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If Vaccines don't cause Autism why is it a side effect listed on the package insert with the FDA!

 
NightWisp

User ID: 942369
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09/07/2012 05:46 PM

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Re: If Vaccines don't cause Autism why is it a side effect listed on the package insert with the FDA!
You have a brain. Figure it out. It is called CYA.
BuzzKillington

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09/07/2012 05:57 PM
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Re: If Vaccines don't cause Autism why is it a side effect listed on the package insert with the FDA!
I was wondering what peoples opinions of travel vaccinations were in comparison to ones given to babies and children,

I'm talking hep a, hep b, typhoid, tetanus, cholera, tb, typhoid, yellow fever etc,
Do you think they are dangerous too?

Mercury is the most poisonous non-radioactive element in nature and is the main ingredient in a lot of these...

I don't wanna get sick when I travel but I also dont want to turn into a sponge later in life either...
BuzzKillington
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09/07/2012 05:59 PM
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Re: If Vaccines don't cause Autism why is it a side effect listed on the package insert with the FDA!
how do we detox from vaccines? Or can we?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 2045712
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09/07/2012 06:01 PM
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Re: If Vaccines don't cause Autism why is it a side effect listed on the package insert with the FDA!
I was wondering what peoples opinions of travel vaccinations were in comparison to ones given to babies and children,

I'm talking hep a, hep b, typhoid, tetanus, cholera, tb, typhoid, yellow fever etc,
Do you think they are dangerous too?

Mercury is the most poisonous non-radioactive element in nature and is the main ingredient in a lot of these...

I don't wanna get sick when I travel but I also dont want to turn into a sponge later in life either...
 Quoting: BuzzKillington


Look into what's absolutely necessary and what isn't.
A lot of places where you might think you need them you actually don't.
Anonymous Coward
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09/07/2012 06:06 PM
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Re: If Vaccines don't cause Autism why is it a side effect listed on the package insert with the FDA!
Wow, talk about blowing the whistle! woot woot
Anonymous Coward
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09/07/2012 06:08 PM
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Re: If Vaccines don't cause Autism why is it a side effect listed on the package insert with the FDA!

It's Amazing how any kids have Autism these days, there 2 kids on my street that have it, probably more.

Seems every daycare has at least one in the group as well.

But what really pisses me off are the parents pretending their kids are perfectly fine.

The earlier they get therapy, the better off they will be when they start school.

Parents need to wake up!!!
 Quoting: Nauti*Girl ~FoReVeR~


..but they don't, they have Autism Spectrum Disorder...if tomorrow it was decided that all brown haired babies will be classified as blonde, two things of note would happen..first there would be a significant increase in reported blonde hared babies and second, there would be no increase in blonde haired babies. Prior to 1994 there was no Autism Spectrum Disorder..there was just Autism and 4 other medical/neurological disorders..now they ALL ASD...

ASD is diagnosed according to guidelines listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition - Text Revision (DSM-IV-TR).1 The manual currently defines five disorders, sometimes called pervasive developmental disorders (PDDs), as ASD:
Autistic disorder (classic autism)
Asperger's disorder (Asperger syndrome)
Pervasive developmental disorder not otherwise specified (PDD-NOS)
Rett's disorder (Rett syndrome)
Childhood disintegrative disorder (CDD).
[link to www.nimh.nih.gov]
Catseye

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09/07/2012 06:14 PM
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Re: If Vaccines don't cause Autism why is it a side effect listed on the package insert with the FDA!
Over the past several years, I have looked through dozens of message boards devoted to health because of my own interests. I paid particular attention to those involving mercury and autism. I have come across countless posts by mothers who reported their child was never the same after vaccines. The ignorant can quote all the FDA and government crap they want but it's obvious to anyone who does their homework that there's a correlation. The protocols that are working best for autism are those that involve gut health and chelation because they already know it's the mercury in the vaccines that is the root cause of the problem.

How are they ever going to do a study to prove it when the people who fund studies are the ones who will get sued? The vaccine and amalgam industries can't afford the lawsuits Everyone I know has been vaccinated and has mercury fillings in their mouths. The powers that be know it's bad but they can't admit it. It's like Monsanto not serving GM food in their own cafeteria.
 Quoting: Catseye


Oh, BTW, I don't ever remember a mom reporting an extra arm growing after vaccines were administered.
 Quoting: Catseye


Has everyone you know got autism? Or even a majority.
They've all had vaccines and mercury fillings so by your logic they should have.
I mean, that's the double whammy isn't it?

I'm hoping your last sentence was an attempt at sarcasm.
 Quoting: Cahill



The point was that mercury is so pervasive in our country that everyone would have an opportunity to sue if some study showed it caused all these horrific things - because we weren't adequately warned when we were given the vaccines or the fillings in our teeth. No, everyone I know does not have autism. The reason everyone doesn't get poisoned from mercury is because the elemental mercury in fillings and vaccines is normally detoxified by the body. But in some people, the elemental form of mercury is converted into the much more dangerous methyl mercury form and it is this that is causing some people to have problems. Some people may also have a problem excreting mercury properly and promptly. Not everyone gets sick because not everyone has a problem with yeast and bacteria, like a case of dysbiosis, or with their own body's detoxification ability by their liver and kidneys. These are the risk factors that will determine if someone is going to get sick or not, baby or adult.

Most people don't understand mercury challenge tests because the chemistry is over their heads. That includes most doctors because they aren't familiar with the test. They think if they test the blood or urine for mercury, that some will be there if there's a problem. One reason mercury is so dangerous is that it binds with body tissues and interferes with enzyme systems by binding chemically. That means it "sticks" inside the body. So it won't be floating around in the blood. A challenge test uses a chelator that binds strongly to mercury to grab it away from body tissues so it ends up in the blood to be removed. Then you measure the mercury as it comes out in the urine. The Quackwatch idiot describes this as "articially raising" the levels of mercury in these tests to rip people off. That's how ignorant he is about basic chemistry. Any scientist who knows anything about mercury can tell you it binds and gets stuck inside the body because of its chemical nature.

from

[link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

"Reinforcing the hypothesis that the majority of injuries caused by methylmercury (MeHg) in the central nervous system are related to its ability to increase reactive oxygen species, Zhang et al. (2009) [20] reported that after pretreatment of bovine cells with pyrroloquinoline quinone (PQQ), an antioxidant, the cytotoxicity induced by MeHg is significantly attenuated. PQQ reduces the percentage of apoptotic cells, decreased significantly ROS production, suppressed lipid peroxidation, and increased antioxidant enzyme activity in cells exposed to MeHg. Furthermore, the protective effects elicited by an antioxidant (ebselen) strengthen the idea that seleno-organic compounds represent promising approaches to neutralize MeHg-induced neurotoxicity [19].

Studies also demonstrate that mercury has the ability to reduce the number of neuron and cytoarchitecture in individuals with prenatal exposure to mercury [76, 77]. In animal models, some of these symptoms are reproduced. Low-dose prenatal exposure to methylmercury during 10 gestational days impairs motor and mnemonic function in adult mice [23]. This hypothesis is supported by studies that describe methylmercury inhibition of cell division and migration both “in vivo” and “in vitro” [76–78].

In addition, because of its high affinity for sulfhydryl groups in tubulin, methylmercury inhibits the organization of microtubules that are important in CNS development [79–81]. The binding to SH groups also interferes with the intracellular signaling of multiple receptors (e.g., muscarinic, nicotinic, and dopaminergic) and promotes the blockade of Ca++ channels in neurons [82, 83]. In addition, inorganic mercury has the ability to increase the permeability of chloride channels of GABA A receptors in the dorsal root ganglion, which is associated with neuronal hyperpolarization [84].

Corroborating these findings, the study conducted by Maia et al., (2010) [21] demonstrates that the poisoning by methylmercury changes the nitrergic activities of adult mice, and the predominance of alterations may be related to different locations. Besides increasing the nitrergic activity methylmercury and mercuric chloride also have the ability to increase the release of neurotransmitters such as acetylcholine, dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin. Similar findings have also been reported to be a mechanism implicated in the effects of methylmercury and HgCl2 on the central nervous system function [85–89].

Halbach et al. [90] studied a correlation in Iraqi children between the level of maternal exposure to methylmercury during pregnancy and psychomotor retardation. Sandborgh-Englund et al. [91] corroborated this finding in children from the Faroe Islands; they found that children exposed to mercury in the prenatal period had defects in attention, memory, language, and motor function. In addition, exposure to methylmercury in pregnant women or early childhood leads to changes in the CNS development of the fetus or child, respectively [50, 92, 93]. Thereupon, changes caused by mercury poisoning result in significant clinical deficit in motor skills, coordination, and general activity rate of cognitive and psychological disorders [23]."


More relevant info on mercury:

[link to www.chemistryexplained.com]

[link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]


[link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

[link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]


[link to www.toxicteeth.org]

[link to video.google.com]


Sarcasm? You're the one that mentioned growing an extra arm. I'm hoping YOU were being sarcastic. Where do you get your info from? Is it all from Quackwatch and the FDA?
Forgive your enemies, it messes with their heads.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1550123
United States
09/07/2012 06:43 PM
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Re: If Vaccines don't cause Autism why is it a side effect listed on the package insert with the FDA!
how do we detox from vaccines? Or can we?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22395638


I've seen ionic footbaths detox people. Hair analysis before and after so many treatments were used by people to see if they were working. And they worked. One child who did have autism became a fully functioning child. The mother didn't have a hair analysis on the child but could see the difference like it was night and day. Guess that was proof for her it worked.

Chelation will also work.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 2045712
United Kingdom
09/07/2012 06:45 PM
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Re: If Vaccines don't cause Autism why is it a side effect listed on the package insert with the FDA!
Over the past several years, I have looked through dozens of message boards devoted to health because of my own interests. I paid particular attention to those involving mercury and autism. I have come across countless posts by mothers who reported their child was never the same after vaccines. The ignorant can quote all the FDA and government crap they want but it's obvious to anyone who does their homework that there's a correlation. The protocols that are working best for autism are those that involve gut health and chelation because they already know it's the mercury in the vaccines that is the root cause of the problem.

How are they ever going to do a study to prove it when the people who fund studies are the ones who will get sued? The vaccine and amalgam industries can't afford the lawsuits Everyone I know has been vaccinated and has mercury fillings in their mouths. The powers that be know it's bad but they can't admit it. It's like Monsanto not serving GM food in their own cafeteria.
 Quoting: Catseye


Oh, BTW, I don't ever remember a mom reporting an extra arm growing after vaccines were administered.
 Quoting: Catseye


Has everyone you know got autism? Or even a majority.
They've all had vaccines and mercury fillings so by your logic they should have.
I mean, that's the double whammy isn't it?

