Godlike Productions - Conspiracy Forum
Users Online Now: 1,401 (Who's On?)Visitors Today: 782,934
Pageviews Today: 971,229Threads Today: 171Posts Today: 2,832
06:49 AM


Rate this Thread

Absolute BS Crap Reasonable Nice Amazing
 

I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet

 
moeskyhigh (OP)

User ID: 21592439
Canada
08/19/2012 09:05 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
I am going to spell this out in truthfulness... I hope this war doesnt happen, but I think it will, and this is what will happen.

Iran could potentially defeat the US Navy if all of our firepower were huddled close in the Straight... but USA will not do that because we have far superior long-range weapons. Our ships will start an attack from outside the reach of Iran's weapons, and destroy most of their capabilities to fight back by taking out communications, and anti-air capabilities.

I suspect that most of the support flagships of the Iranian Navy will be unk by US Air Force and Navy fighters so that our Carriers dont have to be within the range of a 'guerilla type' swarm attack such as the 2002 Millenium Challenge.

Once the Iranian Navy threat is decimated, our carrier groups will be able to move in closer to Iran's shores to make the bombing campaign more efficient.

Hopefully they will confirm destruction of nuclear capabilities and end the war. I see no reason why we should have to put boots on the ground.

I feel sorry for the Persian Iranian people because they are about to be run-over by the murderous Sunni Arabs. I hope that America has some kind of plan to relocate the Shias and Allawites (sorry for misspelling) to somewhere safe before the Muslim Brotherhood clams their new territory.

In the end, all of this muslim brotherhood shit is going to destroy Israel anyway... I hate to see Americans supportting a war effort that cannot be won, against a people who are no threat to us. It disgusts me.
 Quoting: chris999


okay now allow me to elaborate on how Iran can defend themselves

about war with Iran scenerio
don't be too naive..read this page and do your research then come talk to me with a legitimate counter argument..if i see a message of you calling names then i would know that you have no idea what you're talking about.

If attack on Iran happens anyway, two scenarios possible:

1. Air-strikes only. Since nuclear and other critical facilities are dispersed and most are deep underground and well protected, air-strikes would have a limited impact. Iran might even not retaliate on a large scale if damage is minimal, to avoid confrontation growing to a full-scale war.


Israel is the main force behind possible attack on Iran, and their reasoning is based on a lie - Iran president never said "we will wipe Israel off the map", its a fake mistranslation, and yet its the cornerstone of Israel's foreign politics and a possible war against Iran! Iran president simply said: "The Zionist regime will pass away, just as Soviet regime fell in Russia." In the same speech further: "The human and civil rights of all people, including jewish people, Christians and Muslims must be respected."

Air-strikes most definitely wouldnt change Iran's nuclear (peaceful or otherwise) ambitions, if anything - they might push Iran to withdraw from NPT, kick out IAEA from the country, and start making ultimate deterrence - nuclear bombs.

2. A full-scale war. Its the only hypothetical solution to take from Iran nuclear ambitions - by changing (i.e. killing) current government and pretty much everyone who supports it, and placing puppet regime instead.

Attack should happen in all fronts - air, navy, ground and info war.

* Navy.

US have the strongest NAVY in the World, however its vulnerable to swarm attack, as shown in Millennium Challenge 2002, when most of US Navy was destroyed in an exercise: Millennium Challenge 2002 - [link to en.wikipedia.org]

US is trying to address swarm issue with Mk 38 Mod 2 machine gun (reliable up to 2,5 km, when target moves as predicted) and helicopters Hellfire (in the future might include Rayguns, etc). let's not forget the sunburn anti-ship missiles Iran poses that US has no air defense capability to hit them. anyways..

Several issues with this defense - speedboats dont even have to come close, Iran's anti-ship missiles have 15-300 km range, up to 2000 km if we include Sejjil and other ballistic missiles (Iran recently successfully tested 2 such missiles hitting targets at 1900+km range in Indian ocean). Hit and run swarm strategy by hundreds of missile boats should still be very effective, plus specifically against US helicopters Iran developed new missiles as well.

US Navy defense against missiles:

Remember how a single 1st generation Iranian Kowsar did major damage and sunk the best Israel 5-Class corvette? Israel said their defense was down, and regardless if we believe them or not, consider the fact Iran has thousands of 3rd generation Kowsar's, and its the weakest anti-ship missile in Iran disposal!

US would use their most advanced AEGIS ABM with SM-3, in controlled tests it has success rate 80+% (1-2 missiles at the same time). If there are more missiles - intercept accuracy significantly drops, and after ~13 tries to intercept missiles, ships run out of initial battery and becomes exposed.

US Naval War college estimates:

"The U.S. Navy's Targeting Problem. The Navy would almost certainly fire two ABMs (AEGIS SM-3) against each of the incoming ASBMs. Doing so would of course increase the probability of a successful intercept. However, with only twenty-four or twenty-five ABMs aboard, each Aegis ship escorting a carrier would at that rate be able to engage at most thirteen ASBMs."

