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Fed Judge rules your Bank Accounts are not Your property, banks not responsible if they lose your funds.

 
NO EXAGGERATION
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08/11/2012 11:56 AM
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Fed Judge rules your Bank Accounts are not Your property, banks not responsible if they lose your funds.
GAME OVER

RED ALERT: It's Open Season on All Customer Funds

Posted by Ann Barnhardt - August 10, AD 2012 3:33 PM MST


The NFA is collusion with the Banksters, government and judiciary have achieved their goal. The entire concept of "customer segregated funds" is officially, completely, legally dead.

Guys, it is OVER. I know that many of you are still cowering in normalcy bias, unable to deal with reality, unable to face the world as it is, but you have GOT to snap out of it. The marketplace is DESTROYED. You CANNOT be in these markets. All legal protections are now officially gone.

Do you remember how I told you about the Ponzi scheme that imploded in 2007 called "Sentinel Management Group" that stole over $500 million in customer funds? The NFA was the auditing regulator of Sentinel, and the NFA admitted after the Sentinel Ponzi imploded that they signed off on their audits even though the NFA claimed not fully understanding Sentinel's books or accounting methods. In other words, the NFA didn't really audit Sentinel at all - they just PRETENDED to audit them, drew up some forms, had some robosigners sign off, and then just hoped that when the shit hit the fan, everyone in the industry would be so terrified of the NFA that no one would hold the NFA accountable for their criminal malfeasance - or even talk about it.

Sentinel took customer segregated money and fraudulently used it as the collateral on a loan from Bank of New York Mellon for $312 million to fund their own in-house proprietary trading operations. When the Sentinel Ponzi collapsed, BNYM sued to go to the front of the line of creditors - ahead of the customers of Sentinel whose money was fraudulently used as collateral, which has now been "linguistically sanitized" into the word "hypothecated".

The federal appeals court ruled yesterday that not only does BNYM stay at the front of the line, but that using customer segregated funds as collateral is NOT a crime, and that co-mingling customer segregated funds with proprietary funds is NOT fraud.

Here is the Reuters piece.

Read this quote from the ruling, which is, in essence, the entire financial market paradigm being guillotined:

That Sentinel failed to keep client funds properly segregated is not, on its own, sufficient to rule as a matter of law that Sentinel acted ‘with actual intent to hinder, delay, or defraud' its customers.

U.S. Circuit Judge John D. Tinder


What this means is that even if Jon Corzine is somehow dragged into court by private citizens, because you know damn good and well that the Justice Department will never, ever touch him, Corzine now has a legal precedent, likely from a bribed or otherwise coerced Federal Appeals Court, explicitly stating that an FCM can use customer deposits to pay its debts, and that the customers themselves are subjugated and have basically no legal right to their own monies, no matter what the law says, or what legal assurances, claims or guarantees are made to that customer about their funds held with an FCM or any other brokerage or depository institution. The "secured" party at the front of the line will always be the mega-bank who made the fraudulent loan using the stolen customer funds as collateral.

In other words, all customer funds in the United States are now the legal property of JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs, BNYM, or whichever megabank is the counterparty on the loans the FCM or depository institution takes out in order to fund its mega-levered proprietary in-house trading desks.

----------------------

50%, rest at link

[link to barnhardt.biz]
Anonymous Coward
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08/11/2012 12:04 PM
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Re: Fed Judge rules your Bank Accounts are not Your property, banks not responsible if they lose your funds.
bad link
Anonymous Coward
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08/11/2012 12:05 PM
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Re: Fed Judge rules your Bank Accounts are not Your property, banks not responsible if they lose your funds.
bad link
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8084990


Worked fine for me

and we're screwed.
Anonymous Coward
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08/11/2012 12:07 PM
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no, it wont load...any other links????
Anonymous Coward
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08/11/2012 12:09 PM
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This is beyond belief. The game really IS over!
Anonymous Coward
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08/11/2012 12:14 PM
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So the fat lady has sung?

violin
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08/11/2012 12:15 PM
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no, it wont load...any other links????
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1221000


Link works fine for me.

Just type in www dot barnhardt dot biz
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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08/11/2012 12:17 PM
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So the fat lady has sung?

violin
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21714514


Ann is anything but fat, but she sure it singin the funeral dirge here.

