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WORLD at WAR, Official 2012 Thread (TO BE CONTINUED) Israel, Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, PA, Egypt, Libya, Pakistan, North Korea, Russia, China, U.S.

 
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Re: WORLD at WAR, Official 2012 Thread (TO BE CONTINUED) Israel, Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, PA, Egypt, Libya, Pakistan, North Korea, Russia, China, U.S.
...


Then how do you explain the 2006 Lebanon War if Israeli military is so amazingly smart and equipped?

(Mind you, unlike most Jew-hating morons, I do NOT think 2006 was a disaster for IDF, maybe for Leftist sell-outs like Livni, Amir Peretz and Olmert.... in fact the timing of that war couldn't have been more fortuitous for Israel in terms of it being a big reality check --- not to mention it discredited Kadima enough so that Likud could come to power eventually..... but I digress)

Look Gerry, I may be just a kid but I am not a stupid kid, if that makes any sense. I know it's FAR more complicated.

I am also clearly pro-Israel. However, am not a kool-aid drinker -- certainly not when it comes to taking out Iran's well-disprsed and defended nuclear program.

Another thing you have to remember: Persians may indeed be suprisingly smart, but Islamist leaders are NOT rational. They are quite literally, certifiably INSANE. If need be, they WILL sacrifice their people and half-the world for Mahdi. Ruhollah Khomeini had no problems sending little kids to clear minefields, throwing them under Iraq tank treads and against Iraqi machine-gun positions for years. Ayatollah Rafsanjani, too, said "then may Iran burn" when talking about destruction of the West. We all know the vile stuff that Ali Khamenei, speaker Ali Laringani and of course Dinnerjacket openly admit to.

So the power of the Aircraft-carrier may be huge, but when it's hit by several Sunburn and Yakhont missiles, it WILL go down.... and Ali Khamenei on his death-bed won't care if America bombs a few token sites in retaliation.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23290723


I'll answer your first question...Quite simply, it was political correctness, not wanting to blow the shit out of the Lebanese citizenry where the rocket batteries were located utilizing human shields. Their ultimate survival did not depend on winning what I would call a skirmish.
 Quoting: Gerry52


A "skirmish", huh?

That skirmish cast Israel economy estimated 5 billion dollars.

Not to mention the intangibles, more longer-term losses that are harder to calculate: the damaged image of the Merkava program, even though those older tanks were sent into suicide missins into fortified wooded/mountanous areas, into massive mine-traps & veritable valleys of Kornets and Metis-M.

Likewise, the impotence of the game IAF was also scrutinized closely by Israel's friends and foes alike. Reportedly even George W. Bush was pissed that Israel started something that it couldn't finish. No wonder, just 1-2 short years Dubya refused to support/supply Israel's plans to strike Iran's nuke facilities --- reasoning being that he was not going to risk what was left of his legacy and his party's re-election chances on IDF that couldn't even handle a few Hezbollah thugs...

That skirmish was seen around the world, in particular in the Islamic world, as a great victory. Huge deterrence fail. For instance, if I am Iran circa 2006 watching that Olmert Debacle and I am on the fence whether or not to take risk in expanding nuclear program development, I am laughing my ass off and giving the greenlight to IRGC.

Look at how much more armed Hezbollah is today compared with 2006 -- which is yet another reason why the decision to delay Iran strike was likely taken, IMO. Israel commanders talk the talk, but you can tell thay they are worried or downright scared.

And they should be. Look, I know you'll say how Israel has access to computers and simulators and experts... but do you think "gaming" Iran is enough? The actual war is something else entirely. Which is why most former and some current IDF bosses are vociferously against the strike. Yes, in part they're probably under severe pressure from Washington and Brussels. But I am sure that's not it -- they're scared they wouldn't be able to handle it or its aftermath.

And, again, even if Israel has wunderwaffe like non-nuclear EMP and Super-Stuxnet cyber weapon.... is it really all that wise to **waste** such secret technology on Iran?

Afterall, there are forces more dangerous to Israel than Iran. (See: Pakistan selling nukes to Saudis, Egypt, Turkey, Jordan, and so on).
 Quoting: Baroness Ashtron's big o 9143314


I think Israel learned a huge lesson from Lebanon...PC has no place in war if you want to win...
 Quoting: Gerry52


Mr. Gerry52, you always warn us to not accept easy answars or assumptions. So I try not to, which is why I say this: it's real easy/lazy to blame everything on PC.

Just off the top of my head, I think 2006 exposed severa; troubling aspects:

1. IDF commanders, experts and specialists are terribly OVERRATED.

2. Arabs and Islamists in general are becoming SMARTER thann in 60s and 70s -- because their kids have studied in top Western universities; they have lots of rich Jihad-sympathizers all over the world willing to sustain them through large donations; they too have grown up with Internet, cell phones & fancy computer gadgets like their Israeli counter-parts. It's manifesting itself in lots of things -- from ever-more sophisticated and deadly IED as even the mighty US has had a chance to experience to prolifiration of all kinds of weaponry, including presumably WMD and pportable North-Korea designed EMP.

2. Israel is a slave to world-community. To wishes and whims of Washigton DC and Brussels in particular. It's not just PC. It goes beyond that, unfortunately: the one half of Israeli leadership seems to have sold out to foreign control; the other half -- were simply bullied or scared into submission & compliance. Often times Israel acts like it knows that if it steps one step out of line it's going to be economically strangled with BDS, or arrested and sent to Hague as soon as they step on foreign soil. And this perceived noose is getting tighter, regardless of the actual military lessons that may or may not have been learned from 2006. As someone else mentioned, wars are NO LONGER FOUGHT EXCULUSIVELY ON BATTLEFIELD -- and nowhere it is apparent as in Israel.
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Re: WORLD at WAR, Official 2012 Thread (TO BE CONTINUED) Israel, Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, PA, Egypt, Libya, Pakistan, North Korea, Russia, China, U.S.
I think Israel learned a huge lesson from Lebanon...PC has no place in war if you want to win...
 Quoting: Gerry52


That is true, and that is exactly what I think they didn't learn.

In either case, since 2006, I have a bad feeling, if the mission is not a border defense mission.

The IDF did a good job in 2006, but the "decision" establishment failed.

Did they learn ? I don't know up to the point, that I have doubts.
 Quoting: ^àTOn^


I don't know for sure either. All we can hope is that they did. It is very hard for politicians to throw public opinion to the wind and just go for it. For most of them it goes against their grain, which is to be liked. However, if they want a country to govern, they better go balls to the walls this time or they are going to be out of a job...and that would be their best scenario, the alternative is very final.
 Quoting: Gerry52


I only see how they handle gaza: Israel accepts that Hamaz and others send missiles.
The reponse is always some pinpoint strikes.

Sinai: Israel accepts that there are terrorist attacks, the answer is diplomacy and defensive action.

The only border, the lebanon border, where that happened, they went there and kicked ass. And since then it is quiet.