I'm hoping your last sentence was an attempt at sarcasm.
 Quoting: Cahill



The point was that mercury is so pervasive in our country that everyone would have an opportunity to sue if some study showed it caused all these horrific things - because we weren't adequately warned when we were given the vaccines or the fillings in our teeth. No, everyone I know does not have autism. The reason everyone doesn't get poisoned from mercury is because the elemental mercury in fillings and vaccines is normally detoxified by the body. But in some people, the elemental form of mercury is converted into the much more dangerous methyl mercury form and it is this that is causing some people to have problems. Some people may also have a problem excreting mercury properly and promptly. Not everyone gets sick because not everyone has a problem with yeast and bacteria, like a case of dysbiosis, or with their own body's detoxification ability by their liver and kidneys. These are the risk factors that will determine if someone is going to get sick or not, baby or adult.

Most people don't understand mercury challenge tests because the chemistry is over their heads. That includes most doctors because they aren't familiar with the test. They think if they test the blood or urine for mercury, that some will be there if there's a problem. One reason mercury is so dangerous is that it binds with body tissues and interferes with enzyme systems by binding chemically. That means it "sticks" inside the body. So it won't be floating around in the blood. A challenge test uses a chelator that binds strongly to mercury to grab it away from body tissues so it ends up in the blood to be removed. Then you measure the mercury as it comes out in the urine. The Quackwatch idiot describes this as "articially raising" the levels of mercury in these tests to rip people off. That's how ignorant he is about basic chemistry. Any scientist who knows anything about mercury can tell you it binds and gets stuck inside the body because of its chemical nature.

from

[link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

"Reinforcing the hypothesis that the majority of injuries caused by methylmercury (MeHg) in the central nervous system are related to its ability to increase reactive oxygen species, Zhang et al. (2009) [20] reported that after pretreatment of bovine cells with pyrroloquinoline quinone (PQQ), an antioxidant, the cytotoxicity induced by MeHg is significantly attenuated. PQQ reduces the percentage of apoptotic cells, decreased significantly ROS production, suppressed lipid peroxidation, and increased antioxidant enzyme activity in cells exposed to MeHg. Furthermore, the protective effects elicited by an antioxidant (ebselen) strengthen the idea that seleno-organic compounds represent promising approaches to neutralize MeHg-induced neurotoxicity [19].

Studies also demonstrate that mercury has the ability to reduce the number of neuron and cytoarchitecture in individuals with prenatal exposure to mercury [76, 77]. In animal models, some of these symptoms are reproduced. Low-dose prenatal exposure to methylmercury during 10 gestational days impairs motor and mnemonic function in adult mice [23]. This hypothesis is supported by studies that describe methylmercury inhibition of cell division and migration both “in vivo” and “in vitro” [76–78].

In addition, because of its high affinity for sulfhydryl groups in tubulin, methylmercury inhibits the organization of microtubules that are important in CNS development [79–81]. The binding to SH groups also interferes with the intracellular signaling of multiple receptors (e.g., muscarinic, nicotinic, and dopaminergic) and promotes the blockade of Ca++ channels in neurons [82, 83]. In addition, inorganic mercury has the ability to increase the permeability of chloride channels of GABA A receptors in the dorsal root ganglion, which is associated with neuronal hyperpolarization [84].

Corroborating these findings, the study conducted by Maia et al., (2010) [21] demonstrates that the poisoning by methylmercury changes the nitrergic activities of adult mice, and the predominance of alterations may be related to different locations. Besides increasing the nitrergic activity methylmercury and mercuric chloride also have the ability to increase the release of neurotransmitters such as acetylcholine, dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin. Similar findings have also been reported to be a mechanism implicated in the effects of methylmercury and HgCl2 on the central nervous system function [85–89].

Halbach et al. [90] studied a correlation in Iraqi children between the level of maternal exposure to methylmercury during pregnancy and psychomotor retardation. Sandborgh-Englund et al. [91] corroborated this finding in children from the Faroe Islands; they found that children exposed to mercury in the prenatal period had defects in attention, memory, language, and motor function. In addition, exposure to methylmercury in pregnant women or early childhood leads to changes in the CNS development of the fetus or child, respectively [50, 92, 93]. Thereupon, changes caused by mercury poisoning result in significant clinical deficit in motor skills, coordination, and general activity rate of cognitive and psychological disorders [23]."


More relevant info on mercury:

[link to www.chemistryexplained.com]

[link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]


[link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

[link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]


[link to www.toxicteeth.org]

[link to video.google.com]


Sarcasm? You're the one that mentioned growing an extra arm. I'm hoping YOU were being sarcastic. Where do you get your info from? Is it all from Quackwatch and the FDA?
 Quoting: Catseye

I fully agree about the dangers of mercury poisoning. It's truly nasty stuff, particularly mercury vapour which is one of the reasons you can't get a mercury filled thermometer these days.
Methyl mercury poisoned fish is certainly a no-no for expectant mothers and the such like. I doubt if I'd eat them either.

However, your second paragraph starts off with a very familiar patronising stance. "The chemistry is over their heads" and certainly in my eyes that's where your argument starts to disintegrate.
If mercury combines chemically with enzymes please explain then how it "sticks" inside the body.
If it's not floating around in the body are these enzymes it has combined with stuck somewhere too? Does the mercury seek out these enzymes or vice versa?

I'm guessing your chemistry (it's biochemistry by the way) has been gleaned from the world renowned Dr Mercola or his ilk which would speak volumes. I'm also guessing that you would promote mercury chelation techniques for autistic children too?

Just a point of interest where did you copy and paste your post from as it plain that it's a regurgitant.

And for your information my knowledge comes from my experience in working in medicine for over a quarter of a century.
That's REAL medicine by the way, not Internet "medicine".
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 14899339
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09/07/2012 06:46 PM
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Re: If Vaccines don't cause Autism why is it a side effect listed on the package insert with the FDA!
The people are getting dumber all the time.
The children are dieing and getting autism from the vaccines.
They eat crap for food so they will never recover.

Do these autistic children grow up and have babies?
Are their children then born autistic? They must be dumber than the parents at least.

But people are in denial "Oh my doctor wouldn't give me a shot that could harm me or my kids".
It's like the pedaphile priests. People just keep trusting them.
 Quoting: Half Past Midnight


Here's the pillow talk from two autistic people.

" "

" "

/scene
Anonymous Coward
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09/07/2012 07:26 PM
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Re: If Vaccines don't cause Autism why is it a side effect listed on the package insert with the FDA!
You are not suppose to be able to read/comprehend those package inserts OP

move on
stillhere

User ID: 16315970
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09/07/2012 07:36 PM

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Re: If Vaccines don't cause Autism why is it a side effect listed on the package insert with the FDA!
And for your information my knowledge comes from my experience in working in medicine for over a quarter of a century.
That's REAL medicine by the way, not Internet "medicine".
 Quoting: Cahill


Well.....Mr. Real Medicine.....Every time I go to the Dr. they have 10 to 15 minutes to give me canned info, and prescribe something that I will never take.

They never know how it all turns out--never. I don't know you, but the way our medical system is set up I believe most Dr.s assume that what they prescribed worked. They don't follow up, they never see the ones who didn't like what they had to offer again.

I would say it is like getting a bad haircut--would you go back to the same hair dresser and say "I didn't like the way you cut my hair, it looks bad, I want you to do it again"....no, who would give the hairdresser another chance to wreck your hair?

But....the hair dresser walks around with a BIG head thinking all his customers loved his work.

If I had a medical problem and went to a Dr. and their solution didn't work and I found another solution that did, would I pay to go back to the Dr. and teach them what worked for me--on my nickel???? No way.

Tell me about the nutrition classes you took in medical school???

Like I said, I don't know you, but you seem to have a "I'm better than you" attitude.
"You can bend it and twist it... You can misuse and abuse it... But even God cannot change the Truth.”
Michael Levy
Anonymous Coward
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Canada
09/07/2012 07:41 PM
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Re: If Vaccines don't cause Autism why is it a side effect listed on the package insert with the FDA!
autism is a eupenism for brain damage induced by the dark alchemists- soon the robots will be in your house to administer the nebulized alchemy-muhaaaaahaaaa
Anonymous Coward
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09/07/2012 07:44 PM
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Re: If Vaccines don't cause Autism why is it a side effect listed on the package insert with the FDA!
goodnews
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 2045712
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09/07/2012 07:49 PM
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Re: If Vaccines don't cause Autism why is it a side effect listed on the package insert with the FDA!
And for your information my knowledge comes from my experience in working in medicine for over a quarter of a century.
That's REAL medicine by the way, not Internet "medicine".
 Quoting: Cahill


Well.....Mr. Real Medicine.....Every time I go to the Dr. they have 10 to 15 minutes to give me canned info, and prescribe something that I will never take.

They never know how it all turns out--never. I don't know you, but the way our medical system is set up I believe most Dr.s assume that what they prescribed worked. They don't follow up, they never see the ones who didn't like what they had to offer again.

I would say it is like getting a bad haircut--would you go back to the same hair dresser and say "I didn't like the way you cut my hair, it looks bad, I want you to do it again"....no, who would give the hairdresser another chance to wreck your hair?

But....the hair dresser walks around with a BIG head thinking all his customers loved his work.

If I had a medical problem and went to a Dr. and their solution didn't work and I found another solution that did, would I pay to go back to the Dr. and teach them what worked for me--on my nickel???? No way.

Tell me about the nutrition classes you took in medical school???

Like I said, I don't know you, but you seem to have a "I'm better than you" attitude.
 Quoting: stillhere

Well, I'm not a physician and I'd certainly agree with you that you have a choice. That's your prerogative. if you think there's an arrogance about them or me then fine, you're allowed your opinion.
What I've sort of fallen into here (feel free to trawl all of my other posts) is to point out why certain methods and cures won't and don't work and why certain notions about various forms or medicine are nonsense. What I don't and won't do is suggest alternatives or actively promote specific treatments.
I certainly don't have an "i'm better than you attitude" as you suggest however do I know more about medicine than the vast majority of people who post on this board? Probably.
Can I sniff out witch-doctoring on this board? Most definitely.
Anonymous Coward
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09/07/2012 07:54 PM
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Re: If Vaccines don't cause Autism why is it a side effect listed on the package insert with the FDA!
Say my name 3 times and I will duly appear...

The problem with the first post is the omission of quite an important part of the FDA sheet.

I'll c & p the paragraphs which are paraphrased above and highlight the important part.

