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I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet

 
Anonymous Coward
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08/19/2012 04:23 PM
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Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
A few things.... First the 2002 exercise was 10 years ago and the whole point of it was to develop strategies to fight smaller navies. Second the 2002 exercise was ran by a very good Marine General if I recall correctly. Third the US 5th fleet isn't just going to pull up to the Iranian coast to be swarmed by small ships. They will be miles away launching air strikes. Any ships that get close will be destroyed. Missiles are a problem but if there is a war against Iran they will be targeted first.


Modern Navies as a whole worry me during these times. It's way to easy to destroy ships using missiles these days. I think in the next large war there will be very heavy naval losses and Naval doctrine will change as a result of that. I think subs will be much more important in the future.
moeskyhigh (OP)

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08/19/2012 04:23 PM

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Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
you ppl really think i give a damn about red karmas? this is something you don't hear on your t.v or school..this is what Internet is good for

the reality is Iran is too strong to be invaded and they will make u know that for sure as soon as you attack them...
We are all One
Anonymous Coward
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08/19/2012 04:23 PM
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Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
One side will take some losses.
The other will cease to exist
as a nation and a people and
be lost to history.
moeskyhigh (OP)

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08/19/2012 04:25 PM

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Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
because Millenium Challenge 2002 says so

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

US for the very first time will be defeated by the Persian army and it would be an embarrassment for the Americans
 Quoting: moeskyhigh


first, it was 2002, lot of things have changed
second, are you sure that what they published is the truth?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22250529


yes it's true..alot of things have changed..including Iran;s military prowess
We are all One
moeskyhigh (OP)

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08/19/2012 04:28 PM

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Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
...


you were...not anymore...there are new players in the playground

you guys would lose if you go into this war...you must think outside of the box...and read what Marine Corps Lt. General Paul K. Van Riper has to say...he's words are more legitimate than yours
 Quoting: moeskyhigh


You have posted no FACT's at all. Nothing but theories and opinions!

The good General is campaigning to Congress for more funding for his branch of service. All good commanders do that. Canadian F
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13283851


no you're wrong..he's a retired marine who got to command the Red team for the wargame that cost US taxdollars $250 million...he resigned his position after what he saw that how the Pentagon tried to script the game to give a victory for the Blue team..a waste of $250 million indeed
 Quoting: moeskyhigh


cruiseok, ok ...ok.

I've played lots of video games. I've killed dragons and kicked ass in COD: Black Op's.
Does that mean I could really do that in real life!!?

Damn! Me and Iran must be some bad ass motherfuckers!fighter1

Furthermore, your logic is flawed because an AMERICAN General ran the simulation....not an Iranian! You dumbass!wakeup
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13283851


so you think that Iranians are dumb, well, that is your first problem,,they trained 2000 hezb and obliterated the IDF...and $250 million for a war game is no joke dumbass

now stfu and fuckoff2
We are all One
Anonymous Coward
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08/19/2012 04:28 PM
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Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
the us subs will become tombs at the bottom of the ocean. USA pls stop the games as you know iran's space program is untouchable like mc hammer..

[link to www.keshefoundation.org]
 Quoting: superfluous moon 22243444


"Space Program"?!cruise

Are you fuckin shittin me?!slaphim

Iran defeating the U.S.norespect

You people better recount the Olympic medals again! That's just one aspect of how far ahead we are of everyone else!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13283851


bsflagSo you think we landed on the moon then?Right.
CrazyBud

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08/19/2012 04:30 PM
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Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
you ppl really think i give a damn about red karmas? this is something you don't hear on your t.v or school..this is what Internet is good for

the reality is Iran is too strong to be invaded and they will make u know that for sure as soon as you attack them...
 Quoting: moeskyhigh


no...the desert is too harsh for conventional ground ops...so an occupation campaign is the least probable COA...the strategy is to break Iran's toys and the toy factories.
There's plenty of room for all God's creatures, right next to the mashed potatoes...noli timere messorem
T Ceti H.C. Radnarg

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08/19/2012 04:30 PM
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Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
navy
How unfortunate for some rulers when men,women,and children continue to think... Keep repeating the lies loud enough and long enough and just maybe the people will start to believe the lies again and good luck with that...finding your energy open until mars becomes raging aries...
needapaddle?
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08/19/2012 04:30 PM
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Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
@ OP...

