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Time to rethink our Universe......Hubble has now discovered a galaxy that is so old and well formed, it should not exist!

 
Anonymous Coward
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09/10/2012 11:49 PM
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Re: Time to rethink our Universe......Hubble has now discovered a galaxy that is so old and well formed, it should not exist!
[link to refreshingnews99.blogspot.in]
snip
This galaxy is so large, so fully-formed, astronomers say it shouldn't exist at all. It's called a "grand-design" spiral galaxy, and unlike most galaxies of its kind, this one is old. Like, really, really old. According to a new study conducted by researchers using NASA's Hubble Telescope, it dates back roughly 10.7-billion years — and that makes it the most ancient spiral galaxy we've ever discovered.

So every time someone spouts out this or that about things are this way or that.....

well what do we base how the universe works on?

how do we even begin to say how the universe was created?
just recently NASA has admitted there concept of how the surface of the sun functioned was completely wrong.
now they find a galaxy that breaks all the rules....this newly discovered galaxy should not exist.

yet there it is!
 Quoting: psyoptics


I suppose if I told you I had the answer, you would call me a liar...

So =/

This is good news for man kind!!!
 Quoting: Prophet.



well whats the answer..I'm game
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Time to rethink our Universe......Hubble has now discovered a galaxy that is so old and well formed, it should not exist!
[link to refreshingnews99.blogspot.in]
snip
This galaxy is so large, so fully-formed, astronomers say it shouldn't exist at all. It's called a "grand-design" spiral galaxy, and unlike most galaxies of its kind, this one is old. Like, really, really old. According to a new study conducted by researchers using NASA's Hubble Telescope, it dates back roughly 10.7-billion years — and that makes it the most ancient spiral galaxy we've ever discovered.

So every time someone spouts out this or that about things are this way or that.....

well what do we base how the universe works on?

how do we even begin to say how the universe was created?
just recently NASA has admitted there concept of how the surface of the sun functioned was completely wrong.
now they find a galaxy that breaks all the rules....this newly discovered galaxy should not exist.

yet there it is!
 Quoting: psyoptics


I suppose if I told you I had the answer, you would call me a liar...

So =/

This is good news for man kind!!!
 Quoting: Prophet.



well whats the answer..I'm game
Anonymous Coward
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09/10/2012 11:50 PM
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Re: Time to rethink our Universe......Hubble has now discovered a galaxy that is so old and well formed, it should not exist!
Always been torn between the religion I knew growing up.. church on Sunday, young people's gatherings during the week.. and science.. which I've loved since I read my first science fiction.. '
The one would seem to preclude the other.

In my graying years I have come to know both in harmony.
I just leave organized religion out of it .. and I take my science with a side of skepticism..

It's all good..!
 Quoting: Waterbug


Indeed...

hugs
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Time to rethink our Universe......Hubble has now discovered a galaxy that is so old and well formed, it should not exist!
"In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth."


No re-thinking necessary at all.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23563416


This is what happens when you've been brain washed to believe in one particular religious book your entire life. Closed mind. It's so sad.
psyoptics (OP)

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09/10/2012 11:53 PM

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Re: Time to rethink our Universe......Hubble has now discovered a galaxy that is so old and well formed, it should not exist!
"In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth."


No re-thinking necessary at all.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23563416

but what was there before? this is now my question?
a vast space with all the building blocks for matter?

well now i have one more question....is there a place beyond our universe?
sound childish...but think....there must be.
big bang, or big chill.....there has to be more beyond our universe!
a good video editor can make anyone say anything the editor wants.
Anonymous Coward
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09/11/2012 12:08 AM
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Re: Time to rethink our Universe......Hubble has now discovered a galaxy that is so old and well formed, it should not exist!
You know what really pisses me off about this kind of junk? These idiots just think they know everything.

