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Why Christians Believe Homosexuality, And The Democratic Party Is Wrong

 
Rising Son
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09/25/2012 05:02 AM

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Why Christians Believe Homosexuality, And The Democratic Party Is Wrong
This is what I believe, and what a majority of my fellow Christians believe. If I am wrong, then so be it, but that is for God to decide:

The bible can be interpreted multiple ways, and when you consider the many translations and languages that helped to compose it, that is understandable. However, when you consider all of the laws of the Old Testament, you must compare those with the popular belief structure of the time when the book they were contained in was written, so it follows that they were interpreted that way by the humans who wrote about them.

When you further consider ALL of the laws of the Old Testament, then compare them in relation to the message that Jesus gave us, it is easy to delineate and clearly define which laws were distorted by the biases of the time.

What many fail to see, however, is that Jesus did in fact uphold the law against homosexuality when he specifically mentioned "sexual immorality" in the books of Matthew and Mark:

Matthew 15:18-20

18 But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man unclean. 19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. 20 These are what make a man unclean; but eating with unwashed hands does not make him unclean.

Mark 7:20-23

20 He went on: “What comes out of a man is what makes him unclean. 21 For from within, out of men’s hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, 22 greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. 23 All these evils come from inside and make a man unclean.

If that wasn't specific enough, Jesus declared that when men leave their home, they are to "cling to their wife", NOT their lover:

Matthew 19:5

And he said, “Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and shall cleave to his wife and the two of them shall be one flesh.”

The practice of homosexuality goes in contrast to the fact that God represents and cherishes life, something that the practice of homosexuality as well as abortion violate or impugn.

What I see people do often is confuse the sin itself with the punishment for it, which we can all agree should only come from God. Jesus reiterated this fact with the stoning example - since none of us are sinless, it stands to reason that none of us have the right to punish other sinners.

Again, if I am wrong for believing in this very clearly stated logic, then so be it, but that is for God to decide and the teachings of Jesus Christ to dictate, NOT what has been immorally accepted with indifference in modern times.

It is for this very reason that many Christians are now abandoning the Democratic Party for making Gay Marriage part of their official platform. If, in the democratic society of the United States, popular opinion is not well represented by Christian beliefs, then it stands to reason that God and the teaching of Jesus Christ will be eliminated from the country, and will most likely perish under the guise of the abolition of religion from our laws.

Last Edited by Rising Son on 09/25/2012 05:10 AM
"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." - Revelation 21:4

Truth needs no validation because it is self-evident and undeniable. Therefore, anything that requires validation to be realized or justified as truth must contain at least some degree of falsehood.
Anonymous Coward
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09/25/2012 06:04 AM
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Re: Why Christians Believe Homosexuality, And The Democratic Party Is Wrong
I'm not all that fond of fags either, but this is silly.

If Jesus really hated homosexuality, he would have said so, not used a vague term like "sexual immorality", letting the reader fill in the blanks, hint hint, nudge nudge.

He spoke of not fucking around when you're married.
Apocalypse Troll
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09/25/2012 06:05 AM

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Re: Why Christians Believe Homosexuality, And The Democratic Party Is Wrong
What's a buttfer?



Simple, it is for pooping.
attxflag
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[link to www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us]
Rising Son (OP)
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09/25/2012 06:10 AM

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Re: Why Christians Believe Homosexuality, And The Democratic Party Is Wrong
I'm not all that fond of fags either, but this is silly.

If Jesus really hated homosexuality, he would have said so, not used a vague term like "sexual immorality", letting the reader fill in the blanks, hint hint, nudge nudge.

He spoke of not fucking around when you're married.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 300884


Adultery covers infidelity, my friend. Jesus supported this particular tenet of Mosaic law from the Old Testament. Why didn't he mention homosexuality by name? Perhaps they didn't have a word for it back then, or perhaps Jesus' point was lost in translation. This is just what I believe and why I believe it.
"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." - Revelation 21:4

Truth needs no validation because it is self-evident and undeniable. Therefore, anything that requires validation to be realized or justified as truth must contain at least some degree of falsehood.
ANHEDONIC

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09/25/2012 06:26 AM

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Re: Why Christians Believe Homosexuality, And The Democratic Party Is Wrong
Why must you defer to a religious book to determine how YOU should feel about something? Were you not granted your own consciousness and your own free will to make decisions and express original feelings?? Do you think Jesus would have wanted his followers to stop thinking for themselves and to cling to his every word to the extent it interrupts their own free will and freedom of thought? I can't imagine he would have...

Please practice thinking for yourself and outside of the control of any man-made text.

Last Edited by ANHEDONIC on 09/25/2012 06:28 AM

"You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger"
Anonymous Coward
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09/25/2012 06:29 AM
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Re: Why Christians Believe Homosexuality, And The Democratic Party Is Wrong
Ya sold me! cheercheercheercheerbook
Rising Son (OP)
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09/25/2012 06:36 AM

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Re: Why Christians Believe Homosexuality, And The Democratic Party Is Wrong
Why must you defer to a religious book to determine how YOU should feel about something? Were you not granted your own consciousness and your own free will to make decisions and express original feelings?? Do you think Jesus would have wanted his followers to stop thinking for themselves and to cling to his every word to the extent it interrupts their own free will and freedom of thought? I can't imagine he would have...

Please practice thinking for yourself and outside of the control of any man-made text.
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC


I have thought about this rather intensely, and I can see your point when the bible is taken out of context or distorted. However, I am thinking for myself, in that I am connecting multiple points that are laid out in the Old and New Testament that point me to this conclusion.

Outside of that, I am disgusted by the behavior of homosexuals, and my reaction to it is in fact my conscience telling me innately that it is wrong. I believe that homosexuality is not only a sexual perversion, but it also carries with it an aspect of wanton need for attention, as evidenced by the typical behavior of homosexuals to flaunt their sinful ways and demand acceptance. Again, I do not seek homosexuals out to condemn them for what they are doing, but I am willing to express my opinion.

