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Have You Noticed The Sun Has "Moved"? Post Your Evidence / Stories Here!

 
TBar1984

User ID: 13725461
United States
08/06/2012 11:49 AM
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Re: Have You Noticed The Sun Has "Moved"? Post Your Evidence / Stories Here!
You really are that dumb. Your answer was in the link YOU posted. No One else figured it out either, gee, what does that infer? It was answered back here Thread: Have You Noticed The Sun Has "Moved"? Post Your Evidence / Stories Here! (Page 25)

Nutation [link to en.wikipedia.org] They even have pretty pictures for You.

I'll post the procedure I post every time the 'tards bring up this subject. You don't need a compass to check the bearing of Sunset/Rise. All you have to do is use the Ruler Tool in Google Earth to measure the bearing of some conspicuous place near you, that you stand, to the landmark the sun is behind. It's good for those that have really bad compasses and don't know what Variation & Deviation mean. Then you can compute the expected bearing from the Amplitude calculation from Bowditch Table 22 and the Nautical Almanac. Usually after I post this the thread ends, it works exceptionally well.

...



Explain why you keep bringing it up when it is not relative to the discussion..?
High noon in any latitude is when the angle of sun rays are least apparent. We are talking about later in the afternoon when the angles are more apparent.

And by the way..

Why don't you explain why earth-based telescopes are calibrated using stars as fixed reference points?
Why not use pre-existing co-ordinates..? Or a compass and ruler..?
And.. while you are at it.. explain why they must be calibrated constantly..?
 Quoting: Waterbug

Why do you think this is 'not relative to the discussion'. It IS THE FREAKIN' DISCUSSION. GO OUT AND MEASURE THE SUN YOU MORON. It's right where it's supposed to be.

People have been Measuring the Sun this way for Hundreds of years. Just because it makes you look like a Freakin Idiot doesn't mean it's not relevant. You can also measure it near Rise/Set also, but it's it little more complicated. Ever heard of an amplitude? you do that at rise & set.

Didn't you bring up Celestial Navigation a little while ago? Why are you now saying it's irrelevant? I shot my first Sunline over 40 years ago, I know a little about Celestial Navigation.

Study the Procedure Here [link to en.wikisource.org]
Use an Artificial Horizon like These Guys [link to www.mbmg.mtech.edu]
You can get a Cheap Sextant Here [link to www.celestaire.com]
To see how close Your Sight is, compare it to these tables [link to navsoft.com]

AMPLITUDES
Example: The DR latitude of a ship is 51° 24.6' N. The navigator observes the setting Sun on the celestial horizon. Its decli- Tabulated Azimuth 359.2°T Compass Bearing 358.6°C Error 0.6°E Figure 1703. The amplitude angle (A) subtends the arc of the horizon between the body and the point where the prime vertical and the equator intersect the horizon. Note that it is the compliment of the azimuth angle (Z).

Observer’s Lat. Rising/Setting Observed bearing North Rising Add to North Setting Subtract from South Rising Subtract from South Setting Add to 274 AZIMUTHS AND AMPLITUDES nation is N 19° 40.4'. Its observed bearing is 303° pgc. Required: Gyro error. Solution: Interpolate in Table 22 for the Sun’s calculated amplitude as follows. See Figure 1704. The actual values for latitude and declination are L = 51.4° N and dec. = N 19.67°. Find the tabulated values of latitude and declination closest to these actual values. In this case, these tabulated values are L = 51° and dec. = 19.5°. Record the amplitude corresponding to these base values, 32.0°, as the base amplitude.

Next, holding the base declination value constant at 19.5°, increase the value of latitude to the next tabulated value: N 52°. Note that this value of latitude was increased because the actual latitude value was greater than the base value of latitude. Record the tabulated amplitude for L = 52° and dec. = 19.5°: 32.8°. Then, holding the base latitude value constant at 51°, increase the declination value to the next tabulated value: 20°. Record the tabulated amplitude for L = 51° and dec. = 20°: 32.9°.

The latitude’s actual value (51.4°) is 0.4 of the way between the base value (51°) and the value used to determine the tabulated amplitude (52°). The declination’s actual value (19.67°) is 0.3 of the way between the base value (19.5°) and the value used to determine the tabulated amplitude (20.0°). To determine the total correction to base amplitude, multiply these increments (0.4 and 0.3) by the respective difference between the base and tabulated values (+0.8 and +0.9, respectively) and sum the products. The total correction is +0.6°. Add the total correction (+0.6°) to the base amplitude (32.0°) to determine the final amplitude (32.6°) which will be converted to a true bearing. Because of its northerly declination (in this case), the Sun was 32.6° north of west when it was on the celestial horizon. Therefore its true bearing was 302.6° (270° + 32.6°) at this moment. Comparing this with the gyro bearing of 303° gives an error of 0.4°W, which can be rounded to 1/2°W..."
[link to en.wikisource.org]

Table 22 For Amplitudes [link to msi.nga.mil]


 Quoting: TBar1984

Here, watch;



The Ecliptic
"The axis of the Earth is undergoing a precessional motion similar to that of a top spinning with its axis tilted. In about 25,800 years the axis completes a cycle and returns to the position from which it started. Since the celestial equator is 90° from the celestial poles, it too is moving. The result is a slow westward movement of the equinoxes and solstices, which has already carried them about 30°, or one constellation, along the ecliptic from the positions they occupied when named more than 2,000 years ago. Since sidereal hour angle is measured from the vernal equinox, and declination from the celestial equator, the coordinates of celestial bodies would be changing even if the bodies themselves were stationary. This westward motion of the equinoxes along the ecliptic is called precession of the equinoxes. The total amount, called general precession, is about 50 seconds of arc per year. It may be considered divided into two components: precession in right ascension (about 46.10 seconds per year) measured along the celestial equator, and precession in declination (about 20.04" per year) measured perpendicular to the celestial equator. The annual change in the coordinates of any given star, due to precession alone, depends upon its position on the celestial sphere, since these coordinates are measured relative to the polar axis while the precessional motion is relative to the ecliptic axis.