My 5 pences are: if you do not let yourself accept the "little" aggressions "on an acceptable daily basis", you have a bigger chance to not face the big one.
But thats just my 5 pences.
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Re: WORLD at WAR, Official 2012 Thread (TO BE CONTINUED) Israel, Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, PA, Egypt, Libya, Pakistan, North Korea, Russia, China, U.S.
Mr. Gerry52, you always warn us to not accept easy answars or assumptions. So I try not to, which is why I say this: it's real easy/lazy to blame everything on PC.

Just off the top of my head, I think 2006 exposed severa; troubling aspects:

1. IDF commanders, experts and specialists are terribly OVERRATED.

2. Arabs and Islamists in general are becoming SMARTER thann in 60s and 70s -- because their kids have studied in top Western universities; they have lots of rich Jihad-sympathizers all over the world willing to sustain them through large donations; they too have grown up with Internet, cell phones & fancy computer gadgets like their Israeli counter-parts. It's manifesting itself in lots of things -- from ever-more sophisticated and deadly IED as even the mighty US has had a chance to experience to prolifiration of all kinds of weaponry, including presumably WMD and pportable North-Korea designed EMP.

2. Israel is a slave to world-community. To wishes and whims of Washigton DC and Brussels in particular. It's not just PC. It goes beyond that, unfortunately: the one half of Israeli leadership seems to have sold out to foreign control; the other half -- were simply bullied or scared into submission & compliance. Often times Israel acts like it knows that if it steps one step out of line it's going to be economically strangled with BDS, or arrested and sent to Hague as soon as they step on foreign soil. And this perceived noose is getting tighter, regardless of the actual military lessons that may or may not have been learned from 2006. As someone else mentioned, wars are NO LONGER FOUGHT EXCULUSIVELY ON BATTLEFIELD -- and nowhere it is apparent as in Israel.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9143314


Thats what I said earlier on, which was apparently misunderstood, that Israel needs to have a marketing expert.

Somebody capable to show, and hold against the steady intake from arab propaganda.

Why not have reports of arabs in Israel living there and being happy ?
Anonymous Coward
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09/06/2012 05:26 PM
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Re: WORLD at WAR, Official 2012 Thread (TO BE CONTINUED) Israel, Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, PA, Egypt, Libya, Pakistan, North Korea, Russia, China, U.S.
I only see how they handle gaza: Israel accepts that Hamaz and others send missiles.
The reponse is always some pinpoint strikes.

Sinai: Israel accepts that there are terrorist attacks, the answer is diplomacy and defensive action.

The only border, the lebanon border, where that happened, they went there and kicked ass. And since then it is quiet.

My 5 pences are: if you do not let yourself accept the "little" aggressions "on an acceptable daily basis", you have a bigger chance to not face the big one.
But thats just my 5 pences.
 Quoting: ^àTOn^


Thats what I said earlier on, which was apparently misunderstood, that Israel needs to have a marketing expert.

Somebody capable to show, and hold against the steady intake from arab propaganda.

Why not have reports of arabs in Israel living there and being happy ?
 Quoting: ^àTOn^


Sorry for quoting me two time in the same thread, but there is one point of interaction:

No country on this earth, no one, and very sure not the US and neither britain and 100% sure not my country where I live in, would accept that daily aggression.

But all world over accepts, that this aggression is normal in Israel.
Thats what needs to change.

hf
DblTapViper

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09/06/2012 05:35 PM
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Re: WORLD at WAR, Official 2012 Thread (TO BE CONTINUED) Israel, Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, PA, Egypt, Libya, Pakistan, North Korea, Russia, China, U.S.
apparently DL has a thread stating that oil from the strategic reserve is going to be released....not sure how tha applies here but you never know.

this thread is doorberts for anyone interested.
Thread: JUST-IN: US about to Release Oil from Strategic Reserves
 Quoting: godzilla85


Maybe Obama is afraid Israel is about to do something and wants that oil flowing. I believe it may be to late to change the results of the election based on the price of oil ( if it was 1.50 a gal for gas that may do something... but..), but I doubt they know that. The Bradley effect is the real deal, I beleive, this time around.....

Lets all pray for the Bradley Effect.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]
DblTapViper
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09/06/2012 05:39 PM
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Re: WORLD at WAR, Official 2012 Thread (TO BE CONTINUED) Israel, Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, PA, Egypt, Libya, Pakistan, North Korea, Russia, China, U.S.
Mr. Gerry52, you always warn us to not accept easy answars or assumptions. So I try not to, which is why I say this: it's real easy/lazy to blame everything on PC.

Just off the top of my head, I think 2006 exposed severa; troubling aspects:

1. IDF commanders, experts and specialists are terribly OVERRATED.

2. Arabs and Islamists in general are becoming SMARTER thann in 60s and 70s -- because their kids have studied in top Western universities; they have lots of rich Jihad-sympathizers all over the world willing to sustain them through large donations; they too have grown up with Internet, cell phones & fancy computer gadgets like their Israeli counter-parts. It's manifesting itself in lots of things -- from ever-more sophisticated and deadly IED as even the mighty US has had a chance to experience to prolifiration of all kinds of weaponry, including presumably WMD and pportable North-Korea designed EMP.

2. Israel is a slave to world-community. To wishes and whims of Washigton DC and Brussels in particular. It's not just PC. It goes beyond that, unfortunately: the one half of Israeli leadership seems to have sold out to foreign control; the other half -- were simply bullied or scared into submission & compliance. Often times Israel acts like it knows that if it steps one step out of line it's going to be economically strangled with BDS, or arrested and sent to Hague as soon as they step on foreign soil. And this perceived noose is getting tighter, regardless of the actual military lessons that may or may not have been learned from 2006. As someone else mentioned, wars are NO LONGER FOUGHT EXCULUSIVELY ON BATTLEFIELD -- and nowhere it is apparent as in Israel.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9143314


You should get an avatar and join the comunity. You have arguments, and you know how to put them.

hf

Quote you:
"wars are NO LONGER FOUGHT EXCULUSIVELY ON BATTLEFIELD
End of quote

That is true, a very successfull first attack on Iran, with all objectives achieved and everybody is ready to go back home, mission accomplished, could turn out to be a disaster afterwards.
Anonymous Coward
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09/06/2012 05:41 PM
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Re: WORLD at WAR, Official 2012 Thread (TO BE CONTINUED) Israel, Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, PA, Egypt, Libya, Pakistan, North Korea, Russia, China, U.S.
apparently DL has a thread stating that oil from the strategic reserve is going to be released....not sure how tha applies here but you never know.

this thread is doorberts for anyone interested.
Thread: JUST-IN: US about to Release Oil from Strategic Reserves
 Quoting: godzilla85


Maybe Obama is afraid Israel is about to do something and wants that oil flowing. I believe it may be to late to change the results of the election based on the price of oil ( if it was 1.50 a gal for gas that may do something... but..), but I doubt they know that. The Bradley effect is the real deal, I beleive, this time around.....

