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Breaking: Bank Runs In Spain Now In Progress...

 
Factual Error

User ID: 19116606
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09/02/2012 03:15 PM

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Re: Breaking: Bank Runs In Spain Now In Progress...
Where is the money going? To other European banks? Under the mattress?
Not intended to be a factual statement.
Saddletramp (OP)
We Don't Rent Pigs...

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09/02/2012 03:17 PM

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Re: Breaking: Bank Runs In Spain Now In Progress...
u better watch morgan stanley, spain will not be the first domino to fall.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23038934


Morgan Stanley and Bank of America are both experiencing similar electronic runs on their banks, the volume is currently less, but that could change in a heart beat...
"And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius

"Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..."
Fire WatchModerator
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09/02/2012 03:18 PM

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Re: Breaking: Bank Runs In Spain Now In Progress...
Is it not truly amazing OP that you post a thread about bank runs quoting July reports as well as reports on the first 7 months and because you post it on Sunday, people reply, "What on a Sunday"? Doesn't that really tell you something about the mentality? It sounded pretty clear to me. Unless of course it was the.....Shills!
 Quoting: Black Knight


If OP is just talking about the runs on banks in Spain, Greece, Italy, etc. throughout the year that is not even news. If he is saying bank run in Spain "Now In Progress" he is being very misleading. Crying fire in a packed theatre is not appropriate and can be dangerous.
 Quoting: Fire Watch


Just because you have an antiquated view of what a bank run is, is not my problem. You should watch more Financial News and less It's a Wonderful Life with Jimmy Stewart...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


The irony, you have no idea who I am or what I do for a living. What a dumbass you are!
When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty. Thomas Jefferson
-------------------------------------
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
Thomas Jefferson
Saddletramp (OP)
We Don't Rent Pigs...

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09/02/2012 03:19 PM

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Re: Breaking: Bank Runs In Spain Now In Progress...
Where is the money going? To other European banks? Under the mattress?
 Quoting: Factual Error


Well one of the features of the European Union Treaty is that there are no capital controls visa vi other Treaty countries, so much of the money is going to Germany, London, and Switzerland...
"And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius

"Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..."
Fire WatchModerator
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09/02/2012 03:19 PM

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Re: Breaking: Bank Runs In Spain Now In Progress...
u better watch morgan stanley, spain will not be the first domino to fall.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23038934


Morgan Stanley and Bank of America are both experiencing similar electronic runs on their banks, the volume is currently less, but that could change in a heart beat...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


Thanks, taking notes...cruise
When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty. Thomas Jefferson
-------------------------------------
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
Thomas Jefferson
Fire WatchModerator
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09/02/2012 03:20 PM

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Re: Breaking: Bank Runs In Spain Now In Progress...
Where is the money going? To other European banks? Under the mattress?
 Quoting: Factual Error


Well one of the features of the European Union Treaty is that there are no capital controls visa vi other Treaty countries, so much of the money is going to Germany, London, and Switzerland...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


slow down I don't write fast...lmao
When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty. Thomas Jefferson
-------------------------------------
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
Thomas Jefferson
Anonymous Coward
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09/02/2012 03:20 PM
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Re: Breaking: Bank Runs In Spain Now In Progress...
I have been doing the same here in the U.S. I used to keep money in the bank, now all I keep is enough to cover the bills.
Any spare cash gets hid where it will stay if I need it.
Saddletramp (OP)
We Don't Rent Pigs...

User ID: 740208
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09/02/2012 03:20 PM

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Re: Breaking: Bank Runs In Spain Now In Progress...
Is it not truly amazing OP that you post a thread about bank runs quoting July reports as well as reports on the first 7 months and because you post it on Sunday, people reply, "What on a Sunday"? Doesn't that really tell you something about the mentality? It sounded pretty clear to me. Unless of course it was the.....Shills!
 Quoting: Black Knight


If OP is just talking about the runs on banks in Spain, Greece, Italy, etc. throughout the year that is not even news. If he is saying bank run in Spain "Now In Progress" he is being very misleading. Crying fire in a packed theatre is not appropriate and can be dangerous.
 Quoting: Fire Watch


Just because you have an antiquated view of what a bank run is, is not my problem. You should watch more Financial News and less It's a Wonderful Life with Jimmy Stewart...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


The irony, you have no idea who I am or what I do for a living. What a dumbass you are!
 Quoting: Fire Watch


And frankly I could give a shit, you've shown your obvious ignorance through your posts...I don't give a shit if you're Ben fuckin Bernake, you're still an idiot...

Of course the Ben Bernake, idiot analogy goes without saying...

