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The virtues of Capitalism and the Free Market - true then and true now!

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 904314
Canada
07/31/2012 01:04 PM
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Re: The virtues of Capitalism and the Free Market - true then and true now!
If you are into reading and enjoy a good realistic sci-fi depiction of the near future, the Red Mars trilogy has a chilling but realistic prediction of what today's Capitalism will look like, if we keep up this trend, and some good ideas as to what we could possibly do about it heh - Multinational corporations being so big that their economies are bigger than whole countries, which become little more than playthings for corporate greed.
Charlie Scene

User ID: 15739868
United States
07/31/2012 01:08 PM
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Re: The virtues of Capitalism and the Free Market - true then and true now!
What if everyone was apart of the market though. Like what if everyone had a securities and exchange account, paid attention to the market, and what was going on in their field and in the news, and was constantly building their wealth that way?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20770363


So if everyone was rich, who would make the taco's and wash dishes? Who would grow the food and make things? (We dont have replicators)

It's just a fact of life that if you want a functioning society, there will be a few rich, and many middle class people. And lots of poor. That's just the way it is.

If everyone is rich, then nothing would get done!
 Quoting: padiae


And let me guess, You're in the middle class bracket and quite happy with your lot ?

Fuck the rest eh !
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12568325


We all get a fair shot in the beginning. What more can we ask for? I don't want any gifts from big brother. I can take care of myself.

I can see how capitalism could be a scary thought for people who have no desire to work.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 13479329
Slovakia
07/31/2012 01:08 PM
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Re: The virtues of Capitalism and the Free Market - true then and true now!
What if everyone was apart of the market though. Like what if everyone had a securities and exchange account, paid attention to the market, and what was going on in their field and in the news, and was constantly building their wealth that way?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20770363
.

We're not talking about the Stock Market, canuke.


The Free Market is open to everyone with an idea.



.
 Quoting: Borat Sagdiyev


Only the ideas for earning more funny money. No gain for ppl. Ponzi scheme protagonists being rewarded.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13479329


Nope. Say I start a business, I use the advantage of capitalism and succeed. That means jobs for many other people also.
 Quoting: Charlie Scene


You can start business only by taking on a loan. Hence being owned by the bankers already. The risk is yours - the colateral or the interest theirs.
salwensko
User ID: 1318168
Brazil
07/31/2012 01:08 PM
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Re: The virtues of Capitalism and the Free Market - true then and true now!
.


National Socialism worked for Germany.

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12568325
.


Only by stealing wealth, and invading & occupying its bordering nations.


.
 Quoting: Borat Sagdiyev
.

How about...

Only by stealing wealth, and invading & occupying nations around the world?

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20867361
.


Is the US "stealing wealth"?

Is the US invading, occupying countries and throwing people in ovens?


If so, why don't we have cheaper oil?

If so, why don't we have free South American lumber?

If so, why are people breaking immigration laws to come to America?


Does your owner know you're at the keyboard again?!

:glpkc:

.
 Quoting: Borat Sagdiyev



The U.S. has a different strategy: trade agreements through their corporations, sucking raw materials and cheap labor.
Charlie Scene

User ID: 15739868
United States
07/31/2012 01:09 PM
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Re: The virtues of Capitalism and the Free Market - true then and true now!
...
.

We're not talking about the Stock Market, canuke.


The Free Market is open to everyone with an idea.



.
 Quoting: Borat Sagdiyev


Only the ideas for earning more funny money. No gain for ppl. Ponzi scheme protagonists being rewarded.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13479329


Nope. Say I start a business, I use the advantage of capitalism and succeed. That means jobs for many other people also.
 Quoting: Charlie Scene


You can start business only by taking on a loan. Hence being owned by the bankers already. The risk is yours - the colateral or the interest theirs.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13479329


Not true. I never took a loan for my business. You don't always have to.
Borat Sagdiyev (OP)

User ID: 20554203
United States
07/31/2012 01:12 PM
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Re: The virtues of Capitalism and the Free Market - true then and true now!
.

