why does christian dogmatic belief interject itself into so many threads?

I don't think so, I don't think it is a directive or a command.

I think that Christians have a set of doctrine, that is essential. You must believe such and such doctrine to be a part of a church, or a member.

But dogma is when there is no authority except the fact that someone 'in authority' says it.

That is what 'authoritative' means.

Most people don't accept 'authoritative' directives and only will accept that which they agree to because they were persuaded to it.

We're all (especially you - maybe less me) pretty polite."

Thank you very much. It is my intent to be respectful, but surely one day someone will push my button.




I do get exasperated from time to time, don't I?

I say, "I BELIEVE in God."
You say, "That's your OPINION."
I say, "You *MUST* BELIEVE in God."
You say, "That's DOGMATIC".

Isn't that the issue? You must, you have to, you need to, you are required to...

this is getting to the heart of why i started this threaqd...and GLP is not the only place obviously this happens...i encounter it too often in life

but additionally, it is the IF YOU DO NOT thing that drives me crazy...IF YOU DO NOT ACCEPT THE LORD JC AS YOUR SAVIOR...whoa

not like if you do not change your oil your gonna blow your engine type of advice, but rather the Holier than thou thing that makes me think of fascism

no one read this out of context, (john lennon being misunderstood to comparing the beatles with JC...ludacris...man i am spelling like a hip hopper)

anyhow,...it is just a ::connection:: i just made in the stream of dialogue

Maybe it's like driving down the road.

If people are nice and let me in, I am happy. If people cut me off, I am unhappy.

If people drive reckless, I curse at them.

If people drive courteously , I bless them.

If God wants it to be so...it pisses me off.

If Goddess wants it to be so...I am willing and open.

It is absolutely amazing how the exterior drives and controls the robotic self.

Don't say that! you'll MAKE me mad! I have no tolerance for such!..hahahahah

Don't push my button!

hahahahah

>>would you like to know why I chose this moniker<<

Sure. Your the OP. Run this thread how you want to. Then you can guess why I picked Sheep (might involve bible verse though)

Go ahead. I'm interested.

Where's that darn button!

I don't think so, I don't think it is a directive or a command.

I think that Christians have a set of doctrine, that is essential. You must believe such and such doctrine to be a part of a church, or a member.

But dogma is when there is no authority except the fact that someone 'in authority' says it.

That is what 'authoritative' means.

Most people don't accept 'authoritative' directives and only will accept that which they agree to because they were persuaded to it.







look things are maleable with the church.

look at homosexual priests soon when the church cannot find enough priests, they'll accept women, this will fly int he face of existing doctrine

eating meat on fridays

sermons in latin

pedophile as priests

sheltering nazi investemnts and not speaking out against the holocaust

these are shapeshifters

yes there are core beliefs...but they change...many many theologians are believing san graal was a mistake

should have been sang raal...you follow me here?

Kal's gotta button, too.
Kal's gotta button, too.

more than a couple of reasons for En Regalia, however it was a truly spontaneous thing when i first was honored with an invite to GZ and had to create a quick monicker

after meeting the reconassaince red beret detail of TEAM USA in japan, I came up with a new hotmail account (i have way too many e-mail accounts out there, with the belief that i give out specific e-mails for specific "clientele") music has always been a segment of my life that i try to keep away from work accounts and i often go for other pseudonyms as well for any number of reasons...it is interesting to see what spam used to come to different accounts...so i choose mellifluous_life for my TEAM USA mailings...I like to lead a luscious, honey sugar mellifluous life as often as possible, though sometimes it is a challenge...it was the first time I honored a band with such a thing as more than a bumper sticker, and those had to be cryptic and crafted by fellow fans (no mass produced steal your faces or PHISH stuffs for this kid)...i figure i honor them enough by following them all over the place, you know?

but i had never heard the word mellifluous before Fluff's travels so I can honor that kind of gift easily

know "honor" is one of the things I also expect from a band. If they are going to cover someone else tune, they should give props...in my mind primarily so that the younger fans can go to the source. ESPESCIALLY if they bastardize the song. AS much as I appreciate the Chili Peppers, it really salted me off when the took the Meters tune "africa" and changed it to "hollywood" without giving due props. now WSP (who in the short annals of jambands have covered the most remarkable spectrum of other bands IMHO) and phish and UM etc...they have repekt that I feel even if they dont come to the mike and say "that was a bill withers tune or tom waits or night ranger" whatever...

so i was thinking of paying props to another fav musician (zappa of course) while still remaining alleged to the reason the GZ family has come to exist...(ergo all the references to PT, which i visitated for a while, but never got into postings...)

SECONDLY, I have thought about Peaches as a fruit for a while since a show at giants stadium prolly in the late 80's when we had chosen one of our goof questions to ask fellow deadheads to keep ourselves fresh and amused...


