2012 08:47 AM
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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
"People who cannot restrain their own baser instincts, who cannot treat one another with civility, are not capable of self-government." - Chuck Colson
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4488404


That sums it up. Just look at the anger, hate and ignorance of half the posters here. Self governance...LOL! Many of these people would kill you for looking at them cross-eyed.
MuayThai

User ID: 16074607
Philippines
07/11/2012 08:59 AM
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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
If you leave people on their own they will crap in their own nest everytime they get the chance. I see people throw trash on the ground every day where they live, drive with four people on a motorcycle and not a one is wearing a helmet. Not to mention the complete free for all of the four wheeled vehicles here.

People do whatever they want to do, IF they can get away with it. Someone has to keep them in check.
macssam
User ID: 10244125
Belize
07/11/2012 09:01 AM
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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
government employees are unemployed thugs

+

Are people capable of self governance? Yes or no. Reasons why please.

An AC from here somewhere here in the United States posted the following comment today. “I'm absolutely convinced people are incapable of governing themselves.” A couple of centuries of self governance here in America had completely proven otherwise. Self governance is not only possible, it gave us the freedom to become most successful nation on the planet. BUT that doesn’t mean it will last forever.

People absolutely are capable of self governance... within the framework of a constitutional republic (which is rule by law) and by a people who adhere to basic moral standards (like the ones found in the Bill of Rights). John Adams, second president of the United States, was asked what kind of constitution we had. His reply was that, “the Constitution for the United States was written for a moral and upright people and is wholly inadequate for the governance of any other”. That is what makes self governance work. As a constitutional republic of “moral and upright people”, the United States was the world's most successful self-governing nation for a couple of centuries. We managed to remain free, save large portions of the rest of the world from tyranny, achieve the highest standard of living in the world, the highest levels of technology, and we were the world’s lone economic and military superpower.

Anyone upset about the use of past tense in that last paragraph needs to stop and take a candid look around you. We are not the moral nation we once were and we are paying the price for abandoning our founding principles. The lie of democracy has taken root in the immorality of hedonism. “If it feels good do it” has translated into “if you want it vote for it” no matter whether it is wrong or unconstitutional or violates the very founding principles of our nation. That is the difference between a functioning constitutional republic and the free-for-all lawlessness of a democracy.

To be self governing you first have to have and adhere to moral and upright principles. Sadly, most people just don’t have those any more. It isn’t the practice of self governance that has failed. It is the abandonment of the principles of that system that has failed.

More here: [link to line-in-the-sand.blogspot.com]
 Quoting: Resister
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 18792244
South Africa
07/11/2012 09:05 AM
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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
Self governance is only possible if accountability for self and full ownership of one's entire life is already present/desired. Therefore, first a paradigm shift is required that will provoke and promote the necessary motivation, inspiration and more beneficial outcomes to both individual and society...if this is to occur successfully.
Some people will adapt more easily than others.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 16251668
United States
07/11/2012 09:05 AM
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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
When my people ruled Judea, we ruled with self governance. The Commandments was VERY stitched in to our way of life though.

When you choose to live by the rules of men and not the rules of the Creator, you're society and worldly condition ends up like how it is today.

Oh well.
Epic Beard Guy
Constitutional Crusader

User ID: 1554083
United States
07/11/2012 09:11 AM

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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
People are obviously capable of self governance, but there are limits. As soon as people realize that they can vote to give themselves free money, the system starts to fail. If the people don't figure this out soon, we will see why democracies have always failed in the past. Fortunately, people that want free money are usually too lazy to vote.
Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.
"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
Muzzle

User ID: 6475987
United States
07/11/2012 09:14 AM
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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
People are obviously capable of self governance, but there are limits. As soon as people realize that they can vote to give themselves free money, the system starts to fail. If the people don't figure this out soon, we will see why democracies have always failed in the past. Fortunately, people that want free money are usually too lazy to vote.
 Quoting: Epic Beard Guy


That's why some folks are pushing "mandatory voting."
In his book, "Between Two Ages," Brzezinski wrote: "The technetronic era involves the gradual appearance of a more controlled society. Such a society would be dominated by an elite, unrestrained by traditional values."

MuzzleBreak
jrb366
User ID: 19481050
United States
07/11/2012 09:15 AM
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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
no - man is not capable of self governance. the majority of people follow the rest of the group - get their ideas and values from the rest of the group. if that were not 100% true then there would be no such thing as culture or national values.

They can appear to function as self governing under some systems - but that is because they have programmed to do so. They are still playing the part handed to them. They had to be instructed as to their civic duties and conditioned to maintain them.

The mass actually fears and hates the person who is self governing. They shun or even kill them.