If the light from the galaxy took 11 billion years to get here, then how is the galaxy itself 11 billion years old? The picture is what the galaxy looked like 11 billion years ago. I'm pretty sure it's much, much older than that.
Anonymous Coward
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09/11/2012 12:09 AM
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Re: Time to rethink our Universe......Hubble has now discovered a galaxy that is so old and well formed, it should not exist!
The Big Bang never happen. It's just that simple!
Anonymous Coward
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09/11/2012 12:11 AM
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Re: Time to rethink our Universe......Hubble has now discovered a galaxy that is so old and well formed, it should not exist!
The Big Bang never happen. It's just that simple!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5243024


As far as I am concerned, it's just always been there. Matter/Energy is neither created or destroyed.
Waterbug

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09/11/2012 12:11 AM

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Re: Time to rethink our Universe......Hubble has now discovered a galaxy that is so old and well formed, it should not exist!
"In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth."


No re-thinking necessary at all.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23563416

but what was there before? this is now my question?
a vast space with all the building blocks for matter?

well now i have one more question....is there a place beyond our universe?
sound childish...but think....there must be.
big bang, or big chill.....there has to be more beyond our universe!
 Quoting: psyoptics


I think we are meant to ponder these things.. and never know, for sure. One of the spices of life.
I mean.. how boring would it be if we already knew everything..?

One could even surmise that a 'creator's' possible vicarious need for entertainment required creation..

And here we are.. entertaining.

dance
Isis One

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09/11/2012 12:15 AM

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Re: Time to rethink our Universe......Hubble has now discovered a galaxy that is so old and well formed, it should not exist!
Great thread Psy!!!hf
Spread the word, change the collective conscious......
THERE IS MORE THAN ENOUGH OF EVERYTHING TO GO AROUND

When you are undisciplined, the universe is extremely forgiving and when you are disciplined, the universe is extremely generous. Me
Anonymous Coward
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09/11/2012 12:21 AM
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Re: Time to rethink our Universe......Hubble has now discovered a galaxy that is so old and well formed, it should not exist!
Great post Op, experts can't even explain the Ice age coherently, so thinking that 'experts' understand the Universe is not surprising to me in the least
 Quoting: mathetes


God did it is not a scientific explanation. Science is a process of discovery. Religion is just pure dogma.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21692972


And scientists don't follow dogma? lol
 Quoting: mathetes


Well, as the story goes, if they really went to the moon, they had to use the bible to set the course right. They needed the time and date correct, they didn't have it but someone remembered a part in the bible, about the turning back some degrees so a man had a longer life.

Anyway that is the way the story goes.:)
Anonymous Coward
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09/11/2012 12:25 AM
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Re: Time to rethink our Universe......Hubble has now discovered a galaxy that is so old and well formed, it should not exist!
If we turned out the lights one night everywhere, we could see the stars, the moon a lot closer, the filter would be gone. With all the lights it like looking through the wrong end of a telescope.

I used to see such a big moon and the stars were hanging like lights in the sky, miss seeing them like that.
Anonymous Coward
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09/11/2012 12:35 AM
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Re: Time to rethink our Universe......Hubble has now discovered a galaxy that is so old and well formed, it should not exist!
This conversation reminds me a lot of Carl Sagan's "flat world" video. You see, the flatlanders lived in a 2d world, there was no depth.

The 2d world could not even fathom a 3rd dimension like we live in.

In a way, we are flat landers, we can't comprehend a world with another dimension.

The very fact that we can't comprehend a universe without end, shows us that the very core of the way we think about the EVERYTHING is completely wrong.

