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God doesn't exist, here's why. Quit wasting your time religiontards

 
Anonymous Coward
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08/29/2012 10:37 AM
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Re: God doesn't exist, here's why. Quit wasting your time religiontards
God is not omnipotent - If God can't create another being that has the power to kill him, then that too means that God is not omnipotent.

You made God human - which is the only way most people can relate to the subject. If god is just an energy force with intelligence (for example) he can not be killed. Since you placed god in our reality subject to our conditions you created a false result. Try again.

God is not omnipresent - If God is omnipresent, then God exists in pure evil at all times.

If god is the fabric of all that is created then yes this would be true. But, once again, if we do equate God to the fabric of this creation than that does not impute the variables of our reality upon God. To explain this to you in simple terms, your computer is made up of atoms, but the atoms do not take on the properties of the computer - they exist independently of the computer and it's functionality. In other words, God does not loose identity simply because he embodies everything. And who the fuck exactly is this devil you're talking about?

God is not omniscient...since you are not in control of your choices and destiny and [because] God knows everything, therefore if he knows everything, he can't create any new idea or concept or piece of knowledge.

You totally miss the concept of free will. We control our choices. And again you are placing God in to this reality - works good for your small brain but if he's outside this reality than God could know everything about our relaity (for example not subject to our perception of time) and still have created us and this reality.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: God doesn't exist, here's why. Quit wasting your time religiontards
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I did. I argued an equivalency between the concepts of "God" and "existence". The two concepts are just words, right? Now, I could have taken that further and suggested that "existence" has some sort of personalism to it, but I didn't go that far. I just stuck with the OP's terms of omnipotence, omnipresence and omniscience and I explained what I meant. No one has refuted that except to say, "I reject your terms." Well, hey, that's not an argument.

Relevancy was then the question, "can existence not exist?" and because I was equivocating, I was in essence asking "can God not exist?". If "God" is "existence" it is not possible for God to not exist? God could be existence, think about it.

"Existence" is a very subtle concept and most take it for granted that they know what it is. It takes deep contemplation to maybe grasp it, and even then you cannot hold it (very much like the idea of "wisdom").
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16660428


Is it possible for you to exist or have existence, when you don't exist where I exist?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 424213


You can't "have existence" as a possession, I think. Otherwise who would be doing the having?

What do you mean "I don't exist where you exist."
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16660428
Simple, you don't exist, in my realm of existence, one of us, would have to travel to the others realm, in order to to physically coexist.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 424213


Are you not just equating existence with physicality? Are we not physically connected now is some subtle sense?
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08/29/2012 10:39 AM
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Re: God doesn't exist, here's why. Quit wasting your time religiontards
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I did. I argued an equivalency between the concepts of "God" and "existence". The two concepts are just words, right? Now, I could have taken that further and suggested that "existence" has some sort of personalism to it, but I didn't go that far. I just stuck with the OP's terms of omnipotence, omnipresence and omniscience and I explained what I meant. No one has refuted that except to say, "I reject your terms." Well, hey, that's not an argument.

Relevancy was then the question, "can existence not exist?" and because I was equivocating, I was in essence asking "can God not exist?". If "God" is "existence" it is not possible for God to not exist? God could be existence, think about it.

"Existence" is a very subtle concept and most take it for granted that they know what it is. It takes deep contemplation to maybe grasp it, and even then you cannot hold it (very much like the idea of "wisdom").
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16660428

How can "existence" be omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent? What do you call by existence? Do you name your God "existence"?
 Quoting: Anonymous Subscriber
It isn't possible for anything to exist, without a creator. All things have a point of creation, this is simple scientific fact.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 424213

Well, you just dug yourself a big hole because YOU claim that God had no point of creation. Who was God's creator? Did a magical man just suddenly show up in the sky? Was a magical man sitting up there and then suddenly he thought, "Hey, I'm bored, I think I'll create some stuff?" You logic is illogical. If it isn't possible for anything to exist without a creator, then who created the creator? Can you answer this?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814




We have begining and end in this reality. It's quite possible that in God's reality there is no beginning. It boggles your mind because you are equating some unkown to your reality and it's variables. Try again.
vexed
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08/29/2012 10:39 AM
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Re: God doesn't exist, here's why. Quit wasting your time religiontards
"My own suspicion is that the Universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we CAN suppose." ~ J. B. S. Haldane

[link to en.m.wikiquote.org]

A little food for thought for those who feel that humanity, which from afar behaves like a tiny parasite upon its host world, has somehow figured it all out through strictly 'scientific' means.


------
 Quoting: BOWMAN




Scientists are kicking butt with what they do, slowly unlocking the so called secrets of the earth, if the earth is giving them up, then they were perhaps never intended to be secrets?

Religions believe they have it all figured out.

So, where are the mysteries?
Where is the complexity?