You can talk about freedom all day long. But the sight of a free person causes them to react not unlike Donald Sutherland in the very last scene of Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
LanMan

User ID: 19456513
United States
07/11/2012 09:16 AM
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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
Left up to their own desires and passions people do what they will. Liberal humanists have always proclaimed that people are capable of self governance, yet the results of this human way of thinking always leads to increasing corruption. All one has to do is look at what goes on in this nation to prove it. Human lust and pride stands as a testament to the nature of human beings and how corrupt humans are. They actually proclaim they are the highest authority, that they have the right to determine their own destiny, without divine grace. Its not going to end well for those who think this way.
train

User ID: 3582303
United States
07/11/2012 09:18 AM

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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
They are until the liars and thieves, otherwise known as the banks, take it over.
"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the Government take care of him had better take a closer look at the American Indian."

~Henry Ford
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 19521204
United States
07/11/2012 09:19 AM
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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
Your asking the wrong question.

Natural law is capable of governing humans quite quite effectively. Man in a natural system is and complete self governance with no middle men.

that was the vision of the Founding fathers, the original idea set out by the creator
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 18414398
United States
07/11/2012 09:34 AM
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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
Answer = NO

Major lesson God is trying to teach mankind.

Psalm 118:8 "It is better to trust in the Lord
Than to put confidence in man."

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17991847


trust in the lord...LMFAO

so you trust in some mystical comic book character that is nothing more than a ridiculous childish fairytale?

So what has your GOD done for mankind? stopped war, ended poverty, save the innocent children starving and dying of untreatable diseases? Why your God can;t even protect children from being raped by the very priest that are "annointed" to be his shephards and manage his affairs.

You really believe that this invisible man in the sky would allow priest to rape children by the tens of thousands?


You fools believe in something that doesn't and never did exist.
fellowearthling

User ID: 19535851
New Zealand
07/11/2012 09:38 AM
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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
natural law created humans...we could good do a lot worse than follow a model based on nature.something diverse yet fully integrated.balanced,efficient and sustainable.nature being such a susccessful model,it is history.the current system is at war with nature trying to control it.trying to resolve the problems of expansionism and technology,with more expansionism and more technology.
 Quoting: miserkocho


And yet is not all
that is man made
natural too?

Are we not a part
of nature too?

To isolate that
which men make
from the whole
that is
does much
disservice
to earthlings
and our
contribution
to
that which is
imho
"When your eyes are incapable of tears,
your ears lose their sensitivity,
your voice is unable to wound and
your feet are cleansed in the blood
of your heart, then you may stand
in the presence of your master."

Loosely translated from:
"Light on the Path"
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1099185
United States
07/11/2012 09:42 AM
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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
To me, the problem is that even if the people know that the current form of govt is wrong, they will still fight tot the death for it when you take the goodies away. see? They don't want to lose what they have now so they will fight to keep it because it supports them. They don't care if it's bad, as long as the money comes in, they don't care. You take their money away and see what happens.
fellowearthling

User ID: 19535851
New Zealand
07/11/2012 09:55 AM
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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
To me, the problem is that even if the people know that the current form of govt is wrong, they will still fight tot the death for it when you take the goodies away. see? They don't want to lose what they have now so they will fight to keep it because it supports them. They don't care if it's bad, as long as the money comes in, they don't care. You take their money away and see what happens.
 Quoting: hawk8414


Jungle Justice...
"When your eyes are incapable of tears,
your ears lose their sensitivity,
your voice is unable to wound and
your feet are cleansed in the blood
of your heart, then you may stand
in the presence of your master."

Loosely translated from:
"Light on the Path"
Resister (OP)

User ID: 669410
United States
07/11/2012 09:55 AM

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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
Hey wow! Thanks for the karma pin mystery GLPer! thumbs



And thanks everyone else for the thoughtful responses so far pro and con. I know that people are capable of self governance, but the operative word there is "capable". Just because someone has the knowledge and ability doesn't mean they make they right decisions and implement them. That is the difference between knowledge and wisdom and there are more than enough examples of idiots and criminals to make one a doubter.

I will admit there there are certainly some people who are not capable of self governance within societal demands of law and order or even there own safety. That is what foundational law is for. That is why we have a constitution and that is why abandoning the foundational law of our constitution leads to tyranny.

Last Edited by Resister on 07/11/2012 09:59 AM
"God forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, & always, well informed... If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty... Let them take arms... What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. " - Thomas Jefferson in 1787
LanMan

User ID: 19456513
United States
07/11/2012 09:57 AM
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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
Your asking the wrong question.