Someone Ship this thread to Pin land.
CatBTX

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08/11/2012 12:20 PM

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bump for pin.

This is bad!!
Anonymous Coward
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08/11/2012 12:21 PM
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Re: Fed Judge rules your Bank Accounts are not Your property, banks not responsible if they lose your funds.
Anyone notice this?

Posted by Ann Barnhardt - August 10, AD 2012 3:33 PM MST

Hmmmm
Mickeyblue
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08/11/2012 12:23 PM
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Yes, it loads but it takes a couple of efforts(times).
Zombietard

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08/11/2012 12:23 PM
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You didn´t save that money!! Somebody else did!
oridin
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08/11/2012 12:24 PM
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They are slowly taking this country apart and the sheep still don't get it. They listen to dirtbag on tv and think everything is fine. He says one thing but does another.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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08/11/2012 12:24 PM
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bump for pin.

This is bad!!
 Quoting: CatBTX


I recommend that this thread be Perma-pinned for half the day to spread awareness.
G. House

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08/11/2012 12:33 PM

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This has no effect on the so called "little guy.

The majority of individual bank accounts are federally insured to $250,000.

These are the big players that you all here at GLP seem to despise that are at risk.

As for BYNM?

They are the ones that gave up the money and of course they would have first dibs. And I'm sure THEY have small depositors whose money was put at risk.

Sentinel is some sort of trading house?

Anytime you have large amounts of uninsured money at one of these places you are taking a risk.
"Everybody lies."
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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08/11/2012 12:38 PM
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Re: Fed Judge rules your Bank Accounts are not Your property, banks not responsible if they lose your funds.
I am pretty sure that the mods are savvy enough analysts to extrapolate from this latest ruling. Ann Barnhardt is a skilled analyst and she agrees with me on this.

This ruling is a green light to ANY BANK to begin to use YOUR SAVINGS/CHECKING ACCOUNT as COLLATERAL to FUND THEIR OWN proprietary investment schemes (Gambling).

And if they lose their gamble, you lose your money.

No FDIC insurance for you.

No lawsuit for you.

Game Over
SteamrolledGobias

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08/11/2012 12:39 PM

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gee things hve been heating up like crazy over the past 2 weeks
Shingen

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08/11/2012 12:41 PM

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Stop using banks.

Problem solved.
"Anarchism is not a romantic fable but the hardheaded realization, based of five thousand years of experience, that we cannot entrust the management of our lives to kings, priests, politicians, generals, or county commissioners." - Edward Abbey

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Anonymous Coward
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08/11/2012 12:41 PM
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Re: Fed Judge rules your Bank Accounts are not Your property, banks not responsible if they lose your funds.
The banks didn't lose your money. Somebody else made that happen ... (hint first two letters are OB and last two letters are MA and middle letter is A)
Anonymous Coward
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08/11/2012 12:42 PM
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You didn´t save that money!! Somebody else did!
oridin
 Quoting: Zombietard


Yessir!
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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08/11/2012 12:46 PM
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Re: Fed Judge rules your Bank Accounts are not Your property, banks not responsible if they lose your funds.
This has no effect on the so called "little guy.

The majority of individual bank accounts are federally insured to $250,000.

These are the big players that you all here at GLP seem to despise that are at risk.

As for BYNM?

They are the ones that gave up the money and of course they would have first dibs. And I'm sure THEY have small depositors whose money was put at risk.

Sentinel is some sort of trading house?

Anytime you have large amounts of uninsured money at one of these places you are taking a risk.
 Quoting: G. House


There are laws governing Investment banks. Sentinel broke the law. So did MF global, PFG, and Knight Capital.

The laws for investment banks are the same as for any bank.

If your savings account or checking account bears interest, it is placed into a pool which is technically a customer segregated fund. Just like the money you give to an investment bank.

Your deposit bank acts exactly like an investment bank in this regard, in that they may utilize your deposited funds in the manner in which they designate according the terms of the contract you mutually agree upon.

If they use those funds in any other manner it is fraud. Including using them as collateral for a greater loan (if this is not contractually agreeed upon), or investing them in a manner not agreed upon.

