Question for Christians: If you don't have an eternal soul until you accept Jesus as your only Lord & Savior, what goes to hell forever?

what the hell are you talking about? I dont think a single Christian theologian has ever made the claim that we dont have souls before we accept Christ?

Do you know anything about Christianity?

Where in the bible does it say that you moron!

Everyone is made in God's triune image - Body, Soul, and Spirit

James 5:20
Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death(spiritual separation from God for eternity), and shall hide a multitude of sins.

John 3:16
New International Version (NIV)
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

The words "but have" imply eternal life is not something we are born with, but something received as a result of believing in Christ. "But have everlasting life," is undeniably future tense. Eternal life is something those who believe in Jesus Christ shall have in the future.

According to John 3:16, the Bible actually teaches that only those believing in Jesus will have eternal life. It is not something all men are born with. Likewise, John 3:16 actually teaches that those who do not believe in Jesus will perish, not suffer for eternity in hell.

Everyone with an elementary school education should recognize that these are contradictory concepts. Why is it necessary for God to offer you eternal life if the real you will never die? God would not have sacrificed His Son if you already had eternal life. Therefore, according to the Bible God knows man is mortal and does not possess eternal life. Who are you going to believe? Man, who claims you are immortal, or the inspired word of God which states otherwise?

What happens to those humans who do not believe in the Son of God? Implied in this phrase, "whosoever believeth in him, should not perish," is that those who do not believe in Him will perish. Most theologians do not believe this. There are only two possibilities, either you perish or you do not perish. If mankind is born with eternal life this phrase has no meaning, as they cannot perish. So this phrase indicates one is not born with any aspect of life which lives forever. No one will live in eternal agony in hellfire according to this verse. They will perish. When the words "eternal life" or "everlasting life" are used in the Bible, they are used in phrases such as: inherit eternal life, the gift of eternal life, or the promise of everlasting life. It is never mentioned as something one is born with, but something that Christians shall inherit in the future.

Last Edited by SaveTheLivingEntities on 07/28/2012 09:43 PM

And what part of this quote implies that you go to a "hell" with like flames and devils with pitchforks and stuff? Or any other part of the Bible for that matter?

This quote doesn't specifically, but I'm pretty sure it's common knowledge that Christianity & The Bible teaches if you don't believe in Jesus you go to hell for eternity.

Which is contrary to this quote, which actually says that you will perish, not go to hell.

Last Edited by SaveTheLivingEntities on 07/28/2012 10:04 PM

Sorry I didn't mean to offend you. No need to get so upset.

I have revised my original post and added some information from a later post that I had to clarify where the Bible teaches this.

Sorry if I offended you. No need to be insulting. I have revised my original post with a popular verse in the Bible that implies this.

Nothing can be entered into for eternity - neither life nor death nor anything else as eternity by definition can have no beginning. It may, however, be possible to pass through eternal states of being and the experience may be considered to have a beginning and end but you can't enter into such a state and then remain there for the rest of eternity as it contradicts the whole concept!

We have a body, soul and spirit. However, we're spiritually dead, since we are unable to know God. When a person converts, believes in Jesus Christ, God will give that person eternal life, and the spirit of that person will then be born again. Body is living even tough is stil dying. The soul, that was obscured by the spiritual death, can now see, begins it's regeneration (santification), by living by faith in God. I think it is along those lines.

Have in mind that the same Jesus Christ who said this quote said the quoted parable of the rich man and Lazarus.

The idea is that to perish does not mean "to die and disappear", since even christians die (in body)! Everlasting life could be taken to mean that christians would never die. The spirit might not die, but it doesn't mean the body doesn't still die.

Only the body dies and disappears. But the death of the soul/spirit is to eternally perish. In this case, the verb's closest meaning would be "to suffer destruction or ruin" ( see.: [link to dictionary.reference.com] ). Since the soul never dies, an unsaved person will suffer forever, eternally separated from God.