The U.S. has a different strategy: trade agreements through
their corporations, sucking raw materials and cheap labor.

.
 Quoting: salwensko 1318168
.


If you believe that crap, then you only have your own corrupt
government to blame for dealing with the yanks
, fool.


.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 13479329
Slovakia
07/31/2012 01:14 PM
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Re: The virtues of Capitalism and the Free Market - true then and true now!
...


Only the ideas for earning more funny money. No gain for ppl. Ponzi scheme protagonists being rewarded.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13479329


Nope. Say I start a business, I use the advantage of capitalism and succeed. That means jobs for many other people also.
 Quoting: Charlie Scene


You can start business only by taking on a loan. Hence being owned by the bankers already. The risk is yours - the colateral or the interest theirs.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13479329


Not true. I never took a loan for my business. You don't always have to.
 Quoting: Charlie Scene


Have you no accounts in a bank? Credit lines etc. ... No firm can function without.

All the financial products you use belong to them, not to you. Owned through and through by your bank.
Charlie Scene

User ID: 15739868
United States
07/31/2012 01:15 PM
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Re: The virtues of Capitalism and the Free Market - true then and true now!
...


Nope. Say I start a business, I use the advantage of capitalism and succeed. That means jobs for many other people also.
 Quoting: Charlie Scene


You can start business only by taking on a loan. Hence being owned by the bankers already. The risk is yours - the colateral or the interest theirs.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13479329


Not true. I never took a loan for my business. You don't always have to.
 Quoting: Charlie Scene


Have you no accounts in a bank? Credit lines etc. ... No firm can function without.

All the financial products you use belong to them, not to you. Owned through and through by your bank.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13479329


LOL bsflag

You have no clue what you're talking about buddy.

Oh well.

I don't understand why so many people hate and degrade success.

I guess haters gonna hate
salwensko
User ID: 1318168
Brazil
07/31/2012 01:17 PM
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Re: The virtues of Capitalism and the Free Market - true then and true now!
What if everyone was apart of the market though. Like what if everyone had a securities and exchange account, paid attention to the market, and what was going on in their field and in the news, and was constantly building their wealth that way?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20770363


So if everyone was rich, who would make the taco's and wash dishes? Who would grow the food and make things? (We dont have replicators)

It's just a fact of life that if you want a functioning society, there will be a few rich, and many middle class people. And lots of poor. That's just the way it is.

If everyone is rich, then nothing would get done!
 Quoting: padiae


And let me guess, You're in the middle class bracket and quite happy with your lot ?

Fuck the rest eh !
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12568325


We all get a fair shot in the beginning. What more can we ask for? I don't want any gifts from big brother. I can take care of myself.

I can see how capitalism could be a scary thought for people who have no desire to work.
 Quoting: Charlie Scene



Yes, everyone has the same chances. chances are not identical? you should go out if everyone is really having the same opportunities
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 13479329
Slovakia
07/31/2012 01:18 PM
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Re: The virtues of Capitalism and the Free Market - true then and true now!
...


You can start business only by taking on a loan. Hence being owned by the bankers already. The risk is yours - the colateral or the interest theirs.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13479329


Not true. I never took a loan for my business. You don't always have to.
 Quoting: Charlie Scene


Have you no accounts in a bank? Credit lines etc. ... No firm can function without.

All the financial products you use belong to them, not to you. Owned through and through by your bank.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13479329


LOL bsflag

You have no clue what you're talking about buddy.

Oh well.

I don't understand why so many people hate and degrade success.

I guess haters gonna hate
 Quoting: Charlie Scene



Zombie.
salwensko
User ID: 1318168
Brazil
07/31/2012 01:18 PM
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Re: The virtues of Capitalism and the Free Market - true then and true now!
.

The U.S. has a different strategy: trade agreements through
their corporations, sucking raw materials and cheap labor.

.
 Quoting: salwensko 1318168
.


If you believe that crap, then you only have your own corrupt
government to blame for dealing with the yanks
, fool.


