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Have You Noticed The Sun Has "Moved"? Post Your Evidence / Stories Here!

 
Waterbug

User ID: 1295673
United States
08/06/2012 03:34 PM

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Re: Have You Noticed The Sun Has "Moved"? Post Your Evidence / Stories Here!
MISNOMER! Would explain why the sun appears to be out of place and the Moon from an Earthly Point Of View. But there in Lies the Problem. Note the LIE. Misnomer is what they don't want You to Know About or These Guys to Talk About. From your Prospective, Yes the Sun and Moon have Moved.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21371193


Maybe somebody else knows what you are talking about, but I sure don't. Either spell it out or GTFO.
 Quoting: Menow 18943200


This isn't your thread, dickbreath. Quit making feeble demands. Anyone can post here.
Intimidate much..?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 7969931
Czech Republic
08/06/2012 03:39 PM
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Re: Have You Noticed The Sun Has "Moved"? Post Your Evidence / Stories Here!
Hey Retard,
last summer I measured 8 to 10 degrees, varying from day to day. That's proof enough for myself.

What about your proof that the sun ist NOT out of place?
How do you explain the melting in greenland?
How do you explain the animal die offs?
How do you explain the DUMBs and ghost cities?
How do you explain the heating of the other planets?
etc, pp, the WTF-List goes on and on...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21389207

Sounds like a Poleshit-Nancy-Shill ...

 Quoting: Hydra


So you want to tell me these are all fairytails?
(I editet the rest of your wothless babbling out...)
Hydra

User ID: 21403984
Germany
08/06/2012 03:46 PM

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Re: Have You Noticed The Sun Has "Moved"? Post Your Evidence / Stories Here!
Simplified explanation..

The earth spins on its axis at 23.5 degrees off of vertical.
This is not constant and changes with the distribution of mass.

The amount of wobble is determined by monitoring distant objects such as quasars. The position of all the planets, earth included, is determined by celestial reference.. center of the solar system.. and calculated using 212 astronomical bodies.

To know our precise location we use Very Long Baseline Interferometry[VLBI] which can't be operated continually due to the complexity and expense.. radio-telescopic observations from all over the globe, basically. We need this information for GPS operation. It is precise but could be more precise with new ring laser gyroscopic technology which will operate from the poles. Not perfected but they are working on it.

We know that the north pole is migrating along 79 degrees West at a rate of about 10 centimeters annually and this value is increasing and accelerating. This is the rebound effect from the loss of ice mass that once covered large portions of the earth.

The Greenland melt is estimated to be increasing axial tilt by about 3 centimeters a year and is expected to increase. Ocean warming and expansion is pushing water onto shallow ocean shelves, changing the distribution of mass. This is causing the the northern pole of Earth's spin axis to shift by roughly 1.5 centimeters per year in the direction of Alaska and Hawaii.
Other factors include crust and mantle movement and effects from El Nino which also shift mass.

Warming temperature also affects rate of spin.. as do perihelion and aphelion.
There are other factors which have effects but I'm not going any further than I have at this time.

This information is not hidden. It is all available on the web..
 Quoting: Waterbug


Once more - for the slow-witted:

Why do you mix up degrees and centimeters?
Do you intend that people misinterpret degrees with centimeters (OMG Erth axis tilted by 10 deg or 3 deg ...)?
Why not stay at degrees?

To give you (and others) the numbers: 3 cm correspond to approx. 0.0000000005 deg.
For comparison: The Chandler Wobble* can shift the axis by up to 10 m/p.a = 0,0000164°

* The Chandler Wobble is induced by changes in mass distribution during the seasons e.g. rainfalls, the melting of ice, El Nino, ...

Nice copy & paste from Wikipedia - but it is of advantage if the quoter understands what she/he quotes.
 Quoting: Hydra




Nonsense..? Really...?

Considering the fact that I purposefully used only information from scientific publications to back up my opinion..
 Quoting: Waterbug

But apperently didn't understand the information.

... maybe you should take it up with the scientists who published the papers..
 Quoting: Waterbug

No need to do so - the scientific papers backup our claims:

10.0 cm correspond to ~ 0.00000000250 deg
3.0 cm correspond to ~ 0.000000000750 deg
1.5 cm correspond to ~ 0.000000000375 deg



.
If the Moon is off, if Earth wobbles or if there is a pole shift
how can things like this, predicted decades ago, happen?

aseindia
Annular Solar Eclipse - January 15, 2010 - Rameshwaram, India
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 907170
United States
08/06/2012 03:47 PM
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Re: Have You Noticed The Sun Has "Moved"? Post Your Evidence / Stories Here!
threadhi
Menow
User ID: 18943200
United States
08/06/2012 03:48 PM
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Re: Have You Noticed The Sun Has "Moved"? Post Your Evidence / Stories Here!
MISNOMER! Would explain why the sun appears to be out of place and the Moon from an Earthly Point Of View. But there in Lies the Problem. Note the LIE. Misnomer is what they don't want You to Know About or These Guys to Talk About. From your Prospective, Yes the Sun and Moon have Moved.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21371193


Maybe somebody else knows what you are talking about, but I sure don't. Either spell it out or GTFO.
 Quoting: Menow 18943200


This isn't your thread, dickbreath. Quit making feeble demands. Anyone can post here.
Intimidate much..?
 Quoting: Waterbug


Obfuscate much? What does "MISNOMER!" have to do with what we are talking about? On the other hand, I'm sure you don't care- you just like having cryptic stuff posted which you can pretend have anything to do with the claims of this thread.
Hydra

User ID: 21403984
Germany
08/06/2012 03:56 PM

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Re: Have You Noticed The Sun Has "Moved"? Post Your Evidence / Stories Here!
Hey Retard,
last summer I measured 8 to 10 degrees, varying from day to day. That's proof enough for myself.

