Yo Chuck... strange how fruit species didn't die into extinction in the million years it took "the evolution' to design seeds, Right?

i got an idea how about instead you having this nines back you up you defend yourself with and intelligent debate. but if your other recent thread is an indicator i suspect that is not likely to happen.

Glad to see your still GLPn.
Hope your doing well too.
I think the twins are going to get away with it.

You ready for what is coming?
Hope your paying attention.

Very well, thank you. Yes, I think they are too.

And yes, paying very close attention. Thank you for caring.

Hope to see you around again!

nice way to man up. ok so since it would appear that you are going to take over where nines left off.. how about you answer my question about whether or not you are open to the idea of a creator that intelligently designed all things including evolution as the last response suggests not 6000 years ago but possibly billions etc. do this and i will describe what you could look up very easy yourself. but i will give my definition if that makes you happy.. but lets have an answer to my question first.

"This Nines"? LOL. Whatever. Did you notice I answered your post? You have no response for it, a subject you wanted to discuss, and now you're passing me off and want to debate DGN?

That's fine with me. As I said, I hate the Darwin/evo threads. DGN knows it. You'll never see me defend him posting the continual Darwin/evo threads. You seldom see me comment on them.

Whenever I see someone accuse someone unfairly, you'll often see me comment. Just like you'll comment on what you consider to be someone who belongs to the ass club.

Have a nice evening.

you see here is what i think i think an all powerful creator could have intelligently designed the process that is conventionally accepted as evolution. what is so out of the box about that it is no more outlandish then just blinking all the stuff we see around us now- in to existence 6000 years ago. or do you have to stick with the story you have been told because its popular? i have more but please let me know what you think of that

the more the merrier no I’m not shying away from you .. just calling the op out to.. some other time then...

oh and one other thing the nines as i pointed out on that other thread d posted the speed with which you responded to my disparaging comment to that thread leads me to believe you are not just casually defending the people. just admit it you are invested in this topic and this ops ideas -seems clear. just saying no need for the deception. anyway seems its as i suspected. no real debates to be had. other than circular semantic questions.

Are you talking to me, or DGN? I have no idea what your question is, if you're talking to me.

Are you talking about the head banging I posted after you? That was for DGN, just like the computer toss out the window was for DGN for another Darwin/evo thread.

Thread: Evolution: Sophestication by Mutation.... Mr darwin?

As far as "invested", I still don't know what you mean.

Last Edited by Nine's - IN MEMORIAM on 08/15/2012 02:32 AM

Yes I was referring to the head banging thing

anywho if you or d have a responce to my question would love to here it. otherwise moving on

Once again, I did respond. It's on page 1.

ah my bad i see that you did. my apologies for the miss. well your answer is vague in one part and revealing in another. you are open to some of the unknowns but believe the first two people were created by the intelligent designer. so i can assume you don’t think the creator did or was capable of intelligently designing a universe where the people evolved. i assume you believe they were made spontaneously. you see my point is there is a lot of argument about if evolution could work or not from a creationist point of view. well i say if the creator designed evolution it could work even the way it is understood today by conventional science. see it is the resistance to this possibility that i find telling. because it is not about thinking for ones self but believing what one was taught, because it is a tradition thought up by many people over a very long time. and that does not leave much room for open mindedness. which i fear is a big part of the problem with organized religion.

Is this how they get seeded?

No problem. It's easy to overlook a post.

Your assumptions aren't accurate. I think the Creator is capable of doing anything He chose and chooses to do. What He chose to do, according to the Bible, is create Adam and Eve. I think it's quite possible he made us able to evolve, change, and adapt for our survival.

To evolve from a primate to a human, no, I don't believe that. It's not what the Bible says.

With some, it may be because of what they were taught. With others, it's because of what they've learned by reading, studying, listening, observing, and evaluating, to determine whether something is truth, or theory.

To you, the Bible may be a fairy tale. To Bible believers, evolution, from the viewpoint of man descending from a primate, is a theory. A false theory.

I too have problems with organized religions but haven't had enough experience with them to know whether or not what you're saying about them is fact, or theory.

I've noticed though, that some non believers get as hung up on the current theory science is leaning toward, and have as much faith in it as believers have in their Creator.

Some day we may all know who has the true answers.

Not to mention seeds that are designed to be perfectly propelled certain distances away, like the Maple Tree seed.

I'd love to hear an evolutionist hypothesize how a tree figured out how to make aerodynamic adjustments to its seed-casing based on its mid-air performance, lol!

Loser...

It blows my mind that so many people actually believe we 'evolved' from creatures like this... And these same people are convinced they are the rational ones... wow!

Not one tree figured it out, many small tweaks were and still are tried out (genetic mutation), if a tweak is more succesful in its current environment then that trait becomes more likely to be passed on. This happens concurrently for all maple tress over the entire planet. Rather beautiful and elegant I think, much more so than some vengefull mountain god who was chosen for some reason from the pantheon of made up gods not too long ago, that I find SO BORING AND DUMB!