.
 Quoting: Borat Sagdiyev


accurate. This is capitalism!
Charlie Scene

User ID: 15739868
United States
07/31/2012 01:20 PM
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Re: The virtues of Capitalism and the Free Market - true then and true now!
...


Not true. I never took a loan for my business. You don't always have to.
 Quoting: Charlie Scene


Have you no accounts in a bank? Credit lines etc. ... No firm can function without.

All the financial products you use belong to them, not to you. Owned through and through by your bank.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13479329


LOL bsflag

You have no clue what you're talking about buddy.

Oh well.

I don't understand why so many people hate and degrade success.

I guess haters gonna hate
 Quoting: Charlie Scene



Zombie.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13479329


OOh good one!

norespect

Haters gonna hate
Borat Sagdiyev (OP)

User ID: 20554203
United States
07/31/2012 01:21 PM
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Re: The virtues of Capitalism and the Free Market - true then and true now!
.

If you are into reading and enjoy a good realistic sci-fi depiction of the near future, the Red Mars trilogy has a chilling but realistic prediction of what today's Capitalism will look like, if we keep up this trend, and some good ideas as to what we could possibly do about it heh - Multinational corporations being so big that their economies are bigger than whole countries, which become little more than playthings for corporate greed.

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 904314
.


.

Is there some society (company, or even person) you know that doesn't run on "greed"?

Do you think Russia doesn't run on "greed"?
Do you think China doesn't run on "greed"?

What is "greed"? Of course none of us are greedy ... it's only the other fellah that's 'greedy'.

The world runs on individuals pursuing their self-interest.

The great achievements of civilization have not come from government bureaucracies.

Einstein didn't construct his theory under order from a bureaucrat.

Henry Ford didn't revolutionize the automobile industry that way.

In the only cases in which the masses have escaped from the kind of grinding poverty
you're talking about — the only cases in recorded history — are where they've had
capitalism and largely free-trade.

If you want to know where the masses are worse-off, it's in exactly the kind of societies
where they depart from that.


So that the record of history is absolutely crystal-clear:

that there is no alternative way so far discovered in improving the lot of ordinary people
that can hold a candle to the productive activities that are unleashed by the free-enterprise system.


~ Morton Friedman

.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 12568325
United Kingdom
07/31/2012 01:22 PM
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Re: The virtues of Capitalism and the Free Market - true then and true now!
...


Have you no accounts in a bank? Credit lines etc. ... No firm can function without.

All the financial products you use belong to them, not to you. Owned through and through by your bank.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13479329


LOL bsflag

You have no clue what you're talking about buddy.

Oh well.

I don't understand why so many people hate and degrade success.

I guess haters gonna hate
 Quoting: Charlie Scene



Zombie.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13479329


OOh good one!

norespect

Haters gonna hate
 Quoting: Charlie Scene


Yep, and fools are gonna talk shit.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 13479329
Slovakia
07/31/2012 01:23 PM
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Re: The virtues of Capitalism and the Free Market - true then and true now!
...


Have you no accounts in a bank? Credit lines etc. ... No firm can function without.

All the financial products you use belong to them, not to you. Owned through and through by your bank.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13479329


LOL bsflag

You have no clue what you're talking about buddy.

Oh well.

I don't understand why so many people hate and degrade success.

I guess haters gonna hate
 Quoting: Charlie Scene



Zombie.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13479329


OOh good one!

norespect

Haters gonna hate
 Quoting: Charlie Scene


I don´t know you hence cannot hate you. Just from your writing you are a fool IMO. You are not able to reason by yourself, just following others. Not GLP-like at all. Enjoy your dream until it turns to a nightmare.
Charlie Scene

User ID: 15739868
United States
07/31/2012 01:23 PM
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Re: The virtues of Capitalism and the Free Market - true then and true now!
All the negative things you are all saying about Capitalism, isn't a result of capitalism. It's the result of corporatism. There is a difference, blame the Fed and other central banks for that. Not Capitalism.
Borat Sagdiyev (OP)

User ID: 20554203
United States
07/31/2012 01:24 PM
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Re: The virtues of Capitalism and the Free Market - true then and true now!
.