What about your proof that the sun ist NOT out of place?
How do you explain the melting in greenland?
How do you explain the animal die offs?
How do you explain the DUMBs and ghost cities?
How do you explain the heating of the other planets?
etc, pp, the WTF-List goes on and on...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21389207

Sounds like a Poleshit-Nancy-Shill ...

 Quoting: Hydra


So you want to tell me these are all fairytails?
(I editet the rest of your wothless babbling out...)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7969931





Hey Retard,
last summer I measured 8 to 10 degrees, varying from day to day.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7969931

Evidence please


What about your proof that the sun ist NOT out of place?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7969931

Evidence given before including links (solar eclipse may 2012, Venus transit June 2012)


How do you explain the melting in greenland?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7969931

Evidence please, that it's related in any way to an alleged "out of position Sun"

How do you explain the animal die offs?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7969931

Evidence please, that it's related in any way to an alleged "out of position Sun"

How do you explain the DUMBs and ghost cities?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7969931

Evidence please, that it's related in any way to an alleged "out of position Sun"

How do you explain the heating of the other planets?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7969931

Evidence please, that it's related in any way to an alleged "out of position Sun"

etc, pp, the WTF-List goes on and on...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7969931

Evidence please, that "etc, pp, the WTF-List goes on and on" is related in any way to an alleged "out of position Sun"


.
If the Moon is off, if Earth wobbles or if there is a pole shift
how can things like this, predicted decades ago, happen?

aseindia
Annular Solar Eclipse - January 15, 2010 - Rameshwaram, India
TBar1984

User ID: 13725461
United States
08/06/2012 03:59 PM
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Re: Have You Noticed The Sun Has "Moved"? Post Your Evidence / Stories Here!
It was answered back here Thread: Have You Noticed The Sun Has "Moved"? Post Your Evidence / Stories Here! (Page 25)

Nutation [link to en.wikipedia.org] They even have pretty pictures for You.

I'll post the procedure I post every time the 'tards bring up this subject. You don't need a compass to check the bearing of Sunset/Rise. All you have to do is use the Ruler Tool in Google Earth to measure the bearing of some conspicuous place near you, that you stand, to the landmark the sun is behind. It's good for those that have really bad compasses and don't know what Variation & Deviation mean. Then you can compute the expected bearing from the Amplitude calculation from Bowditch Table 22 and the Nautical Almanac. Usually after I post this the thread ends, it works exceptionally well.

...

Here, watch;



The Ecliptic
"The axis of the Earth is undergoing a precessional motion similar to that of a top spinning with its axis tilted. In about 25,800 years the axis completes a cycle and returns to the position from which it started. Since the celestial equator is 90° from the celestial poles, it too is moving. The result is a slow westward movement of the equinoxes and solstices, which has already carried them about 30°, or one constellation, along the ecliptic from the positions they occupied when named more than 2,000 years ago. Since sidereal hour angle is measured from the vernal equinox, and declination from the celestial equator, the coordinates of celestial bodies would be changing even if the bodies themselves were stationary. This westward motion of the equinoxes along the ecliptic is called precession of the equinoxes. The total amount, called general precession, is about 50 seconds of arc per year. It may be considered divided into two components: precession in right ascension (about 46.10 seconds per year) measured along the celestial equator, and precession in declination (about 20.04" per year) measured perpendicular to the celestial equator. The annual change in the coordinates of any given star, due to precession alone, depends upon its position on the celestial sphere, since these coordinates are measured relative to the polar axis while the precessional motion is relative to the ecliptic axis.

Due to precession of the equinoxes, the celestial poles are slowly describing circles in the sky. The north celestial pole is moving closer to Polaris, which it will pass at a distance of approximately 28 minutes about the year 2102. Following this, the polar distance will increase, and eventually other stars, in their turn, will become the Pole Star.

The precession of the Earth’s axis is the result of gravitational forces exerted principally by the Sun and Moon on the Earth’s equatorial bulge. The spinning Earth responds to these forces in the manner of a gyroscope. Regression of the nodes introduces certain irregularities known as nutation in the precessional motion. See Figure 1519c."
[link to en.wikisource.org]

Tropic of Capricorn
[link to en.wikipedia.org]
"The Tropic of Capricorn is so named because when the Sun reaches the zenith at this latitude, it is entering the tropical sign of Capricorn (winter solstice). When it was named, about 2,000 years ago, the sun was also in the direction of the constellation Capricornus (capricorn is Latin for goat horn) at the December solstice. In modern times the sun appears in the constellation Sagittarius during this time. The change is due to precession of the equinoxes. The word "tropic" itself comes from the Greek tropos, meaning turn, referring to the fact that the sun appears to "turn back" at the solstices..."

SEE THE ABOVE VIDEO.
 Quoting: TBar1984

Apparent Motion due to Revolution of the Earth
"...Apparent motions of planets and the Moon are due to a combination of their motions and those of the Earth. If the rotation of the Earth were stopped, the combined apparent motion due to the revolutions of the Earth and other bodies would be similar to that occurring if both rotation and revolution of the Earth were stopped. Stars would appear nearly stationary in the sky but would undergo a small annual cycle of change due to aberration. The motion of the Earth in its orbit is sufficiently fast to cause the light from stars to appear to shift slightly in the direction of the Earth’s motion. This is similar to the effect one experiences when walking in vertically-falling rain that appears to come from ahead due to the observer’s own forward motion. The apparent direction of the light ray from the star is the vector difference of the motion of light and the motion of the Earth, similar to that of apparent wind on a moving vessel. This effect is most apparent for a body perpendicular to the line of travel of the Earth in its orbit, for which it reaches a maximum value of 20.5". The effect of aberration can be noted by comparing the coordinates (declination and sidereal hour angle) of various stars throughout the year. A change is observed in some bodies as the year progresses, but at the end of the year the values have returned almost to what they were at the beginning. The reason they do not return exactly is due to proper motion and precession of the equinoxes. It is also due to nutation, an irregularity in the motion of the Earth due to the disturbing effect of other celestial bodies, principally the Moon. Polar motion is a slight wobbling of the Earth about its axis of rotation and sometimes wandering of the poles. This motion, which does not exceed 40 feet from the mean position, produces slight variation of latitude and longitude of places on the Earth..."
[link to en.wikisource.org]