Lets all pray for the Bradley Effect.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]
 Quoting: DblTapViper


Thats interesting, strategic oil reserves are tapped on in times of crises:
1) war
2) prices too high

I don't read db threads no more. But that is interesting.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: WORLD at WAR, Official 2012 Thread (TO BE CONTINUED) Israel, Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, PA, Egypt, Libya, Pakistan, North Korea, Russia, China, U.S.
apparently DL has a thread stating that oil from the strategic reserve is going to be released....not sure how tha applies here but you never know.

this thread is doorberts for anyone interested.
Thread: JUST-IN: US about to Release Oil from Strategic Reserves
 Quoting: godzilla85


Maybe Obama is afraid Israel is about to do something and wants that oil flowing. I believe it may be to late to change the results of the election based on the price of oil ( if it was 1.50 a gal for gas that may do something... but..), but I doubt they know that. The Bradley effect is the real deal, I beleive, this time around.....

Lets all pray for the Bradley Effect.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]
 Quoting: DblTapViper


Thats interesting, strategic oil reserves are tapped on in times of crises:
1) war
2) prices too high

I don't read db threads no more. But that is interesting.
 Quoting: ^àTOn^


oil price is definetly not too high:

[link to www.oil-price.net]
Anonymous Coward
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09/06/2012 05:49 PM
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Re: WORLD at WAR, Official 2012 Thread (TO BE CONTINUED) Israel, Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, PA, Egypt, Libya, Pakistan, North Korea, Russia, China, U.S.
apparently DL has a thread stating that oil from the strategic reserve is going to be released....not sure how tha applies here but you never know.

this thread is doorberts for anyone interested.
Thread: JUST-IN: US about to Release Oil from Strategic Reserves
 Quoting: godzilla85


Maybe Obama is afraid Israel is about to do something and wants that oil flowing. I believe it may be to late to change the results of the election based on the price of oil ( if it was 1.50 a gal for gas that may do something... but..), but I doubt they know that. The Bradley effect is the real deal, I beleive, this time around.....

Lets all pray for the Bradley Effect.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]
 Quoting: DblTapViper


Thats interesting, strategic oil reserves are tapped on in times of crises:
1) war
2) prices too high

I don't read db threads no more. But that is interesting.
 Quoting: ^àTOn^


oil price is definetly not too high:

[link to www.oil-price.net]
 Quoting: ^àTOn^


but db as always, or at least 90 % of the time, highligts some headlines and pretends they are news or in correlation with something.

Here he didn't even posted a link .....

BS. I say.
baroness Ashton's big O
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09/06/2012 05:56 PM
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Re: WORLD at WAR, Official 2012 Thread (TO BE CONTINUED) Israel, Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, PA, Egypt, Libya, Pakistan, North Korea, Russia, China, U.S.
Mr. Gerry52, you always warn us to not accept easy answars or assumptions. So I try not to, which is why I say this: it's real easy/lazy to blame everything on PC.

Just off the top of my head, I think 2006 exposed severa; troubling aspects:

1. IDF commanders, experts and specialists are terribly OVERRATED.

2. Arabs and Islamists in general are becoming SMARTER thann in 60s and 70s -- because their kids have studied in top Western universities; they have lots of rich Jihad-sympathizers all over the world willing to sustain them through large donations; they too have grown up with Internet, cell phones & fancy computer gadgets like their Israeli counter-parts. It's manifesting itself in lots of things -- from ever-more sophisticated and deadly IED as even the mighty US has had a chance to experience to prolifiration of all kinds of weaponry, including presumably WMD and pportable North-Korea designed EMP.

2. Israel is a slave to world-community. To wishes and whims of Washigton DC and Brussels in particular. It's not just PC. It goes beyond that, unfortunately: the one half of Israeli leadership seems to have sold out to foreign control; the other half -- were simply bullied or scared into submission & compliance. Often times Israel acts like it knows that if it steps one step out of line it's going to be economically strangled with BDS, or arrested and sent to Hague as soon as they step on foreign soil. And this perceived noose is getting tighter, regardless of the actual military lessons that may or may not have been learned from 2006. As someone else mentioned, wars are NO LONGER FOUGHT EXCULUSIVELY ON BATTLEFIELD -- and nowhere it is apparent as in Israel.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9143314


You should get an avatar and join the comunity. You have arguments, and you know how to put them.

hf

 Quoting: ^àTOn^


Why?

So you can yell more profanities at me in broken French?

No thank you.

Respectfully,

The Kid
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09/06/2012 06:02 PM
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Re: WORLD at WAR, Official 2012 Thread (TO BE CONTINUED) Israel, Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, PA, Egypt, Libya, Pakistan, North Korea, Russia, China, U.S.
Chemical weapon dispersal by Syria.
[link to www.ynetnews.com]
Anonymous Coward
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09/06/2012 06:05 PM
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Re: WORLD at WAR, Official 2012 Thread (TO BE CONTINUED) Israel, Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, PA, Egypt, Libya, Pakistan, North Korea, Russia, China, U.S.
And Irans activities in assisting Syria.
[link to www.ynetnews.com]
Anonymous Coward
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09/06/2012 06:10 PM
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Re: WORLD at WAR, Official 2012 Thread (TO BE CONTINUED) Israel, Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, PA, Egypt, Libya, Pakistan, North Korea, Russia, China, U.S.
Chemical weapon dispersal by Syria.
[link to www.ynetnews.com]
 Quoting: MIL MAN


The more they are dispersed, the harder it is for the "loyal" troops to protect them.

Great chance that in that chaos in Syria, the annual inventory might show a deficit on accounting side.

The question is, can they handle, store, and maintain these kind of weapons ? And can they do this without being detected ?
Gerry52

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09/06/2012 06:11 PM
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Re: WORLD at WAR, Official 2012 Thread (TO BE CONTINUED) Israel, Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, PA, Egypt, Libya, Pakistan, North Korea, Russia, China, U.S.
...


I'll answer your first question...Quite simply, it was political correctness, not wanting to blow the shit out of the Lebanese citizenry where the rocket batteries were located utilizing human shields. Their ultimate survival did not depend on winning what I would call a skirmish.
 Quoting: Gerry52


A "skirmish", huh?

That skirmish cast Israel economy estimated 5 billion dollars.

Not to mention the intangibles, more longer-term losses that are harder to calculate: the damaged image of the Merkava program, even though those older tanks were sent into suicide missins into fortified wooded/mountanous areas, into massive mine-traps & veritable valleys of Kornets and Metis-M.

Likewise, the impotence of the game IAF was also scrutinized closely by Israel's friends and foes alike. Reportedly even George W. Bush was pissed that Israel started something that it couldn't finish. No wonder, just 1-2 short years Dubya refused to support/supply Israel's plans to strike Iran's nuke facilities --- reasoning being that he was not going to risk what was left of his legacy and his party's re-election chances on IDF that couldn't even handle a few Hezbollah thugs...