YOUR SOUL IS SOMETHING SEPARATE FROM YOUR SPIRIT.YOU YOURSELF ARE SPIRIT PERSONALITY A LIGHT MAN A HUE MAN.THIS BEING CREATES YOUR THREE DIMENSION BODY OF LIGHT ATOMS.
MOST PEOPLE HAVE A SOUL THAT IS A SEED FOR YOUR FUTURE MORONTIAN BODY.YOUR SOUL IS BORN BY BEING PLANTED IN THE SOIL OF DESIRE TO TRULY KNOW YOUR HEAVENLY FATHER AND BORN OF AT ONE MENT OF THE WILL OF YOUR PERSONALITY AFTER YOU OVERCOME EGO AND CHOOSE TO BE OF ONE WILL WITH YOUR INDWELLING FATHER FRAGMENT SPIRIT. TWO SEPARATE SPIRITS,A SOUL,AND AN EGO ALL RESIDE IN YOUR LITTLE PORTION OF MIND.THE ONE MIND OF THE CREATOR. the white rose
PS ALL IS LIGHT THERE IS NOTHING THAT IS NOT LIGHT,LIGHT OF THE FATHER'S LOVE

if you are really interested in studying the bible the best advice anyone can really give you is firstly even if you don't believe in christianity Jesus will guide you if you truly ask him, so firstly pray that he should guide you to the truth and help you understand. Secondly find a real bible not the N.I.V because it was translated to lead people away from the truth go back to the king james (not New king james) and finally do a search for the word hell through the whole bible you can even do it online. The bible isn't meant to be taken out of context so in the particular verse your refering too, shall not perish would mean Not go too hell....its pretty simple
when you die in sin you are considered twice dead so that means if you die being faithful to God you receive everlasting life or eternal life
also real christians don't call other people a moron the bible teaches you shouldn't even call your brother a fool....riiight? (don't mean you op)

TO ALL, TO BE SAVED IS TO KNOW THE TRUTH OF THE FATHER.
ALL IS LIGHT,THERE IS NOTHING THAT IS NOT LIGHT
Meaning of the Death on the Cross

(2016.6) 188:4.1 Although Jesus did not die this death on the cross to atone for the racial guilt of mortal man nor to provide some sort of effective approach to an otherwise offended and unforgiving God; even though the Son of Man did not offer himself as a sacrifice to appease the wrath of God and to open the way for sinful man to obtain salvation; notwithstanding that these ideas of atonement and propitiation are erroneous, nonetheless, there are significances attached to this death of Jesus on the cross which should not be overlooked. It is a fact that Urantia has become known among other neighboring inhabited planets as the “World of the Cross.”

(2016.7) 188:4.2 Jesus desired to live a full mortal life in the flesh on Urantia. Death is, ordinarily, a part of life. Death is the last act in the mortal drama. In your well-meant efforts to escape the superstitious errors of the false interpretation of the meaning of the death on the cross, you should be careful not to make the great mistake of failing to perceive the true significance and the genuine import of the Master’s death.

(2016.8) 188:4.3 Mortal man was never the property of the archdeceivers. Jesus did not die to ransom man from the clutch of the apostate rulers and fallen princes of the spheres. The Father in heaven never conceived of such crass injustice as damning a mortal soul because of the evil-doing of his ancestors. Neither was the Master’s death on the cross a sacrifice which consisted in an effort to pay God a debt which the race of mankind had come to owe him. *

(2016.9) 188:4.4 Before Jesus lived on earth, you might possibly have been justified in believing in such a God, but not since the Master lived and died among your fellow mortals. Moses taught the dignity and justice of a Creator God; but Jesus portrayed the love and mercy of a heavenly Father.

(2016.10) 188:4.5 The animal nature — the tendency toward evil-doing — may be hereditary, but sin is not transmitted from parent to child. Sin is the act of conscious and deliberate rebellion against the Father’s will and the Sons’ laws by an individual will creature. *

(2017.1) 188:4.6 Jesus lived and died for a whole universe, not just for the races of this one world. While the mortals of the realms had salvation even before Jesus lived and died on Urantia, it is nevertheless a fact that his bestowal on this world greatly illuminated the way of salvation; his death did much to make forever plain the certainty of mortal survival after death in the flesh.

(2017.2) 188:4.7 Though it is hardly proper to speak of Jesus as a sacrificer, a ransomer, or a redeemer, it is wholly correct to refer to him as a savior. He forever made the way of salvation (survival) more clear and certain; he did better and more surely show the way of salvation for all the mortals of all the worlds of the universe of Nebadon.