Nutation
"The nutation of a planet happens because of tidal forces that cause the precession of the equinoxes to vary over time so that the speed of precession is not constant. The nutation of the axis of the Earth was discovered in 1728 by the British astronomer James Bradley, but this nutation was not explained in detail until 20 years later.[1] Because the dynamic motions of the planets are so well-known, their nutations can be calculated to within arcseconds over periods of many decades. There is another disturbance of the Earth's rotation called polar motion that can be estimated for only a few months into the future because it is influenced by rapidly and unpredictably varying things such as ocean currents, wind systems, and motions in the liquid nickel-iron core of the Earth. Values of nutations are usually divided into components parallel and perpendicular to the ecliptic. The component that works along the ecliptic is known as the nutation in longitude. The component perpendicular to the ecliptic is known as the nutation in obliquity. Celestial coordinate systems are based on an "equator" and "equinox," which means a great circle in the sky that is the projection of the Earth's equator outwards, and a line, the Vernal equinox intersecting that circle, which determines the starting point for measurement of right ascension. These items are affected both by precession of the equinoxes and nutation, and thus depend on the theories applied to precession and nutation, and on the date used as a reference date for the coordinate system. In simpler terms, nutation (and precession) values are important in observation from Earth for calculating the apparent positions of astronomical objects...."

"Nutation makes a small change to the angle at which the Earth tilts with respect to the Sun, thereby moving the location of the Tropic of Cancer, the most northerly latitude which the Sun can reach directly overhead. All four major circles of latitude that are defined by the Earth's tilt (both Tropical Circles and both Polar Circles) will shift correspondingly."
[link to en.wikipedia.org]

YES, IT IS SUPPOSED TO DO THIS.
Just because you don't know how things are 'supposed to be' doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the way things are...
 Quoting: TBar1984


...


So, no answer 21389207?
 Quoting: Menow 1394150


I'm not claiming anything. I just believe what I see with my own eyes. And: yes, the sun is out of place. And it's more than just 0.5 degrees.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21389207

 Quoting: TBar1984

I'll post the procedure I post every time the 'tards bring up this subject. You don't need a compass to check the bearing of Sunset/Rise. All you have to do is use the Ruler Tool in Google Earth to measure the bearing of some conspicuous place near you, that you stand, to the landmark the sun is behind. It's good for those that have really bad compasses and don't know what Variation & Deviation mean. Then you can compute the expected bearing from the Amplitude calculation from Bowditch Table 22 and the Nautical Almanac. Usually after I post this the thread ends, it works exceptionally well.

You don't need a shitty little compass. Now, if you had a compass like I used to work with and adjust, it might be a worthy reading.
Read the part about Magnetic Compass Deviation Tables, My name was on a few of those Deviation Cards a while back [link to www1.nga.mil]
 Quoting: TBar1984

yawn
Waterbug

User ID: 1295673
United States
08/06/2012 04:00 PM

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Re: Have You Noticed The Sun Has "Moved"? Post Your Evidence / Stories Here!
Simplified explanation..

The earth spins on its axis at 23.5 degrees off of vertical.
This is not constant and changes with the distribution of mass.

The amount of wobble is determined by monitoring distant objects such as quasars. The position of all the planets, earth included, is determined by celestial reference.. center of the solar system.. and calculated using 212 astronomical bodies.

To know our precise location we use Very Long Baseline Interferometry[VLBI] which can't be operated continually due to the complexity and expense.. radio-telescopic observations from all over the globe, basically. We need this information for GPS operation. It is precise but could be more precise with new ring laser gyroscopic technology which will operate from the poles. Not perfected but they are working on it.

We know that the north pole is migrating along 79 degrees West at a rate of about 10 centimeters annually and this value is increasing and accelerating. This is the rebound effect from the loss of ice mass that once covered large portions of the earth.

The Greenland melt is estimated to be increasing axial tilt by about 3 centimeters a year and is expected to increase. Ocean warming and expansion is pushing water onto shallow ocean shelves, changing the distribution of mass. This is causing the the northern pole of Earth's spin axis to shift by roughly 1.5 centimeters per year in the direction of Alaska and Hawaii.
Other factors include crust and mantle movement and effects from El Nino which also shift mass.

Warming temperature also affects rate of spin.. as do perihelion and aphelion.
There are other factors which have effects but I'm not going any further than I have at this time.

This information is not hidden. It is all available on the web..
 Quoting: Waterbug


Once more - for the slow-witted:

Why do you mix up degrees and centimeters?
Do you intend that people misinterpret degrees with centimeters (OMG Erth axis tilted by 10 deg or 3 deg ...)?
Why not stay at degrees?

To give you (and others) the numbers: 3 cm correspond to approx. 0.0000000005 deg.
For comparison: The Chandler Wobble* can shift the axis by up to 10 m/p.a = 0,0000164°

* The Chandler Wobble is induced by changes in mass distribution during the seasons e.g. rainfalls, the melting of ice, El Nino, ...