Adverse events reported during post-approval use of Tripedia vaccine include idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura, SIDS, anaphylactic reaction, cellulitis, autism, convulsion/grand mal convulsion, encephalopathy, hypotonia, neuropathy, somnolence and apnea. Events were included in this list because of the seriousness or frequency of reporting. Because these events are reported voluntarily from a population of uncertain size, it is not always possible to reliably estimate their frequencies or to establish a causal relationship to components of Tripedia vaccine.2
Reporting of Adverse Events
The National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program, established by the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986, requires physicians and other health-care providers who administer vaccines to maintain permanent vaccination records of the manufacturer and lot number of the vaccine administered in the vaccine recipient’s permanent medical record along with the date of administration of the vaccine and the name, address and title of the person administering the vaccine. The Act (or statute) further requires the health-care professional to report to the Secretary of the US Department of Health and Human Services, the occurrence following immunization of any events set forth in the statute or the Vaccine Injury Table, including anaphylaxis or anaphylactic shock within 7 days; encephalopathy or encephalitis within 7 days, brachial neuritis within 28 days; or an acute complication or sequelae (including death) of an illness, disability, injury, or condition referred to above, or any events that would contraindicate further doses of vaccine, according to this Tripedia vaccine package insert.38,39
Reporting by parents or guardians of all adverse events after vaccine administration should be encouraged. Adverse events following immunization with vaccines should be reported by health-care providers to Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS).



Regardless of whether or not an event is actually connected to a drug it should be reported. This is encouraged. These events also have to be recorded in the drug sheet as seen above.

But feel free just to sensationalise the parts which just fill your agenda.
Tell you one thing, you are good at selective reporting.
 Quoting: Cahill


So Sunshine, let me get this straight: Everyone, except for you, has an agenda?

Ever consider that it is YOU who has the agenda?


Ask yourself this question: Who/What benefits are received by spreading information indicating that vaccines are linked to autism?
Light to Go

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09/07/2012 07:57 PM

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Re: If Vaccines don't cause Autism why is it a side effect listed on the package insert with the FDA!
Why do they put mercury in vaccines anyway? It is poison to the human body, I sincerely don't know why they do it?
Truth Seeker
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pink cat

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09/07/2012 07:57 PM
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Re: If Vaccines don't cause Autism why is it a side effect listed on the package insert with the FDA!
If you want another theory about Autism and how it can be cured read

"GUT & PSYCHOLOGY SYNDROME" written by Dr. Nataha Campbell-McBride

She is a Neurologist and got her masters in nutrition to help her to cure her son's autism. Today her son is fine.

According to Dr. Campbell-McBride the MMR vaccine can be the last straw that sends a child into full blown Autism, but that child had a compromised immune system before the shot.

The cure--heal the gut. The immune system is based in the gut, the flora gets unbalanced from antibiotics, certain foods, flora passed on from the mother....

[link to www.gapsdiet.com]

The cure for almost any disease starts with healing the gut which allows the immune system to do it's job--this diet can help anyone suffering from:

Autism

Allergies

ADD

ADHD

Depression

Dyslexia

Schizphrenia

and almost anything wrong with the mind or body that is caused by a weakened immune system.
 Quoting: stillhere


that looks very interesting, thanks for the link :)
+++ with a bunny hat +++
Anonymous Coward
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09/07/2012 08:03 PM
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Re: If Vaccines don't cause Autism why is it a side effect listed on the package insert with the FDA!
...


Oh, BTW, I don't ever remember a mom reporting an extra arm growing after vaccines were administered.
 Quoting: Catseye


Has everyone you know got autism? Or even a majority.
They've all had vaccines and mercury fillings so by your logic they should have.
I mean, that's the double whammy isn't it?

I'm hoping your last sentence was an attempt at sarcasm.
 Quoting: Cahill



The point was that mercury is so pervasive in our country that everyone would have an opportunity to sue if some study showed it caused all these horrific things - because we weren't adequately warned when we were given the vaccines or the fillings in our teeth. No, everyone I know does not have autism. The reason everyone doesn't get poisoned from mercury is because the elemental mercury in fillings and vaccines is normally detoxified by the body. But in some people, the elemental form of mercury is converted into the much more dangerous methyl mercury form and it is this that is causing some people to have problems. Some people may also have a problem excreting mercury properly and promptly. Not everyone gets sick because not everyone has a problem with yeast and bacteria, like a case of dysbiosis, or with their own body's detoxification ability by their liver and kidneys. These are the risk factors that will determine if someone is going to get sick or not, baby or adult.

Most people don't understand mercury challenge tests because the chemistry is over their heads. That includes most doctors because they aren't familiar with the test. They think if they test the blood or urine for mercury, that some will be there if there's a problem. One reason mercury is so dangerous is that it binds with body tissues and interferes with enzyme systems by binding chemically. That means it "sticks" inside the body. So it won't be floating around in the blood. A challenge test uses a chelator that binds strongly to mercury to grab it away from body tissues so it ends up in the blood to be removed. Then you measure the mercury as it comes out in the urine. The Quackwatch idiot describes this as "articially raising" the levels of mercury in these tests to rip people off. That's how ignorant he is about basic chemistry. Any scientist who knows anything about mercury can tell you it binds and gets stuck inside the body because of its chemical nature.

from

[link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

"Reinforcing the hypothesis that the majority of injuries caused by methylmercury (MeHg) in the central nervous system are related to its ability to increase reactive oxygen species, Zhang et al. (2009) [20] reported that after pretreatment of bovine cells with pyrroloquinoline quinone (PQQ), an antioxidant, the cytotoxicity induced by MeHg is significantly attenuated. PQQ reduces the percentage of apoptotic cells, decreased significantly ROS production, suppressed lipid peroxidation, and increased antioxidant enzyme activity in cells exposed to MeHg. Furthermore, the protective effects elicited by an antioxidant (ebselen) strengthen the idea that seleno-organic compounds represent promising approaches to neutralize MeHg-induced neurotoxicity [19].

Studies also demonstrate that mercury has the ability to reduce the number of neuron and cytoarchitecture in individuals with prenatal exposure to mercury [76, 77]. In animal models, some of these symptoms are reproduced. Low-dose prenatal exposure to methylmercury during 10 gestational days impairs motor and mnemonic function in adult mice [23]. This hypothesis is supported by studies that describe methylmercury inhibition of cell division and migration both “in vivo” and “in vitro” [76–78].

In addition, because of its high affinity for sulfhydryl groups in tubulin, methylmercury inhibits the organization of microtubules that are important in CNS development [79–81]. The binding to SH groups also interferes with the intracellular signaling of multiple receptors (e.g., muscarinic, nicotinic, and dopaminergic) and promotes the blockade of Ca++ channels in neurons [82, 83]. In addition, inorganic mercury has the ability to increase the permeability of chloride channels of GABA A receptors in the dorsal root ganglion, which is associated with neuronal hyperpolarization [84].

Corroborating these findings, the study conducted by Maia et al., (2010) [21] demonstrates that the poisoning by methylmercury changes the nitrergic activities of adult mice, and the predominance of alterations may be related to different locations. Besides increasing the nitrergic activity methylmercury and mercuric chloride also have the ability to increase the release of neurotransmitters such as acetylcholine, dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin. Similar findings have also been reported to be a mechanism implicated in the effects of methylmercury and HgCl2 on the central nervous system function [85–89].

Halbach et al. [90] studied a correlation in Iraqi children between the level of maternal exposure to methylmercury during pregnancy and psychomotor retardation. Sandborgh-Englund et al. [91] corroborated this finding in children from the Faroe Islands; they found that children exposed to mercury in the prenatal period had defects in attention, memory, language, and motor function. In addition, exposure to methylmercury in pregnant women or early childhood leads to changes in the CNS development of the fetus or child, respectively [50, 92, 93]. Thereupon, changes caused by mercury poisoning result in significant clinical deficit in motor skills, coordination, and general activity rate of cognitive and psychological disorders [23]."


More relevant info on mercury:

[link to www.chemistryexplained.com]

[link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]


[link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

[link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]


[link to www.toxicteeth.org]

[link to video.google.com]


Sarcasm? You're the one that mentioned growing an extra arm. I'm hoping YOU were being sarcastic. Where do you get your info from? Is it all from Quackwatch and the FDA?
 Quoting: Catseye

I fully agree about the dangers of mercury poisoning. It's truly nasty stuff, particularly mercury vapour which is one of the reasons you can't get a mercury filled thermometer these days.
Methyl mercury poisoned fish is certainly a no-no for expectant mothers and the such like. I doubt if I'd eat them either.

However, your second paragraph starts off with a very familiar patronising stance. "The chemistry is over their heads" and certainly in my eyes that's where your argument starts to disintegrate.
If mercury combines chemically with enzymes please explain then how it "sticks" inside the body.
If it's not floating around in the body are these enzymes it has combined with stuck somewhere too? Does the mercury seek out these enzymes or vice versa?


I'm guessing your chemistry (it's biochemistry by the way) has been gleaned from the world renowned Dr Mercola or his ilk which would speak volumes. I'm also guessing that you would promote mercury chelation techniques for autistic children too?

Just a point of interest where did you copy and paste your post from as it plain that it's a regurgitant.

And for your information my knowledge comes from my experience in working in medicine for over a quarter of a century.
That's REAL medicine by the way, not Internet "medicine".
 Quoting: Cahill


Woah Chief, you need to back up a few posts before we continue further.

The AC above never said that mercury chemically bound itself to enzymes... anyone with a basic knowledge of chemistry could tell you this can't happen. He said that mercury interferes with enzyme systems, which is definitely plausible. Hypothetically speaking, if mercury were to destroy or disable, for example a bacteria-eating enzyme, it would have catastrophic effects on the body.

Plenty of shit gets stuck in our bodies in substance called FAT. When you burn the fat that has shit stored in it, you release said shit into your bloodstream, where it has its negative effects.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 2045712
United Kingdom
09/07/2012 08:04 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: If Vaccines don't cause Autism why is it a side effect listed on the package insert with the FDA!
Say my name 3 times and I will duly appear...

The problem with the first post is the omission of quite an important part of the FDA sheet.

I'll c & p the paragraphs which are paraphrased above and highlight the important part.

