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How this gov't destroyed a few hundred businesses and jobs a week ago and you never heard a thing.

 
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How this gov't destroyed a few hundred businesses and jobs a week ago and you never heard a thing.
I smoke...too bad if you don't like that. It's my choice and also respect people who don't and their personal space etc, Don't bother telling me what's wrong about it, I'm well aware of the downsides, just like anyone who smokes is, so save the "it's bad for you" crapola.

So with that being said...

Back in 2009 the govt saw fit to levy some heavy punisher type taxes on Cigarettes and other tobacco products. This was the second order of Business for the 111th congress in 2009. HR.2, A 33 billion dollar tax increase which fell hardest on the lower to middles class...terms I hate btw....but anyway since your friends in the govt are always looking out for the little guy...I guess this was just another example of you ain't the kind of "little guy" we like, so screw you.

The bill was the "SCHIP" Children’s Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act of 2009. The History of this program was that it more or less expands Medicaid to children whose familes made too much money to normally qualify. The program was around since 1997 and was funded for 10 years. The cost was 40 billion over those 10 years. When the Democrats took control of congress in 2006 they wanted to expand the program as well as refud it. GW Bush, president at the time, said no and promised to veto a bill expanding it. His position was that expanding the program greatly expanded the federalization of health care. Congress passed a bill refunding and expanding the program, Bush vetoed it and congress attemted to over ride his veto, they failed, by 13 votes. There was a stop gap funding measure later passed which mantained the program at current costs for 2 years.

When the new congress took over in 2009 the second bill they voted on which was the SCHIP bill, it passed and Obama signed it into law feb 4th. The bill included a tax increases on small cigars of 2,653%. "roll your own" loose tobacco 2,159%, Cigarettes 158%. There were a couple of tobacco products that survived the huge increase relatively unscathed. One of the products was "Pipe tobacco". The tax per pound was indeed increased over 150%, but the actual cost per lb was a mere $1.10 a pound going up to $2.83 per pound...one pound of tobacco is a lot of tobacco, one full carton of cigarettes contains less than one half of a pound. The new taxes went into effect Apr 1 2009.


So now you know a bit of the history about the large tax increase on tobacco and cigarettes.

Here are the bills and some articles where you can read/learn more if you want to. I even included one from "socialist worker .org" fair and balanced comrades!...lol!


[link to taxfoundation.org]

[link to www.govtrack.us]

[link to socialistworker.org]

[link to www.medpagetoday.com]

[link to www.nytimes.com]

The reason I told you about the SCHIP act and the tax increases is this; The lower tax per pound on pipe tobacco had the affect of spawning an entire cottage industry.

Several months ago a "tobacco shop" sprung up for business near where I live. Someone told me about it and that they had some sort of deal on cigs that was maybe half the price of the store brands, which I was likely bitching about at that time. It was some sort of make your own cigs thing which I was not real interested in, but they had only heard about it and they had heard it was different than the old time roll your own way, so I said I'd check it out.

I went to the place, it was pretty busy and it was only open for a couple of weeks. The way their setup worked was this. They sold tobacco, sold the roll your own "RYO" tubes that were just an empty cigarette with a filter, just like any store brand. They had a couple of pretty healthy sized machines that were for rolling your own cigarettes.

The store rented you the use of their machine, cost maybe 5 bucks. They sold you the tobacco, sold you the "tubes", then you went and loaded the tubes into a magazine in the machine, dumped the tobacco into a hopper and then hit "Start" and the automated machine chugged away and made your cigarettes. Not nearly as fast as an automated line like a big tobacco company's equiptment could do, but not too slow either, maybe took 10-15 minutes to make a whole carton, 200 cigs. Total cost for everything? about half the price of the store brands.

They also had other selling points, there were no "additives" in this tobacco like the big tobacco brands, they also didn't have to use that "Fire safety" paper which tastes horrible and is another source of chemicals etc etc and with just plain smoking being harmful enough?...who needs to make it even worse.

I could see right away these little RYO machine stores had a good thing that would likely take off, as long as the cigarettes were good...which they were. I began to get my cigs from them all the time and the little tobacco store got busier, they added 2 more machines and they were always pretty busy.

