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IF IN THE FUTURE THEY CAN INVENT TIME TRAVEL, SHOULDN'T HAVE WE HAD TIME TRAVELLERS IN THE PAST?

 
Anonymous Coward
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09/23/2012 11:31 AM
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Re: IF IN THE FUTURE THEY CAN INVENT TIME TRAVEL, SHOULDN'T HAVE WE HAD TIME TRAVELLERS IN THE PAST?
Time travel is not possible simply because time does not exist.

There is only NOW. The past is a memory and the future doesn't exist.
 Quoting: Berilium


Problem is WORDS to define what we are talking about. Let's suppose I am watching a DVD about the universe history but I decide not to watch from the beggining but I press REWIND button in the remote control from the END to the beggining, that is I invert the direction like the movie MEMENTO or that videoclip Return to Innocence from group ENIGMA.... how do we define my perception of that movie? Obviously independent from director's intention and the actual duration of the film, whether it's two hours or more.... it's me, the one who uses the remote control the one who alters the perception of the film WITHIN THE SPACE OF THE RECORDED DVD by merely pressing buttons like slow motion, forward, rewind, stop, pause and so on, so one day the film I watch could last 2 hours and perhaps other day 5 minutes if I press fast speed. In this case the timing is just the alteration of the movement of the DVD or interaction of SPACE, right?

Problem is research suggests some brains of people, doesn't matter if they are gamblers with good or bad luck or soldiers who avoid war accidents or travellers who cancel their plane or train tickets reacting to a FUTURE event.... means future is like DVD already recorded with X numbers of options or alternatives, like "director's cut final edition". If the universe is a dodecahedron soccer ball HOLOGRAM, it's possible some holographic minds have limited access to the broken mirror reality we're caught in.

Unfortunately, if that is the case and some prophets do see parts of the universal recorded tape like watching the celluloid tape of a movie before avant premiere..... it's only watching but not interacting with that reality, maybe flashback or foretelling events... isolated frames. Why "just" that?

Because the observer is merely a recorded frame of the universe, a letter from the Matrix. You just can't jump out of the frame like Schwarzenegger in Last Superhero film unless you own a Houdini movie ticket like in the script of that film. You and me can't be the mercurial twin brothers of MATRIX 2 film, we can't pass through walls, floor and doors within the matrix.
Anonymous Coward
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09/23/2012 11:33 AM
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Re: IF IN THE FUTURE THEY CAN INVENT TIME TRAVEL, SHOULDN'T HAVE WE HAD TIME TRAVELLERS IN THE PAST?
Time exists, we probably hit doom and fucked ourselves = slight proof we never got the chance to time travel in our future.
Anonymous Coward
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09/23/2012 11:43 AM
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Re: IF IN THE FUTURE THEY CAN INVENT TIME TRAVEL, SHOULDN'T HAVE WE HAD TIME TRAVELLERS IN THE PAST?
Time and Space exist together. You look at the Past when you view the stars or the universe. It took light billions of years to reach your eyeballs and light (the fastest) left a long time ago and is only reaching your eyeballs later traveling at light speed - around 6 trillion miles a year.

So with time traveling if it can be done is like going through a worm-hole that puts you either deep out in space or you have a means of holding you here but entering another universe in the multi-verse at a different time because not all universes would be the same only close universes in the multi-verse the further you ventured away from your main universe, the stranger the new multi-verse universe would be.

