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The Rapture, Pre-Trib believers please watch!!

 
Machine42
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09/24/2012 10:18 AM

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The Rapture, Pre-Trib believers please watch!!


Please do not be deceived, there is no pre-tribulation rapture.
Anonymous Coward
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09/24/2012 10:24 AM
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Re: The Rapture, Pre-Trib believers please watch!!
You don't say? How about no rapture at all?
Anonymous Coward
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09/24/2012 10:26 AM
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Re: The Rapture, Pre-Trib believers please watch!!
those who can think know there is no pre tribe and no rapture.
Anonymous Coward
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09/24/2012 10:42 AM
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Re: The Rapture, Pre-Trib believers please watch!!
about dang time!!! book
Anonymous Coward
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09/24/2012 10:46 AM
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Re: The Rapture, Pre-Trib believers please watch!!
those who can think know there is no pre tribe and no rapture.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23356301


i will have to disagree with you,the rapture is our blessed hope.why does the bible tell us to comfort one another with these words if there was to be no comfort.??? Are we to comfort ourselves through these troubles,when the only way out is to be beheaded?? I think not my friend.my god is a rightous judge,to disagree with the rapture is to call gods judgement unfair. The lord will gather all in whome he sees himself,and every innocent lamb and house them in his fathers barn for the length of his wrath on earth.if you dont have that hope and faith that the lord will do what is right,you dont know the lord as he really is.godbless you
Keep2theCode

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09/24/2012 10:52 AM
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Re: The Rapture, Pre-Trib believers please watch!!
Another pre-trib Rapture hater; how shocking. Utterly shocking as well is the presumption that pre-tribbers never heard any of the lame "arguments" presented, such as that 'saints' or 'elect' must always mean Christians in this age. There are plenty of threads about such thing already, why start another? There are plenty of documents online for anyone to read if they're undecided. And for many of us, we've been all over this debate for years and still stick to what we see in scripture itself, including the Greek text.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward
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Re: The Rapture, Pre-Trib believers please watch!!
Another pre-trib Rapture hater; how shocking. Utterly shocking as well is the presumption that pre-tribbers never heard any of the lame "arguments" presented, such as that 'saints' or 'elect' must always mean Christians in this age. There are plenty of threads about such thing already, why start another? There are plenty of documents online for anyone to read if they're undecided. And for many of us, we've been all over this debate for years and still stick to what we see in scripture itself, including the Greek text.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


amen to that,who am i to say who will be left behind to face the trib but imho those christians who scoff at the rapture are those who are not watching.they mistakenly think that there will be a third temple or ww3 to give them the sign that jesus will return.they think theyv got at least seven years untill he shows up again so dont feel the urgency at this time to watch.to them jesus is coming as a thief in the night .the second coming is described in the opposite manner,as lightning shines from the east to the west,every eye shall see him.two seperate events clearly.why are their hearts blinded to the truth???well why are israels hearts blinded???because its gods plan and his will ,will be done.he knew us from the foundation of the world,he knows lifes and our futures.he knows who will be raptured and who will stay behind for refinement before being martyd for their love of him.he reveals his plans to whome he will and i thank him everyday for calling me to watch.godbless
Keep2theCode

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09/24/2012 11:19 AM
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Re: The Rapture, Pre-Trib believers please watch!!
amen to that,who am i to say who will be left behind to face the trib but imho those christians who scoff at the rapture are those who are not watching.they mistakenly think that there will be a third temple or ww3 to give them the sign that jesus will return.they think theyv got at least seven years untill he shows up again so dont feel the urgency at this time to watch.to them jesus is coming as a thief in the night .the second coming is described in the opposite manner,as lightning shines from the east to the west,every eye shall see him.two seperate events clearly.why are their hearts blinded to the truth???well why are israels hearts blinded???because its gods plan and his will ,will be done.he knew us from the foundation of the world,he knows lifes and our futures.he knows who will be raptured and who will stay behind for refinement before being martyd for their love of him.he reveals his plans to whome he will and i thank him everyday for calling me to watch.godbless
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8053773


Yes, Paul said that the people of Israel are blinded UNTIL the full number of Gentiles has "come in". That term Paul used is for when a ship can't set sail till the full complement of sailors is on board. At the Jerusalem Council, James referred to an OT quote that spoke of a time in the future when "David's fallen tent" would be restored. Clearly there is a beginning and an end to "the times of the Gentiles", though of course any Jew can become a Christian.