I have always looked for ways to "goof on" people...and love it when souls do the same to me.

one of my favorites back inthe day was I'd get a case of wine off the plane (mom worked for Delta and I got to fly first class on dead tour, which was interesting...changing out of a suit, carrying a suit, etc on tour) that we'd drink or sometimes sell a few bottles...we got into this habit of selling or giving one of those split sized bottles of wine in the lot, screwing off the the cap and encouraging the custy to "smell the cap" to ensure the wine was good. The image of festering hippies (a term of endearment i promise..yeah right) smelling the metal cap and prtending to be a wine conniseur never stopped being funny...

anyhow, we had this reporter's looking microphone that we would run into a backpack but was not hooked up to anything (think steve martin talking to robt downey jr in that early scene in Bowfinger) and we would ask random Q's of people in the crowd. This day our running Q was

"if you were to be reincarnated as a fruit or vegetable, what would it be?"

mostly we'd get some type of berry or something randomly funny "a kumquat" or something...99% of the time our random Q's caught people mostly off guard

every once in a while, it was obvious that people had thought about our random Q before, which was always amazing.

so this little girl who was selling her grandmother's noodle pudding, calmy and w/o hesitation says

"a nectarine, all the fun of a peach without the fuzz"

bwhahaha...hilarious but sublime

so i thought a bit on what was so fun about a peach and when i re-discovered the song PER, i was really hooked by this thought/imagery of a bunch of peaches partying and with the ABB album and whatnot (the gafney SC peach always gets me as well...though it seems a bit lonely) but never thought i could be subtle about my fascination


anyhow, that is its origin...should be the topic of a new thread..that is how this came out for all of us on GZ

i need to know also if people are with the

san graal

and sang raal

distinction

look things are maleable with the church.

look at homosexual priests soon when the church cannot find enough priests, they'll accept women, this will fly int he face of existing doctrine

eating meat on fridays

sermons in latin

pedophile as priests

sheltering nazi investemnts and not speaking out against the holocaust


==========================

Well, the bible doesn't talk about not eating meat on Fridays, or about semons in latin, or about nazis, or about celibacy of priests, but it does talk about the rest.

So the former would be dogma, ie opinion that is authoritative - and the rest would be doctrinal.

If there is a clear prohibition about something in the Bible, then it would be doctrinal, not dogma.

But if there is no clear prohibition, then someone would need to give an opinion and this would be dogma or plain old bad judgment.

>>I think that Christians have a set of doctrine, that is essential. You must believe such and such doctrine to be a part of a church, or a member.

But dogma is when there is no authority except the fact that someone 'in authority' says it.<<

I think, en regalia, this for me, is the heart of the matter. I don't belong to any "church'. I belong to the Body of Christ (His believers). My authority doen't come from men. It comes from the direction God gives me through His Spirit.

Preachy, I know, but that's the only way I can describe it.

"IF YOU DO NOT thing that drives me crazy...IF YOU DO NOT ACCEPT THE LORD JC AS YOUR SAVIOR...whoa"


For what it's worth, I don't believe it is only Christians who do this, or indeed, only "religious" people.


Sure people who are religious willl tend to defur to words from their religions doctrine to explain why they think something, or why this or that. But people outside religion, yet spiritual also do this. Instead of deferring to the Bible ( as an example) they may use a different book or books, or their own view of "how it is" and preach that.

Then there's the other group of people, the ones who subtly (sp) press their dogma, some religious do it, and some "spiritual" do this. IT's all a kind of spiritual bullying "my way or the highway", until you 'see' what *I* 'see', you don't see nothing worth seeing. A spiritual/religious superiority, if you like.

I understand that your question is why do some Christians bring their dogma with them to some threads, I'm merely pointing out that I have seen non christians bring a form of dogma to a "christian" thread.

The danger in all this is drawing lines in the sand, on that sign you are (fill in the blank) and on this side you are (fill in the blank).

Nobody said being human was going to be without hardwork, and yet here we all are, human, undeniably (?). And so we enter into discourse, into each other's energy, and we have flaws, and we have beauty and we're all freakin marvellous.

As I said in another thread, for me it is about walking side by side. You can walk with me, and I still have to take each step. I have no desire to crawl over you to get where I'm going, or to be on top of you to get there "first".

By all means, share our views, our opinions, our experiences, the trick is doing so with compassion, not a bludgeon.

kay, i do not know the answer to this, but is abortion or divorce or homosexuality named in the bible?

i honestly do not know...but i think murder is, yet it has become very very relativist in this day and age

so is taking the lords name in vein.

and people say jeez so often i am up to my ears with it 'cause few understand what its root word is

Sheep!

Please!
push my button!

i can't eat very much more popcorn sheesh,, i am learnig alot,,, keep talking

In vein, Main line the word,boot it up,don,t get hooked,Why do you think they call it God.

