Godlike Productions - Conspiracy Forum
Users Online Now: 2,558 (Who's On?)Visitors Today: 2,225,542
Pageviews Today: 3,048,910Threads Today: 783Posts Today: 12,578
10:10 PM


Rate this Thread

Absolute BS Crap Reasonable Nice Amazing
 

I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1438401
United States
08/19/2012 07:59 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
because Millenium Challenge 2002 says so

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

US for the very first time will be defeated by the Persian army and it would be an embarrassment for the Americans
 Quoting: moeskyhigh


In what part of history has the American military ever won?
Desert FoxModerator
Forum Moderator

User ID: 8786935
United States
08/19/2012 07:59 PM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
Won't happen until Door Bert says so.
TOMABANEFOX
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1281779
United States
08/19/2012 08:00 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
you cunts are sitting down your fat asses watching Merica Fuck yeah....
 Quoting: moeskyhigh


You Mad Bro ?

cruise
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 11132818
United States
08/19/2012 08:02 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
I'm glad someone mentioned those floating flying triangles. They have been wargaming them above Philadelphia in the NE over the last few years. They fly very low, about what seems like only 40 feet above rooftops and can turn on some device that renders them invisible to the eye. Right after this, within 10 minutes the air is full of military helicopters, both marked and "black" unmarked types with strange red canopy covers where you cannot see inside, but they are definitely using some sort of device to try to track the object. I figure they have those triangles stored over in New Jersey at a base there, because they are always using the same approach pattern.

This craft can be right above your area and you would not be able to see it. If it ever was carrying a thermonuclear device it could literally drop it on your head and be on the horizon before it explodes! That is what is in store for Iran.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6928475


The Wehrmacht had weapons light years ahead of the Allies. Didn't do them any good, as Hitler, Bormann, Canaris were giving the plans to the russians. Didn't Bormann get caught sending info to the Russians?

I'm not discussing military hardware with anyone, because only fokup would think they know everything about the Iran, U.S., Russian capabilities.

I"m talking traitor in Office. I'm looking from the outside so I'm unbiased politically, I don't travel to the U.S. either or ever talk to Americans........but I don't trust this marxist, Obama guy.

Why do you trust this guy as your General in chief? I look in puzzlement as why nobody knows anything about him. We know all about our leaders in my country; even going back centuries.

Forget about sneaking up on an Iranian and dropping a nuke......Obama may drop something on you.
 Quoting: Brubaker


gracias i vaya con dios, hermano
moeskyhigh (OP)

User ID: 21592439
Canada
08/19/2012 08:03 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
OP, you raise some interesting points, but do you really think nobody in the US Navy hasn't thought about this in the last 10 years either? The armed forces aren't as bureaucratic as the rest of the government, and the US navy can, even in the worst case senerio, absorb a LOT of losses before needing to surrender. And even if the fifth fleet was by some stroke of luck destroyed by Iran, it's a small part of the overall Navy, and there are more ships they can bring to bare.

All the posters armchair general-ing in this topic really need to grow up. War can be crazy, and chaos filled. But the fact is the OP can have his opinion on who would win in this theoretical conflict, and you can to, it won't change what happens if it comes to pass.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20479168


read this article

[link to www.strategic-culture.org]
We are all One
moeskyhigh (OP)

User ID: 21592439
Canada
08/19/2012 08:05 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
Won't happen until Door Bert says so.
 Quoting: Desert Fox


so if america attacks iran today, then be sure db will give the news on how iran destroyed the 5th fleet n other bases
We are all One
Desert FoxModerator
Forum Moderator

User ID: 8786935
United States
08/19/2012 08:07 PM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
Won't happen until Door Bert says so.
 Quoting: Desert Fox


so if america attacks iran today, then be sure db will give the news on how iran destroyed the 5th fleet n other bases
 Quoting: moeskyhigh


You are the funniest op of the day, I'll give you that.
TOMABANEFOX
Passin' Through

User ID: 14422899
United States
08/19/2012 08:07 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
Anyone that quotes wikipoopia and has a pot leaf for an avatar must be believable, right?


NO!!!!
“If Noah’s flood really did occur, what would you expect to find? Billions of dead things, buried in rock layers, laid down by water, all over the earth.” And guess what we find? Billions of dead things, buried in rock layers, laid down by water, all over the earth.
moeskyhigh (OP)

User ID: 21592439
Canada
08/19/2012 08:08 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
Won't happen until Door Bert says so.
 Quoting: Desert Fox


so if america attacks iran today, then be sure db will give the news on how iran destroyed the 5th fleet n other bases
 Quoting: moeskyhigh


You are the funniest op of the day, I'll give you that.
 Quoting: Desert Fox


i'm not being funny...i'm dead seriousdoomsol
We are all One
moeskyhigh (OP)

User ID: 21592439
Canada
08/19/2012 08:09 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
Anyone that quotes wikipoopia and has a pot leaf for an avatar must be believable, right?


NO!!!!
 Quoting: Passin' Through


so millenium challenge was a fake? lmao
We are all One
chris999

User ID: 19470458
United States
08/19/2012 08:11 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
A few things.... First the 2002 exercise was 10 years ago and the whole point of it was to develop strategies to fight smaller navies. Second the 2002 exercise was ran by a very good Marine General if I recall correctly. Third the US 5th fleet isn't just going to pull up to the Iranian coast to be swarmed by small ships. They will be miles away launching air strikes. Any ships that get close will be destroyed. Missiles are a problem but if there is a war against Iran they will be targeted first.


Modern Navies as a whole worry me during these times. It's way to easy to destroy ships using missiles these days. I think in the next large war there will be very heavy naval losses and Naval doctrine will change as a result of that. I think subs will be much more important in the future.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10729761


I agree with you, but this is the exact type of thinking that is the reason why humans are not going to make it to the Star-Trek type of future that we all want.

We spend all of our technological ability finding better ways to kill each other, instead of trying to find ways to make life better.
I dont mean everything I say to be literal. I just like to throw around ideas, and play devil's advocate.

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.