And not only is Jesus to come like a thief in the night, he also said he'd come "at a time you do NOT expect him". Many do not expect him!
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Machine42 (OP)

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09/24/2012 11:26 AM

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Re: The Rapture, Pre-Trib believers please watch!!
The elect are not the jewish people, it is everyone who believes in Christ. The rapture and the second coming are one and the same event. The comfort we have is Jesus being with us in rough times, maybe he will protect us supernaturally during the tribulation, but since when do we expect as Christians to not go threw the wrath of the devil in this life.

They called out in a loud voice, "How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?" Avenge our blood!!! Why are they asking about avenging there blood if they were raptured away. The only answer you have is those are the ones "left behind" just like the make believe series. This whole idea of a pre-trib rapture is a recent idea.

Last Edited by Machine42 on 09/24/2012 11:26 AM
Anonymous Coward
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09/24/2012 11:31 AM
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Re: The Rapture, Pre-Trib believers please watch!!
its just so amazing to think about it happening.imagine if it happened today,the world would certainly not be expecting it.the apostles probably expected these things to happen in their lifetimes,they certainly preached that the end of all things was near...how much closer are we today.wow just to think,the fulfillment of all things has been reserved for our generation to experience.times may be getting rough and any moment now could take a serious turn for the worst but im so very privelliged and thankfull to god to be alive in these endtimes. May god guide you safley home.
Keep2theCode

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Re: The Rapture, Pre-Trib believers please watch!!
The elect are not the jewish people, it is everyone who believes in Christ. The rapture and the second coming are one and the same event. The comfort we have is Jesus being with us in rough times, maybe he will protect us supernaturally during the tribulation, but since when do we expect as Christians to not go threw the wrath of the devil in this life.

They called out in a loud voice, "How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?" Avenge our blood!!! Why are they asking about avenging there blood if they were raptured away. The only answer you have is those are the ones "left behind" just like the make believe series. This whole idea of a pre-trib rapture is a recent idea.
 Quoting: Machine42


I don't know any pre-tribber who thinks that the elect are solely the jew s, so that argument is a straw man. The elect, or saints, are believers in any age. So during the Trib., they are any who place faith in God and give him their loyalty, rather than to the Beast.

The Rapture is NOT a 'coming' at all, since Jesus does not touch the earth or bring anyone with him, as opposed to the 2nd Coming when he does both.

If the 'blessed hope' is merely the comfort all believers have always have, then it is no HOPE at all, because we already have it. As the writer of Hebrews said, nobody hopes for what they already have.

The martyrs under the altar were killed during the Trib., but again, they were not part of the church.

And please, for the love of all that is holy, do NOT keep spreading that lie about the Rapture being 'recent'.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Keep2theCode

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09/24/2012 11:33 AM
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Re: The Rapture, Pre-Trib believers please watch!!
its just so amazing to think about it happening.imagine if it happened today,the world would certainly not be expecting it.the apostles probably expected these things to happen in their lifetimes,they certainly preached that the end of all things was near...how much closer are we today.wow just to think,the fulfillment of all things has been reserved for our generation to experience.times may be getting rough and any moment now could take a serious turn for the worst but im so very privelliged and thankfull to god to be alive in these endtimes. May god guide you safley home.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8053773


banana2
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward
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09/24/2012 11:34 AM
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Re: The Rapture, Pre-Trib believers please watch!!
I didn't watch the video because it chews up too much of my monthly bandwidth quota

but whatever these clowns are saying, I WILL BET $5OOOO WILL NOT HAPPEN!!!!!

Any takers? Oh right! Jesus don't like gambling, right?

Fucking delusional idiots

iamwith whatever iamwith whatever iamwith
Machine42 (OP)

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09/24/2012 11:38 AM

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Re: The Rapture, Pre-Trib believers please watch!!
I didn't watch the video because it chews up too much of my monthly bandwidth quota

but whatever these clowns are saying, I WILL BET $5OOOO WILL NOT HAPPEN!!!!!

