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Here's what a brown dwarf would do to the solar system on a 3600 year orbit...

 
Anonymous Coward
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08/15/2012 11:40 PM
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Re: Here's what a brown dwarf would do to the solar system on a 3600 year orbit...
The solar system would not be a very stable or pleasant place if there were even a minimum mass brown dwarf passing through it every 3600 years...

Low inclination orbits of the planets? Forget about it!
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


He has absolutely no idea how this brown dwarf is going to approach our solar system. And if you'll notice in the video... in order to throw all the planets out of wack and off their original plane... he creates only one possibility in order to create the mess he is suggesting... when in actuality there are hundreds, if not thousands of possibilities due to various positions the planets could be sitting in their orbits... if and when this brown dwarf finally does comes through our solar system. That to me would be like trying to predict the temperature at noon in Chicago on April 30th 2044. Impossible... to say the least.
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08/15/2012 11:41 PM

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Re: Here's what a brown dwarf would do to the solar system on a 3600 year orbit...
So far, the mission's discoveries of previously unknown objects include an ultra-cold star or brown dwarf, 20 comets, 134 near-Earth objects (NEOs), and more than 33,000 asteroids in the main belt between Mars and Jupiter.
 Quoting: NASA


Here's a picture...

[link to img825.imageshack.us]

Oh and here is the original source AGAIN and AGAIN.

source: [link to www.nasa.gov]

Care to explain then how an

ultra-cold star or brown dwarf
 Quoting: NASA


That are

in the main belt between Mars and Jupiter
 Quoting: Nasa

 Quoting: Children of the Atom

LMFAO! You are such an idiot. I want to frame this quote from you on my wall. They did not claim to discover an ultra-cold star or brown dwarf in the main belt between mars and jupiter. They said they found 33,000 asteroids there, completely separate from the ultra-cold brown dwarf (which was light years away).
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


As far as I know, no such discoveries have been made. But isn't believing just because you are told just as foolish as believing what has not beentold?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7916217


If such a thing were in the asteroid belt, we'd all know about it.
Thread: Nibiru Analysis *Jupiter analysis on page 20*
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Sum1Else

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08/15/2012 11:41 PM

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Re: Here's what a brown dwarf would do to the solar system on a 3600 year orbit...
This thread reminds me that we are in some deep shit in this old world. Some of you all have the ignorance disease real bad.
nothing is as it appears
TRU

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08/15/2012 11:42 PM

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Re: Here's what a brown dwarf would do to the solar system on a 3600 year orbit...
stop ruining my doom. I'm looking forward to it lmao
The truth is out there.
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Re: Here's what a brown dwarf would do to the solar system on a 3600 year orbit...
The solar system would not be a very stable or pleasant place if there were even a minimum mass brown dwarf passing through it every 3600 years...

Low inclination orbits of the planets? Forget about it!
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


He has absolutely no idea how this brown dwarf is going to approach our solar system. And if you'll notice in the video... in order to throw all the planets out of wack and off their original plane... he creates only one possibility in order to create the mess he is suggesting... when in actuality there are hundreds, if not thousands of possibilities due to various positions the planets could be sitting in their orbits...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1148772

It wouldn't fucking matter, the end result would still be a jumbled mess, just a different jumble. If you want to see for yourself, download the program and run it on your own computer. I didn't play some trick by carefully positioning the planets.
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08/15/2012 11:42 PM
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Re: Here's what a brown dwarf would do to the solar system on a 3600 year orbit...
Titus-Bode Law
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 869178

Is irrelevant here.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


Listen, you're not the authority. Titus-Bode Law dictates exactly how far away from the Sun a given planet's orbital shell will fall. This is an electric harmonic wave that dictates where the planet will orbit in distance from the sun; angular momentum of the electric wave dictates the eccentricity.

So, quit with your trite stupidity.
Dr. AstroModerator (OP)
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08/15/2012 11:44 PM

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Re: Here's what a brown dwarf would do to the solar system on a 3600 year orbit...
Titus-Bode Law
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 869178

Is irrelevant here.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


Listen, you're not the authority. Titus-Bode Law dictates exactly how far away from the Sun a given planet's orbital shell will fall.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 869178

LMFAO! I'm more an authority than you. It's irrelevant here, it says nothing about the effect a perturbing brown dwarf would have! It assumes a stable solar system.
astrobanner2
Anonymous Coward
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08/15/2012 11:47 PM
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Re: Here's what a brown dwarf would do to the solar system on a 3600 year orbit...
The solar system would not be a very stable or pleasant place if there were even a minimum mass brown dwarf passing through it every 3600 years...