Or so they say! They think right now that all universes in the multi-verse would be different but.........would they be different if you traveled close to your universe??
Anonymous Coward
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09/23/2012 11:44 AM
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Re: IF IN THE FUTURE THEY CAN INVENT TIME TRAVEL, SHOULDN'T HAVE WE HAD TIME TRAVELLERS IN THE PAST?
Time is meaningless unless it serves you to measure something or an activity. Where I write from does have a different time than other part of the same country I live, different from every single country. On Mars the rotation is different and the day is called "sol", cesium "clocks" running simultaneously on earth, inside planes going from west to east and viceversa and on the moon had different ticking. It's said this is due to mass and different gravity affecting "time". My conclusion and I am not physicist, is whatever gravity is or other physical thing is not affecting "time" at all BUT THE CESIUM CLOCK measuring that "time". In that case matter will be affected everywhere under X unknown circumstances. If in this very moment the whole galaxy is dragged by another one, the "clock" whatever you use will be affected , even in atomic sense and we wouldn't even know. If the earth spins faster and shorten the rotation to the third part (let's say 24-8 hours=16 hours), even children or people retired without the labor everyday tension could "feel" days and years are speeding fast but all clocks wouldn't measure because IT WILL BE AS RIDICULOUS AS WATCHING QUICK CHAPLINESQUE MOVEMENTS of people watching their own clocks. We could be changed to even in atomic level. It would be like that slooooooow motion FX in the first movie Star Trek passing through a black hole or something, nobody could detect the alteration. Of course, in my example is the opposite, fast movements rather than slow motion.
Anonymous Coward
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09/23/2012 11:46 AM
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Re: IF IN THE FUTURE THEY CAN INVENT TIME TRAVEL, SHOULDN'T HAVE WE HAD TIME TRAVELLERS IN THE PAST?
ufo sightings might be time travellers coming back
Anonymous Coward
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09/23/2012 11:57 AM
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Re: IF IN THE FUTURE THEY CAN INVENT TIME TRAVEL, SHOULDN'T HAVE WE HAD TIME TRAVELLERS IN THE PAST?
Time and Space exist together. You look at the Past when you view the stars or the universe. It took light billions of years to reach your eyeballs and light (the fastest) left a long time ago and is only reaching your eyeballs later traveling at light speed - around 6 trillion miles a year.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4436859


That could be a dogma too. One of the nearest star is Betelguese. Astronomers and physicist "measured" with simple parallax trigonometry and they don't know how far is it. The calculated dates are between 300 and 1000 light-years, that is an error of 700 light-years for one of the NEAREST stars. That means mostly we are dealing with hypothetical measurements. Others have noticed the holographic universe theory could explain why some stars and galaxies look repetitive as if we were caught inside a fishbowl aquarium, a smaller universe reflecting itself.

So, we are just TOLD we are watching the light of stars which are no longer there, who can be sure really? Assuming that is correct (and I can't swear it is), everything we do is not even "present" because light takes some "time" to reach our eyes INVERTED and then the brain reinterprets everything upside down and we see "normal" like in a photo camera. That amount of time could be half-life of an atomic particle. If that is what we SEE, it takes more "time" the sense of smelling and touching, etc. That would mean WE NEVER SEE THINGS IN PRESENT TIME but sort of PAST CONTINOUS... "I was watching" until 7 minutes after , the explosion of the Sun reached earth and burned us all........
Anonymous Coward
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09/23/2012 11:57 AM
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Re: IF IN THE FUTURE THEY CAN INVENT TIME TRAVEL, SHOULDN'T HAVE WE HAD TIME TRAVELLERS IN THE PAST?
Time does exist.

But in response to your question OP, obviously humans never ever create a time machine.

If humans were ever able to create a time machine we would have been visited by our future selves all throughout our existance and it would be public global general knowledge.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24128460


Unless the device used can only be used to travel at max. back to the time when it was constructed.
Anonymous Coward
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09/23/2012 11:58 AM
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Re: IF IN THE FUTURE THEY CAN INVENT TIME TRAVEL, SHOULDN'T HAVE WE HAD TIME TRAVELLERS IN THE PAST?
ufo sightings might be time travellers coming back
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24287386


In other thread I told UFOs have always behaved like holograms shapeshifting IN SITU....
Anonymous Coward
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09/23/2012 12:04 PM
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Re: IF IN THE FUTURE THEY CAN INVENT TIME TRAVEL, SHOULDN'T HAVE WE HAD TIME TRAVELLERS IN THE PAST?
Time and Space exist together. You look at the Past when you view the stars or the universe. It took light billions of years to reach your eyeballs and light (the fastest) left a long time ago and is only reaching your eyeballs later traveling at light speed - around 6 trillion miles a year.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4436859