Last Edited by Saddletramp on 09/02/2012 03:22 PM
"And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius

"Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..."
Fire WatchModerator
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09/02/2012 03:22 PM

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Re: Breaking: Bank Runs In Spain Now In Progress...
...


If OP is just talking about the runs on banks in Spain, Greece, Italy, etc. throughout the year that is not even news. If he is saying bank run in Spain "Now In Progress" he is being very misleading. Crying fire in a packed theatre is not appropriate and can be dangerous.
 Quoting: Fire Watch


Just because you have an antiquated view of what a bank run is, is not my problem. You should watch more Financial News and less It's a Wonderful Life with Jimmy Stewart...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


The irony, you have no idea who I am or what I do for a living. What a dumbass you are!
 Quoting: Fire Watch

And frankly I could give a shit, you've shown your obvious ignorance through your posts...I don't give a shit if you're Ben fuckin Bernake, you're still an idiot...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


Bernanke

Last Edited by Fire Watch on 09/02/2012 03:23 PM
When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty. Thomas Jefferson
-------------------------------------
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
Thomas Jefferson
Anonymous Coward
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09/02/2012 03:26 PM
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Re: Breaking: Bank Runs In Spain Now In Progress...
Is it not truly amazing OP that you post a thread about bank runs quoting July reports as well as reports on the first 7 months and because you post it on Sunday, people reply, "What on a Sunday"? Doesn't that really tell you something about the mentality? It sounded pretty clear to me. Unless of course it was the.....Shills!
 Quoting: Black Knight


What amazes me is that people still have this view of a "bank run" from the 30's...

It's 2012 folks, you can simply transfer your entire account from one "insolvent" bank, to a "solvent" bank within the European Union on your laptop, then access your funds at your discretion...

This type of run on a bank is even more devestating, because they can't slow it down with physical cash supplies...

The lack of economic education in this country today is staggering...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


As evidenced by the millions who lost it all to forclosure and reposession, most know nothing but how to consume! That is how the system is set up to take advantage of the finanically compromised, of which there are plenty.
Anonymous Coward
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09/02/2012 03:30 PM
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Re: Breaking: Bank Runs In Spain Now In Progress...
Where is the money going? To other European banks? Under the mattress?
 Quoting: Factual Error


The money goes to German banks which eventually will fund Spain's bail out !!

crazyjak
Saddletramp (OP)
We Don't Rent Pigs...

User ID: 740208
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09/02/2012 03:31 PM

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Re: Breaking: Bank Runs In Spain Now In Progress...
Where is the money going? To other European banks? Under the mattress?
 Quoting: Factual Error


Well one of the features of the European Union Treaty is that there are no capital controls visa vi other Treaty countries, so much of the money is going to Germany, London, and Switzerland...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


slow down I don't write fast...lmao
 Quoting: Fire Watch


If you're too slow, you could always read the article I provided, it's all in there...

The loss of capital at Morgan Stanley and Bank of America is available in thier filings...

Last Edited by Saddletramp on 09/02/2012 03:34 PM
"And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius

"Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..."
Fire WatchModerator
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09/02/2012 03:37 PM

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Re: Breaking: Bank Runs In Spain Now In Progress...
Where is the money going? To other European banks? Under the mattress?
 Quoting: Factual Error


Well one of the features of the European Union Treaty is that there are no capital controls visa vi other Treaty countries, so much of the money is going to Germany, London, and Switzerland...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


slow down I don't write fast...lmao
 Quoting: Fire Watch


If you're too slow, you could always read the article I provided, it's all in there...

The loss of capital at Morgan Stanley and Bank of America is available in thier filings...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


a new word for you to look up in the dictionary:

S A R C A S M
When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty. Thomas Jefferson
-------------------------------------
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
Thomas Jefferson
King David
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09/02/2012 03:37 PM
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Re: Breaking: Bank Runs In Spain Now In Progress...
What must be understood is Banks operate under Fractional Reserve Lending, losing 17% of Deposits doesn't decrease their lending ability by 17%, it's more like 117%.

But these Bank had already loaned money based upon those deposits, so now they are over leveraged. That's not really the worst of it, people did not start pulling their money out of these Banks for no reason, Banks hold Securities as part of their Capital Requirements, these Banks where/are already holding bad Paper Greek/Spanish Bonds CDO's CDS's.

These Banks are way over leveraged, not just a little, they are going to need huge Capital injections.

If this were truly a free market, these banks would have already failed, it's only the fact that the markets are sure that the ECB is going to Bail them out that is keeping them solvent.

Don't get me wrong, they still have assets. Outstanding Loans are Bank Assets, Deposits are Bank Liabilities, as you can see people can withdraw deposits, you can't withdraw what you owe the Banks.