Low inclination orbits of the planets? Forget about it!
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


He has absolutely no idea how this brown dwarf is going to approach our solar system. And if you'll notice in the video... in order to throw all the planets out of wack and off their original plane... he creates only one possibility in order to create the mess he is suggesting... when in actuality there are hundreds, if not thousands of possibilities due to various positions the planets could be sitting in their orbits...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1148772

It wouldn't fucking matter, the end result would still be a jumbled mess, just a different jumble. If you want to see for yourself, download the program and run it on your own computer. I didn't play some trick by carefully positioning the planets.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


It would matter... especially if this brown dwarf were on the exact same plane as the rest of our planets... which it very well could be.
Reality420
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08/15/2012 11:47 PM
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Re: Here's what a brown dwarf would do to the solar system on a 3600 year orbit...
Ok, I am confused. How are you not understanding what I am saying? I will say again.(or maybe you are losing track of conversation with me, seeing as you have many going at once, this is not un plausible)

Tidal locking is a known phenomenon, and it acts in a PRECISE PATTERN, if such a significant pattern happens rite here, why should an equally significant pattern else where be ruled out so quickly just because it would need to be so precise?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7916217


It's because you are doing the standard GLP kOOk thing...

In your arrogant ignorance, you've entered a discussion on a topic of which you have no, none, zero, 0, knowledge.
Therefore your statements are completely illucid gibberish to those who know the subject.

You may as well be saying, "Bar, bar, bar. Glimph, snorkle, glub.", because that's what it sounds like. It's just that you're too ignorant to realize you are making no sense.

Don't feel badly. There are quite a few on this thread who are as bad or worse than you.
I'm thinking the skateboarding, 5th grade, gas-mask moron at this point.
He makes even less sense than you and is much more arrogant in his abject ignorance.


R.
peace
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08/15/2012 11:47 PM
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Re: Here's what a brown dwarf would do to the solar system on a 3600 year orbit...
The beauty of perspective

[link to www.youtube.com]
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08/15/2012 11:48 PM

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Re: Here's what a brown dwarf would do to the solar system on a 3600 year orbit...
bumpbumpbump
Dr. AstroModerator (OP)
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Re: Here's what a brown dwarf would do to the solar system on a 3600 year orbit...
The solar system would not be a very stable or pleasant place if there were even a minimum mass brown dwarf passing through it every 3600 years...

Low inclination orbits of the planets? Forget about it!
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


He has absolutely no idea how this brown dwarf is going to approach our solar system. And if you'll notice in the video... in order to throw all the planets out of wack and off their original plane... he creates only one possibility in order to create the mess he is suggesting... when in actuality there are hundreds, if not thousands of possibilities due to various positions the planets could be sitting in their orbits...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1148772

It wouldn't fucking matter, the end result would still be a jumbled mess, just a different jumble. If you want to see for yourself, download the program and run it on your own computer. I didn't play some trick by carefully positioning the planets.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


It would matter... especially if this brown dwarf were on the exact same plane as the rest of our planets... which it very well could be.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1148772


The standard claim is that it's perpendicular and would therefore have no effects. That's why I set out to debunk it. If it were in the plane of our solar system it would have a greater effect on eccentricities and less of an effect on inclination, but the end result would still be a different jumbled mess. Go on, try it yourself.
astrobanner2
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08/15/2012 11:52 PM
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Re: Here's what a brown dwarf would do to the solar system on a 3600 year orbit...
You claim that the moon is locked in Tidal lock.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7916217

That's a natural consequence of gravity between the moon and earth.
time to tidal lock ~ (w*a^6*I*Q)/(3G*mp^k2*R^5)
w = initial spin rate
a = semi-major axis of the satellite
I ~ 0.4*ms*R^2 moment of inertia of satellite
Q = dissipation function of satellite
G = gravitational constant
mp = mass of planet
ms = mass of satellite
k2 = tidal Love number of the satellite
R = radius of the satellite
Argument on this subject ENDED!!!5a
 Quoting: AC

Show me your free-return trajectory between the sun deep within the inner solar system and a brown dwarf in an elliptical orbit outside the inner solar system that is stable. Go on, show me.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


A continuance then? When I said math, I meant numbers of Earth and moon. That is equation, it is not quite what I asked but none the less, with that equation, you can put in the known numbers and supply the answer, so I will accept it.