Which god did the designing then? They all claim to have done it so?

Blah blah, through random selection the design and distance were established. Seeds without the proper parameters did not grow therefore did not pass on the poor design.

Your god, is a vengeful hater, I do not subscribe to.

Think about what you are saying..

What environment stressor made the tree begin 'evolving' its seed casing in the first place? Was it just mutating little partial ineffective casings for no reason? Why? What information is the tree receiving about its seeds after they've been disconnected? Where is the mutational influence coming from?

And what is guiding the seed casing design to result in its perfect aerodynamic shape that allows for this helicoptering motion? Did the tree just stumble onto this perfect design by chance? Because if you subtract a shred of material from this design it will completely screw its motion up.. so it went from "bad... bad... bad... bad... Perfect!" ???

I know, I know, the Evolution Fairies did it.

Uh huh.. "The evolution fairies did it"

Fuck off you are the only living fairy.
Think about it... I am a tree I grow several seed shapes the wrong shaped ones don't survive do to inefficiency's. The right shaped ones grow into trees and refine the seed shape ( because it came from a successful tree the refinements are small ). Try to use that brain that has taken so long to evolve.

Read a couple posts up. I already explained how ridiculous and absurd that logic is.

Seriously, you may as well say "evolution fairies did it" because you have absolutely no rational explanation from a purely naturalistic perspective.

I think the theory goes thus, natural radiation causes a small mutation in the shape of the seed, causing it fly further from the tree. The resulting new tree obviously produces the same mutation.The new trees spread far and wide due to the new seed, while the old type stagnate in one area and eventually suffocate each other.

Micro evolution I can believe, its nothing more than adaption, but species turning into other species I find utterly ridiculous. I find gods creationism and evolutionary theory equally unbelievable.

Yes, I understand that concept. It's a vague one that keeps getting repeated but does not offer any logical explanation about the actual seed mutation.

Plant genetics is one BIG thing
that humans took out of the hands
of evolution LONG ago.
Every fruit and nut and vegetable
we eat today is extraordinarily
different from what it was, say,
20,000 years ago.
I cannot think of ANY food crop
that hasn't been drastically changed
by the effort of humans.

modern humanity to me begins with
the first guy purposely cultivating
plants.
And the 2nd guy began to select the
best plants and use seeds from those
best plants for the next crop.
Then came breeding and crossbreeding
of plants.

Not something I'd thought about really as my interest is in Human development. However I did a Google as perhaps you should have done and this part is about the transition of spores to seeds. This could be a place for you to spend your time instead of these smug inane questions you keep asking.

"Early land plants reproduced in the fashion of ferns: spores germinated into small gametophytes, which produced sperm. These would swim across moist soils to find the female organs (archegonia) on the same or another gametophyte, where they would fuse with an ovule to produce an embryo, which would germinate into a sporophyte.

Heterosporic organisms, as their name suggests, bear spores of two sizes – microspores and megaspores. These would germinate to form microgametophytes and megagametophytes, respectively. This system paved the way for seeds: taken to the extreme, the megasporangia could bear only a single megaspore tetrad, and to complete the transition to true seeds, three of the megaspores in the original tetrad could be aborted, leaving one megaspore per megasporangium.

The transition to seeds continued with this megaspore being "boxed in" to its sporangium while it germinates. Then, the megagametophyte is contained within a waterproof integument, which forms the bulk of the seed. The microgametophyte – a pollen grain which has germinated from a microspore – is employed for dispersal, only releasing its desiccation-prone sperm when it reaches a receptive megagametophyte.

Lycopods go a fair way down the path to seeds without ever crossing the threshold."


As I said it's not an area of great interest to me but could suggest you then look further into it if it is of such importance to you. Instead of challenging people all the time about what they know you could admit to yourself how little you know and learn something. Further to that end this is a snippet about flowers.

"Flowers are modified leaves possessed only by the angiosperms, which are relatively late to appear in the fossil record; the group originated and diversified during the Early Cretaceous and became ecologically significant thereafter. Flower-like structures first appear in the fossil records some ~130 mya, in the Cretaceous era. Colourful and/or pungent structures surround the cones of plants such as cycads and gnetales, making a strict definition of the term "flower" elusive.

The main function of a flower is reproduction, which, before the evolution of the flower and angiosperms, was the job of microsporophylls and megasporophylls. A flower can be considered a powerful evolutionary innovation, because its presence allowed the plant world to access new means and mechanisms for reproduction."

That's from a simple Google about a subject I have but a passing interest in. You're welcome.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

Let's round it off now with the fruit question.

Two theories here from what I can gather, one the reward system and one the defence system. The reward system for propagation and the defence system to protect the seeds. As people learned in this area are weighing these sorts of questions it's a case of 'yer pays yer money and makes yer choice.' However it's quite within reason that during the evolution of plants change would have occurred within the spore/seed/fruit.

Last Edited by 7even on 08/15/2012 10:51 AM