The Banks remain Solvent, incoming Cash flow meets outgoing obligations, so long as the Banks Charge Off and Delinquency Rates don't exceed the interest rate coefficient.

If that happens they'll be forced into Bankruptcy, but that has little to do with leverage Ratios.

A Bank can be leveraged to the Moon and still be solvent, but at what point do the regulators force it into bankruptcy to protect the shareholders value, if any remains, and the overall Banking system?
Fire WatchModerator
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09/02/2012 03:39 PM

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Re: Breaking: Bank Runs In Spain Now In Progress...
What must be understood is Banks operate under Fractional Reserve Lending, losing 17% of Deposits doesn't decrease their lending ability by 17%, it's more like 117%.

But these Bank had already loaned money based upon those deposits, so now they are over leveraged. That's not really the worst of it, people did not start pulling their money out of these Banks for no reason, Banks hold Securities as part of their Capital Requirements, these Banks where/are already holding bad Paper Greek/Spanish Bonds CDO's CDS's.

These Banks are way over leveraged, not just a little, they are going to need huge Capital injections.

If this were truly a free market, these banks would have already failed, it's only the fact that the markets are sure that the ECB is going to Bail them out that is keeping them solvent.

Don't get me wrong, they still have assets. Outstanding Loans are Bank Assets, Deposits are Bank Liabilities, as you can see people can withdraw deposits, you can't withdraw what you owe the Banks.

The Banks remain Solvent, incoming Cash flow meets outgoing obligations, so long as the Banks Charge Off and Delinquency Rates don't exceed the interest rate coefficient.

If that happens they'll be forced into Bankruptcy, but that has little to do with leverage Ratios.

A Bank can be leveraged to the Moon and still be solvent, but at what point do the regulators force it into bankruptcy to protect the shareholders value, if any remains, and the overall Banking system?
 Quoting: King David 22908741


The entire global financial system is a house of cards. The governments should have let everyone fail in 08. We would be in a recovery by now.
When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty. Thomas Jefferson
-------------------------------------
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
Thomas Jefferson
Anonymous Coward
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09/02/2012 03:40 PM
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Re: Breaking: Bank Runs In Spain Now In Progress...
...


Well one of the features of the European Union Treaty is that there are no capital controls visa vi other Treaty countries, so much of the money is going to Germany, London, and Switzerland...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


slow down I don't write fast...lmao
 Quoting: Fire Watch


If you're too slow, you could always read the article I provided, it's all in there...

The loss of capital at Morgan Stanley and Bank of America is available in thier filings...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


a new word for you to look up in the dictionary:

S A R C A S M
 Quoting: Fire Watch


you have already demonstrated you can't read, now you're just shitting up this thread
Anonymous Coward
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09/02/2012 03:40 PM
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Re: Breaking: Bank Runs In Spain Now In Progress...
Spain needs to deport all the foriegners from their country that are just using them for the generous welfare programs. THis is the bottomline. All the leverage and bankruptcies are due to massive immigration from North Africa. Time to fix the probme by getting rid of Muslims and Negroids.
Anonymous Coward
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09/02/2012 03:40 PM
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Re: Breaking: Bank Runs In Spain Now In Progress...
Better hope you're right.

Rumours like this can do a lot of damage.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22481746

Are you implying that if it isn't a rumor everything will be honky dory?
Anonymous Coward
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United Kingdom
09/02/2012 03:40 PM
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Re: Breaking: Bank Runs In Spain Now In Progress...
Is it not truly amazing OP that you post a thread about bank runs quoting July reports as well as reports on the first 7 months and because you post it on Sunday, people reply, "What on a Sunday"? Doesn't that really tell you something about the mentality? It sounded pretty clear to me. Unless of course it was the.....Shills!
 Quoting: Black Knight


Yeah I find it a little funny too. "How can this happen on a sunday?" Maybe if they bothered to read the article, they would not ask stupid questions.

As to the actual matter, we knew it was coming, its been on the cards for a while. Its just trying to predict which countries fold first. Let the betting commence, my money is on Portugal.
Anonymous Coward
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09/02/2012 03:41 PM
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Re: Breaking: Bank Runs In Spain Now In Progress...
And so it begins.................
Saddletramp (OP)
We Don't Rent Pigs...

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09/02/2012 03:45 PM

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Re: Breaking: Bank Runs In Spain Now In Progress...
What must be understood is Banks operate under Fractional Reserve Lending, losing 17% of Deposits doesn't decrease their lending ability by 17%, it's more like 117%.