Natural law is capable of governing humans quite quite effectively. Man in a natural system is and complete self governance with no middle men.

that was the vision of the Founding fathers, the original idea set out by the creator
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19521204


The "Founding fathers" where liberal humanists and deists. They practiced the "Religion of Humanity", or "Humanitarianism", which is opposed to the "doctrine of Christ". They believed that human nature was perfectible through man's own efforts, through the application of the "human way of thinking" to make adjustments in the moral sense of the nation. One can see and hear, plainly, that these adjustments are opposed to the Laws of God, and are in fact meant to usurp the Authority of the Most High God in a most rebellious way.
Resister (OP)

User ID: 669410
United States
07/11/2012 10:06 AM

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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
Your asking the wrong question.

Natural law is capable of governing humans quite quite effectively. Man in a natural system is and complete self governance with no middle men.

that was the vision of the Founding fathers, the original idea set out by the creator
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19521204


The "Founding fathers" where liberal humanists and deists. They practiced the "Religion of Humanity", or "Humanitarianism", which is opposed to the "doctrine of Christ". They believed that human nature was perfectible through man's own efforts, through the application of the "human way of thinking" to make adjustments in the moral sense of the nation. One can see and hear, plainly, that these adjustments are opposed to the Laws of God, and are in fact meant to usurp the Authority of the Most High God in a most rebellious way.
 Quoting: LanMan


That is just a flat out lie. Many of the signers of the declaration of Independence, writers of the Constitution, and first generation Presidents were devoted Christians. George Washington was a Christian. That doesn't mean they all were, but it is a lie to say that they were humanist and diests like Judeao-Christian beliefs had nothing to do with the founding of this country.
"God forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, & always, well informed... If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty... Let them take arms... What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. " - Thomas Jefferson in 1787
miserkocho

User ID: 17809430
Australia
07/11/2012 10:26 AM
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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
natural law created humans...we could good do a lot worse than follow a model based on nature.something diverse yet fully integrated.balanced,efficient and sustainable.nature being such a susccessful model,it is history.the current system is at war with nature trying to control it.trying to resolve the problems of expansionism and technology,with more expansionism and more technology.
 Quoting: miserkocho


And yet is not all
that is man made
natural too?

Are we not a part
of nature too?

To isolate that
which men make
from the whole
that is
does much
disservice
to earthlings
and our
contribution
to
that which is
imho
 Quoting: fellowearthling


absolutely but there is point of distinction between synthetic and natural.things that dont return back to a natural state.imho
searching for intelligent life in all its forms without judgement.
fellowearthling

User ID: 19535851
New Zealand
07/11/2012 10:40 AM
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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
natural law created humans...we could good do a lot worse than follow a model based on nature.something diverse yet fully integrated.balanced,efficient and sustainable.nature being such a susccessful model,it is history.the current system is at war with nature trying to control it.trying to resolve the problems of expansionism and technology,with more expansionism and more technology.
 Quoting: miserkocho


And yet is not all
that is man made
natural too?

Are we not a part
of nature too?

To isolate that
which men make
from the whole
that is
does much
disservice
to earthlings
and our
contribution
to
that which is
imho
 Quoting: fellowearthling


absolutely but there is point of distinction between synthetic and natural.things that dont return back to a natural state.imho
 Quoting: miserkocho


From a relative POV
the synthetic may
not seem natural.

What makes a synthetic
object or substance?

Show me an un-natural
constituant of anything
synthetic
and I will acknowledge
the distinction you
ascribe to.

peace
"When your eyes are incapable of tears,
your ears lose their sensitivity,
your voice is unable to wound and
your feet are cleansed in the blood
of your heart, then you may stand
in the presence of your master."

Loosely translated from:
"Light on the Path"
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1145428
United States
07/11/2012 10:43 AM
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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
We govern ourselves now, we just have parasites sucking our lifeblood from us as we do it, making it much more difficult.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 19383635
United States
07/11/2012 10:54 AM
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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
Yes, but we must learn to accept personal responsibility for our actions and choices.
 Quoting: Anonymous Cowherder


But that would lead to some people learning from thier mistakes and others exiting the gene pool when they don't. Can't have that now can we?
 Quoting: Resister


Of course we can! We have no right to interfere with people choosing to make mistakes. We can gently warn them, but after that their choices are their own, as are the consequences.

We are NOT our brothers/sisters keeper. They are not ours. We make choices and deal with what happens. Any government, or person, that interferes with that human imperative violates the principle of free will, and the essence of this universe.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 19512303
United States
07/11/2012 10:55 AM
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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
Yes and no. If we were, we would not be in the me SS we are I'm today. We could band together and write in a third party candidate that is not financed by TPTB, but we don't.

Humanity is not yet self aware enough of psychology and how easily most of us are programmable.

Heck, this is a conspiracy/alt news site and it is filled with brainwashed people. TPTB even like to make sure they have automatons in the conspiracy movement to gunk up the machinery of it.

A Perfect example is the right/left paradigm.