Adverse events reported during post-approval use of Tripedia vaccine include idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura, SIDS, anaphylactic reaction, cellulitis, autism, convulsion/grand mal convulsion, encephalopathy, hypotonia, neuropathy, somnolence and apnea. Events were included in this list because of the seriousness or frequency of reporting. Because these events are reported voluntarily from a population of uncertain size, it is not always possible to reliably estimate their frequencies or to establish a causal relationship to components of Tripedia vaccine.2
Reporting of Adverse Events
The National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program, established by the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986, requires physicians and other health-care providers who administer vaccines to maintain permanent vaccination records of the manufacturer and lot number of the vaccine administered in the vaccine recipient’s permanent medical record along with the date of administration of the vaccine and the name, address and title of the person administering the vaccine. The Act (or statute) further requires the health-care professional to report to the Secretary of the US Department of Health and Human Services, the occurrence following immunization of any events set forth in the statute or the Vaccine Injury Table, including anaphylaxis or anaphylactic shock within 7 days; encephalopathy or encephalitis within 7 days, brachial neuritis within 28 days; or an acute complication or sequelae (including death) of an illness, disability, injury, or condition referred to above, or any events that would contraindicate further doses of vaccine, according to this Tripedia vaccine package insert.38,39
Reporting by parents or guardians of all adverse events after vaccine administration should be encouraged. Adverse events following immunization with vaccines should be reported by health-care providers to Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS).



Regardless of whether or not an event is actually connected to a drug it should be reported. This is encouraged. These events also have to be recorded in the drug sheet as seen above.

But feel free just to sensationalise the parts which just fill your agenda.
Tell you one thing, you are good at selective reporting.
 Quoting: Cahill


So Sunshine, let me get this straight: Everyone, except for you, has an agenda?

Ever consider that it is YOU who has the agenda?


Ask yourself this question: Who/What benefits are received by spreading information indicating that vaccines are linked to autism?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16151153


No Moondust, EVERYONE doesn't have an agenda. I was specifically mentioning the op.

I certainly do have an agenda. It is to counter the bullshit spread on sites like this about various aspects of medicine which are generally very emotive so they are easily susceptible to falsehoods.

The benefits are to the charlatans and fraudsters pretending to have the treatments and cures for autism etc etc etc etc in buying their books, DVDs, natural therapies et al.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 16151153
United States
09/07/2012 08:06 PM
Report Abusive Post
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Re: If Vaccines don't cause Autism why is it a side effect listed on the package insert with the FDA!
Why do they put mercury in vaccines anyway? It is poison to the human body, I sincerely don't know why they do it?
 Quoting: Light to Go


Because profits are put before the welfare of human beings.


Just like those compact fluorescent light-bulbs (CFLs) that are "energy efficient" and "good for the environment." They too contain mercury, and while some people will tell you that it's such a minute amount that it's harmless consider this: Truck drivers who transport mercury-filled fluorescent lights are TRAINED to GET THE FUCK OUT OF THE TRUCK (true emphasis, BTW) if a bulb were to break during transit.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 2045712
United Kingdom
09/07/2012 08:09 PM
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Re: If Vaccines don't cause Autism why is it a side effect listed on the package insert with the FDA!
...


Has everyone you know got autism? Or even a majority.
They've all had vaccines and mercury fillings so by your logic they should have.
I mean, that's the double whammy isn't it?

I'm hoping your last sentence was an attempt at sarcasm.
 Quoting: Cahill



The point was that mercury is so pervasive in our country that everyone would have an opportunity to sue if some study showed it caused all these horrific things - because we weren't adequately warned when we were given the vaccines or the fillings in our teeth. No, everyone I know does not have autism. The reason everyone doesn't get poisoned from mercury is because the elemental mercury in fillings and vaccines is normally detoxified by the body. But in some people, the elemental form of mercury is converted into the much more dangerous methyl mercury form and it is this that is causing some people to have problems. Some people may also have a problem excreting mercury properly and promptly. Not everyone gets sick because not everyone has a problem with yeast and bacteria, like a case of dysbiosis, or with their own body's detoxification ability by their liver and kidneys. These are the risk factors that will determine if someone is going to get sick or not, baby or adult.

Most people don't understand mercury challenge tests because the chemistry is over their heads. That includes most doctors because they aren't familiar with the test. They think if they test the blood or urine for mercury, that some will be there if there's a problem. One reason mercury is so dangerous is that it binds with body tissues and interferes with enzyme systems by binding chemically. That means it "sticks" inside the body. So it won't be floating around in the blood. A challenge test uses a chelator that binds strongly to mercury to grab it away from body tissues so it ends up in the blood to be removed. Then you measure the mercury as it comes out in the urine. The Quackwatch idiot describes this as "articially raising" the levels of mercury in these tests to rip people off. That's how ignorant he is about basic chemistry. Any scientist who knows anything about mercury can tell you it binds and gets stuck inside the body because of its chemical nature.

from

[link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

"Reinforcing the hypothesis that the majority of injuries caused by methylmercury (MeHg) in the central nervous system are related to its ability to increase reactive oxygen species, Zhang et al. (2009) [20] reported that after pretreatment of bovine cells with pyrroloquinoline quinone (PQQ), an antioxidant, the cytotoxicity induced by MeHg is significantly attenuated. PQQ reduces the percentage of apoptotic cells, decreased significantly ROS production, suppressed lipid peroxidation, and increased antioxidant enzyme activity in cells exposed to MeHg. Furthermore, the protective effects elicited by an antioxidant (ebselen) strengthen the idea that seleno-organic compounds represent promising approaches to neutralize MeHg-induced neurotoxicity [19].

Studies also demonstrate that mercury has the ability to reduce the number of neuron and cytoarchitecture in individuals with prenatal exposure to mercury [76, 77]. In animal models, some of these symptoms are reproduced. Low-dose prenatal exposure to methylmercury during 10 gestational days impairs motor and mnemonic function in adult mice [23]. This hypothesis is supported by studies that describe methylmercury inhibition of cell division and migration both “in vivo” and “in vitro” [76–78].

In addition, because of its high affinity for sulfhydryl groups in tubulin, methylmercury inhibits the organization of microtubules that are important in CNS development [79–81]. The binding to SH groups also interferes with the intracellular signaling of multiple receptors (e.g., muscarinic, nicotinic, and dopaminergic) and promotes the blockade of Ca++ channels in neurons [82, 83]. In addition, inorganic mercury has the ability to increase the permeability of chloride channels of GABA A receptors in the dorsal root ganglion, which is associated with neuronal hyperpolarization [84].

Corroborating these findings, the study conducted by Maia et al., (2010) [21] demonstrates that the poisoning by methylmercury changes the nitrergic activities of adult mice, and the predominance of alterations may be related to different locations. Besides increasing the nitrergic activity methylmercury and mercuric chloride also have the ability to increase the release of neurotransmitters such as acetylcholine, dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin. Similar findings have also been reported to be a mechanism implicated in the effects of methylmercury and HgCl2 on the central nervous system function [85–89].

Halbach et al. [90] studied a correlation in Iraqi children between the level of maternal exposure to methylmercury during pregnancy and psychomotor retardation. Sandborgh-Englund et al. [91] corroborated this finding in children from the Faroe Islands; they found that children exposed to mercury in the prenatal period had defects in attention, memory, language, and motor function. In addition, exposure to methylmercury in pregnant women or early childhood leads to changes in the CNS development of the fetus or child, respectively [50, 92, 93]. Thereupon, changes caused by mercury poisoning result in significant clinical deficit in motor skills, coordination, and general activity rate of cognitive and psychological disorders [23]."


More relevant info on mercury:

[link to www.chemistryexplained.com]

[link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]


[link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

[link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]


[link to www.toxicteeth.org]

[link to video.google.com]


Sarcasm? You're the one that mentioned growing an extra arm. I'm hoping YOU were being sarcastic. Where do you get your info from? Is it all from Quackwatch and the FDA?
 Quoting: Catseye

I fully agree about the dangers of mercury poisoning. It's truly nasty stuff, particularly mercury vapour which is one of the reasons you can't get a mercury filled thermometer these days.
Methyl mercury poisoned fish is certainly a no-no for expectant mothers and the such like. I doubt if I'd eat them either.

However, your second paragraph starts off with a very familiar patronising stance. "The chemistry is over their heads" and certainly in my eyes that's where your argument starts to disintegrate.
If mercury combines chemically with enzymes please explain then how it "sticks" inside the body.
If it's not floating around in the body are these enzymes it has combined with stuck somewhere too? Does the mercury seek out these enzymes or vice versa?


I'm guessing your chemistry (it's biochemistry by the way) has been gleaned from the world renowned Dr Mercola or his ilk which would speak volumes. I'm also guessing that you would promote mercury chelation techniques for autistic children too?

Just a point of interest where did you copy and paste your post from as it plain that it's a regurgitant.

And for your information my knowledge comes from my experience in working in medicine for over a quarter of a century.
That's REAL medicine by the way, not Internet "medicine".
 Quoting: Cahill


Woah Chief, you need to back up a few posts before we continue further.

The AC above never said that mercury chemically bound itself to enzymes... anyone with a basic knowledge of chemistry could tell you this can't happen. He said that mercury interferes with enzyme systems, which is definitely plausible. Hypothetically speaking, if mercury were to destroy or disable, for example a bacteria-eating enzyme, it would have catastrophic effects on the body.

Plenty of shit gets stuck in our bodies in substance called FAT. When you burn the fat that has shit stored in it, you release said shit into your bloodstream, where it has its negative effects.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16151153

Did I read this part incorrectly then?

One reason mercury is so dangerous is that it binds with body tissues and interferes with enzyme systems by binding chemically. That means it "sticks" inside the body. So it won't be floating around in the blood.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 16151153
United States
09/07/2012 08:09 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: If Vaccines don't cause Autism why is it a side effect listed on the package insert with the FDA!
Say my name 3 times and I will duly appear...

The problem with the first post is the omission of quite an important part of the FDA sheet.

I'll c & p the paragraphs which are paraphrased above and highlight the important part.

Adverse events reported during post-approval use of Tripedia vaccine include idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura, SIDS, anaphylactic reaction, cellulitis, autism, convulsion/grand mal convulsion, encephalopathy, hypotonia, neuropathy, somnolence and apnea. Events were included in this list because of the seriousness or frequency of reporting. Because these events are reported voluntarily from a population of uncertain size, it is not always possible to reliably estimate their frequencies or to establish a causal relationship to components of Tripedia vaccine.2
Reporting of Adverse Events
The National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program, established by the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986, requires physicians and other health-care providers who administer vaccines to maintain permanent vaccination records of the manufacturer and lot number of the vaccine administered in the vaccine recipient’s permanent medical record along with the date of administration of the vaccine and the name, address and title of the person administering the vaccine. The Act (or statute) further requires the health-care professional to report to the Secretary of the US Department of Health and Human Services, the occurrence following immunization of any events set forth in the statute or the Vaccine Injury Table, including anaphylaxis or anaphylactic shock within 7 days; encephalopathy or encephalitis within 7 days, brachial neuritis within 28 days; or an acute complication or sequelae (including death) of an illness, disability, injury, or condition referred to above, or any events that would contraindicate further doses of vaccine, according to this Tripedia vaccine package insert.38,39
Reporting by parents or guardians of all adverse events after vaccine administration should be encouraged. Adverse events following immunization with vaccines should be reported by health-care providers to Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS).