There doesn't seem to be any.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: God doesn't exist, here's why. Quit wasting your time religiontards
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I did. I argued an equivalency between the concepts of "God" and "existence". The two concepts are just words, right? Now, I could have taken that further and suggested that "existence" has some sort of personalism to it, but I didn't go that far. I just stuck with the OP's terms of omnipotence, omnipresence and omniscience and I explained what I meant. No one has refuted that except to say, "I reject your terms." Well, hey, that's not an argument.

Relevancy was then the question, "can existence not exist?" and because I was equivocating, I was in essence asking "can God not exist?". If "God" is "existence" it is not possible for God to not exist? God could be existence, think about it.

"Existence" is a very subtle concept and most take it for granted that they know what it is. It takes deep contemplation to maybe grasp it, and even then you cannot hold it (very much like the idea of "wisdom").
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16660428

How can "existence" be omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent? What do you call by existence? Do you name your God "existence"?
 Quoting: Anonymous Subscriber
It isn't possible for anything to exist, without a creator. All things have a point of creation, this is simple scientific fact.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 424213


So if God exists (if he is a thing) he also has a point of creation, according to your reasoning here?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16660428


According to scripture the point of creation is relationship. Same reason many parents have babies.
BOWMAN

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08/29/2012 10:40 AM

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Re: God doesn't exist, here's why. Quit wasting your time religiontards
cells

The presence of electrical flow in our bodies is the presence of life.

When electrical flow ceases, we are dead.

Each of our individual cells has contained within them a tiny spark of electrical flow along with a magnetic field.

Each cell is therefor it's own living unit.

Our planet, considered by some to be one living entity made up of many smaller living units, has electrical flow and a magnetic field.

Our Sun has a measure of electrical flow and a magnetic field.

Our galaxy...

Our Universe...

etc...

universe

Pattern recognition. thumbs

It's a BIG IDEA. sun


------
"And I understood that in an age where there was so much ego, because of the camera, that it was very important to look for that kind of player, ... I began to look for the kind of player that doesn't need his ego fed by stardom, but will do what he's supposed to do because he knows the game and loves the game, and will do the job the right way even if someone else gets the glory." ~ Bill Belichick

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Anonymous Coward
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08/29/2012 10:40 AM
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Re: God doesn't exist, here's why. Quit wasting your time religiontards
Is there any reason why existence has to exist?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16660428


Why do you keep asking me the same question over and over. You haven't explained at all the relevancy of your statement.
 Quoting: Anonymous Subscriber


Its a perfectly good question.

For something that is highly worshipped and revered all across the lands for generations and generations, it must have a purpose for its existence.

If you can't answer then say so.
 Quoting: vexed 22814377


The concept of God DOES have a purpose. People need God which is why there is all this arguing. No one wants to think they just die and rot in the ground, never to be seen again. Primitive men came up with this concept of God so they could control people by use of fear and reward. And God was originally the sun. Those people worshiped the sun because it was the light of the world, it gave life to all things, without it there would be nothing. So God is still the sun today, only most people don't understand that. This is why the concept of God is still around. People WANT to believe in that concept. That is the purpose of it. It gives these people hope but it is still better to deal in with reality, I think.
Anonymous Coward
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08/29/2012 10:43 AM
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Re: God doesn't exist, here's why. Quit wasting your time religiontards
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814
It isn't possible for anything to exist, without a creator. All things have a point of creation, this is simple scientific fact.

Well, you just dug yourself a big hole because YOU claim that God had no point of creation. Who was God's creator? Did a magical man just suddenly show up in the sky? Was a magical man sitting up there and then suddenly he thought, "Hey, I'm bored, I think I'll create some stuff?" You logic is illogical. If it isn't possible for anything to exist without a creator, then who created the creator? Can you answer this?
I actually never claimed God has no creator, you made the claim that I did. No human can tell you if God had a creator, but if that is and all we can perceive, is what God created, then it really doesn't matter.
Anonymous Coward
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08/29/2012 10:43 AM
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...

How can "existence" be omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent? What do you call by existence? Do you name your God "existence"?
 Quoting: Anonymous Subscriber
It isn't possible for anything to exist, without a creator. All things have a point of creation, this is simple scientific fact.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 424213

Well, you just dug yourself a big hole because YOU claim that God had no point of creation. Who was God's creator? Did a magical man just suddenly show up in the sky? Was a magical man sitting up there and then suddenly he thought, "Hey, I'm bored, I think I'll create some stuff?" You logic is illogical. If it isn't possible for anything to exist without a creator, then who created the creator? Can you answer this?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814




We have begining and end in this reality. It's quite possible that in God's reality there is no beginning. It boggles your mind because you are equating some unkown to your reality and it's variables. Try again.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3978737


Once again, you are making the assumption that some God exists. If there is no God, your assumptions are silly and misleading. You say God has no beginning, just like I could say that the universe had no beginning. GOD IS AN UNKNOWN, no one knows if that concept exists or not. You are making the assumption that GOd exists without question. You need to start asking yourself some questions. And what God do YOU believe in? The Christian God, the Muslim God, because it makes a difference, you know?
Anonymous Coward
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08/29/2012 10:44 AM
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Re: God doesn't exist, here's why. Quit wasting your time religiontards
"My own suspicion is that the Universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we CAN suppose." ~ J. B. S. Haldane

[link to en.m.wikiquote.org]

A little food for thought for those who feel that humanity, which from afar behaves like a tiny parasite upon its host world, has somehow figured it all out through strictly 'scientific' means.