That could be a dogma too. One of the nearest star is Betelguese. Astronomers and physicist "measured" with simple parallax trigonometry and they don't know how far is it. The calculated dates are between 300 and 1000 light-years, that is an error of 700 light-years for one of the NEAREST stars. That means mostly we are dealing with hypothetical measurements. Others have noticed the holographic universe theory could explain why some stars and galaxies look repetitive as if we were caught inside a fishbowl aquarium, a smaller universe reflecting itself.

So, we are just TOLD we are watching the light of stars which are no longer there, who can be sure really? Assuming that is correct (and I can't swear it is), everything we do is not even "present" because light takes some "time" to reach our eyes INVERTED and then the brain reinterprets everything upside down and we see "normal" like in a photo camera. That amount of time could be half-life of an atomic particle. If that is what we SEE, it takes more "time" the sense of smelling and touching, etc. That would mean WE NEVER SEE THINGS IN PRESENT TIME but sort of PAST CONTINOUS... "I was watching" until 7 minutes after , the explosion of the Sun reached earth and burned us all........
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24286883


And even that, THIS IS NOT TIME COEXISTING WITH SPACE, is just a way we use to measure some activity or movements and happenings IN SPACE as we perceive it. In the example above is the way used to measure the running of light through vaccum space. Inside a chamber filled with cesium the results will be slower.
Anonymous Coward
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09/23/2012 12:31 PM
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Re: IF IN THE FUTURE THEY CAN INVENT TIME TRAVEL, SHOULDN'T HAVE WE HAD TIME TRAVELLERS IN THE PAST?
There are stars that are cephiod (spelling) variables, which are used to measure star distances now. They are more accurate in obtaining a real measurement to the stars. And if the parallax measurements get better, it is a simple triangle type of measurment with Earth on opposite sides of the Sun and the angle to the star while measuring when the Earth is on either side of the Sun and thus a simple equation to figure out the distance to the nearest stars. It is darn accurate nowadays.

Anyway without wanting to get in trouble because all of this was on another forum that still exists (Art Bell's BBS forum does not anymore) more threads that included - Time_Travel_0 (John Titor - a phony name given at the time):

[link to timetravelinstitute.com]

[link to timetravelinstitute.com]

you will need IE to view or MS Microsoft Word (97) to view these with - MS Microsoft Word Viewer can be downloaded for free if you do not have Microsoft Office Software.

These links will not include the two faxes to Art Bell by John Titor (which are somewhere on the Internet still) and the IRC Chat that John Titor was on (still on the Internet somewhere).
Anonymous Coward
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09/23/2012 12:32 PM
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Re: IF IN THE FUTURE THEY CAN INVENT TIME TRAVEL, SHOULDN'T HAVE WE HAD TIME TRAVELLERS IN THE PAST?
the earliest time in our universe to see time travelers would be when we successfully time travel first.
Anonymous Coward
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09/23/2012 12:32 PM
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Re: IF IN THE FUTURE THEY CAN INVENT TIME TRAVEL, SHOULDN'T HAVE WE HAD TIME TRAVELLERS IN THE PAST?
wow what an ignorant post, so you can certify beyond the shadow of a doubt that NO time traveller has ever gone into Earth's past?


if you even attempt to answer that in the affirmative you are a bigger moron than your post makes you appear.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16069571


Since time and space are connected by motion then conservation laws apply. To “go back in time” implies setting the physical conditions as they were in a previous state. So, in order to effectively traverse into the past, the physical conditions of the present universe would need to have all its motions reorganized into the target state. You have one hell of an engineering problem rewinding the motions of the entire universe. There is no tense other than the present, the past is no more in as much as the future is not yet.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3271634


...and can you be sure there aren't other dimensions where the laws of physics of this dimension don't apply?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23924328