We need to figure it out now.
psyoptics (OP)

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09/11/2012 12:43 AM

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Re: Time to rethink our Universe......Hubble has now discovered a galaxy that is so old and well formed, it should not exist!
so i talk a little about Chaos and the father of this theory...
Edward Norton Lorenz
[link to en.wikipedia.org]

someone graciously posted and link to here....i can not find the poster and do wish to credit them but alas i can not.
[link to scienceforums.com]
in this link they talk about Dirac’s Equation and the Sea of Negative Energy yet another idea for the creation of the universe.
and on this site they talked about Lorentz ether theory
[link to en.wikipedia.org]
snip
A theory, which was developed mainly between 1892 and 1906 by Lorentz and Poincaré, was based on the aether theory of Augustin-Jean Fresnel, Maxwell's equations and the electron theory of Rudolf Clausius. Lorentz introduced a strict separation between matter (electrons) and ether, whereby in his model the ether is completely motionless, and it won't be set in motion in the neighborhood of ponderable matter. As Max Born later said, it was natural (though not logically necessary) for scientists of that time to identify the rest frame of the Lorentz ether with the absolute space of Isaac Newton. The condition of this ether can be described by the electric field E and the magnetic field H, where these fields represent the "states" of the ether (with no further specification), related to the charges of the electrons. Thus an abstract electromagnetic ether replaces the older mechanistic ether models. Contrary to Clausius, who accepted that the electrons operate by actions at a distance, the electromagnetic field of the ether appears as a mediator between the electrons, and changes in this field can propagate not faster than the speed of light. Lorentz theoretically explained the Zeeman effect on the basis of his theory, for which he received the Nobel Prize in Physics in 1902. Joseph Larmor found a similar theory simultaneously, but his concept was based on a mechanical ether. A fundamental concept of Lorentz's theory in 1895 was the "theorem of corresponding states" for terms of order v/c. This theorem states that a moving observer with respect to the aether can use the same electrodynamic equations as an observer in the stationary aether system, thus they are making the same observations.

looking at a connection here made by last names....but more.

Math + physics = chaos...or a science a true science.....
true science + true religion = true knowledge.
a good video editor can make anyone say anything the editor wants.
AmericanJedi

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09/11/2012 12:43 AM
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Re: Time to rethink our Universe......Hubble has now discovered a galaxy that is so old and well formed, it should not exist!
Hey British AC,


why so many BS Flags? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12786780


People hate what they don't understand
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4884715



Because it flies in the face of the insane notion that the World was created two weeks after Jesus sneezed in the guacamole dip at a party for Mohammed.
(GLP aka American Jedi)

Listen here you beautiful bitch, I'm about to fuck you up with some truth.
Kenny Powers

If you steal the dreams of others long enough, sooner or later you'll end up in a nightmare.
American Jedi

Intellectuals solve problems, geniuses prevent them.
Albert Einstein

Satis Eloquentiae, Sapientiae Parum....

"The last of the old?"

"No, the first of the new."
Anonymous Coward
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09/11/2012 12:43 AM
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Re: Time to rethink our Universe......Hubble has now discovered a galaxy that is so old and well formed, it should not exist!
This conversation reminds me a lot of Carl Sagan's "flat world" video. You see, the flatlanders lived in a 2d world, there was no depth.

The 2d world could not even fathom a 3rd dimension like we live in.

In a way, we are flat landers, we can't comprehend a world with another dimension.

The very fact that we can't comprehend a universe without end, shows us that the very core of the way we think about the EVERYTHING is completely wrong.

We need to figure it out now.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22573986


Can we figure it out? this galaxy is so far away even in a sci-fi made up universe like star trek, they would never make it that far. The universe is so grand and huge that I can literally not imagine what it would take to reach that far to ACTUALLY see whats going on out there.

no one has any clue what is actually going on.

fun to think about though!
psyoptics (OP)

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09/11/2012 12:49 AM

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Re: Time to rethink our Universe......Hubble has now discovered a galaxy that is so old and well formed, it should not exist!
Great post Op, experts can't even explain the Ice age coherently, so thinking that 'experts' understand the Universe is not surprising to me in the least
 Quoting: mathetes


God did it is not a scientific explanation. Science is a process of discovery. Religion is just pure dogma.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21692972


And scientists don't follow dogma? lol
 Quoting: mathetes


Well, as the story goes, if they really went to the moon, they had to use the bible to set the course right. They needed the time and date correct, they didn't have it but someone remembered a part in the bible, about the turning back some degrees so a man had a longer life.