"the fact that many kinds of penetration aids are quite cheap relative to ABMs is one reason why the United States cannot "buy its way out" of this problem."

Iran strategy:

simultaneous attack of wide range missiles, speedboats, subs, etc. 30-50 various missiles per warship plus decoys ("Persian Gulf", Ghader, Qiam, Kowsar, Nasr, Noor, Raad, Fajre Darya, underwater Supercavitation torpedo Hoot, various other torpedoes,Sunburn, mines, etc), and no US warship can survive that, maybe except aircraft carriers. For those Iran might use several more ballistic missiles (or not - if intention isnt to sink but to disable them - who needs sunken carriers with nuclear reactors in their backyard waters? ;-)

Bottom line: US Navy will keep out of Persian Gulf if the war starts, unless they want to provide high-tech houses for the local coral reef ;-) Most likely Navy would stay at reasonably safe 2000+ km distance. This would limit their contribution, but its better than a sunken fleet. Which means that Iran is very capable of closing the straight of Hormuz and it will initiate WW3.

* Airforce.

Iran most definitely is inferior head-to-head in air combat. Iran's SAM, AAA, etc. are quite decent, and should provide quite a challenge for US/NATO forces. Also Iran instead of few large stationary radar systems, focuses on mobile radars, including stealth detecting, passive/untraceable ones. Thus US airforce cant destroy them all, as it usually does as soon as they attack some country.

"Israel itself predicts that a major air assault to knock out Iran's nuclear facilities would involve the loss of fully one-third of the planes, which would be knocked out by missiles and Russian-provided air defense systems." And thats one wave, if each wave loses 1/3 of the planes, very soon Israel wouldnt have any airforce at all ;-)

As mentioned above, US Navy would most likely stay 2000+ km away, and as admitted by US:

"U.S. Air Force can conduct air operations most efficiently from bases no more than five hundred miles away from the target."

US bases in near-by countries are all within reach of Iran's ballistic missiles. In the first few days of the war, those bases should be either destroyed, or at least unusable for aircrafts.

Bottom line: for airstrikes USAF main weapon would be long range bombers and cruise missiles, some of them would be intercepted. Considering US limited airstrikes and well protected underground critical facilities, damage against those would be limited, however more extensive against civilian objects. US would try to destroy power lines, water supplies, etc.

* Ground forces.

If US/NATO wants to win over Iran, ground forces are essential. However that's were the most casualties would come from, for both sides. Iran has well trained and armed 1,2 million soldiers (regular army and reserve), plus 12 mln. trained volunteer forces. They know terrain inside-out, they have extensively prepared for both direct and guerrilla warfare.

Some people tend to dismiss Iran's army, but consider Iranians combat spirit and motivation - Iraq started war against newborn revolutionary regime with no real army (Shah's army was disbanded), Husein got help from US and Russia, and still couldnt win, even tried WMD, Iranians just weren't afraid to sacrifice themselves for the country.

We saw another recent example in Hezbollah-Israel war. Israel has one of the best militaries in the World, while Lebanon is the next door weak neighbor, and yet Israel couldnt win against 1000 Hezbollah members plus 6000+ Hezbollah volunteers, trained by Iranians. Consider Iran has over million of such trained soldiers, and over 12 million volunteers. Iran's terrain is better suited for guerrilla warfare, and they are better and more extensively armed than Hezbollah. Need I say more? NATO simply cant win, all they could do is to temporarily occupy parts of Iran, but due to heavy loses and high cost, its only a matter of time till NATO retreats. Iranians are prepared to die in millions for the country, how about NATO forces?..

* Information war

West would win, no question about it. Most people in the West would believe its all "evil" Iran's fault, how they're making nuclear bombs to attack poor West and Israel (with no evidence, but who cares - worked with Sadam, isnt?).

War stages:

some argue if Iran would be beaten in the initial direct battle and occupation starts, Iran lost the war. In reality after attackers would break through the defenses, war doesnt end, it begins for Iranians. Why? No country in the Middle East could beat US/NATO head on, so initial defenses are meant for deterrence and inflicting some damage, and despite patriotic Iran claims how they would repel the attack, they cant, and they know it better than us.

If you follow Iran's military industry, their goal isnt static, concentrated military, but extremely mobile, dispersed and hidden weaponry, with a massive preparations of underground/cave facilities for guerrilla war. Even their new pride - ballistic Sejjil-2 can be hidden and used from anywhere.

If you think NATO has issues with Afghanistan (Taliban more or less controls 54-72% of the country, after a decade of war with NATO!). Thats only 35.000 people with a locals support, with ancient weapons. Now consider Iranians would fight in millions, with quite advanced weapons and very extensive stockpile, probably with factories deep in the mountains to make more weapons in case of war. If Afghanistan cost NATO 4+ trillions, how much Iran would cost? How many loses NATO could sustain? In my opinion, US and EU would bankrupt faster than win over Iran, or even more likely - there wont be any war in the first place.