Regardless of whether or not an event is actually connected to a drug it should be reported. This is encouraged. These events also have to be recorded in the drug sheet as seen above.

But feel free just to sensationalise the parts which just fill your agenda.
Tell you one thing, you are good at selective reporting.
 Quoting: Cahill


So Sunshine, let me get this straight: Everyone, except for you, has an agenda?

Ever consider that it is YOU who has the agenda?


Ask yourself this question: Who/What benefits are received by spreading information indicating that vaccines are linked to autism?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16151153


No Moondust, EVERYONE doesn't have an agenda. I was specifically mentioning the op.

I certainly do have an agenda. It is to counter the bullshit spread on sites like this about various aspects of medicine which are generally very emotive so they are easily susceptible to falsehoods.

The benefits are to the charlatans and fraudsters pretending to have the treatments and cures for autism etc etc etc etc in buying their books, DVDs, natural therapies et al.
 Quoting: Cahill


Well if you fall for that bullshit after falling for the big-pharma bullshit you may have coming just what you deserve.

Informing people of the dangers that mercury-infused vaccines pose doesn't necessarily mean that one has an agenda. To the best of my knowledge the OP is not pushing some medication or book of his own production.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 16151153
United States
09/07/2012 08:12 PM
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Re: If Vaccines don't cause Autism why is it a side effect listed on the package insert with the FDA!
...



The point was that mercury is so pervasive in our country that everyone would have an opportunity to sue if some study showed it caused all these horrific things - because we weren't adequately warned when we were given the vaccines or the fillings in our teeth. No, everyone I know does not have autism. The reason everyone doesn't get poisoned from mercury is because the elemental mercury in fillings and vaccines is normally detoxified by the body. But in some people, the elemental form of mercury is converted into the much more dangerous methyl mercury form and it is this that is causing some people to have problems. Some people may also have a problem excreting mercury properly and promptly. Not everyone gets sick because not everyone has a problem with yeast and bacteria, like a case of dysbiosis, or with their own body's detoxification ability by their liver and kidneys. These are the risk factors that will determine if someone is going to get sick or not, baby or adult.

Most people don't understand mercury challenge tests because the chemistry is over their heads. That includes most doctors because they aren't familiar with the test. They think if they test the blood or urine for mercury, that some will be there if there's a problem. One reason mercury is so dangerous is that it binds with body tissues and interferes with enzyme systems by binding chemically. That means it "sticks" inside the body. So it won't be floating around in the blood. A challenge test uses a chelator that binds strongly to mercury to grab it away from body tissues so it ends up in the blood to be removed. Then you measure the mercury as it comes out in the urine. The Quackwatch idiot describes this as "articially raising" the levels of mercury in these tests to rip people off. That's how ignorant he is about basic chemistry. Any scientist who knows anything about mercury can tell you it binds and gets stuck inside the body because of its chemical nature.

from

[link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

"Reinforcing the hypothesis that the majority of injuries caused by methylmercury (MeHg) in the central nervous system are related to its ability to increase reactive oxygen species, Zhang et al. (2009) [20] reported that after pretreatment of bovine cells with pyrroloquinoline quinone (PQQ), an antioxidant, the cytotoxicity induced by MeHg is significantly attenuated. PQQ reduces the percentage of apoptotic cells, decreased significantly ROS production, suppressed lipid peroxidation, and increased antioxidant enzyme activity in cells exposed to MeHg. Furthermore, the protective effects elicited by an antioxidant (ebselen) strengthen the idea that seleno-organic compounds represent promising approaches to neutralize MeHg-induced neurotoxicity [19].

Studies also demonstrate that mercury has the ability to reduce the number of neuron and cytoarchitecture in individuals with prenatal exposure to mercury [76, 77]. In animal models, some of these symptoms are reproduced. Low-dose prenatal exposure to methylmercury during 10 gestational days impairs motor and mnemonic function in adult mice [23]. This hypothesis is supported by studies that describe methylmercury inhibition of cell division and migration both “in vivo” and “in vitro” [76–78].

In addition, because of its high affinity for sulfhydryl groups in tubulin, methylmercury inhibits the organization of microtubules that are important in CNS development [79–81]. The binding to SH groups also interferes with the intracellular signaling of multiple receptors (e.g., muscarinic, nicotinic, and dopaminergic) and promotes the blockade of Ca++ channels in neurons [82, 83]. In addition, inorganic mercury has the ability to increase the permeability of chloride channels of GABA A receptors in the dorsal root ganglion, which is associated with neuronal hyperpolarization [84].

Corroborating these findings, the study conducted by Maia et al., (2010) [21] demonstrates that the poisoning by methylmercury changes the nitrergic activities of adult mice, and the predominance of alterations may be related to different locations. Besides increasing the nitrergic activity methylmercury and mercuric chloride also have the ability to increase the release of neurotransmitters such as acetylcholine, dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin. Similar findings have also been reported to be a mechanism implicated in the effects of methylmercury and HgCl2 on the central nervous system function [85–89].

Halbach et al. [90] studied a correlation in Iraqi children between the level of maternal exposure to methylmercury during pregnancy and psychomotor retardation. Sandborgh-Englund et al. [91] corroborated this finding in children from the Faroe Islands; they found that children exposed to mercury in the prenatal period had defects in attention, memory, language, and motor function. In addition, exposure to methylmercury in pregnant women or early childhood leads to changes in the CNS development of the fetus or child, respectively [50, 92, 93]. Thereupon, changes caused by mercury poisoning result in significant clinical deficit in motor skills, coordination, and general activity rate of cognitive and psychological disorders [23]."


More relevant info on mercury:

[link to www.chemistryexplained.com]

[link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]


[link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

[link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]


[link to www.toxicteeth.org]

[link to video.google.com]


Sarcasm? You're the one that mentioned growing an extra arm. I'm hoping YOU were being sarcastic. Where do you get your info from? Is it all from Quackwatch and the FDA?
 Quoting: Catseye

I fully agree about the dangers of mercury poisoning. It's truly nasty stuff, particularly mercury vapour which is one of the reasons you can't get a mercury filled thermometer these days.
Methyl mercury poisoned fish is certainly a no-no for expectant mothers and the such like. I doubt if I'd eat them either.

However, your second paragraph starts off with a very familiar patronising stance. "The chemistry is over their heads" and certainly in my eyes that's where your argument starts to disintegrate.
If mercury combines chemically with enzymes please explain then how it "sticks" inside the body.
If it's not floating around in the body are these enzymes it has combined with stuck somewhere too? Does the mercury seek out these enzymes or vice versa?


I'm guessing your chemistry (it's biochemistry by the way) has been gleaned from the world renowned Dr Mercola or his ilk which would speak volumes. I'm also guessing that you would promote mercury chelation techniques for autistic children too?

Just a point of interest where did you copy and paste your post from as it plain that it's a regurgitant.

And for your information my knowledge comes from my experience in working in medicine for over a quarter of a century.
That's REAL medicine by the way, not Internet "medicine".
 Quoting: Cahill


Woah Chief, you need to back up a few posts before we continue further.

The AC above never said that mercury chemically bound itself to enzymes... anyone with a basic knowledge of chemistry could tell you this can't happen. He said that mercury interferes with enzyme systems, which is definitely plausible. Hypothetically speaking, if mercury were to destroy or disable, for example a bacteria-eating enzyme, it would have catastrophic effects on the body.

Plenty of shit gets stuck in our bodies in substance called FAT. When you burn the fat that has shit stored in it, you release said shit into your bloodstream, where it has its negative effects.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16151153

Did I read this part incorrectly then?

One reason mercury is so dangerous is that it binds with body tissues and interferes with enzyme systems by binding chemically. That means it "sticks" inside the body. So it won't be floating around in the blood.
 Quoting: Cahill


Perhaps you did.

My understanding of what he wrote is that it mercury is stored in fat (stuck in the body).

I do see how you could perceive it as you are now, and with that being said there is no reason that mercury couldn't chemically bind to enzymes/elements in the body that are open to some form of hydrogen bond with mercury.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 2045712
United Kingdom
09/07/2012 08:15 PM
Report Abusive Post
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Re: If Vaccines don't cause Autism why is it a side effect listed on the package insert with the FDA!
Say my name 3 times and I will duly appear...

The problem with the first post is the omission of quite an important part of the FDA sheet.

I'll c & p the paragraphs which are paraphrased above and highlight the important part.

Adverse events reported during post-approval use of Tripedia vaccine include idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura, SIDS, anaphylactic reaction, cellulitis, autism, convulsion/grand mal convulsion, encephalopathy, hypotonia, neuropathy, somnolence and apnea. Events were included in this list because of the seriousness or frequency of reporting. Because these events are reported voluntarily from a population of uncertain size, it is not always possible to reliably estimate their frequencies or to establish a causal relationship to components of Tripedia vaccine.2
Reporting of Adverse Events
The National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program, established by the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986, requires physicians and other health-care providers who administer vaccines to maintain permanent vaccination records of the manufacturer and lot number of the vaccine administered in the vaccine recipient’s permanent medical record along with the date of administration of the vaccine and the name, address and title of the person administering the vaccine. The Act (or statute) further requires the health-care professional to report to the Secretary of the US Department of Health and Human Services, the occurrence following immunization of any events set forth in the statute or the Vaccine Injury Table, including anaphylaxis or anaphylactic shock within 7 days; encephalopathy or encephalitis within 7 days, brachial neuritis within 28 days; or an acute complication or sequelae (including death) of an illness, disability, injury, or condition referred to above, or any events that would contraindicate further doses of vaccine, according to this Tripedia vaccine package insert.38,39
Reporting by parents or guardians of all adverse events after vaccine administration should be encouraged. Adverse events following immunization with vaccines should be reported by health-care providers to Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS).



Regardless of whether or not an event is actually connected to a drug it should be reported. This is encouraged. These events also have to be recorded in the drug sheet as seen above.

But feel free just to sensationalise the parts which just fill your agenda.
Tell you one thing, you are good at selective reporting.
 Quoting: Cahill


So Sunshine, let me get this straight: Everyone, except for you, has an agenda?

Ever consider that it is YOU who has the agenda?


Ask yourself this question: Who/What benefits are received by spreading information indicating that vaccines are linked to autism?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16151153


No Moondust, EVERYONE doesn't have an agenda. I was specifically mentioning the op.