The U.S. has a different strategy: trade agreements through
their corporations, sucking raw materials and cheap labor.

.
 Quoting: salwensko 1318168
.


If you believe that crap, then you only have your own corrupt
government to blame for dealing with the yanks
, fool.


.
 Quoting: Borat Sagdiyev
.

accurate. This is capitalism!

.
 Quoting: salwensko 1318168
.


If you didn't have the yanks buying your "raw materials",
South Americans would still be eating boogers & bugs and
sacrificing each other to get the gods to give them a meager crop.

.
salwensko
User ID: 1318168
Brazil
07/31/2012 01:24 PM
Report Abusive Post
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Re: The virtues of Capitalism and the Free Market - true then and true now!
.

If you are into reading and enjoy a good realistic sci-fi depiction of the near future, the Red Mars trilogy has a chilling but realistic prediction of what today's Capitalism will look like, if we keep up this trend, and some good ideas as to what we could possibly do about it heh - Multinational corporations being so big that their economies are bigger than whole countries, which become little more than playthings for corporate greed.

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 904314
.


.

Is there some society (company, or even person) you know that doesn't run on "greed"?

Do you think Russia doesn't run on "greed"?
Do you think China doesn't run on "greed"?

What is "greed"? Of course none of us are greedy ... it's only the other fellah that's 'greedy'.

The world runs on individuals pursuing their self-interest.

The great achievements of civilization have not come from government bureaucracies.

Einstein didn't construct his theory under order from a bureaucrat.

Henry Ford didn't revolutionize the automobile industry that way.

In the only cases in which the masses have escaped from the kind of grinding poverty
you're talking about — the only cases in recorded history — are where they've had
capitalism and largely free-trade.

If you want to know where the masses are worse-off, it's in exactly the kind of societies
where they depart from that.


So that the record of history is absolutely crystal-clear:

that there is no alternative way so far discovered in improving the lot of ordinary people
that can hold a candle to the productive activities that are unleashed by the free-enterprise system.


~ Morton Friedman

.
 Quoting: Borat Sagdiyev


it is greed, is power, influence, control is, ideology:
Thread: Since 1945, the USA has attempted to overthrow more than 50 foreign governments, most of which had been democratically-elected.
Charlie Scene

User ID: 15739868
United States
07/31/2012 01:24 PM
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Re: The virtues of Capitalism and the Free Market - true then and true now!
...


LOL bsflag

You have no clue what you're talking about buddy.

Oh well.

I don't understand why so many people hate and degrade success.

I guess haters gonna hate
 Quoting: Charlie Scene



Zombie.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13479329


OOh good one!

norespect

Haters gonna hate
 Quoting: Charlie Scene


I don´t know you hence cannot hate you. Just from your writing you are a fool IMO. You are not able to reason by yourself, just following others. Not GLP-like at all. Enjoy your dream until it turns to a nightmare.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13479329


It's following others to NOT be a slave. To control my own destiny? 1dunno1

Ok then..

lol

Last Edited by *Evan on 07/31/2012 01:25 PM
salwensko
User ID: 1318168
Brazil
07/31/2012 01:27 PM
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Re: The virtues of Capitalism and the Free Market - true then and true now!
.

The U.S. has a different strategy: trade agreements through
their corporations, sucking raw materials and cheap labor.

.
 Quoting: salwensko 1318168
.


If you believe that crap, then you only have your own corrupt
government to blame for dealing with the yanks
, fool.


.
 Quoting: Borat Sagdiyev
.

accurate. This is capitalism!

.
 Quoting: salwensko 1318168
.


If you didn't have the yanks buying your "raw materials",
South Americans would still be eating boogers & bugs and
sacrificing each other to get the gods to give them a meager crop.

.
 Quoting: Borat Sagdiyev


maybe. or we would be producing useful things for our people instead of turning our country into a back yard
salwensko
User ID: 1318168
Brazil
07/31/2012 01:30 PM
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Re: The virtues of Capitalism and the Free Market - true then and true now!
capitalism is really great! How rich are poor and how many are there? It is a Darwinian system. Ok, it's nature, right? We are animals, right?
Borat Sagdiyev (OP)

User ID: 20554203
United States
07/31/2012 01:30 PM
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Re: The virtues of Capitalism and the Free Market - true then and true now!
...
.