I usually tried to go there when they were not real crowded, usually closer to their closing time, after 8pm anyway. I got to know some of the people there after some weeks, I'm a personable guy, plus I can blab a LOT...:) The people that worked there were mostly younger people and we'd bullshit about all sorts of topics, make jokes etc etc laugh and generally just hang out, sometimes other people there too would join in the conversations and it was a sort of local good time type atmosphere as we'd sit and take the cigs the machines chugged out and put them in a box.

Last Sunday I went there and there was a sign on the door that said something like, "Due to a new govt regulation, our machines are no longer in production, open Monday-Friday" They were open 7 days a week...

So next day I went back and there was one person working there, the machines were pushed against a wall and shrink wraped. I asked them what happened and they said they were done, there was a new regulation that defacto put them out of business, the girl there didn't really know what it was exactly about, but she was there to sell off whatever stock they had and then she'd be gone too. I asked how many people were working there, she said six at least steady a couple more when they could get people, now 2 and that was only going to last a week or two at the most.

So I looked into it...

As part of the transportation bill H.R. 4348, the Moving Ahead for Progress in the 21st Century Actor MAP act there was an admendment known as the "Baucus amendment" from Senator MAX BAUCUS D. Montana...(asshole) that was put into the house bill when the deadline was near. The ryder also known as the RYO ryder would require all the owners of these RYO machines to register as "Manufacturers" which is a huge and prohibitive cost among other regulations that it would carry along with it.

Omama signed the bill into law on January 3rd...

The bill also contained the politicaly contested item about the student loan rates increasing. The Republicans in the house wimped out because they had little time to rehash and argue the measure and because the optics of the bill would have been used to vilify them in the press...besides...it was almost vacation time. The Baucus RYO ryder was supposed to have been pushed by the "National association of convience stores", as they claimed that the tobacco stores were cutting into their sales, but they've also been noted as pawns of big tobacco before.

Senator Max Baucus has also recieved donations from the "Altria Group"...Parent company of Phillip Moris...tobacco giant.

The company that sold these machines sold over a thousand of them. People could invest in one or more at around $30,000 each and pretty much have a turn key entrepreneurial busness up and running and making proft in almost no time ...

So with the stroke of the pen from the president and a little amendment in a massive bill from a sentator that has not a single one of these machines in his own state, a few thousand jobs get vanished and we hardly heard a word about it. The company that makes the machines won't be selling anymore in the US...and it was a US company...a little start up cottage industry goes silently into the night regulated and taxed out of existence.

Another one bites the dust...




Some articles and references.

[link to www.forbes.com]

[link to www.cspnet.com]


[link to www.opensecrets.org]
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Ooooh, see the fire is sweepin' Our very streets today...
Burns like a red coal carpet, Mad bulls lost the way...
War, children, it's just a shot away...it's just a shot away....
Phoenix 2012

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07/17/2012 02:45 AM
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Re: How this gov't destroyed a few hundred businesses and jobs a week ago and you never heard a thing.
The freedom we knew as America is already over and gone man. Now we sit back and watch it unfold I guess.
“Do not pray for an easy life, pray for the strength to endure a difficult one.”
- Bruce Lee
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07/17/2012 02:56 AM

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Re: How this gov't destroyed a few hundred businesses and jobs a week ago and you never heard a thing.
The freedom we knew as America is already over and gone man. Now we sit back and watch it unfold I guess.
 Quoting: Phoenix 2012


Things cannot go on like this...if there's one we see through circumstance?...there's probably 50 more that we don't.
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Ooooh, see the fire is sweepin' Our very streets today...
Burns like a red coal carpet, Mad bulls lost the way...
War, children, it's just a shot away...it's just a shot away....
Phoenix 2012

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07/17/2012 03:02 AM
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Re: How this gov't destroyed a few hundred businesses and jobs a week ago and you never heard a thing.
The freedom we knew as America is already over and gone man. Now we sit back and watch it unfold I guess.
 Quoting: Phoenix 2012


Things cannot go on like this...if there's one we see through circumstance?...there's probably 50 more that we don't.
 Quoting: SHR


Absolutely there are 50 under the radar that we don't catch. I missed this one and I'm glad you posted it.

I tell ya man the future is going to be a much different place than I ever imagined.