I certainly do have an agenda. It is to counter the bullshit spread on sites like this about various aspects of medicine which are generally very emotive so they are easily susceptible to falsehoods.

The benefits are to the charlatans and fraudsters pretending to have the treatments and cures for autism etc etc etc etc in buying their books, DVDs, natural therapies et al.
 Quoting: Cahill


Well if you fall for that bullshit after falling for the big-pharma bullshit you may have coming just what you deserve.

Informing people of the dangers that mercury-infused vaccines pose doesn't necessarily mean that one has an agenda. To the best of my knowledge the OP is not pushing some medication or book of his own production.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16151153


See? There you go with the assumption that I'm "for" big pharma.
Not in the least.
I'll say it until I'm blue in the face, I'm for an properly informed choice.
It's difficult enough deciding what's best, especially for your kids, without disinformation clogging up everywhere you look. It's always emotive stuff too.

And to the best of my knowledge the op has links to an alternative medicine website...
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 2045712
United Kingdom
09/07/2012 08:17 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: If Vaccines don't cause Autism why is it a side effect listed on the package insert with the FDA!
...

I fully agree about the dangers of mercury poisoning. It's truly nasty stuff, particularly mercury vapour which is one of the reasons you can't get a mercury filled thermometer these days.
Methyl mercury poisoned fish is certainly a no-no for expectant mothers and the such like. I doubt if I'd eat them either.

However, your second paragraph starts off with a very familiar patronising stance. "The chemistry is over their heads" and certainly in my eyes that's where your argument starts to disintegrate.
If mercury combines chemically with enzymes please explain then how it "sticks" inside the body.
If it's not floating around in the body are these enzymes it has combined with stuck somewhere too? Does the mercury seek out these enzymes or vice versa?


I'm guessing your chemistry (it's biochemistry by the way) has been gleaned from the world renowned Dr Mercola or his ilk which would speak volumes. I'm also guessing that you would promote mercury chelation techniques for autistic children too?

Just a point of interest where did you copy and paste your post from as it plain that it's a regurgitant.

And for your information my knowledge comes from my experience in working in medicine for over a quarter of a century.
That's REAL medicine by the way, not Internet "medicine".
 Quoting: Cahill


Woah Chief, you need to back up a few posts before we continue further.

The AC above never said that mercury chemically bound itself to enzymes... anyone with a basic knowledge of chemistry could tell you this can't happen. He said that mercury interferes with enzyme systems, which is definitely plausible. Hypothetically speaking, if mercury were to destroy or disable, for example a bacteria-eating enzyme, it would have catastrophic effects on the body.

Plenty of shit gets stuck in our bodies in substance called FAT. When you burn the fat that has shit stored in it, you release said shit into your bloodstream, where it has its negative effects.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16151153

Did I read this part incorrectly then?

One reason mercury is so dangerous is that it binds with body tissues and interferes with enzyme systems by binding chemically. That means it "sticks" inside the body. So it won't be floating around in the blood.
 Quoting: Cahill


Perhaps you did.

My understanding of what he wrote is that it mercury is stored in fat (stuck in the body).

I do see how you could perceive it as you are now, and with that being said there is no reason that mercury couldn't chemically bind to enzymes/elements in the body that are open to some form of hydrogen bond with mercury.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16151153


No, you READ it the same as I did.
Exactly the same as anyone else who read it would.
AlcoholicRunner
I abduct humans and drink at the same time.

User ID: 23182389
United States
09/07/2012 08:19 PM

Report Abusive Post
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Re: If Vaccines don't cause Autism why is it a side effect listed on the package insert with the FDA!
I saw studies on how low autistic kids' vitamin D level was compared to normal kids'./

I think Vitamin D deficiency may be the root cause.

In other words, don't give vaccines to kids with very low vitamin D level.

[link to www.psychologytoday.com]

Trust me, I was paranoid over this with my kid. I read everything I could. I postponed vaccine shots for my kid by 2 years while I tried to find a link. I thought I found a link which was vitamin D deficiency. It was easy test to do... 1000 IU of vitamin D3 supplement for every 25lbs of bodyweight during "school year" for my kid. For 3 years, barely got sick compared to the years before that. I was shocked. I tried it as well and I was shocked to see that I didn't get sick like I usually do during the winter.

Pretty amazing.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 6886051
United States
09/07/2012 08:21 PM
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Re: If Vaccines don't cause Autism why is it a side effect listed on the package insert with the FDA!
...


Oh, BTW, I don't ever remember a mom reporting an extra arm growing after vaccines were administered.
 Quoting: Catseye


Has everyone you know got autism? Or even a majority.
They've all had vaccines and mercury fillings so by your logic they should have.
I mean, that's the double whammy isn't it?

I'm hoping your last sentence was an attempt at sarcasm.
 Quoting: Cahill



The point was that mercury is so pervasive in our country that everyone would have an opportunity to sue if some study showed it caused all these horrific things - because we weren't adequately warned when we were given the vaccines or the fillings in our teeth. No, everyone I know does not have autism. The reason everyone doesn't get poisoned from mercury is because the elemental mercury in fillings and vaccines is normally detoxified by the body. But in some people, the elemental form of mercury is converted into the much more dangerous methyl mercury form and it is this that is causing some people to have problems. Some people may also have a problem excreting mercury properly and promptly. Not everyone gets sick because not everyone has a problem with yeast and bacteria, like a case of dysbiosis, or with their own body's detoxification ability by their liver and kidneys. These are the risk factors that will determine if someone is going to get sick or not, baby or adult.

Most people don't understand mercury challenge tests because the chemistry is over their heads. That includes most doctors because they aren't familiar with the test. They think if they test the blood or urine for mercury, that some will be there if there's a problem. One reason mercury is so dangerous is that it binds with body tissues and interferes with enzyme systems by binding chemically. That means it "sticks" inside the body. So it won't be floating around in the blood. A challenge test uses a chelator that binds strongly to mercury to grab it away from body tissues so it ends up in the blood to be removed. Then you measure the mercury as it comes out in the urine. The Quackwatch idiot describes this as "articially raising" the levels of mercury in these tests to rip people off. That's how ignorant he is about basic chemistry. Any scientist who knows anything about mercury can tell you it binds and gets stuck inside the body because of its chemical nature.

from

[link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

"Reinforcing the hypothesis that the majority of injuries caused by methylmercury (MeHg) in the central nervous system are related to its ability to increase reactive oxygen species, Zhang et al. (2009) [20] reported that after pretreatment of bovine cells with pyrroloquinoline quinone (PQQ), an antioxidant, the cytotoxicity induced by MeHg is significantly attenuated. PQQ reduces the percentage of apoptotic cells, decreased significantly ROS production, suppressed lipid peroxidation, and increased antioxidant enzyme activity in cells exposed to MeHg. Furthermore, the protective effects elicited by an antioxidant (ebselen) strengthen the idea that seleno-organic compounds represent promising approaches to neutralize MeHg-induced neurotoxicity [19].

Studies also demonstrate that mercury has the ability to reduce the number of neuron and cytoarchitecture in individuals with prenatal exposure to mercury [76, 77]. In animal models, some of these symptoms are reproduced. Low-dose prenatal exposure to methylmercury during 10 gestational days impairs motor and mnemonic function in adult mice [23]. This hypothesis is supported by studies that describe methylmercury inhibition of cell division and migration both “in vivo” and “in vitro” [76–78].

In addition, because of its high affinity for sulfhydryl groups in tubulin, methylmercury inhibits the organization of microtubules that are important in CNS development [79–81]. The binding to SH groups also interferes with the intracellular signaling of multiple receptors (e.g., muscarinic, nicotinic, and dopaminergic) and promotes the blockade of Ca++ channels in neurons [82, 83]. In addition, inorganic mercury has the ability to increase the permeability of chloride channels of GABA A receptors in the dorsal root ganglion, which is associated with neuronal hyperpolarization [84].

Corroborating these findings, the study conducted by Maia et al., (2010) [21] demonstrates that the poisoning by methylmercury changes the nitrergic activities of adult mice, and the predominance of alterations may be related to different locations. Besides increasing the nitrergic activity methylmercury and mercuric chloride also have the ability to increase the release of neurotransmitters such as acetylcholine, dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin. Similar findings have also been reported to be a mechanism implicated in the effects of methylmercury and HgCl2 on the central nervous system function [85–89].

Halbach et al. [90] studied a correlation in Iraqi children between the level of maternal exposure to methylmercury during pregnancy and psychomotor retardation. Sandborgh-Englund et al. [91] corroborated this finding in children from the Faroe Islands; they found that children exposed to mercury in the prenatal period had defects in attention, memory, language, and motor function. In addition, exposure to methylmercury in pregnant women or early childhood leads to changes in the CNS development of the fetus or child, respectively [50, 92, 93]. Thereupon, changes caused by mercury poisoning result in significant clinical deficit in motor skills, coordination, and general activity rate of cognitive and psychological disorders [23]."


More relevant info on mercury:

[link to www.chemistryexplained.com]

[link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]


[link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

[link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]


[link to www.toxicteeth.org]

[link to video.google.com]


Sarcasm? You're the one that mentioned growing an extra arm. I'm hoping YOU were being sarcastic. Where do you get your info from? Is it all from Quackwatch and the FDA?
 Quoting: Catseye

I fully agree about the dangers of mercury poisoning. It's truly nasty stuff, particularly mercury vapour which is one of the reasons you can't get a mercury filled thermometer these days.
Methyl mercury poisoned fish is certainly a no-no for expectant mothers and the such like. I doubt if I'd eat them either.

However, your second paragraph starts off with a very familiar patronising stance. "The chemistry is over their heads" and certainly in my eyes that's where your argument starts to disintegrate.
If mercury combines chemically with enzymes please explain then how it "sticks" inside the body.
If it's not floating around in the body are these enzymes it has combined with stuck somewhere too? Does the mercury seek out these enzymes or vice versa?

I'm guessing your chemistry (it's biochemistry by the way) has been gleaned from the world renowned Dr Mercola or his ilk which would speak volumes. I'm also guessing that you would promote mercury chelation techniques for autistic children too?

Just a point of interest where did you copy and paste your post from as it plain that it's a regurgitant.

And for your information my knowledge comes from my experience in working in medicine for over a quarter of a century.
That's REAL medicine by the way, not Internet "medicine".
 Quoting: Cahill





Other than the cut and paste from pubmed which I clearly labeled, I wrote the rest. No, I didn't get it from Mercola's website. Why would you assume that? I actually prefer scientific sites who are unbiased where I can check things for myself. I guess you think I already knew you were working in medicine and that comment about it being "over their heads" was an insult. No, I didn't know you had anything to do with medicine and I said that based on the discussions I have had with doctors about it over the years. Doctors have a nasty habit of not being able to admit when they don't know something. They'd rather make the patient think he is the one that is ignorant. And why would the expression "over their heads" have anything to do with the facts in my argument?