Any takers? Oh right! Jesus don't like gambling, right?

Fucking delusional idiots

iamwith whatever iamwith whatever iamwith
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24043971


The video says there is NO-pre trib rapture, so you actually agree.
Machine42 (OP)

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09/24/2012 11:43 AM

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Re: The Rapture, Pre-Trib believers please watch!!
Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.
Keep2theCode

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09/24/2012 11:48 AM
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Re: The Rapture, Pre-Trib believers please watch!!
Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.
 Quoting: Machine42


What day? The Day of the Lord, aka the Tribulation.

What must precede it? The Departure and the revealing of the man of lawlessness.

The word 'apostasy' simply means 'departure, standing away from'; any other meaning must be supplied by the context. In this case, the context is not false teaching but the Day of the Lord, the end times. In fact, 'departure' was the way it was rendered in English before the KJV. And in this context, considering also what Paul had talked about in the prior letter, The Departure is clearly referencing the church; that is, the time of the church's departing... now we call it the Rapture, after the Latin rendering.

Many err in confusing the Day of the Lord with what must precede it.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Machine42 (OP)

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09/24/2012 11:55 AM

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Re: The Rapture, Pre-Trib believers please watch!!
Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.
 Quoting: Machine42


What day? The Day of the Lord, aka the Tribulation.

What must precede it? The Departure and the revealing of the man of lawlessness.

The word 'apostasy' simply means 'departure, standing away from'; any other meaning must be supplied by the context. In this case, the context is not false teaching but the Day of the Lord, the end times. In fact, 'departure' was the way it was rendered in English before the KJV. And in this context, considering also what Paul had talked about in the prior letter, The Departure is clearly referencing the church; that is, the time of the church's departing... now we call it the Rapture, after the Latin rendering.

Many err in confusing the Day of the Lord with what must precede it.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


I disagree, this is talking about a man turning his back on god and falling away. For example we have pushed God out of the school system, we are in the mist of a great falling away. Also, look at the issue of Gay marriage. Why is it that people are always bending the words to hear what you want to hear to fit your theories. Just comprehend it as it is written. When you have to explain away every verse to help the pre-trib view you know something is wrong. If there was a pre-trib rapture it would have been clear in the bible.
Keep2theCode

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09/24/2012 12:01 PM
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Re: The Rapture, Pre-Trib believers please watch!!
I disagree, this is talking about a man turning his back on god and falling away. For example we have pushed God out of the school system, we are in the mist of a great falling away. Also, look at the issue of Gay marriage. Why is it that people are always bending the words to hear what you want to hear to fit your theories. Just comprehend it as it is written. When you have to explain away every verse to help the pre-trib view you know something is wrong. If there was a pre-trib rapture it would have been clear in the bible.
 Quoting: Machine42


It's fine to disagree, but when the Greek lexicons and linguistic rules say a word's semantic range in context, we can't just make it mean what we want. There is nothing in the context that says apostasy must mean a departure from the faith.

Certainly there are other passages of scripture that talk about people departing from the faith, so it's right to render the word apostasy as such in those contexts. Certainly also there is ample evidence of people falling from the faith. But neither of those things has bearing on the meaning of apostasy in the context in which Paul writes about how to know when we are not yet in the Day of the Lord.

Everybody can accuse everybody else of only hearing what they want to hear; it's a useless charge to make. I can also tell you to "comprehend it as it is written", so why bother saying that? Is it not I who have appealed to what is written, the context?

The pre-trib view is well-argued in many places, and in this thread alone I've debunked every claim and point you've raised. So it is not just my view that has "to explain away every verse"; LOOK IN THE MIRROR. Your view is NOT CLEAR AT ALL.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward
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09/24/2012 12:04 PM
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Re: The Rapture, Pre-Trib believers please watch!!
The Day of the Lord is the 3 days of darkness.
Machine42 (OP)

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09/24/2012 12:13 PM

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Re: The Rapture, Pre-Trib believers please watch!!
I disagree, this is talking about a man turning his back on god and falling away. For example we have pushed God out of the school system, we are in the mist of a great falling away. Also, look at the issue of Gay marriage. Why is it that people are always bending the words to hear what you want to hear to fit your theories. Just comprehend it as it is written. When you have to explain away every verse to help the pre-trib view you know something is wrong. If there was a pre-trib rapture it would have been clear in the bible.
 Quoting: Machine42


It's fine to disagree, but when the Greek lexicons and linguistic rules say a word's semantic range in context, we can't just make it mean what we want. There is nothing in the context that says apostasy must mean a departure from the faith.

