"Sinner's Prayer" is heresy and no one can of their own will "accept Christ." Salvation is not so simple.

Such is the importance of interpreting the bible with the bible. What the blind man meant was not sinners in general, but willful sinners, those who do not do the will of God.

Hebrews 10:26-30 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

The above passage should clarify the following verse to some degree.

Isaiah 1:15 And when ye spread forth your hands [in petition to God], I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.

To have hands full of blood would mean to be guilty of crime deserving of death, namely, sin (Genesis 9:6 and Ezekiel 18:20). In other words, God equates willful sinning with spiritual murder, which, by the way, is why Jesus called the Satan the father of murder (John 8:44). So, the blind man meant willful sinners, not sinners in general. Hope that helps.

God created me as an imperfect human being, as long as I go home a little closer to perfect than I started, I think he will be glad of my progress.

We are all here to learn. Would you send your kids here without watching over them? I doubt it.

Fear is a man made control mechanism.

Get up everyday and do the best you can. If you slip up and act like an @ss, get up tomorrow and try to do better.

That's all it takes, make an effort and talk with God and have a personal relationship with him.

Hell is getting lost in ego and acting like an @ss, greed, negative, jealous etc. That's all nothing more.

Belief is certainly the method of salvation. It is not merely confession. The bible is clear that confession (or profession) is not enough to merit salvation.

Speaking with the Greek Christian Scriptures in mind, confession is usually a translation of the Greek word homologeo. Homologeo is a conjunction of homo and logos. Homo means same, logos means word. Conjoined, it means to be of the same word or to speak in the same fashion.

However, the bible makes it abundantly clear that profession of faith alone is not good enough to determine the spiritual state of a person.

Matthew 7:21-23 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Matthew 15:8-9 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

So then how can one determine the legitimacy of another person's faith? By their works.

Timothy 1:16 They profess [Gk. homologeo] that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Matthew 7:18-20 A good tree [person] cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree [person] bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit [works] is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.



Firstly, salvation is not a one-time event. Salvation is a process which begins at new birth and ends at physical death.

Secondly, to judge means to declare guilty or innocence. It does not just mean to declare guilt. Most people misunderstand that.

The bible never forbids us from judging brothers or sisters. It forbids us from personally biased judgment, but not from judgment entirely. In fact, it is our duty as Christians to judge - righteously, that is. Being a Christian means being a spiritual priest and king, which were both judicial positions in ancient Israel.

Leviticus 19:15 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: [but] in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.

Proverbs 31:9 Open thy mouth, judge righteously, and plead the cause of the poor and needy.

Not all who profess Christ are genuine brothers. However, if a person has attempted or is attempting to combat their own sinful inclinations and truly understand the holy bible, then we are to be compassionate toward them and aid them.



Firstly, love in the Greek is agape. The biblically contextual definition of the word is given in the epistle of John and it means to be obedient to the commands of God. So, yes, all his believers are filled with knowledge of his commands and do obey them to varying degrees.

Secondly, we are under no circumstances supposed to be merciful to those who completely refuse to repent. That is an extreme misunderstanding among Christians these days.

That is called being a friend with the world, and that equated with an opponent to God (i.e., being in league with the Satan against God - James 4:4).

2John 1:9-11 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: for he that biddeth [ie, shows] him God speed [ie, favor] is partaker of his evil deeds.

After, and only after, a person repents may we show them mercy and favor.

Luke 17:3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and IF he repent, forgive him

There remains no sacrifice for sins if we sin willfully (Heb 10:26-27).

You simply do not understand what I mean. When a person is truly born of God, they learn somewhat of the sovereignty of God. As their spiritual life progresses in the word of God, they begin to understand all the more the sovereign power of God.

A sinner's prayer is UNNECESSARY because if a person does genuinely pray the prayer, the conversion ALREADY OCCURRED before even quoting the silly thing. And accepting Christ is IMPOSSIBLE for a person to do until and unless God reveals himself to that person and convicts their heart of sin. God brings WHO he wants to life WHEN he wants them alive. The only reason God uses preaching to convert people is to shove it down the throat of the arrogant of this world that think their power and accomplishments mean anything compared to His. Otherwise, preaching would be completely unnecessary.

It is really that simple...

A lifetime struggle against sin is the true sinner's prayer...