Nice copy & paste from Wikipedia - but it is of advantage if the quoter understands what she/he quotes.
 Quoting: Hydra




Nonsense..? Really...?

Considering the fact that I purposefully used only information from scientific publications to back up my opinion..
 Quoting: Waterbug

But apperently didn't understand the information.

... maybe you should take it up with the scientists who published the papers..
 Quoting: Waterbug

No need to do so - the scientific papers backup our claims:

10.0 cm correspond to ~ 0.00000000250 deg
3.0 cm correspond to ~ 0.000000000750 deg
1.5 cm correspond to ~ 0.000000000375 deg



.
 Quoting: Hydra


Maybe the published scientists who wrote the articles decided it was easier for the layman to understand metric values..How the hell would I know?

Anyway.. I never use wiki. I used published papers and articles for reference.

And none of it is cut and paste..

I typed it all by myself..

shitstir2
Menow
User ID: 18943200
United States
08/06/2012 04:05 PM
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Re: Have You Noticed The Sun Has "Moved"? Post Your Evidence / Stories Here!
Anyway.. I never use wiki. I used published papers and articles for reference.

 Quoting: Waterbug


AGAIN: You are referencing such articles as an explanation or support for WHAT SPECIFIC CLAIM?
Waterbug

User ID: 1295673
United States
08/06/2012 04:06 PM

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Re: Have You Noticed The Sun Has "Moved"? Post Your Evidence / Stories Here!
Anyway.. I never use wiki. I used published papers and articles for reference.

 Quoting: Waterbug


AGAIN: You are referencing such articles as an explanation or support for WHAT SPECIFIC CLAIM?
 Quoting: Menow 18943200


Read the thread title.
Menow
User ID: 18943200
United States
08/06/2012 04:20 PM
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Re: Have You Noticed The Sun Has "Moved"? Post Your Evidence / Stories Here!
Anyway.. I never use wiki. I used published papers and articles for reference.

 Quoting: Waterbug


AGAIN: You are referencing such articles as an explanation or support for WHAT SPECIFIC CLAIM?
 Quoting: Menow 18943200


Read the thread title.
 Quoting: Waterbug


Nope. More obfuscation on your part. This thread is about a DRAMATIC, OBVIOUS BY EYE abnormal positioning of the sun in the sky. You just won't quantify YOUR claim on this so you can weasel and dance around the facts and troll with irrelevant shit. Now- How do those articles support the claim of a LARGE anomaly?
Waterbug

User ID: 1295673
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08/06/2012 04:34 PM

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Re: Have You Noticed The Sun Has "Moved"? Post Your Evidence / Stories Here!
Anyway.. I never use wiki. I used published papers and articles for reference.

 Quoting: Waterbug


AGAIN: You are referencing such articles as an explanation or support for WHAT SPECIFIC CLAIM?
 Quoting: Menow 18943200


Read the thread title.
 Quoting: Waterbug


Nope. More obfuscation on your part. This thread is about a DRAMATIC, OBVIOUS BY EYE abnormal positioning of the sun in the sky. You just won't quantify YOUR claim on this so you can weasel and dance around the facts and troll with irrelevant shit. Now- How do those articles support the claim of a LARGE anomaly?
 Quoting: Menow 18943200


We were talking about where the sun rays are hitting in places they never did before.. through our windows and in our yards.. until you fuckers hijacked the thread..

I gave an opinion on what I think is happening.

You seem to think you can convince me that I can't believe my own eyes and my own research. Keep up the good work...

You might try rubbing a lamp.
Hydra

User ID: 21403984
Germany
08/06/2012 04:46 PM

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Re: Have You Noticed The Sun Has "Moved"? Post Your Evidence / Stories Here!
Maybe the published scientists who wrote the articles decided it was easier for the layman to understand metric values..How the hell would I know?

Anyway.. I never use wiki. I used published papers and articles for reference.

And none of it is cut and paste..

I typed it all by myself..
 Quoting: Waterbug

There are papers that give both numbers: cm (inch) and (milli)arcsecond.

On the other hand it's simple trigonometry.


.
If the Moon is off, if Earth wobbles or if there is a pole shift
how can things like this, predicted decades ago, happen?

aseindia
Annular Solar Eclipse - January 15, 2010 - Rameshwaram, India
Menow
User ID: 18943200
United States
08/06/2012 04:53 PM
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Re: Have You Noticed The Sun Has "Moved"? Post Your Evidence / Stories Here!
...


AGAIN: You are referencing such articles as an explanation or support for WHAT SPECIFIC CLAIM?
 Quoting: Menow 18943200


Read the thread title.
 Quoting: Waterbug


Nope. More obfuscation on your part. This thread is about a DRAMATIC, OBVIOUS BY EYE abnormal positioning of the sun in the sky. You just won't quantify YOUR claim on this so you can weasel and dance around the facts and troll with irrelevant shit. Now- How do those articles support the claim of a LARGE anomaly?
 Quoting: Menow 18943200


We were talking about where the sun rays are hitting in places they never did before.. through our windows and in our yards..
 Quoting: Waterbug


EXACTLY! Which means a DRAMATIC, LARGE change in the track of the sun, hmm?

until you fuckers hijacked the thread..
 Quoting: Waterbug


Actually, it was YOU who "hijacked" the thread by posting irrelevant shit about TINY details about Earth's axis. I have been trying to refocus you on the actual claim being made here and get you to post something which relates to THAT! You have been avoiding doing that for many pages now.

I gave an opinion on what I think is happening.
 Quoting: Waterbug


Really? And what opinion is that? What good is your opinion when you only post items which have no relevance to it?