-Galileo Galilei
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 11132818
United States
08/19/2012 08:12 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
OP, you raise some interesting points, but do you really think nobody in the US Navy hasn't thought about this in the last 10 years either? The armed forces aren't as bureaucratic as the rest of the government, and the US navy can, even in the worst case senerio, absorb a LOT of losses before needing to surrender. And even if the fifth fleet was by some stroke of luck destroyed by Iran, it's a small part of the overall Navy, and there are more ships they can bring to bare.

All the posters armchair general-ing in this topic really need to grow up. War can be crazy, and chaos filled. But the fact is the OP can have his opinion on who would win in this theoretical conflict, and you can to, it won't change what happens if it comes to pass.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20479168


the americans intend to win by the amount of money they spend, and every one expects to do it in comfort and to go home. Those are their only beliefs.

the muz dont care about the above, they simply want to win for their beliefs, and will do what it humanly takes even if it kills them. Americans dont understand that, and are unprepared for that tactic, even now.
Passin' Through

User ID: 14422899
United States
08/19/2012 08:12 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
Anyone that quotes wikipoopia and has a pot leaf for an avatar must be believable, right?


NO!!!!
 Quoting: Passin' Through


so millenium challenge was a fake? lmao
 Quoting: moeskyhigh


It's a credibility thing
“If Noah’s flood really did occur, what would you expect to find? Billions of dead things, buried in rock layers, laid down by water, all over the earth.” And guess what we find? Billions of dead things, buried in rock layers, laid down by water, all over the earth.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 17793849
United States
08/19/2012 08:16 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
because Millenium Challenge 2002 says so

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

US for the very first time will be defeated by the Persian army and it would be an embarrassment for the Americans
 Quoting: moeskyhigh


You dumb ass

That was not an international exercise, both teams were American.
moeskyhigh (OP)

User ID: 21592439
Canada
08/19/2012 08:16 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
OP, you raise some interesting points, but do you really think nobody in the US Navy hasn't thought about this in the last 10 years either? The armed forces aren't as bureaucratic as the rest of the government, and the US navy can, even in the worst case senerio, absorb a LOT of losses before needing to surrender. And even if the fifth fleet was by some stroke of luck destroyed by Iran, it's a small part of the overall Navy, and there are more ships they can bring to bare.

All the posters armchair general-ing in this topic really need to grow up. War can be crazy, and chaos filled. But the fact is the OP can have his opinion on who would win in this theoretical conflict, and you can to, it won't change what happens if it comes to pass.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20479168


the americans intend to win by the amount of money they spend, and every one expects to do it in comfort and to go home. Those are their only beliefs.

the muz dont care about the above, they simply want to win for their beliefs, and will do what it humanly takes even if it kills them. Americans dont understand that, and are unprepared for that tactic, even now.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11132818


^^this
We are all One
moeskyhigh (OP)

User ID: 21592439
Canada
08/19/2012 08:17 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
because Millenium Challenge 2002 says so

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

US for the very first time will be defeated by the Persian army and it would be an embarrassment for the Americans
 Quoting: moeskyhigh


You dumb ass

That was not an international exercise, both teams were American.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17793849


when did i ever say it was international?! iamwith
We are all One
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 20479168
United States
08/19/2012 08:19 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
OP, you raise some interesting points, but do you really think nobody in the US Navy hasn't thought about this in the last 10 years either? The armed forces aren't as bureaucratic as the rest of the government, and the US navy can, even in the worst case senerio, absorb a LOT of losses before needing to surrender. And even if the fifth fleet was by some stroke of luck destroyed by Iran, it's a small part of the overall Navy, and there are more ships they can bring to bare.

All the posters armchair general-ing in this topic really need to grow up. War can be crazy, and chaos filled. But the fact is the OP can have his opinion on who would win in this theoretical conflict, and you can to, it won't change what happens if it comes to pass.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20479168


read this article

[link to www.strategic-culture.org]
 Quoting: moeskyhigh


Okay, I did.

First of all, the author, Viktor BURBAKI. Does he have an account here? I can only find a handful of articles written by him, with no evidence of any background to support him knowing what he's talking about, with most of his news articles revolving around trumping that a "Great war" is "Imminent" for nearly 5 months now. This guy is as much an armchair general as anyone in this topic, just a little more researched.

As for the article, it's extremely vague and unspecific in how Iran would accomplish any of the goals he suggests they do. I presents a senerio where all major powers in the region join Iran in their struggle, which is insane with Iraq occupied and Syria in the middle of a civil war. It talks about Terrorist attacks against civilians but, let's be honest now, what Civilians in the middle east are Americans going to care about? There are not so many Iranian sleeper agents in America they can strike us here very well, and the possibility of doping something major like 9/11 is low, and in any case might have the Opposite effect to what they would want.

In conclusion, it was a decent article but it is FAR from proving that Iran would prevail in such a conflict.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 20479168
United States
08/19/2012 08:21 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
OP, you raise some interesting points, but do you really think nobody in the US Navy hasn't thought about this in the last 10 years either? The armed forces aren't as bureaucratic as the rest of the government, and the US navy can, even in the worst case senerio, absorb a LOT of losses before needing to surrender. And even if the fifth fleet was by some stroke of luck destroyed by Iran, it's a small part of the overall Navy, and there are more ships they can bring to bare.

All the posters armchair general-ing in this topic really need to grow up. War can be crazy, and chaos filled. But the fact is the OP can have his opinion on who would win in this theoretical conflict, and you can to, it won't change what happens if it comes to pass.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20479168


the americans intend to win by the amount of money they spend, and every one expects to do it in comfort and to go home. Those are their only beliefs.

the muz dont care about the above, they simply want to win for their beliefs, and will do what it humanly takes even if it kills them. Americans dont understand that, and are unprepared for that tactic, even now.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11132818


That did not necessarily let the Japanese win, and it will not necessarily let the Iranians win here. Even IF their culture is as single minded as you think, which, talking with people I know in Iran, I do not think they are.
chris999

User ID: 19470458
United States
08/19/2012 08:26 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
I am going to spell this out in truthfulness... I hope this war doesnt happen, but I think it will, and this is what will happen.

Iran could potentially defeat the US Navy if all of our firepower were huddled close in the Straight... but USA will not do that because we have far superior long-range weapons. Our ships will start an attack from outside the reach of Iran's weapons, and destroy most of their capabilities to fight back by taking out communications, and anti-air capabilities.