The Sinner's Prayer is simply another form of ritualistic circumcision that Paul preached against. It is Heresy.

I never call stop calling a duck what it is.

Then there is that pesky thief on the cross...

Looks like the joke was on him, huh, Op. Yeshua didn't really mean what he said -- did he?

Takes faith to believe in Yeshua....might call that being called, ehh? Following the faith, the declaration....sounds fairly simple to me.

Either that, or you're calling Yeshua a liar....remember that pesky thief....?

When you know, the notion of a one god in-game diety to be completely false... Then all the notions, commandments and impressions that come from religion are from god posers...

Simply other galaxy participants who wish to bring you under control...

before baptism, a person is supposed to learn the scriptures

not just say a prayer and be done

there is a requirement to LEARN and understand

how else can you be responsible enough to agree to the contract you are entering?

(btw, the "instant baptism" in the Gospels were all jewish converts---already very well versed in scripture)

baptism really is your starting point

your beginning in the walk

not the end point so-called "christians" seem to think

I have heard many who say they are already saved and need do nothing more

and feel like they can behave in any manner they want because "I am already saved"

complete rubbish and taken totally out of context.

believe, repent, confess, and you will be saved.

you are right about the effort part. all of the above words are verbs. action is necessary, and of course faith.

What is funny - is you have this god poser telling everyone to not be sinners, and be righteous... But, believe me - this poser would not hesitate to kill you in a second if it suited her purpose...

Paul's point is that confession of Christ in the face of opposition is a true testament to the faith of the individual, the kind of faith that saves a person.

No one will ever be good enough for Christ. That is undeniable.

Romans 3:9-12 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both jewish people and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; as it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: there is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.

But that is not to say that God does not have mercy on some. How one knows God has had mercy on them is in the divine chastening God forces them to endure. God does through bad health, loss of money, loss of possessions, or loss of abilities, or even mistreatment from people. God does this for us to realize that we ourselves are the problem, not other people, and that we need to repent from being lovers of ourselves.

You seem to be using your emotions to determine whether something is factual or not. I must caution you against doing so. The bible states that the fleshly mind is hostile to the things of God and cannot submit to them.

If you are sincere about the bible and serving God, I suggest that you sincerely evaluate your perspective on the bible and especially what your bible teachers have taught you.

Hebrews 10:30-31 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Hope this helps.

You know what you're talking about.

Last Edited by Philemon on 08/29/2012 12:18 AM

^ I agree. And people wonder why after years, God does not hear them. It is always our perception that is skewed, not Him. There heart wasn't in it, even though they thought they were good enuf.

You do realize that you're calling the bible Satan? No one is good enough for Christ. The bible states that very clearly.



What was finished was his work on the cross. The work he must complete on us is not finished. That is why we are now being conformed to the image of Christ, because we have yet to be finished.



I fail to understand how you fail to understand that you have contradicted yourself. You claim to be imperfect, which is correct. Then you claim that Christ must be the one to change you because you cannot do it on your own, which is also correct. Then you claim that you must give him permission to change you? I do not believe you, and many, many others, understand what Christ changes us from and into.

The bible states that our best is, quite plainly, GARBAGE.

Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and ALL our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Psalm 39:5 Behold, thou hast made my days as an handbreadth; and mine age is as nothing before thee: verily every man at his best state is altogether vanity. Selah.

Emotionalism does not equal godliness. You must strive against your own opinions and desires for the opinions and desires of God. Devote your time to understanding the bible's true meaning, then attempting to fully obey it.

Question yourself, ALWAYS. Because what you do know that is true will stand the test. And the knowledge you gain from testing as truth what turns out false can be used against it if ever it appears again in the future.

2Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Seek the favor of God by doing this. He will never turn a sincere seeker of his truth away. Hope this helps.

Was this comment of yours addressed to me? The thief on the cross had saving faith. He believed in Christ and was saved as a consequence. The faith of the man caused him to repent, the proof of such being his petition to Christ for mercy (i.e, remembering him in paradise).

Faith and repentance, which is the operation of faith, are things God alone grants a person and distributes to them.

Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think [of himself] more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

2Timothy 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

Most Christians do not understand what it meant to be a Christian in Paul's time. It required much more personal sacrifice than most of us Americans are accustomed to, especially if you were a Christian in Judea.