Anyway that is the way the story goes.:)
 Quoting: Daughter

it would not be called dogma...
but there are many scientist out there that hold a undying belief in their theories...and many of these theories are at this point unprovable.
so one could say these scientist have faith in their theories!


Last Edited by psyoptics on 09/11/2012 12:49 AM
a good video editor can make anyone say anything the editor wants.
TerrorByte

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09/11/2012 12:50 AM

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Re: Time to rethink our Universe......Hubble has now discovered a galaxy that is so old and well formed, it should not exist!
This is why I'm always cautious of 'accepted Science'. Just when they think they've got something figured out, they unexpectedly discovery they had it all wrong.
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC


And by having that attitude you are doing the right thing! It used to be that you were supposed to question peoples scientific results and even run your own tests if you could to see if you can maybe make any new discoveries of your own and further the science. Just seems like now days if you question what they present as the so called final word on something and those in the comfy superior positions you get ridiculed, called a nut case and well, basically ruined as a scientist. This is happening in all areas of science and it is killing progress and allowing for way to much politics in an area that already had enough to begin with.
TerrorByte
YeshaYaHu
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09/11/2012 12:55 AM
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Re: Time to rethink our Universe......Hubble has now discovered a galaxy that is so old and well formed, it should not exist!
Proper math/science and logic, the Proof of God.

The Creation of a Universe.

[link to www.youtube.com]
psyoptics (OP)

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09/11/2012 12:58 AM

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Re: Time to rethink our Universe......Hubble has now discovered a galaxy that is so old and well formed, it should not exist!
This is why I'm always cautious of 'accepted Science'. Just when they think they've got something figured out, they unexpectedly discovery they had it all wrong.
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC


And by having that attitude you are doing the right thing! It used to be that you were supposed to question peoples scientific results and even run your own tests if you could to see if you can maybe make any new discoveries of your own and further the science. Just seems like now days if you question what they present as the so called final word on something and those in the comfy superior positions you get ridiculed, called a nut case and well, basically ruined as a scientist. This is happening in all areas of science and it is killing progress and allowing for way to much politics in an area that already had enough to begin with.
 Quoting: TerrorByte


when the scientists look to the creation of the universe with a closed mind their models will be riddled with holes and misconceptions.
we need not think here with the high and mighty...they have set themselves up for failure.

a good video editor can make anyone say anything the editor wants.
Anonymous Coward
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09/11/2012 01:37 AM
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Re: Time to rethink our Universe......Hubble has now discovered a galaxy that is so old and well formed, it should not exist!
This is why I'm always cautious of 'accepted Science'. Just when they think they've got something figured out, they unexpectedly discovery they had it all wrong.
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC


And by having that attitude you are doing the right thing! It used to be that you were supposed to question peoples scientific results and even run your own tests if you could to see if you can maybe make any new discoveries of your own and further the science. Just seems like now days if you question what they present as the so called final word on something and those in the comfy superior positions you get ridiculed, called a nut case and well, basically ruined as a scientist. This is happening in all areas of science and it is killing progress and allowing for way to much politics in an area that already had enough to begin with.
 Quoting: TerrorByte


when the scientists look to the creation of the universe with a closed mind their models will be riddled with holes and misconceptions.
we need not think here with the high and mighty...they have set themselves up for failure.

 Quoting: psyoptics

What? No legitimate scientist has a closed mind. Science, by definition, is an evolving process based on hypotheses and tests.

For the people saying that science can't be trusted because it always changes, I don't really know what to tell you. That's what science is! Would you rather they pick one position/viewpoint/theory and stick with it despite evidence to the contrary? Sounds familiar, huh?

Science = testing and updating theories and beliefs to attempt to explain the world

Religion = trying to justify a fixed viewpoint through contrived, focused, biased "studies"
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09/11/2012 01:50 AM
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Re: Time to rethink our Universe......Hubble has now discovered a galaxy that is so old and well formed, it should not exist!