Preachy? Nah!

We are so reasonable at glp, we reason, we don't preach.

I don't think I've ever seen anyone tell sinners to repent here - ever.

I've seen Lester tell backslid Christians to shape up, but that is about it.

You guys (non-Christians at glp) are lucky!

>>Sheep!

Please!
push my button!<<

Kal: I don't know if I should laugh, or run and hide. I chose laughter and I'm not kiddin'. I laughed.

sophia i totally concur...and my soapbox along these lines is preparation for the next stage of evolution...it takes intelligence of a variety of levels...

and blind faith aint gonna cut it

there is a funny anecdote about not accepting "we've always done it this way" as an adequate answer as to why something is being done in a specific manner

a woman always cuts the ends off her ham before she cooks it. finally after years of seeing her do this, her young daughter asks why?

i dunno, my mother always di it that way...lets ask her..."i do not know, my mom always prepared a ham this way"

luckily great grandma was still around

"why do you cut the ends off?"

because the pan i had was too small

that is what some people are up against...i dunno what to say, but i have to draw a line b/w my unilateral love for all beings and plants and rocks etc for that matter

and patience with ignorant humans

i understand my role as an educator and ill give everyone a chance to dialogue with me, but i am impatient with closed minds...sorry, but we do not have a lot of time IMHO

Kay

was the preachy response in response to me?

if it was I didn't make my point very clear. I wa snot specifically talking about you.

I'm very reluctant to affix labels cos there's fun and unfun people in every bunch, angry and scared and loveable and honest and so on... I haven't meant a single "group" who have a monopoly on one set or the other.

From my perspective, I ask questions, and I have conversations like this because I want to understand the people around me, not because I want to change them, or convert them. And in this context and the context of my previous post by "convert" I am not only referring tot he religious, I am referring to spiritual, I am referring to atheists. When I find myself asking and discussing because I need to be right, because I want people to agree with me or see the world my way, I know it's time to walk away and take a drink, some fresh air and a laugh!

now what is the definition of a christian?

i believe JC walked the earth and his spirit is still with us today, but coming back to judge the living and the dead?

nah, too much paperwork. i think hed rather be dancing and talking with people in the next plane?

why would he want to come back to this mess?

By all means, share our views, our opinions, our experiences, the trick is doing so with compassion, not a bludgeon.
---


I understand what you are saying, Sophia...

It is like todays generation entering the work force today.

They have had very little discipline, very few difficult times in their lives that would have built character. Their parents thought the sensitive and compassionate approach would be more instructive than a paddle across their butt.

They were wrong. Now we have whining, hyper-sensitive, complaining, spineless people crying so loud that laws are legislated to appease their insanity.

Sorry for the non-compassionate response, I have observed the em pathetic and 'sensitive' approach as irrational and destructive.

This country is falling apart due to the attitude of handling everyone with kid gloves. It pampers and fosters irrational emotionalism.

preachy response::sheeep (as i read it)

though it was not preachy but rather very genuine...i liked it alot

And en regalia:

I get the gist of your story, but can't make heads or tails of GZ and was it PT? I'm not quite sure of your connection to music, either, so maybe it is another thread, another time.

Also don't know san graal, was that it?

I can't type fast enough to keep up. Slow down you buncha kooks.

en regalia

I think I understand what you are getting at.

Have you found, through experience, that getting frustrated and impatient has changed their views quickly?

what if, you find the view you have of the world is challenged tomorrow and becomes a different view? It is not only the religious who cut off the end of the ham because it's how it's always been.

like i said sheep, push my button!

Oh no,It's that mean ole Black Jim, came back to pillage Happyland,Hey Kay, "Allaho Akbar". Sheep, you're doing fine your wisdom out shines your faith.

Kay

I see, preachy was for sheep.


kal

I understand what you're saying. I see that in our country too. I also see some fine hardworking kids. I wonder is the epidemic of what you describe in your country amongst the middle and higher socio economic groups or evenly spread?

I temper myself, because I am young enough to recall my parents saying "kids today" and old enough to have caught myself saying it!

ok

san graal

translates as the "the grail"

take the same 8 letters but split them in the middle (an easy mistake possibly made long ago) and you get

sang raal

"royal blood"

so the very real (and i fervently believe) possibility is that there is no such thing as the holy grail, but rather royal blood (the whole da vinci code thing about mary magdelene being JC's lover and the "vessel" being her body as she gave birth to christs child) heretical beliefs for some...but other devout christians believe this

which is doctrine and which is dogma?

funny that monty python chose these issues to lampoon...

anyhow...i educate myself on this stuff...i have a spirtual path, i am a christian in that i believe in the man...but his message has been perverted and i feel for this deeply...in my heart the spirit of the man feels my empathy and forgives me and yet validates me by allowing me to have a greatfilter...hard otherwise to explain