(2017.3) 188:4.8 When once you grasp the idea of God as a true and loving Father, the only concept which Jesus ever taught, you must forthwith, in all consistency, utterly abandon all those primitive notions about God as an offended monarch, a stern and all-powerful ruler whose chief delight is to detect his subjects in wrongdoing and to see that they are adequately punished, unless some being almost equal to himself should volunteer to suffer for them, to die as a substitute and in their stead. The whole idea of ransom and atonement is incompatible with the concept of God as it was taught and exemplified by Jesus of Nazareth. The infinite love of God is not secondary to anything in the divine nature.

(2017.4) 188:4.9 All this concept of atonement and sacrificial salvation is rooted and grounded in selfishness. Jesus taught that service to one’s fellows is the highest concept of the brotherhood of spirit believers. Salvation should be taken for granted by those who believe in the fatherhood of God. The believer’s chief concern should not be the selfish desire for personal salvation but rather the unselfish urge to love and, therefore, serve one’s fellows even as Jesus loved and served mortal men.

(2017.5) 188:4.10 Neither do genuine believers trouble themselves so much about the future punishment of sin. The real believer is only concerned about present separation from God. True, wise fathers may chasten their sons, but they do all this in love and for corrective purposes. They do not punish in anger, neither do they chastise in retribution.

(2017.6) 188:4.11 Even if God were the stern and legal monarch of a universe in which justice ruled supreme, he certainly would not be satisfied with the childish scheme of substituting an innocent sufferer for a guilty offender.

(2017.7) 188:4.12 The great thing about the death of Jesus, as it is related to the enrichment of human experience and the enlargement of the way of salvation, is not the fact of his death but rather the superb manner and the matchless spirit in which he met death.

(2017.8) 188:4.13 This entire idea of the ransom of the atonement places salvation upon a plane of unreality; such a concept is purely philosophic. Human salvation is real; it is based on two realities which may be grasped by the creature’s faith and thereby become incorporated into individual human experience: the fact of the fatherhood of God and its correlated truth, the brotherhood of man. It is true, after all, that you are to be “forgiven your debts, even as you forgive your debtors.” [link to www.urantia.org] the white rose

oh almost forgot too further illistrate my point about the new bibles being currupted if you look up hell compare the results of to the N.I.V you'll notice about 80 percent are missing or have been changed to words that most people don't even recognize

Jesus's real message,the body neither lives nor dies
To All, Death, what seems to be unfair is just your finite understanding of the infinite.The one known to you as Jesus told us to seek the truth and the truth will set you free,by seeking you earn salvation.Here are some truths I have found by my seeking.

Will which is the ability to choose to do a thing is the most important force in the Universe of Universes.When The First Source and center,The Father,The Thought and The Second Source and center,The Son,The Word have an individual collaboration and actualization of WILL,There Freewill,a co-creative creation comes into being.Will alone creates Spirit Sons, Paradise Creator Sons of the order of Michael,our Local Universe Son is Michael of Nebadon who Incarnated as Esu Immanuel known to most as Jesus

.In order allow us to use our soul/mind (HUE MAN =LIGHT MAN)being to overcome the adversary,which is our ego entity of material self-hood,and achieve a Spiritual birthing without the benefit of physical evidence.This being able to have the wholehearted faith and trust of "a little child"in your unseen Spiritual Father.Until AT ONE MENT of Will of the ascending HUE MAN the soul is a seed that needs to be planted in the soil of desire to know your Heavenly Father,when the individual's soul/mind overcomes ego of self and attains AT ONE MENT of WILL and becomes one with the indwelling Father Fragment that being realizes its IMMORTALITY.Esu Immanuel(JESUS) left nothing behind of Himself to allow us the privilege of becoming "AGONDONTERS"( ones who can attain without proof of seeing),to be an agondonter is a most cherished and wonderful achievement!Esu Immanul(JESUS)left nothing behind (no writings,no art,no relic of any kind)for another reason,He did not want there to be anything left to start a religion or cult around His Person rather than His teachings. Saul of Tarsus A.K.A. Paul a pharisee composed the new testament ( hijacking the early followers of Esu's teachings)and turned the movement right back into the blood cult of the HEBREW RABBIS using the MURDERED Esu Immanuel(JESUS)as the SACRIFICE!