Due to precession of the equinoxes, the celestial poles are slowly describing circles in the sky. The north celestial pole is moving closer to Polaris, which it will pass at a distance of approximately 28 minutes about the year 2102. Following this, the polar distance will increase, and eventually other stars, in their turn, will become the Pole Star.

The precession of the Earth’s axis is the result of gravitational forces exerted principally by the Sun and Moon on the Earth’s equatorial bulge. The spinning Earth responds to these forces in the manner of a gyroscope. Regression of the nodes introduces certain irregularities known as nutation in the precessional motion. See Figure 1519c."
[link to en.wikisource.org]

Tropic of Capricorn
[link to en.wikipedia.org]
"The Tropic of Capricorn is so named because when the Sun reaches the zenith at this latitude, it is entering the tropical sign of Capricorn (winter solstice). When it was named, about 2,000 years ago, the sun was also in the direction of the constellation Capricornus (capricorn is Latin for goat horn) at the December solstice. In modern times the sun appears in the constellation Sagittarius during this time. The change is due to precession of the equinoxes. The word "tropic" itself comes from the Greek tropos, meaning turn, referring to the fact that the sun appears to "turn back" at the solstices..."

SEE THE ABOVE VIDEO.
 Quoting: TBar1984

Apparent Motion due to Revolution of the Earth
"...Apparent motions of planets and the Moon are due to a combination of their motions and those of the Earth. If the rotation of the Earth were stopped, the combined apparent motion due to the revolutions of the Earth and other bodies would be similar to that occurring if both rotation and revolution of the Earth were stopped. Stars would appear nearly stationary in the sky but would undergo a small annual cycle of change due to aberration. The motion of the Earth in its orbit is sufficiently fast to cause the light from stars to appear to shift slightly in the direction of the Earth’s motion. This is similar to the effect one experiences when walking in vertically-falling rain that appears to come from ahead due to the observer’s own forward motion. The apparent direction of the light ray from the star is the vector difference of the motion of light and the motion of the Earth, similar to that of apparent wind on a moving vessel. This effect is most apparent for a body perpendicular to the line of travel of the Earth in its orbit, for which it reaches a maximum value of 20.5". The effect of aberration can be noted by comparing the coordinates (declination and sidereal hour angle) of various stars throughout the year. A change is observed in some bodies as the year progresses, but at the end of the year the values have returned almost to what they were at the beginning. The reason they do not return exactly is due to proper motion and precession of the equinoxes. It is also due to nutation, an irregularity in the motion of the Earth due to the disturbing effect of other celestial bodies, principally the Moon. Polar motion is a slight wobbling of the Earth about its axis of rotation and sometimes wandering of the poles. This motion, which does not exceed 40 feet from the mean position, produces slight variation of latitude and longitude of places on the Earth..."
[link to en.wikisource.org]

Nutation
"The nutation of a planet happens because of tidal forces that cause the precession of the equinoxes to vary over time so that the speed of precession is not constant. The nutation of the axis of the Earth was discovered in 1728 by the British astronomer James Bradley, but this nutation was not explained in detail until 20 years later.[1] Because the dynamic motions of the planets are so well-known, their nutations can be calculated to within arcseconds over periods of many decades. There is another disturbance of the Earth's rotation called polar motion that can be estimated for only a few months into the future because it is influenced by rapidly and unpredictably varying things such as ocean currents, wind systems, and motions in the liquid nickel-iron core of the Earth. Values of nutations are usually divided into components parallel and perpendicular to the ecliptic. The component that works along the ecliptic is known as the nutation in longitude. The component perpendicular to the ecliptic is known as the nutation in obliquity. Celestial coordinate systems are based on an "equator" and "equinox," which means a great circle in the sky that is the projection of the Earth's equator outwards, and a line, the Vernal equinox intersecting that circle, which determines the starting point for measurement of right ascension. These items are affected both by precession of the equinoxes and nutation, and thus depend on the theories applied to precession and nutation, and on the date used as a reference date for the coordinate system. In simpler terms, nutation (and precession) values are important in observation from Earth for calculating the apparent positions of astronomical objects...."

"Nutation makes a small change to the angle at which the Earth tilts with respect to the Sun, thereby moving the location of the Tropic of Cancer, the most northerly latitude which the Sun can reach directly overhead. All four major circles of latitude that are defined by the Earth's tilt (both Tropical Circles and both Polar Circles) will shift correspondingly."
[link to en.wikipedia.org]

YES, IT IS SUPPOSED TO DO THIS.
Just because you don't know how things are 'supposed to be' doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the way things are...
 Quoting: TBar1984


...