You seem to think you can convince me that I can't believe my own eyes and my own research.
 Quoting: Waterbug


So, your own eyes and "research" lead you to conclude that the sun and/or Earth's axis is HOW FAR off the norm. Answer in degrees, please.


Keep up the good work...
 Quoting: Waterbug


I intend to.

You might try rubbing a lamp.
 Quoting: Waterbug


Is that how you get your opinions?
Waterbug

User ID: 1295673
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08/06/2012 04:58 PM

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Re: Have You Noticed The Sun Has "Moved"? Post Your Evidence / Stories Here!
...


Read the thread title.
 Quoting: Waterbug


Nope. More obfuscation on your part. This thread is about a DRAMATIC, OBVIOUS BY EYE abnormal positioning of the sun in the sky. You just won't quantify YOUR claim on this so you can weasel and dance around the facts and troll with irrelevant shit. Now- How do those articles support the claim of a LARGE anomaly?
 Quoting: Menow 18943200


We were talking about where the sun rays are hitting in places they never did before.. through our windows and in our yards..
 Quoting: Waterbug


EXACTLY! Which means a DRAMATIC, LARGE change in the track of the sun, hmm?

until you fuckers hijacked the thread..
 Quoting: Waterbug


Actually, it was YOU who "hijacked" the thread by posting irrelevant shit about TINY details about Earth's axis. I have been trying to refocus you on the actual claim being made here and get you to post something which relates to THAT! You have been avoiding doing that for many pages now.

I gave an opinion on what I think is happening.
 Quoting: Waterbug


Really? And what opinion is that? What good is your opinion when you only post items which have no relevance to it?

You seem to think you can convince me that I can't believe my own eyes and my own research.
 Quoting: Waterbug


So, your own eyes and "research" lead you to conclude that the sun and/or Earth's axis is HOW FAR off the norm. Answer in degrees, please.


Keep up the good work...
 Quoting: Waterbug


I intend to.

You might try rubbing a lamp.
 Quoting: Waterbug


Is that how you get your opinions?
 Quoting: Menow 18943200


Well.. you are tenacious.. I'll give you that.

Bulldogs are jealous.

bulldog


Now.. tell everybody why I can't have an opinion..
Menow
User ID: 18943200
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08/06/2012 05:05 PM
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Re: Have You Noticed The Sun Has "Moved"? Post Your Evidence / Stories Here!
...


Nope. More obfuscation on your part. This thread is about a DRAMATIC, OBVIOUS BY EYE abnormal positioning of the sun in the sky. You just won't quantify YOUR claim on this so you can weasel and dance around the facts and troll with irrelevant shit. Now- How do those articles support the claim of a LARGE anomaly?
 Quoting: Menow 18943200


We were talking about where the sun rays are hitting in places they never did before.. through our windows and in our yards..
 Quoting: Waterbug


EXACTLY! Which means a DRAMATIC, LARGE change in the track of the sun, hmm?

until you fuckers hijacked the thread..
 Quoting: Waterbug


Actually, it was YOU who "hijacked" the thread by posting irrelevant shit about TINY details about Earth's axis. I have been trying to refocus you on the actual claim being made here and get you to post something which relates to THAT! You have been avoiding doing that for many pages now.

I gave an opinion on what I think is happening.
 Quoting: Waterbug


Really? And what opinion is that? What good is your opinion when you only post items which have no relevance to it?

You seem to think you can convince me that I can't believe my own eyes and my own research.
 Quoting: Waterbug


So, your own eyes and "research" lead you to conclude that the sun and/or Earth's axis is HOW FAR off the norm. Answer in degrees, please.


Keep up the good work...
 Quoting: Waterbug


I intend to.

You might try rubbing a lamp.
 Quoting: Waterbug


Is that how you get your opinions?
 Quoting: Menow 18943200


Well.. you are tenacious.. I'll give you that.

Bulldogs are jealous.

:bulldog:


Now.. tell everybody why I can't have an opinion..
 Quoting: Waterbug


I am ASKING for your opinion. Don't pretend I'm saying you shouldn't have one. Please be SPECIFIC and answer in degrees. An approximate figure is fine.
Halcyon Dayz, FCD
Contrarian's Contrarian

User ID: 19507663
Netherlands
08/06/2012 05:05 PM

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Re: Have You Noticed The Sun Has "Moved"? Post Your Evidence / Stories Here!
We were talking about where the sun rays are hitting in places they never did before.. through our windows and in our yards.. until you fuckers hijacked the thread..
 Quoting: Waterbug

Asking for evidence for such extraordinary claims is not "hijacking".

I gave an opinion on what I think is happening.
 Quoting: Waterbug

And it's wrong.

You seem to think you can convince me that I can't believe my own eyes
 Quoting: Waterbug

None of us is under the illusion we can reason an irrational person out of their irrational beliefs.
You and your socks are however not the only people reading this thing.

and my own research.
 Quoting: Waterbug

Your "research" talks about a shift in the OOM of 10 centimetres.
The Earth's circumference is 40,000 kilometres.

A shift of a 0.4 billionth can NOT be the reason why people think the Sun is NOTICEABLY out of position.

Are you just stupid, or are you a disinfo shill?

Now.. tell everybody why I can't have an opinion..
 Quoting: Waterbug

Opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one.

Your opinion has been shown to be wrong.
book
Hatred is a cancer upon the world.
It rots the mind and blackens the heart.


Hi! My name is Halcyon Dayz and I'm addicted to morans.
Hydra

User ID: 21403984
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08/06/2012 05:06 PM

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Re: Have You Noticed The Sun Has "Moved"? Post Your Evidence / Stories Here!
You don't understand that there are tens of thousands of amateur astronomers all around the world? Seriously??
 Quoting: Menow 1394150


Most of whom are guided and instructed in how to operate their equipment by 'experts'. They can't figure anything out independently by their own merits...