No more than you can be certain that they do exist or exist in states that promote whatever outcome you are desiring. In the orthogonal universe we enjoy, time and motion are conserved.
Anonymous Coward
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09/23/2012 12:35 PM
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Re: IF IN THE FUTURE THEY CAN INVENT TIME TRAVEL, SHOULDN'T HAVE WE HAD TIME TRAVELLERS IN THE PAST?
[link to timetravelinstitute.com]


That is all I care to give because like I said - it has been discussed to death over the last 10 years or 11 years even by physicists who claim that they are not working on time travel by Dr. Brown who made a post about what it would take and how Titor's time machine did not fit what was really needed - to Dr. Kaku and utube videos to other physicists and how they think the only way to travel in time and space would be a wormhole that would take a lot of energy to hold open to travel to the stars or even in so-called time in the first place.

Well, anyone can look all that up along with science papers to trying to create a black hole (singularity) at CERN and anything else written over the years.

[link to arxiv.org]

It gets too involved and there is only so much time in a 24 hour day in the first place.
Anonymous Coward
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09/23/2012 12:42 PM
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Re: IF IN THE FUTURE THEY CAN INVENT TIME TRAVEL, SHOULDN'T HAVE WE HAD TIME TRAVELLERS IN THE PAST?
Those links where suppose to be different. Sometimes I do not copy the link correctly anymore, and I should have checked.

Darn software from microsoft still don't work correctly or else my computer is getting so old it is getting goofy or something.

Now I have to look them up again:

Ugh:

[link to timetravelinstitute.com]

[link to timetravelinstitute.com]

darn copy don't work correctly in Notepad sometimes, perhaps it is the keyboard going down the drain so to speak. I will have to get out another keyboard I have and see about that. Wore it out I guess.
Anonymous Coward
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09/23/2012 12:57 PM
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Re: IF IN THE FUTURE THEY CAN INVENT TIME TRAVEL, SHOULDN'T HAVE WE HAD TIME TRAVELLERS IN THE PAST?
There is no such thing as time, only point of views. The material world does not really exist.
Anonymous Coward
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09/23/2012 01:07 PM
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Re: IF IN THE FUTURE THEY CAN INVENT TIME TRAVEL, SHOULDN'T HAVE WE HAD TIME TRAVELLERS IN THE PAST?
the earliest time in our universe to see time travelers would be when we successfully time travel first.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24191032


Everyone would want to see Elvis in Vegas at least once..
Anonymous Coward
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09/23/2012 01:09 PM
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Re: IF IN THE FUTURE THEY CAN INVENT TIME TRAVEL, SHOULDN'T HAVE WE HAD TIME TRAVELLERS IN THE PAST?
Every time someone makes a decision (an action) a new branch forward is created and the previous branch where the action is not taken exists as well, so there are an infinite number of realities. IF we could travel back, finding your original tree would be impossible.
Goob

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09/23/2012 03:32 PM

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Re: IF IN THE FUTURE THEY CAN INVENT TIME TRAVEL, SHOULDN'T HAVE WE HAD TIME TRAVELLERS IN THE PAST?
There is no such thing as time, only point of views. The material world does not really exist.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21322430


It exists from our point of view.
Anonymous Coward
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09/23/2012 07:03 PM
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Re: IF IN THE FUTURE THEY CAN INVENT TIME TRAVEL, SHOULDN'T HAVE WE HAD TIME TRAVELLERS IN THE PAST?
Every time someone makes a decision (an action) a new branch forward is created and the previous branch where the action is not taken exists as well, so there are an infinite number of realities. IF we could travel back, finding your original tree would be impossible.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20442113


Every time someone makes a decision (an action) a new branch forward is created and the previous branch where the action is not taken exists as well, so there are an infinite number of realities. IF we could travel back, finding your original tree would be impossible.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20442113