If I am wrong, then God will judge me. However, that is what I believe.

Last Edited by Rising Son on 09/25/2012 06:38 AM
"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." - Revelation 21:4

Truth needs no validation because it is self-evident and undeniable. Therefore, anything that requires validation to be realized or justified as truth must contain at least some degree of falsehood.
Rising Son (OP)
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09/25/2012 06:41 AM

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Re: Why Christians Believe Homosexuality, And The Democratic Party Is Wrong
I'm not all that fond of fags either, but this is silly.

If Jesus really hated homosexuality, he would have said so, not used a vague term like "sexual immorality", letting the reader fill in the blanks, hint hint, nudge nudge.

He spoke of not fucking around when you're married.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 300884


Adultery covers infidelity, my friend, and when you decide to use a derogatory term to label homosexuality, it muddies the discussion and shows your hatred for the person, not the sin they are committing. Jesus supported this particular tenet of Mosaic law from the Old Testament. Why didn't he mention homosexuality by name? Perhaps they didn't have a word for it back then, or perhaps Jesus' point was lost in translation. This is just what I believe and why I believe it.
 Quoting: Rising Son

"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." - Revelation 21:4

Truth needs no validation because it is self-evident and undeniable. Therefore, anything that requires validation to be realized or justified as truth must contain at least some degree of falsehood.
ANHEDONIC

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09/25/2012 07:09 AM

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Re: Why Christians Believe Homosexuality, And The Democratic Party Is Wrong
Why must you defer to a religious book to determine how YOU should feel about something? Were you not granted your own consciousness and your own free will to make decisions and express original feelings?? Do you think Jesus would have wanted his followers to stop thinking for themselves and to cling to his every word to the extent it interrupts their own free will and freedom of thought? I can't imagine he would have...

Please practice thinking for yourself and outside of the control of any man-made text.
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC


I have thought about this rather intensely, and I can see your point when the bible is taken out of context or distorted. However, I am thinking for myself, in that I am connecting multiple points that are laid out in the Old and New Testament that point me to this conclusion.

Outside of that, I am disgusted by the behavior of homosexuals, and my reaction to it is in fact my conscience telling me innately that it is wrong. I believe that homosexuality is not only a sexual perversion, but it also carries with it an aspect of wanton need for attention, as evidenced by the typical behavior of homosexuals to flaunt their sinful ways and demand acceptance. Again, I do not seek homosexuals out to condemn them for what they are doing, but I am willing to express my opinion.

If I am wrong, then God will judge me. However, that is what I believe.
 Quoting: Rising Son


I don't have an issue with varying opinions on this subject matter, but seeing scripture quoted as a justification for how a individual should feel within their own consciousness, that does not sit well with me. Every individual should have the freedom to make up his or her own mind without the pressure to seek conformity to a belief system centered around the opinions of other men.

I have a relative who is a lesbian. She is one of the most kind-hearted, respectful, and compassionate individuals that I have the pleasure of knowing. I'll be damned if I am going to disregard these truly important qualities and judge her on the basis of her sexual preference and what she does behind closed doors in the privacy of her own home with another consenting adult. A person's sexual preference is not important to me, what I care about is the strength of a person's heart and his/her capacity to display integrity.

No Creator that I subscribe to would ever punish an individual for their sexual preference. If 'God' did not want same-sex members of a species interacting with one another in this manner, then 'God' would not have created an animal kingdom whose members display the exact same behavioral tendencies. If the animal kingdom is displaying this same behavior, than that can only tell me that it is not unnatural and not a creation of humans, and therefore must serve some larger function within creation. In my opinion, that 'function' is population control.

I am not a homosexual so I have no personal stake in this discussion. But I know that I will exercise non-judgement and never look down upon a person for something as trivial as their sexual preference when it comes to two consenting adults.

peace

Last Edited by ANHEDONIC on 09/25/2012 07:11 AM

"You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger"
Anonymous Coward
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09/25/2012 07:10 AM
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Re: Why Christians Believe Homosexuality, And The Democratic Party Is Wrong
I'm not all that fond of fags either, but this is silly.

If Jesus really hated homosexuality, he would have said so, not used a vague term like "sexual immorality", letting the reader fill in the blanks, hint hint, nudge nudge.

He spoke of not fucking around when you're married.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 300884


There is no reason for foul and abusive language during any discussion. "For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. These are what make a man unclean;

The Holy Spirit, through Paul's writings, confirms the very same thing as said by Christ Jesus in Matthew. Romans 1:21-22 "For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools"

It is the very heart that becomes hardened and darkened by the love of sin and lust. Therefore, these hearts pour forth evil - evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. Every one of us knows this intuitively - a person whose heart covets may steal, a person who has no compassion for life may murder. A person with anger and rage in his heart acts maliciously and vents his rage in violence. A person's heart which is consumed with sexual lust will commit adultery, or go to gay bathhouses for anonymous sex, or molest women and kids - all to fulfill the LUST. 

What happens when men and women start denying their very own Creator and start worshipping created things? God gives them over to their lusts. It CONSUMES THEM. Serial killers go on killing sprees, homosexual men have 500-1000 partners because the lust CONSUMES them, porn addicts begin to spend every waking hour masturbating to porn etc etc etc.

"Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen."

"Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion."

"Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them." Romans 1:24-32

That last line of scripture is telling. Rampant homosexuality in a society is an indication to all of us that God has given them over to depraved minds. That IT IS NOT ENOUGH to simply do the deed behind closed doors, but they go out and APPROVE of those who PRACTICE THE SAME BEHAVIOUR. This necessarily means that they CONDEMN those who do not. What do we see today? Schools being forced to indoctrinate our youngsters that homosexuality is "normal and healthy", laws trying to be passed that prevent adults from seeking professional help for their children who want to sodomise each other, and blanket condemnation that God's commands are hatred. Even many atheists do not condone sodomy and can sense the FASCISM behind the homosexual agenda. This never has been about equal rights but rather about being able to rid society of the ONE thing which reminds them everyday that they are doing wickedly in God's eyes - the true gospel. They constantly preach from their pulpit that Christians judge them when in actuality, they themselves are already under judgement. We know a movement is fascist when the population are being forced to acknowledge that sodomy is normal by the very bullies that lust after it. 
Rising Son (OP)
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09/25/2012 07:30 AM

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Re: Why Christians Believe Homosexuality, And The Democratic Party Is Wrong
Why must you defer to a religious book to determine how YOU should feel about something? Were you not granted your own consciousness and your own free will to make decisions and express original feelings?? Do you think Jesus would have wanted his followers to stop thinking for themselves and to cling to his every word to the extent it interrupts their own free will and freedom of thought? I can't imagine he would have...

Please practice thinking for yourself and outside of the control of any man-made text.
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC


I have thought about this rather intensely, and I can see your point when the bible is taken out of context or distorted. However, I am thinking for myself, in that I am connecting multiple points that are laid out in the Old and New Testament that point me to this conclusion.

Outside of that, I am disgusted by the behavior of homosexuals, and my reaction to it is in fact my conscience telling me innately that it is wrong. I believe that homosexuality is not only a sexual perversion, but it also carries with it an aspect of wanton need for attention, as evidenced by the typical behavior of homosexuals to flaunt their sinful ways and demand acceptance. Again, I do not seek homosexuals out to condemn them for what they are doing, but I am willing to express my opinion.

If I am wrong, then God will judge me. However, that is what I believe.
 Quoting: Rising Son


I don't have an issue with varying opinions on this subject matter, but seeing scripture quoted as a justification for how a individual should feel within their own consciousness, that does not sit well with me. Every individual should have the freedom to make up his or her own mind without the pressure to seek conformity to a belief system centered around the opinions of other men.

I have a relative who is a lesbian. She is one of the most kind-hearted, respectful, and compassionate individuals that I have the pleasure of knowing. I'll be damned if I am going to disregard these truly important qualities and judge her on the basis of her sexual preference and what she does behind closed doors in the privacy of her own home with another consenting adult. A person's sexual preference is not important to me, what I care about is the strength of a person's heart and his/her capacity to display integrity.

No Creator that I subscribe to would ever punish an individual for their sexual preference. If 'God' did not want same-sex members of a species interacting with one another in this manner, then 'God' would not have created an animal kingdom whose members display the exact same behavioral tendencies. If the animal kingdom is displaying this same behavior, than that can only tell me that it is not unnatural and not a creation of humans, and therefore must serve some larger function within creation. In my opinion, that 'function' is population control.

I am not a homosexual so I have no personal stake in this discussion. But I know that I will exercise non-judgement and never look down upon a person for something as trivial as their sexual preference when it comes to two consenting adults.

peace
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC


I respect your opinion, but above that, I respect your view on love and the dangers of judging others. I am humbled by your civility in discussing it, especially when my views call into question a member of your family whom you love. I am impressed and receptive to your loving spirit, and I can see your point.

I believe that with anything, there are varying degrees of comparison, in that most things fall somewhere within the spectrum of good and evil. Very rarely do we witness extremes of goodness and evil in our world.

The benevolent nature of your relative is proof of this, in that it is unfair to label or stereotype an entire group of people for the actions of some. However, your relative does happen to be an exception to the norm, rather than the norm itself.

It is for this reason that I truly believe this behavior is wrong, if not for any other reason, the depths of selfishness and hatred that it leads people to when it is practiced, although this is not all inclusive as your relative is proof of.

I don't pretend to know all the answers, and like you, I am trying my best to navigate through this world the best way I know how, as much according to what I think God wants me to do as I can. I do believe that the underlying and common denominator that all people can agree on is that with God, there is love. Thank you for proving that to me once again :-)
"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." - Revelation 21:4

Truth needs no validation because it is self-evident and undeniable. Therefore, anything that requires validation to be realized or justified as truth must contain at least some degree of falsehood.
Anonymous Coward
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09/25/2012 07:33 AM
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Re: Why Christians Believe Homosexuality, And The Democratic Party Is Wrong
Aint just christians.
maryjane of earth
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09/25/2012 07:40 AM
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Re: Why Christians Believe Homosexuality, And The Democratic Party Is Wrong
Because the day they rejected the catholic religion, they became children of Satan. So instead of praying for peace, they hate everything that it is not their way.
Anonymous Coward
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09/25/2012 07:55 AM
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Re: Why Christians Believe Homosexuality, And The Democratic Party Is Wrong
Why must you defer to a religious book to determine how YOU should feel about something? Were you not granted your own consciousness and your own free will to make decisions and express original feelings?? Do you think Jesus would have wanted his followers to stop thinking for themselves and to cling to his every word to the extent it interrupts their own free will and freedom of thought? I can't imagine he would have...

Please practice thinking for yourself and outside of the control of any man-made text.
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC


That would imply that our logic and reasoning is greater than the Creator, which it is not. Every word of God's scripture flowed from His Holy Spirit, so absolutely yes, Jesus commanded this.

"Dear friend, do not imitate what is evil but what is good. Anyone who does what is good is from God. Anyone who does what is evil has not seen God."