Your statement has no value. Try again.
 Quoting: Waterbug

May I try?

I use a non computer aided or guided telescope, just equipped with a tracking motor to compensate earth rotation.
I set it up at almost every point on Earth within 20 minutes with an accuracy, that allows me to make exposures of 30 minutes (close to the equator and the poles setup takes a little longer).

No 'experts' told me how to do so and operate a scope - I taught myself how to do it by reading the instructions I got with my first scope.

Thats about ten years ago. And the scope was a vintage Tasco 10K from the 1960s.
So I guess that the 'experts' writing the instructions in the 1960s already knew about the sun will be out of position in 2012.

(for my american and australian readers:)
<irony> So I guess that the 'experts' writing the instructions in the 1960s already knew about the sun will be out of position in 2012. </irony>


.
If the Moon is off, if Earth wobbles or if there is a pole shift
how can things like this, predicted decades ago, happen?

aseindia
Annular Solar Eclipse - January 15, 2010 - Rameshwaram, India
Waterbug

User ID: 1295673
United States
08/06/2012 05:16 PM

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Re: Have You Noticed The Sun Has "Moved"? Post Your Evidence / Stories Here!
...


We were talking about where the sun rays are hitting in places they never did before.. through our windows and in our yards..
 Quoting: Waterbug


EXACTLY! Which means a DRAMATIC, LARGE change in the track of the sun, hmm?

until you fuckers hijacked the thread..
 Quoting: Waterbug


Actually, it was YOU who "hijacked" the thread by posting irrelevant shit about TINY details about Earth's axis. I have been trying to refocus you on the actual claim being made here and get you to post something which relates to THAT! You have been avoiding doing that for many pages now.

I gave an opinion on what I think is happening.
 Quoting: Waterbug


Really? And what opinion is that? What good is your opinion when you only post items which have no relevance to it?

You seem to think you can convince me that I can't believe my own eyes and my own research.
 Quoting: Waterbug


So, your own eyes and "research" lead you to conclude that the sun and/or Earth's axis is HOW FAR off the norm. Answer in degrees, please.


Keep up the good work...
 Quoting: Waterbug


I intend to.

You might try rubbing a lamp.
 Quoting: Waterbug


Is that how you get your opinions?
 Quoting: Menow 18943200


Well.. you are tenacious.. I'll give you that.

Bulldogs are jealous.

bulldog


Now.. tell everybody why I can't have an opinion..
 Quoting: Waterbug


I am ASKING for your opinion.
 Quoting: Menow 18943200


I've already given it.
But you don't value my opinion..
You are attempting to get me to give specifics, when the highly-educated scientists who study these things in depth aren't even sure about it.. I'm just a musician.
Bait is for fishes, dude.

The only thing I can be specific about is your behavior on this thread... and you know what I think about that.
Waterbug

User ID: 1295673
United States
08/06/2012 05:23 PM

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Re: Have You Noticed The Sun Has "Moved"? Post Your Evidence / Stories Here!
You don't understand that there are tens of thousands of amateur astronomers all around the world? Seriously??
 Quoting: Menow 1394150


Most of whom are guided and instructed in how to operate their equipment by 'experts'. They can't figure anything out independently by their own merits...

Your statement has no value. Try again.
 Quoting: Waterbug

May I try?

I use a non computer aided or guided telescope, just equipped with a tracking motor to compensate earth rotation.
I set it up at almost every point on Earth within 20 minutes with an accuracy, that allows me to make exposures of 30 minutes (close to the equator and the poles setup takes a little longer).

No 'experts' told me how to do so and operate a scope - I taught myself how to do it by reading the instructions I got with my first scope.

Thats about ten years ago. And the scope was a vintage Tasco 10K from the 1960s.
So I guess that the 'experts' writing the instructions in the 1960s already knew about the sun will be out of position in 2012.

(for my american and australian readers:)
<irony> So I guess that the 'experts' writing the instructions in the 1960s already knew about the sun will be out of position in 2012. </irony>


.
 Quoting: Hydra


I said most.. not all. I am a self-taught musician.. doesn't mean I can't play.. or understand music theory..

Music is very mathematical..

But to play with soul and feeling... that can't be taught.
It is inherent.

Thinking independently is similar.
Waterbug

User ID: 1295673
United States
08/06/2012 05:32 PM

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Re: Have You Noticed The Sun Has "Moved"? Post Your Evidence / Stories Here!
Opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one.

Your opinion has been shown to be wrong.

book
 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz, FCD


I think so little of your opinion that I'm going to break my rule and use wiki to illuminate you..

Let me know if you'd like me to explain what it means..

donkey


[link to en.wikipedia.org]

[snip]
In general, an opinion is a subjective belief, and is the result of emotion or interpretation of facts.

Opinions are never right or wrong, they are merely a figment of what someone believes.
Menow
User ID: 18943200
United States
08/06/2012 06:00 PM
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Re: Have You Noticed The Sun Has "Moved"? Post Your Evidence / Stories Here!
...


EXACTLY! Which means a DRAMATIC, LARGE change in the track of the sun, hmm?

...


Actually, it was YOU who "hijacked" the thread by posting irrelevant shit about TINY details about Earth's axis. I have been trying to refocus you on the actual claim being made here and get you to post something which relates to THAT! You have been avoiding doing that for many pages now.

...


Really? And what opinion is that? What good is your opinion when you only post items which have no relevance to it?

...


So, your own eyes and "research" lead you to conclude that the sun and/or Earth's axis is HOW FAR off the norm. Answer in degrees, please.


...


I intend to.

...