It's nice to see ya too :)

Maybe the zombie apocalypse will save us!
“Do not pray for an easy life, pray for the strength to endure a difficult one.”
- Bruce Lee
grasptheuniverse

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07/17/2012 03:14 AM
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Re: How this gov't destroyed a few hundred businesses and jobs a week ago and you never heard a thing.
Holy shit, Im not a smoker but that story about the little business closing down is so bad. Sounded like a nice store and good for people who want to get reasonble price smokes. Where is the freedom these days. This can only get worse.
caz
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07/17/2012 03:26 AM

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Re: How this gov't destroyed a few hundred businesses and jobs a week ago and you never heard a thing.
Holy shit, Im not a smoker but that story about the little business closing down is so bad. Sounded like a nice store and good for people who want to get reasonble price smokes. Where is the freedom these days. This can only get worse.
 Quoting: grasptheuniverse


It's a shame.
If we keep on this path that keeps suffucating these little types of start ups?...things will get worse, much worse..this sort of thing just corrodes the spirit of any country.

See your little business???...You didn't start that on your own, you aren't smart...you think you work hard? HAHAHAHA!...fuck you...watch what I can do...
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Ooooh, see the fire is sweepin' Our very streets today...
Burns like a red coal carpet, Mad bulls lost the way...
War, children, it's just a shot away...it's just a shot away....
Anonymous Coward
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07/17/2012 03:52 AM
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Re: How this gov't destroyed a few hundred businesses and jobs a week ago and you never heard a thing.
well i smoked for about 6 years...glad i quit.

this shows you that the smoking tax and health care bill go hand in hand. they both suck.i don't like all them taxes on it...i believe the big tax they tried out here in ca. failed

a lot of non smokers voted against it

i believe they eventually will eliminate cigarettes though
Phoenix 2012

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07/17/2012 03:57 AM
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Anonymous Coward

i believe they eventually will eliminate cigarettes though
 Quoting:


See aforementioned zombie apocalypse..lol

Last Edited by Phoenix 2012 on 07/17/2012 03:57 AM
“Do not pray for an easy life, pray for the strength to endure a difficult one.”
- Bruce Lee
pool
Netizen Ribbonmind

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07/17/2012 08:06 AM

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Re: How this gov't destroyed a few hundred businesses and jobs a week ago and you never heard a thing.
[link to www.thetobaccoseed.com]

There has to be a way, buy one of their machines.
"The earth is mother of us all, for she is just; but you, because you are unjust have pretended that she is your mother alone; and if you do not stop, I will not permit you to remain upon her."

[link to www.livius.org]
Anonymous Coward
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07/17/2012 08:13 AM
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Re: How this gov't destroyed a few hundred businesses and jobs a week ago and you never heard a thing.
The thing about this TAX is that it was one of the first things OBAMA signed into law but then for years he kept saying he never raised taxes!!!

Not only raised taxes but raised them on mostly the poor and uneducated! This is the group that makes up the largest percentage of smokers.
SnakeAirlines

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07/17/2012 08:16 AM

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Re: How this gov't destroyed a few hundred businesses and jobs a week ago and you never heard a thing.
I quit cigs about a decade ago, but if you are into them, doesn't bother me in the least to be around them...

Shit like this pisses me off to no end...When I did smoke, I was doing about 60-80 hand rolled a day...Used to be Drum, and then when that got sold (and the blend changed), I moved to Samson (which was the old Drum blend)...

Loose tobacco used to fly under the radar...Then the idiots figured they were missing out on a cash cow, and taxed it through the roof...Then people started calling it 'Pipe Tobacco' to get around the taxes...

NOW the fuckers have done it to Cigars too...

Vermont has a 95% tax on cigars...I shit you not...

A $4 cigar automatically costs $8 here...
"Hold my cat while I bring in my tomato plant. That chemtrail looks like an earthquake chemtrail"

deanoZXT-07/20/2014 07:48 PM
Justalittlebad

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07/17/2012 08:28 AM
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Re: How this gov't destroyed a few hundred businesses and jobs a week ago and you never heard a thing.
It's not about public health. It's always about the money. Bastards. I smoke too.