This thread completely fails to acknowledge that the usa has spent trillions upon trillions of dollars on military technological research...

what everyone here on the internet banks on is nuclear technology as (being our primary defense) against Iran or global threats more over; however...

the last great discovery in military complexity was 20 years ago... (the stealth). We have multiple sources admitting that aircraft technology has advanced in the military spectrum; (craft like the aurora and even new drone technology). But we are simply clueless to what type of existing technology has and will emerge in the event of a full scale war in the middle east.

Furthermore our us government harbors technology, simple public released devices (such as the droid) were released to the millitary and used in active service for nearly 10 years prior to thier "public release". Meaning that even existing militar "communication devices" are far more advanced that anything apple offers the greater population. Now lets go back to nuclear talk. "as being our quote aresanal" The united states has multiple infection and disease research facilities that play with the most leathal and toxic substances (not even released to mankind). What is to osay we need a nuclear bomb in this day and age, when just one simple vile of god knows what is introduced into an enemy territory. Being we are the creators of these great pandemical secrets, we should consider that we have multiple failsafes to keep these types of weapons from affecting any usa citizen in our own nation.

So I completely dis agree with your logic on what iran is capable of. If they had the means to do anything they threat, they would do it now. (why wait)....

Thats right, the bottom line is they have nothing to compare to american technology... even if they sent multiple nuclear tipped missiles to every state in our nation, our world leaders and military would respond within seconds from secure locations, sending an antorage of the worst things imaginable to the middle east, leveling the entire vicinity of mankind in the region. This being said, we have neutron bomb capabilities as well, which would kill everyperson within its targeted range (without falling a single building)... Imagine that... 3000 neutron bombs completely wiping out the entire population of iran without knocking out a single building...

Whats worse is our spy technology, which we use against our own citizens; That we obviously use against ourenemies as well as our allies on a daily basis. My guess would be not a single general of any army's actions go unnoticed from the united states intelligence communities. With the drop of a pen we could kill any target (including thousands of targets at once) in a timeframe of 1 to 13 minutes...

The truth is we leave iran to boast because they are somewhat attempting to grow as a nation. But the reality is they will never overcome the united states military, because they are arrogant and uninformed as to exactly how prepared we are to deal with the slightest of threats from their nation.

Should they ever act on a threat I am certain the united states would counter with an irrevocable consequence which would effect the entire nation of iran. That being said until Your prescious iran makes a single attempt at backing its threats up. They are doind what iran does... Trying to bully their way to the top. Because lets face it, they have been and always will be on the bottom until their way of life is considered "productive"...

That being said iran will destroy its self far before the usa would ever destroy its self. and in all honesty the usa destroying itsself is quite possibly the only way it will ever be destroyed. because our nation has far to many naughty toys to offer the planet, and iran has nothing to compare to these weapons...

Could they send a sneeky attack and wipe out a city or two.. Yep...

Would we without question send them a counter attack... yep.

think pearl harbor + 40 years of advanced military tech.

This thread says fail all over it!
Anonymous Coward
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08/19/2012 04:32 PM
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Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
Lmao the only thing the wiki article shows is only America can beat America!
CrazyBud

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08/19/2012 04:32 PM
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Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
because Millenium Challenge 2002 says so

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

US for the very first time will be defeated by the Persian army and it would be an embarrassment for the Americans
 Quoting: moeskyhigh


You are refering to MSEL injects by the gamer, and just like video games enemy forces respawn and do the impossible. Fortunately...we have more than just the 5th Fleet and a computer scenario.