- Believing is not something a person can do of their own will. It is simply impossible.

- Repenting means to think differently, specifically, to no longer think in only a carnal dimension but in a spiritual one. That is utterly impossible for weak, selfish beings such as ourselves to do without the intervening power of God.

- Confessing is something that accompanies the actual effort of obeying God, which is basically a course of endurance. It is not so much about obeying God now that makes you righteous, but obeying God through and through; through apathy, aversion, hostility, persecution; through times when you do not feel like doing it, through times when your harm is likely but the benefit of other Christians great.

Not a day passes that I don't find myself grateful that my belief system doesn't contain the vast majority of what people claim it should.

I feel no threat for myself nor anyone else, for that matter. Total peace and contentment with my repetitive, Torah observant life.

I've NO concern for this thing people call "Hell" ... Sheol is such a superior vision (much older and lasted a lot longer than this purgatory/hell/heaven concept the RCC sold the world). Anyone that can't reconcile the concept of Hell as taught by traditional Christianity really should do a little research into the topic of Sheol. Exactly why the concepts held by Hebrews for thousands of years prior to the RCC were totally abandoned in favor of the Mega McChurch's version is utterly beyond me.

The Lake of Fire is nothing more than a purifying fire to burn away the impurities within the wicked so that what remains can be allowed into the new Kingdom on Earth, Olam HaBa. At least in my belief system, anyway. It's often referred to as being akin to a silversmith's or goldsmith's fire. That's the neat part. See, back in the way back. In the before times ( :P ) a silversmith knew the impurities were separated and settled to the bottom when he would look over the silver and could clearly see his own reflection in the surface.

Until the day mainstream Christianity stops looking to what came after while ignoring what came before, I don't see many being grafted into the living branch going forward.

Last Edited by Sir Phydeau on 08/29/2012 02:34 AM

what you are doing is wrong and quite frankly, dangerous. tread lightly. you are taking scripture waaaayyy out of context to help people to fall. false teaching, very false.

Yes, Salt and Lisa are right. You are confused. Do not confuse others...

Read Salt's footer:

On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
“What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”
He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”
“You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.” --Luke 10:25-28

That's great, but then you're Jewish. The Torah won't save you, and it can't forgive sins. Only Jesus can.

Look to the cross, not the Torah.

:810ressurect:

Calvinism v Armininsm

The “Sinner’s Prayer”?




Recently, a doctrinal lightning bolt has struck the Southern Baptist Convention. It centers on the open declaration of some Arminian SBC members affirming their doctrinal position and thus openly denying the doctrinal position of the Calvinistic members of the SBC—namely, denying Four of the Five Points of Calvinism[1] or, what is called, the doctrines of grace. Headed by Pastor Eric Hankins of FBC Oxford, MS, a statement of faith entitled, “A Statement of the Traditional Southern Baptist Understanding of God’s Plan of Salvation” was developed by a number of pastors and professors within the SBC. It consisted of Ten Articles of Faith affirming Arminian doctrines and denying Calvinistic ones. A Petition was attached for SBC members to sign. As expected, Arminian concepts and texts (esp. John 3:16; 1 Tim. 2:3-4; 2 Pet. 3:9; etc.) are merely cited in the Articles with its “traditional” understanding assumed. Ironically, Article Three uses the phrase (in agreement) “penal substitution.” But this is completely inconsistent—for this phrase is a borrowed phrase from the Reformers and thus a decidedly Calvinistic concept.



Undeniably, the Southern Baptists have enjoyed a long history of biblical scholarship; scholarship, however, which has been purely Calvinistic in soteriology. Josh Buice, pastor of Pray's Mill Baptist Church in Douglasville, GA, rightly asked: “Have we forgotten our history as Southern Baptists where we had Calvinists such as Lottie Moon, James P. Boyce, John L. Dagg, A. T. Robertson, John A. Broadus, and many others who served in our convention along with those who were less Calvinistic (Reformed) in their doctrine? They didn't fight over it, throw mud, and pull out the heresy sword to use on one another.”[2] For decades SBC Calvinistic and Arminian pastors have co-existed with no problem. Now, by aggressively promoting this anti-Calvinistic Petition, the promoters of the Articles are causing a divisive and an unnecessary fraction within the SBC.