That was about Iran, how about other unavoidable outcomes of the war:

1. Israel would not only receive a lot of high-impact precise ballistic missiles from Iran (2000, or so they claimed a year ago), but also Hezbollah and Hamas would do all they can, it wont be pretty. Its possible such war would actually end up with Palestinians regaining lost territories, and Israel would be lucky to keep '67 borders.

2. Severely disrupted oil and gas flow. ~25% of World supply would be cut off during the war. Prices would skyrocket, a lot of countries economies would suffer, some are on the verge of bankruptcy already, war wont help them by any means.

3. Ultimate winners of such war - China and Russia. While US, Israel and EU influence in the region would significantly decrease, especially if/when they lose the war.
 Quoting: moeskyhigh


Look, I am familiar with the Millennium 2002 Challenge.

A Retired Marine General payed a huge wargame against the Brunt of US Naval forces, and beat them up good using guerilla warfare such as turning off electrical and RADAR systems so that the sophisticated foe cannot see a co-ordinated swarm attack.

The US Navy learned a lesson that day... That they are not invincible, and that we have to rely more on our Air Force to provide support and cover for other forces, and to bomb communications and surface to air defense before we can bring in our expensive equipment.

We have Air Force bases all over the world hat are going to pound everything that Iran has got... precision style.

I am not a war monger. I hope this war doesnt happen. But, if it does, America (and maybe some allies) will open up a can of you-know-what.

If I had any choice in the matter. American forces would pull back, and make sure that no-one else jumps in... and let Israel and Iran go at it by themselves... America doesnt need to be involved in this bullshit.
 Quoting: chris999

are you familiar with the anti-air defense systems that Iran poses? America has never invaded till this date a country that had air defence missile capabilities...nodda

im sure their aircrafts are made for wars such as these, but believe me, Russian anti-air missiles are no joke, which iran has alot of them...most of them are domestically modified even..

I am against a war too, but i have to let the warmongers know on this forum that their military will suffer huge if they ever go to war with Iran.
We are all One
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 22263554
United States
08/19/2012 09:10 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
Our Navy is simply unstoppable. Our brave men and women are heroes.

We are a global force for good.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1637914


You just made me throw up. Global force for good... fuck me.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 18391192
Norway
08/19/2012 09:17 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet

 Quoting: CE1


cruise
chris999

User ID: 19470458
United States
08/19/2012 09:21 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet

are you familiar with the anti-air defense systems that Iran poses? America has never invaded till this date a country that had air defence missile capabilities...nodda

im sure their aircrafts are made for wars such as these, but believe me, Russian anti-air missiles are no joke, which iran has alot of them...most of them are domestically modified even..

I am against a war too, but i have to let the warmongers know on this forum that their military will suffer huge if they ever go to war with Iran.




We went up against a pretty sophisticated anti-air capabilities in the Bosnian conflict 15 or so years ago. They shot down one of our most advanced bombers at that time, a B2 stealth bomber that cost 2 Billion dollars.

We still took care of it though. At the time, their air defenses were as good as some of the NATO countries.

That was 15 years ago, I am sure we have shit now that no-one has seen before waiting for the right time.

Also, we dont even have to use the USAF at first, as we can just take out anti-air capabilities from almost anywhere in the world with cruise missiles fired from ships and submarines.

And this will all take place after a crippling internet attack that will take out a lot of critical infrastructure in Iran as well.



I hope I am not coming off as an arrogant Ameri-tard, because I dont want this war to happen. I'm ust saying that the US will win this war.

Last Edited by chris999 on 08/19/2012 09:23 PM
I dont mean everything I say to be literal. I just like to throw around ideas, and play devil's advocate.

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.

-Galileo Galilei
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 18391192
Norway
08/19/2012 09:34 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
We went up against a pretty sophisticated anti-air capabilities in the Bosnian conflict 15 or so years ago. They shot down one of our most advanced bombers at that time, a B2 stealth bomber that cost 2 Billion dollars.
 Quoting: chris999


No not B2, a F-117 Nighthawk. Big difference.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 21549006
Puerto Rico
08/19/2012 09:52 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
 Quoting: chris999

are you familiar with the anti-air defense systems that Iran poses? America has never invaded till this date a country that had air defence missile capabilities...nodda

im sure their aircrafts are made for wars such as these, but believe me, Russian anti-air missiles are no joke, which iran has alot of them...most of them are domestically modified even..

I am against a war too, but i have to let the warmongers know on this forum that their military will suffer huge if they ever go to war with Iran.




We went up against a pretty sophisticated anti-air capabilities in the Bosnian conflict 15 or so years ago. They shot down one of our most advanced bombers at that time, a B2 stealth bomber that cost 2 Billion dollars.

We still took care of it though. At the time, their air defenses were as good as some of the NATO countries.

That was 15 years ago, I am sure we have shit now that no-one has seen before waiting for the right time.