Your "real medicine", BTW, is drugs, tests and surgery - it can't even be called real health care. Medical doctors are pros at saving lives in crisis situations. They are the best at that and I don't fault them at all for those skills. But they are ignorant when it comes to chronic diseases. They ignore the root causes of chronic diseases by trying to treat only the symptoms. That is why alternative medicine came about. Because it addresses the root causes of chronic diseases. Root causes are things like dysbiosis, food intolerance and chronic heavy metal poisoning, sometimes genetics. It's not their fault that they're ignorant, they simply aren't taught those things in medical school. They have their way of doing things that are the most profitable, not the most safe and effective. Your being involved in the medical profession does explain your stance and your unwillingness to do any research that goes against it. I wish you could look outside the box just a bit.

Regurgitant? That's an odd choice of words. And biochemistry instead of chemistry? Then maybe that's why you can't look it up yourself. I can't believe I have to explain this to you. I know enough about mercury that I don't have to go cutting and pasting other people's words about it. The medical profession doesn't have any monopoly on knowledge even though they act like they do. Not now. With the internet, you can look up anything. Determining what is correct and important is what is difficult.

As for mercury getting stuck in the body, it has a high affinity for sulfhydrl groups and gets stuck in cells. It doesn't "seek out" enzymes that it disrupts, it just comes in contact with them randomly. That's why no two people have the same symptoms. If it did seek out a particular enzyme system or a particular group of cells, the symptoms people have would be more similar and it would be much easier to diagnose.

binding of mercury to red blood cells:

[link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

binds to sulfur in the brain:

[link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

was bound mainly to mitochondrial proteins:

[link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

neurochemical receptor-binding characteristics:

[link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]


from:

THE RELATIONSHIP OF THE TOXIC EFFECTS OF MERCURY TO
EXACERABATION OF THE MEDICAL CONDITION CLASSIFIED AS
ALZHEIMER’S DISEASE
BY
Boyd E. Haley, Professor and Chair, Department of Chemistry, University of Kentucky,
Lexington, KY 40506-0055 e-mail, behaley@uky.edu


"FORWARD: Thimerosal or merthiolate is a derivative of thiolsalicylate where ethylmercury
is attached though the sulfur. It is defined as a preservative or anti-microbial in
medical use. This anti-microbial action is dependent on thimerosal breaking down
releasing ethyl-mercury that can penetrate cell membranes and bind to intracellular
enzymes, inhibiting them, and causing cell death. Further, in certain biological
environments the ethyl-mercury can further break down releasing mercury cation (Hg2+).
Hg2+ is also very reactive with enzymes and proteins inhibiting their biological functions
and causing cell injury or death. Both ethyl-mercury and Hg2+ are very neuro-toxic
compounds.
However, ethyl-mercury is more rapidly partitioned into the hydrophobic (fatty) tissues
of the central nervous system and is a more potent neuro-toxin than Hg2+ based on this
“partitioning factor”. It is this partitioning factor that makes organic-mercurials such as
dimethyl-mercury so neuro-toxically lethal (this is the compound that caused the death of
a Dartmouth University chemistry professor after she was exposed to a drop or two on
her gloved hand). The concern with organic-mercurials, such as thimerosal, is that such
compounds can be perceived as “pro-toxicants” just as certain pharmaceuticals can be
classified as “pro-drugs”. This means that the original compound, e.g. thimerosal, is less
reactive giving the compound time to partition into certain areas of the body before it
breaks down releasing the ethyl-mercury and then further releasing Hg2+. However,
while attaching ethyl-mercury to thiolsalicylate makes the ethyl-mercury less reactive it
most likely allows increased partitioning into the central nervous system before the ethylmercury
is released and thereby, increases the neuro-toxicity per unit ethyl-mercury
involved."


"It is critical to understand that both tubulin and CK in normal brain are found
primarily in the soluble fraction of a homogenate. Yet, both proteins appear of normal
size and unmodified on reducing polyacrylamide gel electrophoretic analysis (PAGE).
This indicates that both intact tubulin and CK have formed crosslinks with other proteins
that are insoluble under physiological conditions. Yet, these crosslinks are readily
disrupted by the common dithiolthreitol (DTT) reduction procedure used before PAGE.
What tubulin and CK have in common is that both have a very reactive sulfhydryl in their
nucleotide binding sites that, if modified, inhibits their biological activity (14, 15).
Mercury has a very high affinity for sulfhydryls and has been proven to be a
potent inhibitor of the biological activity of both of these proteins. Also, mercury is
divalent and can form crosslinks between soluble proteins like tubulin and CK and is
known to cause protein aggregation. A generalized single step reaction would be as given
in reaction 1."

"Mercury typifies a “retention” toxicity and much of the mercury taken into the
body is absorbed by the solid tissues. The amount in urine represents mercury being
excreted. However, the main question is how much is being retained in the different body
tissues."

"It is important to
remember the “Periodic Chart of the Elements” which places Zn, Cd and Hg in the same
IIB category and all have high affinity for thiol groups. In other words, mercury is much
more toxic in the presence of other metals that compete with mercury for the binding sites
on protective biomolecules (e.g., APO-E2 & E3, glutathione or GSH, metallo-thionine,
etc.).
It is also important to note that the “test tube levels” of mercury are not
representative of what would happen in a dynamic system where a constant level of
mercury is being supplied by the amalgams. Since mercury toxicity is a “retention
toxicity” all mercury pulled from the system, or retained by the tissue, is replaced by more
mercury being constantly released from the amalgams and the HgZf level and toxicity in
solution remains constant."



And from another pubmed article,Traces of mercury in organs from primates with amalgam fillings.
:

[link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

Role of mercury toxicity in hypertension, cardiovascular disease, and stroke

[link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 16151153
United States
09/07/2012 08:24 PM
Report Abusive Post
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Re: If Vaccines don't cause Autism why is it a side effect listed on the package insert with the FDA!
...


So Sunshine, let me get this straight: Everyone, except for you, has an agenda?

Ever consider that it is YOU who has the agenda?


Ask yourself this question: Who/What benefits are received by spreading information indicating that vaccines are linked to autism?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16151153


No Moondust, EVERYONE doesn't have an agenda. I was specifically mentioning the op.

I certainly do have an agenda. It is to counter the bullshit spread on sites like this about various aspects of medicine which are generally very emotive so they are easily susceptible to falsehoods.

The benefits are to the charlatans and fraudsters pretending to have the treatments and cures for autism etc etc etc etc in buying their books, DVDs, natural therapies et al.
 Quoting: Cahill


Well if you fall for that bullshit after falling for the big-pharma bullshit you may have coming just what you deserve.

Informing people of the dangers that mercury-infused vaccines pose doesn't necessarily mean that one has an agenda. To the best of my knowledge the OP is not pushing some medication or book of his own production.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16151153


See? There you go with the assumption that I'm "for" big pharma.
Not in the least.
I'll say it until I'm blue in the face, I'm for an properly informed choice.
It's difficult enough deciding what's best, especially for your kids, without disinformation clogging up everywhere you look. It's always emotive stuff too.

And to the best of my knowledge the op has links to an alternative medicine website...
 Quoting: Cahill


Please, spare me the bullshit.

I never said nor assumed that you are for big-pharma.

What I did say, however, was that if people figure out that big-pharma is loyal to the dollar, and not the customer, AND then they fall for some "alternative medicine" bullshit (who is also loyal to the dollar), that they deserve the negative effects they have coming their way.


...


Woah Chief, you need to back up a few posts before we continue further.

The AC above never said that mercury chemically bound itself to enzymes... anyone with a basic knowledge of chemistry could tell you this can't happen. He said that mercury interferes with enzyme systems, which is definitely plausible. Hypothetically speaking, if mercury were to destroy or disable, for example a bacteria-eating enzyme, it would have catastrophic effects on the body.

Plenty of shit gets stuck in our bodies in substance called FAT. When you burn the fat that has shit stored in it, you release said shit into your bloodstream, where it has its negative effects.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16151153

Did I read this part incorrectly then?

One reason mercury is so dangerous is that it binds with body tissues and interferes with enzyme systems by binding chemically. That means it "sticks" inside the body. So it won't be floating around in the blood.
 Quoting: Cahill


Perhaps you did.

My understanding of what he wrote is that it mercury is stored in fat (stuck in the body).

I do see how you could perceive it as you are now, and with that being said there is no reason that mercury couldn't chemically bind to enzymes/elements in the body that are open to some form of hydrogen bond with mercury.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16151153


No, you READ it the same as I did.
Exactly the same as anyone else who read it would.
 Quoting: Cahill


Really?

You can dictate how I read and percieve something?

This is news to me...
Catseye

User ID: 6886051
United States
09/07/2012 08:32 PM
Report Abusive Post
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Re: If Vaccines don't cause Autism why is it a side effect listed on the package insert with the FDA!
...


Has everyone you know got autism? Or even a majority.
They've all had vaccines and mercury fillings so by your logic they should have.
I mean, that's the double whammy isn't it?

I'm hoping your last sentence was an attempt at sarcasm.
 Quoting: Cahill



The point was that mercury is so pervasive in our country that everyone would have an opportunity to sue if some study showed it caused all these horrific things - because we weren't adequately warned when we were given the vaccines or the fillings in our teeth. No, everyone I know does not have autism. The reason everyone doesn't get poisoned from mercury is because the elemental mercury in fillings and vaccines is normally detoxified by the body. But in some people, the elemental form of mercury is converted into the much more dangerous methyl mercury form and it is this that is causing some people to have problems. Some people may also have a problem excreting mercury properly and promptly. Not everyone gets sick because not everyone has a problem with yeast and bacteria, like a case of dysbiosis, or with their own body's detoxification ability by their liver and kidneys. These are the risk factors that will determine if someone is going to get sick or not, baby or adult.