Still no answer, TBar?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21389207


Just curious... are you claiming that people are seeing the sun being 1/2 degree out of place in the sky?
 Quoting: Menow 18943200


So, no answer 21389207?
 Quoting: Menow 1394150


I'm not claiming anything. I just believe what I see with my own eyes. And: yes, the sun is out of place. And it's more than just 0.5 degrees.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21389207
Menow
User ID: 1394150
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08/06/2012 11:51 AM
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Re: Have You Noticed The Sun Has "Moved"? Post Your Evidence / Stories Here!
...


Still no answer on whether you can support the claim that the sun is RADICALLY out of place in the sky?
 Quoting: Menow 18943200


Give it up menow. 'cause trying is the first step towards failure...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21389207


Actually, I have been quite successful in demonstrating that Waterbug won't present anything which truly supports the claim of this thread. He can only misrepresent.
 Quoting: Menow 1394150


Successful??? Not from my point of view...
I would say he's very good in backing up his claims. And he's right.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21389207


Really? Then what is his specific claim? Is it that there are many known, TINY fluctuations in Earth's axis? No one is disputing that those exist. THAT is what he has shown evidence for- not that the sun is out of place enough to be seen by eye. It's sad that you don't understand the difference. You are precisely the type of person his efforts are intended to affect and upon whom it works so well.
Waterbug

User ID: 1295673
United States
08/06/2012 11:51 AM

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Re: Have You Noticed The Sun Has "Moved"? Post Your Evidence / Stories Here!
Simplified explanation..

The earth spins on its axis at 23.5 degrees off of vertical.
This is not constant and changes with the distribution of mass.

The amount of wobble is determined by monitoring distant objects such as quasars. The position of all the planets, earth included, is determined by celestial reference.. center of the solar system.. and calculated using 212 astronomical bodies.

To know our precise location we use Very Long Baseline Interferometry[VLBI] which can't be operated continually due to the complexity and expense.. radio-telescopic observations from all over the globe, basically. We need this information for GPS operation. It is precise but could be more precise with new ring laser gyroscopic technology which will operate from the poles. Not perfected but they are working on it.

We know that the north pole is migrating along 79 degrees West at a rate of about 10 centimeters annually and this value is increasing and accelerating. This is the rebound effect from the loss of ice mass that once covered large portions of the earth.

The Greenland melt is estimated to be increasing axial tilt by about 3 centimeters a year and is expected to increase. Ocean warming and expansion is pushing water onto shallow ocean shelves, changing the distribution of mass. This is causing the the northern pole of Earth's spin axis to shift by roughly 1.5 centimeters per year in the direction of Alaska and Hawaii.
Other factors include crust and mantle movement and effects from El Nino which also shift mass.

Warming temperature also affects rate of spin.. as do perihelion and aphelion.
There are other factors which have effects but I'm not going any further than I have at this time.

This information is not hidden. It is all available on the web..

internet
 Quoting: Waterbug
Anonymous Coward
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08/06/2012 11:51 AM
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Re: Have You Noticed The Sun Has "Moved"? Post Your Evidence / Stories Here!
Welcome to the bi-annual "The Sun is out of place" thread!

tounge
Menow
User ID: 1394150
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08/06/2012 11:54 AM
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...


So, no answer 21389207?
 Quoting: Menow 1394150


I'm not claiming anything. I just believe what I see with my own eyes. And: yes, the sun is out of place. And it's more than just 0.5 degrees.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21389207


So the images from Katcam and the yearly passing of the Manhattanhenge phenomenon proving that the sun is exactly where it belongs are what... fake? The world's astronomers are not saying anything about this because of what... they are ALL being "controlled"?
 Quoting: Menow 1394150

PS: I don't give a shit about Katcam and Manhattanhenge (WTF is a Manhattanhenge??? Can I eat it???).
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21389207


I see. You ignore all evidence which might prove you wrong. Typical- it speaks volumes.

And for the astronomers: They would loose their job or suddenly die if they would speak about it. Just like Gene Shoemaker, Harrington, etc. pp.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21389207


You actually believe that all astronomers have been "silenced" through threats of losing their jobs? ALL of them?? You don't understand that there are tens of thousands of amateur astronomers all around the world? Seriously??
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 21389207
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08/06/2012 11:56 AM
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...


I'm not claiming anything. I just believe what I see with my own eyes. And: yes, the sun is out of place. And it's more than just 0.5 degrees.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21389207


Oh... sorry. I didn't see this. Now....Why are you making a reference to the above, which speaks of a TINY LOOONG term variation in the Tropic of Capricorn. How does that relate to your claim that the sun is out of place by more than 0.5 degrees?

"I'm not claiming anything."

Clearly you are. Now it remains for you to be SPECIFIC and show SPECIFIC evidence. You have none. How much do you claim the sun is out of place? Please be SPECIFIC. If you can't, then you are just blowing smoke.
 Quoting: Menow 1394150


No, Sir. You are wrong and you obviously can't read. Wikipedia is claiming this!!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21389207


You're lying. You are claiming that the sun is out of place enough for people to see and that Wiki supports that notion. It does not. Repeat: How much do you claim the sun is out of place? Please be SPECIFIC. If you can't, then you are just blowing smoke.
 Quoting: Menow 1394150


Didn't you say: SIDETRACKING? That's what you're doing here. I mentioned the Capricorn variation, an gave the link to Wikipedia. And I said this shouldn't happen if the sun was were it should be, right? That's all. I'm just responsible for what I say, not for the Bullshit you're interpreting into it.