That skirmish was seen around the world, in particular in the Islamic world, as a great victory. Huge deterrence fail. For instance, if I am Iran circa 2006 watching that Olmert Debacle and I am on the fence whether or not to take risk in expanding nuclear program development, I am laughing my ass off and giving the greenlight to IRGC.

Look at how much more armed Hezbollah is today compared with 2006 -- which is yet another reason why the decision to delay Iran strike was likely taken, IMO. Israel commanders talk the talk, but you can tell thay they are worried or downright scared.

And they should be. Look, I know you'll say how Israel has access to computers and simulators and experts... but do you think "gaming" Iran is enough? The actual war is something else entirely. Which is why most former and some current IDF bosses are vociferously against the strike. Yes, in part they're probably under severe pressure from Washington and Brussels. But I am sure that's not it -- they're scared they wouldn't be able to handle it or its aftermath.

And, again, even if Israel has wunderwaffe like non-nuclear EMP and Super-Stuxnet cyber weapon.... is it really all that wise to **waste** such secret technology on Iran?

Afterall, there are forces more dangerous to Israel than Iran. (See: Pakistan selling nukes to Saudis, Egypt, Turkey, Jordan, and so on).
 Quoting: Baroness Ashtron's big o 9143314


I think Israel learned a huge lesson from Lebanon...PC has no place in war if you want to win...
 Quoting: Gerry52


Mr. Gerry52, you always warn us to not accept easy answars or assumptions. So I try not to, which is why I say this: it's real easy/lazy to blame everything on PC.

Just off the top of my head, I think 2006 exposed severa; troubling aspects:

1. IDF commanders, experts and specialists are terribly OVERRATED.

2. Arabs and Islamists in general are becoming SMARTER thann in 60s and 70s -- because their kids have studied in top Western universities; they have lots of rich Jihad-sympathizers all over the world willing to sustain them through large donations; they too have grown up with Internet, cell phones & fancy computer gadgets like their Israeli counter-parts. It's manifesting itself in lots of things -- from ever-more sophisticated and deadly IED as even the mighty US has had a chance to experience to prolifiration of all kinds of weaponry, including presumably WMD and pportable North-Korea designed EMP.

2. Israel is a slave to world-community. To wishes and whims of Washigton DC and Brussels in particular. It's not just PC. It goes beyond that, unfortunately: the one half of Israeli leadership seems to have sold out to foreign control; the other half -- were simply bullied or scared into submission & compliance. Often times Israel acts like it knows that if it steps one step out of line it's going to be economically strangled with BDS, or arrested and sent to Hague as soon as they step on foreign soil. And this perceived noose is getting tighter, regardless of the actual military lessons that may or may not have been learned from 2006. As someone else mentioned, wars are NO LONGER FOUGHT EXCULUSIVELY ON BATTLEFIELD -- and nowhere it is apparent as in Israel.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9143314


Please understand, I have to be very careful what I say or how I explain things as this is kind of what I am paid for. My boss will occasionally look at this thread if only to see what I have said. Rather than be misunderstood for those things I can not or will not say, maybe the best thing is to return to lurker status and say nothing...My initial interest in this thread was looking for differing points of view, not to argue. I'll just say your right, you win and leave it at that.
I know the voices aren't real, but man do they come up with some great ideas!
Semper Fi USMC
Very much an Occams Razor kind of guy.
Bridging the gap between "It can't happen to us" and "We're all going to die".
DblTapViper

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09/06/2012 06:14 PM
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Re: WORLD at WAR, Official 2012 Thread (TO BE CONTINUED) Israel, Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, PA, Egypt, Libya, Pakistan, North Korea, Russia, China, U.S.
2001 anthrax attacks

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

This thought has been in my head for years. Why don't we just take care of the problem with Iran? Do we WANT another North Korea, do we want another Pakistan, India, South Africa? Look how hard it was to get South Africa to give up it's nukes.

So back to the Anthrax Attacks, it's been my belief that it was a warning shot across to bow of America from, I think, Iraq. NO proof, no nothing. It was more like who had the most to lose after 9/11 and Iraq seem to fit the bill. So they put a little anthrax in the mail and that puts everyone on the defense. If it's that easy to shut down America what could they do with a truck load of the stuff.

What if Iran has the same play book? And what if, that's what Bush and Obama are scared of. And, maybe that explains all the propositioning of equipment and men that we are seeing in America today?

Fema Centers... Maybe they aren't for trouble makers, maybe they are for the infected...?

Now there is some Doom Candy to chew on... LOL...
DblTapViper
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Re: WORLD at WAR, Official 2012 Thread (TO BE CONTINUED) Israel, Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, PA, Egypt, Libya, Pakistan, North Korea, Russia, China, U.S.
2001 anthrax attacks

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

This thought has been in my head for years. Why don't we just take care of the problem with Iran? Do we WANT another North Korea, do we want another Pakistan, India, South Africa? Look how hard it was to get South Africa to give up it's nukes.

So back to the Anthrax Attacks, it's been my belief that it was a warning shot across to bow of America from, I think, Iraq. NO proof, no nothing. It was more like who had the most to lose after 9/11 and Iraq seem to fit the bill. So they put a little anthrax in the mail and that puts everyone on the defense. If it's that easy to shut down America what could they do with a truck load of the stuff.

What if Iran has the same play book? And what if, that's what Bush and Obama are scared of. And, maybe that explains all the propositioning of equipment and men that we are seeing in America today?

Fema Centers... Maybe they aren't for trouble makers, maybe they are for the infected...?

Now there is some Doom Candy to chew on... LOL...
 Quoting: DblTapViper


It is known, that hisbollah and iran are active in the US. We know here that they are active here, and they killed people several times here in Europe.

I am pretty sure, that their assets are bigger in the US. Some reports sighted them in Mexico working together with the drug cartel over there.

You just have to connect the dots .... . And think out of the box.
To forestall an Israeli / US attack, if you were mullah in Theran, what would you do ?
Anonymous Coward
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09/06/2012 06:28 PM
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Re: WORLD at WAR, Official 2012 Thread (TO BE CONTINUED) Israel, Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, PA, Egypt, Libya, Pakistan, North Korea, Russia, China, U.S.
Ok, good night
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Re: WORLD at WAR, Official 2012 Thread (TO BE CONTINUED) Israel, Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, PA, Egypt, Libya, Pakistan, North Korea, Russia, China, U.S.
...


A "skirmish", huh?

That skirmish cast Israel economy estimated 5 billion dollars.

Not to mention the intangibles, more longer-term losses that are harder to calculate: the damaged image of the Merkava program, even though those older tanks were sent into suicide missins into fortified wooded/mountanous areas, into massive mine-traps & veritable valleys of Kornets and Metis-M.

Likewise, the impotence of the game IAF was also scrutinized closely by Israel's friends and foes alike. Reportedly even George W. Bush was pissed that Israel started something that it couldn't finish. No wonder, just 1-2 short years Dubya refused to support/supply Israel's plans to strike Iran's nuke facilities --- reasoning being that he was not going to risk what was left of his legacy and his party's re-election chances on IDF that couldn't even handle a few Hezbollah thugs...