I'll give you a secular argument as to why we obey Him rather than men.
Abortion. Thou Shalt Not Murder. If I had the option to take the 4,000 women having abortions today into a separate room, and showed them an alter with a baby on it, and told them that if they killed the baby the "gods of money" and the "gods who granted an easier life" would be willing to fulfill her wishes, what do you think would happen? They would be horrified because it would drive home the hypocrisy within their own heart - that they still believe in Thou Shalt Not Murder but that someone has been able to convince her that the life within her womb is no longer a baby.

A shocking example, but one worth giving. What my example shows is that without Him defining GOOD, man is subject to Satan's age which defines "good as evil and evil as good". Your Creator's definition of good has never changed. But man without His definition continually redefines good, even to the point of not being able to recognise the reemergence of an evil such as child sacrifice. A population becomes blind and subject to evil, with their reasoning skills severely disabled. It's our reasoning and logic that leads us astray, that convinces us that abortion isn't murder. Your new ethics then come from the society around you, from your leaders etc. Society, without God's definition of good, slowly but surely convinces man that Thou Shalt Not Murder doesn't really apply to unborn babies, or the elderly, or perhaps the disabled, or perhaps the "undesirables". This is exactly what is happening in our world today because many not only shun His Words for us, but because we truly think that we KNOW BETTER THAN OUR CREATOR.
maryjane of earth
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09/25/2012 08:00 AM
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Re: Why Christians Believe Homosexuality, And The Democratic Party Is Wrong
Why must you defer to a religious book to determine how YOU should feel about something? Were you not granted your own consciousness and your own free will to make decisions and express original feelings?? Do you think Jesus would have wanted his followers to stop thinking for themselves and to cling to his every word to the extent it interrupts their own free will and freedom of thought? I can't imagine he would have...

Please practice thinking for yourself and outside of the control of any man-made text.
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC


That would imply that our logic and reasoning is greater than the Creator, which it is not. Every word of God's scripture flowed from His Holy Spirit, so absolutely yes, Jesus commanded this.

"Dear friend, do not imitate what is evil but what is good. Anyone who does what is good is from God. Anyone who does what is evil has not seen God."

I'll give you a secular argument as to why we obey Him rather than men.
Abortion. Thou Shalt Not Murder. If I had the option to take the 4,000 women having abortions today into a separate room, and showed them an alter with a baby on it, and told them that if they killed the baby the "gods of money" and the "gods who granted an easier life" would be willing to fulfill her wishes, what do you think would happen? They would be horrified because it would drive home the hypocrisy within their own heart - that they still believe in Thou Shalt Not Murder but that someone has been able to convince her that the life within her womb is no longer a baby.

A shocking example, but one worth giving. What my example shows is that without Him defining GOOD, man is subject to Satan's age which defines "good as evil and evil as good". Your Creator's definition of good has never changed. But man without His definition continually redefines good, even to the point of not being able to recognise the reemergence of an evil such as child sacrifice. A population becomes blind and subject to evil, with their reasoning skills severely disabled. It's our reasoning and logic that leads us astray, that convinces us that abortion isn't murder. Your new ethics then come from the society around you, from your leaders etc. Society, without God's definition of good, slowly but surely convinces man that Thou Shalt Not Murder doesn't really apply to unborn babies, or the elderly, or perhaps the disabled, or perhaps the "undesirables". This is exactly what is happening in our world today because many not only shun His Words for us, but because we truly think that we KNOW BETTER THAN OUR CREATOR.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22506045


See, you talk about abortion but none about war. Witch is worse??? Killing a fetus or killing man, woman with children or a pregnant women???
Rising Son (OP)
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09/25/2012 08:02 AM

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Re: Why Christians Believe Homosexuality, And The Democratic Party Is Wrong
Why must you defer to a religious book to determine how YOU should feel about something? Were you not granted your own consciousness and your own free will to make decisions and express original feelings?? Do you think Jesus would have wanted his followers to stop thinking for themselves and to cling to his every word to the extent it interrupts their own free will and freedom of thought? I can't imagine he would have...

Please practice thinking for yourself and outside of the control of any man-made text.
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC


That would imply that our logic and reasoning is greater than the Creator, which it is not. Every word of God's scripture flowed from His Holy Spirit, so absolutely yes, Jesus commanded this.

"Dear friend, do not imitate what is evil but what is good. Anyone who does what is good is from God. Anyone who does what is evil has not seen God."

I'll give you a secular argument as to why we obey Him rather than men.
Abortion. Thou Shalt Not Murder. If I had the option to take the 4,000 women having abortions today into a separate room, and showed them an alter with a baby on it, and told them that if they killed the baby the "gods of money" and the "gods who granted an easier life" would be willing to fulfill her wishes, what do you think would happen? They would be horrified because it would drive home the hypocrisy within their own heart - that they still believe in Thou Shalt Not Murder but that someone has been able to convince her that the life within her womb is no longer a baby.

A shocking example, but one worth giving. What my example shows is that without Him defining GOOD, man is subject to Satan's age which defines "good as evil and evil as good". Your Creator's definition of good has never changed. But man without His definition continually redefines good, even to the point of not being able to recognise the reemergence of an evil such as child sacrifice. A population becomes blind and subject to evil, with their reasoning skills severely disabled. It's our reasoning and logic that leads us astray, that convinces us that abortion isn't murder. Your new ethics then come from the society around you, from your leaders etc. Society, without God's definition of good, slowly but surely convinces man that Thou Shalt Not Murder doesn't really apply to unborn babies, or the elderly, or perhaps the disabled, or perhaps the "undesirables". This is exactly what is happening in our world today because many not only shun His Words for us, but because we truly think that we KNOW BETTER THAN OUR CREATOR.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22506045


Well said my friend, I whole heartily agree. I believe that the sin of arrogance is as much to blame for this as anything, causing people to think they know better than God. It is difficult to point out the contradictions without falling into the same trap, so we must constantly remind ourselves to be humble. Thank you for sharing your God given intellect :-)
"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." - Revelation 21:4

Truth needs no validation because it is self-evident and undeniable. Therefore, anything that requires validation to be realized or justified as truth must contain at least some degree of falsehood.
Rising Son (OP)
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09/25/2012 08:07 AM

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Re: Why Christians Believe Homosexuality, And The Democratic Party Is Wrong
Why must you defer to a religious book to determine how YOU should feel about something? Were you not granted your own consciousness and your own free will to make decisions and express original feelings?? Do you think Jesus would have wanted his followers to stop thinking for themselves and to cling to his every word to the extent it interrupts their own free will and freedom of thought? I can't imagine he would have...