To make a long story short: You're an idiot, Sir.
Menow
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08/06/2012 12:00 PM
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Re: Have You Noticed The Sun Has "Moved"? Post Your Evidence / Stories Here!
Simplified explanation..


This information is not hidden. It is all available on the web..

:internet:
 Quoting: Waterbug


Again... this is an explanation for WHAT? Stop posting things which in no way support the notion that the sun is RADICALLY and VISIBLY out of place in the sky. It is nothing but disingenuous and obvious shilling for the SUN OUT OF PLACE cult.
Anonymous Coward
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08/06/2012 12:02 PM
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Re: Have You Noticed The Sun Has "Moved"? Post Your Evidence / Stories Here!
You really are that dumb. Your answer was in the link YOU posted. No One else figured it out either, gee, what does that infer? It was answered back here Thread: Have You Noticed The Sun Has "Moved"? Post Your Evidence / Stories Here! (Page 25)

Nutation [link to en.wikipedia.org] They even have pretty pictures for You.

I'll post the procedure I post every time the 'tards bring up this subject. You don't need a compass to check the bearing of Sunset/Rise. All you have to do is use the Ruler Tool in Google Earth to measure the bearing of some conspicuous place near you, that you stand, to the landmark the sun is behind. It's good for those that have really bad compasses and don't know what Variation & Deviation mean. Then you can compute the expected bearing from the Amplitude calculation from Bowditch Table 22 and the Nautical Almanac. Usually after I post this the thread ends, it works exceptionally well.

 Quoting: TBar1984


WTF are you babbling about? Are you 'talking' to me?
Anonymous Coward
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08/06/2012 12:03 PM
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Re: Have You Noticed The Sun Has "Moved"? Post Your Evidence / Stories Here!
...


Give it up menow. 'cause trying is the first step towards failure...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21389207


Actually, I have been quite successful in demonstrating that Waterbug won't present anything which truly supports the claim of this thread. He can only misrepresent.
 Quoting: Menow 1394150


Successful??? Not from my point of view...
I would say he's very good in backing up his claims. And he's right.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21389207


Really? Then what is his specific claim? Is it that there are many known, TINY fluctuations in Earth's axis? No one is disputing that those exist. THAT is what he has shown evidence for- not that the sun is out of place enough to be seen by eye. It's sad that you don't understand the difference. You are precisely the type of person his efforts are intended to affect and upon whom it works so well.
 Quoting: Menow 1394150


He's old and educated enough. He can speak for hisself.
Menow
User ID: 1394150
United States
08/06/2012 12:04 PM
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Re: Have You Noticed The Sun Has "Moved"? Post Your Evidence / Stories Here!
...


Oh... sorry. I didn't see this. Now....Why are you making a reference to the above, which speaks of a TINY LOOONG term variation in the Tropic of Capricorn. How does that relate to your claim that the sun is out of place by more than 0.5 degrees?

"I'm not claiming anything."

Clearly you are. Now it remains for you to be SPECIFIC and show SPECIFIC evidence. You have none. How much do you claim the sun is out of place? Please be SPECIFIC. If you can't, then you are just blowing smoke.
 Quoting: Menow 1394150


No, Sir. You are wrong and you obviously can't read. Wikipedia is claiming this!!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21389207


You're lying. You are claiming that the sun is out of place enough for people to see and that Wiki supports that notion. It does not. Repeat: How much do you claim the sun is out of place? Please be SPECIFIC. If you can't, then you are just blowing smoke.
 Quoting: Menow 1394150


Didn't you say: SIDETRACKING? That's what you're doing here.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21389207


Not at all. What is claim here? It is that the sun is WILDLY out of place in the sky. Have anything to support that? No? Then why are you posting irrelevant information and pretending it relates?

I mentioned the Capricorn variation, an gave the link to Wikipedia. And I said this shouldn't happen if the sun was were it should be, right?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21389207


Wrong. It's normal.

That's all. I'm just responsible for what I say, not for the Bullshit you're interpreting into it.

To make a long story short: You're an idiot, Sir.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21389207


Heh. See above, where you said: "right"? You were wrong. Get it? No, I don't suppose you do.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 21389207
Germany
08/06/2012 12:05 PM
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Re: Have You Noticed The Sun Has "Moved"? Post Your Evidence / Stories Here!
...


I'm not claiming anything. I just believe what I see with my own eyes. And: yes, the sun is out of place. And it's more than just 0.5 degrees.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21389207


So the images from Katcam and the yearly passing of the Manhattanhenge phenomenon proving that the sun is exactly where it belongs are what... fake? The world's astronomers are not saying anything about this because of what... they are ALL being "controlled"?
 Quoting: Menow 1394150

PS: I don't give a shit about Katcam and Manhattanhenge (WTF is a Manhattanhenge??? Can I eat it???).
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21389207


I see. You ignore all evidence which might prove you wrong. Typical- it speaks volumes.

And for the astronomers: They would loose their job or suddenly die if they would speak about it. Just like Gene Shoemaker, Harrington, etc. pp.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21389207


You actually believe that all astronomers have been "silenced" through threats of losing their jobs? ALL of them?? You don't understand that there are tens of thousands of amateur astronomers all around the world? Seriously??
 Quoting: Menow 1394150


Yep. Seriously. If That wouldn't be the case you wouldn't get paid for posting your BS. It's that simple.
Waterbug

User ID: 1295673
United States
08/06/2012 12:06 PM

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Re: Have You Noticed The Sun Has "Moved"? Post Your Evidence / Stories Here!
Simplified explanation..