Last Edited by Justalittlebad on 07/17/2012 08:29 AM
Justalittlebad/more or less
Anonymous Coward
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07/17/2012 08:34 AM
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Re: How this gov't destroyed a few hundred businesses and jobs a week ago and you never heard a thing.
Yo SHR,

Smoking is bad for you. STFU.
SnakeAirlines

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07/17/2012 08:36 AM

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Re: How this gov't destroyed a few hundred businesses and jobs a week ago and you never heard a thing.
Yo SHR,

Smoking is bad for you. STFU.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 828523


It may very well be, but it is not the Goobermints place to tell you what you can and can't do with a legal product...

And to tax the shit out of it proves that they want to keep it legal...
"Hold my cat while I bring in my tomato plant. That chemtrail looks like an earthquake chemtrail"

deanoZXT-07/20/2014 07:48 PM
Vision Thing

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07/17/2012 08:46 AM

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Re: How this gov't destroyed a few hundred businesses and jobs a week ago and you never heard a thing.
I saw something similar happen years back when I was in the garden center business. We were getting a line of fertilizers made by a couple of guys out of Colorado, it was several formulations of bat guano, a liquid kelp/fish, and some minerals, all packed up in coffee bags with a hand drawn label.

It was a great line and very popular with our customers, if you've never tried bat guano plants really like it.

A guy from the state Agriculture department came in, this was Minnesota. He took a package of each of their products for testing, and told us the line wasn't registered for sale in the state of Minnesota.

To get registered they would need to pay however many hundred dollars per product in their line, it would have been several thousand dollars just to sell in MN, no way a small start up fertilizer business from out of state would be able to afford that.

So we had to sell out that good line and quit selling it and try to find a substitute, we went all the way to Chicago to a trade show to try to find something suitable to replace it, never did find anything our customers liked quite as well.

It was completely obvious at the time that the reason for the high registration fees was to eliminate the competition for big companies like Miracle Gro. They said it was to pay for the testing so the customer would know for sure if the counts on the package (10-15-10, etc) were accurate. But other states do not have fees anything like as high. Maybe Wisconsin, but some states it would be like ten bucks or something, not many hundreds of dollars.
Vision Thing

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07/17/2012 08:50 AM

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Re: How this gov't destroyed a few hundred businesses and jobs a week ago and you never heard a thing.
Oh yeah and this taxing of tobacco really pisses me off, it's a subject I have to stay away from because it makes me so mad. Govt are total hypocrites to preach about how bad smoking is, and then turn around and make way more money off it than the tobacco companies do. Fuckers. I smoked for 28 years. I will never be anti-smoking, I just can't smoke myself anymore. It is not as bad for you as people make out. Everyone has turned into such a bunch of wimps, how did this happen?
Wilde_at_Heart

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07/17/2012 08:56 AM

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Re: How this gov't destroyed a few hundred businesses and jobs a week ago and you never heard a thing.
Holy shit, Im not a smoker but that story about the little business closing down is so bad. Sounded like a nice store and good for people who want to get reasonble price smokes. Where is the freedom these days. This can only get worse.
 Quoting: grasptheuniverse


It's a shame.
If we keep on this path that keeps suffucating these little types of start ups?...things will get worse, much worse..this sort of thing just corrodes the spirit of any country.

See your little business???...You didn't start that on your own, you aren't smart...you think you work hard? HAHAHAHA!...fuck you...watch what I can do...
 Quoting: SHR


Government has been doing what it can to favor big business in one way or another for thirty years at least. It doesn't really matter which 'side' either; some lobbyists just buy both.

It's worse at the City level. Think of how many US towns and cities have boarded up rotting downtowns - with beautiful buildings and nice river or lake fronts - and yet they continue to build further and further out into the sticks. Everything is along the interstate so that passersby don't even bother going right into the towns.
New buildings get tax incentives, rehabbing old ones don't. When was the last time a municipality ever said 'no' to a new walmart Supercenter?

Cheap credit means that the big chains can crowd out any mom and pop business too since they can get by on razor-thin margins that smaller businesses simply cannot afford. They don't have the volume, nor can they usually get the super-cheap loans larger businesses can either.