------
 Quoting: BOWMAN




Scientists are kicking butt with what they do, slowly unlocking the so called secrets of the earth, if the earth is giving them up, then they were perhaps never intended to be secrets?

Religions believe they have it all figured out.

So, where are the mysteries?
Where is the complexity?

There doesn't seem to be any.
 Quoting: vexed 22814377


Nobody claims to know exactly how God created the physical universe. We just know He did.

Just like the Naturalists have 100% Faith in Nature as the only creator. They practice "Nature of the Gaps" just like others practice "God of the Gaps".. You are so blind you can not see your own dogma?

The only different is that the Naturalist position has been scientifically demonstrated to be irrational.

Hence why they've been running around like headless chickens trying to develop a theory for the beginnings of life. Science shows it is irrational to assume something so complex happened by accident.


Rational Inference to the best explanation points to Intelligent Design. Always has, always will.

Atheism and Naturalism fail.
Anonymous Coward
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08/29/2012 10:45 AM
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Re: God doesn't exist, here's why. Quit wasting your time religiontards
...



Why does it matter to you "what I am." Answer the argument and stop going AD HOMINEM (that's not an insult by the way, just an observation about your argument).

You say above "either believe in a God or don't." So atheism, ie not believing in a god is a BELIEF SYSTEM. You have no proof, but you believe it anyway.

I haven't told you whether I have a belief or not. The argument is about whether God exists (as per the OP). Stop making assumptions about my beliefs. All I am saying is that the proposition that God does not exist is a belief, not a fact.

Further, I am saying you should be fair and just and define your terms for "God" instead of just setting up strawmen and poking fun at Christians.

I have defined "God" as "existence". Does existence not exist according to you? If you want to reject my definition / terms for "God" then say why, and propose what your terms are.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16660428


I will give you one last reply and then I have to go take care of my dogs. My dogs don't believe in God, by the way. They are not "religious" animals" anymore. They used to go to church every Sunday. They prayed to their doggie God and gave him half a cup of kibbles and bits so he would love them. But the doggie God never answered their prayers and the dog food went to other dogs. No God ever came down from heaven to get it. So they quit being religious. Of course, some would still say they practice a religion but they just chuckle at that. LOL

You ask me to define "GOD?" How can I define GOD when I don't BELIEVE IN GOD?? If I said I believe in unicorns, would you ask me to define a unicorn?? REALLY? If you believe that God is existence, then fine? I think this is really stupid because you have EVIDENCE in the form of evolution that explains, in the best way humanly possible, that we evolved to the point where we are today. You ask me if existance does not exist? Are you serious? This question has absolutely nothing to do with the EXISTENCE of some God. Of course, I exist, my dogs exist. If you think some God is responsible for your existence, then you are not an agnostic. You believe in some God, though I don't know which one, at this point. Do tell???

I will explain, once again, that I do not believe in ANY Gods. I don't have to give you a detailed explanation of what I don't believe in. I don't think the Muslim God, the Christian God, the Jehovah's Witness God, the Mormon God, the Hindu Gods, etc. are real. I think these fables are all man-made. ALL OF THEM. I pick on Christianity most, probably because I used to be a brainwashed Christian myself. So I reject your definition and terms for Gods because I don't think they exist. Can it get any clearer than that?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


Well that was a much better response, without all the name calling and strawmen of before. I like your story about the dogs, but are you sure they don't believe in God? Did they tell you? Perhaps they have now adopted a personal disposition, based on their experience, that their is no Dog. Perhaps their own personal experience is too limited to address the question for all dogs, but they'll stick to their new belief that there is no Dog in heaven.

I am asking you to define what CONCEPT of God it is that you don't believe in. Is it just the strawmen concepts of the previous posts that you don't believe in or any concept of any type of god whatsoever? How about pure intelligence? How about existence itself? Life perhaps?

You don't believe in unicorns, OK. But if we define a unicorn as any animal with one horn on its head, that definition could include a Rhino. Rhino's exist, right. So according to one definition of "unicorn", unicorn's exist.

You are using the concept / term "God" as though everyone understands what you mean by that. I don't know what you mean when you say God does not exist.

The OP pointed out three attributes of the God concept. Those could apply to something like the concept of existence itself (as I pointed out in ealier posts).
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16660428

Okay, thanks a lot. My dogs are being neglected because of you. They are taking this pretty well. They probably have to pee and poop and they need food but, here I am, arguing with someone about something that doesn't exist. Makes a lot of sense to them, I'll bet. No, I don't know what my dogs are thinking but I AM THINKING there should be no term for what we call "GOD." I could say that Allah doesn't exist or I could say that Xenu (the Scientology God) doesn't exist and it would be the same thing for an atheist. The concept of God is pretty well known. I am using the term "GOD" to explain what most of humanity refers to when they talk about "GOD." But the reality is that there should be no term for something that is so vague, like God is.