This information is not hidden. It is all available on the web..

internet
 Quoting: Waterbug


Again... this is an explanation for WHAT? Stop posting things which in no way support the notion that the sun is RADICALLY and VISIBLY out of place in the sky. It is nothing but disingenuous and obvious shilling for the SUN OUT OF PLACE cult.
 Quoting: Menow 1394150


Fuck you. You're not my dad. I'll post when and where I want to. You're just pissed because I showed you to be a fucking dimbulb..

My opinion stands..

clown
Menow
User ID: 1394150
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08/06/2012 12:07 PM
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...


Actually, I have been quite successful in demonstrating that Waterbug won't present anything which truly supports the claim of this thread. He can only misrepresent.
 Quoting: Menow 1394150


Successful??? Not from my point of view...
I would say he's very good in backing up his claims. And he's right.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21389207


Really? Then what is his specific claim? Is it that there are many known, TINY fluctuations in Earth's axis? No one is disputing that those exist. THAT is what he has shown evidence for- not that the sun is out of place enough to be seen by eye. It's sad that you don't understand the difference. You are precisely the type of person his efforts are intended to affect and upon whom it works so well.
 Quoting: Menow 1394150


He's old and educated enough. He can speak for hisself.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21389207


Apparently he can't, or won't. I have asked him repeatedly if he thinks the sun is RADICALLY (or whatever other term you prefer) out of place in the sky and if he can present any supporting evidence for that notion. No pertinent response.
Menow
User ID: 1394150
United States
08/06/2012 12:10 PM
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Re: Have You Noticed The Sun Has "Moved"? Post Your Evidence / Stories Here!
Simplified explanation..


This information is not hidden. It is all available on the web..

:internet:
 Quoting: Waterbug


Again... this is an explanation for WHAT? Stop posting things which in no way support the notion that the sun is RADICALLY and VISIBLY out of place in the sky. It is nothing but disingenuous and obvious shilling for the SUN OUT OF PLACE cult.
 Quoting: Menow 1394150


Fuck you. You're not my dad. I'll post when and where I want to. You're just pissed because I showed you to be a fucking dimbulb..

My opinion stands..

 Quoting: Waterbug


Hilarious! Your opinion is WHAT, again? You won't even spell it out! You will only dance around the edges of this subject and not really commit to a position on the central claim, which is: The sun is RADICALLY, VISIBLY, DRAMATICALLY out of place in the sky. What a pretender! What a maroon!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 21389207
Germany
08/06/2012 12:11 PM
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...


Successful??? Not from my point of view...
I would say he's very good in backing up his claims. And he's right.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21389207


Really? Then what is his specific claim? Is it that there are many known, TINY fluctuations in Earth's axis? No one is disputing that those exist. THAT is what he has shown evidence for- not that the sun is out of place enough to be seen by eye. It's sad that you don't understand the difference. You are precisely the type of person his efforts are intended to affect and upon whom it works so well.
 Quoting: Menow 1394150


He's old and educated enough. He can speak for hisself.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21389207


Apparently he can't, or won't. I have asked him repeatedly if he thinks the sun is RADICALLY (or whatever other term you prefer) out of place in the sky and if he can present any supporting evidence for that notion. No pertinent response.
 Quoting: Menow 1394150


He NEVER, EVER said RADICALLY, WILDLY or anything like this. You're putting words in peoples mouth. But that's part of your shill-education, right?
Menow
User ID: 1394150
United States
08/06/2012 12:13 PM
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Re: Have You Noticed The Sun Has "Moved"? Post Your Evidence / Stories Here!
...


So the images from Katcam and the yearly passing of the Manhattanhenge phenomenon proving that the sun is exactly where it belongs are what... fake? The world's astronomers are not saying anything about this because of what... they are ALL being "controlled"?
 Quoting: Menow 1394150

PS: I don't give a shit about Katcam and Manhattanhenge (WTF is a Manhattanhenge??? Can I eat it???).
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21389207


I see. You ignore all evidence which might prove you wrong. Typical- it speaks volumes.

And for the astronomers: They would loose their job or suddenly die if they would speak about it. Just like Gene Shoemaker, Harrington, etc. pp.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21389207


You actually believe that all astronomers have been "silenced" through threats of losing their jobs? ALL of them?? You don't understand that there are tens of thousands of amateur astronomers all around the world? Seriously??
 Quoting: Menow 1394150


Yep. Seriously. If That wouldn't be the case you wouldn't get paid for posting your BS. It's that simple.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21389207


So you are admitting that you DON'T understand there are tens of thousands of amateur astronomers all around the world? Well,there are. How do you imagine all of THEM are being controlled? Go ahead and explain that. This ought to be good!
Menow
User ID: 1394150
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08/06/2012 12:16 PM
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Re: Have You Noticed The Sun Has "Moved"? Post Your Evidence / Stories Here!
...