Try this for evidence, math, science and logic of God.

Anonymous Coward
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09/11/2012 02:43 AM
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Re: Time to rethink our Universe......Hubble has now discovered a galaxy that is so old and well formed, it should not exist!
This is why I'm always cautious of 'accepted Science'. Just when they think they've got something figured out, they unexpectedly discovery they had it all wrong.
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC


And by having that attitude you are doing the right thing! It used to be that you were supposed to question peoples scientific results and even run your own tests if you could to see if you can maybe make any new discoveries of your own and further the science. Just seems like now days if you question what they present as the so called final word on something and those in the comfy superior positions you get ridiculed, called a nut case and well, basically ruined as a scientist. This is happening in all areas of science and it is killing progress and allowing for way to much politics in an area that already had enough to begin with.
 Quoting: TerrorByte


when the scientists look to the creation of the universe with a closed mind their models will be riddled with holes and misconceptions.
we need not think here with the high and mighty...they have set themselves up for failure.

 Quoting: psyoptics

What? No legitimate scientist has a closed mind. Science, by definition, is an evolving process based on hypotheses and tests.

For the people saying that science can't be trusted because it always changes, I don't really know what to tell you. That's what science is! Would you rather they pick one position/viewpoint/theory and stick with it despite evidence to the contrary? Sounds familiar, huh?

Science = testing and updating theories and beliefs to attempt to explain the world

Religion = trying to justify a fixed viewpoint through contrived, focused, biased "studies"
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1487956


clappa
xxx
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Re: Time to rethink our Universe......Hubble has now discovered a galaxy that is so old and well formed, it should not exist!
The Universe is infinitely large and has always existed. There was no Big Bang.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23523742


concur
YeshaYaHu
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09/11/2012 03:00 AM
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Re: Time to rethink our Universe......Hubble has now discovered a galaxy that is so old and well formed, it should not exist!
The Universe is infinitely large and has always existed. There was no Big Bang.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23523742


concur
 Quoting: xxx 1391487


There was a great receding of the Light at the beginning and then four steps later the unfolded steps of light condense into a galaxy and every galaxy birth was a big bang.
hoot no more/hasheater
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09/11/2012 03:12 AM
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Re: Time to rethink our Universe......Hubble has now discovered a galaxy that is so old and well formed, it should not exist!
Hey British AC,


why so many BS Flags? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12786780


People hate what they don't understand
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4884715


I understand very very very well that the "moon" astersnots never ever got above low earth orbit; and that everything since then put out by the uber space people should be classified as horse shit, bull shit, pig shit or chicken shit
Anonymous Coward
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09/11/2012 09:29 AM
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Re: Time to rethink our Universe......Hubble has now discovered a galaxy that is so old and well formed, it should not exist!
Hey British AC,


why so many BS Flags? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12786780


People hate what they don't understand
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4884715


I understand very very very well that the "moon" astersnots never ever got above low earth orbit; and that everything since then put out by the uber space people should be classified as horse shit, bull shit, pig shit or chicken shit
 Quoting: hoot no more/hasheater 23572066

So in other words, you live your life mystified by just about every man-made contraption that you don't personally understand.

Do you really think you're communicating with people all over the world on this site? That sounds like bullshit, too. There's no way electricity and logic can let you type and view text like this. Isn't it just as likely it's all a ploy to control you?

Do you really think your car works through combustion? Hahaha, how naive. That's obviously bullshit. Cars are clearly powered by underground electromagnetic forces and the fuel industry is just there to take advantage of unsuspecting sheeple.

Do you really think babies are formed when a sperm hooks up with an egg? That's gotta be bullshit. There's no way a little worm and a grain of sand can grow into a human. Surely our leaders just want us to have sex to placate us so they can more easily mold our thoughts.

And so on and so one.