Is that how you get your opinions?
 Quoting: Menow 18943200


Well.. you are tenacious.. I'll give you that.

Bulldogs are jealous.

:bulldog:


Now.. tell everybody why I can't have an opinion..
 Quoting: Waterbug


I am ASKING for your opinion.
 Quoting: Menow 18943200


I've already given it.
But you don't value my opinion..
You are attempting to get me to give specifics, when the highly-educated scientists who study these things in depth aren't even sure about it.. I'm just a musician.
Bait is for fishes, dude.

The only thing I can be specific about is your behavior on this thread... and you know what I think about that.
 Quoting: Waterbug


Yet MORE intentional obfuscation on your part, and also an outright LIE. You are STILL attempting to confuse two completely different things:

1) The central claim of this thread that there is a LARGE, DRAMATIC discrepancy in the location and/or track of the sun in the sky.

2) That there is scientific knowledge/understanding/papers on SMALL variations in the motions of astronomical objects including Earth.

Those two things are NOT MUTUALLY SUPPORTING as you attempt to imply!

Your LIE: That "the highly-educated scientists who study these things in depth..." have written papers which state that there is a LARGE, DRAMATIC anomaly in the orientation of Earth's axis or it's rotation, or the relative position of the sun.
Menow
User ID: 18943200
United States
08/06/2012 06:06 PM
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Re: Have You Noticed The Sun Has "Moved"? Post Your Evidence / Stories Here!
I've already given it.
 Quoting: Waterbug


And you asked if you should give it again. I said yes, because I have no idea what it is.


But you don't value my opinion..
 Quoting: Waterbug


If that was going to stop you from posting you would have been gone days ago. Stop making excuses. STATE YOUR POSITION, you weaseling wimp!

You are attempting to get me to give specifics,
 Quoting: Waterbug


Ya think??

when the highly-educated scientists who study these things in depth aren't even sure about it..
 Quoting: Waterbug


Bald-faced lie. Scientists are NOT wondering if Earth's axis is multiple degrees off of normal.

I'm just a musician.
Bait is for fishes, dude.

The only thing I can be specific about is your behavior on this thread... and you know what I think about that.
 Quoting: Waterbug



A.. and we are back to the personal attacks and avoiding the central point of the thread.
Menow
User ID: 18943200
United States
08/06/2012 06:25 PM
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Yes, Earth scientists, who are soo confused and bumbling and arrogant, somehow just sent another craft to soft-land on a distant celestial body. Must be dumb luck, since according to Waterbug they are baffled about Earth's axis and rotation.

[link to news.yahoo.com]
Waterbug

User ID: 1295673
United States
08/06/2012 06:56 PM

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Re: Have You Noticed The Sun Has "Moved"? Post Your Evidence / Stories Here!
Yes, Earth scientists, who are soo confused and bumbling and arrogant, somehow just sent another craft to soft-land on a distant celestial body. Must be dumb luck, since according to Waterbug they are baffled about Earth's axis and rotation.

[link to news.yahoo.com]
 Quoting: Menow 18943200


Don't put words in my mouth. I said they weren't sure.
Scientists aren't infallible. They are proven wrong all the time.
The mechanics and interactions of the universe are still somewhat of a mystery. Why do you think they sent the craft to Mars..?
Just for kicks..?

But.. you know this.. don't 'cha, Einstein..?
Hydra

User ID: 21403984
Germany
08/06/2012 06:56 PM

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Deadlock?


On the one side we have the "debunker-shills" (me included) stating that there is a slightly, natural change in earth axis per year, not visible to the naked eye.
On the other hand we have the "suntard-shills" (almost) all stating, that there was a change in suns position visible during the last month or year.

What makes the axis of Earth wobble?

There are three main causes (and some minor, negligible causes):
(I made a quick and dirty calculation - thus there may be a small error)

Precession of the equinoxes
Period: 25,700 to 25,800 years
Rotation: 360°
Reason: Gravitational influence of other Planets / Moon
Earth wobble:
360/25,7000(25,800) = 0,01395 deg to 0,01401 deg per annum
or 25,700(25,800)/360 = 1 deg in 71,39 to 71,67 years
calculable = yes, measurable = yes, visible = yes, over a longer time scale


Nutation
Period: ~ 18.6 years
Amplitude: 9.2"/6.8"
Reason: Gravitational influence of the Moon
Earth wobble: 9.2"/18.6 = 0.496" per annum
0.496" = 0,0001374 deg
calculable = yes, measurable = yes, visible = no


Chandler Wobble
Period: 433 days
Amplitude: up to 0.07"
Reason: Seasonal changes in mass distribution of Earth
Earth wobble: 0.07*365/433 = 0.059" per annum
0.059" = 0,0000164 deg
calculable = yes, measurable = yes, visible = no



(For comparison I give the dates of the Japan EQ)
Earh quake Japan
Period: -
Amplitude: 2.7 milliarcseconds = 0,0000027"
Reason: Earh quake
Earth wobble: 0,0000027" = 0.00000000075 deg
calculable = yes, measurable = may be, visible = no


The main cause of the wobble is the precession of the equinoxes - in 71 years it adds up to 1 deg.
The other changes are measurable but not visible.

If you live in a house since 30 or 40 years it is possible, that walls or windows in the shadow before, get sun for some time now.

If you say: "I notice this since ten years" I say, it's possible.

If you say: "I notice this since some month" I say, such a fast change is not possible.

You read all the 2012 bullshit about Nibiru and that a Poleshift has already happend on some BS-webpages.
You go outside, look at the wall and think "F*ck, this wall never had sun - they are right, the Earth axis has shifted."
Wrong, the Earth axis hasn't shifted more than normal - the wall got sun already years ago.
But because of your readings you pay attention and "notice" right now, that the wall gets sun.