Really? Then what is his specific claim? Is it that there are many known, TINY fluctuations in Earth's axis? No one is disputing that those exist. THAT is what he has shown evidence for- not that the sun is out of place enough to be seen by eye. It's sad that you don't understand the difference. You are precisely the type of person his efforts are intended to affect and upon whom it works so well.
 Quoting: Menow 1394150


He's old and educated enough. He can speak for hisself.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21389207


Apparently he can't, or won't. I have asked him repeatedly if he thinks the sun is RADICALLY (or whatever other term you prefer) out of place in the sky and if he can present any supporting evidence for that notion. No pertinent response.
 Quoting: Menow 1394150


He NEVER, EVER said RADICALLY, WILDLY or anything like this. You're putting words in peoples mouth. But that's part of your shill-education, right?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21389207


Ummm why don't you try reading the OP again. THAT is what is being claimed here- NOT that there are TINY fluctuations in the Earth's motions. Don' you understand the difference? NO ONE says that the Earth is rock-steady in space. NO ONE! Get it? At ALL?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 21389207
Germany
08/06/2012 12:17 PM
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Re: Have You Noticed The Sun Has "Moved"? Post Your Evidence / Stories Here!
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No, Sir. You are wrong and you obviously can't read. Wikipedia is claiming this!!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21389207


You're lying. You are claiming that the sun is out of place enough for people to see and that Wiki supports that notion. It does not. Repeat: How much do you claim the sun is out of place? Please be SPECIFIC. If you can't, then you are just blowing smoke.
 Quoting: Menow 1394150


Didn't you say: SIDETRACKING? That's what you're doing here.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21389207


Not at all. What is claim here? It is that the sun is WILDLY out of place in the sky. Have anything to support that? No? Then why are you posting irrelevant information and pretending it relates?

I mentioned the Capricorn variation, an gave the link to Wikipedia. And I said this shouldn't happen if the sun was were it should be, right?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21389207


Wrong. It's normal.

That's all. I'm just responsible for what I say, not for the Bullshit you're interpreting into it.

To make a long story short: You're an idiot, Sir.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21389207


Heh. See above, where you said: "right"? You were wrong. Get it? No, I don't suppose you do.
 Quoting: Menow 1394150


OK, just for fun:
1. I never said WILDLY. If it would be wildly out of place more people would notice it.
2. I'm not lying, YOU ARE
3. Capricorn variation is normal? Oh yeah: so it's normal that the sun and the zodiac are out of place..., now we get nearer to the truth.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 21389207
Germany
08/06/2012 12:19 PM
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PS: I don't give a shit about Katcam and Manhattanhenge (WTF is a Manhattanhenge??? Can I eat it???).
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21389207


I see. You ignore all evidence which might prove you wrong. Typical- it speaks volumes.

And for the astronomers: They would loose their job or suddenly die if they would speak about it. Just like Gene Shoemaker, Harrington, etc. pp.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21389207


You actually believe that all astronomers have been "silenced" through threats of losing their jobs? ALL of them?? You don't understand that there are tens of thousands of amateur astronomers all around the world? Seriously??
 Quoting: Menow 1394150


Yep. Seriously. If That wouldn't be the case you wouldn't get paid for posting your BS. It's that simple.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21389207


So you are admitting that you DON'T understand there are tens of thousands of amateur astronomers all around the world? Well,there are. How do you imagine all of THEM are being controlled? Go ahead and explain that. This ought to be good!
 Quoting: Menow 1394150


Go back to shool and learn: READING.

---snip---
And for the astronomers: They would loose their job or suddenly die if they would speak about it. Just like Gene Shoemaker, Harrington, etc. pp.
---snip---
Menow
User ID: 1394150
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08/06/2012 12:24 PM
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You're lying. You are claiming that the sun is out of place enough for people to see and that Wiki supports that notion. It does not. Repeat: How much do you claim the sun is out of place? Please be SPECIFIC. If you can't, then you are just blowing smoke.
 Quoting: Menow 1394150


Didn't you say: SIDETRACKING? That's what you're doing here.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21389207


Not at all. What is claim here? It is that the sun is WILDLY out of place in the sky. Have anything to support that? No? Then why are you posting irrelevant information and pretending it relates?

I mentioned the Capricorn variation, an gave the link to Wikipedia. And I said this shouldn't happen if the sun was were it should be, right?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21389207


Wrong. It's normal.

That's all. I'm just responsible for what I say, not for the Bullshit you're interpreting into it.

To make a long story short: You're an idiot, Sir.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21389207


Heh. See above, where you said: "right"? You were wrong. Get it? No, I don't suppose you do.
 Quoting: Menow 1394150


OK, just for fun:
1. I never said WILDLY.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21389207


OK. What is YOUR term? How much is the sun out of place in the sky? Even approximately. How much? In degrees please.
If it would be wildly out of place more people would notice it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21389207


Oh, only "special" people notice it, but not the world's astronomers? Really?

2. I'm not lying, YOU ARE
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21389207


Actually, I'm not.

3. Capricorn variation is normal? Oh yeah: so it's normal that the sun and the zodiac are out of place..., now we get nearer to the truth.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21389207


"Out of place"?? Where does any Wiki article, or any other source you can cite say that is abnormal? Waiting... Also waiting for you to show how that kind of TINY fluctuation can be seen by eye. Go ahead.
Waterbug

User ID: 1295673
United States
08/06/2012 12:25 PM

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Re: Have You Noticed The Sun Has "Moved"? Post Your Evidence / Stories Here!
Original post...

Greetings to all.

I am a skeptic by nature. Large. When I saw YouTube vids about 4 years ago claiming the sun is setting farther north than same time the year previous, I dismissed it. I saw nothing of the sort. I like to see things like this with my own eyes if I am going to believe it.