Also, we dont even have to use the USAF at first, as we can just take out anti-air capabilities from almost anywhere in the world with cruise missiles fired from ships and submarines.

And this will all take place after a crippling internet attack that will take out a lot of critical infrastructure in Iran as well.



I hope I am not coming off as an arrogant Ameri-tard, because I dont want this war to happen. I'm ust saying that the US will win this war.


The first thing that will hit Iran will be cruise missles fired from nuclear submarines far away from the coast...These will probably have some EMP capabilities so Iran will be in deep shit from the start...I'm sure they'll get off some missles and that Hezbollah and Syria will all strike Israel...The problem will come if Iran does not surrender...This cannot be an all out ground war, the USA cannot win that...This has to be quick and easy and I don't think it will be...I think it's going to escalate...
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 22194559
United States
08/19/2012 09:58 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
depends what you mean by "beat", OP. they'd no doubt cause quite a bit of damage. they'd no doubt score a sort of propaganda victory. but just the sheer size of the forces the usa can muster means eventual defeat.
Nam Marine
User ID: 1170522
United States
08/19/2012 10:31 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
because Millenium Challenge 2002 says so

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

US for the very first time will be defeated by the Persian army and it would be an embarrassment for the Americans
 Quoting: moeskyhigh


bsmeter2bsmeter2bsmeter2
CrazyBud

User ID: 20941149
United States
08/19/2012 10:35 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
I am going to spell this out in truthfulness... I hope this war doesnt happen, but I think it will, and this is what will happen.

Iran could potentially defeat the US Navy if all of our firepower were huddled close in the Straight... but USA will not do that because we have far superior long-range weapons. Our ships will start an attack from outside the reach of Iran's weapons, and destroy most of their capabilities to fight back by taking out communications, and anti-air capabilities.

I suspect that most of the support flagships of the Iranian Navy will be unk by US Air Force and Navy fighters so that our Carriers dont have to be within the range of a 'guerilla type' swarm attack such as the 2002 Millenium Challenge.

Once the Iranian Navy threat is decimated, our carrier groups will be able to move in closer to Iran's shores to make the bombing campaign more efficient.

Hopefully they will confirm destruction of nuclear capabilities and end the war. I see no reason why we should have to put boots on the ground.

I feel sorry for the Persian Iranian people because they are about to be run-over by the murderous Sunni Arabs. I hope that America has some kind of plan to relocate the Shias and Allawites (sorry for misspelling) to somewhere safe before the Muslim Brotherhood clams their new territory.

In the end, all of this muslim brotherhood shit is going to destroy Israel anyway... I hate to see Americans supportting a war effort that cannot be won, against a people who are no threat to us. It disgusts me.
 Quoting: chris999


okay now allow me to elaborate on how Iran can defend themselves

about war with Iran scenerio
don't be too naive..read this page and do your research then come talk to me with a legitimate counter argument..if i see a message of you calling names then i would know that you have no idea what you're talking about.

If attack on Iran happens anyway, two scenarios possible:

1. Air-strikes only. Since nuclear and other critical facilities are dispersed and most are deep underground and well protected, air-strikes would have a limited impact. Iran might even not retaliate on a large scale if damage is minimal, to avoid confrontation growing to a full-scale war.


Israel is the main force behind possible attack on Iran, and their reasoning is based on a lie - Iran president never said "we will wipe Israel off the map", its a fake mistranslation, and yet its the cornerstone of Israel's foreign politics and a possible war against Iran! Iran president simply said: "The Zionist regime will pass away, just as Soviet regime fell in Russia." In the same speech further: "The human and civil rights of all people, including jewish people, Christians and Muslims must be respected."

Air-strikes most definitely wouldnt change Iran's nuclear (peaceful or otherwise) ambitions, if anything - they might push Iran to withdraw from NPT, kick out IAEA from the country, and start making ultimate deterrence - nuclear bombs.

2. A full-scale war. Its the only hypothetical solution to take from Iran nuclear ambitions - by changing (i.e. killing) current government and pretty much everyone who supports it, and placing puppet regime instead.

Attack should happen in all fronts - air, navy, ground and info war.

* Navy.

US have the strongest NAVY in the World, however its vulnerable to swarm attack, as shown in Millennium Challenge 2002, when most of US Navy was destroyed in an exercise: Millennium Challenge 2002 - [link to en.wikipedia.org]

US is trying to address swarm issue with Mk 38 Mod 2 machine gun (reliable up to 2,5 km, when target moves as predicted) and helicopters Hellfire (in the future might include Rayguns, etc). let's not forget the sunburn anti-ship missiles Iran poses that US has no air defense capability to hit them. anyways..

Several issues with this defense - speedboats dont even have to come close, Iran's anti-ship missiles have 15-300 km range, up to 2000 km if we include Sejjil and other ballistic missiles (Iran recently successfully tested 2 such missiles hitting targets at 1900+km range in Indian ocean). Hit and run swarm strategy by hundreds of missile boats should still be very effective, plus specifically against US helicopters Iran developed new missiles as well.