If they LOSE those funds, they owe you.

The FDIC has the ability to cover something like .01 percent or less of current deposits.

Get it straight.
Anonymous Coward
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08/11/2012 12:50 PM
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Lackluster service
Darth Hitman

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08/11/2012 12:51 PM
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[link to westernrifleshooters.wordpress.com]

For those having issues with original link [like myself] try this one.
“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

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08/11/2012 12:53 PM
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PIN!
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08/11/2012 12:54 PM
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From another post on Ann's Barnhard's site entitled "Another Lauren Brinati Horror Story"...

After reading this, scroll down her front page to read her 2 previous but recent articles regarding the NFA scam.

- Destroy the CME and the NFA. Do It Right Now. 1
Posted by Ann Barnhardt - July 24, AD 2012 8:12 PM MST

- Destroy the CME and the NFA. Do It Right Now. 2
Posted by Ann Barnhardt - July 24, AD 2012 8:11 PM MST

-----------------------------------

Another Lauren Brinati Horror Story

Posted by Ann Barnhardt - July 26, AD 2012 6:44 PM MST

This speaks for itself, just backing up everything already said. The NFA is a criminal mafia which must be utterly destroyed, and the upper management along with some of the mid-level gestapo robo-signer morons like Lauren Brinati should serve very hard, very long prison sentences. It's not vengeance. It's a reckoning.

*This is published in full. The use of ellipses are the author's writing style and do NOT indicate that any text has been removed.

Ann:

I was reading info re: PFG and found your website. I've had first-hand, in person dealings with Lauren Brinati and you may be interested in knowing more....

First, a brief background.....

I was first registered with the NFA in 1981....not long after they were formed. Thru many years of dealings with them (as an AP and then as a principal of several CTA, CPO and IB firms) I found that the culture of the organization began to evolve. They were always a pain to deal with but as time passed, they became ever more arrogant and abusive. I only write this to you now because I am no longer registered in the industry. If I was, like most others I would fear and expect retribution for voicing my experience and feelings.

In 2006, an issue arose with the NFA regarding the books of one of my pools. Long story short....the pool had expenses (belonging to the pool, not me) that the NFA forced me to show as a receivable from my CPO. In other words, the NFA forced me to pay for expenses that were not mine. This was done under my protest and was, for years, considered an "open issue" with the NFA.

In 2009, my CPO was again audited by NFA. Four staff auditors came down (to my one-man office) and were led by their audit manager, Lauren Brinati (she was just an audit manager then). Brinati walked into my office at 8am and, for two hours, proceeded to call me a thief, liar and cheat. I tried to tell her that the issue in question was from 2006 and was very much an unresolved, open issue. She refused to let me speak. You would have thought I ran over her dog....

During her endless rant, it was crystal clear that she not only did not know the facts of the case but she had no clue of NFA regs. Still, ignorance did not deter her. After taking her abuse for two hours, I invited her and the staff auditors to leave my office (or I would have them removed). She left and I immediately called Dan Driskoll at NFA. I told him I would not stand for such unprofessional, outrageous and insane conduct by his employees. He told me he would remove her from the case. I later learned that she was not removed from the case, just told not to deal with me again.

The bottom line....shortly after my problem with Brinati she was PROMOTED to head of audits. Outrageous.... This only shows what I have believed true about the NFA for decades. This organization is populated with the absolute worst kind of human beings. They love using their unfettered power to accuse, verbally assault, intimidate and ultimately destroy anyone who they find in their path. In the vast majority of cases (like mine), the victims of their abuse are utterly innocent of any wrongdoing.

FYI...in almost all cases, the victims of NFA abuse are the "small shops". Like me, such folks lack the financial resources to fight protracted and very costly legal battles in their own defense (or they simply deem it not worth the effort, expense and time). The big and financially powerful firms have the resources to keep the NFA at arms-length. Thus, the little guys get mugged in the alley while the big fish continue unchecked until things blow (like MF Global and PFG)...

rest at link

...Best Wishes, S

---------------------------------


S
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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08/11/2012 12:57 PM
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[link to westernrifleshooters.wordpress.com]

For those having issues with original link [like myself] try this one.
 Quoting: Darth Hitman


The thing about Ann's site.