I suspect that most of the support flagships of the Iranian Navy will be unk by US Air Force and Navy fighters so that our Carriers dont have to be within the range of a 'guerilla type' swarm attack such as the 2002 Millenium Challenge.

Once the Iranian Navy threat is decimated, our carrier groups will be able to move in closer to Iran's shores to make the bombing campaign more efficient.

Hopefully they will confirm destruction of nuclear capabilities and end the war. I see no reason why we should have to put boots on the ground.

I feel sorry for the Persian Iranian people because they are about to be run-over by the murderous Sunni Arabs. I hope that America has some kind of plan to relocate the Shias and Allawites (sorry for misspelling) to somewhere safe before the Muslim Brotherhood clams their new territory.

In the end, all of this muslim brotherhood shit is going to destroy Israel anyway... I hate to see Americans supportting a war effort that cannot be won, against a people who are no threat to us. It disgusts me.
I dont mean everything I say to be literal. I just like to throw around ideas, and play devil's advocate.

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.

-Galileo Galilei
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 22263508
United States
08/19/2012 08:32 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
because Millenium Challenge 2002 says so

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

US for the very first time will be defeated by the Persian army and it would be an embarrassment for the Americans
 Quoting: moeskyhigh


Yet one more asshole Canadian betting AGAINST the US, their neighbor, and hoping the US loses

You have no idea how much I have come to LOATHE Canada and the nasty self-impressed, holier-than-thou, passive aggressive and yet so bland douchebags who live in that icebound tundra

I hate you guys. I really do. I am so tired of reading your anti-american bullshit, your non-stop bashing of the American people (not just our goverment), your gloating over any little downturn we experience

Americans have never been as unkind, as rude or plain vicious towards Canadians as you are on a daily basis

The worst sin we ever committed is not know enough about your geography and your history. But we were nice to nearly every Canadian who came to spend time in Florida or elsehwere in the US

Meanwhile, Canadians are just plain nasty, and I make it my new policy to return in kind to any visiting Canadian I find on my way

Your words and actions have spoken volumes and if Canada were ever in trouble, I wouldn't even cross the street to raise a nickel for you

Assholes x 100

Go fuck yourselves
s. d. butler

User ID: 974819
United States
08/19/2012 08:40 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
Anyone that quotes wikipoopia and has a pot leaf for an avatar must be believable, right?


NO!!!!
 Quoting: Passin' Through


so millenium challenge was a fake? lmao
 Quoting: moeskyhigh


It's a credibility thing
 Quoting: Passin' Through


I read about it at the time from multiple sources. Seemed credible to me. In fact IIRC the general playing the red commander had a few things to say about it himself.

It's just asymetric warfighting. Something the US doesn't do all that well. For multiple reasons.

It all adds up to a very good reason not to initiate a war with Iran. Besides the fact that the US is bankrupt.

Last Edited by s. d. butler on 08/19/2012 08:45 PM
moeskyhigh (OP)

User ID: 21592439
Canada
08/19/2012 08:43 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
I am going to spell this out in truthfulness... I hope this war doesnt happen, but I think it will, and this is what will happen.

Iran could potentially defeat the US Navy if all of our firepower were huddled close in the Straight... but USA will not do that because we have far superior long-range weapons. Our ships will start an attack from outside the reach of Iran's weapons, and destroy most of their capabilities to fight back by taking out communications, and anti-air capabilities.

I suspect that most of the support flagships of the Iranian Navy will be unk by US Air Force and Navy fighters so that our Carriers dont have to be within the range of a 'guerilla type' swarm attack such as the 2002 Millenium Challenge.

Once the Iranian Navy threat is decimated, our carrier groups will be able to move in closer to Iran's shores to make the bombing campaign more efficient.

Hopefully they will confirm destruction of nuclear capabilities and end the war. I see no reason why we should have to put boots on the ground.

I feel sorry for the Persian Iranian people because they are about to be run-over by the murderous Sunni Arabs. I hope that America has some kind of plan to relocate the Shias and Allawites (sorry for misspelling) to somewhere safe before the Muslim Brotherhood clams their new territory.

In the end, all of this muslim brotherhood shit is going to destroy Israel anyway... I hate to see Americans supportting a war effort that cannot be won, against a people who are no threat to us. It disgusts me.
 Quoting: chris999


okay now allow me to elaborate on how Iran can defend themselves

about war with Iran scenerio
don't be too naive..read this page and do your research then come talk to me with a legitimate counter argument..if i see a message of you calling names then i would know that you have no idea what you're talking about.

If attack on Iran happens anyway, two scenarios possible:

1. Air-strikes only. Since nuclear and other critical facilities are dispersed and most are deep underground and well protected, air-strikes would have a limited impact. Iran might even not retaliate on a large scale if damage is minimal, to avoid confrontation growing to a full-scale war.


Israel is the main force behind possible attack on Iran, and their reasoning is based on a lie - Iran president never said "we will wipe Israel off the map", its a fake mistranslation, and yet its the cornerstone of Israel's foreign politics and a possible war against Iran! Iran president simply said: "The Zionist regime will pass away, just as Soviet regime fell in Russia." In the same speech further: "The human and civil rights of all people, including jewish people, Christians and Muslims must be respected."

Air-strikes most definitely wouldnt change Iran's nuclear (peaceful or otherwise) ambitions, if anything - they might push Iran to withdraw from NPT, kick out IAEA from the country, and start making ultimate deterrence - nuclear bombs.

2. A full-scale war. Its the only hypothetical solution to take from Iran nuclear ambitions - by changing (i.e. killing) current government and pretty much everyone who supports it, and placing puppet regime instead.

Attack should happen in all fronts - air, navy, ground and info war.

* Navy.

US have the strongest NAVY in the World, however its vulnerable to swarm attack, as shown in Millennium Challenge 2002, when most of US Navy was destroyed in an exercise: Millennium Challenge 2002 - [link to en.wikipedia.org]

US is trying to address swarm issue with Mk 38 Mod 2 machine gun (reliable up to 2,5 km, when target moves as predicted) and helicopters Hellfire (in the future might include Rayguns, etc). let's not forget the sunburn anti-ship missiles Iran poses that US has no air defense capability to hit them. anyways..