Please practice thinking for yourself and outside of the control of any man-made text.
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC


That would imply that our logic and reasoning is greater than the Creator, which it is not. Every word of God's scripture flowed from His Holy Spirit, so absolutely yes, Jesus commanded this.

"Dear friend, do not imitate what is evil but what is good. Anyone who does what is good is from God. Anyone who does what is evil has not seen God."

I'll give you a secular argument as to why we obey Him rather than men.
Abortion. Thou Shalt Not Murder. If I had the option to take the 4,000 women having abortions today into a separate room, and showed them an alter with a baby on it, and told them that if they killed the baby the "gods of money" and the "gods who granted an easier life" would be willing to fulfill her wishes, what do you think would happen? They would be horrified because it would drive home the hypocrisy within their own heart - that they still believe in Thou Shalt Not Murder but that someone has been able to convince her that the life within her womb is no longer a baby.

A shocking example, but one worth giving. What my example shows is that without Him defining GOOD, man is subject to Satan's age which defines "good as evil and evil as good". Your Creator's definition of good has never changed. But man without His definition continually redefines good, even to the point of not being able to recognise the reemergence of an evil such as child sacrifice. A population becomes blind and subject to evil, with their reasoning skills severely disabled. It's our reasoning and logic that leads us astray, that convinces us that abortion isn't murder. Your new ethics then come from the society around you, from your leaders etc. Society, without God's definition of good, slowly but surely convinces man that Thou Shalt Not Murder doesn't really apply to unborn babies, or the elderly, or perhaps the disabled, or perhaps the "undesirables". This is exactly what is happening in our world today because many not only shun His Words for us, but because we truly think that we KNOW BETTER THAN OUR CREATOR.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22506045


See, you talk about abortion but none about war. Witch is worse??? Killing a fetus or killing man, woman with children or a pregnant women???
 Quoting: maryjane of earth 1028241


War is an ugly thing, but the indifference of good people to do nothing for the suffering of innocents is far more ugly. If I had the choice to stand by or become involved while innocent people are being hurt or killed, knowing I had the power within me to stop it, I believe it is mandated by God to intervene. This is not to say that killing must be the default response in war, and that is why there is an escalation of force within most modern countries' rules of engagement.
"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." - Revelation 21:4

Truth needs no validation because it is self-evident and undeniable. Therefore, anything that requires validation to be realized or justified as truth must contain at least some degree of falsehood.
Anonymous Coward
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09/25/2012 08:08 AM
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Re: Why Christians Believe Homosexuality, And The Democratic Party Is Wrong
This is what I believe the Good News of the Gospel can be shared with some one not inside a church or apart of it.

But the Church doctrine laid out for the Church members behavior is indeed for those joined to the Church as members of the body of the Chruch.

Those who have voluntarily joined the Church as active members.

There is no grounds to go out side the Church and rant upon non Church members about their behavior. Nor to judge their behavior when they are rejecting the way of the Church they do not want it and that is their choice.

This removes the coming and joining and believing and replaces it with pushing people even harassing them...who do not want to go that way.

We have to accept them as they are in their way as they are and keep in mind the Church is in the world but separated from it.

Many people live long lives and their lives are changing continually daily every day is a different day. When time passes the same people that were not apart of Christ may actually be apart.

But it is hard to want to when they are feeling condescended upon. I can understand how they feel and it would turn them against the body of Christ.

When if people would follow the rules of the Church and give those who are not even accepting of the Gospel not the meat of the church they can not even accept with out Christ in them...

So this sexual problem the Church has needs to be something they keep in mind it is their view.

But it is not the entire every individual of the whole worlds view.

The democratic party is a political thing it is remote to me....I see men and women I do not see political party or politics in such a way as any other than what it is law and order....governing the nation.

This is not Church adjoined but social life and way of life.

If the simplicity of Christ is not wanted why in the world would nay want the Doctrine of the Church?

They do not even want Christ and they can not do anything at all with out Christ in them not even understand or accept the knowledge of God and Christ.

None of us can do anything of our selves only Christ in us is any thing done through us and that by Him.

Not us.

No need in giving people a reason to pick on others and single them out for a sin or wrong. When we know plainly all men have sinned not one can say they have no sin in them.

We need to make sure we give no reason for the evil to hurt another we should cover and protect them from harm.

And pray for their betterment.
Anonymous Coward
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09/25/2012 08:10 AM
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Re: Why Christians Believe Homosexuality, And The Democratic Party Is Wrong
Is like this for only when men is with women does he bear fruit?

[link to ldmart315.edublogs.org]
Keep2theCode

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09/25/2012 08:14 AM
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Re: Why Christians Believe Homosexuality, And The Democratic Party Is Wrong
I don't have an issue with varying opinions on this subject matter, but seeing scripture quoted as a justification for how a individual should feel within their own consciousness, that does not sit well with me. Every individual should have the freedom to make up his or her own mind without the pressure to seek conformity to a belief system centered around the opinions of other men.

I have a relative who is a lesbian. She is one of the most kind-hearted, respectful, and compassionate individuals that I have the pleasure of knowing. I'll be damned if I am going to disregard these truly important qualities and judge her on the basis of her sexual preference and what she does behind closed doors in the privacy of her own home with another consenting adult. A person's sexual preference is not important to me, what I care about is the strength of a person's heart and his/her capacity to display integrity.