The Iranian deserts do make the Iraqi deserts look like prairies...
 Quoting: CrazyBud


a video game that cost $250 million ...ppfff whatever
 Quoting: moeskyhigh


yep...used to be a white cell guy
There's plenty of room for all God's creatures, right next to the mashed potatoes...noli timere messorem
Simon23k
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08/19/2012 04:33 PM
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Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
just for the record as far as the christian/catholic bible stated in revelation when the war with israel/iran starts then WW3 will be shortly starting thereafter. Not a prediction but written in the bible.
jay-j

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08/19/2012 04:33 PM
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Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
Burn a few tankers in the strait to fuck with radar and GPS. Detonate explosives in the water to fuck with sonar signatures.

Lure the US into a narrow strait, beat the hell out of them with cheap but plentiful munitions, run your swifts up into the middle of the crowd.

Attack with all you got in the air, then....


Dear Lord, I hope we have one Admiral in the US Navy that ain't an arrogant careerist moron.
 Quoting: AmericanJedi


Amen, brother.
jay-j
Anonymous Coward
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08/19/2012 04:40 PM
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Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
Sure.....Iran's Tonka Toy Navy, I'm sure their victory strategy was worked out in their leaders bathtub. Listen, I'll give you a hint. No military equipment producing nation sells their best or latest products to third world nations. We only sell them what we no longer need and so does every other nation like Russia because we have already developed something that makes the products they purchase obsolete. You can be sure of that.
The one country that we sell better products to is Israel, but we still don't give them our new packages. If they try to take on an element like our 5th fleet, they will go down in flames and they are not fools, they know it already.
AmericanJedi

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08/19/2012 04:40 PM
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Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
@ OP...

This thread completely fails to acknowledge that the usa has spent trillions upon trillions of dollars on military technological research...

what everyone here on the internet banks on is nuclear technology as (being our primary defense) against Iran or global threats more over; however...

the last great discovery in military complexity was 20 years ago... (the stealth). We have multiple sources admitting that aircraft technology has advanced in the military spectrum; (craft like the aurora and even new drone technology). But we are simply clueless to what type of existing technology has and will emerge in the event of a full scale war in the middle east.

Furthermore our us government harbors technology, simple public released devices (such as the droid) were released to the millitary and used in active service for nearly 10 years prior to thier "public release". Meaning that even existing militar "communication devices" are far more advanced that anything apple offers the greater population. Now lets go back to nuclear talk. "as being our quote aresanal" The united states has multiple infection and disease research facilities that play with the most leathal and toxic substances (not even released to mankind). What is to osay we need a nuclear bomb in this day and age, when just one simple vile of god knows what is introduced into an enemy territory. Being we are the creators of these great pandemical secrets, we should consider that we have multiple failsafes to keep these types of weapons from affecting any usa citizen in our own nation.

So I completely dis agree with your logic on what iran is capable of. If they had the means to do anything they threat, they would do it now. (why wait)....

Thats right, the bottom line is they have nothing to compare to american technology... even if they sent multiple nuclear tipped missiles to every state in our nation, our world leaders and military would respond within seconds from secure locations, sending an antorage of the worst things imaginable to the middle east, leveling the entire vicinity of mankind in the region. This being said, we have neutron bomb capabilities as well, which would kill everyperson within its targeted range (without falling a single building)... Imagine that... 3000 neutron bombs completely wiping out the entire population of iran without knocking out a single building...

Whats worse is our spy technology, which we use against our own citizens; That we obviously use against ourenemies as well as our allies on a daily basis. My guess would be not a single general of any army's actions go unnoticed from the united states intelligence communities. With the drop of a pen we could kill any target (including thousands of targets at once) in a timeframe of 1 to 13 minutes...

The truth is we leave iran to boast because they are somewhat attempting to grow as a nation. But the reality is they will never overcome the united states military, because they are arrogant and uninformed as to exactly how prepared we are to deal with the slightest of threats from their nation.