If you believe that crap, then you only have your own corrupt
government to blame for dealing with the yanks
, fool.

.
 Quoting: Borat Sagdiyev
.

accurate. This is capitalism!

.
 Quoting: salwensko 1318168
.

If you didn't have the yanks buying your "raw materials",
South Americans would still be eating boogers & bugs and
sacrificing each other to get the gods to give them a meager crop.

.
 Quoting: Borat Sagdiyev
.

maybe. or we would be producing useful things for our
people instead of turning our country into a back yard

.
 Quoting: salwensko 1318168
.


Doubtful.

South American societies raped and pillaged each other
long before the white man arrived on scene.



.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 20912375
United Kingdom
07/31/2012 01:30 PM
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Re: The virtues of Capitalism and the Free Market - true then and true now!
We do not have capitalism now, we have corporatism.

If we had capitalism, non viable companies would be allowed to fail, with replacement industries filling in the need for jobs. There will always be unemployed people in capitalism, and that's why we need a small welfare state to support those temporarily unemployed by virtue of their previous tax contributions.

With our system of corporatism now, non viable companies receive massive government welfare and subsidies to stay afloat. This means that workplaces don't develop in a natural way and so we get pockets of permanently unemployed people with a much higher welfare bill.

If we let these companies fail and returned to a framework of around 70% private sector and 30% public sector, we would have a much more efficient system with less welfare spending, more opportunities for small and medium businesses to flourish, and a welfare system that acts as a trampoline, not a spiders web.
Charlie Scene

User ID: 15739868
United States
07/31/2012 01:31 PM
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Re: The virtues of Capitalism and the Free Market - true then and true now!
We do not have capitalism now, we have corporatism.

If we had capitalism, non viable companies would be allowed to fail, with replacement industries filling in the need for jobs. There will always be unemployed people in capitalism, and that's why we need a small welfare state to support those temporarily unemployed by virtue of their previous tax contributions.

With our system of corporatism now, non viable companies receive massive government welfare and subsidies to stay afloat. This means that workplaces don't develop in a natural way and so we get pockets of permanently unemployed people with a much higher welfare bill.

If we let these companies fail and returned to a framework of around 70% private sector and 30% public sector, we would have a much more efficient system with less welfare spending, more opportunities for small and medium businesses to flourish, and a welfare system that acts as a trampoline, not a spiders web.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20912375


You are correct.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 20949286
Germany
07/31/2012 01:32 PM
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Re: The virtues of Capitalism and the Free Market - true then and true now!
BOLLOX,

National Socialism worked for Germany.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12568325


Well actually, Germany has the better Constitution nowdays, USA could have it aswell but Roosevelt died before he could introduce his 3rd amendment in the US.

Only Germany and Japan have it and they are among the most free and successful countrys in the World still.

US is going downhill, and more and more invading in Privacy.

People complain about Obama Care well Germany has Healthcare and Socialcare for every Cityzen, no need for Foodstamps.

But you dont complain about being groped at the Airport or being shot by ur Police wierd Coruntry realy.
Borat Sagdiyev (OP)

User ID: 20554203
United States
07/31/2012 01:34 PM
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Re: The virtues of Capitalism and the Free Market - true then and true now!
We do not have capitalism now, we have corporatism.

If we had capitalism, non viable companies would be allowed to fail, with replacement industries filling in the need for jobs. There will always be unemployed people in capitalism, and that's why we need a small welfare state to support those temporarily unemployed by virtue of their previous tax contributions.

With our system of corporatism now, non viable companies receive massive government welfare and subsidies to stay afloat. This means that workplaces don't develop in a natural way and so we get pockets of permanently unemployed people with a much higher welfare bill.