That skirmish was seen around the world, in particular in the Islamic world, as a great victory. Huge deterrence fail. For instance, if I am Iran circa 2006 watching that Olmert Debacle and I am on the fence whether or not to take risk in expanding nuclear program development, I am laughing my ass off and giving the greenlight to IRGC.

Look at how much more armed Hezbollah is today compared with 2006 -- which is yet another reason why the decision to delay Iran strike was likely taken, IMO. Israel commanders talk the talk, but you can tell thay they are worried or downright scared.

And they should be. Look, I know you'll say how Israel has access to computers and simulators and experts... but do you think "gaming" Iran is enough? The actual war is something else entirely. Which is why most former and some current IDF bosses are vociferously against the strike. Yes, in part they're probably under severe pressure from Washington and Brussels. But I am sure that's not it -- they're scared they wouldn't be able to handle it or its aftermath.

And, again, even if Israel has wunderwaffe like non-nuclear EMP and Super-Stuxnet cyber weapon.... is it really all that wise to **waste** such secret technology on Iran?

Afterall, there are forces more dangerous to Israel than Iran. (See: Pakistan selling nukes to Saudis, Egypt, Turkey, Jordan, and so on).
 Quoting: Baroness Ashtron's big o 9143314


I think Israel learned a huge lesson from Lebanon...PC has no place in war if you want to win...
 Quoting: Gerry52


Mr. Gerry52, you always warn us to not accept easy answars or assumptions. So I try not to, which is why I say this: it's real easy/lazy to blame everything on PC.

Just off the top of my head, I think 2006 exposed severa; troubling aspects:

1. IDF commanders, experts and specialists are terribly OVERRATED.

2. Arabs and Islamists in general are becoming SMARTER thann in 60s and 70s -- because their kids have studied in top Western universities; they have lots of rich Jihad-sympathizers all over the world willing to sustain them through large donations; they too have grown up with Internet, cell phones & fancy computer gadgets like their Israeli counter-parts. It's manifesting itself in lots of things -- from ever-more sophisticated and deadly IED as even the mighty US has had a chance to experience to prolifiration of all kinds of weaponry, including presumably WMD and pportable North-Korea designed EMP.

2. Israel is a slave to world-community. To wishes and whims of Washigton DC and Brussels in particular. It's not just PC. It goes beyond that, unfortunately: the one half of Israeli leadership seems to have sold out to foreign control; the other half -- were simply bullied or scared into submission & compliance. Often times Israel acts like it knows that if it steps one step out of line it's going to be economically strangled with BDS, or arrested and sent to Hague as soon as they step on foreign soil. And this perceived noose is getting tighter, regardless of the actual military lessons that may or may not have been learned from 2006. As someone else mentioned, wars are NO LONGER FOUGHT EXCULUSIVELY ON BATTLEFIELD -- and nowhere it is apparent as in Israel.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9143314


Please understand, I have to be very careful what I say or how I explain things as this is kind of what I am paid for. My boss will occasionally look at this thread if only to see what I have said. Rather than be misunderstood for those things I can not or will not say, maybe the best thing is to return to lurker status and say nothing...My initial interest in this thread was looking for differing points of view, not to argue. I'll just say your right, you win and leave it at that.
 Quoting: Gerry52


The heck? What are you talking about? I never asked you to reveal anything classified or secret -- or anything at all.

Mr. Gerry, I dunno about other posters, but our discussion so far have been of benign GENERAL variety. I enjoy them -- and this thread because it's so UNLIKE all the other GLP retardation and trolling.

I root for Israel, but I try NOT to buy into the hype that IDF is fulol of geniuses and super-ultra-mega-alien tech. And while it gives me no pleasure to say, I recognize the military and political/economic/diplomatic dangers and shortcomings that Izzy faces that drive its decision-making or lack thereof. I usually support my points with at least one example. Notthing earth-shattering revealed here.

I think we agree on most points, actually. But maybe not.


Honestly, if Israel has all this non-nuclear EMP and Super-Stuxnet tech.... then sneaking something inside Iran's facilities by bribing the right people or otherwise over the last 10 years.... shouldn't be a problem.

Boom, boom. Israel is attacked. Israel was ready. It pummels. Iran and Hezbollah look like the aggressor. IDF hands are free to kick ass for a month straight. Doplomatic damage substantial, but manageable. Obama is secretly seething, but he is forced to accept fait accompli.

Anything I lefty out?
DblTapViper

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09/06/2012 06:29 PM
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Re: WORLD at WAR, Official 2012 Thread (TO BE CONTINUED) Israel, Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, PA, Egypt, Libya, Pakistan, North Korea, Russia, China, U.S.
...


A "skirmish", huh?

That skirmish cast Israel economy estimated 5 billion dollars.

Not to mention the intangibles, more longer-term losses that are harder to calculate: the damaged image of the Merkava program, even though those older tanks were sent into suicide missins into fortified wooded/mountanous areas, into massive mine-traps & veritable valleys of Kornets and Metis-M.

Likewise, the impotence of the game IAF was also scrutinized closely by Israel's friends and foes alike. Reportedly even George W. Bush was pissed that Israel started something that it couldn't finish. No wonder, just 1-2 short years Dubya refused to support/supply Israel's plans to strike Iran's nuke facilities --- reasoning being that he was not going to risk what was left of his legacy and his party's re-election chances on IDF that couldn't even handle a few Hezbollah thugs...

That skirmish was seen around the world, in particular in the Islamic world, as a great victory. Huge deterrence fail. For instance, if I am Iran circa 2006 watching that Olmert Debacle and I am on the fence whether or not to take risk in expanding nuclear program development, I am laughing my ass off and giving the greenlight to IRGC.

Look at how much more armed Hezbollah is today compared with 2006 -- which is yet another reason why the decision to delay Iran strike was likely taken, IMO. Israel commanders talk the talk, but you can tell thay they are worried or downright scared.

And they should be. Look, I know you'll say how Israel has access to computers and simulators and experts... but do you think "gaming" Iran is enough? The actual war is something else entirely. Which is why most former and some current IDF bosses are vociferously against the strike. Yes, in part they're probably under severe pressure from Washington and Brussels. But I am sure that's not it -- they're scared they wouldn't be able to handle it or its aftermath.

And, again, even if Israel has wunderwaffe like non-nuclear EMP and Super-Stuxnet cyber weapon.... is it really all that wise to **waste** such secret technology on Iran?

Afterall, there are forces more dangerous to Israel than Iran. (See: Pakistan selling nukes to Saudis, Egypt, Turkey, Jordan, and so on).
 Quoting: Baroness Ashtron's big o 9143314


I think Israel learned a huge lesson from Lebanon...PC has no place in war if you want to win...
 Quoting: Gerry52


Mr. Gerry52, you always warn us to not accept easy answars or assumptions. So I try not to, which is why I say this: it's real easy/lazy to blame everything on PC.