It is a very simple site, but she does not manage it with savvy.

She leaves her articles up for a long time, with many links and videos, so it takes a while to download to your computer, PLUS she obviously uses a small slow server.

It is probably overwhelmed right now.
usa1961

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08/11/2012 12:58 PM
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January 2011 I saw just this happening this year, after hours of explaining this such event along with providing specific e_mails I received from my trader, (the trader didn't tell me this would happen, I just self concluded this after silver started rising.) I talked my husband into emptying our bank accounts, cashing out out 401, yes we lost 40%, but we got more then people will get when they realize there is no money in the markets.
Point here we cashed out, hide most the cash, polayed off 90% of our debts and I say hu! To the banksters you b didn't get me.
Anonymous Coward
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08/11/2012 01:03 PM
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There doesn't seem to be any rules anymore I guess. The bankers are just full on robbers now.
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08/11/2012 01:03 PM

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bad link
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8084990


links working
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"Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, you've heard a lot here today and I won't try to go back over it all. But you have to go back in that room and make some decisions and there is one thing I want to make very clear to you before you do. I'm not trying to convince you that you should like what Larry Flynt does. I don't like what he does. But what I do like is... that I live in a country... where you and I can make that decision for ourselves. I like that I live in a country where I can pick up Hustler magazine... read it if I want... or throw it in the trash, if that's where I think it belongs. Or better yet I can express my opinion by not buying it. I like that right. I care about it. And you should care about it, too... because we live in a free country. We say that a lot, but sometimes we forget what that means, so listen again. We live in a free country. That is a powerful idea. That's a magnificent way to live. But there is a price for that freedom, which is that sometimes... we have to tolerate things that we don't necessarily like. So go back in that room... where you are free to think whatever you want to think... about Larry Flynt and Hustler magazine. But then ask yourselves if you want to make that decision for the rest of us... because the freedom that everyone in this room enjoys... is, in a very real way, in your hands. If we start throwing up walls against what some of us think is obscene... we may wake up one morning and realize... that walls have been thrown upin places we never expected... and we can't see anythingor... do anything. And that's not freedom. That is not freedom. So, be careful. Thank you."
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Anonymous Coward (OP)
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08/11/2012 01:08 PM
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January 2011 I saw just this happening this year, after hours of explaining this such event along with providing specific e_mails I received from my trader, (the trader didn't tell me this would happen, I just self concluded this after silver started rising.) I talked my husband into emptying our bank accounts, cashing out out 401, yes we lost 40%, but we got more then people will get when they realize there is no money in the markets.
Point here we cashed out, hide most the cash, polayed off 90% of our debts and I say hu! To the banksters you b didn't get me.
 Quoting: usa1961


Recently Knight capital lost customer segregated funds but I don't think they broke the law. I think they informed the clients that they used computer automated algorithmic trading methods, which is all the rage now.

The problem occurred with the computer NOT following the algorithm! Like a ghost in the machine. Here was the result.



"The Knight Capital computer algorithm abortion yesterday is even worse than originally thought. The losses are being quoted now at $440 million. Egan Jones just downgraded Knight to junk CCC with this warning:

Tough math - KCG probably needs $600M of equity capital but its market cap is only $300M and therefore probably can only raise $80M to $90M using normal rules of thumb. A sale of the firm would take 90 days under good conditions and therefore only an equity or quasi-equity investment makes sense. However, with weakness in the markets, there is likely to be few likely buyers. In a good year KCG earns $115M and therefore the $440M loss is debilitating. (Watch for the secondary losses related the loss of client confidence.) Net revs for the June quarter declined by 13% YoY. The Market-Making segment revenues were down 21% with pre-tax income down 84% from $39.2M to $5.9M due to trading losses related to the Facebook IPO. June quarter oper inc was down from $29.5M to $5.4M. We are downgrading.

So Penson collapses and within a matter of weeks the firm that bought Penson collapses. MF Global. PFG Best. Who will be next?"

READ THE FEAR INDEX BY ROBERT HARRIS TO UNDERSTAND COMPUTER AUTOMATED ALGORITHMIC TRADING
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