Most people don't understand mercury challenge tests because the chemistry is over their heads. That includes most doctors because they aren't familiar with the test. They think if they test the blood or urine for mercury, that some will be there if there's a problem. One reason mercury is so dangerous is that it binds with body tissues and interferes with enzyme systems by binding chemically. That means it "sticks" inside the body. So it won't be floating around in the blood. A challenge test uses a chelator that binds strongly to mercury to grab it away from body tissues so it ends up in the blood to be removed. Then you measure the mercury as it comes out in the urine. The Quackwatch idiot describes this as "articially raising" the levels of mercury in these tests to rip people off. That's how ignorant he is about basic chemistry. Any scientist who knows anything about mercury can tell you it binds and gets stuck inside the body because of its chemical nature.

from

[link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

"Reinforcing the hypothesis that the majority of injuries caused by methylmercury (MeHg) in the central nervous system are related to its ability to increase reactive oxygen species, Zhang et al. (2009) [20] reported that after pretreatment of bovine cells with pyrroloquinoline quinone (PQQ), an antioxidant, the cytotoxicity induced by MeHg is significantly attenuated. PQQ reduces the percentage of apoptotic cells, decreased significantly ROS production, suppressed lipid peroxidation, and increased antioxidant enzyme activity in cells exposed to MeHg. Furthermore, the protective effects elicited by an antioxidant (ebselen) strengthen the idea that seleno-organic compounds represent promising approaches to neutralize MeHg-induced neurotoxicity [19].

Studies also demonstrate that mercury has the ability to reduce the number of neuron and cytoarchitecture in individuals with prenatal exposure to mercury [76, 77]. In animal models, some of these symptoms are reproduced. Low-dose prenatal exposure to methylmercury during 10 gestational days impairs motor and mnemonic function in adult mice [23]. This hypothesis is supported by studies that describe methylmercury inhibition of cell division and migration both “in vivo” and “in vitro” [76–78].

In addition, because of its high affinity for sulfhydryl groups in tubulin, methylmercury inhibits the organization of microtubules that are important in CNS development [79–81]. The binding to SH groups also interferes with the intracellular signaling of multiple receptors (e.g., muscarinic, nicotinic, and dopaminergic) and promotes the blockade of Ca++ channels in neurons [82, 83]. In addition, inorganic mercury has the ability to increase the permeability of chloride channels of GABA A receptors in the dorsal root ganglion, which is associated with neuronal hyperpolarization [84].

Corroborating these findings, the study conducted by Maia et al., (2010) [21] demonstrates that the poisoning by methylmercury changes the nitrergic activities of adult mice, and the predominance of alterations may be related to different locations. Besides increasing the nitrergic activity methylmercury and mercuric chloride also have the ability to increase the release of neurotransmitters such as acetylcholine, dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin. Similar findings have also been reported to be a mechanism implicated in the effects of methylmercury and HgCl2 on the central nervous system function [85–89].

Halbach et al. [90] studied a correlation in Iraqi children between the level of maternal exposure to methylmercury during pregnancy and psychomotor retardation. Sandborgh-Englund et al. [91] corroborated this finding in children from the Faroe Islands; they found that children exposed to mercury in the prenatal period had defects in attention, memory, language, and motor function. In addition, exposure to methylmercury in pregnant women or early childhood leads to changes in the CNS development of the fetus or child, respectively [50, 92, 93]. Thereupon, changes caused by mercury poisoning result in significant clinical deficit in motor skills, coordination, and general activity rate of cognitive and psychological disorders [23]."


More relevant info on mercury:

[link to www.chemistryexplained.com]

[link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]


[link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

[link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]


[link to www.toxicteeth.org]

[link to video.google.com]


Sarcasm? You're the one that mentioned growing an extra arm. I'm hoping YOU were being sarcastic. Where do you get your info from? Is it all from Quackwatch and the FDA?
 Quoting: Catseye

I fully agree about the dangers of mercury poisoning. It's truly nasty stuff, particularly mercury vapour which is one of the reasons you can't get a mercury filled thermometer these days.
Methyl mercury poisoned fish is certainly a no-no for expectant mothers and the such like. I doubt if I'd eat them either.

However, your second paragraph starts off with a very familiar patronising stance. "The chemistry is over their heads" and certainly in my eyes that's where your argument starts to disintegrate.
If mercury combines chemically with enzymes please explain then how it "sticks" inside the body.
If it's not floating around in the body are these enzymes it has combined with stuck somewhere too? Does the mercury seek out these enzymes or vice versa?

I'm guessing your chemistry (it's biochemistry by the way) has been gleaned from the world renowned Dr Mercola or his ilk which would speak volumes. I'm also guessing that you would promote mercury chelation techniques for autistic children too?

Just a point of interest where did you copy and paste your post from as it plain that it's a regurgitant.

And for your information my knowledge comes from my experience in working in medicine for over a quarter of a century.
That's REAL medicine by the way, not Internet "medicine".
 Quoting: Cahill





Other than the cut and paste from pubmed which I clearly labeled, I wrote the rest. No, I didn't get it from Mercola's website. Why would you assume that? I actually prefer scientific sites who are unbiased where I can check things for myself. I guess you think I already knew you were working in medicine and that comment about it being "over their heads" was an insult. No, I didn't know you had anything to do with medicine and I said that based on the discussions I have had with doctors about it over the years. Doctors have a nasty habit of not being able to admit when they don't know something. They'd rather make the patient think he is the one that is ignorant. And why would the expression "over their heads" have anything to do with the facts in my argument?

Your "real medicine", BTW, is drugs, tests and surgery - it can't even be called real health care. Medical doctors are pros at saving lives in crisis situations. They are the best at that and I don't fault them at all for those skills. But they are ignorant when it comes to chronic diseases. They ignore the root causes of chronic diseases by trying to treat only the symptoms. That is why alternative medicine came about. Because it addresses the root causes of chronic diseases. Root causes are things like dysbiosis, food intolerance and chronic heavy metal poisoning, sometimes genetics. It's not their fault that they're ignorant, they simply aren't taught those things in medical school. They have their way of doing things that are the most profitable, not the most safe and effective. Your being involved in the medical profession does explain your stance and your unwillingness to do any research that goes against it. I wish you could look outside the box just a bit.

Regurgitant? That's an odd choice of words. And biochemistry instead of chemistry? Then maybe that's why you can't look it up yourself. I can't believe I have to explain this to you. I know enough about mercury that I don't have to go cutting and pasting other people's words about it. The medical profession doesn't have any monopoly on knowledge even though they act like they do. Not now. With the internet, you can look up anything. Determining what is correct and important is what is difficult.

As for mercury getting stuck in the body, it has a high affinity for sulfhydrl groups and gets stuck in cells. It doesn't "seek out" enzymes that it disrupts, it just comes in contact with them randomly. That's why no two people have the same symptoms. If it did seek out a particular enzyme system or a particular group of cells, the symptoms people have would be more similar and it would be much easier to diagnose.

binding of mercury to red blood cells:

[link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

binds to sulfur in the brain:

[link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

was bound mainly to mitochondrial proteins:

[link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

neurochemical receptor-binding characteristics:

[link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]


from:

THE RELATIONSHIP OF THE TOXIC EFFECTS OF MERCURY TO
EXACERABATION OF THE MEDICAL CONDITION CLASSIFIED AS
ALZHEIMER’S DISEASE
BY
Boyd E. Haley, Professor and Chair, Department of Chemistry, University of Kentucky,
Lexington, KY 40506-0055 e-mail, behaley@uky.edu


"FORWARD: Thimerosal or merthiolate is a derivative of thiolsalicylate where ethylmercury
is attached though the sulfur. It is defined as a preservative or anti-microbial in
medical use. This anti-microbial action is dependent on thimerosal breaking down
releasing ethyl-mercury that can penetrate cell membranes and bind to intracellular
enzymes, inhibiting them, and causing cell death. Further, in certain biological
environments the ethyl-mercury can further break down releasing mercury cation (Hg2+).
Hg2+ is also very reactive with enzymes and proteins inhibiting their biological functions
and causing cell injury or death. Both ethyl-mercury and Hg2+ are very neuro-toxic
compounds.
However, ethyl-mercury is more rapidly partitioned into the hydrophobic (fatty) tissues
of the central nervous system and is a more potent neuro-toxin than Hg2+ based on this
“partitioning factor”. It is this partitioning factor that makes organic-mercurials such as
dimethyl-mercury so neuro-toxically lethal (this is the compound that caused the death of
a Dartmouth University chemistry professor after she was exposed to a drop or two on
her gloved hand). The concern with organic-mercurials, such as thimerosal, is that such
compounds can be perceived as “pro-toxicants” just as certain pharmaceuticals can be
classified as “pro-drugs”. This means that the original compound, e.g. thimerosal, is less
reactive giving the compound time to partition into certain areas of the body before it
breaks down releasing the ethyl-mercury and then further releasing Hg2+. However,
while attaching ethyl-mercury to thiolsalicylate makes the ethyl-mercury less reactive it
most likely allows increased partitioning into the central nervous system before the ethylmercury
is released and thereby, increases the neuro-toxicity per unit ethyl-mercury
involved."


"It is critical to understand that both tubulin and CK in normal brain are found
primarily in the soluble fraction of a homogenate. Yet, both proteins appear of normal
size and unmodified on reducing polyacrylamide gel electrophoretic analysis (PAGE).
This indicates that both intact tubulin and CK have formed crosslinks with other proteins
that are insoluble under physiological conditions. Yet, these crosslinks are readily
disrupted by the common dithiolthreitol (DTT) reduction procedure used before PAGE.
What tubulin and CK have in common is that both have a very reactive sulfhydryl in their
nucleotide binding sites that, if modified, inhibits their biological activity (14, 15).
Mercury has a very high affinity for sulfhydryls and has been proven to be a
potent inhibitor of the biological activity of both of these proteins. Also, mercury is
divalent and can form crosslinks between soluble proteins like tubulin and CK and is
known to cause protein aggregation. A generalized single step reaction would be as given
in reaction 1."

"Mercury typifies a “retention” toxicity and much of the mercury taken into the
body is absorbed by the solid tissues. The amount in urine represents mercury being
excreted. However, the main question is how much is being retained in the different body
tissues."

"It is important to
remember the “Periodic Chart of the Elements” which places Zn, Cd and Hg in the same
IIB category and all have high affinity for thiol groups. In other words, mercury is much
more toxic in the presence of other metals that compete with mercury for the binding sites
on protective biomolecules (e.g., APO-E2 & E3, glutathione or GSH, metallo-thionine,
etc.).
It is also important to note that the “test tube levels” of mercury are not
representative of what would happen in a dynamic system where a constant level of
mercury is being supplied by the amalgams. Since mercury toxicity is a “retention
toxicity” all mercury pulled from the system, or retained by the tissue, is replaced by more
mercury being constantly released from the amalgams and the HgZf level and toxicity in
solution remains constant."



And from another pubmed article,Traces of mercury in organs from primates with amalgam fillings.
:

[link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

Role of mercury toxicity in hypertension, cardiovascular disease, and stroke

[link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6886051



This is my post, I didn't realize I was logged out, want to keep it in active threads.
Forgive your enemies, it messes with their heads.

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