God as the creator of all life. That is the GOd that I am talking about. It doesn't really matter to me if a person practices Christianity or Scientology. The thing I am arguing AGAINST is the concept that there is something larger, greater, than us, that had a hand in our creation. That could even be some alien intelligence. I don't believe in that either, BUT, if it was proved to me differently, then I WOULD believe.

Now, if some man who called himself God came down to earth and did miracles, would I instantly become religious? No, I would still be skeptical. I would think someone was playing a trick on me. So my beliefs are based on reality. I believe in things that are rational and that make sense. I do not believe in any concept like God until it is proven to me...beyond doubt.

As far as existence, I think we got here by evolution because evolution is real. Scientists (who are much more intelligent than I am) have proven this TO THEMSELVES. In fact, most all scientists are atheists because they see no reason to believe in some creator. Maybe I still am not answering your questions, but what do you believe? Like the other poster asked, Do you believe in God? Do you care? You can't argue with someone if they don't tell you what THEY believe. So who is God to you? Define him.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


LOL. I'm sure your dogs will survive.

Thanks for making it clear what you mean. Is there another version of God (ie, not the traditional creator form) that could exist for you? What about all life collectively?

Surely you can think of something larger and greater than YOU that had a hand in your creation - or did you conceive, gestate, birth and raise yourself?

What about gravity, what about sunlight? Without these there could be no life on earth. Surely you would consider those larger and greater than us mere humans?

I contend that a sustained and deep enquiry into one's own nature will ultimately yield up the truth...and that truth is beyond belief!
WakeUp! Message

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Re: God doesn't exist, here's why. Quit wasting your time religiontards
...

Pattern recognition. thumbs

It's a BIG IDEA. sun


------
 Quoting: BOWMAN


and

“Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.” By Martin Luther King, Jr.

Because it's time to Wake Up!
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Anonymous Coward
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08/29/2012 10:47 AM
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Re: God doesn't exist, here's why. Quit wasting your time religiontards
God is not omnipotent - If God can't create another being that has the power to kill him, then that too means that God is not omnipotent.

You made God human - which is the only way most people can relate to the subject. If god is just an energy force with intelligence (for example) he can not be killed. Since you placed god in our reality subject to our conditions you created a false result. Try again.

God is not omnipresent - If God is omnipresent, then God exists in pure evil at all times.

If god is the fabric of all that is created then yes this would be true. But, once again, if we do equate God to the fabric of this creation than that does not impute the variables of our reality upon God. To explain this to you in simple terms, your computer is made up of atoms, but the atoms do not take on the properties of the computer - they exist independently of the computer and it's functionality. In other words, God does not loose identity simply because he embodies everything. And who the fuck exactly is this devil you're talking about?

God is not omniscient...since you are not in control of your choices and destiny and [because] God knows everything, therefore if he knows everything, he can't create any new idea or concept or piece of knowledge.

You totally miss the concept of free will. We control our choices. And again you are placing God in to this reality - works good for your small brain but if he's outside this reality than God could know everything about our relaity (for example not subject to our perception of time) and still have created us and this reality.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3978737


You are the one with the small brain. You are desperately clinging to this concept of God while YOU KNOW that you have no idea if such a concept exists. Evolution is proven. Who is this mysterious God you are talking about? Is it the Christian God/Jesus? Is it some other God? You WANT to believe in God so you cling to this idea of yours. You say stupid things to support your belief in some creator. Chances are VERY GOOD, that there is no creator. Grow up.
Anonymous Coward
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08/29/2012 10:48 AM
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Re: God doesn't exist, here's why. Quit wasting your time religiontards
You say God has no beginning,
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814
Those are your words, not his, please quit with the misquoting.
Anonymous Coward
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08/29/2012 10:49 AM
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Re: God doesn't exist, here's why. Quit wasting your time religiontards
...
It isn't possible for anything to exist, without a creator. All things have a point of creation, this is simple scientific fact.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 424213

Well, you just dug yourself a big hole because YOU claim that God had no point of creation. Who was God's creator? Did a magical man just suddenly show up in the sky? Was a magical man sitting up there and then suddenly he thought, "Hey, I'm bored, I think I'll create some stuff?" You logic is illogical. If it isn't possible for anything to exist without a creator, then who created the creator? Can you answer this?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814




We have begining and end in this reality. It's quite possible that in God's reality there is no beginning. It boggles your mind because you are equating some unkown to your reality and it's variables. Try again.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3978737


Once again, you are making the assumption that some God exists. If there is no God, your assumptions are silly and misleading. You say God has no beginning, just like I could say that the universe had no beginning. GOD IS AN UNKNOWN, no one knows if that concept exists or not. You are making the assumption that GOd exists without question. You need to start asking yourself some questions. And what God do YOU believe in? The Christian God, the Muslim God, because it makes a difference, you know?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