Last Edited by Silk Spectre on 07/17/2012 08:57 AM
Anonymous Coward
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07/17/2012 08:56 AM
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Re: How this gov't destroyed a few hundred businesses and jobs a week ago and you never heard a thing.
Yo SHR,

Smoking is bad for you. STFU.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 828523


Ironically, these smoke shops provide a cleaner form of cig, just natural tobacco, cheaper.
 Quoting: Super Bowl Dave


Yep, I was buying them too. Knew they'd find a way to shut them down, and that it wouldn't take long.
Anonymous Coward
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07/17/2012 08:56 AM
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Re: How this gov't destroyed a few hundred businesses and jobs a week ago and you never heard a thing.
right SHR it's a crock of shit. More taxes on rolling machines, thats real fucking brillant bushpunchangryputin Why is a pack of smokes 10$ here and a buck fifty in Nicaragua ....meh
Anonymous Coward
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07/17/2012 09:08 AM
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Re: How this gov't destroyed a few hundred businesses and jobs a week ago and you never heard a thing.
Holy shit, Im not a smoker but that story about the little business closing down is so bad. Sounded like a nice store and good for people who want to get reasonble price smokes. Where is the freedom these days. This can only get worse.
 Quoting: grasptheuniverse


It's a shame.
If we keep on this path that keeps suffucating these little types of start ups?...things will get worse, much worse..this sort of thing just corrodes the spirit of any country.

See your little business???...You didn't start that on your own, you aren't smart...you think you work hard? HAHAHAHA!...fuck you...watch what I can do...
 Quoting: SHR


Yes he (Obama) is blatantly in our faces. He's an arrogant, treasonous commie fascist usurper.
Oh.... fascist and commie are interchangeable!
Bastard!!!! is interchangeable with arrogant too!

He is doing what he was created to do.

Takin' care of business he is!

Bastard!!!!
FatalW1shes

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07/17/2012 09:08 AM
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Re: How this gov't destroyed a few hundred businesses and jobs a week ago and you never heard a thing.
10 + threads on this site with 3 pinned

[link to www.godlikeproductions.com]


Yeah we heard all about it...several times.

Where were you?
TeamDub

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07/17/2012 09:11 AM
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Re: How this gov't destroyed a few hundred businesses and jobs a week ago and you never heard a thing.
Thanks (I think) OP - the hits just keep on coming with this regime.

5 stars and Karma!
Sammie

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07/17/2012 09:14 AM

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Re: How this gov't destroyed a few hundred businesses and jobs a week ago and you never heard a thing.
Outrageous !

This is just another example of unnecessary government legislation at the expense of the people who they are supposed to represent.

This is about wealth consolidation. The big cock slobbering lobbyists from the mega corps, who can not tolerate any competition and have deep pockets to bribe their hired help (politicians), are yet again exercising their powers by means of conflicting interests to ensure their monopolies through bullshit legislation.

Government doesn't exist. The only thing alive and well is parasitic zombie corporations who have infested every square inch of the so called "offices of representatives for the US citizens".

The only representation left is "for the corporations and by the corporations", because they are all being bribed with cash, jobs, and any means necessary. In essence, they are all on various and numerous corporate payrolls.


Disgusting but not a revelation to say the least, unfortunately.

There is an online site where you can ( last I checked), purchase smokes, even name brand ones, for half the cost of buying them locally (give or take). For instance, Camel's were selling for 28 bucks a cartoon the last time i looked. You have to pay shipping but you can purchase several cartoons for the same shipping costs as only one cartoon. It's a significant savings compared to what they charge around here.
They also have the added bonus of not containing the mandated chemicals to prevent fires....whatever that horrible crap is.

I don't have the site off hand but I will look it up and post the link in a bit.

Unfortunately it won't help the people have lost their successful business and their means to earn paper in order to survive.

Corporations and the whores who sell themselves to serve their ever increasing gluttenous appetites, will surly have to answer someday for the crime of sacrificing living human beings to the souless and unliving constructs of unsustainable and unstable illusions.... Created, no less, by ...what else......legislation, of course.

It's just down right insanity that the human population is, not only enslaved by a legal construct built on unsound and unsustainable principals, but worse yet these constructed entities are using more legislation to prevent the slaves from even earning their fabricated paper which they mandated as a necessity simple to survive.