Just off the top of my head, I think 2006 exposed severa; troubling aspects:

1. IDF commanders, experts and specialists are terribly OVERRATED.

2. Arabs and Islamists in general are becoming SMARTER thann in 60s and 70s -- because their kids have studied in top Western universities; they have lots of rich Jihad-sympathizers all over the world willing to sustain them through large donations; they too have grown up with Internet, cell phones & fancy computer gadgets like their Israeli counter-parts. It's manifesting itself in lots of things -- from ever-more sophisticated and deadly IED as even the mighty US has had a chance to experience to prolifiration of all kinds of weaponry, including presumably WMD and pportable North-Korea designed EMP.

2. Israel is a slave to world-community. To wishes and whims of Washigton DC and Brussels in particular. It's not just PC. It goes beyond that, unfortunately: the one half of Israeli leadership seems to have sold out to foreign control; the other half -- were simply bullied or scared into submission & compliance. Often times Israel acts like it knows that if it steps one step out of line it's going to be economically strangled with BDS, or arrested and sent to Hague as soon as they step on foreign soil. And this perceived noose is getting tighter, regardless of the actual military lessons that may or may not have been learned from 2006. As someone else mentioned, wars are NO LONGER FOUGHT EXCULUSIVELY ON BATTLEFIELD -- and nowhere it is apparent as in Israel.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9143314


Please understand, I have to be very careful what I say or how I explain things as this is kind of what I am paid for. My boss will occasionally look at this thread if only to see what I have said. Rather than be misunderstood for those things I can not or will not say, maybe the best thing is to return to lurker status and say nothing...My initial interest in this thread was looking for differing points of view, not to argue. I'll just say your right, you win and leave it at that.
 Quoting: Gerry52


What, WHAT... I thought you ran the joint... LOL... Wait, aren't you were some high priced weather man or something.... controlling the price of oil with your "flash" emails to rig owners.. LOL... screwing us little guys.... and now you want to be reduced to lurker status... unheard of.. never going to happen. Which will happen sooner, you becoming a "lurker" or some Army dishwasher with bad feet alone dating your daughter?

Last Edited by DblTapViper on 09/06/2012 06:41 PM
DblTapViper
DblTapViper

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09/06/2012 06:40 PM
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Re: WORLD at WAR, Official 2012 Thread (TO BE CONTINUED) Israel, Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, PA, Egypt, Libya, Pakistan, North Korea, Russia, China, U.S.
...


I think Israel learned a huge lesson from Lebanon...PC has no place in war if you want to win...
 Quoting: Gerry52


Mr. Gerry52, you always warn us to not accept easy answars or assumptions. So I try not to, which is why I say this: it's real easy/lazy to blame everything on PC.

Just off the top of my head, I think 2006 exposed severa; troubling aspects:

1. IDF commanders, experts and specialists are terribly OVERRATED.

2. Arabs and Islamists in general are becoming SMARTER thann in 60s and 70s -- because their kids have studied in top Western universities; they have lots of rich Jihad-sympathizers all over the world willing to sustain them through large donations; they too have grown up with Internet, cell phones & fancy computer gadgets like their Israeli counter-parts. It's manifesting itself in lots of things -- from ever-more sophisticated and deadly IED as even the mighty US has had a chance to experience to prolifiration of all kinds of weaponry, including presumably WMD and pportable North-Korea designed EMP.

2. Israel is a slave to world-community. To wishes and whims of Washigton DC and Brussels in particular. It's not just PC. It goes beyond that, unfortunately: the one half of Israeli leadership seems to have sold out to foreign control; the other half -- were simply bullied or scared into submission & compliance. Often times Israel acts like it knows that if it steps one step out of line it's going to be economically strangled with BDS, or arrested and sent to Hague as soon as they step on foreign soil. And this perceived noose is getting tighter, regardless of the actual military lessons that may or may not have been learned from 2006. As someone else mentioned, wars are NO LONGER FOUGHT EXCULUSIVELY ON BATTLEFIELD -- and nowhere it is apparent as in Israel.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9143314


Please understand, I have to be very careful what I say or how I explain things as this is kind of what I am paid for. My boss will occasionally look at this thread if only to see what I have said. Rather than be misunderstood for those things I can not or will not say, maybe the best thing is to return to lurker status and say nothing...My initial interest in this thread was looking for differing points of view, not to argue. I'll just say your right, you win and leave it at that.
 Quoting: Gerry52


The heck? What are you talking about? I never asked you to reveal anything classified or secret -- or anything at all.

Mr. Gerry, I dunno about other posters, but our discussion so far have been of benign GENERAL variety. I enjoy them -- and this thread because it's so UNLIKE all the other GLP retardation and trolling.

I root for Israel, but I try NOT to buy into the hype that IDF is fulol of geniuses and super-ultra-mega-alien tech. And while it gives me no pleasure to say, I recognize the military and political/economic/diplomatic dangers and shortcomings that Izzy faces that drive its decision-making or lack thereof. I usually support my points with at least one example. Notthing earth-shattering revealed here.

I think we agree on most points, actually. But maybe not.


Honestly, if Israel has all this non-nuclear EMP and Super-Stuxnet tech.... then sneaking something inside Iran's facilities by bribing the right people or otherwise over the last 10 years.... shouldn't be a problem.

Boom, boom. Israel is attacked. Israel was ready. It pummels. Iran and Hezbollah look like the aggressor. IDF hands are free to kick ass for a month straight. Doplomatic damage substantial, but manageable. Obama is secretly seething, but he is forced to accept fait accompli.

Anything I lefty out?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9143314


If I might jump in, you only get to "pull that rabbit out of the hat" a few times. Just ask yourself, what would you do if a few of your nuke installations were leveled by a secret , hidden bomb? How many people do you think are dead because of those little slip ups in security? How many families, children included... dead? I just don't see it working to the extent that you do.

And, one last point, Iran has had installations leveled to the ground. Did they attack anyone? Israel may have been thinking the same as you, it just didn't work. Iran did not take the bait in a meaningful way that would justify all out war.
DblTapViper
tmorais

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09/06/2012 07:02 PM
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Re: WORLD at WAR, Official 2012 Thread (TO BE CONTINUED) Israel, Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, PA, Egypt, Libya, Pakistan, North Korea, Russia, China, U.S.
US congressman confirms sharp exchange between PM, US envoy

Republican Congressman Mike Rogers from Michigan, who chairs the House Intelligence Committee, told a Michigan radio station that the "sharp exchange" was "unusual to say the least."

Pressed whether he had ever experienced anything like that before, he said, "We've had sharp exchanges with other heads of state and in intelligence services and other things, but nothing at that level that I've seen in all my time where people were clearly that agitated, clearly that worked up about a particular issue where there was a very sharp exchange."

[link to www.jpost.com]

-

Both governments tried to play this event down but it appears to be confirmed.
Anonymous Coward
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09/06/2012 07:10 PM
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Re: WORLD at WAR, Official 2012 Thread (TO BE CONTINUED) Israel, Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, PA, Egypt, Libya, Pakistan, North Korea, Russia, China, U.S.
...