No, we don't know if there are other realities and even less if there are infinite number of realities.
If we could measure "accuratly" the distance of stars with parallax OBVIOUSLY we wouldn't have an error of 700 light-years in one of the nearest more visible stars. It's a fact the ones which are far away than Betelguese (most of them) are actually impossible to be measured accurately, unless you have faith in the dogma, of course. More than that, the so-called Doppler effect is used as an example compared with SOUND as if sound and light behave the same. The example is repeated so many times to exhaustion level because it's easy to be kept in our minds, a big lie. Maybe for such reasons some idiotic scientists got to the conclusion some stars were older than the universe ! With sacred cow Math it was already "proved" earth was flat and now in incredibly stupid cynicism they figured the anthropic universe which in the words of a Nobel Prize winner, means the cosmos somehow "knew" we were gonna come to ask why cosmos is the way it is, hence science spins once again around US disguised with funny words and hiding incredible ignorance.

Lights from stars have to pass through a lot of things including dust, so what our devices perceive as "red" or "blue" star is something not all "experts" agree.
What Michio Kaku prima donna doesn't say is if a chrononaut goes inside a wormhole he would turn into a SPAGUETTI-MAN squeezed to death without being the rubber-man from Fantastic Four!
Anonymous Coward
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09/23/2012 07:10 PM
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Re: IF IN THE FUTURE THEY CAN INVENT TIME TRAVEL, SHOULDN'T HAVE WE HAD TIME TRAVELLERS IN THE PAST?
There is no such thing as time, only point of views. The material world does not really exist.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21322430


That's philosophy you won't believe next time you're inside a car after an accident and bleeding to death. No matter how many times you repeat like the character from the movie The Cell, "it's no real, it's not real" you will see, hear, smell and feel that flesh, bone and blood reality. We can say most of the universe maybe is "vaccum" or "empty" and yet NOT ALL. If I were near you and punch you on the face to wake you up to this reality and I could swear you wouldn't react saying such thing like you wrote above!
Anonymous Coward
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09/23/2012 07:17 PM
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Re: IF IN THE FUTURE THEY CAN INVENT TIME TRAVEL, SHOULDN'T HAVE WE HAD TIME TRAVELLERS IN THE PAST?
Every time someone makes a decision (an action) a new branch forward is created and the previous branch where the action is not taken exists as well, so there are an infinite number of realities. IF we could travel back, finding your original tree would be impossible.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20442113


Nah! That's philosophy too you were forced to accept by parrot repetition. What do we know by experience is if I turn to the left around the corner it just means I didn't turn to the right, period. Your post wants us to accept maybe there was another "me" in a parallel reality who went to the right. We don't know that as a fact. It's an example repeated in movies like Escape From the Planet of the Apes and so on.
HeavenlyAlchemy
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09/23/2012 07:44 PM
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Re: IF IN THE FUTURE THEY CAN INVENT TIME TRAVEL, SHOULDN'T HAVE WE HAD TIME TRAVELLERS IN THE PAST?
If someone were time traveling into the past they really couldn't say, "hey, I'm from the future." or they would probably be committed.

Also they would know the clothing and the customs of the time because it is in the past, so they would fit in. Just someone coming in from out of town.
Saddletramp
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09/23/2012 07:55 PM

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Re: IF IN THE FUTURE THEY CAN INVENT TIME TRAVEL, SHOULDN'T HAVE WE HAD TIME TRAVELLERS IN THE PAST?
How do you know we haven't had them, perhaps those we consider schizophrenic are actually people who traveled back in time?!?!?
"And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius

"Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..."
Anonymous Coward
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09/23/2012 08:47 PM
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Re: IF IN THE FUTURE THEY CAN INVENT TIME TRAVEL, SHOULDN'T HAVE WE HAD TIME TRAVELLERS IN THE PAST?
If someone were time traveling into the past they really couldn't say, "hey, I'm from the future." or they would probably be committed.