I love sunsets. I have a million pictures of sunsets from every place I have been. The way the sky paints itself in unreplicable colours and shades has amazed me since I was a little girl. I particularly love the sunsets through my living room windows, which face due west.

Two years ago I remarked to my husband that the sun appeared to be setting slightly more north than it had they years prior. I noticed this from the positions I would have to take in order to capture a great backyard sunset shot. Some trees presented as visual obstacles when they weren't before. I thought about those videos with a little more interest, and read a little bit about some claims of the sun's movement, but once again put the thought at the back of my mind.

Well this year did it for me. I have a small shade garden on the north end of my house. There are hedges and a shed and of course the house, all of which have provided adequate shade for sun shy hostas, pulmonaria, lamium and impatients. At night it is very dark and I have never been able to successfully use solar path lights because the area never got enough sun to provide a good charge. THIS YEAR is different!!! There is a clear patch of almost all-day sun in an area that was always shaded. My shade-dwelling perennials are burning and shriveling. I could very easily tap a solar path light in there that could charge basically all day long providing good night light. WTF IS GOING ON???

Yes friends, this to me is 100% proof that the sun is farther north in the sky than it has been in previous years. Why won't the mainstream acknowledge this? I have recenlyt seen video of aboriginal peoples in different parts of the world who attest to the sun's movement. Can we get some scientific acknowledgement, please??

Please post your personal evidence / stories here, would love to learn more about what others are experiencing.

Thanks and hf
 Quoting: ExoPoliChick


Simplified explanation..


This information is not hidden. It is all available on the web..

internet
 Quoting: Waterbug


Again... this is an explanation for WHAT? Stop posting things which in no way support the notion that the sun is RADICALLY and VISIBLY out of place in the sky. It is nothing but disingenuous and obvious shilling for the SUN OUT OF PLACE cult.
 Quoting: Menow 1394150


My opinion stands..

 Quoting: Waterbug


Hilarious! Your opinion is WHAT, again? You won't even spell it out! You will only dance around the edges of this subject and not really commit to a position on the central claim, which is: The sun is RADICALLY, VISIBLY, DRAMATICALLY out of place in the sky. What a pretender! What a maroon!
 Quoting: Menow 1394150


This is from her original post..

Two years ago I remarked to my husband that the sun appeared to be setting slightly more north than it had they years prior. I noticed this from the positions I would have to take in order to capture a great backyard sunset shot.



Who is disingenuous..?
You are apparently retarded.

I rest my case.

Hoisted with your own petard.. chuckle

:turd:
Menow
User ID: 1394150
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08/06/2012 12:26 PM
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I see. You ignore all evidence which might prove you wrong. Typical- it speaks volumes.

...


You actually believe that all astronomers have been "silenced" through threats of losing their jobs? ALL of them?? You don't understand that there are tens of thousands of amateur astronomers all around the world? Seriously??
 Quoting: Menow 1394150


Yep. Seriously. If That wouldn't be the case you wouldn't get paid for posting your BS. It's that simple.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21389207


So you are admitting that you DON'T understand there are tens of thousands of amateur astronomers all around the world? Well,there are. How do you imagine all of THEM are being controlled? Go ahead and explain that. This ought to be good!
 Quoting: Menow 1394150


Go back to shool and learn: READING.

---snip---
And for the astronomers: They would loose their job or suddenly die if they would speak about it. Just like Gene Shoemaker, Harrington, etc. pp.
---snip---
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21389207


You don't understand that there are tens of thousands of amateur astronomers all around the world? Seriously??
Waterbug

User ID: 1295673
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08/06/2012 12:27 PM

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You're lying. You are claiming that the sun is out of place enough for people to see and that Wiki supports that notion. It does not. Repeat: How much do you claim the sun is out of place? Please be SPECIFIC. If you can't, then you are just blowing smoke.
 Quoting: Menow 1394150


Didn't you say: SIDETRACKING? That's what you're doing here.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21389207


Not at all. What is claim here? It is that the sun is WILDLY out of place in the sky. Have anything to support that? No? Then why are you posting irrelevant information and pretending it relates?

I mentioned the Capricorn variation, an gave the link to Wikipedia. And I said this shouldn't happen if the sun was were it should be, right?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21389207


Wrong. It's normal.

That's all. I'm just responsible for what I say, not for the Bullshit you're interpreting into it.

To make a long story short: You're an idiot, Sir.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21389207


Heh. See above, where you said: "right"? You were wrong. Get it? No, I don't suppose you do.
 Quoting: Menow 1394150


OK, just for fun:
1. I never said WILDLY. If it would be wildly out of place more people would notice it.
2. I'm not lying, YOU ARE
3. Capricorn variation is normal? Oh yeah: so it's normal that the sun and the zodiac are out of place..., now we get nearer to the truth.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21389207


chuckle
Desert FoxModerator
Forum Moderator

User ID: 8786935
United States
08/06/2012 12:29 PM

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Re: Have You Noticed The Sun Has "Moved"? Post Your Evidence / Stories Here!
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Yep, I just can't take it anymore, gonna end it all, cause I just read a thread on GLP. It is more than a GLPer can take. All other threads are so uplifting and positive.lol
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8786935


You really are dense. It's not just about some thread on GLP. These rumors are all over the place. This is just one place to address them. There has been at least one person to threaten suicide over "PX" right here on GLP, however.
 Quoting: Menow 18943200

And you believed a sucide threat from someone on GLP. Now who is dense?
 Quoting: Desert Fox

So you agree that people write BS on GLP?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21164448

Absolutely.
TOMABANEFOX
Halcyon Dayz, FCD
Contrarian's Contrarian

User ID: 19507663
Netherlands
08/06/2012 12:32 PM

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Re: Have You Noticed The Sun Has "Moved"? Post Your Evidence / Stories Here!
Welcome to the bi-annual "The Sun is out of place" thread!

tounge
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21278867

Now in its 16th season...