Several issues with this defense - speedboats dont even have to come close, Iran's anti-ship missiles have 15-300 km range, up to 2000 km if we include Sejjil and other ballistic missiles (Iran recently successfully tested 2 such missiles hitting targets at 1900+km range in Indian ocean). Hit and run swarm strategy by hundreds of missile boats should still be very effective, plus specifically against US helicopters Iran developed new missiles as well.

US Navy defense against missiles:

Remember how a single 1st generation Iranian Kowsar did major damage and sunk the best Israel 5-Class corvette? Israel said their defense was down, and regardless if we believe them or not, consider the fact Iran has thousands of 3rd generation Kowsar's, and its the weakest anti-ship missile in Iran disposal!

US would use their most advanced AEGIS ABM with SM-3, in controlled tests it has success rate 80+% (1-2 missiles at the same time). If there are more missiles - intercept accuracy significantly drops, and after ~13 tries to intercept missiles, ships run out of initial battery and becomes exposed.

US Naval War college estimates:

"The U.S. Navy's Targeting Problem. The Navy would almost certainly fire two ABMs (AEGIS SM-3) against each of the incoming ASBMs. Doing so would of course increase the probability of a successful intercept. However, with only twenty-four or twenty-five ABMs aboard, each Aegis ship escorting a carrier would at that rate be able to engage at most thirteen ASBMs."

"the fact that many kinds of penetration aids are quite cheap relative to ABMs is one reason why the United States cannot "buy its way out" of this problem."

Iran strategy:

simultaneous attack of wide range missiles, speedboats, subs, etc. 30-50 various missiles per warship plus decoys ("Persian Gulf", Ghader, Qiam, Kowsar, Nasr, Noor, Raad, Fajre Darya, underwater Supercavitation torpedo Hoot, various other torpedoes,Sunburn, mines, etc), and no US warship can survive that, maybe except aircraft carriers. For those Iran might use several more ballistic missiles (or not - if intention isnt to sink but to disable them - who needs sunken carriers with nuclear reactors in their backyard waters? ;-)

Bottom line: US Navy will keep out of Persian Gulf if the war starts, unless they want to provide high-tech houses for the local coral reef ;-) Most likely Navy would stay at reasonably safe 2000+ km distance. This would limit their contribution, but its better than a sunken fleet. Which means that Iran is very capable of closing the straight of Hormuz and it will initiate WW3.

* Airforce.

Iran most definitely is inferior head-to-head in air combat. Iran's SAM, AAA, etc. are quite decent, and should provide quite a challenge for US/NATO forces. Also Iran instead of few large stationary radar systems, focuses on mobile radars, including stealth detecting, passive/untraceable ones. Thus US airforce cant destroy them all, as it usually does as soon as they attack some country.

"Israel itself predicts that a major air assault to knock out Iran's nuclear facilities would involve the loss of fully one-third of the planes, which would be knocked out by missiles and Russian-provided air defense systems." And thats one wave, if each wave loses 1/3 of the planes, very soon Israel wouldnt have any airforce at all ;-)

As mentioned above, US Navy would most likely stay 2000+ km away, and as admitted by US:

"U.S. Air Force can conduct air operations most efficiently from bases no more than five hundred miles away from the target."

US bases in near-by countries are all within reach of Iran's ballistic missiles. In the first few days of the war, those bases should be either destroyed, or at least unusable for aircrafts.

Bottom line: for airstrikes USAF main weapon would be long range bombers and cruise missiles, some of them would be intercepted. Considering US limited airstrikes and well protected underground critical facilities, damage against those would be limited, however more extensive against civilian objects. US would try to destroy power lines, water supplies, etc.

* Ground forces.

If US/NATO wants to win over Iran, ground forces are essential. However that's were the most casualties would come from, for both sides. Iran has well trained and armed 1,2 million soldiers (regular army and reserve), plus 12 mln. trained volunteer forces. They know terrain inside-out, they have extensively prepared for both direct and guerrilla warfare.

Some people tend to dismiss Iran's army, but consider Iranians combat spirit and motivation - Iraq started war against newborn revolutionary regime with no real army (Shah's army was disbanded), Husein got help from US and Russia, and still couldnt win, even tried WMD, Iranians just weren't afraid to sacrifice themselves for the country.

We saw another recent example in Hezbollah-Israel war. Israel has one of the best militaries in the World, while Lebanon is the next door weak neighbor, and yet Israel couldnt win against 1000 Hezbollah members plus 6000+ Hezbollah volunteers, trained by Iranians. Consider Iran has over million of such trained soldiers, and over 12 million volunteers. Iran's terrain is better suited for guerrilla warfare, and they are better and more extensively armed than Hezbollah. Need I say more? NATO simply cant win, all they could do is to temporarily occupy parts of Iran, but due to heavy loses and high cost, its only a matter of time till NATO retreats. Iranians are prepared to die in millions for the country, how about NATO forces?..

* Information war

West would win, no question about it. Most people in the West would believe its all "evil" Iran's fault, how they're making nuclear bombs to attack poor West and Israel (with no evidence, but who cares - worked with Sadam, isnt?).

War stages:

some argue if Iran would be beaten in the initial direct battle and occupation starts, Iran lost the war. In reality after attackers would break through the defenses, war doesnt end, it begins for Iranians. Why? No country in the Middle East could beat US/NATO head on, so initial defenses are meant for deterrence and inflicting some damage, and despite patriotic Iran claims how they would repel the attack, they cant, and they know it better than us.

If you follow Iran's military industry, their goal isnt static, concentrated military, but extremely mobile, dispersed and hidden weaponry, with a massive preparations of underground/cave facilities for guerrilla war. Even their new pride - ballistic Sejjil-2 can be hidden and used from anywhere.

If you think NATO has issues with Afghanistan (Taliban more or less controls 54-72% of the country, after a decade of war with NATO!). Thats only 35.000 people with a locals support, with ancient weapons. Now consider Iranians would fight in millions, with quite advanced weapons and very extensive stockpile, probably with factories deep in the mountains to make more weapons in case of war. If Afghanistan cost NATO 4+ trillions, how much Iran would cost? How many loses NATO could sustain? In my opinion, US and EU would bankrupt faster than win over Iran, or even more likely - there wont be any war in the first place.

