Marcion said the God of the Old Testament was evil and not the same as the God of the New Testament

From link:Marcion affirmed Jesus to be the saviour sent by the Heavenly Father, and Paul as His chief apostle. In contrast to the nascent Christian church, Marcion declared that Christianity was distinct from and in opposition to Judaism. Marcion did not claim that the Jewish Scriptures were false. Instead, Marcion asserted that they were to be read in an absolutely literal manner, thereby developing an understanding that YHVH was not the same god spoken of by Jesus,

From link:According to Marcion, the god of the Old Testament, whom he called the Demiurge, the creator of the material universe, is a jealous tribal deity of the jewish people, whose law represents legalistic reciprocal justice and who punishes mankind for its sins through suffering and death. Contrastingly, the god that Jesus professed is an altogether different being, a universal god of compassion and love who looks upon humanity with benevolence and mercy

gimme green and this gets pinned

You missed the entire point of the old testament. In a very fundamental way. Wow.

Even without the book of Enoch, the message is still discernible, if you have eyes to see and all that. Sure, it's ethnocentric but seriously if you can't see past that it's your fault. Oh well, the fucked up part about knowing how the future goes is that you know you can't change it (or would even want to).

But read about the wheat, or the brides maids, or the fig tree and tell me again about Jesus being all nice. You are dead fucking wrong, pal.

Thanks for the input

many have forgotten about Marcionism..

It rocked the very notion of what was considered "truth"

I think this is a fascinating subject..

Revolutionary concept

I usually don't post in religious threads, but this one is really interesting.

What is your opinion on this?
Are you aware that this is the basis for gnosticism?

I have no opinion on the god of the new testament, but one thing i am sure of: the dude from the old testament was not the all-creator, but more likely an alien overlord, a service to self entitiy or as you named it "demiurge"

Marcion named it demiurge..

He said it was the creator of the material world..I dont think he meant of Creation itself though

That is a core-gnostic teaching.
And it's deep. Oh so deep :)
He's the creator of the material, but not the creator of creation, which implies that the material world is an illusion inside of creation (if you can follow me?)

Anyways, i don't want to derail your thread. Yes, I believe that too, YHVH is not the Guy from the new testament.

Its a fascinating concept..

and had a relatively huge following..with many Marcionite Churches

Isn't it kinda obvious? The old god had a violent temper and taught through penalty, while the new one is a forgiving, loving guy.

Either it's two different entities or the guy is a schizophrenic.

Marcion? Hellor?

My Father, whom you (jewish people) claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and keep his word. John 8:55

The Law and the Prophets remain until John. Since then, the good news about the kingdom of God has been proclaimed, and everyone entering it is under attack. Luke 16:16

Talk normal. Same God. The difference is thst the Messia (Jesus) already came and the people practicing the 'Law" are still waiting for him to come the first time. We (christians) having received Christ the first time, and are no longer under the old law, but abide through Jesus to God (our Father),by Grace through the Holy Spirit sent back by Jesus after he left Earth spiritually post crucifiction. so abide with Christ through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit within you! The Isrelis, that choose the religion of Jewish are also a choosen people of our God. Deal...Shush up, or teach, but don;t deceive or discourage..please..:)

Coachroach poison is sugar mixed with borax.

Wild Honey huh? MMMKKK?

YALDABAOTH

The words are not mine, buddy. If you feel discouraged by them it´s not me.

There have been many threads and posts by many posters here, who have been trying to relay this message to you and others Wild Honey.

Thanks for the info on Marcion. Another piece of the puzzle that fits into my research.

I'm leaning toward the latter explanation.

I know..Ive seen the posts..

Hi..I dont understand the second quote..dont recall reading it..

:omgiggles:

:blush:

The "good news about the kingdom of God" is the New Testament.

Yes...thank you

Matt.11 Truly, I say to you, among those born of women there has risen no one greater than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.


... I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ 8The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit. 9“How can this be? Nicodemus asked. 10You are Israel’s teacher, said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things? John 3

Born again in the spirit..when the spirit becomes master over the flesh..?

A renewed spirit..

As Christ showed after the Resurrection?

He died in the flesh and was born again in the spirit

It seems it was touch and go..if the Marcionite view would have taken root and adopted by the Church

we would have a completely different..Bible

and the whole scenario would probably be very different too

the Old Testament and its incorporation into the Bible has changed everything in my opinion..radically

the world would be quite different WITHOUT IT!

Where in the New Testament is there ANY DOCTRINE that endorses war?

Where is the NEW TESTAMENT is there any doctrine that endorses slavery?

Where is the New Testament is there any doctrine that endorses taking of a life any life?

Where in the New Testament is there any Doctrine that endorses the Death Penalty?

Where in the New Testament is there any doctrine that endorses revenge?

Where in the New Testament is there any Doctrine that endorse Violence?

Where in the New Testament is there any doctrine that endorse rape?

where in the New Testament is there any Doctrine that endorse abortion?

Where is the New Testament is there any doctrine that endorses racism?

etc..