US Navy defense against missiles:

Remember how a single 1st generation Iranian Kowsar did major damage and sunk the best Israel 5-Class corvette? Israel said their defense was down, and regardless if we believe them or not, consider the fact Iran has thousands of 3rd generation Kowsar's, and its the weakest anti-ship missile in Iran disposal!

US would use their most advanced AEGIS ABM with SM-3, in controlled tests it has success rate 80+% (1-2 missiles at the same time). If there are more missiles - intercept accuracy significantly drops, and after ~13 tries to intercept missiles, ships run out of initial battery and becomes exposed.

US Naval War college estimates:

"The U.S. Navy's Targeting Problem. The Navy would almost certainly fire two ABMs (AEGIS SM-3) against each of the incoming ASBMs. Doing so would of course increase the probability of a successful intercept. However, with only twenty-four or twenty-five ABMs aboard, each Aegis ship escorting a carrier would at that rate be able to engage at most thirteen ASBMs."

"the fact that many kinds of penetration aids are quite cheap relative to ABMs is one reason why the United States cannot "buy its way out" of this problem."

Iran strategy:

simultaneous attack of wide range missiles, speedboats, subs, etc. 30-50 various missiles per warship plus decoys ("Persian Gulf", Ghader, Qiam, Kowsar, Nasr, Noor, Raad, Fajre Darya, underwater Supercavitation torpedo Hoot, various other torpedoes,Sunburn, mines, etc), and no US warship can survive that, maybe except aircraft carriers. For those Iran might use several more ballistic missiles (or not - if intention isnt to sink but to disable them - who needs sunken carriers with nuclear reactors in their backyard waters? ;-)

Bottom line: US Navy will keep out of Persian Gulf if the war starts, unless they want to provide high-tech houses for the local coral reef ;-) Most likely Navy would stay at reasonably safe 2000+ km distance. This would limit their contribution, but its better than a sunken fleet. Which means that Iran is very capable of closing the straight of Hormuz and it will initiate WW3.

* Airforce.

Iran most definitely is inferior head-to-head in air combat. Iran's SAM, AAA, etc. are quite decent, and should provide quite a challenge for US/NATO forces. Also Iran instead of few large stationary radar systems, focuses on mobile radars, including stealth detecting, passive/untraceable ones. Thus US airforce cant destroy them all, as it usually does as soon as they attack some country.

"Israel itself predicts that a major air assault to knock out Iran's nuclear facilities would involve the loss of fully one-third of the planes, which would be knocked out by missiles and Russian-provided air defense systems." And thats one wave, if each wave loses 1/3 of the planes, very soon Israel wouldnt have any airforce at all ;-)

As mentioned above, US Navy would most likely stay 2000+ km away, and as admitted by US:

"U.S. Air Force can conduct air operations most efficiently from bases no more than five hundred miles away from the target."

US bases in near-by countries are all within reach of Iran's ballistic missiles. In the first few days of the war, those bases should be either destroyed, or at least unusable for aircrafts.

Bottom line: for airstrikes USAF main weapon would be long range bombers and cruise missiles, some of them would be intercepted. Considering US limited airstrikes and well protected underground critical facilities, damage against those would be limited, however more extensive against civilian objects. US would try to destroy power lines, water supplies, etc.

* Ground forces.

If US/NATO wants to win over Iran, ground forces are essential. However that's were the most casualties would come from, for both sides. Iran has well trained and armed 1,2 million soldiers (regular army and reserve), plus 12 mln. trained volunteer forces. They know terrain inside-out, they have extensively prepared for both direct and guerrilla warfare.

Some people tend to dismiss Iran's army, but consider Iranians combat spirit and motivation - Iraq started war against newborn revolutionary regime with no real army (Shah's army was disbanded), Husein got help from US and Russia, and still couldnt win, even tried WMD, Iranians just weren't afraid to sacrifice themselves for the country.

We saw another recent example in Hezbollah-Israel war. Israel has one of the best militaries in the World, while Lebanon is the next door weak neighbor, and yet Israel couldnt win against 1000 Hezbollah members plus 6000+ Hezbollah volunteers, trained by Iranians. Consider Iran has over million of such trained soldiers, and over 12 million volunteers. Iran's terrain is better suited for guerrilla warfare, and they are better and more extensively armed than Hezbollah. Need I say more? NATO simply cant win, all they could do is to temporarily occupy parts of Iran, but due to heavy loses and high cost, its only a matter of time till NATO retreats. Iranians are prepared to die in millions for the country, how about NATO forces?..

* Information war

West would win, no question about it. Most people in the West would believe its all "evil" Iran's fault, how they're making nuclear bombs to attack poor West and Israel (with no evidence, but who cares - worked with Sadam, isnt?).