That was about Iran, how about other unavoidable outcomes of the war:

1. Israel would not only receive a lot of high-impact precise ballistic missiles from Iran (2000, or so they claimed a year ago), but also Hezbollah and Hamas would do all they can, it wont be pretty. Its possible such war would actually end up with Palestinians regaining lost territories, and Israel would be lucky to keep '67 borders.

2. Severely disrupted oil and gas flow. ~25% of World supply would be cut off during the war. Prices would skyrocket, a lot of countries economies would suffer, some are on the verge of bankruptcy already, war wont help them by any means.

3. Ultimate winners of such war - China and Russia. While US, Israel and EU influence in the region would significantly decrease, especially if/when they lose the war.

Last Edited by moeskyhigh on 08/19/2012 08:47 PM
We are all One
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 22261186
Turkey
08/19/2012 08:46 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
.


When are you people will finally understand that Iran will NOT be attacked?




















.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 22261186
Turkey
08/19/2012 08:46 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
.


When are you people will finally understand that Iran will NOT be attacked?




















.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 22261186
Turkey
08/19/2012 08:50 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
.






they just can NOT attack IRan.


IF they want to have their signature in ENDING the world as we know it, they MIGHT want to

atttack Iran.


HA!


IT IS not the time yet.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 2320289
United States
08/19/2012 08:50 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
If you really believe that, OP, you have NO IDEA of the power and expertise and weapons systems that are at the command of the US Navy. Iran would be nuked back to the stone age were they to find the balls to attack the 5th Fleet. Their major cities and seat of government would be turned to mostly rubble within a matter of a few hours or less.

Should Iran be stupid enough to launch an attack on Israel, they will be facing the Israeli Defense Force AND the US Military. And what's left of Iran may wind up being an Israeli territory and "protectorate" !! That should make all the Muzzies there happy! If any of them survive.

Of course all of Iran's oil income would be seized to pay for the damages and the costs of their own destruction. That revenue stream over ten or twenty years should be quite substantial.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20006444


whatever
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 10186417
United States
08/19/2012 08:58 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
because Millenium Challenge 2002 says so

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

US for the very first time will be defeated by the Persian army and it would be an embarrassment for the Americans
 Quoting: moeskyhigh


Right, by what? Iran has no advanced weaponry, just rubber boats, Photoshop pictures missiles, bongogle republican guard, old planes, outdated russian technology.

Vs sat guided munition, precision bombs, unmanned aircrafts, deep bunker buster, bomblets etc.
moeskyhigh (OP)

User ID: 21592439
Canada
08/19/2012 08:59 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
I am going to spell this out in truthfulness... I hope this war doesnt happen, but I think it will, and this is what will happen.

Iran could potentially defeat the US Navy if all of our firepower were huddled close in the Straight... but USA will not do that because we have far superior long-range weapons. Our ships will start an attack from outside the reach of Iran's weapons, and destroy most of their capabilities to fight back by taking out communications, and anti-air capabilities.

I suspect that most of the support flagships of the Iranian Navy will be unk by US Air Force and Navy fighters so that our Carriers dont have to be within the range of a 'guerilla type' swarm attack such as the 2002 Millenium Challenge.

Once the Iranian Navy threat is decimated, our carrier groups will be able to move in closer to Iran's shores to make the bombing campaign more efficient.

Hopefully they will confirm destruction of nuclear capabilities and end the war. I see no reason why we should have to put boots on the ground.

I feel sorry for the Persian Iranian people because they are about to be run-over by the murderous Sunni Arabs. I hope that America has some kind of plan to relocate the Shias and Allawites (sorry for misspelling) to somewhere safe before the Muslim Brotherhood clams their new territory.

In the end, all of this muslim brotherhood shit is going to destroy Israel anyway... I hate to see Americans supportting a war effort that cannot be won, against a people who are no threat to us. It disgusts me.
 Quoting: chris999


okay now allow me to elaborate on how Iran can defend themselves

about war with Iran scenerio
don't be too naive..read this page and do your research then come talk to me with a legitimate counter argument..if i see a message of you calling names then i would know that you have no idea what you're talking about.

If attack on Iran happens anyway, two scenarios possible:

1. Air-strikes only. Since nuclear and other critical facilities are dispersed and most are deep underground and well protected, air-strikes would have a limited impact. Iran might even not retaliate on a large scale if damage is minimal, to avoid confrontation growing to a full-scale war.


Israel is the main force behind possible attack on Iran, and their reasoning is based on a lie - Iran president never said "we will wipe Israel off the map", its a fake mistranslation, and yet its the cornerstone of Israel's foreign politics and a possible war against Iran! Iran president simply said: "The Zionist regime will pass away, just as Soviet regime fell in Russia." In the same speech further: "The human and civil rights of all people, including jewish people, Christians and Muslims must be respected."

Air-strikes most definitely wouldnt change Iran's nuclear (peaceful or otherwise) ambitions, if anything - they might push Iran to withdraw from NPT, kick out IAEA from the country, and start making ultimate deterrence - nuclear bombs.

2. A full-scale war. Its the only hypothetical solution to take from Iran nuclear ambitions - by changing (i.e. killing) current government and pretty much everyone who supports it, and placing puppet regime instead.

Attack should happen in all fronts - air, navy, ground and info war.

* Navy.

US have the strongest NAVY in the World, however its vulnerable to swarm attack, as shown in Millennium Challenge 2002, when most of US Navy was destroyed in an exercise: Millennium Challenge 2002 - [link to en.wikipedia.org]

US is trying to address swarm issue with Mk 38 Mod 2 machine gun (reliable up to 2,5 km, when target moves as predicted) and helicopters Hellfire (in the future might include Rayguns, etc). let's not forget the sunburn anti-ship missiles Iran poses that US has no air defense capability to hit them. anyways..

Several issues with this defense - speedboats dont even have to come close, Iran's anti-ship missiles have 15-300 km range, up to 2000 km if we include Sejjil and other ballistic missiles (Iran recently successfully tested 2 such missiles hitting targets at 1900+km range in Indian ocean). Hit and run swarm strategy by hundreds of missile boats should still be very effective, plus specifically against US helicopters Iran developed new missiles as well.