Should they ever act on a threat I am certain the united states would counter with an irrevocable consequence which would effect the entire nation of iran. That being said until Your prescious iran makes a single attempt at backing its threats up. They are doind what iran does... Trying to bully their way to the top. Because lets face it, they have been and always will be on the bottom until their way of life is considered "productive"...

That being said iran will destroy its self far before the usa would ever destroy its self. and in all honesty the usa destroying itsself is quite possibly the only way it will ever be destroyed. because our nation has far to many naughty toys to offer the planet, and iran has nothing to compare to these weapons...

Could they send a sneeky attack and wipe out a city or two.. Yep...

Would we without question send them a counter attack... yep.

think pearl harbor + 40 years of advanced military tech.

This thread says fail all over it!
 Quoting: needapaddle? 21274936


All it takes is a single tactical nuke, used in an airburst say 1500 feet above a fleet and all the toys and tools cook like everything else.

You assume that Russian or Chinese hard-line dissenters wouldn't put TN's in their hands just to fuck with us.
(GLP aka American Jedi)

Listen here you beautiful bitch, I'm about to fuck you up with some truth.
Kenny Powers

If you steal the dreams of others long enough, sooner or later you'll end up in a nightmare.
American Jedi

Intellectuals solve problems, geniuses prevent them.
Albert Einstein

Satis Eloquentiae, Sapientiae Parum....

"The last of the old?"

"No, the first of the new."
moeskyhigh (OP)

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08/19/2012 04:42 PM

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Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
@ OP...

This thread completely fails to acknowledge that the usa has spent trillions upon trillions of dollars on military technological research...

what everyone here on the internet banks on is nuclear technology as (being our primary defense) against Iran or global threats more over; however...

the last great discovery in military complexity was 20 years ago... (the stealth). We have multiple sources admitting that aircraft technology has advanced in the military spectrum; (craft like the aurora and even new drone technology). But we are simply clueless to what type of existing technology has and will emerge in the event of a full scale war in the middle east.

Furthermore our us government harbors technology, simple public released devices (such as the droid) were released to the millitary and used in active service for nearly 10 years prior to thier "public release". Meaning that even existing militar "communication devices" are far more advanced that anything apple offers the greater population. Now lets go back to nuclear talk. "as being our quote aresanal" The united states has multiple infection and disease research facilities that play with the most leathal and toxic substances (not even released to mankind). What is to osay we need a nuclear bomb in this day and age, when just one simple vile of god knows what is introduced into an enemy territory. Being we are the creators of these great pandemical secrets, we should consider that we have multiple failsafes to keep these types of weapons from affecting any usa citizen in our own nation.

So I completely dis agree with your logic on what iran is capable of. If they had the means to do anything they threat, they would do it now. (why wait)....

Thats right, the bottom line is they have nothing to compare to american technology... even if they sent multiple nuclear tipped missiles to every state in our nation, our world leaders and military would respond within seconds from secure locations, sending an antorage of the worst things imaginable to the middle east, leveling the entire vicinity of mankind in the region. This being said, we have neutron bomb capabilities as well, which would kill everyperson within its targeted range (without falling a single building)... Imagine that... 3000 neutron bombs completely wiping out the entire population of iran without knocking out a single building...

Whats worse is our spy technology, which we use against our own citizens; That we obviously use against ourenemies as well as our allies on a daily basis. My guess would be not a single general of any army's actions go unnoticed from the united states intelligence communities. With the drop of a pen we could kill any target (including thousands of targets at once) in a timeframe of 1 to 13 minutes...

The truth is we leave iran to boast because they are somewhat attempting to grow as a nation. But the reality is they will never overcome the united states military, because they are arrogant and uninformed as to exactly how prepared we are to deal with the slightest of threats from their nation.

Should they ever act on a threat I am certain the united states would counter with an irrevocable consequence which would effect the entire nation of iran. That being said until Your prescious iran makes a single attempt at backing its threats up. They are doind what iran does... Trying to bully their way to the top. Because lets face it, they have been and always will be on the bottom until their way of life is considered "productive"...