Phsyiciasts are looking for the god particle because there is some substance below our ability to comprehend or identify that something that makes up everythign we see. I belevie that this substance is intelligent because the sum of it's parts (us, nature, etc) show intelligent design and functionality. The whole equals it's underlying parts. That's the entirity of a logical argumet to support some intelligence which is behind this matrix. You don't need to belive in anything of the sort to live here - I agree. It's not necessary at all. However, most of the esoteric teachings (including Christianity) say that a belief and a reverence in this intelligence is actually useful here. You can choose to go on being just an animal that has rational thought - that existence is prevelant. The opposite is actually something that's not.
BOWMAN

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08/29/2012 10:49 AM

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Re: God doesn't exist, here's why. Quit wasting your time religiontards
"My own suspicion is that the Universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we CAN suppose." ~ J. B. S. Haldane

[link to en.m.wikiquote.org]

A little food for thought for those who feel that humanity, which from afar behaves like a tiny parasite upon its host world, has somehow figured it all out through strictly 'scientific' means.


------
 Quoting: BOWMAN




Scientists are kicking butt with what they do, slowly unlocking the so called secrets of the earth, if the earth is giving them up, then they were perhaps never intended to be secrets?

Religions believe they have it all figured out.

So, where are the mysteries?
Where is the complexity?

There doesn't seem to be any.
 Quoting: vexed 22814377


You can start with your own consciousness.

It is as mysterious and unquantifyable as God is.

It's funny you ask 'Where is the complexity' as we post on a Global communication system that GROWS larger by the second.

ntrnttmln


------

Last Edited by halman on 08/29/2012 10:50 AM
"And I understood that in an age where there was so much ego, because of the camera, that it was very important to look for that kind of player, ... I began to look for the kind of player that doesn't need his ego fed by stardom, but will do what he's supposed to do because he knows the game and loves the game, and will do the job the right way even if someone else gets the glory." ~ Bill Belichick

H&W P401 Recip./Parson's Turbine Cold Start

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Make Good Pitches

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The Real You

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sunspotkiller

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Re: God doesn't exist, here's why. Quit wasting your time religiontards
Agree with OP
sunspotkiller

When you judge someone else, It doesn't define who they are, It defines who you are. Be love!

“Kind words do not cost much. Yet they accomplish much.”
Anonymous Coward
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Re: God doesn't exist, here's why. Quit wasting your time religiontards
You are the one with the small brain. Evolution is proven. .
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814
FAIL!!!
Anonymous Subscriber

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Re: God doesn't exist, here's why. Quit wasting your time religiontards
Is there any reason why existence has to exist?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16660428


Why do you keep asking me the same question over and over. You haven't explained at all the relevancy of your statement.
 Quoting: Anonymous Subscriber


Its a perfectly good question.

For something that is highly worshipped and revered all across the lands for generations and generations, it must have a purpose for its existence.

If you can't answer then say so.
 Quoting: vexed 22814377


The concept of God DOES have a purpose. People need God which is why there is all this arguing. No one wants to think they just die and rot in the ground, never to be seen again. Primitive men came up with this concept of God so they could control people by use of fear and reward. And God was originally the sun. Those people worshiped the sun because it was the light of the world, it gave life to all things, without it there would be nothing. So God is still the sun today, only most people don't understand that. This is why the concept of God is still around. People WANT to believe in that concept. That is the purpose of it. It gives these people hope but it is still better to deal in with reality, I think.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


Yes indeed. People also needs the concept of God to protect them from injustice. They need Batman. They need Judge Dredd. They need God.

Which one comes first? God or men?
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Re: God doesn't exist, here's why. Quit wasting your time religiontards
Is there any reason why existence has to exist?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16660428


Why do you keep asking me the same question over and over. You haven't explained at all the relevancy of your statement.
 Quoting: Anonymous Subscriber


I did. I argued an equivalency between the concepts of "God" and "existence". The two concepts are just words, right? Now, I could have taken that further and suggested that "existence" has some sort of personalism to it, but I didn't go that far. I just stuck with the OP's terms of omnipotence, omnipresence and omniscience and I explained what I meant. No one has refuted that except to say, "I reject your terms." Well, hey, that's not an argument.

Relevancy was then the question, "can existence not exist?" and because I was equivocating, I was in essence asking "can God not exist?". If "God" is "existence" it is not possible for God to not exist? God could be existence, think about it.

"Existence" is a very subtle concept and most take it for granted that they know what it is. It takes deep contemplation to maybe grasp it, and even then you cannot hold it (very much like the idea of "wisdom").
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16660428


I don't get what you are saying here. We are talking about God, who is supposedly the creator of the world, and you are talking about the concept of existence and trying to put the two words together. WHY? It makes no sense. We exist, a cockroach exists, a worm exists, etc. What does that word (existence) have to do with God??? The OP was telling us that the concept of GOD is flawed because he is supposed to have unlimited power, unlimited knowledge, etc. He explained, very well, I might add, that God does not exist by using the terms omnipotent, omnipresent, etc. This has nothing to do with our existence on earth. We very well could have been created by evolution, and thus, existence is irrelevant. Am I seeing this incorrectly?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


A couple of points:

The OP talked about "God", which is just another word / pattern / concept for a bunch of other words / patterns / concepts that are interchangeable and get you no closer to what might be true.