And I will try and whip up a real quick equation here, seeing as I cannot simply look one up on the internet.
Children of the Atom

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08/15/2012 11:54 PM
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Re: Here's what a brown dwarf would do to the solar system on a 3600 year orbit...
Meh, I concede that I was hasty in using that as a reference to support my argument lol

BUT

The new observations still allow the possibility of free-floating planets up to a few times the mass of Jupiter beyond a few light-years from the Sun, which other surveys have predicted might exist. Those bodies would be too faint for WISE to see in the processed data in hand.
 Quoting: Astronomy.com


Source: [link to www.astronomy.com]

I don't myself believe this is happening, but the question does beg, when?

It is bound to happen eventually.
Poriwoggu

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08/15/2012 11:55 PM
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Re: Here's what a brown dwarf would do to the solar system on a 3600 year orbit...
The solar system would not be a very stable or pleasant place if there were even a minimum mass brown dwarf passing through it every 3600 years...

Low inclination orbits of the planets? Forget about it!
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


He has absolutely no idea how this brown dwarf is going to approach our solar system. And if you'll notice in the video... in order to throw all the planets out of wack and off their original plane... he creates only one possibility in order to create the mess he is suggesting... when in actuality there are hundreds, if not thousands of possibilities due to various positions the planets could be sitting in their orbits...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1148772

It wouldn't fucking matter, the end result would still be a jumbled mess, just a different jumble. If you want to see for yourself, download the program and run it on your own computer. I didn't play some trick by carefully positioning the planets.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


It would matter... especially if this brown dwarf were on the exact same plane as the rest of our planets... which it very well could be.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1148772



This really gets tiresome.

It only takes a roughly 25% increase in speed for an orbiting object to reach escape velocity.

The sling shot effect of passing objects provides up to a 3 times increase in speed.

A heavy object (Jupiter x 10) entering the solar system particularly in plane will clear out the solar system after a relatively few number of passes. All the planets would be in the sun or on their way out.
Poriwoggu
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Re: Here's what a brown dwarf would do to the solar system on a 3600 year orbit...
its funny watching ignorant people argue with someone who knows what hes talking about. they base their entire knowledge off "facts" they have read from GLP.
Anonymous Coward
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08/15/2012 11:56 PM
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Re: Here's what a brown dwarf would do to the solar system on a 3600 year orbit...
Notice he said BROWN DWARF. Why didn't he say any planet any asteroid any anomoly. Zeroing on the nibiru thing again. You just hade a thread up about Nibiru. Two days ago? This is just another repeat. Another thing. The Video. He Clearly does not Identify Himself with any Reputable Group or Organization. This does not convince me one way or the other. If your going to be taken seriously then might not you post a video that can be clearly linked with a governing body. Who has the respect of the people they serve and the equipment in place as they do. This is your second attempt at debunking Planet X is as many days?
Reality420
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08/15/2012 11:58 PM
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Re: Here's what a brown dwarf would do to the solar system on a 3600 year orbit...
You say planet would most likely shoot out of solar system all together.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7916217

I'm saying a planet outside its object's hill sphere is not going to re-join it, period. If it's traveling above solar escape velocity, it's not going to come back to the sun and most likely the main body it had previously orbited will be ejected as well.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


You're wrong Astro.

So far, the mission's discoveries of previously unknown objects include an ultra-cold star or brown dwarf, 20 comets, 134 near-Earth objects (NEOs), and more than 33,000 asteroids in the main belt between Mars and Jupiter.
 Quoting: NASA


Here's a picture...