GMAFB.
psyoptics (OP)

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09/11/2012 09:51 AM

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Re: Time to rethink our Universe......Hubble has now discovered a galaxy that is so old and well formed, it should not exist!
This is why I'm always cautious of 'accepted Science'. Just when they think they've got something figured out, they unexpectedly discovery they had it all wrong.
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC


And by having that attitude you are doing the right thing! It used to be that you were supposed to question peoples scientific results and even run your own tests if you could to see if you can maybe make any new discoveries of your own and further the science. Just seems like now days if you question what they present as the so called final word on something and those in the comfy superior positions you get ridiculed, called a nut case and well, basically ruined as a scientist. This is happening in all areas of science and it is killing progress and allowing for way to much politics in an area that already had enough to begin with.
 Quoting: TerrorByte


when the scientists look to the creation of the universe with a closed mind their models will be riddled with holes and misconceptions.
we need not think here with the high and mighty...they have set themselves up for failure.

 Quoting: psyoptics

What? No legitimate scientist has a closed mind. Science, by definition, is an evolving process based on hypotheses and tests.

For the people saying that science can't be trusted because it always changes, I don't really know what to tell you. That's what science is! Would you rather they pick one position/viewpoint/theory and stick with it despite evidence to the contrary? Sounds familiar, huh?

Science = testing and updating theories and beliefs to attempt to explain the world

Religion = trying to justify a fixed viewpoint through contrived, focused, biased "studies"
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1487956

you are correct....
a true scientist....
but we have many in fields out there that have been bought and paid for.
nowhere in anything i have said does the word POLITICS enter.
POLITICS + MONEY = GREED and DECEIT

not good to mix them with science!

Last Edited by psyoptics on 09/11/2012 09:51 AM
a good video editor can make anyone say anything the editor wants.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Time to rethink our Universe......Hubble has now discovered a galaxy that is so old and well formed, it should not exist!
[link to refreshingnews99.blogspot.in]
snip
This galaxy is so large, so fully-formed, astronomers say it shouldn't exist at all. It's called a "grand-design" spiral galaxy, and unlike most galaxies of its kind, this one is old. Like, really, really old. According to a new study conducted by researchers using NASA's Hubble Telescope, it dates back roughly 10.7-billion years — and that makes it the most ancient spiral galaxy we've ever discovered.

So every time someone spouts out this or that about things are this way or that.....

well what do we base how the universe works on?

how do we even begin to say how the universe was created?
just recently NASA has admitted there concept of how the surface of the sun functioned was completely wrong.
now they find a galaxy that breaks all the rules....this newly discovered galaxy should not exist.

yet there it is!
 Quoting: psyoptics


they see a faint flickering light and come to the conclusion its 10.7 billion years old...load of fucking shit!!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23528889


Maybe its faint because it took a couple billion light years to even get here....dumbass
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23492902


go on then einstein explain to me how 'faint' equates to 'a couple of billion light years'
Anonymous Coward
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09/11/2012 01:40 PM
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Re: Time to rethink our Universe......Hubble has now discovered a galaxy that is so old and well formed, it should not exist!
[link to refreshingnews99.blogspot.in]
snip
This galaxy is so large, so fully-formed, astronomers say it shouldn't exist at all. It's called a "grand-design" spiral galaxy, and unlike most galaxies of its kind, this one is old. Like, really, really old. According to a new study conducted by researchers using NASA's Hubble Telescope, it dates back roughly 10.7-billion years — and that makes it the most ancient spiral galaxy we've ever discovered.

So every time someone spouts out this or that about things are this way or that.....

well what do we base how the universe works on?

how do we even begin to say how the universe was created?
just recently NASA has admitted there concept of how the surface of the sun functioned was completely wrong.
now they find a galaxy that breaks all the rules....this newly discovered galaxy should not exist.

yet there it is!
 Quoting: psyoptics


they see a faint flickering light and come to the conclusion its 10.7 billion years old...load of fucking shit!!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23528889


Maybe its faint because it took a couple billion light years to even get here....dumbass
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23492902


go on then einstein explain to me how 'faint' equates to 'a couple of billion light years'
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3224220


[link to www.sky-watch.com]

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