No Creator that I subscribe to would ever punish an individual for their sexual preference. If 'God' did not want same-sex members of a species interacting with one another in this manner, then 'God' would not have created an animal kingdom whose members display the exact same behavioral tendencies. If the animal kingdom is displaying this same behavior, than that can only tell me that it is not unnatural and not a creation of humans, and therefore must serve some larger function within creation. In my opinion, that 'function' is population control.

I am not a homosexual so I have no personal stake in this discussion. But I know that I will exercise non-judgement and never look down upon a person for something as trivial as their sexual preference when it comes to two consenting adults.

peace
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC


Let me put in my two cents, and please understand that I break things down this way because I'm naturally analytical, not because I'm upset or angry.

1st paragraph: Quoting scripture to back up a Christian viewpoint is logical. This is about sin, and sin is something only God can define. If God had said that it's a sin to gargle peanut butter while standing on your head on a Tuesday, it would be sin. If God can't make the rules, then there's no point in calling him God. So "making up our own mind" is fine in the proper sphere. I dare say that no one is exempt from this either; even atheists fall prey to groupthink and peer pressure, preferring acceptance over true "free thinking". So the "think for yourself" argument is not only failing to consider the point of debate, but also excluding the fact that nobody in the world ever does this perfectly.

2nd paragraph: I too have a relative who is a lesbian, and she's also a pagan. It grieves me to no end, as I've known her since the day she was born, and she's had a hard life. But were her "issue" alcoholism, or fits of rage, or stealing, or lying to get other people in trouble, should I just accept her "lifestyle" and "preferences"? Why not? You might say that sexual preference does no harm, but technically neither do many other things "done in the privacy of their homes". And speaking of that, I demand that homosexuals get out of our living rooms, city streets, and schools before I'll listen to them demanding that I get out of their bedrooms. They don't just want tolerance or acceptance, they want affirmation and endorsement just for their sexuality. This is nothing like racism or even sexism, since the latter still has nothing to do with sexuality but strictly with genetics.

3rd paragraph: God can't punish sin? Then who do you think you are? He can't punish murder or deception or theft either, by your argument. After all, animals do all of those things. You can say it's for survival, but there are many observations of animals killing other animals, even their own kind, for reasons that seem to have nothing to do with survival. And since they can be quite cold and brutal, by your argument then so should people be allowed to be those things. But God made people different from all other creatures; they are made in his image, sentient beings who can choose whether or not to defy their own creator. More importantly, this is NOT about sexual preference but about rebellion; it's vital to grasp this distinction. And if we think it's right to tell alcoholics not to indulge in what they are, as many scientists believe, naturally inclined to do, then by what right do you say the rules are changed if the topic is sexuality? You're not being consistent.

4th paragraph: Though you are not an alcoholic, do you look down on them for having no self-control or self-respect, even if they do no one else any harm? Alcoholism has long been held to be a character flaw, an escape and crutch for the weak-minded, and still is in spite of research showing a genetic propensity (which is still lacking for homosexuality, BTW). We tell alcoholics to get help, to stay out of places where alcohol is served, and to take responsibility for sobering up. So why not the same for homosexuality, when there are (honest) stats showing higher incidences of violence against their partners, sexually-transmitted diseases, etc.? And as many of us knew in spite of cries about "slippery slope fallacy", now there is a push to accept and affirm pedophilia and bestiality. The gay activists themselves have at times admitted that they always intended to get more than mere acceptance of their own deviancy. "Consent" is easily obtained from minors who were threatened or lied to or promised rewards, and if an animal seems "willing", they can easily call that "consent". So I don't buy the argument that homosexuality would never lead to these other things and that it's only about a faithful partnership.

Sure, there are things heteros do that disgust me, their marriages break up, and they often make lousy parents. But we don't condone any of that; not even atheists condone any of that. Why? Because these are character flaws, consent or not, harm or not. And if Christians can't ask their own God what is sin and what isn't, then it isn't Christians who have a problem with ramming their personal views down other people's throats.

Last Edited by Keep2theCode on 09/25/2012 08:17 AM
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward
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09/25/2012 08:14 AM
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Re: Why Christians Believe Homosexuality, And The Democratic Party Is Wrong
Why must you defer to a religious book to determine how YOU should feel about something? Were you not granted your own consciousness and your own free will to make decisions and express original feelings?? Do you think Jesus would have wanted his followers to stop thinking for themselves and to cling to his every word to the extent it interrupts their own free will and freedom of thought? I can't imagine he would have...

Please practice thinking for yourself and outside of the control of any man-made text.
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC


No one in their right mind would want someone/anyone following them around, and doing what they do/did.

Lucky for me, you and Jebus, humans are too arrogant to give a fuck about what anyone else says/does.

The whole christiannity thing is BS. Christians dont treat others with respect. They are the worst people in the world, but pretend to be otherwise.
Keep2theCode

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09/25/2012 08:20 AM
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Re: Why Christians Believe Homosexuality, And The Democratic Party Is Wrong
No one in their right mind would want someone/anyone following them around, and doing what they do/did.

Lucky for me, you and Jebus, humans are too arrogant to give a fuck about what anyone else says/does.

The whole christiannity thing is BS. Christians dont treat others with respect. They are the worst people in the world, but pretend to be otherwise.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9204251


Pot, meet kettle. Yeah, look at how respectful YOU are, to either Christians or God. Anybody who says "jebus" is only looking for a fight and for attention, and you'll get neither from me from this point on.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Reader.