Thomas Payne and the founders were off to a good start. They set up freedom but within the framework of it following preagreed upon principles. Not complicated one, but ones that kept mob rule from overthrowing things.

The only part of the old testament I find impressive are the ten commandments. I don't buy their origin, but the founders had to have been inspired by their intuitive and broad ability to eliminate/curb many bad aspects do society, while still leaving a lot room for personal freedom.

I personally feel the constitution was an unfinished project. It was almost perfect, yet faulty because it was created by wealthy, aristocratic slave owners. Basically, their greed left a breech in the constitution. Basically, it was never greed proofed.

They also never knew of psychology as we do and the power media would have in the technological age. Otherwise, they would have limited the influence of corporate money more specifically in the document.

Humanity cannot be freed, but must be ruled by people/ rules created by people who allows them to live free. We are a pack animal, heavily influenced by domination and submission, and gravitate towards an alpha. Because we do not acknowledge this, we end up with psychopaths as the alphas.

Basically, humanity needs to acknowledge it cannot lead itself, but it does have the power to choose who it submits to. Since submission is seen as a weakness in modern society, we do not see the power someone giving power has. Think Kate Upton, she has power because she is sought after, but has the power to choose who she submits to. She has the same power that opium has over addicts. Addicts use the drug, but the drug rules the addict.

Humanity and it's ability to become a mob makes us the ultimate Kate Upton. We can kill on a grand scale for who we submit to. We can agree to constructs that keep us poor and give them all the money. TPTB are addicted to us and they will never tell us that it is us, the submissive that has the power. They cannot be the alpha without our permission, our mandate. What I just pointed out is what keeps them up at night. What I just pointed out is the key to waking up.

We like to believe we are all little alphas and we can collectively lead, but this is not true. TPTB have tricked us into believing we are all little alphas. We are all on the verge of being rock stars, millionaires, super models, etc.

People were once happy knowing they were not in charge, but had a skill that the pack really needed. That is where they gained their alpha fix. The carpenter was submissive, but not if the non-carpenters needed woodwork.

Women also saw the power in their submission and drew power from the fact they produced life and intoxicated their husband. That in many ways their husbands were eternally little boys and that in many aspects of the family, they were alpha. I am glad women have been able to branch out beyond homemaker, because they can be excellent leaders, but feminism taught them to be ashamed of their attraction to being sexually submissive to men. Am I an evil sexist for saying this? Then tell me why American women are all gaga for the '50 shades of grey' book series right now?

Humanity needs to reevaluate things and to once again become comfortable with our true nature. That is the only way to "freedom".
Daryl Dixon

User ID: 19550155
United States
07/11/2012 11:25 AM
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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
26.3% of the people are not.
Crossbows: For when guns are too loud, and knives are too personal.

"When it started, it was just a couple weird stories on the news...and then it, it was so quick..." - Shane Walsh
Daryl Dixon

User ID: 19550155
United States
07/11/2012 11:28 AM
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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
Your asking the wrong question.

Natural law is capable of governing humans quite quite effectively. Man in a natural system is and complete self governance with no middle men.

that was the vision of the Founding fathers, the original idea set out by the creator
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19521204


The "Founding fathers" where liberal humanists and deists. They practiced the "Religion of Humanity", or "Humanitarianism", which is opposed to the "doctrine of Christ". They believed that human nature was perfectible through man's own efforts, through the application of the "human way of thinking" to make adjustments in the moral sense of the nation. One can see and hear, plainly, that these adjustments are opposed to the Laws of God, and are in fact meant to usurp the Authority of the Most High God in a most rebellious way.
 Quoting: LanMan


The "Founders were Deists" is a common lie used in an attempt to re-write history:
[link to www.patheos.com]
Crossbows: For when guns are too loud, and knives are too personal.

"When it started, it was just a couple weird stories on the news...and then it, it was so quick..." - Shane Walsh
EvenT6HorizoN

User ID: 12833553
United States
07/11/2012 11:30 AM
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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
What a stupid question! Lol.

Who do you think was in charge before we decided to make certain people kings and queens, rofl.

I refuse to answer such a ridiculas question.

Government was born from conqest. We did just fine before war.

Government is bad and always will be bad, nothing ever good came from war including governments.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19427594


I agree with you.

But I believe, at this point, people have a mind set to make this impossible.
"I collapsed a lung, screaming at the face of ignorance. I fell victim to the excuse of hatered." - Crater

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" - Voltaire

"Some feel the rain, others just get wet" - Bob Marley
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 2134890
Sweden
07/11/2012 11:33 AM
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Re: Are people capable of self governance?
white people, yes
 Quoting: 508527


racist much?

Look, I enjoy a good discussion even if I disagree, but that crap has no place in this thread.
 Quoting: Resister


what if he is right?

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