A "skirmish", huh?

That skirmish cast Israel economy estimated 5 billion dollars.

Not to mention the intangibles, more longer-term losses that are harder to calculate: the damaged image of the Merkava program, even though those older tanks were sent into suicide missins into fortified wooded/mountanous areas, into massive mine-traps & veritable valleys of Kornets and Metis-M.

Likewise, the impotence of the game IAF was also scrutinized closely by Israel's friends and foes alike. Reportedly even George W. Bush was pissed that Israel started something that it couldn't finish. No wonder, just 1-2 short years Dubya refused to support/supply Israel's plans to strike Iran's nuke facilities --- reasoning being that he was not going to risk what was left of his legacy and his party's re-election chances on IDF that couldn't even handle a few Hezbollah thugs...

That skirmish was seen around the world, in particular in the Islamic world, as a great victory. Huge deterrence fail. For instance, if I am Iran circa 2006 watching that Olmert Debacle and I am on the fence whether or not to take risk in expanding nuclear program development, I am laughing my ass off and giving the greenlight to IRGC.

Look at how much more armed Hezbollah is today compared with 2006 -- which is yet another reason why the decision to delay Iran strike was likely taken, IMO. Israel commanders talk the talk, but you can tell thay they are worried or downright scared.

And they should be. Look, I know you'll say how Israel has access to computers and simulators and experts... but do you think "gaming" Iran is enough? The actual war is something else entirely. Which is why most former and some current IDF bosses are vociferously against the strike. Yes, in part they're probably under severe pressure from Washington and Brussels. But I am sure that's not it -- they're scared they wouldn't be able to handle it or its aftermath.

And, again, even if Israel has wunderwaffe like non-nuclear EMP and Super-Stuxnet cyber weapon.... is it really all that wise to **waste** such secret technology on Iran?

Afterall, there are forces more dangerous to Israel than Iran. (See: Pakistan selling nukes to Saudis, Egypt, Turkey, Jordan, and so on).
 Quoting: Baroness Ashtron's big o 9143314


I think Israel learned a huge lesson from Lebanon...PC has no place in war if you want to win...
 Quoting: Gerry52


Mr. Gerry52, you always warn us to not accept easy answars or assumptions. So I try not to, which is why I say this: it's real easy/lazy to blame everything on PC.

Just off the top of my head, I think 2006 exposed severa; troubling aspects:

1. IDF commanders, experts and specialists are terribly OVERRATED.

2. Arabs and Islamists in general are becoming SMARTER thann in 60s and 70s -- because their kids have studied in top Western universities; they have lots of rich Jihad-sympathizers all over the world willing to sustain them through large donations; they too have grown up with Internet, cell phones & fancy computer gadgets like their Israeli counter-parts. It's manifesting itself in lots of things -- from ever-more sophisticated and deadly IED as even the mighty US has had a chance to experience to prolifiration of all kinds of weaponry, including presumably WMD and pportable North-Korea designed EMP.

2. Israel is a slave to world-community. To wishes and whims of Washigton DC and Brussels in particular. It's not just PC. It goes beyond that, unfortunately: the one half of Israeli leadership seems to have sold out to foreign control; the other half -- were simply bullied or scared into submission & compliance. Often times Israel acts like it knows that if it steps one step out of line it's going to be economically strangled with BDS, or arrested and sent to Hague as soon as they step on foreign soil. And this perceived noose is getting tighter, regardless of the actual military lessons that may or may not have been learned from 2006. As someone else mentioned, wars are NO LONGER FOUGHT EXCULUSIVELY ON BATTLEFIELD -- and nowhere it is apparent as in Israel.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9143314


Please understand, I have to be very careful what I say or how I explain things as this is kind of what I am paid for. My boss will occasionally look at this thread if only to see what I have said. Rather than be misunderstood for those things I can not or will not say, maybe the best thing is to return to lurker status and say nothing...My initial interest in this thread was looking for differing points of view, not to argue. I'll just say your right, you win and leave it at that.
 Quoting: Gerry52


looks like you have the thread topic discussion all to yourself, kid. i imagine you're used to that sort of thing, though.
tmorais

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09/06/2012 07:16 PM
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Re: WORLD at WAR, Official 2012 Thread (TO BE CONTINUED) Israel, Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, PA, Egypt, Libya, Pakistan, North Korea, Russia, China, U.S.
Report: Syria's chemical weapons stored in 20 sites around country

Western spy agencies suspect the Syrian government has dispersed several hundred tons of chemical weapons and precursor components across as many as 20 sites across the country, heightening anxieties over the ability to secure the arsenals in the event of a complete breakdown of authority in the war-torn nation, U.S. and Middle Eastern officials say.

Officials are monitoring the sites, but the officials said there is growing fear that they have not identified every location and that some of the poisons could be stolen or used by Syrian troops against civilians.

[link to www.washingtonpost.com]
tmorais

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09/06/2012 07:20 PM
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Re: WORLD at WAR, Official 2012 Thread (TO BE CONTINUED) Israel, Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, PA, Egypt, Libya, Pakistan, North Korea, Russia, China, U.S.
Iran sends elite troops to aid Assad regime

Western intelligence officials say that Iran's president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, has personally sanctioned the dispatch of the experienced officers to ensure that the Assad regime, Iran's most important regional ally, survives the threat to its survival.

In addition, Iran has shipped hundreds of tons of military equipment, including guns, rockets, and shells, to Syria through the regular air corridor that has been established between Damascus and Tehran.

[link to www.telegraph.co.uk]
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09/06/2012 07:22 PM
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Re: WORLD at WAR, Official 2012 Thread (TO BE CONTINUED) Israel, Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, PA, Egypt, Libya, Pakistan, North Korea, Russia, China, U.S.
...


Mr. Gerry52, you always warn us to not accept easy answars or assumptions. So I try not to, which is why I say this: it's real easy/lazy to blame everything on PC.

Just off the top of my head, I think 2006 exposed severa; troubling aspects:

1. IDF commanders, experts and specialists are terribly OVERRATED.

2. Arabs and Islamists in general are becoming SMARTER thann in 60s and 70s -- because their kids have studied in top Western universities; they have lots of rich Jihad-sympathizers all over the world willing to sustain them through large donations; they too have grown up with Internet, cell phones & fancy computer gadgets like their Israeli counter-parts. It's manifesting itself in lots of things -- from ever-more sophisticated and deadly IED as even the mighty US has had a chance to experience to prolifiration of all kinds of weaponry, including presumably WMD and pportable North-Korea designed EMP.