My opinion stands..
 Quoting: Waterbug

Nobody cares about your opinion.

The only thing that matters is your evidence, and it sucks.


---snip---
And for the astronomers: They would loose their job or suddenly die if they would speak about it. Just like Gene Shoemaker, Harrington, etc. pp.
---snip---
 Quoting: German Coward 21389207

Why is your Conspiracy Theory relevant to something anyone can test for themselves.

Why do the disinfo shills keep refusing to measure the position of the Sun?
book
Hatred is a cancer upon the world.
It rots the mind and blackens the heart.


Hi! My name is Halcyon Dayz and I'm addicted to morans.
TBar1984

User ID: 13725461
United States
08/06/2012 12:32 PM
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Re: Have You Noticed The Sun Has "Moved"? Post Your Evidence / Stories Here!
Hey TBar, would you please explain why the Tropic of Capricorn bobs between 22 and 24 degrees over time.
If the sun is where it is supposed to be, this wouldn't happen, right?

---snip---
The Tropic of Capricorn is one of the five major circles of latitude that mark maps of the Earth. It currently (Epoch 2012) lies 23° 26′ 16″ [1] south of the Equator.
It is currently drifting north at the rate of almost half a second (0.47″) of latitude, which is about 15 metres, per year (it was at exactly 23° 27' S in year 1917).[2]
---snip---

[link to en.wikipedia.org]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward


Still no answer, TBar?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21389207


You really are that dumb. Your answer was in the link YOU posted. No One else figured it out either, gee, what does that infer? It was answered back here Thread: Have You Noticed The Sun Has "Moved"? Post Your Evidence / Stories Here! (Page 25)

Nutation [link to en.wikipedia.org] They even have pretty pictures for You.

I'll post the procedure I post every time the 'tards bring up this subject. You don't need a compass to check the bearing of Sunset/Rise. All you have to do is use the Ruler Tool in Google Earth to measure the bearing of some conspicuous place near you, that you stand, to the landmark the sun is behind. It's good for those that have really bad compasses and don't know what Variation & Deviation mean. Then you can compute the expected bearing from the Amplitude calculation from Bowditch Table 22 and the Nautical Almanac. Usually after I post this the thread ends, it works exceptionally well.

 Quoting: TBar1984


WTF are you babbling about? Are you 'talking' to me?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21389207

This is the Coward that posted the above isn't it? You Cowards are hard to keep track of.
 Quoting: Coward

Go to your own link, start reading, and clicking links. You will get to here "Nutation makes a small change to the angle at which the Earth tilts with respect to the Sun, thereby moving the location of the Tropic of Cancer, the most northerly latitude which the Sun can reach directly overhead. All four major circles of latitude that are defined by the Earth's tilt (both Tropical Circles and both Polar Circles) will shift correspondingly." [link to en.wikipedia.org]

It was answered here Thread: Have You Noticed The Sun Has "Moved"? Post Your Evidence / Stories Here! (Page 25) Yesterday...
Menow
User ID: 1394150
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08/06/2012 12:33 PM
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Re: Have You Noticed The Sun Has "Moved"? Post Your Evidence / Stories Here!
This is from her original post..

Two years ago I remarked to my husband that the sun appeared to be setting slightly more north than it had they years prior. I noticed this from the positions I would have to take in order to capture a great backyard sunset shot.



Who is disingenuous..?
You are apparently retarded.

I rest my case.

Hoisted with your own petard.. chuckle

:turd:
 Quoting: Waterbug


"There is a clear patch of almost all-day sun in an area that was always shaded."

Nice cherry-picking. That quote, and what others have said on this thread, is a claim of MANY degrees of deviation. Furthermore, ANY change visible by eye would be a RADICAL deviation, astronomically speaking, yet you continue to post tidbits showing variations which are several orders of magnitude too small to be seen by eye. How droll.

Care to try again? How much do YOU claim the sun is out of place? In degrees, please.
Waterbug

User ID: 1295673
United States
08/06/2012 12:37 PM

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Re: Have You Noticed The Sun Has "Moved"? Post Your Evidence / Stories Here!
You don't understand that there are tens of thousands of amateur astronomers all around the world? Seriously??
 Quoting: Menow 1394150


Most of whom are guided and instructed in how to operate their equipment by 'experts'. They can't figure anything out independently by their own merits...

Your statement has no value. Try again.derp
Anonymous Coward
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Germany
08/06/2012 12:37 PM
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Re: Have You Noticed The Sun Has "Moved"? Post Your Evidence / Stories Here!
Why do the disinfo shills keep refusing to measure the position of the Sun?
book
 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz, FCD


Just because it is the truth. You can deny it your whole life, but it is still the truth.
Waterbug

User ID: 1295673
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08/06/2012 12:39 PM

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Re: Have You Noticed The Sun Has "Moved"? Post Your Evidence / Stories Here!
They're here....

Ganging up. chuckle

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