That being said iran will destroy its self far before the usa would ever destroy its self. and in all honesty the usa destroying itsself is quite possibly the only way it will ever be destroyed. because our nation has far to many naughty toys to offer the planet, and iran has nothing to compare to these weapons...

Could they send a sneeky attack and wipe out a city or two.. Yep...

Would we without question send them a counter attack... yep.

think pearl harbor + 40 years of advanced military tech.

This thread says fail all over it!
 Quoting: needapaddle? 21274936


first of all..do you know that Iran has been laundering trillions of $$ that could've been spent on the military? do you really believe Iran's spending is that low...okay now let's assume Iran's budgets are that low in military defense .. but have you heard of Assymetric Warfare?? that means very cheap but with huge payload

and the last thing i remember is that the Iranians caught your 'Stealth Aircraft Drone" and brought it down systematically while your government lied to you and said that it was shattered into million pieces.. so am i going to now believe Iran can't defend itself from your stealth drones??

Last Edited by moeskyhigh on 08/19/2012 04:43 PM
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moeskyhigh (OP)

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08/19/2012 04:46 PM

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Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
Sure.....Iran's Tonka Toy Navy, I'm sure their victory strategy was worked out in their leaders bathtub. Listen, I'll give you a hint. No military equipment producing nation sells their best or latest products to third world nations. We only sell them what we no longer need and so does every other nation like Russia because we have already developed something that makes the products they purchase obsolete. You can be sure of that.
The one country that we sell better products to is Israel, but we still don't give them our new packages. If they try to take on an element like our 5th fleet, they will go down in flames and they are not fools, they know it already.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6928475


Iran doesn't need 400 million dollar ships..all they need is a couple of sunburn missiles to sink those ships
We are all One
--Voltaic--

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08/19/2012 04:46 PM

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Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
Doubt it, the US Navy is more powerful then you can possibly imagine.
Do your absolute best and the rest is fate.
moeskyhigh (OP)

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08/19/2012 04:47 PM

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Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
navy
 Quoting: T Ceti H.C. Radnarg


yea and the Iranians are not Iraqies or Afghanis either

lmao
We are all One
moeskyhigh (OP)

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08/19/2012 04:48 PM

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Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
Doubt it, the US Navy is more powerful then you can possibly imagine.
 Quoting: --Voltaic--


it is powerful alright but it sure does have its weaknesses ... n Hezbollah shown you guys in 2006 and still are not impressed
We are all One
Anonymous Coward
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08/19/2012 04:48 PM
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Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
The easiest way to get a spy drone into top secret iranian facilities......let them land it and take it in......duh!
Simon23k
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08/19/2012 04:48 PM
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Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
i forsee another lusitania incident, just to spur world war. False flag is all the elite want before its goes forward. And many will believe it was to someone else's fault before understanding the true facts.
Anonymous Coward
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08/19/2012 04:50 PM
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Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
All it takes is a single tactical nuke, used in an airburst say 1500 feet above a fleet and all the toys and tools cook like everything else.

You assume that Russian or Chinese hard-line dissenters wouldn't put TN's in their hands just to fuck with us.
 Quoting: AmericanJedi


This is the point, I believe
gB
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08/19/2012 04:51 PM
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Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
We are America, we can not be defeated !!!

Anonymous Coward
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08/19/2012 04:51 PM
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Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
Defeat? No. They'll kill a lot o American's if it comes to be that's for sure though.
Anonymous Coward
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08/19/2012 04:52 PM
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Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
Invaders tend to lose wars.
Anonymous Coward
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08/19/2012 04:52 PM
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Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
you ppl really think i give a damn about red karmas? this is something you don't hear on your t.v or school..this is what Internet is good for

the reality is Iran is too strong to be invaded and they will make u know that for sure as soon as you attack them...
 Quoting: moeskyhigh


Hahahaha, Keep dropping the RED KARMA on this terrorist luvin butt munch, it's obviously pissing him off Someone report him to DHS, they will REACH for him, fucking terrorist supporter, FUCK YOU.
Anonymous Coward
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08/19/2012 04:53 PM
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Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
because Millenium Challenge 2002 says so

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

US for the very first time will be defeated by the Persian army and it would be an embarrassment for the Americans
 Quoting: moeskyhigh


Hahahahah!! Heheheheheh!!!!! Hohoho hohoho!!!! Your are killing me. Lamo!!!! lmao1rof1
AmericanJedi

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08/19/2012 04:53 PM
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Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
Here's a war game scenario that might make some here take pause. Let me preface this by saying I love this country, USA! I also believe in our alliance with Israel.