Also they would know the clothing and the customs of the time because it is in the past, so they would fit in. Just someone coming in from out of town.
 Quoting: HeavenlyAlchemy 23961878


speaking of time,
why do we have to use the Jesus time calendender 2012 foistered upon us by an italian pope Gregory?
how did the chinese or indonesians keep calenders in the old days before Gregory?
when was year 1 in their calendar?
it's probably a better system than the Jesus calendar???
Kirk

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09/23/2012 08:48 PM

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Re: IF IN THE FUTURE THEY CAN INVENT TIME TRAVEL, SHOULDN'T HAVE WE HAD TIME TRAVELLERS IN THE PAST?
wow what an ignorant post, so you can certify beyond the shadow of a doubt that NO time traveller has ever gone into Earth's past?


if you even attempt to answer that in the affirmative you are a bigger moron than your post makes you appear.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16069571


there are paradoxes that make time travel logically impossible into the past.
Worry is a misuse of the imagination.
Anonymous Coward
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09/23/2012 09:02 PM
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Re: IF IN THE FUTURE THEY CAN INVENT TIME TRAVEL, SHOULDN'T HAVE WE HAD TIME TRAVELLERS IN THE PAST?
If someone were time traveling into the past they really couldn't say, "hey, I'm from the future." or they would probably be committed.

Also they would know the clothing and the customs of the time because it is in the past, so they would fit in. Just someone coming in from out of town.
 Quoting: HeavenlyAlchemy 23961878


speaking of time,
why do we have to use the Jesus time calendender 2012 foistered upon us by an italian pope Gregory?
how did the chinese or indonesians keep calenders in the old days before Gregory?
when was year 1 in their calendar?
it's probably a better system than the Jesus calendar???
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24314920


Good question, we don't have to, the only reason people do is because the world follows the rules of whoever rules at the time. Whoops there is that t word again!
HeavenlyAlchemy
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09/23/2012 09:04 PM
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Re: IF IN THE FUTURE THEY CAN INVENT TIME TRAVEL, SHOULDN'T HAVE WE HAD TIME TRAVELLERS IN THE PAST?
If someone were time traveling into the past they really couldn't say, "hey, I'm from the future." or they would probably be committed.

Also they would know the clothing and the customs of the time because it is in the past, so they would fit in. Just someone coming in from out of town.
 Quoting: HeavenlyAlchemy 23961878


speaking of time,
why do we have to use the Jesus time calendender 2012 foistered upon us by an italian pope Gregory?
how did the chinese or indonesians keep calenders in the old days before Gregory?
when was year 1 in their calendar?
it's probably a better system than the Jesus calendar???
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24314920


Good question, we don't have to, the only reason people do is because the world follows the rules of whoever rules at the time. Whoops there is that t word again!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23961878


Jeesh, I forgot to post my name there. I should probably log in, it would make this easier!
Anonymous Coward
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09/23/2012 09:06 PM
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Re: IF IN THE FUTURE THEY CAN INVENT TIME TRAVEL, SHOULDN'T HAVE WE HAD TIME TRAVELLERS IN THE PAST?
[link to www.popsci.com]

not in the multiverse is there paradoxes. There are not!

And we use a word "time" because we have to. If you look at a star tonight, you are looking at the Past, and if you magically could go there in an instant, you would see that the star has changed. Yes, change makes time as a measurement because we use no other word except "time" to describe how change takes place. That means that for us mere humans that there is time, and the universe is not static (no change equals no time then and only then) so therefore there is time, for it has to be. You can not leave it out of the equation.
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09/23/2012 11:53 PM
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Re: IF IN THE FUTURE THEY CAN INVENT TIME TRAVEL, SHOULDN'T HAVE WE HAD TIME TRAVELLERS IN THE PAST?
In other words, oscillating atoms are better time keepers and they are consistent throughout universal histories.
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09/23/2012 11:55 PM
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Re: IF IN THE FUTURE THEY CAN INVENT TIME TRAVEL, SHOULDN'T HAVE WE HAD TIME TRAVELLERS IN THE PAST?
wow what an ignorant post, so you can certify beyond the shadow of a doubt that NO time traveller has ever gone into Earth's past?


if you even attempt to answer that in the affirmative you are a bigger moron than your post makes you appear.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16069571


true they have not

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