I do however now have proof!I know by personal experience that paragraph 4 on page 1229 of "THE URANTIA BOOK" is the absolute, undeniable TRUTH and if that is TRUTH then the whole book is the TRUTH!

Here is what I experienced. On June 28,1984 while working in my small plant nursery pulling weeds,I was attacked by a swarm of very tiny mosquitoes. They were the size of gnats and did not cause itchy bites,so I kept working.Went to bed and woke up the next morning so sick I could not move I was immobilized.I did not leave my bed for seven days and nights,did not eat or drink or go to toilet.Fever so bad covers on one minute off the next for seven days.Then on July 5, 1984 a few minutes before midnight I mustered up enough strength to get to the bathroom and take my temperature.I saw myself in mirror for first time in a week.I looked like DEATH WARMED OVER!My temperature was 104.5,I looked in the mirror then I looked at the thermometer then back in the mirror and then realized I was close to death.I said to myself well I guess this is it I am heading into the UNKNOWN!I laughed at the face of death!I got back into bed and thought what if my next breath is my last.It was, I had this thought,this prayer if you will that It is my WILL that THY WILL be done MY FATHER(a positive affirmation of WILL)^This is the "AT ONE MENT OF WILL wholehearted faith and trust in the unseen,the trust of a little child. At this moment time stood still,I turned to my right and said to my wife Laurie I am dieing I love you good bye.I then turned to my left and saw my clock tick to midnight,at this moment of non-time I felt myself vacate my body,it started at the tips of my toes and whooshed up my body when it reached my heart and brain I departed through the top of my head. Now all matter has faded away and I find myself as a little tiny light all alone in the darkness until I saw coming up from my right and from what seemed to be BELOW another light and it approached me and came to my side. I looked up and I saw another light a much much more brilliant and powerful light being on the other side of the portal,I knew that was my CREATOR FATHER and as I tried to reach for His helping hand the other being of light put up this barrier between us it was everything I ever did that hurt someone my sins if you will.I looked and saw my CREATOR FATHER still reaching for me even with all the error and s.i.n.(stuck in negativity)I committed.I turned to the being who came up from below and said be gone I go with my Heavenly Father and with that the EVIL PRINCE OF DARKNESS departed back to the pit of DARKNESS he left screaming in defeat !

I then took part in a seven hour debate with my CREATOR over going directly to heaven with Him. He said what of your wife and children,I said they will be all right because they have You.He said what of your business and all your projects and art,I said they mean nothing now that I am in your presence.Then My CREATOR said because you were able to have the faith and trust of a little child and achieve AT ONE MENT OF WILL and give birth to your seed soul I want you to go back into the Firmament back to the density of matter and tell them ALL,so I had to relent.It was His plan that I come back and tell you all!I awoke with my head still looking at the clock as it turned to seven.

The Creator Son,Paradise Son The MICHAEL OF NEBADON and His bestowal personification in incarnation ESU IMMANUEL are REAL and always here for all who so choose of your own FREEWILL!!!!!!!!!!!!! Fear is the opposite of Faith HAVE NO FEAR LEARN THE TRUTH BY SEEKING AND HELP YOUR FELLOWS BY PASSING IT ON FREELY [link to www.urantia.org] THE BODY NEITHER LIVES NOR DIES THE SOUL/MIND HUE MAN LIGHT MAN LIVES AND IS IMMORTAL,THE LIGHT BODY OF THE DENSITY SIMULATES LIFE!!! the white rose

None of these posts really answer my question. They're just quotes that don't really have any proper context or explanation.

According to the Bible.

John 3:16
New International Version (NIV)
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

So if you do not have eternal life prior to that, how can you spend eternal life in Hell if you did not have it before?

If you did have it before, why does John 3:16 say that you only get eternal life after believing in the only Son?

Can anyone answer this question without posting a huge long quote?

All translations of John 3:16 basically say the same thing, regardless of the version. I checked that already.

The arguments are pretty strong. It says " but have eternal life ". Something that is attained in the future. Elsewhere in the Bible it talks about the "Gift of Eternal Life". Something given later on.

If you go to hell forever, that's still eternal life. It's eternal life in hell.