Certainly there are other passages of scripture that talk about people departing from the faith, so it's right to render the word apostasy as such in those contexts. Certainly also there is ample evidence of people falling from the faith. But neither of those things has bearing on the meaning of apostasy in the context in which Paul writes about how to know when we are not yet in the Day of the Lord.

Everybody can accuse everybody else of only hearing what they want to hear; it's a useless charge to make. I can also tell you to "comprehend it as it is written", so why bother saying that? Is it not I who have appealed to what is written, the context?

The pre-trib view is well-argued in many places, and in this thread alone I've debunked every claim and point you've raised. So it is not just my view that has "to explain away every verse"; LOOK IN THE MIRROR. Your view is NOT CLEAR AT ALL.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


I dont think it gets more clear then this...

29 “Immediately after the distress of those days

“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’

30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d] 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. (this is the rapture, immediately after the tribulation)
Keep2theCode

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09/24/2012 12:16 PM
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Re: The Rapture, Pre-Trib believers please watch!!
I dont think it gets more clear then this...

29 “Immediately after the distress of those days

“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’

30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d] 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. (this is the rapture, immediately after the tribulation)
 Quoting: Machine42


No, and you're ignoring everything I'm saying. You lump any and every prophecy into one confused mess, ignore context, fail to address linguistic issues, and just go on like I haven't said a thing.

Last Edited by Keep2theCode on 09/24/2012 12:17 PM
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward
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09/24/2012 12:31 PM
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Re: The Rapture, Pre-Trib believers please watch!!
1 starred for deceiving the masses. :)
Anonymous Coward
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09/24/2012 12:42 PM
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Re: The Rapture, Pre-Trib believers please watch!!
I disagree, this is talking about a man turning his back on god and falling away. For example we have pushed God out of the school system, we are in the mist of a great falling away. Also, look at the issue of Gay marriage. Why is it that people are always bending the words to hear what you want to hear to fit your theories. Just comprehend it as it is written. When you have to explain away every verse to help the pre-trib view you know something is wrong. If there was a pre-trib rapture it would have been clear in the bible.
 Quoting: Machine42


It's fine to disagree, but when the Greek lexicons and linguistic rules say a word's semantic range in context, we can't just make it mean what we want. There is nothing in the context that says apostasy must mean a departure from the faith.

Certainly there are other passages of scripture that talk about people departing from the faith, so it's right to render the word apostasy as such in those contexts. Certainly also there is ample evidence of people falling from the faith. But neither of those things has bearing on the meaning of apostasy in the context in which Paul writes about how to know when we are not yet in the Day of the Lord.

Everybody can accuse everybody else of only hearing what they want to hear; it's a useless charge to make. I can also tell you to "comprehend it as it is written", so why bother saying that? Is it not I who have appealed to what is written, the context?

The pre-trib view is well-argued in many places, and in this thread alone I've debunked every claim and point you've raised. So it is not just my view that has "to explain away every verse"; LOOK IN THE MIRROR. Your view is NOT CLEAR AT ALL.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


I dont think it gets more clear then this...

29 “Immediately after the distress of those days

“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’

30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d] 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. (this is the rapture, immediately after the tribulation)
 Quoting: Machine42


Yes the 3 Days of Darkness, but no rapture, this is false translation or fraud.

Nobody is gathered from the 4 winds of heaven, that alone should CLUE YOU IN. This is Satanic stuff, not of God.

The sun will be darkened IS the 3 Days of Darkness I have been teaching about. Haen't you had enough TRIB already? The earth is tired, the judgement is to happen. No trib after it, we get to work on the age of light. Its time to grow you mind or keep it buried in the sand. To each to decide.

After the 3DD, jillions of craft will be visible, and the removal of thugs complete. There will be 1/2 the people GONE and those left behind the blessed ones who MIGHT get their heads out of the sand.

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