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09/25/2012 10:03 AM

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Re: Why Christians Believe Homosexuality, And The Democratic Party Is Wrong
This is what I believe, and what a majority of my fellow Christians believe. If I am wrong, then so be it, but that is for God to decide:

The bible can be interpreted multiple ways, and when you consider the many translations and languages that helped to compose it, that is understandable. However, when you consider all of the laws of the Old Testament, you must compare those with the popular belief structure of the time when the book they were contained in was written, so it follows that they were interpreted that way by the humans who wrote about them.

When you further consider ALL of the laws of the Old Testament, then compare them in relation to the message that Jesus gave us, it is easy to delineate and clearly define which laws were distorted by the biases of the time.

What many fail to see, however, is that Jesus did in fact uphold the law against homosexuality when he specifically mentioned "sexual immorality" in the books of Matthew and Mark:

Matthew 15:18-20

18 But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man unclean. 19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. 20 These are what make a man unclean; but eating with unwashed hands does not make him unclean.

Mark 7:20-23

20 He went on: “What comes out of a man is what makes him unclean. 21 For from within, out of men’s hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, 22 greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. 23 All these evils come from inside and make a man unclean.

If that wasn't specific enough, Jesus declared that when men leave their home, they are to "cling to their wife", NOT their lover:

Matthew 19:5

And he said, “Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and shall cleave to his wife and the two of them shall be one flesh.”

The practice of homosexuality goes in contrast to the fact that God represents and cherishes life, something that the practice of homosexuality as well as abortion violate or impugn.

What I see people do often is confuse the sin itself with the punishment for it, which we can all agree should only come from God. Jesus reiterated this fact with the stoning example - since none of us are sinless, it stands to reason that none of us have the right to punish other sinners.

Again, if I am wrong for believing in this very clearly stated logic, then so be it, but that is for God to decide and the teachings of Jesus Christ to dictate, NOT what has been immorally accepted with indifference in modern times.

It is for this very reason that many Christians are now abandoning the Democratic Party for making Gay Marriage part of their official platform. If, in the democratic society of the United States, popular opinion is not well represented by Christian beliefs, then it stands to reason that God and the teaching of Jesus Christ will be eliminated from the country, and will most likely perish under the guise of the abolition of religion from our laws.
 Quoting: Rising Son


clappa
Fred
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09/25/2012 10:30 AM
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Re: Why Christians Believe Homosexuality, And The Democratic Party Is Wrong
Not all Christians are extremist hypocrits.
WretchedHollywood

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09/25/2012 12:47 PM
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Re: Why Christians Believe Homosexuality, And The Democratic Party Is Wrong
Why must you defer to a religious book to determine how YOU should feel about something? Were you not granted your own consciousness and your own free will to make decisions and express original feelings?? Do you think Jesus would have wanted his followers to stop thinking for themselves and to cling to his every word to the extent it interrupts their own free will and freedom of thought? I can't imagine he would have...

Please practice thinking for yourself and outside of the control of any man-made text.
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC


I have thought about this rather intensely, and I can see your point when the bible is taken out of context or distorted. However, I am thinking for myself, in that I am connecting multiple points that are laid out in the Old and New Testament that point me to this conclusion.

Outside of that, I am disgusted by the behavior of homosexuals, and my reaction to it is in fact my conscience telling me innately that it is wrong. I believe that homosexuality is not only a sexual perversion, but it also carries with it an aspect of wanton need for attention, as evidenced by the typical behavior of homosexuals to flaunt their sinful ways and demand acceptance. Again, I do not seek homosexuals out to condemn them for what they are doing, but I am willing to express my opinion.

If I am wrong, then God will judge me. However, that is what I believe.
 Quoting: Rising Son


I don't have an issue with varying opinions on this subject matter, but seeing scripture quoted as a justification for how a individual should feel within their own consciousness, that does not sit well with me. Every individual should have the freedom to make up his or her own mind without the pressure to seek conformity to a belief system centered around the opinions of other men.

I have a relative who is a lesbian. She is one of the most kind-hearted, respectful, and compassionate individuals that I have the pleasure of knowing. I'll be damned if I am going to disregard these truly important qualities and judge her on the basis of her sexual preference and what she does behind closed doors in the privacy of her own home with another consenting adult. A person's sexual preference is not important to me, what I care about is the strength of a person's heart and his/her capacity to display integrity.

No Creator that I subscribe to would ever punish an individual for their sexual preference. If 'God' did not want same-sex members of a species interacting with one another in this manner, then 'God' would not have created an animal kingdom whose members display the exact same behavioral tendencies. If the animal kingdom is displaying this same behavior, than that can only tell me that it is not unnatural and not a creation of humans, and therefore must serve some larger function within creation. In my opinion, that 'function' is population control.

I am not a homosexual so I have no personal stake in this discussion. But I know that I will exercise non-judgement and never look down upon a person for something as trivial as their sexual preference when it comes to two consenting adults.

peace
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC


times a thousand, this ^^
well said
"doesn't it make you feel better?"
Anonymous Coward
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09/25/2012 01:05 PM
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Re: Why Christians Believe Homosexuality, And The Democratic Party Is Wrong
Birds and Bees here folks.


Male sticks penis inside female vagina and ejaculates, creates life.

Male sticks penis inside male/female anus and ejaculates, creates disease.

We are not asexual beings, but there are genetic abnormalities that cause abnormal sexual behavior. (homosexual, pedophilia, necrophilia, and other minor fetishes)

Gay behavior is abnormal.

When genetic causation is established and the gay gene identified, the problem will go away - because mothers and fathers want grandchildren, and they will abort gay babies with the abnormal gene that causes gay behavior.

Someday we will see everything through the eyes of logic.