Last Edited by SaveTheLivingEntities on 07/29/2012 12:50 AM

To that I asked this question..
Also: What is your definition of Mercy? Is ONE chance to get it right, regardless of time, place, and circumstance your definition of an Unlimited Merciful God?


According to Vedic philosophy, God gives us unlimited life times to come to him, because he is our father and he does not want to see us fail. He wants us to join him in his Eternal Kingdom outside of all the material universes. Because he is our father and so merciful, the law of Transmigration of the Soul gives us unlimited chances over the course of eternity to find his instructions and follow them.

Last Edited by SaveTheLivingEntities on 07/29/2012 12:49 AM

You premise is flawed...

First of all, we do not have an eternal soul and there is no eternal burning in hell. Both of these doctrines were created by the RCC to scare people into obeying the church and making the church more powerful.

We had access to the Tree of Life in the Grden of Eden, but that was taken away when Adam and Eve accepted the word of the serpent over the command of God. We will again have access to the Tree of Life, and thus have immortality, after the return of Christ and the judgement of the wicked.

We do not have an immortal soul, Immortality is a gift from God at the time of His return.

For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
( 1 Corinthians 15:53-54)

Okay so you're the exception that doesn't believe in Eternal Hell. But we know that's not the majority.

When I am preaching Vaishnava philosophy, Christians will tell me "Just accept Jesus or you'll go to hell forever".

I have accepted Jesus as a pure devotee of the Lord, and even the creator of this specific Universe that we are in, but he is not the Absolute Truth, or the Cause of All Causes. He is not the Supreme Controller. He is a pure devotee of the Supreme Controller.

I see... you are not truly into Christianity, you are into new age spiritualism with a twisted and false splash of Christian terms.

Christianity is accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. That He is "the Way, the Truth, and the Life and that none come to the Father but by Him". There is no "half way" or deciding to accept some small parts of the Word of God. The scriptures teach that Jesus Christ is God manifest in the flesh and that He is both the Creator and Controller of all things... He is not a "devotee".

Nevertheless, the scriptures are very clear that hell is not eternal, it will burn just long enough to destroy the wicked then it will be gone forever. Likewise, the scriptures are very clear that we are not immortal, but we have a chance to gain eternal life at the return of Christ.

Please read each and every post from this thread. And watch all the videos as well. If you truly want and desire the truth.
Thread: Evidence of Jesus, Heaven, and Hell, as described in the Bible.

New Age? I believe you have not done any of your research. Vaishnavism is older than Christianity. It dates back at least 5,000+ years. Christianity is more "new age" than Vaishnavism.

I follow the teachings of Krishna from the Bhagavad-gita, and Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.

The very first teaching of the Bhagavad-gita is:

BG 2.12
Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be.

BG 2.13
As the embodied soul continuously passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. A sober person is not bewildered by such a change.

BG 2.17
That which pervades the entire body you should know to be indestructible. No one is able to destroy that imperishable soul.

BG 2.18
The material body of the indestructible, immeasurable and eternal living entity is sure to come to an end.



We are not these bodies, we are Spirit Souls. Spirit Souls have 3 Qualities of Eternity, Knowledge, and Bliss in minute Quantities.

I accept Jesus as a devotee of the Lord who preached in a specific way due to time, location, and circumstance. He is very exalted, but he is not The Supreme Controller.

Last Edited by SaveTheLivingEntities on 07/29/2012 01:18 AM

He's not quoting the bible.

Why are you comparing your fable to the bible?

That's pretty arrogant of you. How do you know it's a fable? Because you said so?

The Bhagavad-gita is Factual. It took place on a real battlefield that still exists today. Krishna was a historical person and no one denies that.

I did quote the Bible if you look at my original post that I later revised.

They who did will eternally sit in hell. It is the greatest trick satan ever played. Make the brain dead follow a remade religion going against all in the original bible. Wooo hoo. Sell your soul to the devil.. preach and demand all do. And when the original testament is pointed out ... deni and claim it is all good it was rewritten.

Boring...

A-lot of baggage in that question. The Bible does not support those preconceived notions. First off, man is a living soul. We either go on to eternal life on a new planet earth restored some day - after Jesus returns; or eternal death, dying the second death along with this old earth in the lake of fire - which is going to be a real fire.