Forget the A.I. Machines wiping out mankind in some future cyber world. The human race is already at war for its survival against the living undead.
The genocide of the species may very well come from starving us out of existence through the legal system.

Soon enough, the virtual sea of laws will, in short, make the very act of survival an illegal act.
"Beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow".  ~Aesop


"Once in a dream I saw a snake swallowing its own tail, it swallowed and swallowed until it got halfway round, and there it stopped and there it stayed, it was stuffed with its own self. Some fix, that.
We only have ourselves to go on, and it’s enough…" -Charles Bukowski



"Grasping at things can only yield one of two results:
Either the thing you are grasping at disappears, or you yourself disappear.
It is only a matter of which occurs first."
-Goenka
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07/17/2012 09:19 AM

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Re: How this gov't destroyed a few hundred businesses and jobs a week ago and you never heard a thing.
right SHR it's a crock of shit. More taxes on rolling machines, thats real fucking brillant bushpunchangryputin Why is a pack of smokes 10$ here and a buck fifty in Nicaragua ....meh
 Quoting: Acid Trip






There was one here too, not anymore.

I'd pretty much have to quit smoking if I lived in Canada.
Every time I went across the border I'd pay the tax on like 5 cartoons to bring them in and when those were gone...it was time to get the hell out! Beer $10 a six pack...it was just WRONG! Canada was the first time I ever put over $100 in a gas tank in my life...it was less than $50 in the states for the same. All these socialist programs have a price tag, and the US is about to figure that out...the hard way.
I don't know who the fuck asked for this shit, but we got it, Toyota!



Last Edited by SPUD on 07/17/2012 09:24 AM
"Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most"
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"May your chains rest lightly upon you..."
CoiNmaN

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07/17/2012 09:21 AM
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Re: How this gov't destroyed a few hundred businesses and jobs a week ago and you never heard a thing.
i smoke and have for 33 years
and the damn prices are getting outrageous

and it is very sad the way this gov
is doing
why dont they tax beer and liquor
2009lincolncent.com
Anonymous Coward
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07/17/2012 09:25 AM
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Re: How this gov't destroyed a few hundred businesses and jobs a week ago and you never heard a thing.
very interesting post and good links, etc.

I wonder if there is some loophole to this "law". Sounds like a very good investment for 30K...I'd do it...and lots of empty retail space around here.
Anonymous Coward
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07/17/2012 09:26 AM
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Re: How this gov't destroyed a few hundred businesses and jobs a week ago and you never heard a thing.
The freedom we knew as America is already over and gone man. Now we sit back and watch it unfold I guess.
 Quoting: Phoenix 2012


^this.

But thanks for sharing, I had no idea this went down. They genuinely do not want us to be self sufficient - it breaks the status quo
Evil_Twin

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07/17/2012 09:28 AM

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Re: How this gov't destroyed a few hundred businesses and jobs a week ago and you never heard a thing.
Yep. I know of 3 of those stores that all closed up recently in this area. They were all thriving, too, from what I'd seen. I've been a pipe smoker for years, but my brother smokes cigs, and he'd buying those RYOs for about a year.

Now, he's back to buying the retail shit and spending twice as much on them.
Hellbilly
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07/17/2012 09:37 AM
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Re: How this gov't destroyed a few hundred businesses and jobs a week ago and you never heard a thing.
anyone know the name/manufacturer of these machines?

It seems to me that the federal law would not apply if the smokes were not exported from the state. A simple waiver signed by the purchaser that he/she was producing for their own consumption and would not transport across state lines would suffice and place the operation firmly under state jurisdiction.

Looks like a bluff to me.
YaRight

User ID: 1219589
United States
07/17/2012 09:56 AM
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Re: How this gov't destroyed a few hundred businesses and jobs a week ago and you never heard a thing.
This was on the MSM on a morning show about a week ago…. It just goes to show you how the money flows and how they really don’t give a shit about jobs. One of those roll your own places closed up here also
The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 17688927
United States
07/17/2012 09:57 AM
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Re: How this gov't destroyed a few hundred businesses and jobs a week ago and you never heard a thing.
Yes. This is called:

NO ONE FUCKS WITH THE GOVERNMENTS MONEY


Just like the Mafia!

Yayyyyy!

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