One more important point to consider: The original charter of The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, which contained it’s “fundamental laws,” implemented in 1858 expresses the historic Reformed doctrines of grace, thus, the Five points of Calvinism especially note Article V on Election: "Election is God’s eternal choice of some persons unto everlasting life — not because of foreseen merit in them, but of his mere mercy in Christ — in consequence of which choice they are called, justified and glorified" (see here the Articles of the 1858, now called Abstract of Principles at the Seminary)

[link to christiandefense.org]

Prove it.

Yeshua did not say "it is finished".

He spoke one single word.

Learn what that word is.

Learn of its use in the day and by whom.

Learn.

Learn.

Learn.

Insure that you only teach, once you have learned...

Rise of the Archons
05 June 2012
Rense: How are they duplicating reality? Is it by using consciousness?

Weidner: Yes, according to the texts, they can get into people and can manipulate people to do things very suddenly that are very odd. But also they are actually responsible for the deterioration of culture, so unlike the culture of the ancient Greeks or Chinese but a cheap façade of a culture. As the Archonic presence has spread across the earth and has escalated in the 20th century, you can see that they are responsible for sprawl and the mass ugliness that is everywhere.

Television is an example of Archonic imitation.

Humans are imitated on television but the imitation is altered and is nearly always obscene and profane because the Archons not only do not understand the sacred but they hate it. They are jealous of the natural world and of human beings with the natural world. Also of sexual relationships: loving couples make them angry and they love violence and are sexually titillated by anger and war and death. They create war to consume energy from the dying.

Rense: The Archons seem to be making their big move now, at this time. You can find out about the Nag Hammadi Library on the Internet, which is the living record of the great Gnostic movement. Gnostics..seem to have been all but cleansed from history.

*

"The Gnostics thought that Jehovah was an alien/demon/lord archon and that he was a fake god – a masquerading archon - Lord Archon - duplicating reality. They did believe in God, they believed in what they called the one true God and that’s how they always defined it. Interestingly, Jesus defined his belief as being of the one true God, always delineating it. I believe many of the stories of Jesus are actually Gnostic myths about a possible rebellion against the Archons who came down very severely on the rebel.

So the Archons were released somehow from a prison – and this is probably what The Book of Enoch is about – where he said he took the demons and locked them in a box but that they would come back at the end of time. Jesus was very interested in relating this idea that something was going to happen at the end of time..so we can work out a picture of what these Archonic forces are. They were somehow successfully quelled and then began their re-emergence and they are as close to immortal as we could understand and that’s why their plan is so precise but they needed time to gain power because, the people of the earth were essentially gnostics who were resistant to, and didn’t believe in the “religion” that was being foisted on them where they must be fearful of an angry, war god called Jehovah. But eventually, the forces of Jehovah conquered the last of them and now they are pretty much in control of the system and are busy ceating the infamous 'genocide of cambodia, WWII, stalin, mao, etc. - 20th century) orgy of despair and horror [imposed upon humans] which is 'the end result of the buildup of the population over the last 2,000 years by means of strategic successful manipulation of humanity through the major religions.
The story of this can be put together by following the histories of how these churches were formed and becaome so large and monsterous. And right now we have a monster on our hands which is growing in power, tht is the Lord Archon himself. more later.."

A fairly concise and informative article. I do recommend it.

OP is correct!

It's not about us "accepting" The Most High God! Jesus never called us to "accept" Him - He called us to lay down our lives and *follow* Him!

A great part of the problem is today's definition of "believe"

To "believe" in the context Scripture teaches, means forsaking *all*!

Today, broadly speaking, even the demons deliver more reverence when it comes to believing Who He Is:

Jas 2:19 You believe that there is one God, you do well; even the demons believe and tremble.

However today, it seems most people live by a different definition of the word "believe"! Today, the word "believe" simply means to acknowledge. The demons not only "acknowledge" The Most High God...they *tremble*!

Most today most "believe and mock" by their life and choices.

Laying down our lives and following Him is *the least* of reasonable service for What He Has Done!

John 19:30 "When he had received the drink, Jesus said, "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit."

"Tetelestai" = It is finished.

By the way, I speak english friend, not greek. And when the Holy Spirit speaks to me, He speaks to me in English, not greek.