War stages:

some argue if Iran would be beaten in the initial direct battle and occupation starts, Iran lost the war. In reality after attackers would break through the defenses, war doesnt end, it begins for Iranians. Why? No country in the Middle East could beat US/NATO head on, so initial defenses are meant for deterrence and inflicting some damage, and despite patriotic Iran claims how they would repel the attack, they cant, and they know it better than us.

If you follow Iran's military industry, their goal isnt static, concentrated military, but extremely mobile, dispersed and hidden weaponry, with a massive preparations of underground/cave facilities for guerrilla war. Even their new pride - ballistic Sejjil-2 can be hidden and used from anywhere.

If you think NATO has issues with Afghanistan (Taliban more or less controls 54-72% of the country, after a decade of war with NATO!). Thats only 35.000 people with a locals support, with ancient weapons. Now consider Iranians would fight in millions, with quite advanced weapons and very extensive stockpile, probably with factories deep in the mountains to make more weapons in case of war. If Afghanistan cost NATO 4+ trillions, how much Iran would cost? How many loses NATO could sustain? In my opinion, US and EU would bankrupt faster than win over Iran, or even more likely - there wont be any war in the first place.

That was about Iran, how about other unavoidable outcomes of the war:

1. Israel would not only receive a lot of high-impact precise ballistic missiles from Iran (2000, or so they claimed a year ago), but also Hezbollah and Hamas would do all they can, it wont be pretty. Its possible such war would actually end up with Palestinians regaining lost territories, and Israel would be lucky to keep '67 borders.

2. Severely disrupted oil and gas flow. ~25% of World supply would be cut off during the war. Prices would skyrocket, a lot of countries economies would suffer, some are on the verge of bankruptcy already, war wont help them by any means.

3. Ultimate winners of such war - China and Russia. While US, Israel and EU influence in the region would significantly decrease, especially if/when they lose the war.
 Quoting: moeskyhigh


Look, I am familiar with the Millennium 2002 Challenge.

A Retired Marine General payed a huge wargame against the Brunt of US Naval forces, and beat them up good using guerilla warfare such as turning off electrical and RADAR systems so that the sophisticated foe cannot see a co-ordinated swarm attack.

The US Navy learned a lesson that day... That they are not invincible, and that we have to rely more on our Air Force to provide support and cover for other forces, and to bomb communications and surface to air defense before we can bring in our expensive equipment.

We have Air Force bases all over the world hat are going to pound everything that Iran has got... precision style.

I am not a war monger. I hope this war doesnt happen. But, if it does, America (and maybe some allies) will open up a can of you-know-what.

If I had any choice in the matter. American forces would pull back, and make sure that no-one else jumps in... and let Israel and Iran go at it by themselves... America doesnt need to be involved in this bullshit.
 Quoting: chris999

are you familiar with the anti-air defense systems that Iran poses? America has never invaded till this date a country that had air defence missile capabilities...nodda

im sure their aircrafts are made for wars such as these, but believe me, Russian anti-air missiles are no joke, which iran has alot of them...most of them are domestically modified even..

I am against a war too, but i have to let the warmongers know on this forum that their military will suffer huge if they ever go to war with Iran.
 Quoting: moeskyhigh


What do recent intel reports tell about Iran's current capabilities? How long can they logistically sustain a defense in order to counter-attack with mass surprise fires?
How will they defend against a week of SEAD in the deep fight.

Please tell us...
There's plenty of room for all God's creatures, right next to the mashed potatoes...noli timere messorem
Nam Marine
User ID: 1170522
United States
08/19/2012 10:35 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
okay so now you warmongers can see that Iran is one tough cookie...the if a war with Iran happens US would have no choice but to either surrender, or use megaton nuclear weapons which then it would be byekitty to the Americans then the world as we know it
 Quoting: moeskyhigh


Just another stupid ass Canadian faggot! Ignore him!
shitstreamCanadian F
CrazyBud

User ID: 20941149
United States
08/19/2012 10:36 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
because Millenium Challenge 2002 says so

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

US for the very first time will be defeated by the Persian army and it would be an embarrassment for the Americans
 Quoting: moeskyhigh


bsmeter2bsmeter2bsmeter2
 Quoting: Nam Marine 1170522


Semper Fi
There's plenty of room for all God's creatures, right next to the mashed potatoes...noli timere messorem
chris999

User ID: 19470458
United States
08/19/2012 10:37 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
because Millenium Challenge 2002 says so

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

US for the very first time will be defeated by the Persian army and it would be an embarrassment for the Americans
 Quoting: moeskyhigh


bsmeter2bsmeter2bsmeter2
 Quoting: Nam Marine 1170522


I no longer feel comfortable discussing this subject. But just remember, this wargames was 10 years ago.

If nothing else, they learned a big lesson that day. but on top of that, our tech has increased exponentially since then, and we have more experience.

Now lets hope this war doesnt happen.
I dont mean everything I say to be literal. I just like to throw around ideas, and play devil's advocate.

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.