It's difficult to get at this, but if you start from an impossible position that you yourself don't exist, you start to get a sense of it.
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...


I will give you one last reply and then I have to go take care of my dogs. My dogs don't believe in God, by the way. They are not "religious" animals" anymore. They used to go to church every Sunday. They prayed to their doggie God and gave him half a cup of kibbles and bits so he would love them. But the doggie God never answered their prayers and the dog food went to other dogs. No God ever came down from heaven to get it. So they quit being religious. Of course, some would still say they practice a religion but they just chuckle at that. LOL

You ask me to define "GOD?" How can I define GOD when I don't BELIEVE IN GOD?? If I said I believe in unicorns, would you ask me to define a unicorn?? REALLY? If you believe that God is existence, then fine? I think this is really stupid because you have EVIDENCE in the form of evolution that explains, in the best way humanly possible, that we evolved to the point where we are today. You ask me if existance does not exist? Are you serious? This question has absolutely nothing to do with the EXISTENCE of some God. Of course, I exist, my dogs exist. If you think some God is responsible for your existence, then you are not an agnostic. You believe in some God, though I don't know which one, at this point. Do tell???

I will explain, once again, that I do not believe in ANY Gods. I don't have to give you a detailed explanation of what I don't believe in. I don't think the Muslim God, the Christian God, the Jehovah's Witness God, the Mormon God, the Hindu Gods, etc. are real. I think these fables are all man-made. ALL OF THEM. I pick on Christianity most, probably because I used to be a brainwashed Christian myself. So I reject your definition and terms for Gods because I don't think they exist. Can it get any clearer than that?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


Well that was a much better response, without all the name calling and strawmen of before. I like your story about the dogs, but are you sure they don't believe in God? Did they tell you? Perhaps they have now adopted a personal disposition, based on their experience, that their is no Dog. Perhaps their own personal experience is too limited to address the question for all dogs, but they'll stick to their new belief that there is no Dog in heaven.

I am asking you to define what CONCEPT of God it is that you don't believe in. Is it just the strawmen concepts of the previous posts that you don't believe in or any concept of any type of god whatsoever? How about pure intelligence? How about existence itself? Life perhaps?

You don't believe in unicorns, OK. But if we define a unicorn as any animal with one horn on its head, that definition could include a Rhino. Rhino's exist, right. So according to one definition of "unicorn", unicorn's exist.

You are using the concept / term "God" as though everyone understands what you mean by that. I don't know what you mean when you say God does not exist.

The OP pointed out three attributes of the God concept. Those could apply to something like the concept of existence itself (as I pointed out in ealier posts).
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16660428

Okay, thanks a lot. My dogs are being neglected because of you. They are taking this pretty well. They probably have to pee and poop and they need food but, here I am, arguing with someone about something that doesn't exist. Makes a lot of sense to them, I'll bet. No, I don't know what my dogs are thinking but I AM THINKING there should be no term for what we call "GOD." I could say that Allah doesn't exist or I could say that Xenu (the Scientology God) doesn't exist and it would be the same thing for an atheist. The concept of God is pretty well known. I am using the term "GOD" to explain what most of humanity refers to when they talk about "GOD." But the reality is that there should be no term for something that is so vague, like God is.

God as the creator of all life. That is the GOd that I am talking about. It doesn't really matter to me if a person practices Christianity or Scientology. The thing I am arguing AGAINST is the concept that there is something larger, greater, than us, that had a hand in our creation. That could even be some alien intelligence. I don't believe in that either, BUT, if it was proved to me differently, then I WOULD believe.

Now, if some man who called himself God came down to earth and did miracles, would I instantly become religious? No, I would still be skeptical. I would think someone was playing a trick on me. So my beliefs are based on reality. I believe in things that are rational and that make sense. I do not believe in any concept like God until it is proven to me...beyond doubt.

As far as existence, I think we got here by evolution because evolution is real. Scientists (who are much more intelligent than I am) have proven this TO THEMSELVES. In fact, most all scientists are atheists because they see no reason to believe in some creator. Maybe I still am not answering your questions, but what do you believe? Like the other poster asked, Do you believe in God? Do you care? You can't argue with someone if they don't tell you what THEY believe. So who is God to you? Define him.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


LOL. I'm sure your dogs will survive.

Thanks for making it clear what you mean. Is there another version of God (ie, not the traditional creator form) that could exist for you? What about all life collectively?

Surely you can think of something larger and greater than YOU that had a hand in your creation - or did you conceive, gestate, birth and raise yourself?

What about gravity, what about sunlight? Without these there could be no life on earth. Surely you would consider those larger and greater than us mere humans?