US Navy defense against missiles:

Remember how a single 1st generation Iranian Kowsar did major damage and sunk the best Israel 5-Class corvette? Israel said their defense was down, and regardless if we believe them or not, consider the fact Iran has thousands of 3rd generation Kowsar's, and its the weakest anti-ship missile in Iran disposal!

US would use their most advanced AEGIS ABM with SM-3, in controlled tests it has success rate 80+% (1-2 missiles at the same time). If there are more missiles - intercept accuracy significantly drops, and after ~13 tries to intercept missiles, ships run out of initial battery and becomes exposed.

US Naval War college estimates:

"The U.S. Navy's Targeting Problem. The Navy would almost certainly fire two ABMs (AEGIS SM-3) against each of the incoming ASBMs. Doing so would of course increase the probability of a successful intercept. However, with only twenty-four or twenty-five ABMs aboard, each Aegis ship escorting a carrier would at that rate be able to engage at most thirteen ASBMs."

"the fact that many kinds of penetration aids are quite cheap relative to ABMs is one reason why the United States cannot "buy its way out" of this problem."

Iran strategy:

simultaneous attack of wide range missiles, speedboats, subs, etc. 30-50 various missiles per warship plus decoys ("Persian Gulf", Ghader, Qiam, Kowsar, Nasr, Noor, Raad, Fajre Darya, underwater Supercavitation torpedo Hoot, various other torpedoes,Sunburn, mines, etc), and no US warship can survive that, maybe except aircraft carriers. For those Iran might use several more ballistic missiles (or not - if intention isnt to sink but to disable them - who needs sunken carriers with nuclear reactors in their backyard waters? ;-)

Bottom line: US Navy will keep out of Persian Gulf if the war starts, unless they want to provide high-tech houses for the local coral reef ;-) Most likely Navy would stay at reasonably safe 2000+ km distance. This would limit their contribution, but its better than a sunken fleet. Which means that Iran is very capable of closing the straight of Hormuz and it will initiate WW3.

* Airforce.

Iran most definitely is inferior head-to-head in air combat. Iran's SAM, AAA, etc. are quite decent, and should provide quite a challenge for US/NATO forces. Also Iran instead of few large stationary radar systems, focuses on mobile radars, including stealth detecting, passive/untraceable ones. Thus US airforce cant destroy them all, as it usually does as soon as they attack some country.

"Israel itself predicts that a major air assault to knock out Iran's nuclear facilities would involve the loss of fully one-third of the planes, which would be knocked out by missiles and Russian-provided air defense systems." And thats one wave, if each wave loses 1/3 of the planes, very soon Israel wouldnt have any airforce at all ;-)

As mentioned above, US Navy would most likely stay 2000+ km away, and as admitted by US:

"U.S. Air Force can conduct air operations most efficiently from bases no more than five hundred miles away from the target."

US bases in near-by countries are all within reach of Iran's ballistic missiles. In the first few days of the war, those bases should be either destroyed, or at least unusable for aircrafts.

Bottom line: for airstrikes USAF main weapon would be long range bombers and cruise missiles, some of them would be intercepted. Considering US limited airstrikes and well protected underground critical facilities, damage against those would be limited, however more extensive against civilian objects. US would try to destroy power lines, water supplies, etc.

* Ground forces.

If US/NATO wants to win over Iran, ground forces are essential. However that's were the most casualties would come from, for both sides. Iran has well trained and armed 1,2 million soldiers (regular army and reserve), plus 12 mln. trained volunteer forces. They know terrain inside-out, they have extensively prepared for both direct and guerrilla warfare.

Some people tend to dismiss Iran's army, but consider Iranians combat spirit and motivation - Iraq started war against newborn revolutionary regime with no real army (Shah's army was disbanded), Husein got help from US and Russia, and still couldnt win, even tried WMD, Iranians just weren't afraid to sacrifice themselves for the country.

We saw another recent example in Hezbollah-Israel war. Israel has one of the best militaries in the World, while Lebanon is the next door weak neighbor, and yet Israel couldnt win against 1000 Hezbollah members plus 6000+ Hezbollah volunteers, trained by Iranians. Consider Iran has over million of such trained soldiers, and over 12 million volunteers. Iran's terrain is better suited for guerrilla warfare, and they are better and more extensively armed than Hezbollah. Need I say more? NATO simply cant win, all they could do is to temporarily occupy parts of Iran, but due to heavy loses and high cost, its only a matter of time till NATO retreats. Iranians are prepared to die in millions for the country, how about NATO forces?..

* Information war

West would win, no question about it. Most people in the West would believe its all "evil" Iran's fault, how they're making nuclear bombs to attack poor West and Israel (with no evidence, but who cares - worked with Sadam, isnt?).

War stages:

some argue if Iran would be beaten in the initial direct battle and occupation starts, Iran lost the war. In reality after attackers would break through the defenses, war doesnt end, it begins for Iranians. Why? No country in the Middle East could beat US/NATO head on, so initial defenses are meant for deterrence and inflicting some damage, and despite patriotic Iran claims how they would repel the attack, they cant, and they know it better than us.

If you follow Iran's military industry, their goal isnt static, concentrated military, but extremely mobile, dispersed and hidden weaponry, with a massive preparations of underground/cave facilities for guerrilla war. Even their new pride - ballistic Sejjil-2 can be hidden and used from anywhere.

If you think NATO has issues with Afghanistan (Taliban more or less controls 54-72% of the country, after a decade of war with NATO!). Thats only 35.000 people with a locals support, with ancient weapons. Now consider Iranians would fight in millions, with quite advanced weapons and very extensive stockpile, probably with factories deep in the mountains to make more weapons in case of war. If Afghanistan cost NATO 4+ trillions, how much Iran would cost? How many loses NATO could sustain? In my opinion, US and EU would bankrupt faster than win over Iran, or even more likely - there wont be any war in the first place.

That was about Iran, how about other unavoidable outcomes of the war:

1. Israel would not only receive a lot of high-impact precise ballistic missiles from Iran (2000, or so they claimed a year ago), but also Hezbollah and Hamas would do all they can, it wont be pretty. Its possible such war would actually end up with Palestinians regaining lost territories, and Israel would be lucky to keep '67 borders.