The path of the solar eclipse in May was calculated decades ago.
If the polar axis had tilted only by a fraction of a degree, the path would have been hundreds of kilometer off.
Same applies to the Venus transit in June.



.
If the Moon is off, if Earth wobbles or if there is a pole shift
how can things like this, predicted decades ago, happen?

aseindia
Annular Solar Eclipse - January 15, 2010 - Rameshwaram, India
Menow
User ID: 18943200
United States
08/06/2012 07:05 PM
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Re: Have You Noticed The Sun Has "Moved"? Post Your Evidence / Stories Here!
Yes, Earth scientists, who are soo confused and bumbling and arrogant, somehow just sent another craft to soft-land on a distant celestial body. Must be dumb luck, since according to Waterbug they are baffled about Earth's axis and rotation.

[link to news.yahoo.com]
 Quoting: Menow 18943200


Don't put words in my mouth. I said they weren't sure.
Scientists aren't infallible. They are proven wrong all the time.
 Quoting: Waterbug


Not by YOU, bucko! You are sooo far being able to do anything like that.


The mechanics and interactions of the universe are still somewhat of a mystery.
 Quoting: Waterbug


Somewhat? Aye, there's the rub! You try to imply that scientists are confused about things as gross as Earth's axis tilt to several degrees. That implication is ludicrous, yet you KEEP making it!

Why do you think they sent the craft to Mars..?
Just for kicks..?

But.. you know this.. don't 'cha, Einstein..?
 Quoting: Waterbug


They did NOT send that craft to Mars to study the mechanics of it's rotation or anything of that sort. You just don't care about the truth at all, do you? You just blurt out whatever nonsense comes to mind.
Menow
User ID: 18943200
United States
08/06/2012 07:05 PM
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You are sooo far FROM being able to do anything like that.
Menow
User ID: 18943200
United States
08/06/2012 07:11 PM
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Re: Have You Noticed The Sun Has "Moved"? Post Your Evidence / Stories Here!
Yes, Earth scientists, who are soo confused and bumbling and arrogant, somehow just sent another craft to soft-land on a distant celestial body. Must be dumb luck, since according to Waterbug they are baffled about Earth's axis and rotation.

[link to news.yahoo.com]
 Quoting: Menow 18943200


Don't put words in my mouth. I said they weren't sure.

 Quoting: Waterbug


You imply they aren't "sure" about the subject of this thread, which is that there are GROSS changes in the track of the sun in the sky. It simply isn't true- You are being disingenuous in your implication. It's called: "Disinfo".
Waterbug

User ID: 1295673
United States
08/06/2012 07:12 PM

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Re: Have You Noticed The Sun Has "Moved"? Post Your Evidence / Stories Here!
Deadlock?


On the one side we have the "debunker-shills" (me included) stating that there is a slightly, natural change in earth axis per year, not visible to the naked eye.
On the other hand we have the "suntard-shills" (almost) all stating, that there was a change in suns position visible during the last month or year.

What makes the axis of Earth wobble?

There are three main causes (and some minor, negligible causes):
(I made a quick and dirty calculation - thus there may be a small error)

Precession of the equinoxes
Period: 25,700 to 25,800 years
Rotation: 360°
Reason: Gravitational influence of other Planets / Moon
Earth wobble:
360/25,7000(25,800) = 0,01395 deg to 0,01401 deg per annum
or 25,700(25,800)/360 = 1 deg in 71,39 to 71,67 years
calculable = yes, measurable = yes, visible = yes, over a longer time scale


Nutation
Period: ~ 18.6 years
Amplitude: 9.2"/6.8"
Reason: Gravitational influence of the Moon
Earth wobble: 9.2"/18.6 = 0.496" per annum
0.496" = 0,0001374 deg
calculable = yes, measurable = yes, visible = no


Chandler Wobble
Period: 433 days
Amplitude: up to 0.07"
Reason: Seasonal changes in mass distribution of Earth
Earth wobble: 0.07*365/433 = 0.059" per annum
0.059" = 0,0000164 deg
calculable = yes, measurable = yes, visible = no



(For comparison I give the dates of the Japan EQ)
Earh quake Japan
Period: -
Amplitude: 2.7 milliarcseconds = 0,0000027"
Reason: Earh quake
Earth wobble: 0,0000027" = 0.00000000075 deg
calculable = yes, measurable = may be, visible = no


The main cause of the wobble is the precession of the equinoxes - in 71 years it adds up to 1 deg.
The other changes are measurable but not visible.

If you live in a house since 30 or 40 years it is possible, that walls or windows in the shadow before, get sun for some time now.

If you say: "I notice this since ten years" I say, it's possible.

If you say: "I notice this since some month" I say, such a fast change is not possible.

You read all the 2012 bullshit about Nibiru and that a Poleshift has already happend on some BS-webpages.
You go outside, look at the wall and think "F*ck, this wall never had sun - they are right, the Earth axis has shifted."
Wrong, the Earth axis hasn't shifted more than normal - the wall got sun already years ago.
But because of your readings you pay attention and "notice" right now, that the wall gets sun.


The path of the solar eclipse in May was calculated decades ago.
If the polar axis had tilted only by a fraction of a degree, the path would have been hundreds of kilometer off.
Same applies to the Venus transit in June.



.
 Quoting: Hydra


But.. the axial tilt has been ongoing.. this is not disputed... by real scientists, anyway.

How do you then explain the ability to predict an eclipse path years into the future..? It's because they know about it and take it into account when calculating.. as they do precession, etc.

And how do you know what I read or don't.. and what I believe or don't..

You must be a fucking mind-reader.
Can you read what I'm thinking right now..?

brain

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