[link to img825.imageshack.us]

Oh and here is the original source AGAIN and AGAIN.

source: [link to www.nasa.gov]

Care to explain then how an

ultra-cold star or brown dwarf
 Quoting: NASA


That are

in the main belt between Mars and Jupiter
 Quoting: Nasa


Secondly, your original reason for supporting the computer model was based upon what you claimed was orbital mechanics, when it is really celestial mechanics. It's alright though, you must of been asleep in class!

Celestial mechanics is the branch of astronomy that deals with the motions of celestial objects.
 Quoting: Wiki


Source: [link to en.wikipedia.org]

While orbital mechanics is described as;

Orbital mechanics or astrodynamics is the application of ballistics and celestial mechanics to the practical problems concerning the motion of rockets and other spacecraft.
 Quoting: Wiki


Source: [link to en.wikipedia.org]

You clearly don't know wtf you're talking about.

You remind me of this guy...

:methbro:
 Quoting: Children of the Atom


Good lord.

You are functionally illiterate and arguing science with adults.
It isn't even amusing.

Go back to 2nd grade and learn how to read before you speak to adults.

Get off the skateboard, pull your pants up, tuck your shirt in, turn your ballcap around and get back to grade school you twit. How do you expect to get your GED when you can't even read the instructions on the application?

You have a bright future in the food service industry or in the lawn service industry.


R.
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08/16/2012 12:00 AM
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Re: Here's what a brown dwarf would do to the solar system on a 3600 year orbit...
Titus-Bode Law
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 869178

Is irrelevant here.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


Listen, you're not the authority. Titus-Bode Law dictates exactly how far away from the Sun a given planet's orbital shell will fall.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 869178

LMFAO! I'm more an authority than you. It's irrelevant here, it says nothing about the effect a perturbing brown dwarf would have! It assumes a stable solar system.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


Disliking you a little for showing me how screwed we really are. With non-thinking sheep like this around, we really don't have a chance. They'll drag us down with them.

And I'm just about sick of this palnet x/nibiru crap. Bunch of kids fantasizing about planetary catastrophe?!?!?
Children of the Atom

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08/16/2012 12:02 AM
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Re: Here's what a brown dwarf would do to the solar system on a 3600 year orbit...
Good lord.

You are functionally illiterate and arguing science with adults.
It isn't even amusing.

Go back to 2nd grade and learn how to read before you speak to adults.

Get off the skateboard, pull your pants up, tuck your shirt in, turn your ballcap around and get back to grade school you twit. How do you expect to get your GED when you can't even read the instructions on the application?

You have a bright future in the food service industry or in the lawn service industry.


R.
 Quoting: Reality420 19327440


Feel better now?

I read through in haste and concluded this to argue against how the models are actually proven since we have only gathered this knowledge in roughly the last few decades.

That was actually my entire argument from the beginning. I have already retracted that assumption in a previous post.

Anyhow, how does this add productively to the thread?

hf
AxE-i-DeNt

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08/16/2012 12:02 AM

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Re: Here's what a brown dwarf would do to the solar system on a 3600 year orbit...
Great post.

Sadly won't convince nibirutards... Untill dec 22 O_o

Then again, it'll get pushed back to another date
Anonymous Coward
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08/16/2012 12:04 AM
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Re: Here's what a brown dwarf would do to the solar system on a 3600 year orbit...
Thanks for this post Astromut.
Anonymous Coward
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08/16/2012 12:05 AM
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Re: Here's what a brown dwarf would do to the solar system on a 3600 year orbit...
Great post.

Sadly won't convince nibirutards... Untill dec 22 O_o

Then again, it'll get pushed back to another date
 Quoting: AxE-i-DeNt


they'll say it passed through a wormhole or some shit, and got sent an extra lightyear away but is still heading here. supporting evidence : youtube videos
Dr. AstroModerator (OP)
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08/16/2012 12:06 AM

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Re: Here's what a brown dwarf would do to the solar system on a 3600 year orbit...
Notice he said BROWN DWARF. Why didn't he say any planet any asteroid any anomoly.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22047836

Asteroid? Did you say asteroid?
Thread: Here's what a real cosmic threat looks like
Zeroing on the nibiru thing again. You just hade a thread up about Nibiru. Two days ago? This is just another repeat.
 Quoting: AC