But these Bank had already loaned money based upon those deposits, so now they are over leveraged. That's not really the worst of it, people did not start pulling their money out of these Banks for no reason, Banks hold Securities as part of their Capital Requirements, these Banks where/are already holding bad Paper Greek/Spanish Bonds CDO's CDS's.

These Banks are way over leveraged, not just a little, they are going to need huge Capital injections.

If this were truly a free market, these banks would have already failed, it's only the fact that the markets are sure that the ECB is going to Bail them out that is keeping them solvent.

Don't get me wrong, they still have assets. Outstanding Loans are Bank Assets, Deposits are Bank Liabilities, as you can see people can withdraw deposits, you can't withdraw what you owe the Banks.

The Banks remain Solvent, incoming Cash flow meets outgoing obligations, so long as the Banks Charge Off and Delinquency Rates don't exceed the interest rate coefficient.

If that happens they'll be forced into Bankruptcy, but that has little to do with leverage Ratios.

A Bank can be leveraged to the Moon and still be solvent, but at what point do the regulators force it into bankruptcy to protect the shareholders value, if any remains, and the overall Banking system?
 Quoting: King David 22908741


The entire global financial system is a house of cards. The governments should have let everyone fail in 08. We would be in a recovery by now.
 Quoting: Fire Watch


We agree on something...

However, I would argue that at a certain amount of leverage a bank can be "effectively" insolvent even if it is still in operation. When other banks refuse to lend these banks money because of their insane leverage, and they are forced to go to central banks or their own government as a lender of last resort, they essentially become govt owned enterprises and therefore the ward of the taxpayer...

Last Edited by Saddletramp on 09/02/2012 03:46 PM
"And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius

"Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..."
ArchaicSEAL
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09/02/2012 03:47 PM
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Re: Breaking: Bank Runs In Spain Now In Progress...
On a Sunday? In a Catholic country?

bsflag
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22323395


Hrmn... what century are you living in? Are you a time traveler posting from the far past? Seriously? You think that only America has the internet and thus the ability to wire money via online methods over the weekend while the physical bank is closed?

Moreover, do you think Catholic means anything? Do you know how many catholics say they are catholic but it means nothing aside from some kind of identity marker? Most never go to mass and live life just like the morally bankrupt atheists. Religion means nothing... spirituality is everything. So if your excuse is that they are in church taking mass on Sunday and that banks are closed, then your argument is seriously the suck.

Moreover, if you took the time to read more than just the title of the post you would see that it has been happening over the past months and not just today.

But I do have to ask you something: How does it feel to be a complete failure in this life?
Anonymous Coward
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09/02/2012 03:48 PM
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Re: Breaking: Bank Runs In Spain Now In Progress...
Zerohedge??????
cruisecruisecruisecruisecruisecruisecruisecruisecruisecruisecruisecruisecruisecruisecruisecruisecruisecruisecruisecruisecruisecruisecruisecruisecruisecruisecruisecruise
Anonymous Coward
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09/02/2012 03:49 PM
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bsflagbsflagbsflagbsflagbsflagbsflagbsflagbsflagbsflagbsflagbsflag
Fire WatchModerator
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09/02/2012 03:51 PM

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Re: Breaking: Bank Runs In Spain Now In Progress...
What must be understood is Banks operate under Fractional Reserve Lending, losing 17% of Deposits doesn't decrease their lending ability by 17%, it's more like 117%.

But these Bank had already loaned money based upon those deposits, so now they are over leveraged. That's not really the worst of it, people did not start pulling their money out of these Banks for no reason, Banks hold Securities as part of their Capital Requirements, these Banks where/are already holding bad Paper Greek/Spanish Bonds CDO's CDS's.

These Banks are way over leveraged, not just a little, they are going to need huge Capital injections.

If this were truly a free market, these banks would have already failed, it's only the fact that the markets are sure that the ECB is going to Bail them out that is keeping them solvent.

Don't get me wrong, they still have assets. Outstanding Loans are Bank Assets, Deposits are Bank Liabilities, as you can see people can withdraw deposits, you can't withdraw what you owe the Banks.

The Banks remain Solvent, incoming Cash flow meets outgoing obligations, so long as the Banks Charge Off and Delinquency Rates don't exceed the interest rate coefficient.

If that happens they'll be forced into Bankruptcy, but that has little to do with leverage Ratios.

A Bank can be leveraged to the Moon and still be solvent, but at what point do the regulators force it into bankruptcy to protect the shareholders value, if any remains, and the overall Banking system?
 Quoting: King David 22908741


The entire global financial system is a house of cards. The governments should have let everyone fail in 08. We would be in a recovery by now.
 Quoting: Fire Watch


We agree on something...