2. Israel is a slave to world-community. To wishes and whims of Washigton DC and Brussels in particular. It's not just PC. It goes beyond that, unfortunately: the one half of Israeli leadership seems to have sold out to foreign control; the other half -- were simply bullied or scared into submission & compliance. Often times Israel acts like it knows that if it steps one step out of line it's going to be economically strangled with BDS, or arrested and sent to Hague as soon as they step on foreign soil. And this perceived noose is getting tighter, regardless of the actual military lessons that may or may not have been learned from 2006. As someone else mentioned, wars are NO LONGER FOUGHT EXCULUSIVELY ON BATTLEFIELD -- and nowhere it is apparent as in Israel.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9143314


Please understand, I have to be very careful what I say or how I explain things as this is kind of what I am paid for. My boss will occasionally look at this thread if only to see what I have said. Rather than be misunderstood for those things I can not or will not say, maybe the best thing is to return to lurker status and say nothing...My initial interest in this thread was looking for differing points of view, not to argue. I'll just say your right, you win and leave it at that.
 Quoting: Gerry52


The heck? What are you talking about? I never asked you to reveal anything classified or secret -- or anything at all.

Mr. Gerry, I dunno about other posters, but our discussion so far have been of benign GENERAL variety. I enjoy them -- and this thread because it's so UNLIKE all the other GLP retardation and trolling.

I root for Israel, but I try NOT to buy into the hype that IDF is fulol of geniuses and super-ultra-mega-alien tech. And while it gives me no pleasure to say, I recognize the military and political/economic/diplomatic dangers and shortcomings that Izzy faces that drive its decision-making or lack thereof. I usually support my points with at least one example. Notthing earth-shattering revealed here.

I think we agree on most points, actually. But maybe not.


Honestly, if Israel has all this non-nuclear EMP and Super-Stuxnet tech.... then sneaking something inside Iran's facilities by bribing the right people or otherwise over the last 10 years.... shouldn't be a problem.

Boom, boom. Israel is attacked. Israel was ready. It pummels. Iran and Hezbollah look like the aggressor. IDF hands are free to kick ass for a month straight. Doplomatic damage substantial, but manageable. Obama is secretly seething, but he is forced to accept fait accompli.

Anything I lefty out?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9143314


If I might jump in, you only get to "pull that rabbit out of the hat" a few times. Just ask yourself, what would you do if a few of your nuke installations were leveled by a secret , hidden bomb? How many people do you think are dead because of those little slip ups in security? How many families, children included... dead? I just don't see it working to the extent that you do.

And, one last point, Iran has had installations leveled to the ground. Did they attack anyone? Israel may have been thinking the same as you, it just didn't work. Iran did not take the bait in a meaningful way that would justify all out war.
 Quoting: DblTapViper


Not all facilities are born equal.

Taking out Iran's Shahab-3 stockpile and chief missile expert back in November 2011, for instance... was a blow, but one Iran bounce back from.

Qom, Natanz, Ishafan, Arak and couple in Teheran facilities....going up in "industrial accidents".... because of virus or, um, something else.... that sets them back by years -- look it took them 2 decades to get the Busher faility finally working, and that was before Russians (publicly) reduced assistence because of recent sanctions.

If Iran doesn't retaliate for, say, Qom mountain blowing up from within as you suggest they won't, even better. Israel and Iran can continue to press them, to provoke them, to f*ck with their heads... until their economy is in shambles, food prices are ridiculous and Iranians finally have had enough and take to the streets en masse.
Anonymous Coward
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09/06/2012 07:26 PM
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Re: WORLD at WAR, Official 2012 Thread (TO BE CONTINUED) Israel, Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, PA, Egypt, Libya, Pakistan, North Korea, Russia, China, U.S.
US congressman confirms sharp exchange between PM, US envoy

Republican Congressman Mike Rogers from Michigan, who chairs the House Intelligence Committee, told a Michigan radio station that the "sharp exchange" was "unusual to say the least."

Pressed whether he had ever experienced anything like that before, he said, "We've had sharp exchanges with other heads of state and in intelligence services and other things, but nothing at that level that I've seen in all my time where people were clearly that agitated, clearly that worked up about a particular issue where there was a very sharp exchange."

[link to www.jpost.com]

-

Both governments tried to play this event down but it appears to be confirmed.
 Quoting: tmorais


If Mike Rogers or US envoy in question had a Domocles Sword of Ayatollah-promised nuclear Holocaust hanging over his nation.... he'd be a little less suprised, I'd wager.

Obama people do not like when the truth is spoken to them that interfers with their Marxist-Matrix reality.

Bad Bibi, baaaad. He should learn to grovel in front of Obama folks more. I guess, LOL.
tmorais

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09/06/2012 07:38 PM
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Re: WORLD at WAR, Official 2012 Thread (TO BE CONTINUED) Israel, Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, PA, Egypt, Libya, Pakistan, North Korea, Russia, China, U.S.
The IAEA is Powerless Against Iran

The report made somber reading. It made it clear that negotiations between the IAEA and Iran to bring the Iranian program under international inspection and supervision have completely failed. International sanctions have also so far failed to rein in the Iranian program.

Iran has already produced enough low enriched uranium to build give nuclear devices if that material was further enriched to weapons grade.

The transfer of capability to Fordow where it is protected from air attack, is fast creating what Israel refers to as a “zone of immunity” putting it beyond the reach of Israeli, and possibly eventually of U.S. military action.

[link to www.algemeiner.com]
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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09/06/2012 07:40 PM
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Re: WORLD at WAR, Official 2012 Thread (TO BE CONTINUED) Israel, Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, PA, Egypt, Libya, Pakistan, North Korea, Russia, China, U.S.
Barak hints U.S. military preparations may eliminate Israel's need for Iran strike
Comments come in the wake of a meeting between Barak and Netanyahu with U.S. Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta and National Security Advisor Tom Donilon over a possible military confrontation with Iran.

[link to www.haaretz.com]


Hmmmmmmm.
godzilla85

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09/06/2012 07:46 PM
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Re: WORLD at WAR, Official 2012 Thread (TO BE CONTINUED) Israel, Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, PA, Egypt, Libya, Pakistan, North Korea, Russia, China, U.S.
Barak hints U.S. military preparations may eliminate Israel's need for Iran strike
Comments come in the wake of a meeting between Barak and Netanyahu with U.S. Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta and National Security Advisor Tom Donilon over a possible military confrontation with Iran.

[link to www.haaretz.com]


Hmmmmmmm.
 Quoting: MIL MAN


don't buy much into it MM sounds like posturing to see if the administration will give em something they know they won't.
tmorais

User ID: 23228020
Brazil
09/06/2012 07:54 PM
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Re: WORLD at WAR, Official 2012 Thread (TO BE CONTINUED) Israel, Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, PA, Egypt, Libya, Pakistan, North Korea, Russia, China, U.S.
Barak hints U.S. military preparations may eliminate Israel's need for Iran strike
Comments come in the wake of a meeting between Barak and Netanyahu with U.S. Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta and National Security Advisor Tom Donilon over a possible military confrontation with Iran.

[link to www.haaretz.com]


Hmmmmmmm.
 Quoting: MIL MAN


don't buy much into it MM sounds like posturing to see if the administration will give em something they know they won't.
 Quoting: godzilla85


I agree. After all sparks, now they are saying that US efforts may be enough. Adjusting to the new scenario right?

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