The last one was a specific case of such an object rapidly approaching us, this is a general scenario to see if such a system is even stable. This Nibiru fun has an expiration date on it, or at least a "best-by" date of December 21st. I'm going to do the best I can to address it and debunk it until then.
Another thing. The Video. He Clearly does not Identify Himself with any Reputable Group or Organization.
 Quoting: AC

An inverse of the appeal to authority logical fallacy. In fact, you're really suggesting that I should have used an appeal to authority.
If your going to be taken seriously then might not you post a video that can be clearly linked with a governing body.
 Quoting: AC

No, I don't work for the government and the people who I made the video for wouldn't pay attention to it if I did.
astrobanner2
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08/16/2012 12:07 AM
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Re: Here's what a brown dwarf would do to the solar system on a 3600 year orbit...
PM*PS=PE(PE-SHE=CEPT)CEPT+ERRH-SHE=UCP is the answer!!!!

PM: Planet Mass

PS: planet speed

PE: potential energy

SHE: speed lost during hill sphere escape

CEPT: Conditioned energy at produced trajectory.

ERRH: Energy regained during opposing hill sphere re entry

UCP= ultimate condition path.

Well um.... Of course you could never actually calculate anything with that, but I don't plan on sitting down for three years coming up with one that will work.

Still my proposition cannot be overlooked, you are saying the lack of evidence for it justifies it as non existent, clearly not a good way to go about thinking thing.
Dr. AstroModerator (OP)
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Re: Here's what a brown dwarf would do to the solar system on a 3600 year orbit...
Notice he said BROWN DWARF. Why didn't he say any planet any asteroid any anomoly.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22047836

Asteroid? Did you say asteroid?
Thread: Here's what a real cosmic threat looks like
Zeroing on the nibiru thing again. You just hade a thread up about Nibiru. Two days ago? This is just another repeat.
 Quoting: AC

The last one was a specific case of such an object rapidly approaching us, this is a general scenario to see if such a system is even stable. This Nibiru fun has an expiration date on it, or at least a "best-by" date of December 21st. I'm going to do the best I can to address it and debunk it until then.
Another thing. The Video. He Clearly does not Identify Himself with any Reputable Group or Organization.
 Quoting: AC

An inverse of the appeal to authority logical fallacy. In fact, you're really suggesting that I should have used an appeal to authority.
If your going to be taken seriously then might not you post a video that can be clearly linked with a governing body.
 Quoting: AC

No, I don't work for the government and the people who I made the video for wouldn't pay attention to it if I did.
astrobanner2
Children of the Atom

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08/16/2012 12:08 AM
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Re: Here's what a brown dwarf would do to the solar system on a 3600 year orbit...
So then would the model be roughly the same even for different class dwarfs? Here is some data to research your answer.

Serious question too.

[link to www.gemini.edu]
Dr. AstroModerator (OP)
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Re: Here's what a brown dwarf would do to the solar system on a 3600 year orbit...
Still my proposition cannot be overlooked, you are saying the lack of evidence for it justifies it as non existent, clearly not a good way to go about thinking thing.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7916217

I've got a bit of experience in plotting my own interplanetary orbits for simulated missions, so believe me when I say, your proposition is anything but reasonable and I want to see you plot such an orbit. It's your proposition, not mine, it's up to you to show that it's reasonable.
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Dr. AstroModerator (OP)
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Re: Here's what a brown dwarf would do to the solar system on a 3600 year orbit...
So then would the model be roughly the same even for different class dwarfs?
 Quoting: Children of the Atom


A minimum mass brown dwarf is a generous assumption. If you start talking about any other kind of dwarf star it gets worse. The paper you linked to seems focused on stellar class, but mass is the question here. I'm not talking about whether it'd emit enough light on its own to be easily visible or not (without considering reflected sunlight, of course).

Last Edited by Dr. Astro on 08/16/2012 12:12 AM
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Children of the Atom

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Re: Here's what a brown dwarf would do to the solar system on a 3600 year orbit...
So then would the model be roughly the same even for different class dwarfs?
 Quoting: Children of the Atom


A minimum mass brown dwarf is a generous assumption. If you start talking about any other kind of dwarf star it gets worse.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


Hard to play a devils advocate with such limited data.

Thanks for your clarity Astro.

hf

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