I contend that a sustained and deep enquiry into one's own nature will ultimately yield up the truth...and that truth is beyond belief!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16660428


So why don't you spill this secret that you are withholding from us? What is this truth? And if you tell me, I will tell you that I will be skeptical until you would PROVE to me that you are correct. Gravity is a theory that has been proven...like evolution, by the way. Without sunlight and gravity, there would be no life. This is a no brainer. I did not conceive by myself. My mother and father had sex, another no brainer. Why are you asking these stupid questions? They really do lead me nowhere.

I have done a deep and sustained enquiry on how I came to be. I used to be a Christian. I believed in God/Jesus, all of it. But because I studied, I came to find that evolution answered every single one of the questions that plagued me when I was a Christian. If you believe in a non-traditional creator form, then please do tell. You can't just pretend like you found some wonderful secret that we could all find if we just studied hard enough. Chances are very good that the secret YOU found is just your own personal opinion about things, and that is worthless, according to me.
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Re: God doesn't exist, here's why. Quit wasting your time religiontards
You are the one with the small brain. You are desperately clinging to this concept of God while You say stupid things to support your belief in some creator. Chances are VERY GOOD, that there is no creator. Grow up.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814
All things that exist have a point of creation, and nothing that exists, is ever created from or by nothing, please prove me wrong.
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...


Why do you keep asking me the same question over and over. You haven't explained at all the relevancy of your statement.
 Quoting: Anonymous Subscriber


I did. I argued an equivalency between the concepts of "God" and "existence". The two concepts are just words, right? Now, I could have taken that further and suggested that "existence" has some sort of personalism to it, but I didn't go that far. I just stuck with the OP's terms of omnipotence, omnipresence and omniscience and I explained what I meant. No one has refuted that except to say, "I reject your terms." Well, hey, that's not an argument.

Relevancy was then the question, "can existence not exist?" and because I was equivocating, I was in essence asking "can God not exist?". If "God" is "existence" it is not possible for God to not exist? God could be existence, think about it.

"Existence" is a very subtle concept and most take it for granted that they know what it is. It takes deep contemplation to maybe grasp it, and even then you cannot hold it (very much like the idea of "wisdom").
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16660428

How can "existence" be omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent? What do you call by existence? Do you name your God "existence"?
 Quoting: Anonymous Subscriber


I posted this, but it was a way back when there was much emotion in the thread:

omniscient: can there be any knowing or known thing outside of existence. All knowledge then is in existence. There is no knowledge that is not in existence.

omnipresent: everything present is in existence. Nothing not present can exist.

omnipotent: nothing has the power to exist outside of existence. Nothing overpowers existence, such that it could exist outside of existence. Ergo, existence is all powerful.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16660428


The prefix OMNI in means all or every, so for example omnipotent means can do everything, can create everything. Can "existence" do that? You who exist, can you create me a faster-than-light space ship?
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Re: God doesn't exist, here's why. Quit wasting your time religiontards
...


Why do you keep asking me the same question over and over. You haven't explained at all the relevancy of your statement.
 Quoting: Anonymous Subscriber


I did. I argued an equivalency between the concepts of "God" and "existence". The two concepts are just words, right? Now, I could have taken that further and suggested that "existence" has some sort of personalism to it, but I didn't go that far. I just stuck with the OP's terms of omnipotence, omnipresence and omniscience and I explained what I meant. No one has refuted that except to say, "I reject your terms." Well, hey, that's not an argument.

Relevancy was then the question, "can existence not exist?" and because I was equivocating, I was in essence asking "can God not exist?". If "God" is "existence" it is not possible for God to not exist? God could be existence, think about it.

"Existence" is a very subtle concept and most take it for granted that they know what it is. It takes deep contemplation to maybe grasp it, and even then you cannot hold it (very much like the idea of "wisdom").
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16660428


I don't get what you are saying here. We are talking about God, who is supposedly the creator of the world, and you are talking about the concept of existence and trying to put the two words together. WHY? It makes no sense. We exist, a cockroach exists, a worm exists, etc. What does that word (existence) have to do with God??? The OP was telling us that the concept of GOD is flawed because he is supposed to have unlimited power, unlimited knowledge, etc. He explained, very well, I might add, that God does not exist by using the terms omnipotent, omnipresent, etc. This has nothing to do with our existence on earth. We very well could have been created by evolution, and thus, existence is irrelevant. Am I seeing this incorrectly?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


A couple of points:

The OP talked about "God", which is just another word / pattern / concept for a bunch of other words / patterns / concepts that are interchangeable and get you no closer to what might be true.

It's difficult to get at this, but if you start from an impossible position that you yourself don't exist, you start to get a sense of it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16660428

Yes, I have actually heard of this concept that "I" don't exist. I am actually just some character in the mind of some great creator. Or maybe I am the creator myself. I made this all up. This is just some kind of nightmare/dream that I am finding myself in until I make a choice. Until I make a choice, I will continue in this realm. I can't honestly get the general sense of what you mean until you spill it out for me.