2. Severely disrupted oil and gas flow. ~25% of World supply would be cut off during the war. Prices would skyrocket, a lot of countries economies would suffer, some are on the verge of bankruptcy already, war wont help them by any means.

3. Ultimate winners of such war - China and Russia. While US, Israel and EU influence in the region would significantly decrease, especially if/when they lose the war.
 Quoting: moeskyhigh


forgot to mention that Iran will fire their bellistic missiles at the oil facilities in the Arab peninsula then occupy their land in Kuwait, Saudi, UAE, Iraq, n etc thus bringing back their old Persian Map...
We are all One
chris999

User ID: 19470458
United States
08/19/2012 09:00 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
I am going to spell this out in truthfulness... I hope this war doesnt happen, but I think it will, and this is what will happen.

Iran could potentially defeat the US Navy if all of our firepower were huddled close in the Straight... but USA will not do that because we have far superior long-range weapons. Our ships will start an attack from outside the reach of Iran's weapons, and destroy most of their capabilities to fight back by taking out communications, and anti-air capabilities.

I suspect that most of the support flagships of the Iranian Navy will be unk by US Air Force and Navy fighters so that our Carriers dont have to be within the range of a 'guerilla type' swarm attack such as the 2002 Millenium Challenge.

Once the Iranian Navy threat is decimated, our carrier groups will be able to move in closer to Iran's shores to make the bombing campaign more efficient.

Hopefully they will confirm destruction of nuclear capabilities and end the war. I see no reason why we should have to put boots on the ground.

I feel sorry for the Persian Iranian people because they are about to be run-over by the murderous Sunni Arabs. I hope that America has some kind of plan to relocate the Shias and Allawites (sorry for misspelling) to somewhere safe before the Muslim Brotherhood clams their new territory.

In the end, all of this muslim brotherhood shit is going to destroy Israel anyway... I hate to see Americans supportting a war effort that cannot be won, against a people who are no threat to us. It disgusts me.
 Quoting: chris999


okay now allow me to elaborate on how Iran can defend themselves

about war with Iran scenerio
don't be too naive..read this page and do your research then come talk to me with a legitimate counter argument..if i see a message of you calling names then i would know that you have no idea what you're talking about.

If attack on Iran happens anyway, two scenarios possible:

1. Air-strikes only. Since nuclear and other critical facilities are dispersed and most are deep underground and well protected, air-strikes would have a limited impact. Iran might even not retaliate on a large scale if damage is minimal, to avoid confrontation growing to a full-scale war.


Israel is the main force behind possible attack on Iran, and their reasoning is based on a lie - Iran president never said "we will wipe Israel off the map", its a fake mistranslation, and yet its the cornerstone of Israel's foreign politics and a possible war against Iran! Iran president simply said: "The Zionist regime will pass away, just as Soviet regime fell in Russia." In the same speech further: "The human and civil rights of all people, including jewish people, Christians and Muslims must be respected."

Air-strikes most definitely wouldnt change Iran's nuclear (peaceful or otherwise) ambitions, if anything - they might push Iran to withdraw from NPT, kick out IAEA from the country, and start making ultimate deterrence - nuclear bombs.

2. A full-scale war. Its the only hypothetical solution to take from Iran nuclear ambitions - by changing (i.e. killing) current government and pretty much everyone who supports it, and placing puppet regime instead.

Attack should happen in all fronts - air, navy, ground and info war.

* Navy.

US have the strongest NAVY in the World, however its vulnerable to swarm attack, as shown in Millennium Challenge 2002, when most of US Navy was destroyed in an exercise: Millennium Challenge 2002 - [link to en.wikipedia.org]

US is trying to address swarm issue with Mk 38 Mod 2 machine gun (reliable up to 2,5 km, when target moves as predicted) and helicopters Hellfire (in the future might include Rayguns, etc). let's not forget the sunburn anti-ship missiles Iran poses that US has no air defense capability to hit them. anyways..

Several issues with this defense - speedboats dont even have to come close, Iran's anti-ship missiles have 15-300 km range, up to 2000 km if we include Sejjil and other ballistic missiles (Iran recently successfully tested 2 such missiles hitting targets at 1900+km range in Indian ocean). Hit and run swarm strategy by hundreds of missile boats should still be very effective, plus specifically against US helicopters Iran developed new missiles as well.

US Navy defense against missiles:

Remember how a single 1st generation Iranian Kowsar did major damage and sunk the best Israel 5-Class corvette? Israel said their defense was down, and regardless if we believe them or not, consider the fact Iran has thousands of 3rd generation Kowsar's, and its the weakest anti-ship missile in Iran disposal!

US would use their most advanced AEGIS ABM with SM-3, in controlled tests it has success rate 80+% (1-2 missiles at the same time). If there are more missiles - intercept accuracy significantly drops, and after ~13 tries to intercept missiles, ships run out of initial battery and becomes exposed.

US Naval War college estimates:

"The U.S. Navy's Targeting Problem. The Navy would almost certainly fire two ABMs (AEGIS SM-3) against each of the incoming ASBMs. Doing so would of course increase the probability of a successful intercept. However, with only twenty-four or twenty-five ABMs aboard, each Aegis ship escorting a carrier would at that rate be able to engage at most thirteen ASBMs."

"the fact that many kinds of penetration aids are quite cheap relative to ABMs is one reason why the United States cannot "buy its way out" of this problem."

Iran strategy:

simultaneous attack of wide range missiles, speedboats, subs, etc. 30-50 various missiles per warship plus decoys ("Persian Gulf", Ghader, Qiam, Kowsar, Nasr, Noor, Raad, Fajre Darya, underwater Supercavitation torpedo Hoot, various other torpedoes,Sunburn, mines, etc), and no US warship can survive that, maybe except aircraft carriers. For those Iran might use several more ballistic missiles (or not - if intention isnt to sink but to disable them - who needs sunken carriers with nuclear reactors in their backyard waters? ;-)

Bottom line: US Navy will keep out of Persian Gulf if the war starts, unless they want to provide high-tech houses for the local coral reef ;-) Most likely Navy would stay at reasonably safe 2000+ km distance. This would limit their contribution, but its better than a sunken fleet. Which means that Iran is very capable of closing the straight of Hormuz and it will initiate WW3.

* Airforce.