That said, play this out.

First, the US Navy is lured into the strait. The Iranians torch a couple of dozen tankers and set them adrift essentially creating havoc for radar and GPS.

Meanwhile, the Syrians, Hezbollah, and the US Ally, the Egyptian muslim brotherhood see an opportunity to attack Israel.

Surround on all sides and fighting for her life, Israel doesn't help the USA. Seizing the moment, Iran uses chemical weapons on Israel and they use whatever they've got to hit the US fleets.

Maybe China gave them 10 one kiloton tactical nukes and they dump them on the US Fleets in the Persian Gulf. And they save a couple to dump on US forces in Iraq and Afghanistan.

So, the USA isn't beaten. We're bruised and a couple of cracked ribs, but our only real ally in the gulf is dead. And the Chinese and Russians, now know, if the Iranians can dot our eye, then we can definitely knock out the giant.

Do they attack us? Probably not. Is the above scenario likely? I don't know, but it's a tad more thoughtful than "TEAM A-MAR-IKA! FUCK YEAH" and reciting "global force for good slogans."

Reality, will probably be somewhere in between.
(GLP aka American Jedi)

Listen here you beautiful bitch, I'm about to fuck you up with some truth.
Kenny Powers

If you steal the dreams of others long enough, sooner or later you'll end up in a nightmare.
American Jedi

Intellectuals solve problems, geniuses prevent them.
Albert Einstein

Satis Eloquentiae, Sapientiae Parum....

"The last of the old?"

"No, the first of the new."
AmericanJedi

User ID: 1503533
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08/19/2012 04:55 PM
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Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
Here's a war game scenario that might make some here take pause. Let me preface this by saying I love this country, USA! I also believe in our alliance with Israel.

That said, play this out.

First, the US Navy is lured into the strait. The Iranians torch a couple of dozen tankers and set them adrift essentially creating havoc for radar and GPS.

Meanwhile, the Syrians, Hezbollah, and the US Ally, the Egyptian muslim brotherhood see an opportunity to attack Israel.

Surround on all sides and fighting for her life, Israel doesn't help the USA. Seizing the moment, Iran uses chemical weapons on Israel and they use whatever they've got to hit the US fleets.

Maybe China gave them 10 one kiloton tactical nukes and they dump them on the US Fleets in the Persian Gulf. And they save a couple to dump on US forces in Iraq and Afghanistan.

So, the USA isn't beaten. We're bruised and a couple of cracked ribs, but our only real ally in the gulf is dead. And the Chinese and Russians, now know, if the Iranians can dot our eye, then we can definitely knock out the giant.

Do they attack us? Probably not. Is the above scenario likely? I don't know, but it's a tad more thoughtful than "TEAM A-MAR-IKA! FUCK YEAH" and reciting "global force for good slogans."

Reality, will probably be somewhere in between.
 Quoting: AmericanJedi


Oh and don't forget Hamas! Skillet slap

Last Edited by Mad Scientist (aka AmJedi) on 08/19/2012 04:55 PM
(GLP aka American Jedi)

Listen here you beautiful bitch, I'm about to fuck you up with some truth.
Kenny Powers

If you steal the dreams of others long enough, sooner or later you'll end up in a nightmare.
American Jedi

Intellectuals solve problems, geniuses prevent them.
Albert Einstein

Satis Eloquentiae, Sapientiae Parum....

"The last of the old?"

"No, the first of the new."