-Galileo Galilei
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1324049
United States
08/19/2012 10:52 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
Citing a 2002 war game is useless, 10 years of technology and war planning has changed very much over tat time. The us has EMP capability going in to render most things useless.
We have watched Iran for years build and station things, even if they are mobile we can track them.

Personally I say just nuke them and not worry about anything.

If it started it would be over soon.
the-unknown

User ID: 10307267
United States
08/19/2012 10:54 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
because Millenium Challenge 2002 says so

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

US for the very first time will be defeated by the Persian army and it would be an embarrassment for the Americans
 Quoting: moeskyhigh

and this comes from a person with a pot leaf as their avatar
leave no stone unturned.....i have no idea why i wrote that ?!
s. d. butler

User ID: 974819
United States
08/20/2012 02:31 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
Citing a 2002 war game is useless, 10 years of technology and war planning has changed very much over tat time. The us has EMP capability going in to render most things useless.
We have watched Iran for years build and station things, even if they are mobile we can track them.

Personally I say just nuke them and not worry about anything.

If it started it would be over soon.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1324049


Sorry there guy, asymetric war is still asymetric war. If you think anything was learned from a 2002 war game I have a bridge to sell you.

And you haven't explained the possible and unintended consquences of another war. When the last two have been lost.

The US is bankrupt. Or did that escape your attention?

One shudders at the level of stupidity shown by the flag humpers.

Last Edited by s. d. butler on 08/20/2012 02:36 AM
TXGal4Truth

User ID: 17501294
United States
08/20/2012 02:37 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
lol

tgirnv
So have I now become your enemy for telling you the TRUTH? Galatians 4:16
************************************
“Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who sets the planets in motion.” ~Isaac Newton
************************************
We are called to be BOLD. ~Joshua 1:9~
************************************
You call me paranoid. I call you uninformed.

:tgdmwt:
TXGal4Truth

User ID: 17501294
United States
08/20/2012 02:41 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
it amazes me how much of the thundering sheep herd and NFWC, (NaiveFlagWavingCrowd) is on this site.

the Russians are at least 10-15 years ahead of the West in missile technology, so Iran is as well.

anybody ever heard of a Sunburn missile? the u.s. Aegis anti-missile system cannot crack this. Sunburns are on land, air, and subs in Iran.

but the biggest problem is that Obama, like Hitler, is a traitor; Hitler was sent in to destroy the German people, and O is doing the same thing to America.

how can all of you NFWC's be unaware that Obama wants the Russians to have our top secret missile codes......which is outraging the entire national defense system?


[link to www.foreignpolicy.com]
 Quoting: Brubaker


actually obama doesn't want any war and it's because of the Israeli pressure that he's putting sanctions on Iran...he really can't say fuck you to Israel cuz Israel already own the Americans
 Quoting: moeskyhigh


Are you kidding me? He's said fuck you to Israel since the beginning of his illegal presidency!
So have I now become your enemy for telling you the TRUTH? Galatians 4:16
************************************
“Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who sets the planets in motion.” ~Isaac Newton
************************************
We are called to be BOLD. ~Joshua 1:9~
************************************
You call me paranoid. I call you uninformed.

:tgdmwt:
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 21994296
United States
08/20/2012 02:46 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1637914


THAT, unfortunately is a delusion on your part. Iran..no of course not! But, it is foolish to take the attitude that the US is invincible.....it's just complete BS. Foolishness! History is riddled with the corpses of countries and empires that thought the were mightier than any and all others...right up to the point when they fell in abject defeat.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 22163377
Portugal
08/20/2012 03:51 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1637914


Maybe you cannot be defeated by a like enemy, a symmetric force. But you can be defeated in an asymmetric war, by an enemy that doesn't think or act as expected.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 22163377
Portugal
08/20/2012 03:52 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
it amazes me how much of the thundering sheep herd and NFWC, (NaiveFlagWavingCrowd) is on this site.

the Russians are at least 10-15 years ahead of the West in missile technology, so Iran is as well.

anybody ever heard of a Sunburn missile? the u.s. Aegis anti-missile system cannot crack this. Sunburns are on land, air, and subs in Iran.

but the biggest problem is that Obama, like Hitler, is a traitor; Hitler was sent in to destroy the German people, and O is doing the same thing to America.

how can all of you NFWC's be unaware that Obama wants the Russians to have our top secret missile codes......which is outraging the entire national defense system?


[link to www.foreignpolicy.com]
 Quoting: Brubaker


actually obama doesn't want any war and it's because of the Israeli pressure that he's putting sanctions on Iran...he really can't say fuck you to Israel cuz Israel already own the Americans
 Quoting: moeskyhigh


Are you kidding me? He's said fuck you to Israel since the beginning of his illegal presidency!
 Quoting: TXGal4Truth


Yup!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 22163377
Portugal
08/20/2012 03:52 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1637914


THAT, unfortunately is a delusion on your part. Iran..no of course not! But, it is foolish to take the attitude that the US is invincible.....it's just complete BS. Foolishness! History is riddled with the corpses of countries and empires that thought the were mightier than any and all others...right up to the point when they fell in abject defeat.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21994296


Yup!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 13920930
Canada
08/20/2012 03:55 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
.... yes , but Only up to when the US military Doctrine will call for Nukes to prevent further massive losses , just as it did twice in Japan WW2 !