In the meantime, let Steve and Bobbie play house. As long as they are plugging their partners butts they will not pass the abnormal gene to a new generation.
Anonymous Coward
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09/25/2012 01:38 PM
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Re: Why Christians Believe Homosexuality, And The Democratic Party Is Wrong
Why must you defer to a religious book to determine how YOU should feel about something? Were you not granted your own consciousness and your own free will to make decisions and express original feelings?? Do you think Jesus would have wanted his followers to stop thinking for themselves and to cling to his every word to the extent it interrupts their own free will and freedom of thought? I can't imagine he would have...

Please practice thinking for yourself and outside of the control of any man-made text.
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC


Because that book was written by people inspired by the spirit of God and his son Jesus Christ. If they tell me that blueberries taste bad, then blueberries taste bad! If they tell me how to get into heaven, then that's what I will do. He gave people free will NOT so we can use it, but to test our resolve in following His word. If he created a bunch of mindless, thoughtless, untemptable beings where would the challenge be in living up to His standards? You anti-religious people are such sheep; allowing Satan to use the only advantage God gave him (free will) to lure you into his palace of fire and brimstone!
Anonymous Coward
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09/25/2012 01:40 PM
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Re: Why Christians Believe Homosexuality, And The Democratic Party Is Wrong
This is what I believe, and what a majority of my fellow Christians believe. If I am wrong, then so be it, but that is for God to decide:

The bible can be interpreted multiple ways, and when you consider the many translations and languages that helped to compose it, that is understandable. However, when you consider all of the laws of the Old Testament, you must compare those with the popular belief structure of the time when the book they were contained in was written, so it follows that they were interpreted that way by the humans who wrote about them.

When you further consider ALL of the laws of the Old Testament, then compare them in relation to the message that Jesus gave us, it is easy to delineate and clearly define which laws were distorted by the biases of the time.

What many fail to see, however, is that Jesus did in fact uphold the law against homosexuality when he specifically mentioned "sexual immorality" in the books of Matthew and Mark:

Matthew 15:18-20

18 But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man unclean. 19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. 20 These are what make a man unclean; but eating with unwashed hands does not make him unclean.

Mark 7:20-23

20 He went on: “What comes out of a man is what makes him unclean. 21 For from within, out of men’s hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, 22 greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. 23 All these evils come from inside and make a man unclean.

If that wasn't specific enough, Jesus declared that when men leave their home, they are to "cling to their wife", NOT their lover:

Matthew 19:5

And he said, “Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and shall cleave to his wife and the two of them shall be one flesh.”

The practice of homosexuality goes in contrast to the fact that God represents and cherishes life, something that the practice of homosexuality as well as abortion violate or impugn.

What I see people do often is confuse the sin itself with the punishment for it, which we can all agree should only come from God. Jesus reiterated this fact with the stoning example - since none of us are sinless, it stands to reason that none of us have the right to punish other sinners.

Again, if I am wrong for believing in this very clearly stated logic, then so be it, but that is for God to decide and the teachings of Jesus Christ to dictate, NOT what has been immorally accepted with indifference in modern times.

It is for this very reason that many Christians are now abandoning the Democratic Party for making Gay Marriage part of their official platform. If, in the democratic society of the United States, popular opinion is not well represented by Christian beliefs, then it stands to reason that God and the teaching of Jesus Christ will be eliminated from the country, and will most likely perish under the guise of the abolition of religion from our laws.
 Quoting: Rising Son



You people waste so much precious time judging others you have no time to do anything good for the world.
Keep2theCode

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09/25/2012 01:43 PM
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Re: Why Christians Believe Homosexuality, And The Democratic Party Is Wrong
You people waste so much precious time judging others you have no time to do anything good for the world.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24223924


... he said, judging "you people".

You also seem to think that people can only do one thing at a time. tounge
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
ANHEDONIC

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09/25/2012 03:11 PM

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Re: Why Christians Believe Homosexuality, And The Democratic Party Is Wrong
Why must you defer to a religious book to determine how YOU should feel about something? Were you not granted your own consciousness and your own free will to make decisions and express original feelings?? Do you think Jesus would have wanted his followers to stop thinking for themselves and to cling to his every word to the extent it interrupts their own free will and freedom of thought? I can't imagine he would have...

Please practice thinking for yourself and outside of the control of any man-made text.
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC


Because that book was written by people inspired by the spirit of God and his son Jesus Christ. If they tell me that blueberries taste bad, then blueberries taste bad! If they tell me how to get into heaven, then that's what I will do. He gave people free will NOT so we can use it, but to test our resolve in following His word. If he created a bunch of mindless, thoughtless, untemptable beings where would the challenge be in living up to His standards? You anti-religious people are such sheep; allowing Satan to use the only advantage God gave him (free will) to lure you into his palace of fire and brimstone!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23420356


Here's the pot calling the kettle black.

chuckle

"You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger"
Bowyn Aerrow

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09/25/2012 03:42 PM
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Re: Why Christians Believe Homosexuality, And The Democratic Party Is Wrong
I find it odd that its is the majority of "anti-gays" who go around talking about homosexuality than the gays do.

Why is it that people like you have to worry and think about what the gays are doing all the time?

My brother was gay, yet I didn't learn what it is that gays do (in bed) from him, I learned it from the opinions and rants of anti-gay people who fixate on penises and anuses.

He never actually discussed what he does in the privacy of his bedroom, no more than my discussing what I do with my wife.

Why is there such a terrible preoccupation about the 'sin' of homosexuals when we are all all sinners?

Why is it that you can clearly see the splinter in the eye of your fellow man and fixate on that when the beam in your own eye should be your focus?

I find it odd that Jesus spoke of cleaving unto woman, but failed himself to follow that edict. He didn't marry.

Which if you understood Greek and Hebrew and the cultures of that time, marriage was a huge deal, the typical age of marriages was between 14-20. A 30 something year old man without a wife was unheard of, and a thing that people talked about much like you talk about homosexuals...
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