If we let these companies fail and returned to a framework of around 70% private sector and 30% public sector, we would have a much more efficient system with less welfare spending, more opportunities for small and medium businesses to flourish, and a welfare system that acts as a trampoline, not a spiders web.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20912375
.


Yeah, I could agree with that.

But the answer would be to go BACK to Capitalism.

Socialism ultimately fails because eventually it
runs out of other people's money, especially that
generated by Capitalism.

.
Charlie Scene

User ID: 15739868
United States
07/31/2012 01:37 PM
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Re: The virtues of Capitalism and the Free Market - true then and true now!
We do not have capitalism now, we have corporatism.

If we had capitalism, non viable companies would be allowed to fail, with replacement industries filling in the need for jobs. There will always be unemployed people in capitalism, and that's why we need a small welfare state to support those temporarily unemployed by virtue of their previous tax contributions.

With our system of corporatism now, non viable companies receive massive government welfare and subsidies to stay afloat. This means that workplaces don't develop in a natural way and so we get pockets of permanently unemployed people with a much higher welfare bill.

If we let these companies fail and returned to a framework of around 70% private sector and 30% public sector, we would have a much more efficient system with less welfare spending, more opportunities for small and medium businesses to flourish, and a welfare system that acts as a trampoline, not a spiders web.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20912375
.


Yeah, I could agree with that.

But the answer would be to go BACK to Capitalism.

Socialism ultimately fails because eventually it
runs out of other people's money, especially that
generated by Capitalism.

.
 Quoting: Borat Sagdiyev


ohyeah
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 3705778
United States
07/31/2012 01:40 PM
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Re: The virtues of Capitalism and the Free Market - true then and true now!
.

Capitalism and free markets are the only systems in recorded
human history that can bring people out of grinding poverty.




.
 Quoting: Borat Sagdiyev


hey dum dum OP,lack of regulation by the people is what has enabled the bankers and corporations to steal trillions from the global economy.

You're hypocrite for using the ol 'stealing from the rich' argument.True socialism/communism or equally distributing all wealth would be extreme and a form of stealing.But as stated before the current system of capitalism has enabled bankers and corporations to do the opposite and steal from the peoplw.

All you're doing basically is advocating the rich steal from the poor instead of vice versa.
Charlie Scene

User ID: 15739868
United States
07/31/2012 01:42 PM
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Re: The virtues of Capitalism and the Free Market - true then and true now!
.

Capitalism and free markets are the only systems in recorded
human history that can bring people out of grinding poverty.




.
 Quoting: Borat Sagdiyev


hey dum dum OP,lack of regulation by the people is what has enabled the bankers and corporations to steal trillions from the global economy.
You're hypocrite for using the ol 'stealing from the rich' argument.True socialism/communism or equally distributing all wealth would be extreme and a form of stealing.But as stated before the current system of capitalism has enabled bankers and corporations to do the opposite and steal from the peoplw.

All you're doing basically is advocating the rich steal from the poor instead of vice versa.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3705778


Hey dum dum....ever hear of The Federal Reserve Act? That's what has let them loot the world.

You can have all the regulations you want, but when they control the money, they don't care about your regulators.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 3705778
United States
07/31/2012 01:44 PM
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Re: The virtues of Capitalism and the Free Market - true then and true now!
.

Capitalism and free markets are the only systems in recorded
human history that can bring people out of grinding poverty.




.
 Quoting: Borat Sagdiyev


hey dum dum OP,lack of regulation by the people is what has enabled the bankers and corporations to steal trillions from the global economy.
You're hypocrite for using the ol 'stealing from the rich' argument.True socialism/communism or equally distributing all wealth would be extreme and a form of stealing.But as stated before the current system of capitalism has enabled bankers and corporations to do the opposite and steal from the peoplw.

All you're doing basically is advocating the rich steal from the poor instead of vice versa.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3705778


Hey dum dum....ever hear of The Federal Reserve Act? That's what has let them loot the world.

You can have all the regulations you want, but when they control the money, they don't care about your regulators.
 Quoting: Charlie Scene


Hey dum dum..notice the part where I said the people themselves should regulate the corporations and govt,and not vice versa?

News