Hence , the Iranians will shot themselves in the foot Big time thanks to their capability to defeat the Us Navy ... hmmm , I feel almost like someone Realy likes this scenario and is squzeeing in the US carriers in Hormuz to make it easier for the Iranians to shot themselvfs in the foot , Big time ...

For the Iranians it's no-win - no-win situation .
 Quoting: Doru


u mean loose - loose ?
peace
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2619774


Bot glitch hahaha
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 13920930
Canada
08/20/2012 03:57 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
Citing a 2002 war game is useless, 10 years of technology and war planning has changed very much over tat time. The us has EMP capability going in to render most things useless.
We have watched Iran for years build and station things, even if they are mobile we can track them.

Personally I say just nuke them and not worry about anything.

If it started it would be over soon.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1324049


This is an innocent country you fucktard.

NUKE Israel if anything - they did 9-11
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 22215440
Australia
08/20/2012 04:03 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
If Iran really do have that Gravmag tech that the Keshe Foundation say they developed, no attack is going to work against Iran.

Iran did manage to capture a US drone last year without so much as a scratch on it (and without hacking they say), it's possible that they really do have that tech.

This war could be interesting to say the least. It could also explain why the USA and Israel haven't actually declared war already.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 22163377
Portugal
08/20/2012 04:06 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
Citing a 2002 war game is useless, 10 years of technology and war planning has changed very much over tat time. The us has EMP capability going in to render most things useless.
We have watched Iran for years build and station things, even if they are mobile we can track them.

Personally I say just nuke them and not worry about anything.

If it started it would be over soon.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1324049


This is an innocent country you fucktard.

NUKE Israel if anything - they did 9-11
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13920930


lmao
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 22163377
Portugal
08/20/2012 04:08 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
If Iran really do have that Gravmag tech that the Keshe Foundation say they developed, no attack is going to work against Iran.

Iran did manage to capture a US drone last year without so much as a scratch on it (and without hacking they say), it's possible that they really do have that tech.

This war could be interesting to say the least. It could also explain why the USA and Israel haven't actually declared war already.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22215440


They were assisted by the Chinese on that.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 22215440
Australia
08/20/2012 04:13 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
If Iran really do have that Gravmag tech that the Keshe Foundation say they developed, no attack is going to work against Iran.

Iran did manage to capture a US drone last year without so much as a scratch on it (and without hacking they say), it's possible that they really do have that tech.

This war could be interesting to say the least. It could also explain why the USA and Israel haven't actually declared war already.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22215440


They were assisted by the Chinese on that.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22163377


Nope, China have shown interest in any developments that arise due to Iran's attempts at reverse engineering the drone's stealth tech and such, but it was Iran themselves that downed the drone, perfectly intact.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 13920930
Canada
08/20/2012 04:16 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
Citing a 2002 war game is useless, 10 years of technology and war planning has changed very much over tat time. The us has EMP capability going in to render most things useless.
We have watched Iran for years build and station things, even if they are mobile we can track them.

Personally I say just nuke them and not worry about anything.

If it started it would be over soon.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1324049


This is an innocent country you fucktard.

NUKE Israel if anything - they did 9-11
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13920930


lmao
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22163377


you laugh at yourself, you know nothing but how to talk from a toilet.
s. d. butler

User ID: 974819
United States
08/20/2012 04:22 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
Citing a 2002 war game is useless, 10 years of technology and war planning has changed very much over tat time. The us has EMP capability going in to render most things useless.
We have watched Iran for years build and station things, even if they are mobile we can track them.

Personally I say just nuke them and not worry about anything.

If it started it would be over soon.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1324049


This is an innocent country you fucktard.

NUKE Israel if anything - they did 9-11
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13920930


lmao
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22163377


you laugh at yourself, you know nothing but how to talk from a toilet.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13920930


It is amazing how casual the idiots are about calling for the use of nuclear weapons. One wonders how eager they would be if nuclear weapons were used on them.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 22163377
Portugal
08/20/2012 04:38 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: I'm most definitely sure Iran will beat the US Navy fifth fleet
If Iran really do have that Gravmag tech that the Keshe Foundation say they developed, no attack is going to work against Iran.

Iran did manage to capture a US drone last year without so much as a scratch on it (and without hacking they say), it's possible that they really do have that tech.

This war could be interesting to say the least. It could also explain why the USA and Israel haven't actually declared war already.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22215440


They were assisted by the Chinese on that.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22163377


Nope, China have shown interest in any developments that arise due to Iran's attempts at reverse engineering the drone's stealth tech and such, but it was Iran themselves that downed the drone, perfectly intact.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22215440


That is not what some Iranians say...

News








We're dropping truth bombs like it's the end of days!