You see, that concept about not knowing what is going on in the head of my dogs is correct. Maybe they are thinking I am a shmuck for leaving them for so long while wasting my time on the computer. Silly humans!!! I don't know what YOU are thinking either. You don't know what I am thinking. Maybe I am a Christian and maybe I am just pulling your leg here. How would you know? So if you spell it out for me, EXACTLY what you believe, I can BEGIN to understand...but maybe I can't get into your actual brain, your subconscious, to know what you really mean. Maybe YOU don't even know what your subconscious is telling you to write. It gets complicated.
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How can "existence" be omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent? What do you call by existence? Do you name your God "existence"?
 Quoting: Anonymous Subscriber
It isn't possible for anything to exist, without a creator. All things have a point of creation, this is simple scientific fact.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 424213


So if God exists (if he is a thing) he also has a point of creation, according to your reasoning here?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16660428


According to scripture the point of creation is relationship. Same reason many parents have babies.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3978737


So if God has no creator, he has no existence and is "no thing".

Or we could say instead that God = Existence. Existence has no creator, it just is and is the reason that every "thing" is in existence (true).
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08/29/2012 11:00 AM
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Re: God doesn't exist, here's why. Quit wasting your time religiontards
You are the one with the small brain. You are desperately clinging to this concept of God while You say stupid things to support your belief in some creator. Chances are VERY GOOD, that there is no creator. Grow up.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814
All things that exist have a point of creation, and nothing that exists, is ever created from or by nothing, please prove me wrong.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 424213


It is a circular argument, once again. Then if everything that exists was created....something HAD to have created God. Isn't it much easier to believe that the universe always existed and it is expanding today than to believe that some man in the sky created everything?? Come on. You can't be this brainwashed.
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Re: God doesn't exist, here's why. Quit wasting your time religiontards
:cells:

The presence of electrical flow in our bodies is the presence of life.

When electrical flow ceases, we are dead.

Each of our individual cells has contained within them a tiny spark of electrical flow along with a magnetic field.

Each cell is therefor it's own living unit.

Our planet, considered by some to be one living entity made up of many smaller living units, has electrical flow and a magnetic field.

Our Sun has a measure of electrical flow and a magnetic field.

Our galaxy...

Our Universe...

etc...

:universe:

Pattern recognition. thumbs

It's a BIG IDEA. sun


------
 Quoting: BOWMAN



Yes, but you cannot put electrical flow back into a dead body and make it live. You just cook it that way.

The electrical flow has a substrate of existence ("God").
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Re: God doesn't exist, here's why. Quit wasting your time religiontards
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How can "existence" be omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent? What do you call by existence? Do you name your God "existence"?
 Quoting: Anonymous Subscriber
It isn't possible for anything to exist, without a creator. All things have a point of creation, this is simple scientific fact.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 424213

Well, you just dug yourself a big hole because YOU claim that God had no point of creation. Who was God's creator? Did a magical man just suddenly show up in the sky? Was a magical man sitting up there and then suddenly he thought, "Hey, I'm bored, I think I'll create some stuff?" You logic is illogical. If it isn't possible for anything to exist without a creator, then who created the creator? Can you answer this?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814




We have begining and end in this reality. It's quite possible that in God's reality there is no beginning. It boggles your mind because you are equating some unkown to your reality and it's variables. Try again.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3978737


If you accept that all things do not necessarily have a point of creation, then you can as well adopt scientist's view of the universe.
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Re: God doesn't exist, here's why. Quit wasting your time religiontards
...
It isn't possible for anything to exist, without a creator. All things have a point of creation, this is simple scientific fact.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 424213


So if God exists (if he is a thing) he also has a point of creation, according to your reasoning here?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16660428


According to scripture the point of creation is relationship. Same reason many parents have babies.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3978737


So if God has no creator, he has no existence and is "no thing".

Or we could say instead that God = Existence. Existence has no creator, it just is and is the reason that every "thing" is in existence (true).
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16660428


But why bring the concept of God into play in the first place. Maybe this universe just IS, just like you would say God just IS. If you say existence just is, it has no creator, then there is no reason to bring this word (God) into play. It is irrelevant. RIght?
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08/29/2012 11:04 AM

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Re: God doesn't exist, here's why. Quit wasting your time religiontards
cells

The presence of electrical flow in our bodies is the presence of life.

When electrical flow ceases, we are dead.

Each of our individual cells has contained within them a tiny spark of electrical flow along with a magnetic field.

Each cell is therefor it's own living unit.

Our planet, considered by some to be one living entity made up of many smaller living units, has electrical flow and a magnetic field.

Our Sun has a measure of electrical flow and a magnetic field.

Our galaxy...

Our Universe...

etc...

universe

Pattern recognition. thumbs

It's a BIG IDEA. sun


------
 Quoting: BOWMAN



Yes, but you cannot put electrical flow back into a dead body and make it live. You just cook it that way.

The electrical flow has a substrate of existence ("God").
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16660428


Quite right and we also cannot assume that the 'electrical flow' is not existing somewhere else after it has left the body.


------
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