However, I would argue that at a certain amount of leverage a bank can be "effectively" insolvent even if it is still in operation. When other banks refuse to lend these banks money because of their insane leverage, and they are forced to go to central banks or their own government as a lender of last resort, they essentially become govt owned enterprises and therefore the ward of the taxpayer...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


I believe that when you are broke and cannot secure financing you sell or close the doors. I don't care if you are GM Microsoft or Goldman. Once you start down the "bailout" path it never ends well. It is a terrible pill to swallow but much better than collapsing the entire world economy. Unfortunately we chose the slow death as opposed to the hard medicine. Shame on tptb.
When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty. Thomas Jefferson
-------------------------------------
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
Thomas Jefferson
Anonymous Coward
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09/02/2012 03:54 PM
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Re: Breaking: Bank Runs In Spain Now In Progress...
Where is the money going? To other European banks? Under the mattress?
 Quoting: Factual Error


You can't rent a deposit box in Switzerland anymore, so hotels have been installing security box systems like crazy, and those are selling as soon as they are constructed. Last I checked interest rates on Swiss bonds were also negative meaning people are willing to lose a little money over the term of the bond versus losing it all sitting in Euros in a bank.
DERP

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09/02/2012 03:55 PM
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Re: Breaking: Bank Runs In Spain Now In Progress...
Point is they aren't withdrawing that much in cash.The banks still have cash on hand.These electronic runs are bs. These people are just moving digital currency around to another bank.If they allow electronic exchanges to go outside their nation then they are really stupid.Even so all the banks are joined together "aka owned" . They loan currency"cash" back and forth like candy. It dont really matter what the digital accounts say.The nations treasuries haven't monetized all the digital debt , because it would cost to much to print. It really is a fake bunch of money.
Light to Go

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09/02/2012 03:57 PM

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Re: Breaking: Bank Runs In Spain Now In Progress...
I believe at the BOA you need to personally meet with a customer service representative to close out your account. Now, electronically moving your money I am not certain about a limit of withdrawal or early withdrawal policies.
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bvndy

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09/02/2012 03:58 PM
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SO a bunch of worthless loans is now considered an "asset"?
Go ahead, drink the koolaid, take the red pill...
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the RESULTS of the consequences of your actions

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Saddletramp (OP)
We Don't Rent Pigs...

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09/02/2012 03:59 PM

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Re: Breaking: Bank Runs In Spain Now In Progress...
What must be understood is Banks operate under Fractional Reserve Lending, losing 17% of Deposits doesn't decrease their lending ability by 17%, it's more like 117%.

But these Bank had already loaned money based upon those deposits, so now they are over leveraged. That's not really the worst of it, people did not start pulling their money out of these Banks for no reason, Banks hold Securities as part of their Capital Requirements, these Banks where/are already holding bad Paper Greek/Spanish Bonds CDO's CDS's.

These Banks are way over leveraged, not just a little, they are going to need huge Capital injections.

If this were truly a free market, these banks would have already failed, it's only the fact that the markets are sure that the ECB is going to Bail them out that is keeping them solvent.

Don't get me wrong, they still have assets. Outstanding Loans are Bank Assets, Deposits are Bank Liabilities, as you can see people can withdraw deposits, you can't withdraw what you owe the Banks.

The Banks remain Solvent, incoming Cash flow meets outgoing obligations, so long as the Banks Charge Off and Delinquency Rates don't exceed the interest rate coefficient.

If that happens they'll be forced into Bankruptcy, but that has little to do with leverage Ratios.

A Bank can be leveraged to the Moon and still be solvent, but at what point do the regulators force it into bankruptcy to protect the shareholders value, if any remains, and the overall Banking system?
 Quoting: King David 22908741


The entire global financial system is a house of cards. The governments should have let everyone fail in 08. We would be in a recovery by now.
 Quoting: Fire Watch


We agree on something...

However, I would argue that at a certain amount of leverage a bank can be "effectively" insolvent even if it is still in operation. When other banks refuse to lend these banks money because of their insane leverage, and they are forced to go to central banks or their own government as a lender of last resort, they essentially become govt owned enterprises and therefore the ward of the taxpayer...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


I believe that when you are broke and cannot secure financing you sell or close the doors. I don't care if you are GM Microsoft or Goldman. Once you start down the "bailout" path it never ends well. It is a terrible pill to swallow but much better than collapsing the entire world economy. Unfortunately we chose the slow death as opposed to the hard medicine. Shame on tptb.
 Quoting: Fire Watch


Another agreement item. I'll put a big AMEN on that statement...
"And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius

"Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..."

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