Iran most definitely is inferior head-to-head in air combat. Iran's SAM, AAA, etc. are quite decent, and should provide quite a challenge for US/NATO forces. Also Iran instead of few large stationary radar systems, focuses on mobile radars, including stealth detecting, passive/untraceable ones. Thus US airforce cant destroy them all, as it usually does as soon as they attack some country.

"Israel itself predicts that a major air assault to knock out Iran's nuclear facilities would involve the loss of fully one-third of the planes, which would be knocked out by missiles and Russian-provided air defense systems." And thats one wave, if each wave loses 1/3 of the planes, very soon Israel wouldnt have any airforce at all ;-)

As mentioned above, US Navy would most likely stay 2000+ km away, and as admitted by US:

"U.S. Air Force can conduct air operations most efficiently from bases no more than five hundred miles away from the target."

US bases in near-by countries are all within reach of Iran's ballistic missiles. In the first few days of the war, those bases should be either destroyed, or at least unusable for aircrafts.

Bottom line: for airstrikes USAF main weapon would be long range bombers and cruise missiles, some of them would be intercepted. Considering US limited airstrikes and well protected underground critical facilities, damage against those would be limited, however more extensive against civilian objects. US would try to destroy power lines, water supplies, etc.

* Ground forces.

If US/NATO wants to win over Iran, ground forces are essential. However that's were the most casualties would come from, for both sides. Iran has well trained and armed 1,2 million soldiers (regular army and reserve), plus 12 mln. trained volunteer forces. They know terrain inside-out, they have extensively prepared for both direct and guerrilla warfare.

Some people tend to dismiss Iran's army, but consider Iranians combat spirit and motivation - Iraq started war against newborn revolutionary regime with no real army (Shah's army was disbanded), Husein got help from US and Russia, and still couldnt win, even tried WMD, Iranians just weren't afraid to sacrifice themselves for the country.

We saw another recent example in Hezbollah-Israel war. Israel has one of the best militaries in the World, while Lebanon is the next door weak neighbor, and yet Israel couldnt win against 1000 Hezbollah members plus 6000+ Hezbollah volunteers, trained by Iranians. Consider Iran has over million of such trained soldiers, and over 12 million volunteers. Iran's terrain is better suited for guerrilla warfare, and they are better and more extensively armed than Hezbollah. Need I say more? NATO simply cant win, all they could do is to temporarily occupy parts of Iran, but due to heavy loses and high cost, its only a matter of time till NATO retreats. Iranians are prepared to die in millions for the country, how about NATO forces?..

* Information war

West would win, no question about it. Most people in the West would believe its all "evil" Iran's fault, how they're making nuclear bombs to attack poor West and Israel (with no evidence, but who cares - worked with Sadam, isnt?).

War stages:

some argue if Iran would be beaten in the initial direct battle and occupation starts, Iran lost the war. In reality after attackers would break through the defenses, war doesnt end, it begins for Iranians. Why? No country in the Middle East could beat US/NATO head on, so initial defenses are meant for deterrence and inflicting some damage, and despite patriotic Iran claims how they would repel the attack, they cant, and they know it better than us.

If you follow Iran's military industry, their goal isnt static, concentrated military, but extremely mobile, dispersed and hidden weaponry, with a massive preparations of underground/cave facilities for guerrilla war. Even their new pride - ballistic Sejjil-2 can be hidden and used from anywhere.

If you think NATO has issues with Afghanistan (Taliban more or less controls 54-72% of the country, after a decade of war with NATO!). Thats only 35.000 people with a locals support, with ancient weapons. Now consider Iranians would fight in millions, with quite advanced weapons and very extensive stockpile, probably with factories deep in the mountains to make more weapons in case of war. If Afghanistan cost NATO 4+ trillions, how much Iran would cost? How many loses NATO could sustain? In my opinion, US and EU would bankrupt faster than win over Iran, or even more likely - there wont be any war in the first place.

That was about Iran, how about other unavoidable outcomes of the war:

1. Israel would not only receive a lot of high-impact precise ballistic missiles from Iran (2000, or so they claimed a year ago), but also Hezbollah and Hamas would do all they can, it wont be pretty. Its possible such war would actually end up with Palestinians regaining lost territories, and Israel would be lucky to keep '67 borders.

2. Severely disrupted oil and gas flow. ~25% of World supply would be cut off during the war. Prices would skyrocket, a lot of countries economies would suffer, some are on the verge of bankruptcy already, war wont help them by any means.

3. Ultimate winners of such war - China and Russia. While US, Israel and EU influence in the region would significantly decrease, especially if/when they lose the war.
 Quoting: moeskyhigh


Look, I am familiar with the Millennium 2002 Challenge.

A Retired Marine General payed a huge wargame against the Brunt of US Naval forces, and beat them up good using guerilla warfare such as turning off electrical and RADAR systems so that the sophisticated foe cannot see a co-ordinated swarm attack.

The US Navy learned a lesson that day... That they are not invincible, and that we have to rely more on our Air Force to provide support and cover for other forces, and to bomb communications and surface to air defense before we can bring in our expensive equipment.

We have Air Force bases all over the world hat are going to pound everything that Iran has got... precision style.

I am not a war monger. I hope this war doesnt happen. But, if it does, America (and maybe some allies) will open up a can of you-know-what.

If I had any choice in the matter. American forces would pull back, and make sure that no-one else jumps in... and let Israel and Iran go at it by themselves... America doesnt need to be involved in this bullshit.
I dont mean everything I say to be literal. I just like to throw around ideas, and play devil's advocate.

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.

-Galileo Galilei
moeskyhigh (OP)

User ID: 21592439
Canada
08/19/2012 09:01 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
because Millenium Challenge 2002 says so

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

US for the very first time will be defeated by the Persian army and it would be an embarrassment for the Americans
 Quoting: moeskyhigh


Right, by what? Iran has no advanced weaponry, just rubber boats, Photoshop pictures missiles, bongogle republican guard, old planes, outdated russian technology.

Vs sat guided munition, precision bombs, unmanned aircrafts, deep bunker buster, bomblets etc.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10186417


are you retarded? don't you see their videos of their own missiles?

omg i have a very bad feeling about this...you ppl are so brainwashed
We are all One

News








We're dropping truth bombs like it's the end of days!